Fry's Electronics Spots
John Higdon
everywhere EXCEPT KGO? I don't believe I have ever heard one single Fry's
spot on that station, ever.
Given the possibilities in the universe of reasons for that state, my
curiosity is beginning overtime sessions.
Someone lurking around here MUST know. Please don't force me to engage in
conversation with salestypes at one of my stations!
--
John Higdon | P.O. Box 7648 | +1 408 264 4115 | FAX:
| San Jose, CA 95150 | +1 500 FOR-A-MOO |+1 408 264 4407
ab...@ati.com | http://www.ati.com
David Gleason
John Higdon wrote in message ...
>Does anyone know why Fry's Electronics seems to advertise almost
>everywhere EXCEPT KGO? I don't believe I have ever heard one single Fry's
>spot on that station, ever.
>
>Given the possibilities in the universe of reasons for that state, my
>curiosity is beginning overtime sessions.
>
>Someone lurking around here MUST know. Please don't force me to engage in
>conversation with salestypes at one of my stations!
There are a lot of places that Frys does not advertise. In LA, the entire
top 3 radio stations (KLVE,KSCA, KLAX) are in Spanish. Frys has 5 LA area
stores, all of which are in neighborhoods or areas that are very Hispanic.
Yet Frys does not advertise on any of those three stations.
In the case of KGO, I'd bet that one of two things happens: Frys can't get
KGO to cut rates or Fry's does not like to advertise on talk stations (this
is only too common).
John Higdon
<davidg...@sprintmail.com> wrote:
> In the case of KGO, I'd bet that one of two things happens: Frys can't get
> KGO to cut rates or Fry's does not like to advertise on talk stations (this
> is only too common).
Right after the posting, I was on the phone with someone from a station
that does carry the spots. The word I got was that KGO is too expensive
(your reason #1 above). I pointed out that Fry's was on KCBS and was
reminded that KCBS is cheaper than KGO.
If true, this raises another question: how do these investment and health
scams afford to advertise on KGO? Apparently there is more money in those
things than I had imagined.
PeterH5322
>>
In the case of KGO, I'd bet that one of two things happens: Frys can't get KGO
to cut rates or Fry's does not like to advertise on talk stations (this is only
too common).
>>
Randy Fry is one of the most secretive of corporate presidents.
Likely, he hasn't shared his advertising philosophy with even his top
lieutenants.
One thing is for sure ... Fry's ads tend to depend on visual cues (especially
"Charly Fry ... er, Chip", the Fry's mascot), and KGO isn't exactly capable of
supporting those visual cues.
Another possibility is Fry's did an "audio proof" of KGO's transmission system
and it couldn't pass the "Your best buys are always ... ZAP ZAP ZAP ... at
Fry's" test, wherein the ZAPs are expected to be passed with high fidelity so
as to maximally assault the listener's ears.
But equally likely is KGO wouldn't give Randy the payment terms he wanted ...
perhaps 50 percent, 180 days.
John Higdon
peter...@aol.com (PeterH5322) wrote:
> But equally likely is KGO wouldn't give Randy the payment terms he wanted ...
> perhaps 50 percent, 180 days.
This seems the most likely. For what it's worth, let a radio station have
its store account approach 30 days and Fry's will turn it off faster than
you can say "zap--zap--zap". I don't know how much time I have wasted
while the front counter people run around only to find that the station's
account is on "hold".
I recall accompanying a local chief into the Brokaw store and watched as
an orchestra of incompetent salesfolks, sales counter personnel and stock
droids wasted an hour of his time. Finally, he asked to see the store
manager. The chief expressed his sentiments on never shopping at the store
again, to which the manager replied, "Yeah, well I'll just have a talk
with your boss over at the station. I'm not too worried." This is NOT
urban legend; I witnessed this for myself.
In any event, the likely explanation is that KGO will not give its spots
away and makes Fry's get to the back of the line just like everyone else.
I suspect Randy Fry doesn't play that way.
PeterH5322
>>
... "Yeah, well I'll just have a talk with your boss over at the station. I'm
not too worried." This is NOT urban legend; I witnessed this for myself.
>>
Fry's Electronics comes closer to Lilly Tomlin's characterization of the phone
company ... "We don't care, we don't have to" ... than does the phone company
itself.
The web page ...
http://www.crl.com/~jnelson/nauseam/verbage/seven.htm
... adequately details all the horse sh*t that Fry's expects it's customers to
put up with, adequately illustrated with actual buyer's experiences in
excruciating detail.
One of the funniest things I've personally witnessed at Fry's was a so-called
"loss prevention specialist" filling out a special form titled "Request for
Loss Prevention Award".
Since most losses at retailers are (reportedly) due to employee theft, it would
seem that most individuals disclosed in the "Request for Loss Prevention Award"
forms would in fact be Fry's employees.
Oh, well.
Alan Kline
>
> Does anyone know why Fry's Electronics seems to advertise almost
> everywhere EXCEPT KGO? I don't believe I have ever heard one single Fry's
> spot on that station, ever.
Gee, John, as much as you (justifiably) slam KGO, why are you
surprised? Might mean that Fry's cares, at least a little,
about the stations they're associated with...
David Kaye
" Fry's Electronics comes closer to Lilly Tomlin's characterization of the phone
" company ... "We don't care, we don't have to" ... than does the phone company
" itself.
This is where CompuTown comes in. I've had excellent service by
knowledgeable people and at prices lower than either CompUSA or Fry's.
I'm sure there are other smaller computer retailers out there, so that
people don't have to shop at either Fry's or CompUSA.
--
(C) 1999 The Chicago World's Fair of 1893 was the birthplace of
David Kaye Cracker Jack, A-1 Steak Sauce, and the Ferris wheel
dk at wco.com
PeterH5322
>>
I'm sure there are other smaller computer retailers out there, so that people
don't have to shop at either Fry's or CompUSA.
>>
ComputerWare, if you're a Mac user.
Eric Weaver
Also MicroCenter, off 101 adjacent to Mission College. Had a Mac-formatted
hard disk for what Fry's was charging for a blank one. And their sales staff
were pretty clueful.
--
Eric C. Weaver we...@sigma.net
-- Your message here -- reasonable rates -- inquire above --
John Higdon
<d...@removethis.wco.com> wrote:
> This is where CompuTown comes in. I've had excellent service by
> knowledgeable people and at prices lower than either CompUSA or Fry's.
> I'm sure there are other smaller computer retailers out there, so that
> people don't have to shop at either Fry's or CompUSA.
Indeed there are. One of the best places to buy "a computer" that has been
built up to your specification is from any one of dozens and dozens of
hole-in-the-wall computer stores. These guys are much more accomodating,
have cheaper prices, yet install from the same base of clone and namebrand
parts used to create anything you would buy at Fry's. Such a place exists
just blocks from my home, and managed to set me up with a system just the
way I wanted it within hours--on a Saturday. It was so much better than
the Fry's experience, and I saved a couple hundred bucks.
Having weaned myself from Fry's, I now go to ComputerWare and Microcenter
for Mac stuff, Central Computer for oddities such as 8mm tapes, and any of
a half-dozen other places for clone components. The payoff: better
service, cheaper prices, and my hearing preserved. Gone is the pushing and
shoving, the constant yelling over the PA, and every boombox in the store
turned up full.
If one listened only to KGO, he would be blissfully unaware that the Fry's
hell even existed.
keeth...@keethie.net
>MicroCenter, off 101 adjacent to Mission College. Had a Mac-formatted
>hard disk for what Fry's was charging for a blank one. And their sales staff
>were pretty clueful.
>
>--
>Eric C. Weaver we...@sigma.net
> -- Your message here -- reasonable rates -- inquire above --
Hmmm. The same place recommended twice in the same thread...by Higdon and
Weaver; people who write respectable articles. Word of mouth has taken a
very good turn. MicroCenter for my next shopping trip.
--
Remove DRAT in reply to that
David Gleason
John Higdon wrote in message ...
>shoving, the constant yelling over the PA, and every boombox in the store
>turned up full.
No, not quite accurate. The boomboxes that are still in their cartons are
stacked deep and wide in the middle of the aisle you want to go through, so
you are forced to shove by the kids on the Doom XVII demo kiosk on one side
or squeeze between fat women looking at the Dilbert T-shirts on the other.
Bill rUCK
> Having weaned myself from Fry's, I now go to ComputerWare and Microcenter
> for Mac stuff, Central Computer for oddities such as 8mm tapes, and any
of
> a half-dozen other places for clone components. The payoff: better
> service, cheaper prices, and my hearing preserved.
Amen to the above. Central Computer consistently provides good service and
fair prices. Be a little careful about the "hole in the wall" computer
stores. I've heard stories about some of them that aren't too
complementary. But probably still better than Fry's.
True story. One day someone I know wanted to buy some backup tapes and got
a whole case of like 50. The doofus at the counter rang it up as "one
tape" not a whole case. So Fry's does pay a penalty for their illiterate
counter help.
There is also a "Fry's Employment Application Form" that is a scream, but I
can't find it right now.
Unfortunately if you need generic electronic parts on a Saturday or Sunday
and Radio Shack doesn't have it Fry's is the only other choice any more.
And I hate giving them any of my money.
Bill Ruck
John Higdon
<br...@ricochet.net> wrote:
> True story. One day someone I know wanted to buy some backup tapes and got
> a whole case of like 50. The doofus at the counter rang it up as "one
> tape" not a whole case. So Fry's does pay a penalty for their illiterate
> counter help.
Yes! I appeared at the counter with a box of 10 DAT cassettes. The unit
price was showing on the outer box but the tapes themselves were unmarked.
I carefully explained to the clerk that the purchase was "quantity: 10" at
the marked price, but he insisted that the price on the box was for the
entire box. I disagreed and insisted that he check with someone. He came
back looking somewhat smug and restated his assertion that the price on
the box was for the boxfull of tapes. Another futile exchange ensued,
after which I exited the store with ten DATs for about twelve bucks.
Hey--I tried.
PeterH5322
Bill Ruck reports:
>>
There is also a "Fry's Employment Application Form" that is a scream, but I
can't find it right now.
>>
I believe this is precisely the same form as the "Fry's Loss Prevention Award
Application Form" mentioned in an earlier post.
John Higdon
peter...@aol.com (PeterH5322) wrote:
> I believe this is precisely the same form as the "Fry's Loss Prevention Award
> Application Form" mentioned in an earlier post.
The Fry's Employment Application that I saw had questions such as:
"English is a) my third language; b) my fourth language; c) what is English?
"Level of education a) Grammar school graduate; b) Middle school graduate
c) school of Hard Knox continuation courses."
It was about two pages long and it was a riot.
PeterH5322
>>
... Another futile exchange ensued, after which I exited the store with ten
DATs for about twelve bucks.
Hey--I tried.
>>
True Story.
I purchased a *pair* of stereo speakers at a well-know consumer electronics
store ... it might have been Circuit Shitty, but don't quote me.
The unit of sale was clearly identified in the manufacturer's sales literature
as *per pair*.
The C.S. salesman unpacked the two speakers from the *single* shipping carton
and demonstrated that he speakers were not damaged during shipment.
Then the C.S. salesman made a "quote" on the computer.
Then the C.S. salesman's manager checked the "quote".
Then the C.S. cashier sold the speakers to me based on the "quote" which had
been prepared by the C.S. salesman and checked by the C.S. salesman's manager.
I left the store with my purchase.
About 30 minutes after returning home, the C.S. manager phoned me and said a
mistake had been made and I was only charged for one speaker, so would I kindly
come back to the store and pay for the second speaker.
I almost bought that line, except for the fact that three C.S. personnel had
checked the "quote" and the apparent discrepency wasn't caught by any of them.
I sent Circuit Shitty (or whoever it was) a sternly worded letter refusing to
"pay for the other speaker" as C.S.'s personnel had three opportunities to
correct their mistakes.
I doubt if they ever checked to verify that those speakers were packaged and
intended to be sold by the manufacturer as a *pair*.
I wonder how many customers had been paying double for those speakers?
radio...@hotmail.com
ab...@bovine.ati.com (John Higdon) wrote:
> Indeed there are. One of the best places to buy "a computer" that has been
> built up to your specification is from any one of dozens and dozens of
> hole-in-the-wall computer stores. These guys are much more accomodating,
> have cheaper prices, yet install from the same base of clone and namebrand
> parts used to create anything you would buy at Fry's. Such a place exists
> just blocks from my home, and managed to set me up with a system just the
> way I wanted it within hours--on a Saturday. It was so much better than
> the Fry's experience, and I saved a couple hundred bucks.
John, if you're looking for good service, there's a little hole-in-the-wall
computer store called CyberTek Computer at the corner of Camden and Leigh. I
purchased an good Fujitsu 6.4 gig HD with a complete return guarantee for less
money than Fry's wanted for an el-cheapo model with NO return guarantee. I
also bought a name-brand 64meg DIMM that was about the same price as Fry's
"generic memory".
The moral of the story... I've decided that I will (ZAP! ZAP! ZAP!) NEEEVVER
buy from Fry's again.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
radio...@hotmail.com
> <br...@ricochet.net> wrote:
>
> > True story. One day someone I know wanted to buy some backup tapes and got
> > a whole case of like 50. The doofus at the counter rang it up as "one
> > tape" not a whole case. So Fry's does pay a penalty for their illiterate
> > counter help.
>
> Yes! I appeared at the counter with a box of 10 DAT cassettes. The unit
> price was showing on the outer box but the tapes themselves were unmarked.
> I carefully explained to the clerk that the purchase was "quantity: 10" at
> the marked price, but he insisted that the price on the box was for the
> entire box. I disagreed and insisted that he check with someone. He came
> back looking somewhat smug and restated his assertion that the price on
> after which I exited the store with ten DATs for about twelve bucks.
>
> Hey--I tried.
Reminds me of the time I bought a mouse at Fry's for $1.50. I came back a few
days later and they were marked $11.50. I should have bought 15. Oh well.
radio...@hotmail.com
peter...@aol.com (PeterH5322) wrote:
Just another example of the high school dropout idiots that work at these
places. I sometimes wonder where they find such stupid people.
Tim May
<351E323D65ED970D.B468C518...@library-proxy.airnews.net>,
toml...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> On Sun, 07 Mar 1999 12:33:57 -0800, John Higdon <ab...@bovine.ati.com> wrote:
> >
> >Yes! I appeared at the counter with a box of 10 DAT cassettes. The unit
> >price was showing on the outer box but the tapes themselves were unmarked.
> >I carefully explained to the clerk that the purchase was "quantity: 10" at
> >the marked price, but he insisted that the price on the box was for the
> >entire box. I disagreed and insisted that he check with someone. He came
> >back looking somewhat smug and restated his assertion that the price on
> >the box was for the boxfull of tapes. Another futile exchange ensued,
> >after which I exited the store with ten DATs for about twelve bucks.
> >
> >Hey--I tried.
>
> Last time I was in Fry's, they had a 3-pack of blank Zip Disks which cost
> more than 3 single blank Zip disks. I guess you pay more for the
> packaging.
>
> They're none too bright in the pricing department. Next time you're
> looking for something, look around and check all the items on the shelf.
> You may save yourself some money. I saved $40 this way when buying an
> external modem. Same make, same model.
I gave up on trying to "do the right thing" on prices about 20 years ago.
After having machines eat my money, having stores make mistakes which I
didn't catch until later (and which the stores would not correct), I
learned to treat all store pricing errors as "Gifts from the Payback God."
Those who correct underpricings are lost.
--Tim May
--
Y2K: Hope for the best, prepare for the worst, enjoy it in any case
---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:---------:----
Timothy C. May | Crypto Anarchy: encryption, digital money,
ComSec 3DES: 831-728-0152 | anonymous networks, digital pseudonyms, zero
W.A.S.T.E.: Corralitos, CA | knowledge, reputations, information markets,
Licensed Ontologist | black markets, collapse of governments.
Dan Berkes
>True story. One day someone I know wanted to buy some backup tapes and got
>a whole case of like 50. The doofus at the counter rang it up as "one
>tape" not a whole case. So Fry's does pay a penalty for their illiterate
>counter help.
Indeed.
At one time, Fry's had Zip disks - packs of three for $44, or buy each disk
seperatley for $11[*]. Although I've got to say that since I'm now living in
a part of the country that has nothing that even remotely resembles Fry's...
I miss the place.
[*] Damned if I can remember the actual prices, but these figures are as
close as I can recall, and there was about a $10 difference between the
3-pack and buying three single disks.
--Dan
--
Dan Berkes - http://www.galenaweb.com
ReMOOve the cow to reply via email
PinkPols - It's Always November on the Internet
http://www.galenaweb.com/pinkpols
9NETAVE - forgers, spammers, and liars.
Tom Lemos
>
>Yes! I appeared at the counter with a box of 10 DAT cassettes. The unit
>price was showing on the outer box but the tapes themselves were unmarked.
>I carefully explained to the clerk that the purchase was "quantity: 10" at
>the marked price, but he insisted that the price on the box was for the
>entire box. I disagreed and insisted that he check with someone. He came
>back looking somewhat smug and restated his assertion that the price on
>the box was for the boxfull of tapes. Another futile exchange ensued,
>after which I exited the store with ten DATs for about twelve bucks.
>
>Hey--I tried.
Last time I was in Fry's, they had a 3-pack of blank Zip Disks which cost
more than 3 single blank Zip disks. I guess you pay more for the
packaging.
They're none too bright in the pricing department. Next time you're
looking for something, look around and check all the items on the shelf.
You may save yourself some money. I saved $40 this way when buying an
external modem. Same make, same model.
--
Tom Lemos (toml...@my-dejanews.com) http://www.webcom.com/tomlemos/
Galena, IL 61036 http://www.galenaweb.com/
"Some women hold up dresses that are so ugly and they always say the same
thing: 'This looks much better on.' On what? On fire?" -- Marsha Warfield
Eric Weaver
>
> Hmmm. The same place recommended twice in the same thread...by Higdon and
> Weaver; people who write respectable articles. Word of mouth has taken a
> very good turn. MicroCenter for my next shopping trip.
Accuse me of writing "respectable" articles again and I'll have to
put you on spam lists!
Mitch Sako
: In the case of KGO, I'd bet that one of two things happens: Frys can't get KGO
: to cut rates or Fry's does not like to advertise on talk stations (this is only
: too common).
: Randy Fry is one of the most secretive of corporate presidents.
Last time I checked, Randy Fry is a VP and his brother John is
president.
--
------------------------------------------------------
"There are no stupid questions, just stupid people who
ask questions." - Chris Berman
PeterH5322
>>
They're none too bright in the pricing department. Next time you're looking for
something, look around and check all the items on the shelf. You may save
yourself some money.
>>
The classic farkle-up is the stocker will miss-mark a whole bunch of items with
the wrong PLU.
The checker will often use the Fry's PLU rather than the bar-code.
If they use the bogus PLU, then you've just made yourself some money.
Returns may be difficult, however.
PeterH5322
>>
Last time I checked, Randy Fry is a VP and his brother John is president.
>>
Whatever.
As corporate officers, they're still scum.
David Kaye
" I gave up on trying to "do the right thing" on prices about 20 years ago.
Why doesn't this surprise me?
Knowing that many retail stores operate on thin margins, and desiring to
see my favorite store continue in existence, I always call attention to
wrong prices. But then, I've always been one for doing the right thing.
" Those who correct underpricings are lost.
Figures. It just figures.
--
(C) 1999 [This space intentionally left blank]
David Kaye
dk at wco.com
Michael Bender
: >>
: They're none too bright in the pricing department. Next time you're looking for
This is something I have always wondered about - why are the Fry's checkout
terminals so antiquated - no bar code readers for example? And why are the
checkout people at Fry's almost universally unable to speak English and
seemingly people that are just not very bright?
mike
--
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Bender E-Mail: Michael...@eng.sun.com
Sun Microsystems Laboratories, Inc. Tel: 650-336-2955
901 San Antonio Road Tel Pager: 888-423-9066
Palo Alto, CA 94303-4900 URL Pager: http://www.skytel.com/Paging/
Mailstop: MTV29-110 Pager PIN: 4239066
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Bender
: Tim May wrote the quoted material below:
: " I gave up on trying to "do the right thing" on prices about 20 years ago.
: Why doesn't this surprise me?
: Knowing that many retail stores operate on thin margins, and desiring to
: see my favorite store continue in existence, I always call attention to
: wrong prices. But then, I've always been one for doing the right thing.
There is a difference between "my favorite store" and Fry's - the latter
believes that "customer service" consists soley of providing a breathable
atmosphere in the store.
Eric Weaver
> There is a difference between "my favorite store" and Fry's - the latter
> believes that "customer service" consists soley of providing a breathable
> atmosphere in the store.
Really? Which store provides a breathable atmosphere? The other day at
Palo Alto I had to bring my SCUBA gear...
Tim May
> PeterH5322 (peter...@aol.com) wrote:
> : In the case of KGO, I'd bet that one of two things happens: Frys can't
get KGO
> : to cut rates or Fry's does not like to advertise on talk stations
(this is only
> : too common).
> : Randy Fry is one of the most secretive of corporate presidents.
>
> Last time I checked, Randy Fry is a VP and his brother John is
> president.
I used to run into John, the reddish-haired one, at the original store in
Sunnyvale. Back around 1984 or '85. Haven't seen him in many years, which
isn't surprising.
Tim May
Bender) wrote:
> This is something I have always wondered about - why are the Fry's checkout
> terminals so antiquated - no bar code readers for example? And why are the
> checkout people at Fry's almost universally unable to speak English and
> seemingly people that are just not very bright?
>
1. They are mostly Ethiopians...I'm not joking.
2. See the "Fry's Employment Application" spoof that was floating around a
while back. Search engines and/or DejaNews should turn it up. Just what
kind of brightness would one expect for $6 an hour in this booming
economy?
3. I bought a laptop in 1990 from the original Sunnyvale store, and the
bill of sale was a Xeroxed form that looked like it had been hand-printed.
They used this BOS for several years.
4. Again, they are mostly Ethiopians. Could be they were malnourished.
Phil Kane
> They're none too bright in the pricing department. Next time you're
> looking for something, look around and check all the items on the shelf.
> You may save yourself some money. I saved $40 this way when buying an
> external modem. Same make, same model.
Also check out whether you are getting a re-shrink-wrapped
package -- they don't bother to send the defective returns back
to the suppliers.
=== PMK ===
John Higdon
"Phil Kane" <philkane [at] commlawcenter [dot] com> wrote:
> Also check out whether you are getting a re-shrink-wrapped
> package -- they don't bother to send the defective returns back
> to the suppliers.
That is true. What Fry's appears to do is sell the item over and over
until it is un-rewrappable--then they throw it away. The law of averages
dictates that many defective items will land with customers who won't
bother to return them.
There are pitfalls with this approach. One of them is "defective item
buildup". Several years ago, I was working on a project that required ten
NICs. Out of ten SMC cards purchased from Fry's, six were defective. Four
of those bore the Sticker of Death. Those six were exchanged for six more.
Half of those were defective. Through an iterative process, we were able
to obtain all ten cards.
When shopping at Fry's, ALWAYS avoid the Sticker of Death ("Repacked and
Inspected by Fry's Quality Assurance Team). Of course, that is no
guarantee that you are avoiding repackaged material, but it does improve
your odds. It is only when you get home that you can discover that the
floppies have become unsealed, or other internal packaging is not intact.
Sometimes one gets the impression that everything in the store is broken
and repackaged.
PeterH5322
Phil reports:
>>
Also check out whether you are getting a re shrink-wrapped package -- they
don't bother to send the defective returns back to the suppliers.
>>
Fry's does virtually NO incoming inspection on returns.
A defective DRAM SIMM may go directly back to stock.
A rule-of-thumb at Fry's is to check the open stock for returned goods (they're
re-wrapped and have a Fry's Returned sticker on them).
If the item you're interested in has a significant number (more that a few)
returned items, then don't buy that product at all, even if it hasn't been
"deflowered" by a custmer ... move on to another, functionally compatible
product.
Tim May
(John Higdon) wrote:
> In article <cuvyxnarpbzzynjpragr...@nntp1.ba.best.com>,
> "Phil Kane" <philkane [at] commlawcenter [dot] com> wrote:
>
> > Also check out whether you are getting a re-shrink-wrapped
> > package -- they don't bother to send the defective returns back
> > to the suppliers.
>
> That is true. What Fry's appears to do is sell the item over and over
> until it is un-rewrappable--then they throw it away. The law of averages
> dictates that many defective items will land with customers who won't
> bother to return them.
>
> There are pitfalls with this approach. One of them is "defective item
> buildup". Several years ago, I was working on a project that required ten
> NICs. Out of ten SMC cards purchased from Fry's, six were defective. Four
> of those bore the Sticker of Death. Those six were exchanged for six more.
> Half of those were defective. Through an iterative process, we were able
> to obtain all ten cards.
I recently went to Fry's to purchase a Casio LCD television, one of the
small, portable ones. All five boxes they had in stock were sloppily taped
shut, covered with red stickers with writing on them, etc. While they may
have just been "returns," I decided not to purchase one of them.
In defense of Fry's, though, much of the problem lies with overly liberal
return policies. Many customers buy something, get buyer's remorse a day
or two later, and then expect to be able to return it. (And women's stores
routinely deal with garments returned by customers who apparently wore the
garment to the party for which they bought the dress, then returned it,
sweat stains and all.)
John Higdon
peter...@aol.com (PeterH5322) wrote:
> A rule-of-thumb at Fry's is to check the open stock for returned goods
(they're
> re-wrapped and have a Fry's Returned sticker on them).
But not always. That's their little secret. You see those Stickers of
Death and you automatically assume that if you buy something without it,
you are safe. Not so.
Some time back, I bought a removable media drive. It was fully
shrinkwrapped without a Sticker of Death. It looked to be Factory Fresh.
When I unpacked it, I found the cables haphazardly wadded up, the software
media (floppies) rattling loose in side the box--not in a sealed envelope,
and a connector missing.
> If the item you're interested in has a significant number (more that a few)
> returned items, then don't buy that product at all, even if it hasn't been
> "deflowered" by a custmer ... move on to another, functionally compatible
> product.
On the third trip to obtain one of those drives, I finally told the floor
screw that I would open each and every one until I found one with sealed
media inside. To my surprise, he agreed. We opened no less than five boxes
before finding one that had the proper paper envelope with the discs
sealed inside.
The place is sleazier than a Bankok bazzar. It is not uncommon to find
picked-over piles of merchandise that have nothing but partially opened or
banged up boxes remaining on the display--the sort of stuff no
self-respecting retailer would have even on an "as-is" shelf.
Perhaps KGO is inadvertently showing class by not carring Fry's spots.
John Higdon
<d...@removethis.wco.com> wrote:
> My favorite store doesn't sell junk-box off-brand items, doesn't hire
> incompetent sales clerks, and doesn't frisk me at the door on the way out.
> My faorite store treats me right. This is why I continue to do business
> with CompuTown. And, as long as they treat me right, they'll have my
> business.
A word about the "cavity search": it is avoidable. Simply wait until one
or more persons are queued up then briskly, with purpose walk around the
entire production. No one will say a word. The more people "in line", the
better.
A radio engineer friend and I have a running "can you top this" at Fry's.
The object is to see who can get out the door with the most stuff (paid
for, of course) without submitting in any way to the door Nazi. My friend
currently holds the title:
We were in the Brokaw store buying tons of stuff for the radio station
such as monitors and printers. It amounted to a large cartfull piled over
our heads. There were few people in line at the exit door. I suggested
that he was going to finally have to submit to the door screw. "Dinner
tonight?", he challenged. I agreed.
He pushed the cart to the exit area to wait for another search victim.
Then at just the right moment, pushed this massive stack of computer
equipment past the door checker. "Sir, I need to check your receipt."
Without pausing, my friend said, "Oh, that's OK. I already checked it."
I bought dinner at The Cats.
John B. Tefertiller
with no lights on. I've been complaining about the "Radio Shack gene pool"
for years.
radio...@hotmail.com wrote in message <7bv213$o8e$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
keeth...@keethie.net
>My favorite store doesn't sell junk-box off-brand items, doesn't hire
>incompetent sales clerks, and doesn't frisk me at the door on the way out.
<rant>
You know, I find it hard to believe that people actually put up with this.
My wife thought you HAD to comply. I told her to just say no and walk out.
If they ever physically interfere in any way with her egress from the
store (they won't), they better have a good reason or a good team of
lawyers.
Jesus! To think that in this hurry-up, impatience-is-a-virtue area, people
will actually stand in line to have their parcels searched before they
leave a store. Insane. I NEVER let Fry's touch me or my packages before I
leave, EVER. I wish *everyone* would stop letting them do that; it's a
stunningly offensive personal violation. I've walked past exit lines in
the Campbell store, muttering "Baaa...baaaa" (my wife cracked up when I
told her about that).
What's next, strip searches? Rectal probes? Bizarre.
</rant>
--
Remove DRAT in reply to that
keeth...@keethie.net
>A word about the "cavity search": it is avoidable.
Sure is. I just look 'em straight in the eye as I walk past and--if words
are necessary--say, "No, thank you." Usually, my gaze says it all. I will
brook no interference with my departure. Period.
If they attempt to physically detain me without cause, there will be an
altercation, and I will have grounds for an eminently winnable lawsuit.
The guards know it, the Fry family knows it and the courts know it.
I wish all every single Fry's customer knew it, too.
John Higdon
> On the other hand, I recently purchased the very pricey Panasonic portable
> DVD player with the flip-up, 16:9 LCD screen.
Oh, green with envy!
> Since it was a household Christmas present, I didn't look at it until my
> S.O. opened it on Christmas. I found it all there, properly packed and
> completely functional.
>
> I have the same problems with Fry's as everyone else, but sometimes you
> luck out.
Oddly enough, those few times when I have knowingly purchased "unsealed"
merchandise at Fry's (and had the salesfolks candidly admit that the
merchandise was not exactly factory fresh), there has been no problem
whatsoever. There has got to be a universal principle here somewhere.
David Kaye
" There is a difference between "my favorite store" and Fry's - the latter
" believes that "customer service" consists soley of providing a breathable
" atmosphere in the store.
I guess my original reply to this didn't make it here. Allow me to
reiterate: There is a difference between my favorite store and Fry's.
My favorite store doesn't sell junk-box off-brand items, doesn't hire
incompetent sales clerks, and doesn't frisk me at the door on the way out.
My faorite store treats me right. This is why I continue to do business
with CompuTown. And, as long as they treat me right, they'll have my
business.
--
(C) 1999 In "Gone with the Wind" co-star Clark Gable made
David Kaye $120,000; star Vivien Leigh made only $25,000
dk at wco.com
PeterH5322
>>
In defense of Fry's, though, much of the problem lies with overly liberal
return policies.
>>
Partly true.
In many cases, the "Sticker of Death" was foretold by the Fry's buyers when
they selected the products in the first place.
All those UMAX scanners with the "Stickers of Death" are mainly due to:
1) hardware compatibility problems with the half-assed Adaptec clone SCSI card
for the PC versions, and
2) software compatibility problems with the half-assed Photoshop plug-in for
the Mac versions.
I short-circuited the "Sticker of Death" by buying an Agfa scanner.
Michael Bender
: Michael Bender wrote:
: > There is a difference between "my favorite store" and Fry's - the latter
: > believes that "customer service" consists soley of providing a breathable
: > atmosphere in the store.
: Really? Which store provides a breathable atmosphere? The other day at
: Palo Alto I had to bring my SCUBA gear...
OK, OK, I'll admit that "breathable atmosphere" was a bit of an exaggeration -
I should have just said that they provide "an atmopsphere".
PeterH5322
>>
But not always. That's their little secret. You see those Stickers of
Death and you automatically assume that if you buy something without it,
you are safe. Not so.
>>
If I observe a significant number of "Stickers of Death", then I avoid the
entire product ... whether "Stickers of Death" are affixed, or not.
It indicates a potentially fatally flawed product.
I'll let someone else deal with the flaws.
PeterH5322
>>
Perhaps KGO is inadvertently showing class by not carring Fry's spots.
>>
Hmmm.
John, I think you've got something there.
norm...@pacbell.net
DVD player with the flip-up, 16:9 LCD screen.
At the Sunnyvale store, I accepted a unit which they admitted was a return,
when they threw in a couple of discs.
Since it was a household Christmas present, I didn't look at it until my
S.O. opened it on Christmas. I found it all there, properly packed and
completely functional.
I have the same problems with Fry's as everyone else, but sometimes you
luck out.
Norm Howard
tc...@got.net (Tim May) wrotf:
>I recently went to Fry's to purchase a Casio LCD television, one of the
>small, portable ones. All five boxes they had in stock were sloppily taped
>shut, covered with red stickers with writing on them, etc. While they may
>have just been "returns," I decided not to purchase one of them.
>
>In defense of Fry's, though, much of the problem lies with overly liberal
Alan Kline
http://www.wap.org/ifaq/computers/frysapplication.html
Fry's Electronics Employment Application
Note: Fry's is a Silicon Valley electronics chain noted for its
high-tech clientele and eclectic
selection of -- stuff.
Name: _____________
_
Address: |_| YMCA
|_| Halfway House
|_| Cardboard Box on Page Mill Road
|_| None of the Above
City: _____________
Phone: 011+____________
_
Education: |_| Some Grammar School
|_| 8th Grade
|_| Some High School
|_| Umm... "Self-Taught"
|_| Watched Lots of TV
IQ: _
_
Position: |_| Customer Service Associate
|_| Surly Sales
|_| Today's Floor Supervisor
|_| Door Nazi
|_| The guy who gets the RAM out of the case locked with
Kryptonite Bolts (just in case Superman comes in).
=====================================================================
CASHIERING POSITIONS
_
English is your |_| second language.
|_| third
|_| forth
You are at a register and the customer's total is $6.31. The
customer hands you a $10.00 bill. You should...
_
|_| Have the customer wait while you call the Federal Reserve to
make sure the bill is good.
_
|_| Mumble, "Customer service..." and stare vacantly into space
while waiting for your supervisor.
_
|_| Yell out, "Check approval please!"
_
|_| All of the above.
A customer picks up a can of soda but decides he doesn't want it
while at the register. You...
_
|_| Call Sunnyvale to double-check his resale number.
_
|_| Call Pepsi to check the expiration date on the soda.
_
|_| Refuse to return it because he doesn't have a receipt.
_
|_| All of the above.
=====================================================================
COMPUTER OR SOFTWARE SALES
A customer approaches you on the floor and asks how much memory you
need to run Windows `95. You...
_
|_| Pretend you don't hear him and walk briskly into the next aisle.
_
|_| Continue to stare blankly into space.
_
|_| Blurt out the first number that comes into your head
_
|_| Say, "Can't you see I'm helping another customer?!" and run off
to the backroom to smoke a cigarette.
You pick up the ringing phone, expecting to hear your girlfriend
and/or mother. A customer asks if you have Photoshop 3.05 for
Windows in stock. You...
_
|_| Blurt, "Certainly!" in a loud voice, while checking your teeth
in the reflection from your suitcoat and trying to remember if
you hid the last copy well enough.
_
|_| Snarl, "Not my department!" into the receiver and slam down the
phone.
_
|_| Play a game with the other clerks to see who can get a caller to
hold the longest by offering to "Check the Fremont store."
_
|_| Explain how you're really a software developer, and that your
Visual Basic version "Fotoshop" is really far superior and only
slightly more expensive.
=====================================================================
AUDIO/VISUAL SALES
A kindly older gentleman asks to purchase the 13" TV that was
advertised in the morning paper for $99, a gift for his
grand-daughter's college dorm room. You...
_
|_| Tell him that, darn it, you've just sold the last one. However,
the top-quality "SONY" brand TV right next to it is only $225!
When he points out the stack of sale TV's next to the display,
tell him they're empty boxes. If he picks one up to see, run.
_
|_| Scoff at his selection. Explain that all the kids nowadays
would be humiliated by anything less than a 32" Mitsubishi with
Stereo Surround, only $3,200!
_
|_| Tell him Sunnyvale has some, and they'll hold one. Then call
Sunnyvale and tell them to send him to Campbell. Repeat with
Fremont store.
_
|_| Invite him out to your car, where there's an "Open Box Buy."
You're working the AV room today. Customers come in to see the Home
Theater equipment. You...
_
|_| Diddle nonchalantly with the equipment, and tell people you have
the same $1,400 Carver amp at home. Only your mom knows you buy
Realistic from Radio Shack.
_
|_| Insist repeatedly that the Technics speakers are really the same
as the Infinity Crescendos, just without the expensive
nameplate.
_
|_| Fantasize idly of your dream job at Circuit City. Someday,
someday...
_
|_| Put "Top Gun" into the VCR and turn the volume up so loud that
you're instantly sterile
=====================================================================
EMPLOYMENT EXPERIENCE
Have you been fired by Radio Shack or any subsidiary of the Tandy
Corporation in the last three years?
_ _
|_| Yes |_| No
Have you been involved in retailing in the USSR, North Korea,
Thailand, or any of the former Soviet satellites?
_ _
|_| Yes |_| No
Are you "computer literate?"
_ _
|_| Yes |_| No
Can you program your VCR?
_ _
|_| Yes |_| No
Do you know how to use an ATM?
_ _
|_| Yes |_| No
Do you know how to se a remote channel changer?
_ _
|_| Yes |_| No
Can you flush a toilet without assistance?
_ _
|_| Yes |_| No
NOTE: If answer to any of the above is "yes," please answer "YES."
=====================================================================
Expected Salary:
_
|_| $4.85/Hr. Name of Elementary School Attended: ____________
_
|_| $5.00/Hr. Name of High School Attended: ____________
_
|_| $5.15/Hr. Name of College Attended: ____________
_
|_| $6.00/Hr. Name of Graduate School Attended: ____________
Previous Employment:
_
|_| Circuit City
_
|_| Lorenzo's Carwash
_
|_| Domino's Pizza Delivery
_
|_| "Would you like fries with that?"
_
|_| Just Turned 16 and Need a Job!
For how long?
_
|_| One paycheck.
_
|_| A few weeks.
_
|_| Until the federales caught up with me.
_
|_| I think I'm in the stock room right now.
=====================================================================
Signature: ___________________ Date: __________
Thanks for applying to Fry's Electronics. We're certain you'll be
robbing us blind in no time!
Tim May
keeth...@keethie.net wrote:
And what they know that is wrong can get them into a legal mess.
Several of you have stated that stores have no legal right to stop you, to
ask for receipts, to detain you, to search your bags, etc. Well, this
generally is not so. The laws about "defrauding innkeepers" (a term of
art, however archaic it sounds) apply in various ways, in various states.
I don't have access to legal data bases, but here is an example I found in
a few minutes in DejaNews. It covers the situation in Massachussetts,
which is admittedly not California, but the general point is made clearly.
(For quibblers, you are welcome to find the parallels in Calfifornia case
law.)
">
> >GENERAL LAWS OF MASSACHUSETTS
> >Chapter 231: Section 94B. False arrest; shoplifting; defrauding innkeepers;
> >defenses.
> >
> >
> >Section 94B. In an action for false arrest or false imprisonment brought by
> >any person by reason of having been detained for questioning on or in the
> >immediate vicinity of the premises of a merchant or an innkeeper, if such
> >person was detained in a reasonable manner and for not more than a
> >reasonable length of time by a person authorized to make arrests or by the
> >merchant or innkeeper or his agent or servant authorized for such purpose
> >and if there were reasonable grounds to believe that the person so detained
> >was committing or attempting to commit a violation of section thirty A of
> >chapter two hundred and sixty-six, or section twelve of chapter one hundred
> >and forty, or was committing or attempting to commit larceny of goods for
> >sale on such premises or larceny of the personal property of employees or
> >customers or others present on such premises, it shall be a defense to such
> >action.
> >
> >****
> >Translation: a merchant is within his rights to detain you if they believe
> >you have stolen something. You cannot sue them for false arrest.
John Higdon
(Tim May) wrote:
> And what they know that is wrong can get them into a legal mess.
I never said anything about legal rights. I said the search is avoidable.
Obviously it is since I have yet to have my receipt "checked" in several
years.
> Several of you have stated that stores have no legal right to stop you, to
> ask for receipts, to detain you, to search your bags, etc. Well, this
> generally is not so. The laws about "defrauding innkeepers" (a term of
> art, however archaic it sounds) apply in various ways, in various states.
I simply walk briskly past them and out the door. If someone wants to make
a scene and chase me, I won't run. But they would be taking quite a PR
risk in doing so, therefore they play the odds that I am not a shoplifter
and let it go. I care not about the legalities since, up to now, they have
not been an issue. Walking around the line is NOT breaking the law.
If and when Fry's ever uniformly implements the "exit check" procedure and
puts up appropriate signage (a la Costco), I would no doubt stand in the
sheep line like everyone else. But when the lines stack up while one
incompetent clerk fumbles around in people's bags, you can bet that if I
can walk around the event, I will.
Ignore This EMail Address
<keeth...@keethie.net> wrote:
>
>Sure is. I just look 'em straight in the eye as I walk past and--if words
>are necessary--say, "No, thank you." Usually, my gaze says it all. I will
>brook no interference with my departure. Period.
>
>If they attempt to physically detain me without cause, there will be an
>altercation, and I will have grounds for an eminently winnable lawsuit.
>The guards know it, the Fry family knows it and the courts know it.
>
>I wish all every single Fry's customer knew it, too.
>
>Remove DRAT in reply to that
Some yars ago - I went into Fry's for my once-a-month component run
for a small production line I was running. About $2,500 in MSI TTL,
EPROMS, 16L6s and the like. I make my purchase (paying by company
check, which was moderately painless in those days) and began to exit
the store. The DoorNazi said - as I was approaching - "May I check
your receipt, Sir!" and I said (in my my best super-polite late-night
Jock voice) - "No, Thanks anyway!" ... She begins to step into my path
saying, "SIR! I need to check your receipt!"
I do a quick side-step and turn back as I'm passing through the door,
"Oh, No you don't - but thanks for asking!"
I'm half-way across the parking lot (I'm with a group of three or four
friends) when a Security Ubernazi begins shouting at me from the door,
and gives chase. I double-time to my car, and lock my purchase in the
trunk.
The security head looks ex-military to me -- early-to-mid 40's in good
shape, but a little paunch - like someone who retired after his
20-years in the Marines that he started the day out of high school.
His name tag intimates that he's In Charge in some way (I don't
remember the exact title - but "Chief of Loss Control" springs to
mind)
Sgt Carter reaches me and stands about 1/32" from an assault charge,
but shouts in my face, "What is your PROBLEM?!" as if I had done
something unbelievably gauche. I put on my firm-but-polite voice and
say, "I'm sorry - The woman asked if she might check my receipt, and I
politely declined."
"Why did you do that?"
"Because - I didn't want my receipt checked."
"Well - we have to check your receipt."
"No. You don't `have to'. Once I've completed my transaction, this
merchandise is my private property, and you can't search it without
cause."
"Well - don't you ever come back to this store -- because if I see
you, I'll collar you right away!"
<sotto voce> "By the time I come back, you'll be replaced..."
"What was that?"
"Just commenting on the store's turnover ... "
--------------------------------------------------
Other things to do at Fry's if you have spare time and like ruining
peoples' lives:
This works only when they're EXTREMELY crowded and they have the
"starter" at the top of the line to tell you which window to go to
(Brokaw and Hamilton stores do this on weekends.)
Go through the line with a high-shrinkage item (portable and
expensive). Pay with cash. Make a note of the clerk's name. Take
your purchase, bag, recipt and all and get back in line. Grab a
candy-bar from the impulse racks. When you get to the starter at the
top of the line, let a person behind you go ahead of you saying, "You
go first -- I am waiting for <clerk's name> to help me." Do this
until "your" clerk is available. When you arrive at his/her window,
use their first name as if you've know them many years. Buy your
candy-bar. On your way past the door-nazi give them the receipt for
the candy purchase - this will distract them long enough to get out
the door. Better than 90% chance "your" clerk will be fired on the
spot.
I guess I feel sorry for the clerk who's only trying to make a buck
and doesn't have the connections to sell crack - but eventually ONE of
them will have the cajones to embroil Fry's in an unlawful termination
lawsuit they'll never forget.
--------------------------------------------------
This next trick is sophomoric, and scatological. Save it for a day
when the door-nazi is being PARTICULARLY aggressive. Skip it if you
have good taste.
Make your purchase normally, and between the check-out counter and the
door person - visibly use the receipt to perform some last-minute anal
hygeine. Hand the soiled receipt to the door nazi and say, "I don't
want that thing! It's got shit on it!"
--------------------------------------------------
I always wonder what will happen to Fry's when some truly unstable
person (think Ted Kaczinski) decides to plant an explosive device into
something large enough to disguise a harmful amount - for example a
monitor - and returns it. Fry's restocks the device - innocent
customer purchases, not knowing their SVGA monitor is now a deadly
weapon. What a lawsuit!
--------------------------------------------------
--Scott -- http://www.cluon.com/~scotts/ --
keeth...@keethie.net
>Several of you have stated that stores have no legal right to stop you, to
>ask for receipts, to detain you, to search your bags, etc.
Please reread my post. I specifically said, "without cause". If they
detain me and find nothing, I have a case--a good one, too. Moreover, let
them stop me with physical force and my case gets much stronger for
punitive damages, even if I am stealing.
Do they have "reasonable cause" to detain every customer leaving their
store? I think not, and I believe any court in any state in the nation
would agree.
PeterH5322
>>
... If and when Fry's ever uniformly implements the "exit check" procedure and
puts up appropriate signage (a la Costco) ...
>>
That is the $64,000 question ... appropriate "notice" (signage) and uniform
application of procedures.
If those are implemented, the "cavity search" (AKA, "The Final Insult") would
be likely be unavoidable.
I suspect that appropriate signage would be quite diffucult to implement (given
the numerous languages used by both Fry's customers and by Fry's employees).
Without "notice", I doubt that the "cavity search" is enforceable, except on a
case-by-case basis.
Tim May
keeth...@keethie.net wrote:
Yes, it's their store. So long as the policy is enforced fairly uniformly,
they can search bags. "All bags subject to search" is a sign in many
stores. I don't recall if Fry's has it.
In response to another comment, by John Higdon, I never said his bypassing
the checkers was "illegal." If he can get away with it, fine. I have done
so myself, many times.
Rather, I was saying that if some folks think they can throw a hissy-fit
and then be backed up by winning a major lawsuit, they are likely
mistaken.
This being California, precedent is an iffy thing. If Johnny Cockroach or
Leslie Abrahamson is their lawyer, they may end up owning Fry's. But
precedent supports the right of store owners to check bags. And even
detain suspected shoplifters.
Whether stolen goods are ultimately found is a factor in the ultimate
settlement, but not the determining factor.
--Tim May
Ignore This Address
<keeth...@keethie.net> wrote:
>In article <tcmay-09039...@santacruz82.got.net>, tc...@got.net
>(Tim May) wrote:
>
>>Several of you have stated that stores have no legal right to stop you, to
>>ask for receipts, to detain you, to search your bags, etc.
>
>Please reread my post. I specifically said, "without cause". If they
>detain me and find nothing, I have a case--a good one, too. Moreover, let
>them stop me with physical force and my case gets much stronger for
>punitive damages, even if I am stealing.
>
>Do they have "reasonable cause" to detain every customer leaving their
>store? I think not, and I believe any court in any state in the nation
>would agree.
>
IANAL, But I was once a principal in a suit around this very issue.
I was 12 years old and was detained for shoplifting. I had taken some
item - about $0.50 worth - and secreted it in my left pocket. I was
then continuing my normal shopping routine - which was picking up a
six-pack of diet soda for my mother. While I was walking down an
aisle, two store employees accosted me, and created A Scene.
It turns out - they didn't have the right to do that - we filed a suit
and got a small (and I mean SMALL) out-of-court settlement: A written
apology, and a promise that they would retrain all of their personnel
in all stores.
Now, I was pretty young at the time, so I don't know if this is
black-letter law, or California Case Law, but the gist was: A store
must satisfy three requirements to detain you for shoplifting without
garnering an false arrest tort: 1) They have to describe with
'reasonable' accuracy, the item you are attempting to steal. 2) They
must describe with 'reasonable' accuracy where upon your person you
have secreted the item, and 3) (the part they missed in my case) you
must make an overt attempt to leave the premises without paying.
In Theory (Kids, don't try this at home) one could be well within the
law to go shopping, and rather than use a cart or basket, use ones
pockets. So long as one came-clean at the register you're not
shoplifting. My dad's attorney argued that I didn't INTEND to steal
the item - I was just embarassed at the tender age of twelve to be
seen carrying a toy more appropriate to a younger child and kept it in
my pocket intending to pay for it at the register. (Through sheer
luck, I said one thing when I was searched that sealed my victory in
that case: "I was going to pay for it!")
This was actually the watershed in my descent into cynicism about the
Legal profession: I WAS guilty, and DIDN'T intend to pay for it.
Moral for the twelve-year-old: Crime is bad, unless you have a good
lawyer.
...Older but wiser.
P.S. I suppose the store actually won in the end: I was so mortified
by the whole experience that I never considered pinching something
again in my teen years, when there was considerable peer-pressure to
swipe something.
David Kaye
" must satisfy three requirements to detain you for shoplifting without
" garnering an false arrest tort: 1) They have to describe with
" 'reasonable' accuracy, the item you are attempting to steal. 2) They
" must describe with 'reasonable' accuracy where upon your person you
" have secreted the item, and 3) (the part they missed in my case) you
" must make an overt attempt to leave the premises without paying.
A cute trick I learned in retailing that subtly tells the customer that
you saw them, but doesn't accuse them of anything is to put another of the
exact same item they're hiding into their shopping cart. I've seen this
done, and I've seen the customer meekly return the stolen item to a shelf.
" In Theory (Kids, don't try this at home) one could be well within the
" law to go shopping, and rather than use a cart or basket, use ones
" pockets. So long as one came-clean at the register you're not
" shoplifting.
Not so. The laws were rewritten some time ago to make clear that an
attempt to conceal is considered shoplifting, whether or not the customer
has left the store. You may not put things into your pocket. I think
this is a reasonable law.
--
(C) 1999 Blaise Pascal invented the first calculator
David Kaye in 1642 to help his father, a tax collector
dk at wco.com
PeterH5322
>>
Yes, it's their store. So long as the policy is enforced fairly uniformly,
they can search bags. "All bags subject to search" is a sign in many
stores. I don't recall if Fry's has it.
>>
Fry's Sunnyvale store has absolutely NO exit signage (other than "This Door To
Remain Open During Business Hours").
Just the door Nazi.
PeterH5322
>>
But precedent supports the right of store owners to check bags. And even detain
suspected shoplifters.
>>
I have absolutely NO problem with the exit check.
If they detain/arrest me without evidence, they'll be sued for false
imprisonment/arrest.
keeth...@keethie.net
(Tim May) wrote:
>it's their store.
T.S. It's my body and my purchase. After the transaction is completed, it
is no longer any of their business what I bought. If they don't want to
sell to people under those conditions, they should get a signed consent
form from everyone entering their store or move their operation to another
shore.
>So long as the policy is enforced fairly uniformly,
>they can search bags.
Only with consent. I refuse to give mine--loudly enough so that there will
be witnesses to my refusal. Even if they have a video of you stealing,
they have to wait for the appropriate authorities to arrive to conduct a
search, if you don't consent. Agreed that they can detain you with cause,
but searching a person's body or possessions without consent is criminal
assault. Even the detention must be handled correctly. (BTW, I'm not
encouraging thieves to try to enforce their "rights". You give up a lot
when you steal.)
The instant they touch me or my property without cause or consent, they
give me legal standing (it isn't just a right, it's a duty) to defend
myself with like force and to recover, in court, any damages incurred in
the altercation.
FYI, it isn't just Fry's who would be liable in such a case. The guard
would be also, as an individual.
John Higdon
meatyporcin...@spam.com (Ignore This Address) wrote:
> P.S. I suppose the store actually won in the end: I was so mortified
> by the whole experience that I never considered pinching something
> again in my teen years, when there was considerable peer-pressure to
> swipe something.
No, on the contrary. I think you actually won on that one as well.
Tim May
keeth...@keethie.net wrote:
> In article <tcmay-09039...@santacruz175.got.net>, tc...@got.net
> (Tim May) wrote:
>
> >it's their store.
>
> T.S. It's my body and my purchase. After the transaction is completed, it
> is no longer any of their business what I bought. If they don't want to
> sell to people under those conditions, they should get a signed consent
> form from everyone entering their store or move their operation to another
> shore.
You'd better check the U.C.C. (Uniform Commercial Code). It is you, the
customer, who is agreeing to abide by the rules of the store when you
enter, not the other way around.
As for the "transaction is completed" point, this is only true once you
have left their premises. The reason Costco makes a mark on receipts,
after approximately checking the contents of one's bags is two-fold:
first, to check that the possessor of the receipt matches the goods,
second to make sure the receipt holder does not take the good out to his
car, return to the store, fill up an identical basket, and then get the
basket out with the receipt as "proof." A marked receipt cannot be reused,
and thus becomes the simplest way of stopping this scam.
>
> >So long as the policy is enforced fairly uniformly,
> >they can search bags.
>
> Only with consent. I refuse to give mine--loudly enough so that there will
> be witnesses to my refusal.
Come on down to my store. I'll be only too happy to hold you 'till the
cops arrive.
And I'll win in court.
Tim May
peter...@aol.com (PeterH5322) wrote:
They don't need "evidence." Evidence is lacking in 99% of all shoplifting
cases. What they have is suspicion. Whether the suspicion is ultimately
confirmed is not the point.
Their store, their rules. If you don't like Costco's policies, or Fry's
policies, don't shop there. Simple.
Shop at my store, try to leave the store, and I'll gladly detain you with
whatever force is necessary.
Tim May
<d...@removethis.wco.com> wrote:
>
> Not so. The laws were rewritten some time ago to make clear that an
> attempt to conceal is considered shoplifting, whether or not the customer
> has left the store. You may not put things into your pocket. I think
> this is a reasonable law.
>
I am in (rare) agreement with David on this. One is simply not free to
fill up one's coat pockets and shoes with stuff, and then only be charged
with shoplifting if one of the secreted items is detected.
As for kids stealing stuff, reform schools need to be brought back.
(No, I never stole anything from a store when I was a kid. Never tempted,
never felt peer pressure. If I couldn't afford something, I did without.)
John Higdon
(Tim May) wrote:
> As for the "transaction is completed" point, this is only true once you
> have left their premises. The reason Costco makes a mark on receipts,
> after approximately checking the contents of one's bags is two-fold:
> first, to check that the possessor of the receipt matches the goods,
> second to make sure the receipt holder does not take the good out to his
> car, return to the store, fill up an identical basket, and then get the
> basket out with the receipt as "proof." A marked receipt cannot be reused,
> and thus becomes the simplest way of stopping this scam.
Big difference between Costco and Fry's. Costco has signs aplenty
throughout the store explaining exactly what you described above. Costco
has multiple people who appear to be trained in their duties who perform
the exit check. Even though the store may be packed, I rarely have to
break my stride when exiting. The policy is uniformly enforced.
Fry's, on the other hand, has exactly one non-english-speaking person who
fumbles and bumbles with the receipts and the items in folks' bags. There
is no effort to either enforce this policy or to streamline the procedure.
There is absolutely no signage regarding the exit check. What it amounts
to is someone standing by the door, and the sheep customers dutifully
queueing up accordingly.
If and when Fry's makes some sort of exit policy clear, I will consider it
a condition of shopping. Until then, I will assume that the crowd by the
door is looking at the stocktender's latest porno mag. If a clerk asks to
"see my receipt", I will obligingly wave it in the air while walking out.
If Fry's wants more cooperation than that, they can--like Costco--so inform me.
Tim May
(John Higdon) wrote:
> Big difference between Costco and Fry's. Costco has signs aplenty
> throughout the store explaining exactly what you described above. Costco
> has multiple people who appear to be trained in their duties who perform
> the exit check. Even though the store may be packed, I rarely have to
> break my stride when exiting. The policy is uniformly enforced.
>
> Fry's, on the other hand, has exactly one non-english-speaking person who
> fumbles and bumbles with the receipts and the items in folks' bags. There
> is no effort to either enforce this policy or to streamline the procedure.
> There is absolutely no signage regarding the exit check. What it amounts
> to is someone standing by the door, and the sheep customers dutifully
> queueing up accordingly.
Then don't shop there. I don't mean this flippantly, I mean this quite
seriously: customers are free to not patronize stores whose policies or
employees they think are sloppy, boorish, uneducated, or illiterate.
They are _not_ free to announce that they will not be subject to the
store's search policies because they think the sign was not clear enough,
or because the person at the store spoke Hindi, or whatever.
> If and when Fry's makes some sort of exit policy clear, I will consider it
> a condition of shopping. Until then, I will assume that the crowd by the
> door is looking at the stocktender's latest porno mag. If a clerk asks to
> "see my receipt", I will obligingly wave it in the air while walking out.
>
> If Fry's wants more cooperation than that, they can--like Costco--so
inform me.
They are under no obligation to meet your standards, my standars, or Mary
Jo's standards.
Your choice is to not patronize stores whose polices you dislike.
Tim May
peter...@aol.com (PeterH5322) wrote:
> >>
> Shop at my store, try to leave the store, and I'll gladly detain you with
> whatever force is necessary.
> >>
>
> Interesting proposition.
>
> Say I do shop at your store.
>
> And say you do stop me, based upon your "suspicion".
>
> And further say that during said detention (which is subsequently proved to be
> unwarranted due to lack of physical evidence upon a forced physical
examination
> of my person) that I have a medical emergency.
>
Trying to understand your tortured prose here, you've created a straw man.
Why not just go even further:
"And further say that during said detention (which is subsequently proved
to be unwarranted due to lack of physical evidence upon a forced physical
examination of my person) that I am struck by a falling meteorite."
When you shop in a store, you may face delays of various kinds. Paying for
one's meals in a restaurant is a related example. Are you claiming that a
restaurant is liable for making a customer wait the extra minutes until a
bill can be prepared and payment accepted?
Again, if you don't like the policies of a store, don't shop there. Simple.
Storeowners have property rights.
PeterH5322
>>
Until then, I will assume that the crowd by the
door is looking at the stocktender's latest porno mag.
>>
Likely, this porno mag contains certain "shots" of circumsized females, based
upon the previously stated ethnicity of the Fry's door Nazi.
PeterH5322
>>
Shop at my store, try to leave the store, and I'll gladly detain you with
whatever force is necessary.
>>
Interesting proposition.
Say I do shop at your store.
And say you do stop me, based upon your "suspicion".
And further say that during said detention (which is subsequently proved to be
unwarranted due to lack of physical evidence upon a forced physical examination
of my person) that I have a medical emergency.
Do you seriously believe that I am going to let you get by with a "We're sorry
about your M.I. Thanks for shopping at Tim May's. Do come back soon, y'all"?
I don't think so.
John Higdon
> Then don't shop there. I don't mean this flippantly, I mean this quite
> seriously: customers are free to not patronize stores whose policies or
> employees they think are sloppy, boorish, uneducated, or illiterate.
I haven't shopped there in some time except when doing business for
others. When I do shop there on behalf of someone else, I avoid the cavity
search quite simply on the grounds that it is neither enforced nor a
stated policy.
> They are under no obligation to meet your standards, my standars, or Mary
> Jo's standards.
>
> Your choice is to not patronize stores whose polices you dislike.
I am under no obligation to comply with a policy that is not made known to
me by anyone at anytime.
John Higdon
> Do you seriously believe that I am going to let you get by with a "We're sorry
> about your M.I. Thanks for shopping at Tim May's. Do come back soon, y'all"?
>
> I don't think so.
I would suspect that Fry's has a more realistic grasp of its benefits vs
liabilities in enforcing what amounts to nothing more than an implied
policy. That suspicion is based on the reality that the company does not
in fact engage in such enforcement.
I fail to see why compliance with such a vague and unenforced policy is of
any benefit to anyone.
John Higdon
> Storeowners have property rights.
If so, then they have the obligation to enforce them. Until such
enforcement occurs at Fry's, I intend to not comply. If at some future
time such enforcement is enacted, I will re-assess my desire to shop
there. Until then, I see no reason to change the status quo.
keeth...@keethie.net
>Come on down to my store. I'll be only too happy to hold you 'till the
>cops arrive.
>
>And I'll win in court.
Post the address.
keeth...@keethie.net
(John Higdon) wrote:
>I am under no obligation to comply with a policy that is not made known to
>me by anyone at anytime.
Nor one which violates your personal right to privacy.
keeth...@keethie.net
>Shop at my store, try to leave the store, and I'll gladly detain you with
>whatever force is necessary.
Post saved. You sure are brave. Would you mind posting your store's name
and address so people can patronize?
keeth...@keethie.net
>When you shop in a store, you may face delays of various kinds.
And you are ALWAYS entitled to walk out unimpeded.
>Paying for
>one's meals in a restaurant is a related example. Are you claiming that a
>restaurant is liable for making a customer wait the extra minutes until a
>bill can be prepared and payment accepted?
Talk about strawman. Paying for the meal (or the merchandise) is the
completion of the transaction. Once that is done, any further obstruction
on the part of the merchant is unwarranted. If Fry's wants to check my
merchandise *before* I've paid for it, fine. Bizarre (well, maybe not for
Fry's) but fine.
Once the transaction is complete...hands off, bud.
Someone mentioned another weird policy of Costco. Does Costco insist on
looking into bagged purchases (I don't know, I've never gone there)? Or do
they just mark receipts?
keeth...@keethie.net
>Again, if you don't like the policies of a store, don't shop there. Simple.
Agreed.
>Storeowners have property rights.
So does everyone else. Property rights end where someone else's property
begins. My property begins at my person and my possessions when I visit
someone else's premises. Just being on someone else's property doesn't
make me subject to improper procedures.
keeth...@keethie.net
keeth...@keethie.net wrote:
>In article <tcmay-09039...@santacruz85.got.net>, tc...@got.net
>(Tim May) wrote:
>
>>Shop at my store, try to leave the store, and I'll gladly detain you with
>>whatever force is necessary.
>
>Post saved. You sure are brave. Would you mind posting your store's name
>and address so people can patronize?
At least say you don't own MicroCenter :-)
Eric Weaver
Tim doesn't own MicroCenter. They don't "search" anybody; they just
keep a sharp eye out. Fine store, MicroCenter, I just wish it were
closer to my house.
--
Eric C. Weaver we...@sigma.net
-- Your message here -- reasonable rates -- inquire above --
Reverend Tweek
>In article <tcmay-09039...@santacruz85.got.net>, tc...@got.net
>(Tim May) wrote:
>
>
>And you are ALWAYS entitled to walk out unimpeded.
IANAL... but IMO, *INCLUDING* Costco and Sam's. Of course, they
will probably revoke your membership if you do, but I'd guess that
they can't physically force you to submit to their cavity search
either.
--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Had your share of stoopid(tm) people? | |
| View the "Contra Costa Whines" at | [This space for lease] |
| http://www.io.com/~tweek/cocowhine/ | |
PeterH5322
>>
Again, if you don't like the policies of a store, don't shop there. Simple.
Storeowners have property rights.
>>
I do not deny that store owners have "rights".
But so also do citizen shoppers, innocently performing their function.
But you carefully and completely avoided answering my specific question.
I'll ask it again:
1) I was detained by you, based solely on your "right" as a merchant to detain
suspected shoplifters,
2) during the forced search which followed I had a medical emergency (remember,
YOU or YOUR agents were the forceful ones, as I professed my inocence, and I
refused to be searched, but I took no action other than to refuse such search),
3) Do you claim to be immune to legal challenge (for assault, excessive force,
illegal search, illegal imprisonment, or whatever else I and my attorneys can
think of)?
Tim May
> In article <abuse-10039...@bovine.ati.com>, ab...@bovine.ati.com
> (John Higdon) wrote:
>
> >I am under no obligation to comply with a policy that is not made known to
> >me by anyone at anytime.
>
> Nor one which violates your personal right to privacy.
>
Check the Constitution--there is no delineated "right to privacy." There
are certain property rights, there is freedom from unreasonable search and
seizure by the government, etc., but there is no "right to privacy" such
as you think there is.
If there were, shoplifters could unobtrusively secrete small items in
their pockets and such and then have a "right to privacy."
In case anyone is wondering, no shop is required to post a policy about
exit inspections. Were this to be so, the vast majority of shops--jewelry,
clothing, variety, books, etc.--would have no means of dealing with
shoplifters.
Tim May
> In article <tcmay-09039...@santacruz85.got.net>, tc...@got.net
> (Tim May) wrote:
>
> >Come on down to my store. I'll be only too happy to hold you 'till the
> >cops arrive.
> >
> >And I'll win in court.
>
> Post the address.
>
Corner of Brown's Valley Road and Allan Lane, Corralitos.
However, you're not welcome in my shop. I get to pick and choose as I see
fit. Try and enter and I'll hold you until the cops arrive.
Tim May
> In article <tcmay-09039...@santacruz85.got.net>, tc...@got.net
> (Tim May) wrote:
>
> >Shop at my store, try to leave the store, and I'll gladly detain you with
> >whatever force is necessary.
>
> Post saved. You sure are brave. Would you mind posting your store's name
> and address so people can patronize?
You already asked that, you dumb cunt.
Tim May
> In article <keethieDRAT-10...@user11.usr1.accesscom.com>,
> keeth...@keethie.net wrote:
>
> >In article <tcmay-09039...@santacruz85.got.net>, tc...@got.net
> >(Tim May) wrote:
> >
> >>Shop at my store, try to leave the store, and I'll gladly detain you with
> >>whatever force is necessary.
> >
> >Post saved. You sure are brave. Would you mind posting your store's name
> >and address so people can patronize?
>
> At least say you don't own MicroCenter :-)
>
What's with your repetition? PMS?
Tim May
> In article <tcmay-09039...@santacruz85.got.net>, tc...@got.net
> (Tim May) wrote:
>
> > Storeowners have property rights.
>
> If so, then they have the obligation to enforce them. Until such
> enforcement occurs at Fry's, I intend to not comply. If at some future
> time such enforcement is enacted, I will re-assess my desire to shop
> there. Until then, I see no reason to change the status quo.
Enforcement is as they deem appropriate. Just because, say, they check one
departing patron more thoroughly than another does not mean all patrons
are thus exempt from searches.
Fact is, shops will check some patrons, not check others.
You seem to think that any storeowner who fails to meet _your_ standards
of notificiation, e.g, 128-point type signs prominently displayed and 100%
inspection of all pockets, bags, purses, and receipts, then loses all
ability to check a particular person whom he suspects. Ain't so.
Tim May
keeth...@keethie.net wrote:
> In article <tcmay-09039...@santacruz85.got.net>, tc...@got.net
> (Tim May) wrote:
>
> >Again, if you don't like the policies of a store, don't shop there. Simple.
>
> Agreed.
>
> >Storeowners have property rights.
>
> So does everyone else. Property rights end where someone else's property
> begins. My property begins at my person and my possessions when I visit
> someone else's premises. Just being on someone else's property doesn't
> make me subject to improper procedures.
>
And the U.C.C. is what spells out this compromise on rights. Check it out.
Arguing in hand-waving ways that one has some "right to privacy" is pointless.
Tim May
>
> Once the transaction is complete...hands off, bud.
>
> Someone mentioned another weird policy of Costco. Does Costco insist on
> looking into bagged purchases (I don't know, I've never gone there)? Or do
> they just mark receipts?
Yes, they look in bags. As is their right.
Your "hands off, bud" point is simply ignorant.
Tim May
(Reverend Tweek) wrote:
> <keeth...@keethie.net> wrote:
> >In article <tcmay-09039...@santacruz85.got.net>, tc...@got.net
> >(Tim May) wrote:
> >
> >>When you shop in a store, you may face delays of various kinds.
> >
> >And you are ALWAYS entitled to walk out unimpeded.
>
> IANAL... but IMO, *INCLUDING* Costco and Sam's. Of course, they
> will probably revoke your membership if you do, but I'd guess that
> they can't physically force you to submit to their cavity search
> either.
They most certainly _can_ detain a patron for not abiding by store policy.
You folks are really ignorant of the most basic points of law.
If you think shopowners have no such ability, how do you think _any_
shoplifter is _ever_ caught? Do you think each and every shop has a
policeman (government-paid, I mean) in the store at all times?
Check out the various laws about "defrauding an innkeeper." Yes, I know
the name sounds archaic, but it's the set of laws, common law and spelled
out in various U.S. and state criminal codes, which allows an innkeeper
(hotel owner, etc.) or shopkeeper to detain those suspected of not paying
or defrauding the innkeepers or shopowner.
Yes, mistakes are sometimes made. Yes, there may be cases where a mistaken
detention results in damages paid to the victim of the mistake. Such
damages would depend on the nature of the mistake, the motivation of the
shopkeeper, etc., and would be up to a civil jury or judge to decide on.
However, I am refuting the basic point which started this whole thread,
the bold assertion that one is:
* always free to simply walk out of a shop with one's bags and backpacks
and purses and whatnot
* that any attempt to detain a person for either a search or on suspicion
of shoplifting will automatically trigger a successful action against the
store
(Unless, as a few people like John Higdon are claiming, the store posts a
large sign in prominent locations...but his is only one view. "Keethie"
argues that no such stoppage is permissable, even with large signs or
suspicion of shoplifting.)
These beliefs are simply false.
I invite those who believe these false beliefs to put them to the test. If
you are right, according to your beliefs, you should be able to walk into
Gump's in SF, behave suspiciously, act as a shoplifter, and then simply
"walk out." When clerks at Gump's ask you to show them what's in your
purse or pockets, you can simply "make a scene" (as was suggested earlier
in this thread). Then, when they call in their store security or the
police, and find nothing, you can sue Gump's. According to the logic
expressed by some in this thread, you will then prevail in court and will,
as the saying goes, "own Gump's."
Well, no you won't. You'll be lucky to get even a slight apology for your
stunt.
Try it. Keethie can throw her fit, John H. can "walk briskly and not stop."
John Higdon
(Tim May) wrote:
> You already asked that, you dumb cunt.
I apologize for starting this thread. When normal courtesies of polite
society break down, there is little point in continuing.
John Higdon
> In case anyone is wondering, no shop is required to post a policy about
> exit inspections. Were this to be so, the vast majority of shops--jewelry,
> clothing, variety, books, etc.--would have no means of dealing with
> shoplifters.
So how, pray tell, is the customer of a jewelry shop supposed to know,
lacking any statement to that effect, that he is supposed to line up at
the door and wait for a store employee to search him before he leaves?
What you say makes abolutely no sense whatsoever. The "norm" is to NOT
have exit searches. The vast majority of retailers do NOT require exit
searches (in my town, anyway). The mere fact that some people seem to be
bunching up at an exit does not qualify as even a statement of policy, let
along a demand for compliance with some policy. And yes, one must make a
request or demand before one can expect compliance.
John Higdon
> You folks are really ignorant of the most basic points of law.
Then perhaps this discussion ought to move to misc.legal.
My original point was the lack of Fry's spots on KGO. Do you want to argue
with me about that assertion as well?
John Higdon
> You seem to think that any storeowner who fails to meet _your_ standards
> of notificiation, e.g, 128-point type signs prominently displayed and 100%
> inspection of all pockets, bags, purses, and receipts, then loses all
> ability to check a particular person whom he suspects. Ain't so.
Did I say they had no "right" to stop me? I said that I had never been
stopped when failing to line up for search. Is there something about that
you cannot understand? It is a statement of fact. No matter what you say,
now matter how you present it, the fact is that I have never been
challenged by anyone at Fry's for failing to line up at the exit. Until I
am challenged, that will be my practice. Period. No more strawmen, please.
kbq...@my-dejanews.com
tc...@got.net (Tim May) spewed the following garbage:
> You already asked that, you dumb cunt.
>
> --Tim May
Guess you got a bit upset, Tim, and showed your true colors. Too bad: you had
some credibility until now...
Take another pill, and calm down.
Kevin Quinn
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
George Byrd
on "Re: Fry's Electronics Spots"
tc...@got.net (Tim May) cast this ASCII:
>Check the Constitution--there is no delineated "right to privacy." There
>are certain property rights, there is freedom from unreasonable search and
>seizure by the government, etc., but there is no "right to privacy" such
>as you think there is.
California Constitution:
"ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS
SECTION 1. All people are by nature free and independent and have
inalienable rights. Among these are enjoying and defending life and
liberty, acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and pursuing
and obtaining safety, happiness, and privacy."
You can even find it online at <http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/const.html>.
GB
--
Opinions above are NOT those of APAN, Inc. & are NOT legal advice.
"It ain't so much the things we don't know that get us in trouble.
It's the things we know that ain't so."
<< Artemus Ward >>
Tim May
> In article <tcmay-10039...@santacruz229.got.net>, tc...@got.net
> (Tim May) wrote:
>
> > In case anyone is wondering, no shop is required to post a policy about
> > exit inspections. Were this to be so, the vast majority of shops--jewelry,
> > clothing, variety, books, etc.--would have no means of dealing with
> > shoplifters.
>
> So how, pray tell, is the customer of a jewelry shop supposed to know,
> lacking any statement to that effect, that he is supposed to line up at
> the door and wait for a store employee to search him before he leaves?
>
I never said anyone had to line up. If Gump's doesn't ask you to show
what's in your bag, etc., then don't. But if they do, you have a choice to
make, of refusing and likely being detained or submitting.
The point is that there is no requirement that a sign be posted to this effect.
> What you say makes abolutely no sense whatsoever. The "norm" is to NOT
> have exit searches. The vast majority of retailers do NOT require exit
> searches (in my town, anyway).
I didn't say what the "norm" is. You need to work on your reading comprehension.
>The mere fact that some people seem to be
> bunching up at an exit does not qualify as even a statement of policy, let
> along a demand for compliance with some policy. And yes, one must make a
> request or demand before one can expect compliance.
No, the described circumstances (maybe by you, I forget who said it) were
of someone walking past a "door Nazi" who asked him to stop. We are not
talking about your fabulation about someone "not knowing" they were
supposed to show their receipt.
Are you willfully being obtuse, to make a rhetorical point of some kind,
or just dense?
Tim May
> In <ba.broadcast>, Wed, 10 Mar 1999 10:53:59 -0800,
> on "Re: Fry's Electronics Spots"
> tc...@got.net (Tim May) cast this ASCII:
>
> >Check the Constitution--there is no delineated "right to privacy." There
> >are certain property rights, there is freedom from unreasonable search and
> >seizure by the government, etc., but there is no "right to privacy" such
> >as you think there is.
>
> California Constitution:
>
> "ARTICLE 1 DECLARATION OF RIGHTS
>
>
> SECTION 1. All people are by nature free and independent and have
> inalienable rights. Among these are enjoying and defending life and
> liberty, acquiring, possessing, and protecting property, and pursuing
> and obtaining safety, happiness, and privacy."
>
You're a simpleton.
Tim May
> In article <tcmay-10039...@santacruz229.got.net>, tc...@got.net
> (Tim May) wrote:
>
> > You seem to think that any storeowner who fails to meet _your_ standards
> > of notificiation, e.g, 128-point type signs prominently displayed and 100%
> > inspection of all pockets, bags, purses, and receipts, then loses all
> > ability to check a particular person whom he suspects. Ain't so.
>
> Did I say they had no "right" to stop me? I said that I had never been
> stopped when failing to line up for search. Is there something about that
> you cannot understand? It is a statement of fact.
We're in a discussion of the general rights of shopkeepers vs. patrons,
not a specific argument about what "John Higdon" would do. I apologize for
slipping from the more general (but often disliked) "one" mode and into
"you." It points out the flaws in ever using the second person singular.
Many in this thread have opined that a shop simply cannot ask for a
receipt, or check bags, etc. You, you John Higdon, have opined that Fry's
is at fault for not having large signs in places you think they should be.
I've said that a store is not required to post all of its policies
prominently (or at all, actually). Policies about detecting shoplifting
and such are established by specific criminal codes and as part of the
Uniform Commerical Code.
One poster here _did_ get stopped by Fry's...or at least they attempted to
stop him. Here is his part of his post:
Re: Fry's Electronics Spots
Author:
Ignore This EMail Address <sa...@frys.com>
Date:
1999/03/09
Forum:
ba.broadcast
Some yars ago - I went into Fry's for my once-a-month component run
for a small production line I was running. About $2,500 in MSI TTL,
EPROMS, 16L6s and the like. I make my purchase (paying by company
check, which was moderately painless in those days) and began to exit
the store. The DoorNazi said - as I was approaching - "May I check
your receipt, Sir!" and I said (in my my best super-polite late-night
Jock voice) - "No, Thanks anyway!" ... She begins to step into my path
saying, "SIR! I need to check your receipt!"
I do a quick side-step and turn back as I'm passing through the door,
"Oh, No you don't - but thanks for asking!"
I'm half-way across the parking lot (I'm with a group of three or four
friends) when a Security Ubernazi begins shouting at me from the door,
and gives chase. I double-time to my car, and lock my purchase in the
trunk.
The security head looks ex-military to me -- early-to-mid 40's in good
shape, but a little paunch - like someone who retired after his
20-years in the Marines that he started the day out of high school.
His name tag intimates that he's In Charge in some way (I don't
remember the exact title - but "Chief of Loss Control" springs to
mind)
Sgt Carter reaches me and stands about 1/32" from an assault charge,
but shouts in my face, "What is your PROBLEM?!" as if I had done
something unbelievably gauche. I put on my firm-but-polite voice and
say, "I'm sorry - The woman asked if she might check my receipt, and I
politely declined."
"Why did you do that?"
"Because - I didn't want my receipt checked."
"Well - we have to check your receipt."
"No. You don't `have to'. Once I've completed my transaction, this
merchandise is my private property, and you can't search it without
cause."