Ridiculous dining experience 2

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Vincent Lo

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
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Well since so many responded to my cockroach post, I might as well post some
ridiculous dining experiences I've had.

This just happened last Sunday at Sundance Mining Restaurant in Palo Alto.
I haven't been to the restaurant for some time, and reviews about the place
have been mixed. Anyway, the four of us brought in two Entertainment cards
to get two entrees off. (You can use up to 3 cards at a table.) Anyway
without the cards we wouldn't have gone there, as my last dining experience
there was so-so, albeit a while ago.

My friend already warned me beforehand that they looked down on the young
Stanford people for some reason, but what happened was a little *too* rude.
I brought in a decent wine, and they charged us ten bucks, just as stated in
the menu. Well when the waiter came back with the bill, they said we
shouldn't have brought in a wine and had two entrees taken off with the
cards, as they would have no profit. Bringing the wine and using the cards
was against the rule, he said, and he could have taken our cards away.
That's of course not true regarding the rule. But the threatening was
unnecessary; he was not empowered to anyway.

It's funny he condescended on us so explicitly, when he's talking to someone
who for the past year has been treated to fancy restaurants all over the
world, Asia, California, other states. #*!$ I've even been to the French
Laundry twice this year, and this idiot treated us like some cheap students.

Just as in the cockroach experience, I paid a 15% tip as my guests didn't
want too much trouble.

Vincent Lo
v...@cs.stanford.edu


Karen O'Mara

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
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Vincent Lo wrote:

The entertainment cards entice customers to try a restaurant [one more time or
a first time] at a lesser risk, and this strategy will theoretically gain loyal
customers who return often and pay full price again and again.

They have the corkage fee to more than cover that expense. It's a separate and
as you said, written in black and white.

I have no idea what was up their butts but I think they blew it, and if they
don't like the entertainment cards, they shouldn't offer them. False
advertising!. Print out this thread and send it to the owner.

I think they owe you a meal to show ba.food they run a decent business.

Karen


Peter L

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
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Vincent Lo wrote:
>
> Well since so many responded to my cockroach post, I might as well post some
> ridiculous dining experiences I've had.

This kind of things happen to you often, don't it? May ask yourself
why.

>
> This just happened last Sunday at Sundance Mining Restaurant in Palo Alto.
> I haven't been to the restaurant for some time, and reviews about the place
> have been mixed. Anyway, the four of us brought in two Entertainment cards
> to get two entrees off. (You can use up to 3 cards at a table.) Anyway
> without the cards we wouldn't have gone there, as my last dining experience
> there was so-so, albeit a while ago.

A number of warning signs already. No wonder you keep getting these bad
dinning experiences.

>
> My friend already warned me beforehand that they looked down on the young
> Stanford people for some reason, but what happened was a little *too* rude.

Certainly justified, from where I sit. Ask the Megster why anyone would
look down on young Stanford people.


> I brought in a decent wine, and they charged us ten bucks, just as stated in
> the menu. Well when the waiter came back with the bill, they said we
> shouldn't have brought in a wine and had two entrees taken off with the
> cards, as they would have no profit. Bringing the wine and using the cards
> was against the rule, he said, and he could have taken our cards away.
> That's of course not true regarding the rule. But the threatening was
> unnecessary; he was not empowered to anyway.
>
> It's funny he condescended on us so explicitly, when he's talking to someone
> who for the past year has been treated to fancy restaurants all over the
> world, Asia, California, other states. #*!$ I've even been to the French
> Laundry twice this year, and this idiot treated us like some cheap students.
>
> Just as in the cockroach experience, I paid a 15% tip as my guests didn't
> want too much trouble.

Why do you keep doing this? You are singlehandedly supporting bad
waitering in the South Bay. Stop it!

>
> Vincent Lo
> v...@cs.stanford.edu

Lisa Garvey

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
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Vincent Lo wrote:

> Well since so many responded to my cockroach post, I might as well post some
> ridiculous dining experiences I've had.
>

> This just happened last Sunday at Sundance Mining Restaurant in Palo Alto.
> I haven't been to the restaurant for some time, and reviews about the place
> have been mixed. Anyway, the four of us brought in two Entertainment cards
> to get two entrees off. (You can use up to 3 cards at a table.) Anyway
> without the cards we wouldn't have gone there, as my last dining experience
> there was so-so, albeit a while ago.
>

> My friend already warned me beforehand that they looked down on the young
> Stanford people for some reason, but what happened was a little *too* rude.

> I brought in a decent wine, and they charged us ten bucks, just as stated in
> the menu. Well when the waiter came back with the bill, they said we
> shouldn't have brought in a wine and had two entrees taken off with the
> cards, as they would have no profit. Bringing the wine and using the cards
> was against the rule, he said, and he could have taken our cards away.
> That's of course not true regarding the rule. But the threatening was
> unnecessary; he was not empowered to anyway.
>
> It's funny he condescended on us so explicitly, when he's talking to someone
> who for the past year has been treated to fancy restaurants all over the
> world, Asia, California, other states. #*!$ I've even been to the French
> Laundry twice this year, and this idiot treated us like some cheap students.

If you're using 2 Entertainment cards, you ARE a cheap student, no matter how
many times you've been to French Laundry. Sheesh.

>
>
> Just as in the cockroach experience, I paid a 15% tip as my guests didn't
> want too much trouble.
>

> Vincent Lo
> v...@cs.stanford.edu


Peter L

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
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bizbee wrote:
>
> Yn erthygl <37FB71...@csus.edu>, sgrifenws Peter L
> <Nospam...@csus.edu>:

>
> >Vincent Lo wrote:
>
> >> Just as in the cockroach experience, I paid a 15% tip as my guests didn't
> >> want too much trouble.
> >
> >Why do you keep doing this? You are singlehandedly supporting bad
> >waitering in the South Bay. Stop it!
>
> Maybe because he's not a complete dick? Bad servers are here to stay,
> if you didn't notice. They've been around since dining out was
> invented.
> Get used to it.

But don't support it with his tip, please. How's service going to
improve if people keep rewarding bad service?

Todd Michel McComb

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
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In article <37fe819b...@nntp.ix.netcom.com>,

bizbee <tub...@ix.netcom.com> wrote:
>Yn erthygl <37FB71...@csus.edu>, sgrifenws Peter L
><Nospam...@csus.edu>:
>>Vincent Lo wrote:
>>>Just as in the cockroach experience, I paid a 15% tip as my
>>>guests didn't want too much trouble.
>>Why do you keep doing this? You are singlehandedly supporting bad
>>waitering in the South Bay. Stop it!
>Maybe because he's not a complete dick? Bad servers are here to stay,
>if you didn't notice.

They may be here to stay, but there is really no reason to tip
people for bad service. As "Peter Nospam" implies, of course
they're going to condescend to you if they know you are going to
tip them regardless of what they say or do to you. You can see
that in a person's eyes.


Steve Wertz

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
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Vincent Lo <v...@cs.stanford.edu> wrote:

: shouldn't have brought in a wine and had two entrees taken off with the


: cards, as they would have no profit. Bringing the wine and using the cards
: was against the rule, he said, and he could have taken our cards away.

They made more of a profit than they would have if you had just
used the cards and had water with your meal.

I probably piss off a lot of restaurants this way. I only ever
drink water with my meal, even at the lowest form of restaurants.
I prefer water. It's not that I'm so cheap I don't want to pay $1.50
for 10 ounces of soda or tea, either. Even with my value meals,
I usually ask for carbonated water (this is course, confuses them).

Anyway, you should have just brought a cockroach. Yes, it failed at the
Thai place, that was rare.

-sw


Karen O'Mara

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
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Lisa Garvey wrote:

> If you're using 2 Entertainment cards, you ARE a cheap student, no matter how
> many times you've been to French Laundry. Sheesh.

Two cards for four people? For four people that may have entertained business
elsewhere? The more cards (up to three per table) is what they're looking for,
supposedly.

I don't see why you think that's cheap. It's the restaurant's promotion, isn't
it?

Karen


Todd Michel McComb

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
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In article <7tg2cf$otl$1...@avon.europe.sco.com>,

Steve Wertz <swe...@sco.com> wrote:
>I probably piss off a lot of restaurants this way. I only ever
>drink water with my meal. I prefer water.

My wife is the same. And we don't allow the kids to drink other
than water, even if a free "soft drink" is included in the kids
meals many places have. I do drink beer, unless they have nothing
I like on tap, in which case I also drink water. (All this goes
out the window at a high end restaurant: No kids, and we drink
wine.)

Some places seem a little put out by it at first, although not that
often. Even then, the ones with any sense realize that if we're
turning down free soda for the kids, it isn't a cheapskate issue.
Of course, once they see our menu selections typically include high
profit items, they forget all about it. It's hard to get too worked
up over $3 in soda, I would think.


Karen O'Mara

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
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Todd Michel McComb wrote:

> My wife is the same. And we don't allow the kids to drink other
> than water, even if a free "soft drink" is included in the kids
> meals many places have. I do drink beer, unless they have nothing
> I like on tap, in which case I also drink water. (All this goes
> out the window at a high end restaurant: No kids, and we drink
> wine.)
>
> Some places seem a little put out by it at first, although not that
> often. Even then, the ones with any sense realize that if we're
> turning down free soda for the kids, it isn't a cheapskate issue.
> Of course, once they see our menu selections typically include high
> profit items, they forget all about it. It's hard to get too worked
> up over $3 in soda, I would think.

Gosh I'm feeling nosey.

Do you turn down soda for the kids to back up your plan? Or why can't
your kids have soda and you can have beer?

Karen


Todd Michel McComb

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
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In article <37FBA57B...@randomgraphics.com>,

Karen O'Mara <ka...@randomgraphics.com> wrote:
>Gosh I'm feeling nosey.

I'm evidently feeling chatty, so it's a perfect combination.

>Do you turn down soda for the kids to back up your plan?

Our plan? I am not sure what you mean. We simply prefer water to
most drinks offered. At home we drink almost entirely water.

>Or why can't your kids have soda and you can have beer?

I don't believe soda is healthy, especially for kids.


Steve Wertz

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
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Karen O'Mara <ka...@randomgraphics.com> wrote:
: Todd Michel McComb wrote:

:> My wife is the same. And we don't allow the kids to drink other
:> than water, even if a free "soft drink" is included in the kids
:> meals many places have. I do drink beer, unless they have nothing
:> I like on tap, in which case I also drink water. (All this goes
:> out the window at a high end restaurant: No kids, and we drink
:> wine.)
:>
:> Some places seem a little put out by it at first, although not that
:> often. Even then, the ones with any sense realize that if we're
:> turning down free soda for the kids, it isn't a cheapskate issue.
:> Of course, once they see our menu selections typically include high
:> profit items, they forget all about it. It's hard to get too worked
:> up over $3 in soda, I would think.

: Gosh I'm feeling nosey.

: Do you turn down soda for the kids to back up your plan? Or why can't


: your kids have soda and you can have beer?

Maybe the kids will start bouncing around under the tables. I remember
a lot of parents that didn't want their kids to have [caffeinated] sodas
or chocolate and such.

Surely, this is a Good Thing when it comes to kids in restaurants, yes?

-sw


Meg Worley

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
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Biz had written:

>> Maybe because he's not a complete dick?

PeterL writes:
>But don't support it with his tip, please.

Please, watch your metaphors -- you're making me queasy.

ObFood: Finally tried the breakfast at Country Gourmet. The
food was all right, but the atmosphere bugged me... kind of
a Hobee's-fastfood hybrid.


Rage away,

meg

--
m...@steam.stanford.edu Comparatively Literate

Todd Michel McComb

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
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In article <7tgcsk$7...@steam.stanford.edu>,

Meg Worley <m...@steam.stanford.edu> wrote:
>Finally tried the breakfast at Country Gourmet. The food was all
>right, but the atmosphere bugged me... kind of a Hobee's-fastfood
>hybrid.

I don't know which one you tried, but the one in Sunnyvale at
Fremont and Mary is substantially better than the one in Mountain
View (although I have never eaten breakfast at either).


Meg Worley

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
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I wrote:
>>Finally tried the breakfast at Country Gourmet. The food was all
>>right, but the atmosphere bugged me... kind of a Hobee's-fastfood
>>hybrid.

Tuxedo Todd writes:
>I don't know which one you tried, but the one in Sunnyvale at
>Fremont and Mary is substantially better than the one in Mountain
>View (although I have never eaten breakfast at either).

It was the Mouton Vieux one. I'll give the other one a try,
next time we're looking for a non-Joanie's breakfast.

Meg Worley

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
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Vincent writes:
>My friend already warned me beforehand that they looked down on the young
>Stanford people for some reason, but what happened was a little *too* rude.

In my experience, the SMC's attitude problem has nothing to
do with age or university affiliation -- they just stink.
We took Special K's parents there awhile back, since they
are of the meat-and-two-veg generation. Man, whatta
disaster. And I think our meal must have been more
fortunate than that of our neighbors, as we witnessed
altercations with the staff on both sides of us. The
food wasn't especially special either, although the
martinis weren't bad.

>It's funny he condescended on us so explicitly, when he's talking to someone
>who for the past year has been treated to fancy restaurants all over the
>world, Asia, California, other states. #*!$ I've even been to the French
>Laundry twice this year, and this idiot treated us like some cheap students.

I have to say, Vincent, this is unpersuasive. Is there some
reason I'm unaware of that students, or the thrifty in general,
deserve worse service than people who have eaten at the FL
twice this year? Clue me in here, so that I can respond
appropriately to my own students.

Karen O'Mara

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
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Todd Michel McComb wrote:

> In article <7tgcsk$7...@steam.stanford.edu>,


> Meg Worley <m...@steam.stanford.edu> wrote:
> >Finally tried the breakfast at Country Gourmet. The food was all
> >right, but the atmosphere bugged me... kind of a Hobee's-fastfood
> >hybrid.
>

> I don't know which one you tried, but the one in Sunnyvale at
> Fremont and Mary is substantially better than the one in Mountain
> View (although I have never eaten breakfast at either).

How do you know it's better?

Karen


Meg Worley

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
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Vincent had written:
>> My friend already warned me beforehand that they looked down on the young
>> Stanford people for some reason, but what happened was a little *too* rude.

PeterL writes:
>Certainly justified, from where I sit. Ask the Megster why anyone would
>look down on young Stanford people.

The only person I know who appears to look down on young
Stanford people is you, Petie, so I'm guessing that the
reason one would do so is that one is an embittered
Berkeley refugee. But I could be wrong.

ObFood: A pal recently convinced us to try Katie's,
on Saratoga Ave. in Santa Clara, with him. I liked it
pretty well, but Special K was displeased. It's a weird
joint... Italian food served in a storefront restaurant
decorated entirely in homespun/Shaker style. The food
is reasonably imaginative, although done with varying
success (Himself, as usual, chose the menu item that
wasn't very good -- a pasta in a gouda sauce). The
gorgonzola bruschetta starter was excellent, as was my
chicken with veggies, walnuts & blue cheese pasta.

It's an idiosyncratic menu, to go with the peculiar decor.
Nearly all the pastas feature chicken and olives, and same
for the starters with regard to olives and capers. The
tiramisu is tasty, but a very unusual version of the dish,
with allspice a main flavor.

It seemed pricy, but all the dishes include a nice salad,
and the $4 glass of wine was not only decent but was more
like a glass-and-a-half, served in its own little carafe.

All in all, a strange place that may or may not suit.
And the waitress was wearing a toupee on top of her
ponytail.

dke...@best.com

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
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In article <7tgeeg$8...@steam.stanford.edu>,
Meg Worley <m...@steam.stanford.edu> wrote:

>I wrote:
>>>Finally tried the breakfast at Country Gourmet. The food was all
>>>right, but the atmosphere bugged me... kind of a Hobee's-fastfood
>>>hybrid.
>
>Tuxedo Todd writes:
>>I don't know which one you tried, but the one in Sunnyvale at
>>Fremont and Mary is substantially better than the one in Mountain
>>View (although I have never eaten breakfast at either).
>
>It was the Mouton Vieux one. I'll give the other one a try,
>next time we're looking for a non-Joanie's breakfast.

Disappointing. I like Joanie's and go there frequently,
but they do a really crummy job on the weekend (I don't
know if it's a different chef or managing the larger
volume) and was hoping Country Gourmet could be a
replacement.


--
Dave Eisen Sequoia Peripherals: (408) 752-1400
dke...@netcom.com FAX: (408) 752-2707
In our society, you can state your views, but they have to be correct.
--- Ernie Hai, coordinator Singapore Gov't Internet Project.

Peter L

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
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Been teaching too many freshman comp classes? Losing to San Jose State
scrambled your brain? I did a double take before I realize what you
were referring to (ok I ended a sentence with a preposition. So sue
me.).


Meg Worley wrote:
>
> Biz had written:
> >> Maybe because he's not a complete dick?
>
> PeterL writes:
> >But don't support it with his tip, please.
>
> Please, watch your metaphors -- you're making me queasy.
>

> ObFood: Finally tried the breakfast at Country Gourmet. The


> food was all right, but the atmosphere bugged me... kind of
> a Hobee's-fastfood hybrid.
>

Peter L

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
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bizbee wrote:
>
> Yn erthygl <7tg1um$83p$1...@machaut.medieval.org>, sgrifenws
> mcc...@medieval.org (Todd Michel McComb):
> Oh, I agree with both of you... I wouldn't tip him either, but that
> would be out of my position... I don't tip shitty or rude service.
> However, if you guys think that withholding all or any portion of a
> tip is going to have any bearing whatsoever on whether service
> improves, you're in for a drastic shock. If the service is lousy, you
> complain about it to the person's boss, not the server. All the server
> will do is show his butt-buddies back at the servers' station and say
> "Look what <this> tight-ass left me for a tip," and they'll all agree
> with him. When the manager kicks him in the balls because a customer
> complained that he was rude (the BIG no-no in the business),
> <everyone> knows what happened, and they all get a lesson in how to
> act.
> Then the service (hopefully) improves. If not, the guy winds up in the
> unemployment line, and service improves simply because the person
> isn't there any longer. That's how it's handled. If the boss doesn't
> give a damn, I don't go back. Enough people don't go back, the place
> goes under, and everyone learns a lesson in how to behave when you're
> running a restaurant. I know exactly how it works, I'm part of
> management in a large restaurant.


Ok now I see what you mean, and I agree. No tip, and complain to the
boss. Double whamy.

Peter L

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
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Apparently some student thinks so, esp. if they go to high priced
private "institutions" (unnamed here). Many years and couple of
lifetimes ago when I was teaching at such an "institution", one of my
student called to delay an appointment, because she had to meet with her
stockbroker.


Meg Worley wrote:
>

>
> I have to say, Vincent, this is unpersuasive. Is there some
> reason I'm unaware of that students, or the thrifty in general,
> deserve worse service than people who have eaten at the FL
> twice this year? Clue me in here, so that I can respond
> appropriately to my own students.
>

Todd Michel McComb

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
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In article <37FBC1DF...@randomgraphics.com>,

Karen O'Mara <ka...@randomgraphics.com> wrote:
>Todd Michel McComb wrote:
>>I don't know which one you tried, but the one in Sunnyvale at
>>Fremont and Mary is substantially better than the one in Mountain
>>View (although I have never eaten breakfast at either).
>How do you know it's better?

Oh, I only know that dinner is better. But since the Mountain View
one has reopened, and I have eaten there a few times since, the
basic disorganization struck me as a trait which was sure to
infiltrate breakfast as well. I don't even eat breakfast, let
alone go out for it, so I sure can't comment on that meal per se.

The Sunnyvale Country Gourmet certainly has a bigger dinner menu
and more consistent preparation. Their recipes, on the other hand,
are hit or miss. It's a bunch of California-fusion ideas, none
especially refined before trying on us. Sometimes they work and
you get a great meal at a good price, and sometimes they don't.
Their tendency is to overdo the expensive part of the dish (too
many shrimp, not enough pasta, for instance), so I suppose you
always get a good value. I still eat there regularly, obviously,
because it's fast, easy and casual (yes, we take the kids, and they
have kids' meals).


Todd Michel McComb

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
to
In article <37fbcdd7$0$2...@nntp1.ba.best.com>, <ed...@best.NOSPAM.com> wrote:
>If it's bad enough to deserve more than a slight reduction of the
>tip (ie, below the "OK that's almost 15%" point) then it's bad
>enough to deserve a mention to the manager, and possibly also a
>letter to corporate, if they're a chain.

I agree with you that this is appropriate sometimes. It is a
courtesy to the place in question, as I see it, and if I value the
restaurant in some way, I will offer them this opportunity. However,
more often than not, when I have an unpleasant service experience,
I have no reason to return anyway. Then I don't feel like offering
them this courtesy.


Amalia Freedman

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
to
Todd Michel McComb wrote:
>
> In article <7tg2cf$otl$1...@avon.europe.sco.com>,
> Steve Wertz <swe...@sco.com> wrote:
> >I probably piss off a lot of restaurants this way. I only ever
> >drink water with my meal. I prefer water.
>
> My wife is the same. And we don't allow the kids to drink other
> than water, even if a free "soft drink" is included in the kids
> meals many places have. I do drink beer, unless they have nothing
> I like on tap, in which case I also drink water. (All this goes
> out the window at a high end restaurant: No kids, and we drink
> wine.)
>
> Some places seem a little put out by it at first, although not that
> often. Even then, the ones with any sense realize that if we're
> turning down free soda for the kids, it isn't a cheapskate issue.
> Of course, once they see our menu selections typically include high
> profit items, they forget all about it. It's hard to get too worked
> up over $3 in soda, I would think.

Yeah, I have that problem, too. Unless I'm having wine or beer, I want
water. Can't stand soda or iced tea or even juice (don't like sweet
drinks with food). And sometimes I don't want carbonated water and still
water isn't an option (whine). I don't know what to do about the
impression that creates in wait staff. It's the first thing they ask
when you sit down, and can set the tone for service for the rest of the
meal. Sometimes it takes till dessert to make it clear the water thing
isn't about being cheap. Sure, you can tip lower at the end if the
service is bad, but who wants to do that? I just want water, a meal and
good service. It's a quandary.

I am impressed by your willpower on the soda with kids thing. My sister
used to fly off walls from the sugar, so none of us ever got soda in
restaurants. But we were made to drink milk every night. Ugh, I still
hate milk.

AEF

Amalia Freedman

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Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
to
Todd Michel McComb wrote:
>
> In article <37FBC1DF...@randomgraphics.com>,
> Karen O'Mara <ka...@randomgraphics.com> wrote:
> >Todd Michel McComb wrote:
> >>I don't know which one you tried, but the one in Sunnyvale at
> >>Fremont and Mary is substantially better than the one in Mountain
> >>View (although I have never eaten breakfast at either).
> >How do you know it's better?
>
[snip]

> The Sunnyvale Country Gourmet certainly has a bigger dinner menu
> and more consistent preparation. Their recipes, on the other hand,
> are hit or miss. It's a bunch of California-fusion ideas, none
> especially refined before trying on us. Sometimes they work and
> you get a great meal at a good price, and sometimes they don't.
> Their tendency is to overdo the expensive part of the dish (too
> many shrimp, not enough pasta, for instance), so I suppose you
> always get a good value. I still eat there regularly, obviously,
> because it's fast, easy and casual (yes, we take the kids, and they
> have kids' meals).

Okay, this is a pretty sophisticated bunch. And I don't know the
Peninsula/South Bay very well, so I've never seen these locations. But
this place is called Country Gourmet and it's not in the South and you
have high expectations for the place? I read merrily along thinking this
was a fried chicken and grits kind of place, but the Cal-fusion
reference completely threw me. Can someone please explain the initial
appeal???

AEF

Todd Michel McComb

unread,
Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
to
In article <37FBF083...@bah.com>,

Amalia Freedman <freedma...@bah.com> wrote:
>But this place is called Country Gourmet and it's not in the South
>and you have high expectations for the place?

Uh... it more or less meets my modest expectations for a quick
dinner with the kids. They rotate their menu, usually have a decent
selection from different meats to pastas to risotto to vegetarian
(in Sunnyvale they do), have their own pretty decent bakery, and
are super-casual. So that's the appeal, I guess. It isn't great,
but it isn't that bad either. Some people go to McDonald's; I go
to Country Gourmet.


Meg Worley

unread,
Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
to
Amalia wrote:
>>Okay, this is a pretty sophisticated bunch.

Bizbee writes:
>ok, that's two beer soaked screens in one thread..... stop it!

Hey, wasn't the subject line adequate warning for you?
That should have been a signal to swallow and set down
your beer. I say you get what you asked for.

Icono Clast

unread,
Oct 6, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/6/99
to
bizbee wrote:
> >>Or why can't your kids have soda and you can have beer?

> >I don't believe soda is healthy, especially for kids.

I agree. I think it's unconscionable for schools to sell sodas and
other beverages and foods that are commonly known to be either
unhealthful or of no nutritional value. If they want junk food, they
can leave the campus to visit the corner grocery.

> actually, I think you should get the kids a beer too.

I'll never forget a whiney little boy of six or so in a Spanish
cantina who said "Pero Popi, no me gusta vino; yo quiero cerveza!"
--
ICONO CLAST: A San Franciscan in 47.335² mile San Francisco.


Allan Schaffer

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Oct 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/7/99
to
Amalia Freedman <freedma...@bah.com> said..

>Okay, this is a pretty sophisticated bunch. And I don't know the
>Peninsula/South Bay very well, so I've never seen these locations. But

>this place is called Country Gourmet and it's not in the South and you
>have high expectations for the place? I read merrily along thinking this
>was a fried chicken and grits kind of place, but the Cal-fusion
>reference completely threw me. Can someone please explain the initial
>appeal???

IMHO the appeal is zero, Country Gourmet [in Mountain View] is one of
my least favorite restaurants in the area. Everything is below par,
from the food, the seating, the decor, the menu where nothing seems
very appealing, the bothersome ordering scheme, the long wait after
your order is taken, the cluttered register area, the dirty looks
unless you're unshaven & wearing hemp-based clothing and sandals, the
unbussed tables, the extra hassle over ordering beverages, and so on.

It's not that the food is revolting/disgusting (a la Colonel Lee's
Mongolian BBQ) it's just that they score very low in _every_ category
and have an amazing "hassle factor".

Allan
--
Allan Schaffer al...@sgi.com
Silicon Graphics http://reality.sgi.com/allan

Vincent Lo

unread,
Oct 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/7/99
to
Because it's you Meg, I'll respond. No I do not think poor people, students
or not, deserve worse service. However think about the following hypothetic
situation:

Let's say you were screamed at and taunted by the crowd around you with
homophobic slurs. Even though you didn't believe in all these hate things,
the first defense you would come up, assuming you were straight, would
probably be "But I'm not a lesbian!" instead of something like "It's not
right to harass people this way, straight or not."

This server probably thought I hardly went to nice restaurants and the only
reason I could go there was the Entertainment Cards.

I get pissed when people mislabel me, especially since good food is
something my whole family have always put on the top priorities in life.

Vincent Lo
v...@cs.stanford.edu

Meg Worley <m...@steam.stanford.edu> wrote in message
news:7tgesr$8...@steam.stanford.edu...


>
> Vincent writes:
> >My friend already warned me beforehand that they looked down on the young
> >Stanford people for some reason, but what happened was a little *too*
rude.
>

> In my experience, the SMC's attitude problem has nothing to
> do with age or university affiliation -- they just stink.
> We took Special K's parents there awhile back, since they
> are of the meat-and-two-veg generation. Man, whatta
> disaster. And I think our meal must have been more
> fortunate than that of our neighbors, as we witnessed
> altercations with the staff on both sides of us. The
> food wasn't especially special either, although the
> martinis weren't bad.
>
> >It's funny he condescended on us so explicitly, when he's talking to
someone
> >who for the past year has been treated to fancy restaurants all over the
> >world, Asia, California, other states. #*!$ I've even been to the French
> >Laundry twice this year, and this idiot treated us like some cheap
students.
>

> I have to say, Vincent, this is unpersuasive. Is there some
> reason I'm unaware of that students, or the thrifty in general,
> deserve worse service than people who have eaten at the FL
> twice this year? Clue me in here, so that I can respond
> appropriately to my own students.
>
>
>

Amalia Freedman

unread,
Oct 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/7/99
to
bizbee wrote:
>
> Yn erthygl <37FBF083...@bah.com>, sgrifenws Amalia Freedman
> <freedma...@bah.com>:

>
> >
> >Okay, this is a pretty sophisticated bunch.
>
> ok, that's two beer soaked screens in one thread..... stop it!

Operating hint for future: swallow before hitting "Next".

Meg Worley

unread,
Oct 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/7/99
to

Vincent had written:

>>>It's funny he condescended on us so explicitly, when he's talking to
>>>someone who for the past year has been treated to fancy restaurants
>>>all over the world, Asia, California, other states. #*!$ I've even
>>>been to the French Laundry twice this year, and this idiot treated
>>>us like some cheap students.

I wrote:
>> I have to say, Vincent, this is unpersuasive. Is there some
>> reason I'm unaware of that students, or the thrifty in general,
>> deserve worse service than people who have eaten at the FL
>> twice this year?

He replies:


>Because it's you Meg, I'll respond.

*blushes* Aw, shucks.

>No I do not think poor people, students or not, deserve worse
>service. However think about the following hypothetic
>situation:
>
>Let's say you were screamed at and taunted by the crowd around you with
>homophobic slurs. Even though you didn't believe in all these hate things,
>the first defense you would come up, assuming you were straight, would
>probably be "But I'm not a lesbian!" instead of something like "It's not
>right to harass people this way, straight or not."

Actually, I wouldn't. An oldtime net.person who died in 1993,
Tovah Hollander, had a great quote that I have made much use
of over the years: I'd rather be mistaken as a lesbian by a
bigot than be mistaken as a bigot by a lesbian.

Nonetheless, I sorta see your point, but it was far from
clear in your original statement, where you came across as
sounding like you thought that because you'd eaten at the
FL twice this year, you should be treated with respect.

>This server probably thought I hardly went to nice restaurants and the only
>reason I could go there was the Entertainment Cards.

Which is still no reason to be disrespectin' no one.

>I get pissed when people mislabel me, especially since good food is
>something my whole family have always put on the top priorities in life.

The Tovah quotation holds here.

Peter L

unread,
Oct 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/7/99
to
bizbee wrote:
>
> Yn erthygl <37FBF083...@bah.com>, sgrifenws Amalia Freedman
> <freedma...@bah.com>:
>
> >
> >Okay, this is a pretty sophisticated bunch.
>
> ok, that's two beer soaked screens in one thread..... stop it!

That's a lot of beer while computing.

Geoff Miller

unread,
Oct 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/7/99
to

Steve Wertz <swe...@lunasco.sco.com> writes:

> Maybe the kids will start bouncing around under the tables.
> I remember a lot of parents that didn't want their kids to
> have [caffeinated] sodas or chocolate and such.


That's a behavior problem (and therefore a disciplinary issue),
not a dietary problem. If the little darlings are instructed to
sit still and be quiet, it won't matter what they eat and drink.

Geoff

--
"Fine. You win." -- Dean Stark capitulates


Geoff Miller

unread,
Oct 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/7/99
to

mcc...@medieval.org (Todd Michel McComb) writes:

> I don't believe soda is healthy, especially for kids.


There's a difference between not being healthy and being
actively harmful.

Geoff Miller

unread,
Oct 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/7/99
to

Icono Clast <ICl...@JPS.Net> writes:

> I agree. I think it's unconscionable for schools to sell sodas
> and other beverages and foods that are commonly known to be
> either unhealthful or of no nutritional value. If they want
> junk food, they can leave the campus to visit the corner grocery.

Why does every single thing a kid puts into his mouth have to be
actively nutritious? Making sure a kid gets proper nutrition is
his parents' responsibility. If he eats well at home, then clearly
a soda or roll of SweeTarts at school isn't going to do any harm.


> If they want junk food, they can leave the campus to visit the
> corner grocery.

And how many schools have open campuses these days?

Peter L

unread,
Oct 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/7/99
to
Schools try to keep kids there, not encourage them to leave. Put junk
food in the cafeteria and keep kids in school, or don't serve junk food
and have kids leaving during lunch hours and may not come back. It's a
tough act. Life is nothing but compromises.

Peter L

unread,
Oct 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/7/99
to
Vincent Lo wrote:
>
> Because it's you Meg, I'll respond. No I do not think poor people, students

> or not, deserve worse service. However think about the following hypothetic
> situation:
>

A little kissing up to the teacher never hurts. Planning on taking some
comp lit classes, Vince?

Yip Yap

unread,
Oct 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/7/99
to
In article <7teta1$kk1$1...@nntp.Stanford.EDU>,
"Vincent Lo" <v...@cs.stanford.edu> wrote:
> Well since so many responded to my cockroach post, I might as well
post some
> ridiculous dining experiences I've had.
>
> This just happened last Sunday at Sundance Mining Restaurant in Palo
Alto.
> I haven't been to the restaurant for some time, and reviews about the
place
> have been mixed.

These folks have a long-standing history of fickle and spotty service.
When their service is bad, it's not worth the $$$ that they charge.

-- Yip


Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.

Dave Thomas

unread,
Oct 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/7/99
to
On 6 Oct 1999 17:54:23 GMT, Steve Wertz <swe...@sco.com> wrote:


>I probably piss off a lot of restaurants this way. I only ever

>drink water with my meal, even at the lowest form of restaurants.
>I prefer water. It's not that I'm so cheap I don't want to pay $1.50
>for 10 ounces of soda or tea, either. Even with my value meals,
>I usually ask for carbonated water (this is course, confuses them).

I'm diabetic, so my drinking choices are usually pretty limited when
I'm out. Often times I'll just get water, and sometimes it does seem
like I'm committing some sort of crime or something at some places.
Hey, I'd happily get rid of this condition if I could, but since I
can't, I suppose I'll have to put up with the occasional almost-hidden
sneer when I say "I'll have water."


Dave Thomas - Editor
Pixel Planet - Reviews Of Stuff
http://www.pixelplanet.com

Cario Lam

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Oct 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/7/99
to
If this is the case, why are they always packed at lunch time? I can never
find a space in the parking lot.

Allan Schaffer wrote:

> -------- Stuff Deleted -------------

Peter L

unread,
Oct 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/7/99
to

I am diabetic too. Even if I am not, drinking only water never seem to
bother any of the restaurants I go to. Sometimes I'll ask for
Peligrino, just for the variety. But I never detect any sneers, hidden
or not.

Peter L

unread,
Oct 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/7/99
to
Same reason why Olive Garden is often voted as one of the top Italian
restaurants in those readers polls.

Todd Michel McComb

unread,
Oct 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/7/99
to
In article <7tigfl$q...@dfw-ixnews14.ix.netcom.com>,

Geoff Miller <geo...@netcom.com> wrote:
>There's a difference between not being healthy and being
>actively harmful.

Sure, but so what? You don't work for the soda industry, I don't
think. I find the whole phenomenon quite perplexing, frankly.
Like Amelia, I don't want a sweet drink with meals. As for the
kids, there are better places they can spend their sugar budget.


Dan Abel

unread,
Oct 7, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/7/99
to
In article <37FC0C67...@JPS.Net>, Icono Clast <ICl...@JPS.Net> wrote:


> I agree. I think it's unconscionable for schools to sell sodas and
> other beverages and foods that are commonly known to be either
> unhealthful or of no nutritional value.

No nutritional value? Try this:

Nutrient Analysis Tool - Analyze Food
Nutri Total Rec. %Rec.
-----------+--------+------+------
Calories 136.08 2200 6.19%
Pro (g) 0 46 0%
Fat (g) 0 73.33 0%
Carb (g) 35.38 -- --
Fiber (g) 0 -- --
Cal (mg) 6.8 1200 0.57%
Iron (mg) 0.34 15 2.27%
Na (mg) 37.42 2000 1.87%
Pot (mg) 3.4 -- --
Phos (mg) 0 1200 0%
Ash (g) 0.34 -- --
vitA (IU) 0 4000 0%
vitC (mg) 0 50 0%
Thia (mg) 0 1.1 0%
Ribo (mg) 0 1.3 0%
Nia (mg) 0.07 15 0.47%
H2O % 89.5 -- --
satF (g) 0 24.44 0%
monoF (g) 0 24.44 0%
polyF (g) 0 24.44 0%
Chol (mg) 0 300 0%

The above is for a 14 year old girl (my daughter).

Now the beer:

Nutrient Analysis Tool - Analyze Food
Nutri Total Rec. %Rec.
-----------+--------+------+------
Calories 139.48 2900 4.81%
Pro (g) 1.02 63 1.62%
Fat (g) 0 96.67 0%
Carb (g) 12.59 -- --
Fiber (g) 0.68 -- --
Cal (mg) 17.01 800 2.13%
Iron (mg) 0 10 0%
Na (mg) 17.01 2000 0.85%
Pot (mg) 85.05 -- --
Phos (mg) 40.82 800 5.10%
Ash (g) 0.34 -- --
vitA (IU) 0 5000 0%
vitC (mg) 0 60 0%
Thia (mg) 0.02 1.5 1.33%
Ribo (mg) 0.09 1.7 5.29%
Nia (mg) 1.53 19 8.05%
H2O % 92.3 -- --
satF (g) 0 32.22 0%
monoF (g) 0 32.22 0%
polyF (g) 0 32.22 0%
Chol (mg) 0 300 0%


The above is for a 49 year old man (me).


I find that things that are "commonly known" are often mostly wrong. What
is a useful nutrient to my daughter (sugar) is not to me, both because I
sit at a desk all day and also because I am a diabetic. My daughter
gained 37 pounds in 13 months. She didn't do that by drinking water!
Before you start thinking about 37 pounds of blubber, she is 5' 5" and 125
pounds. I watched her play soccer a couple of weeks ago. After running
slow and fast for over an hour, she was keyed up because it was a
contentious game. She picked up a team member and carried her around,
cradled in her arms like a baby, for about 10 minutes. I asked her if
that was tiring. She replied that she didn't even notice the weight!

It cracks me up when people get all hyper about kids eating their
vegetables. Adults are the ones who need to eat vegetables. Most kids
get plenty of nutrients if they eat a balanced diet, because they eat so
much more than adults. Even though I outweigh my daughter by 50 pounds,
she eats lots more than I do.

--
Dan Abel
Sonoma State University
AIS
ab...@sonoma.edu
http://www.sonoma.edu/IT/AIS/people/Abel.html

IClast

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Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99
to
geo...@netcom.com (Geoff Miller) wrote:
> Icono Clast <ICl...@JPS.Net> writes:
> > I think it's unconscionable for schools to sell sodas
> > and other beverages and foods that are commonly known to be
> > either unhealthful or of no nutritional value. If they want
> > junk food, they can leave the campus to visit the corner grocery.

> Why does every single thing a kid puts into his mouth have to be
> actively nutritious?

Water isn't nutritious but it's clearly more healthful than a soda or
coffee.

> Making sure a kid gets proper nutrition is
> his parents' responsibility. If he eats well at home, then clearly
> a soda or roll of SweeTarts at school isn't going to do any harm.

Schools are places of learning. By the unavailability of unhealthful or
non-nutritious foods, one can learn what to not eat.

> > If they want junk food, they can leave the campus to visit the
> > corner grocery.

> And how many schools have open campuses these days?

Irrelevant. If the student knows the campus is closed, junk foods can be
acquired from a negligent parent on from a grocery store on the way to
school. I'm saying the schools shouldn't make it avaiable.

If you, as I, spent any time in amusement parks, you'd probably be as
shocked as I by the bodies of today's youth. So many of them are
grotesquely fat slobs that we won't have to worry about them collecting
Social Security or their union pensions.

I, by the way, am getting heavy. But I'm old. Although healthy, I'm
gaining weight in spite of a generally heathful diet and am very unhappy
about it. My problem is an enormous appetite for all that good healthful
food. Yes, I eat junk food, high-fat, -salt, and -sugar foods too, but
it's rare. Gorged on that stuff this week-end while at a dance convntion
but probably sweat most of it off. Well, I hope I did.

--
Icono Clast -- A San Franciscan posting from San Francisco.

IClast

unread,
Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99
to
I don't understand, Dan. Are the charts you posted of the same beverage
for different people with different nutritional needs? If so, what are
the beverages?

ab...@sonoma.edu (Dan Abel) wrote:

> It cracks me up when people get all hyper about kids eating their
> vegetables. Adults are the ones who need to eat vegetables. Most
kids
> get plenty of nutrients if they eat a balanced diet,

Indeed they do. But that's an enormous "if" in the sentence above.

> because they eat
so
> much more than adults. Even though I outweigh my daughter by 50
pounds,
> she eats lots more than I do.

> In article <37FC0C67...@JPS.Net>, Icono Clast <ICl...@JPS.Net>
wrote:


> > I think it's unconscionable for schools to sell sodas and
> > other beverages and foods that are commonly known to be either
> > unhealthful or of no nutritional value.
>

--

Dan Abel

unread,
Oct 11, 1999, 3:00:00 AM10/11/99
to
In article <7tsfvv$k7b$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, IClast <ICl...@JPS.net> wrote:

> I don't understand, Dan. Are the charts you posted of the same beverage
> for different people with different nutritional needs? If so, what are
> the beverages?
>
> ab...@sonoma.edu (Dan Abel) wrote:


Sorry. The first list below is 12oz of lemon-lime soda.

> > No nutritional value? Try this:
> >
> > Nutrient Analysis Tool - Analyze Food
> > Nutri Total Rec. %Rec.
> > -----------+--------+------+------
> > Calories 136.08 2200 6.19%

> > The above is for a 14 year old girl (my daughter).
> >
> > Now the beer:

^^^^
This is also 12oz, but beer.

> >
> > Nutrient Analysis Tool - Analyze Food
> > Nutri Total Rec. %Rec.
> > -----------+--------+------+------
> > Calories 139.48 2900 4.81%

> > The above is for a 49 year old man (me).

--

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