Items Restaurants Hose Patrons With
Ciccio
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/05/22/BULP1JIC5F.DTL
Summary...
Markups to cost:
Wine by the glass: Up to 5 times
Mixed green salad: Up to 8 times
Fountain soda: 20 times
Eggs: 5 times
Pizza: Up to 8 times
Some pastas: 6 to 10 times
Once in awhile, I find a pizza, because of the effort involved and if
its good quality, may be worth it. I am sucker for a good Caesar salad
made from scratch table-side. I order eggs for breakfast when I'm out
of town. Otherwise, I rarely order the above items when eating out.
Bargains:
Steak: Restaurants break even or lose
Seafood: Break even or lose
I have found that steak prices, other than at "steak houses," to be
fairly decent.
Ciccio
Peter Lawrence
Yes, there's some high margins out there, but I don't begrudge restaurants
for the high margins on some items. Since overall, the restaurant business
is often times a hard business to sustain a profit.
People who are concerned if they're getting a good deal when ordering a
particular item vs another (in regards to the restaurant's markup for that
item) really ought not to eat out, and just enjoy the best bargain in dining
by eating at home.
I, myself, do take price in consideration when ordering food, but not the
price that it costs the restaurant to prepare my dish, but instead just the
price I pay versus the amount of enjoyment I think I will receive in
consuming that dish.
- Peter
spamtrap1888
> "Restaurant markups deconstructed."http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/05/22/BULP1JIC5...
>
> Summary...
>
> Markups to cost:
> Pizza: Up to 8 times
> Some pastas: 6 to 10 times
>
> Once in awhile, I find a pizza, because of the effort involved and if
> its good quality, may be worth it.
>
> Bargains:
> Steak: Restaurants break even or lose
> Seafood: Break even or lose
>
> I have found that steak prices, other than at "steak houses," to be
> fairly decent.
>
To validate this: In college I delivered pizza a few times for a
combination sit-down restaurant/delivery joint. The drivers were
allowed to eat as much pizza and meatball subs as they wanted (low
cost food), while they had to pay full price if they wanted steak
(high cost food). (The kitchen would make pizza for the staff every
half-hour or so.)
Patti Beadles
to the restaurant's cost of goods. I couldn't care less what the
wholesale cost of the food is, so long as I feel that the full
experience of dining out is worth the price that I paid for it.
I fully expect that the vast majority of my dining dollars cover
the cost of skillful preparation and presentation.
I really don't understand why someone would want to bean-count their
restaurant check in this way. Doing so would significantly decrease
my enjoyment of the meal.
-Patti
--
Patti Beadles, Oakland, CA |
pattib~pattib.org | All religions are equally
http://www.pattib.org/ | ludicrous, and should be ridiculed
http://stopshootingauto.com | as often as possible. C. Bond
Peter Lawrence
>
> The value that I receive for a meal bears no relationship whatsoever
> to the restaurant's cost of goods. I couldn't care less what the
> wholesale cost of the food is, so long as I feel that the full
> experience of dining out is worth the price that I paid for it.
> I fully expect that the vast majority of my dining dollars cover
> the cost of skillful preparation and presentation.
>
> I really don't understand why someone would want to bean-count their
> restaurant check in this way. Doing so would significantly decrease
> my enjoyment of the meal.
>
> -Patti
+1
Todd Michel McComb
Peter Lawrence <humm...@aol.com> wrote:
>I, myself, do take price in consideration when ordering food, but
>not the price that it costs the restaurant to prepare my dish, but
>instead just the price I pay versus the amount of enjoyment I think
>I will receive in consuming that dish.
Yes. It would seem crazy to me to order steak or seafood, which I
typically don't enjoy, instead of something I actually like.
Ciccio
> I really don't understand why someone would want to bean-count their
> restaurant check in this way. Doing so would significantly decrease
> my enjoyment of the meal.
Forget bean counting. Sometimes it's sticker shock! It's like they're
slapping you in the face and saying: "Thank you, you sap!" That,
likewise, significantly decreases my enjoyment of the meal. One of the
items listed that is like that are the watered down fountain sodas.
Popcorn prices at movie theaters really strike me that way. I just
can't get screwed like that and enjoy the movie. That is, when I do
pay the outrageous prices of admission to go along with family or
friends. Otherwise, it takes one hell of a movie for me to not to wait
until it comes out on Netflix, etc.
Same thing with food/beverages at sporting events. Though there,
unlike movie theaters, they usually allow bringing your own food and
nonalcoholic beverages. Minor league ballparks ain't too bad and I do
buy food and drinks there without feeling too ripped off.
The foregoing relates to the "nothing special" offerings. I have no
problem, at all, paying handsomely for fine dining and culinary art.
Ciccio
Ciccio
> In article <irgrti$r7...@dont-email.me>,
> Peter Lawrence <hummb...@aol.com> wrote:
> Yes. It would seem crazy to me to order steak or seafood, which I
> typically don't enjoy, instead of something I actually like.
I enjoy steak, but not seafood. So, I'm lucky I don't need to pay a
hefty premium. Though, I agree with you. No way I would order it if I
didn't enjoy it, just because it's a better bang for the buck.
Ciccio
Aahz Maruch
>price that it costs the restaurant to prepare my dish, but instead just the
>price I pay versus the amount of enjoyment I think I will receive in
>consuming that dish.
There's also the cost that I would pay to make the dish myself (both time
and money). Pizza is waaay too expensive to make at home.
--
Hugs and backrubs -- I break Rule 6 http://rule6.info/
<*> <*> <*>
"Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are
even stupider than that." --George Carlin
Todd Michel McComb
>Pizza is waaay too expensive to make at home.
I don't find making pizza at home to be particularly expensive of
time or money, but I also don't have a high-temperature wood-burning
pizza oven, so it isn't as good. Although it's pretty good.
Peter Lawrence
>
> I don't find making pizza at home to be particularly expensive of
> time or money, but I also don't have a high-temperature wood-burning
> pizza oven, so it isn't as good. Although it's pretty good.
Have you tried baking one on a high-temperature outdoor grill using a pizza
stone?
- Peter
Todd Michel McComb
Peter Lawrence <humm...@aol.com> wrote:
>Have you tried baking one on a high-temperature outdoor grill using
>a pizza stone?
No. I've seen the suggestion, though. Have you? In a normal
Italian-style pizza oven, the source of heat is next to the pizza,
not under it, and I do not own a large enough grill for that. So
that is a concern.
Peter Lawrence
I haven't. Don't have the time to make real pizza dough. But some friends
of mine have done it with pretty good results.
- Peter
Todd Michel McComb
Our bread machine actually has a pizza dough setting, and we use
it for a significant part of the process. It's not as good as the
best pizza places, but it's better than most.
David Arnstein
Peter Lawrence <humm...@aol.com> wrote:
>I, myself, do take price in consideration when ordering food, but not the
>price that it costs the restaurant to prepare my dish, but instead just the
>price I pay versus the amount of enjoyment I think I will receive in
>consuming that dish.
My strategy exactly. I must say, I found Ciccio's numbers to be very
interesting. But I don't know how to apply this knowledge.
--
David Arnstein (00)
arnstei...@pobox.com {{ }}
^^
Steve Fenwick
arns...@panix.com (David Arnstein) wrote:
> In article <irgrti$r7n$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Peter Lawrence <humm...@aol.com> wrote:
> >I, myself, do take price in consideration when ordering food, but not the
> >price that it costs the restaurant to prepare my dish, but instead just the
> >price I pay versus the amount of enjoyment I think I will receive in
> >consuming that dish.
>
> My strategy exactly. I must say, I found Ciccio's numbers to be very
> interesting. But I don't know how to apply this knowledge.
There may be generational and cultural factors at work that are not
obvious here (there probably are). I know relatives and others who would
never pay <X> for <Y>, because the food is <Y>, even if they agreed that
<Y> was as good as <Z> for which they would happily pay <X>. There are
also those who would never pay <X> under any conditions, because it's
too much.
I'm with JC and Peter (if the attributions above are still valid) on
this; it's a complex analysis of what's offered, how wealthy (or not) I
feel at the moment (it's own complex dance), other mood factors (hunger
level, when I last ate something similar, how I feel about the place),
who I'm with or not, etc.
Steve
--
steve <at> w0x0f <dot> com
"Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of
arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to
skid in sideways, chocolate in one hand, sidecar in the other, body thoroughly
used up, totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"
Golden California Girls
> to the restaurant's cost of goods. I couldn't care less what the
> wholesale cost of the food is, so long as I feel that the full
> experience of dining out is worth the price that I paid for it.
> I fully expect that the vast majority of my dining dollars cover
> the cost of skillful preparation and presentation.
>
> I really don't understand why someone would want to bean-count their
> restaurant check in this way. Doing so would significantly decrease
> my enjoyment of the meal.
Many factors come into play. Dining out because you want the fancy dining
out experience is one. Dining out when you are in some no name stop off
city short of your vacation destination is very different. Time to have a
meal is also important. Perhaps the difference is best summed up via the
"I Want Food" index. The more you "want food" the more the "markup index"
may come into play.
Ciccio
> In article <irh7k8$h5...@dont-email.me>,
> Peter Lawrence <hummb...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >Have you tried baking one on a high-temperature outdoor grill using
> >apizzastone?
>
> No. I've seen the suggestion, though.
Of course, you have. I told you about it on here a few years ago.
Give it a shot, already.
Ciccio
Todd Michel McComb
Ciccio <franc...@comcast.net> wrote:
>On May 24, 2:31=A0pm, mcc...@medieval.org (Todd Michel McComb) wrote:
>> In article <irh7k8$h5...@dont-email.me>,
>> >Have you tried baking one on a high-temperature outdoor grill using
>> >apizzastone?
>> No. I've seen the suggestion, though.
>Of course, you have. I told you about it on here a few years ago.
>Give it a shot, already.
Well, we'll see. I'll have to be in a particular sort of "mad
scientist" mood to give it a try, since I'm far from confident in
how it'll go. Admittedly, there's only one way to get the technique
down, and that's to try it.
Steve Pope
I swear when I first read this I thought "apizzastone" was the
name of the latest anti-hypertensive med.
S.
Ciccio
> I swear when I first read this I thought "apizzastone" was the
> name of the latest anti-hypertensive med.
Sorta like innuendo is an Italian suppository. :-)
Ciccio
axlq
Ciccio <franc...@comcast.net> wrote:
>"Restaurant markups deconstructed."
>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/05/22/BULP1JIC5F.DTL
>
>
>Summary...
>
>Markups to cost:
>Wine by the glass: Up to 5 times
A good rule is to assume that the restaurant's cost for the
bottle equals what they charge for a glass, and a bottle holds 4
regular-size glasses.
>Fountain soda: 20 times
This is the biggest rip-off, unless it's unlimited refills. That's why I
usually get water.
Another huge markup:
Corkage: approximately 100 times what it actually costs to provide you
with and wash an empty glass.
>Bargains:
>Steak: Restaurants break even or lose
>Seafood: Break even or lose
Glass of water: lose
-A
katleman
> >Fountain soda: 20 times
>
> This is the biggest rip-off, unless it's unlimited refills. That's why I
> usually get water.
Even unlimited refills is often quite very limited by how attentive
your wait staff is.
Frustrating enough to pay $2-$3 for a soda/iced tea, but to have it
sit empty for much of the meal is even worse.
I'm firmly in the water camp most of the time as well.
Peter Lawrence
> On Jun 2, 2:00 pm, a...@spamcop.net (axlq) wrote:
>>>
>>> Fountain soda: 20 times
>>
>> This is the biggest rip-off, unless it's unlimited refills. That's why I
>> usually get water.
>
> Even unlimited refills is often quite very limited by how attentive
> your wait staff is.
>
> Frustrating enough to pay $2-$3 for a soda/iced tea, but to have it
> sit empty for much of the meal is even worse.
But how many refills would you really want of soda, anyway?
- Peter
jcdill
If they fill the glass with ice first, it's only ~1/3 drinkable soda. A
32 ounce fast food cup filled with ice will hold 1 12 oz can of soda.
jc
Patti Beadles
jcdill <jcdill...@gmail.com> wrote:
>A 32 ounce fast food cup filled with ice will hold 1 12 oz can of soda.
I can't really imagine wanting to drink more soda than that.
jcdill
> In article<is94l3$cvs$1...@dont-email.me>,
> jcdill<jcdill...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> A 32 ounce fast food cup filled with ice will hold 1 12 oz can of soda.
>
> I can't really imagine wanting to drink more soda than that.
True, but at most restaurants where you have table service, they don't
bring a 32 ounce glass. So to *get* 32 ounces of drinkable soda you
need several refills of the ~12 oz glass, which contains ~4 ounces of
soda and the rest is ice.
jc
Peter Lawrence
Oh my goodness, who would want to drink 32 fl. oz. of soda, though? It
would be hard for me to drink more than 24 fl. oz. of *any* beverage in one
seating, let alone something so sweet and syrupy like soda pop.
Yes, I could understand after a workout or any type a strenuous physical
exertion, when you body might have become a bit dehydrated, one could drink
a lot more, including myself. But at a normal meal (breakfast, lunch, or
dinner) trying to consume more than 24 fl. oz. of any beverage is really
pushing it. I usually drink significantly less at a meal.
- Peter
Steve Fenwick
Peter Lawrence <humm...@aol.com> wrote:
All of them :D
Not soda but iced tea for sure. Restaurants where we are regulars know
to bring a carafe or pitcher full of iced tea at the start of the meal;
it will be gone by the end, and save the server many trips.
jcdill
> On 6/2/11 4:39 PM, jcdill wrote:
>> On 02/06/11 4:31 PM, Patti Beadles wrote:
>>> In article<is94l3$cvs$1...@dont-email.me>,
>>> jcdill<jcdill...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> A 32 ounce fast food cup filled with ice will hold 1 12 oz can of soda.
>>>
>>> I can't really imagine wanting to drink more soda than that.
>>
>> True, but at most restaurants where you have table service, they don't
>> bring
>> a 32 ounce glass. So to *get* 32 ounces of drinkable soda you need
>> several
>> refills of the ~12 oz glass, which contains ~4 ounces of soda and the
>> rest
>> is ice.
>
> Oh my goodness, who would want to drink 32 fl. oz. of soda, though? It
That was a typo. I meant to type:
So to get 12 ounces of drinkable soda, you need several refills of the
~12 oz glass, which contains ~4 ounces of soda and the rest is ice.
jc
Patti Beadles
jcdill <jcdill...@gmail.com> wrote:
>True, but at most restaurants where you have table service, they don't
>bring a 32 ounce glass. So to *get* 32 ounces of drinkable soda you
>need several refills of the ~12 oz glass, which contains ~4 ounces of
>soda and the rest is ice.
This doesn't jibe with my experience.
It's been quite a while since I ordered soda, but I seem to remember
that I often got it in more-or-less pint glasses with a little bit
of ice. I probably got 12oz of soda in a 16oz glass.
spamtrap1888
> On 02/06/11 6:03 PM, Peter Lawrence wrote:
>
>
>
> > On 6/2/11 4:39 PM, jcdill wrote:
> >> On 02/06/11 4:31 PM, Patti Beadles wrote:
> >>> jcdill<jcdill.li...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> A 32 ounce fast food cup filled with ice will hold 1 12 oz can of soda.
>
> >>> I can't really imagine wanting to drink more soda than that.
>
> >> True, but at most restaurants where you have table service, they don't
> >> bring
> >> a 32 ounce glass. So to *get* 32 ounces of drinkable soda you need
> >> several
> >> refills of the ~12 oz glass, which contains ~4 ounces of soda and the
> >> rest
> >> is ice.
>
> > Oh my goodness, who would want to drink 32 fl. oz. of soda, though? It
>
> That was a typo. I meant to type:
>
> So to get 12 ounces of drinkable soda, you need several refills of the
> ~12 oz glass, which contains ~4 ounces of soda and the rest is ice.
>
Reminds me of my buddy who likes rum and coke, but can't understand
why the standard is only some 2 oz of coke with 1.5 oz of rum.
Usually they will make him one in a water glass to provide an amount
of coke he considers reasonable.
Todd Michel McComb
Yes, the big problem seems to be that you'd be expected to drink
them. Ick.
SMS
> In article<59dfe9c1-f526-4c99...@d26g2000prn.googlegroups.com>,
> Ciccio<franc...@comcast.net> wrote:
>> "Restaurant markups deconstructed."
>> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2011/05/22/BULP1JIC5F.DTL
>>
>>
>> Summary...
>>
>> Markups to cost:
>> Wine by the glass: Up to 5 times
>
> A good rule is to assume that the restaurant's cost for the
> bottle equals what they charge for a glass, and a bottle holds 4
> regular-size glasses.
>
>> Fountain soda: 20 times
>
> This is the biggest rip-off, unless it's unlimited refills. That's why I
> usually get water.
It's about the worst of the worst in terms of something that's really
bad for you and really expensive. Free refills or not.
Go to 7-11 if you want massive amounts of HFCS flavored carbonated water:
20 oz Gulp
32 oz Big Gulp
44 oz Super Big Gulp
64 oz Double Gulp
128 oz Team Gulp
Wow, a four quart soda!
> Another huge markup:
> Corkage: approximately 100 times what it actually costs to provide you
> with and wash an empty glass.
The corkage fee is intended to make up for the lost profit of a lost
wine sale. Of course if wine were not so overpriced people would not
bring their own, but if beverages in general were not so overpriced then
the food prices would be so high that the restaurant would go under.
Peter Lawrence
>
> Reminds me of my buddy who likes rum and coke, but can't understand
> why the standard is only some 2 oz of coke with 1.5 oz of rum.
> Usually they will make him one in a water glass to provide an amount
> of coke he considers reasonable.
That's not the standard recipe for a rum & coke though.
The ratio should be at least one part (one shot) rum and two parts (two
shots) cola, though many recipes specify 3 part or even 4 parts cola for one
part of rum. Served with ice in a highball glass.
- Peter
James Silverton
Whatever ratio you use, I think rum and coke (Cuba Libre is it not?) is
pretty insipid without a good squeeze of lemonjuice or that of half a lime.
--
James Silverton, Potomac
I'm *not* not.jim....@verizon.net
Peter Lawrence
It's only a Cuba Libre if you add the lime. Otherwise, it's just Rum &
Coke. While in college, we rarely bothered with the lime. The limes were
saved for the Coronas.
(Now I have a hard time thinking why I once thought Coronas (even with a
lime) tasted good. Corona must be the most insipid tasting beer ever brewed
by man. More so than even Coors Light.)
- Peter
James Silverton
them improve with a slice of lime (but not much :-)
Pete Fraser
> Corona must be the most insipid tasting beer ever
> brewed by man.
I nominate Fix and 33.
Al Eisner
> On 6/3/11 12:24 PM, James Silverton wrote:
>> On 6/3/2011 1:02 PM, Peter Lawrence wrote:
>>> On 6/3/11 7:03 AM, spamtrap1888 wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Reminds me of my buddy who likes rum and coke, but can't understand
>>>> why the standard is only some 2 oz of coke with 1.5 oz of rum.
>>>> Usually they will make him one in a water glass to provide an amount
>>>> of coke he considers reasonable.
>>>
>>> That's not the standard recipe for a rum & coke though.
>>>
>>> The ratio should be at least one part (one shot) rum and two parts (two
>>> shots) cola, though many recipes specify 3 part or even 4 parts cola for
>>> one part of rum. Served with ice in a highball glass.
>>
>> Whatever ratio you use, I think rum and coke (Cuba Libre is it not?) is
>> pretty insipid without a good squeeze of lemonjuice or that of half a lime.
>
> It's only a Cuba Libre if you add the lime. Otherwise, it's just Rum & Coke.
Could you please characterize the politics of that drink? That is,
define "Libre".
> While in college, we rarely bothered with the lime. The limes were saved for
> the Coronas.
>
> (Now I have a hard time thinking why I once thought Coronas (even with a
> lime) tasted good. Corona must be the most insipid tasting beer ever brewed
> by man. More so than even Coors Light.)
You go too far, Peter Lawrence. :-)
--
Al Eisner
San Mateo Co., CA
spamtrap1888
You gentlemen need to try the Steel Kettle Whistle from the Fresh and
Easy chain. Tastes more like club soda than any beer I've ever had.
Peter Lawrence
>
> You gentlemen need to try the Steel Kettle Whistle from the Fresh and
> Easy chain. Tastes more like club soda than any beer I've ever had.
If a Corona tasted like club soda, that would be an improvement.
- Peter
axlq
SMS <scharf...@geemail.com> wrote:
>On 6/2/2011 2:00 PM, axlq wrote:
>> Another huge markup:
>> Corkage: approximately 100 times what it actually costs to provide you
>> with and wash an empty glass.
>
>The corkage fee is intended to make up for the lost profit of a lost
>wine sale.
I do understand that. My point is that they wouldn't have sold the
wine to me anyway, so there's no "lost sale" to make up for if I
bring my own. And, most of the places I've seen, the corkage fee is
higher than the profit they'd make on any wine on the low end of
their wine list.
-A
Julian Macassey
Cafe Bizou which has three locations in the LA area has
this on their web site:
"... a favorite with wine buffs for its $2 corkage fee. Cozy and
candle-lighted, it features an extensive menu of Francophile
favorites including sweetbreads and steak frites ..."
It is worth a visit if in LA. Always busy so make
reservations. Come early as they only make so many "specials",
and when they are gone, they mean it.
--
Everything I've ever needed to know I learned through sports.
- Sarah Palin
Al Eisner
Indigo, a restaurant I like in the SF Civic Center area, has both a very
extensive wine list and zero corkage fee. (I've never actually brought
my own wine with me, but it's nice to know.)
James Silverton
I can't say I've ever brought my own wine either and I resign myself to
paying twice or more than I would in a liquor store. As far as "corkage"
is concerned, in my opinion, the restaurant is entitled to be
recompensed for providing and washing glasses and I think also an
expected profit on a wine sale. I haven't much patience with people who
refuse to complete a good meal by drinking wine unless they have medical
reasons. That's not to say that I like the outrageous prices some places
charge.
Peter Lawrence
Also, in the South Bay, the Los Altos Grill (in downtown Los Altos) has no
corkage fee.
- Peter
Peter Lawrence
>
> I can't say I've ever brought my own wine either and I resign myself to
> paying twice or more than I would in a liquor store. As far as "corkage" is
> concerned, in my opinion, the restaurant is entitled to be recompensed for
> providing and washing glasses and I think also an expected profit on a wine
> sale. I haven't much patience with people who refuse to complete a good meal
> by drinking wine unless they have medical reasons.
Why? Many times I would much rather complete a good meal with a nice pint
of a high quality beer.
:)
- Peter
Serene Vannoy
I don't like wine. Never have. It would be silly for me to drink wine at
the end of a meal, or at any other time.
Serene
--
"Sex is just one of many pleasurable activities. I don't think of it as
special--sometimes I'd rather read a book. Where are the rules about
reading?" -- Kai on alt.poly
jcdill
>> Indigo, a restaurant I like in the SF Civic Center area, has both a very
>> extensive wine list and zero corkage fee. (I've never actually brought
>> my own wine with me, but it's nice to know.)
>
> Also, in the South Bay, the Los Altos Grill (in downtown Los Altos) has
> no corkage fee.
La Fondue in Saratoga, has BYOB nights on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday,
with no corkage those nights.
http://lafondue.com/html/hours.asp
jc