Alice Waters: Pol Pot in a muumuu?
Peter Lawrence
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/scavenger/detail?entry_id=50630
;)
- Peter
James Silverton
> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/scavenger/detail?entry_id=50630
>Does anyone else share this opinion that Anthony Bourdain has of her?
Neither the chefs nor anyone else who compares Alice Waters to the
murderous Pol Pot has any memory of recent history or much intelligence.
She may be pompous and self-opinionated but that's not the same thing!
--
James Silverton
Potomac, Maryland
Email, with obvious alterations: not.jim.silverton.at.verizon.not
Ciccio
Absofuckinloutely! And I'd say that even if she weren't in the
People's Republic of Berserkeley.
Though, I do agree with her as to Casa Orinda's fried chicken...It is
hella tasty.
Ciccio
Kent
"Peter Lawrence" <humm...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:hci1hr$6e1$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Bourdain is one of those so called "food writers" who rarely if ever gets in
front of a stove. Of his prodigious quantity of written "verbal diarrhea"
presumably about food only one I can find is a cookbook, "Les Halles". That
is simply a bunch of recipes copied from others.
We've lived in the Bay Area since the pre Chez Panise days. Alice Waters has
changed how we look at food. She's created a new cuisine. She doesn't,
however mandate anything. She's always open to something new and she
constantly looks for something "food new".
I find this uniquely disgusting because people actually listen to and
believe this kind of BS. I've always been bothered by the San Francisco
Chronicles food editor, Michael Bauer. When he came here he knew nothing
about food, even though he was the editor of a culinary dead major city in
the east. His naivety at the start was apparent from his rhetoric. This
turkey, however, has changed certain components of San Francisco dining for
the worse because people read him and believe him. That was also true of
Nicholas Boer, food editor of the Contra Costa Tiimes, who fortunately isn't
there anymore.
Jack Shelton, where are you??
Don Martinich
"Kent" <aka....@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> We've lived in the Bay Area since the pre Chez Panise days. Alice Waters has
> changed how we look at food. She's created a new cuisine. She doesn't,
> however mandate anything. She's always open to something new and she
> constantly looks for something "food new".
>
While the very vocal Alice Waters often gets sole credit for the
"revolution", this article by Ruth Reichl gives a glimpse of the fertile
ground that this all took place and the cast of culinary movers and
shakers that had a part in it.
http://www.restaurantdiningcritiques.com/food-power-by-ruth-reichl/
D.M.
Peter Lawrence
>
> I find this uniquely disgusting because people actually listen to and
> believe this kind of BS. I've always been bothered by the San Francisco
> Chronicles food editor, Michael Bauer. When he came here he knew nothing
> about food, even though he was the editor of a culinary dead major city in
> the east. His naivety at the start was apparent from his rhetoric. This
> turkey, however, has changed certain components of San Francisco dining for
> the worse because people read him and believe him. That was also true of
> Nicholas Boer, food editor of the Contra Costa Tiimes, who fortunately isn't
> there anymore.
>
> Jack Shelton, where are you??
I preferred the Chronicle's previous restaurant critics: Stan Sesser and
Patrica Unterman over Michael Bauer.
- Peter
Kent
going to mention that in my post, but failed to.
Kent
Golden California Girls
> Peter wrote on Sat, 31 Oct 2009 12:01:13 -0700:
>
>> http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/scavenger/detail?entry_id=50630
>
>> Does anyone else share this opinion that Anthony Bourdain has of her?
>
> Neither the chefs nor anyone else who compares Alice Waters to the
> murderous Pol Pot has any memory of recent history or much intelligence.
> She may be pompous and self-opinionated but that's not the same thing!
Pol Pot or Adolph Hitler, same thing, Godwin's law.
Ciccio
wrote:
> James Silverton wrote:
> Pol Pot or Adolph Hitler, same thing, Godwin's law.
Heh. I don't think "Pol Pot in a muumuu" quite raises to the level of
invoking Godwin's law. No more than would the Soup Nazi on Seinfeld.
OK, let's just say she's Stalin in Birkenstocks.
Ciccio
Kent
"Don Martinich" <dmart...@att.net> wrote in message
news:dmartinich-B0BD4...@text.giganews.com...
are, at present, the greatest influence on Northern California restaurants."
And this was true. She had the capacity and sincerity to attract people who
would become movers in what was important in food, especially her role in
selecting fresh ingredients and from that creating a uniquely "California
Cuisine". She hired and spawned a number who on their own became major food
players, including Paul Bertolli and others. She had something to do with
the genesis of our Acme bakery, and indirectly La Brea baker down south. She
is a uniquely good kind person, unusual in a business role. I believe at one
time Chez Panise profits were in some fashion shared with employees, rather
than paying them a fixed salary. She was one of the first to institute a
fixed tip to be added to your bill.
She's pretty heavy duty.
Kent
Ciccio
> A pompous ass like Anthony Bourdain should not be taken seriously.
Not really...
"Anthony Bourdain Clarifies Criticism of Alice Waters"
http://tinyurl.com/yck6nu8
As far as being a pompous ass, Waters has no shortage in that
department. One of the cool things Boy Wonder has done, is nod his
head and grin at Waters with her pompous "kitchen cabinet" bullshit,
then give her a well deserved blowing off. Of course, Waters is so
pompous and arrogant she probably is still clueless that her bullshit
got put on the White House pay-no-mind list.
Ciccio
Michael Sierchio
I thought it worth quoting this in full
Tony is an asshole, but an thoroughly entertaining one. I agree
with him entirely on the "let them eat cake" embodiment of
clueless privilege and entitlement of the organic, sustainable,
locavore nut jobs.
I don't have any burning issue with Alice Waters,
a restaurateur and visionary whose accomplishments
clearly dwarf my own, so I doubt it. In a perfect,
candy-colored world, I'd like to eat most of what
she'd like to see us eat. I feed my daughter mostly
organic food whenever possible—and greatly admire
what Dan Barber is doing. My comments were a heartfelt
reaction to her wildly hubristic letter to the (then)
president-elect, a document whose tone, timing and
content I found distasteful—particularly coming from
someone who hadn't even bothered to vote in the four
previous elections.
True, I am suspicious of wealthy suburbanites who
preach “back to the soil” philosophies—as if
most—or even many—could start digging subsistence
gardens in their back yards or afford expensive
organic or locavore lifestyles. But Chez Panisse was
inarguably a cradle of the food revolution. I respect
Alice Waters’ enormous contribution to changing the
way we eat and cook today. No one can take that away
from her. No one should try.
I intend to treat her with the respect she rightly
deserves. She says some stupid shit sometimes—and
she is certainly free to call “bullshit” on me
when I do the same.
Tim
To paraphrase a saying, "organic food is a tax on the stupid." (*)
Currently this tax is mostly being paid by the wealthy, who can afford
to pay the stupidity tax. However, as the ""It's, like, ORGANIC!"
movement spreads to even normal stores like Safeway and Kroger's, and
even the little bodegas the dirt people shop at, the tax is also being
paid by the inner city mutants.
The Schadenfreude Institute has awarded this trend with the "Let Them
Eat (Organic) Cake" Award for 2009.
(* Several studies have found no health benefits to "organic" food.
Here's one of several:
--Tim May
Tim
.....
> the genesis of our Acme bakery, and indirectly La Brea baker down south. She
> is a uniquely good kind person, unusual in a business role. I believe at one
> time Chez Panise profits were in some fashion shared with employees, rather
> than paying them a fixed salary. She was one of the first to institute a
> fixed tip to be added to your bill.
>
> She's pretty heavy duty.
You appear to be implying "She was one of the first to institute a
fixed tip to be added to your bill." as if this is a GOOD thing.
I don't know if this is so true, so I will avoid adding "and Eichmann"
to the "Pol Pot in a muumuu" to the charge.
Tips are for service given, not just a surtax on the bill.
In the debate on this here in ba.food a couple of years ago, some
argued that a "20% automatic tip" (even as high as 25%) should be
automatically added to a bill, and then even augmented on top of that
with a "real" tip, for service. Some were arguing that this automatic
bloat is to pay for underpaid waiters, or even to be shared with the
restaurant overall till so that cooks can be paid more.
(So, why not a 22% automatic tip applied to computer purchases, so
that wafer fab workers at Intel can be paid more?)
Utter insanity. Tips are for good service or superior meals. And 15%
is the right number as a baseline: no tip or an "insult tip" for poor
service, 15% or so for good service, maybe as much as 20% for truly
superior service, and conceivably higher if some special request was
met. But no "automatic tip plus a tip on top of that" as a baseline.
Just my opinion, of course. Except in places like SF where the
Waitpersyns Union is attempting to get the automatic tip added by law.
--Tim May
Ciccio
> You appear to be implying "She was one of the first to institute a
> fixed tip to be added to your bill." as if this is a GOOD thing.
Indeed, Waters is so full of her own bullshit she stinks. I'm
surprised she doesn't really go commie with a sliding scale. Instead,
she imposes a so-called regressive surcharge of 17% (Engel's law and
all that).
Heh. I wonder if she gives "military discounts"?
> Tips are for service given, not just a surtax on the bill.
That scam is most prevalent with room service. There's the "delivery
charge." Then there's the "gratuity" charge. Then on the tab there's a
space for a "TIP" !!! Man, for the uninitiated and don't read the VERY
fine print on the room service menu, it's a real hosing.
> Utter insanity. Tips are for good service or superior meals. And 15%
> is the right number as a baseline: no tip or an "insult tip" for poor
> service, 15% or so for good service, maybe as much as 20% for truly
> superior service, and conceivably higher if some special request was
> met. But no "automatic tip plus a tip on top of that" as a baseline.
That's about how I do it. And on the pretax amount.
Ciccio
who
So who does, and why?
It's made-up drama for TV.
It's entertainment.
And at that, it's better than 95% of the stuff on TV.
I have to laugh every time he takes off on Rachael Ray.
It's one of the funniest things on TV.
He's like a white, sarcastic Chris Rock.
The people who take him seriously ... it says more about them than about
A.B.
Last Friday was the 71st anniversary of Orson Welles "War of the Worlds"
broadcast. (Coincidentally, it was a Halloween episode of Mercury Theater.)
Many people were hysterical because they actually believed that Earth was
being invaded my Martians.
And today, in the San Francisco Bay Area, people are running around
screaming "We're being invaded by New York food critics!"
Too funny.
I'd be surprised if Alice Waters takes it seriously. She's too intelligent
and confident.
who
Do the math.
The difference between basing it on the pre-tax amount or on the total
amount is _14 cents_ per $10 of bill. On a $50 bill that would be around 70
cents.
For those who round off/up to the nearest dollar anyway, it's like no
difference at all.
Or do you count the pennies into the little tray?
Ciccio
> > A pompous ass like Anthony Bourdain should not be taken seriously.
> The people who take him seriously ... it says more about them than about
> A.B.
Like all satire, Bourdain's presentations require an active mind,
whereby what is to be taken seriously is distinguished from what
shouldn't be. Thus, people who don't take Bourdain seriously at all,
have the same mental laziness, or mental inability, as people who
take him totally seriously...two sides of the same coin.
Ciccio
Ciccio
> Do the math.
> The difference between basing it on the pre-tax amount or on the total
> amount is _14 cents_ per $10 of bill. On a $50 bill that would be around 70
> cents.
And do the math further 6 such meals per month... .70 x 72 = $50.40
per year or the equivalent of one free $50 meal.
> For those who round off/up to the nearest dollar anyway, it's like no
> difference at all.
But not for those who round off/down to the nearest dollar anyway.
My money, my rules...Your money, your rules. But thanks for
substantiating that my rule on the issue is, at least, as valid as
yours, if it doesn't make any difference.
Ciccio
Al Eisner
I agree. Indeed, this is probably the only thing you've said in this
thread which I think can be taken seriously. Probably we should regard
you in the same light as the above.
Although he's generally entertaining, it's hard to calibrate Bourdain's
"No Reservations", So it was interesting to see his San Francisco
show, a mix of (to my mind) inspired and bizarre choices. (By the
way, one of his stops was Incanto, which Alison suggests in another
thread is popular with a biker crowd -- no, not that type of biker.
Bourdain apparently favored it for its organ meats and other traditional
animal-derived preparations which some would consider outlandish, and
Incanto apparently provided such for him.)
--
Al Eisner
San Mateo Co., CA
evergene
>...I will avoid adding "and Eichmann"
>to the "Pol Pot in a muumuu" to the charge.
And here I thought you were one of Eichmann's biggest fans!
Ciccio
> On Sun, 1 Nov 2009, Ciccio wrote:
> > On Nov 1, 12:00 pm, "who" <w...@where.com> wrote:
> >>> A pompous ass like Anthony Bourdain should not be taken seriously.
>
> >> The people who take him seriously ... it says more about them than about
> >> A.B.
>
> > Like all satire, Bourdain's presentations require an active mind,
> > whereby what is to be taken seriously is distinguished from what
> > shouldn't be. Thus, people who don't take Bourdain seriously at all,
> > have the same mental laziness, or mental inability, as people who
> > take him totally seriously...two sides of the same coin.
>
> I agree. Indeed, this is probably the only thing you've said in this
> thread which I think can be taken seriously. Probably we should regard
> you in the same light as the above.
"Probably"? You think"?! As to me, there's no probably about it.
When it comes most of the Usenet posters, "probably" would still be an
understatement.
> Although he's generally entertaining, it's hard to calibrate Bourdain's
> "No Reservations", So it was interesting to see his San Francisco
> show, a mix of (to my mind) inspired and bizarre choices.
I saw that one and I found it entertaining. Like most of his "No
Reservations" shows, it favored the places where the locals eat,
instead of the tourist haunts. Of course, at times, the two aren't
mutually exclusive.
Ciccio
JC Dill
> To paraphrase a saying, "organic food is a tax on the stupid." (*)
> (* Several studies have found no health benefits to "organic" food.
> Here's one of several:
>
> http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/booster_shots/2009/07/organic-food-no-more-nutritious-than-conventionallyraised-study-finds.html
> )
For most people who buy organic food, there's more than just a "health
benefit" involved in the decision to eat organic food. Some people
don't like the idea of tons of pesticides dumped on the land. They feel
that this is penny-wise but pound-foolish and will eventually lead to
serious problems with the environment. So they choose organic food to
avoid being a participant in the pesticide chain.
There are also "several studies" that DID find benefits to organic food:
http://www.foodnavigator.com/Science-Nutrition/Study-supports-benefits-of-organic-food
So the jury's still out.
jc
rone
Bourdain is arrogant and sometimes reckless, but he is far from being
pompous.
rone
--
"The priest jabbered incomprehensibly on the distinctive nature of Christian
actions, as opposed to Jewish and Muslim actions, in the world. Not one word
about Mary. No connection to the readings. I am getting tired of this man,
and I think his liturgy is suspect." -- Richard Allan Baruz
Al Eisner
Some of the places were "locals" (such as Red's, which I've never been
to but have read about here), but others (like Sebo) didn't seem to fall
into that category. But whether I agree with his choices/assessments
or not, he is certainly entertaining. I far prefer his show to
anything on the Food Channel (apart from Alton Brown's Good Eats,
but that's in an orthogonal category).
Ciccio
> Some of the places were "locals" (such as Red's, which I've never been
> to but have read about here), but others (like Sebo) didn't seem to fall
> into that category. But whether I agree with his choices/assessments
> or not, he is certainly entertaining. I far prefer his show to
> anything on the Food Channel (apart from Alton Brown's Good Eats,
> but that's in an orthogonal category).
He visited that "roach coach" in Oakland, House of Prime Rib, that
storefront place in the Mission, and that Pirate Cat Radio freak, and
some other place(s) that escape right now, but it seemed like mostly
"locals." House of Prime Rib, I suppose, could be a tourist/local
place.
Ciccio