Engineers, how many?
John DenHeetan
does the typical RF transmitter engineer service. Please tell me if it
makes a difference between number of FM, AM or TV stations, and whether
or not there are STL or TSL links also included. Do you find high power
rigs really take more time than low power ones?
--
JD-bigbird, jde...@edcen.ehhs.cmich.edu
po...@news.zeitgeist.net
: I am curious to find out from broadcast engineers as to how many stations
: makes a difference between number of FM, AM or TV stations, and whether
: or not there are STL or TSL links also included. Do you find high power
: rigs really take more time than low power ones?
Depends on if the engineer is a free-lance contract engineer or is
part-time with some outside contract work or is full time with a single
company.
When I was a contract engineer, I handled almost all of the
non-commercial stations in Fresno and some in the outside communities.
It ended up being about 6 or so transmitters/sites. I know other
contract engineers that handle more and less of that number.
As the Engineering Manager for KKSF/KDFC my involvement with
transmitters has gone down as my assistant handles most of the
transmitter maintence. He does KDFC AM and FM, where I handle most of
KKSF's FM.
FM transmitters can be less involved in maintaining than AM. AM sites
can have multiple towers, ATUs, and phasors that will need more
manintence.
Lately I find that most of my time is getting eaten up not doing radio
anymore but fixing, installing and design of computer systems. Some
times I long for the "good old days".
Tim
--
TLGnet, a San Francisco Bay Area Internetwork (RGnet, Inc)
Voice: +1 415 487 1902 Information: http://www.tlg.net
Fax: +1 415 552 6088 Price quotes are valid for 25 days
John Higdon
> Lately I find that most of my time is getting eaten up not doing radio
> anymore but fixing, installing and design of computer systems. Some
> times I long for the "good old days".
And this is exactly why broadcasting is losing engineers right and left.
As you point out, any engineer who does not keep up with computers is
ultimately out the door. But once the broadcast engineer has those
computing skills, he suddenly finds himself qualified for some REAL jobs
in some REAL industries.
Full-time broadcast engineers in major markets are usually well-paid with
good benefits. But step into a medium market and the picture changes
radically. Full-time engineers are almost unheard of. Those that exist get
lousy (when compared to positions requiring specialized skills in other
industries) pay. Contract engineers need to maintain multiple stations to
make any of the broadcasting involvement worthwhile. There are exceptions,
but not many.
And even those exceptions are not cast in stone. All it takes is an
acquisition of a station, and those "nice deals" than an engineer may have
worked hard for evaporate overnight. New owners toss people out on a
wholesale basis, starting with the highest paid. Engineering is viewed as
money down the drain. Most broadcast owners believe that the less money
spent on the technical plant (engineer's pay included), the better.
As a result of the uncertainty, the comparatively low pay, the specialized
skills required (that come from apprenticeship, not books or school), the
on-call exposure, and the odd hours, fewer and fewer people are giving
broadcast engineering a second look. One would have to have a lot of
passion for radio and a lot of ambition to start at square one these
days. And what usually happens is that the person embarking on this
journey finds a need to learn about computers. Having done that, he
discovers that his skills will make him employable in a company that has
decent hours, much better pay, better job security, more respect, and the
ability to can the pager.
I happen to like working with RF and things radio. But I certainly could
not depend on the broadcast industry to provide a decent living. So in
essence, radio is a part time job.
--
John Higdon | P.O. Box 7648 | +1 408 264 4115 | FAX:
jo...@ati.com | San Jose, CA 95150 | +1 500 FOR-A-MOO |+1 408 264 4407
| http://www.ati.com/ati |
David A. Kaye
" Ya gotta love it, for sure. Broadcast engineering meetings are
" gradually but surely becoming gray haired affairs.
I happened to like the BABES luncheons, though the call letters reported
by the engineers are sometimes no longer in existence or are letters like
KPH and KSF. The last luncheon I went to, which must be more than a year
ago, I'd say there were more former engineers than current ones. <sigh>
But that's the way of the world I guess.
Looking at the changes in auto mechanics and in appliance repair it
becomes quite clear that the manufacturers prefer to build equipment where
no real engineering is involved. Simply plug and play and hope for the
best.
--
(c) 1996 The federal goverment hires 8,000
David Kaye people a day (mainly replacements)
Jim Duncan
: Lately I find that most of my time is getting eaten up not doing radio
: anymore but fixing, installing and design of computer systems. Some
: times I long for the "good old days".
Exactly. Much of my broadcast engineering career was a
screwdrivers-and-voltmeters activity. In the last few years,
there's now just a Philips screwdriver along with SCSI, PCI,
TCP/IP, INETD, and most fun of all, HTTP! I all too often run
into broadcast engineers would are totally disinterested in
computer systems - these people are doomed for sure.
--
<< Jim Duncan: ji...@okay.com >>
SEMPER FAC TOTUM
http://holst.kbay.com
Jim Duncan
: As a result of the uncertainty, the comparatively low pay, the specialized
: skills required (that come from apprenticeship, not books or school), the
: on-call exposure, and the odd hours, fewer and fewer people are giving
: broadcast engineering a second look.
Ya gotta love it, for sure. Broadcast engineering meetings are
gradually but surely becoming gray haired affairs. The favorite
acronym isn't ERP; it's AARP.
Steve Rubin
Greg Skinner <g...@shellx.best.com> wrote:
>
>Do you like using and maintaining computers? Why or why not?
Yes
>
>Do you feel that having computers at the station helps you in any way?
>Even if it does not help you directly, do you feel they are a benefit
>to the station as a whole?
>
Yes, they are used for all aspects of the station (Except for automation,
yet.)
>Would you prefer that station owners hire computer support personnel
>to focus on computers, so you can focus on engineering? Do you think
>station owners feel this is a good investment? If not, what do you
>suppose would make them change their minds?
>
No this is fine as well.
However. I am a perfect example of what Jim Duncan was talking about when
he said that by the time you learn about computers, you might as well
go get a job IN computers that pays better :). I wanted to be a broadcast
engineer for years, but found that computers pay much better, and now like John Higdon, radio is a part time job for me.
Steve
KARA-KLIV-KRTY
& Aimnet Corporation.
--
Steven Eric Rubin <s...@aimnet.com/s...@tch.org> Aimnet Corporation
Senior Network Engineer 2350 Mission College Park
(408) 567-3820 x511 Santa Clara, CA 95054
po...@news.zeitgeist.net
: John Higdon <jo...@bovine.ati.com> wrote:
: >As [Tim Pozar points] out, any engineer who does not keep up with
: >computers is ultimately out the door. But once the broadcast engineer
: >has those computing skills, he suddenly finds himself qualified for
: >some REAL jobs in some REAL industries.
: Questions for you or any other engineer who wishes to respond:
: Do you like using and maintaining computers? Why or why not?
I like to create and design systems. I'm not as keen on maintaining
them. Computer maintenance is a thankless job. Usually some one is
screaming their head off that they can't get a print job done and they
need to send it to some buyer across town in 10 minutes. I prefer to
hack my code and put boxes together to do new things.
: Do you feel that having computers at the station helps you in any way?
: Even if it does not help you directly, do you feel they are a benefit
: to the station as a whole?
Definitely a benefit. I can stay in touch with the operation of the
station better. I can automate a number of jobs and have systems page
me when there is a problem. For example, when ever there is an EBS/EAS
test or activation from AP, I will get paged and can keep an eye on the
station to see they do the right things. And then there is the
standard office tasks. I don't think I have touched a typewriter
(unless I was throwing it out) since 1980. I have been using some sort
of word processing full time since then. Things like not having to
stand in line for the FAX machine when I can just use my FAX/modem to
send things out. (Why doesn't everyone have email? :-) )
: Would you prefer that station owners hire computer support personnel
: to focus on computers, so you can focus on engineering?
We have budgeted for this person this year. (BTW... If anyone does
UNIX (BSD and SysV), Novell (3.12) and MS-LAN admining, and wants to
work in this weird world of radio, please drop me a resume.) I would
love to have someone that will just take care of the everyday tasks of
working on the net. File servers are not just set-and-forget. They
need constant tweaking to get everyone's permissions set just right,
and backups done, and partitions cleaned and maintained... My job
responsibility is to:
1] Make sure we have a modulated carrier (a Ruck phrase).
2] Improve the coverage area.
3] Improve and create better access to the tools we use.
4] Help technically develop more revenue sources.
I can't do that by maintaining a bunch of computers. That is a full
time job.
: Do you think station owners feel this is a good investment?
You bet, at least here. You justify it by showing them how dependent
they are on the tools and if the tools break, they can loose buys or
worse yet, the operation of the station (READ: ad revenue). If they
want the CE to continue with the 4 points above they need to get
someone in to maintain those boxes.
: If not, what do you suppose would make them change their minds?
See above.
Tim Pozar
Engineering Manager KDFC/KKSF
Greg Skinner
John Higdon <jo...@bovine.ati.com> wrote:
>As [Tim Pozar points] out, any engineer who does not keep up with
>computers is ultimately out the door. But once the broadcast engineer
>has those computing skills, he suddenly finds himself qualified for
>some REAL jobs in some REAL industries.
Questions for you or any other engineer who wishes to respond:
Do you like using and maintaining computers? Why or why not?
Do you feel that having computers at the station helps you in any way?
Even if it does not help you directly, do you feel they are a benefit
to the station as a whole?
Would you prefer that station owners hire computer support personnel
to focus on computers, so you can focus on engineering? Do you think
station owners feel this is a good investment? If not, what do you
suppose would make them change their minds?
--gregbo
Powell E. Way III
>In article <john-15019...@bovine.ati.com>,
>John Higdon <jo...@bovine.ati.com> wrote:
>>As [Tim Pozar points] out, any engineer who does not keep up with
>>computers is ultimately out the door. But once the broadcast engineer
>>has those computing skills, he suddenly finds himself qualified for
>>some REAL jobs in some REAL industries.
>Questions for you or any other engineer who wishes to respond:
>Do you like using and maintaining computers? Why or why not?
Oh, we like using computers, but NOT working on them on an engineer's
pay. $150 an hour is computer consultant pay. Radio stations won't pay
anything like THAT!
>Do you feel that having computers at the station helps you in any way?
>Even if it does not help you directly, do you feel they are a benefit
>to the station as a whole?
Yes.
>Would you prefer that station owners hire computer support personnel
>to focus on computers, so you can focus on engineering?
Yes. they can then find out they have to shell out REAL money for REAL
work.
Do you think
>station owners feel this is a good investment?
This as in what? Computers? It can be a good aid. I don't know if I'd
use investment as the right word.
If not, what do you
>suppose would make them change their minds?
I guess you mean getting computers to aid in the operation of the
station. The answer to this is time.
John is right about people leaving broadcast engineering. Here in SC
many of the contract engineers are barely surviving. I can see it
now......the station manager can't find an engineer anymore.....
<dial dial dial....*RRRING*>
Joes TV shop
<manager> Can you come fix our transmitter>
<Joe> Well maybe? Can you bring it in?
<manager> Um, not really, it's 10,000 watts and rather large..
<Joe> Well my fee to come out is $200.......
<manager> GAAAASP!! <*KER-Thuddd!!!>
Jim Duncan
: Do you like using and maintaining computers? Why or why not?
Ever since I was a very small child, I've liked to fiddle with
machines and devices. Such thingsinitially had 117Z3s and 50C5s in them.
Then there were CK722s and 2N34s. Now they have Pentiums and SCSI buses.
It's all the same to me.
: Do you feel that having computers at the station helps you in any way?
: Even if it does not help you directly, do you feel they are a benefit
: to the station as a whole?
It's an - inevitable - major enhancement for efficiency and creativity.
: Would you prefer that station owners hire computer support personnel
: to focus on computers, so you can focus on engineering?
The computer support IS engineering now, for me anyway. It's NT,
Win95, and Linux. I may get dragged into Novell 3.12 also.
Do you think
: station owners feel this is a good investment?
Most of the capital budgeting seems to aim in this direction
these days - certainly where I work.
Jim Duncan
: However. I am a perfect example of what Jim Duncan was talking about when
: he said that by the time you learn about computers, you might as well
: go get a job IN computers that pays better :). I wanted to be a broadcast
: engineer for years, but found that computers pay much better, and now
: like John Higdon, radio is a part time job for me.
Actually, you left off the best part: Steve is just a few years out
of high school and now makes 24% more with his network administration
job than I made as full-time chief engineer of KWSS/KUFX - and my
corporate salary was quite good by area standards for broadcast
engineers.
He used to drive over to the studios in a junky old American car
with ripped upholstery to have lunch and check out my particular
engineering scene - just like I once would do years ago. Between
my negatory advice and his good sense, he moved into computers
and now drives a new sports sedan to a job which is fun in its
own way just like broadcasting can be.
Steve Rubin
>
>He used to drive over to the studios in a junky old American car
>with ripped upholstery to have lunch and check out my particular
>engineering scene - just like I once would do years ago. Between
>my negatory advice and his good sense, he moved into computers
>and now drives a new sports sedan to a job which is fun in its
>own way just like broadcasting can be.
-steve (whose glad he took Duncan's advice!)
Steve Rubin
Greg Skinner <g...@shellx.best.com> wrote:
>In article <4dhr49$c...@aimnet.aimnet.com>, Steve Rubin <s...@aimnet.com> wrote:
>>However. I am a perfect example of what Jim Duncan was talking about when
>>he said that by the time you learn about computers, you might as well
>>go get a job IN computers that pays better :). I wanted to be a broadcast
>>engineer for years, but found that computers pay much better, and now
>>like John Higdon, radio is a part time job for me.
>
>hosts or networks (unregistered hosts or networks with the same IP
>addresses of registered hosts or networks)?
I HATE THAT! It's one of my biggest pet peeves.
> Do you feel the same way
>about that as you do about pirate broadcasters, or licensed
>broadcasters who stretch the limits of their power and encroach on a
>coverage area you're trying to maintain?
>
While I have no personal problem with the idea of pirate broadcasting, It
really has come to the point where the spectrum is full, and they just need
to get out and get real jobs :). It is too easy for a "pirate" to splatter
the rest of us with nice clean signals. As far as the 2nd question, I used
to work at a station that instead of switching to night pattern, would
just drop the power from 10kw to 1kw... and then lie to the FCC about the
functionality of the phasing equipment. It was definetly not cool, and no
I won't name station :)
Greg Skinner
>However. I am a perfect example of what Jim Duncan was talking about when
>he said that by the time you learn about computers, you might as well
>go get a job IN computers that pays better :). I wanted to be a broadcast
>engineer for years, but found that computers pay much better, and now
>like John Higdon, radio is a part time job for me.
How do you feel about organizations that put up "illegal" Internet
hosts or networks (unregistered hosts or networks with the same IP
addresses of registered hosts or networks)? Do you feel the same way
about that as you do about pirate broadcasters, or licensed
broadcasters who stretch the limits of their power and encroach on a
coverage area you're trying to maintain?
--gregbo
Matt Ackeret
>skills required (that come from apprenticeship, not books or school), the
>on-call exposure, and the odd hours, fewer and fewer people are giving
At least at some point, won't the law of supply and demand
be more noticable when stations have to pay broadcast engineers more
to keep them from going to a computer company and just plain from the
small supply in general?
--
unk...@apple.com Apple II Forever
These opinions are mine, not Apple's.
po...@news.zeitgeist.net
: In a message to ALL dated 01-17-96 PO...@NEWS.ZEITGEIST.NET wrote:
: Po> Lately I find that most of my time is getting eaten up not doing radio
: Po> anymore but fixing, installing and design of computer systems. Some
: Po> times I long for the "good old days".
:
: Wait 'till your time gets eaten up not doing radio and computers
: anymore but dealing with budget forecasts, status report writing,
: personnel evaluations, being micromanaged from above and below,
: dealing with demanding management and irate customers, and
: having to play referee between exploding egos.
: Why do you think I retired?
:-)
Hate to tell you this Phil, but I have to do all of the above too in
managing the engineering department at KKSF/KDFC.
I may long for the "good old days", but I think I have both feet on the
ground to know that I enjoy my work (I just want more money), and know
that the grass is always greener...
Tim
John Higdon
(GZucker497) wrote:
> I recently saw a response from a John Higdon that stated that
> Engineers and Meter Reading Equipment are not necessary.
Keep up with the rules. The requirements for engineers as maintenance and
operations personel have been dropped. Specifics for remote equipment,
including calibration procedures and intervals have been dropped. Many
significant requirements for unattended operation have been dropped.
> Maybe he would like to share this information with us all?
The rules and regulations are out there for anyone to read for himself.
> Cause that certainly would cut down on the overhead that
> radio stations have.
That sort of thinking is one of the reasons engineers have moved on to
other fields.
> John Higdon -
>
> THE INNOVATOR OF NEW GROUND BREAKING IDEAS!
Why do I even bother to answer your stupid posts? Maybe I don't really
have enough to do!
Jim Duncan
: I recently saw a response from a John Higdon that stated that
: Engineers and Meter Reading Equipment are not necessary.
He's basically right. After several waves of deregulation and
particularly after Dec. 1, the number of statutory requirements
has dwindled to nearly the vanishing point. Engineers and metering
equipment may or may not be "necessary" in some given installation,
but generally speaking they are no longer "required" as such under
the letter of the law.
David A. Kaye
" Why do I even bother to answer your stupid posts? Maybe I don't really
" have enough to do!
You responded to an AOLhole (said so in the address). Long ago I put
*.aol.com into my killfile and don't even see those inanities anymore.
Life is much simpler now, and much less bothersome. I figure that if
posts from AOL and Prodigy people are important enough, someone else will
respond to them and quote the relevant parts, so I won't be missing
anything of earthshaking importance.
--
(c) 1996 3 times as many people live in the city of San
David Kaye Diego as live in the country of Luxembourg
Greg Skinner
Joe Buck <jb...@synopsys.com> wrote:
>You're trying to create an analogy to pirate broadcasters, but the analogy
>doesn't work. If someone tries to use an IP address that isn't theirs,
>they can't receive anything. They can send out packets with this IP
>address on them, but they won't get any replies; they'll all go to the
>official address holder. The network isn't disrupted that much.
I should've been more specific. I was referring to the practice of
advertising an IP (sub)net that is not registered and has the same
number as a registered (sub)net. This can be very disruptive to
people trying to reach their registered network. My ISP has been a
recent victim.
--gregbo
John Higdon
(GZucker497) wrote:
> There will always be a need to fix equipment that is associated
> with TV and radio stations, thus the always constant need for
> engineering skills.
Not when it is manufactured to be thrown away. Fortunately, transmitters
and other big-ticket items are not yet in that category. But the better an
engineer does his job, the less likely management seems willing to want to
pay him. After all, if everything is working reliably (because it is being
properly and expertly maintained), management begins to wonder why an
engineer is even required. "Why do we pay him all this money? Nothing ever
breaks."
> Maybe John Higdon should move on to another career, rather than
> the immature nerdly activities that encompass his life's calling
> on ba.broadcast. Get a life John.
No! It is much more fun giving you a bad time! I wouldn't take a life if
you gave it to me for free!
> Your only knowledge of life
> entails circuitry and transistor nerdliness, barring the rational
> and sensible interaction between man and woman, and man
> and man.
Oh, my! Cut right to the quick! I knew there was some sort of problem but
I had no idea that it involved sensible interactions. BTW, you forgot
woman and woman.
Well, at least my kitty likes me.
> You're just a big circuitry type nerd.
That wouldn't be Personal Attack (r) would it? What if I told you I lost
my pocket protector?
How much more time on your free ten hours? I'll count the minutes.
Larry J. Clark
In article <4du15g$4...@newsbf02.news.aol.com> GZucker497 wrote:
snip snip snip
>Gail Zucker
>Meida Watch Association
>Cupertino, California
MEIDA Watch...Is that something like a Casio, or more like a
Swatch? :-\
Just a windshield bug-splat on
the information superhighway!
or...
I want to die like my grandfather
peacefully in his sleep...
Not screaming in terror
like his passengers.
GZucker497
>Maybe John Higdon should move on to another career, rather than
>the immature nerdly activities that encompass his life's calling
>on ba.broadcast.
>>>Whoever you are, go to hell; Higdon is worth about ten of you
>>>I'm making some generous assumptions in your favor here, too).
>>>Rob T
The childish attacks and antics spewed by John Higdon taint his
character to a point of lessened worthiness before others. The
well meaning postings by many, are usually attacked and ridiculed
by John Higdon and other similarily minded ba.broadcast gang
nerds. This activity not only drives away well intentioned people
from participating in a group that truly needs diversity, but also
unfortunately shames the worth of the internet as a whole.
John Higdon and his aligned internet circuitry/transistor nerdly
creeps are the reason for the failure of this group. Unfortunately
they have decided to make it an "engineering" forum rather
than a group that discusses "all" aspects of ba.broadcast.
John Higdon and his cohorts are mere children, for their actions
only tell of this mindset.
Grow up John, and go get stuffed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Gail Zucker
Media Watch Association
Cupertino, California
John Higdon
(GZucker497) wrote:
> The childish attacks and antics spewed by John Higdon taint his
> character to a point of lessened worthiness before others.
In addition to everything else I have "tainted character"? I usually keep
it in the refrigerator, but I guess everything has a limited shelf life.
> The
> well meaning postings by many, are usually attacked and ridiculed
> by John Higdon and other similarily minded ba.broadcast gang
> nerds.
No, this is ridicule. You are the only one I actually ridicule.
Disagreeing with someone is NOT ridicule. Making fun of someone's
postings, as I am doing right here with yours is ridicule. Savor it.
> This activity not only drives away well intentioned people
> from participating in a group that truly needs diversity, but also
> unfortunately shames the worth of the internet as a whole.
But it doesn't seem to drive YOU away. Are you not "well intentiioned"? As
far as "shaming the internet as a whole", at least I do so without using
the "free time" on an ahole account.
> John Higdon and his aligned internet circuitry/transistor nerdly
> creeps are the reason for the failure of this group.
Did this group fail? At fifty-plus postings a day, I would hardly consider
that failure.
> John Higdon and his cohorts are mere children, for their actions
> only tell of this mindset.
Make that "child-like". To someone of my age, that is a compliment.
> Grow up John, and go get stuffed.
Good idea. What will it be today? Subway? Juicy Burger?
BTW, I have talked to some people about you who apparently WERE at liberty
to discuss some of your antics. You're not a very nice dude.
So when IS your free AOL time going to run out? How many more disks do you have?
OK, I've had my fun. I'll stop wasting any more time on you.
Robert Thurlow
GZucker497 <gzuck...@aol.com> wrote:
>Maybe John Higdon should move on to another career, rather than
>the immature nerdly activities that encompass his life's calling
>on ba.broadcast.
Whoever you are, go to hell; Higdon is worth about ten of you
(I'm making some generous assumptions in your favor here, too).
Rob T
Anthony Severdia
In <4du1vu$4...@daryl.scsn.net> pow...@scsn.net (Powell E. Way III) writes:
>
>gzuck...@aol.com (GZucker497) wrote:
>
>This is the biggest bunch of cow poop I have read here in a LONG time.
>
>
>
>John's right...you are wrong......................P E R I OD !
>
>Powell (sheesh!!!)
>
>
>
>>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>>Gail Zucker
>>Meida Watch Association
>>Cupertino, California
>
RIGHT ON, Powell! Who is this miserable Gail Zucker to qualify
her to come on harpooning one of the BEST in the business?????
Gawd! (I'll refrain from saying more ...don't want to start a
flame war with this self-appointed "do-de-doo-gooder").
Anthony
Jim Duncan
: You're just a big circuitry type nerd.
For creativity, this post ranks right up there with some of the
best writing in Monty Python's Holy Grail, which I've seen at least
14 times. I love it.
R R M Tweek
>
> Maybe I'm the only one here that has never heard of you or Media
>Watch before, but when you start attcking people that others obviosly
>respect it makes me wonder about the credentials of the attacker.
Media Watch is a Watchdog organization which keeps an eye out for
Satanic intrusions in the broadcast industry. When such evils are
spotted in a facility, Media Watch sends in one of their agents who
tries to exorcise the evil demons. It is no coincidence that the
agent appears to be a raving lunatic, as it is known that even evil
demons would not want to inhabit the soul of such a kook.
[Phew! I'm surprised I kept a straight face through that.]
--
tw...@netcom.com tw...@tweekco.ness.com tw...@io.com DoD #MCMLX SP-3
Fodder-Line: Rogue Agent Hubbard Thetan Scientology Clear OT Course Clam
http://www.io.com/~tweek/ tw...@ccnet.com OT-7 Dr. Doo's little Llama
Brian Harper
writes:
>The childish attacks and antics spewed by John Higdon taint his
>character to a point of lessened worthiness before others.
"Go get stuffed" and something like "You are nothing but a turkey" and
calling people transistor nerds have graced your previous posts. I
assume that you admit that your character is tainted too?
> The
>well meaning postings by many, are usually attacked and ridiculed
>by John Higdon and other similarily minded ba.broadcast gang
>nerds.
Gang nerds. Cool. You're right Jim Duncan - this does sound like a
Monty Python skit. The Merc headline will read "Six burned in soldering
iron fighting" while they have turf wars. You'll see neat stensiled
schematic graffitti on the sides of buildings where they congregate -
Quement, Radio Shack, Fry's, Zack, NCA. It'll be the RC's and the TTL's
vieing for control of cache distribution area. It'll be just like the
Bloods and Crips, but with pocket protectors, bow ties, tape around the
middle of their glasses, and their pants hiked up too high.
> This activity not only drives away well intentioned people
Since you are still here, I would assume that you admit by your own
argument that you are not well intentioned?
>from participating in a group that truly needs diversity, but also
>unfortunately shames the worth of the internet as a whole.
Calling people turkeys and telling them to get stuffed to support your
arguments isn't shameful? This will entice people to participate?
(well, I guess you've gotten me to speak up...)
>
>John Higdon and his aligned internet circuitry/transistor nerdly
>creeps are the reason for the failure of this group. Unfortunately
>they have decided to make it an "engineering" forum rather
>than a group that discusses "all" aspects of ba.broadcast.
>John Higdon and his cohorts are mere children, for their actions
>only tell of this mindset.
Read that last paragraph again before the punchline.....
>
>Grow up John, and go get stuffed.
>
>
>
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Gail Zucker
>Media Watch Association
>Cupertino, California
So who is Gail Zucker? And what is Media Watch? Does she hold an office
or is she just a member? How do I join? What are the qualifications?
How old is it? Are the main offices in the Bay Area?
Brian Harper bha...@ix.netcom.com
Brian Harper
writes:
>There will always be a need to fix equipment that is associated
>with TV and radio stations, thus the always constant need for
>engineering skills.
There will always be a need, yes. But as KKUP illustrates, there
may not always be a desire.
>
>Maybe John Higdon should move on to another career, rather than
>the immature nerdly activities that encompass his life's calling
>on ba.broadcast. Get a life John.
I have a question. Who are you?
Maybe I'm the only one here that has never heard of you or Media
Watch before, but when you start attcking people that others obviosly
respect it makes me wonder about the credentials of the attacker.
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>Gail Zucker
>Meida Watch Association
>Cupertino, California
Brian Harper, Radio Engineering Nerd bha...@ix.netcom.com
Phil Kane
Gz> I recently saw a response from a John Higdon that stated that
Gz> Engineers and Meter Reading Equipment are not necessary.
Did he say "not necessary"? I'm sure that he meant NO LONGER
REQUIRED. Necessary they still are.
Gz> Maybe he would like to share this information with us all?
Gee, all the pros in the SBE/BABES (we devoted a whole meeting
to this and what it meant) and those station managers who are
regularly in touch with their communications counsel knew that
the FCC Rules were so changed in late November 1995. (At least
all of MY broadcast clients were so informed).
Gz> Cause that certainly would cut down on the overhead that
Gz> radio stations have.
The late Howie Immekus, the beloved founder of BABES, who "died
in the saddle" as the Chief Engineer of KCBS almost 20 years
ago, used to say that there were folks at CBS headquarters who
felt that the station could be super-profitable if they could
find a way to do away with the transmitter and associated power
and maintenance costs.
May Howie rest in peace ......
Gz> THE INNOVATOR OF NEW GROUND BREAKING IDEAS!
No, we can thank our elders and betters on the 8th Floor ("Dereg
Central") for this "new ground breaking idea".
Phil Kane, Esq.
Communications Law Center
San Francisco, CA
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Internet: phil...@toadhall.com (Phil Kane)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Powell E. Way III
>There will always be a need to fix equipment that is associated
>with TV and radio stations, thus the always constant need for
>engineering skills.
Yes, at VERY low wages. On some parts of the East Coast The pay is
well under $30,000 a year. One unnamed station wanted to pay an
Engineer $20,000 a year FULL time. And you wonder why all the good
talent is leaving? SHEESH!
>Maybe John Higdon should move on to another career, rather than
>the immature nerdly activities that encompass his life's calling
>on ba.broadcast.
Oh Bullshit.
Get a life John.
He does. A lot better than yours from the likes of your post.
Your only knowledge of life
>entails circuitry and transistor nerdliness, barring the rational
>and sensible interaction between man and woman, and man
>and man.
>You're just a big circuitry type nerd.
This is the biggest bunch of cow poop I have read here in a LONG time.
John's right...you are wrong......................P E R I OD !
Powell (sheesh!!!)
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Don Hackler
>
> In article <4du15g$4...@newsbf02.news.aol.com>, gzuck...@aol.com
> (GZucker497) wrote:
>
> > There will always be a need to fix equipment that is associated
> > with TV and radio stations, thus the always constant need for
> > engineering skills.
>
> and other big-ticket items are not yet in that category. But the better an
> engineer does his job, the less likely management seems willing to want to
> pay him. After all, if everything is working reliably (because it is being
> properly and expertly maintained), management begins to wonder why an
> engineer is even required. "Why do we pay him all this money? Nothing ever
> breaks."
I've been through this at several stations. You put up with the junk they
bought because it was in the same building as the license. You
spend a bunch of time nursing the old equipment along with little or no
backup equipment or help. You keep a station sounding respectable and
reliable in spite of the hassles. You get fed up, move to another station
after a couple or three years to start over. The new guy follows you
at the old station, he can't keep the junk running, so they just start
replacing the equipment that you've been pestering them about.
The jocks bring you their greasy headphones to be repaired...
The Sales Manager wants you to install a car stereo...
You end up playing facilities manager, dealing with A/C, mowing,
plumbing, office building owners (banks are the worst),
beat up transmitter sites.
Oh, and you are the only person who has a clue about any of
the computer equipment, ranging from the on-air systems to
the junker PC's they traded for five years earlier.
And then they sell a bunch of remotes both early morning and
late at night on the weekend that you've gotta deal with.
24 by 7 on call. Period.
At least in Texas, for all this joy they'll pay about what they
pay the mid-day jock. In California, it seems to be about
equivalent to what a beginning software engineer gets paid.
Most of my buddies who are still in radio engineering have to
do network and computer admin or other business on the side,
as well as do a couple of other stations just to make ends meet.
Radio/TV is a strange occupation, though, it's hard to quit.
I had to move on; I couldn't afford to stay in broadcasting
even though I would like to, but I make 3 or 4 times what I
would make in radio doing software.
> > Maybe John Higdon should move on to another career, rather than
> > the immature nerdly activities that encompass his life's calling
> > on ba.broadcast. Get a life John.
John has a life. Several careers, too.
And he's not afraid to use his real name and the net connections he pays
for to speak his mind in a clear and rational manner.
--
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Don Hackler
do...@sigma.net
do...@shakala.com
do...@rahul.net
Greg Skinner
Don Hackler <do...@netscape.com> wrote:
>Radio/TV is a strange occupation, though, it's hard to quit.
Why do you suppose this is? I've heard a lot of other radio/TV people
say this. Even people who have to leave the business regret it a lot,
and try to find some way to stay involved with it.
Do you feel the same way about the computer industry (particularly the
software industry)?
--gregbo
Van C. Bagnol
: Don Hackler <do...@netscape.com> wrote:
: >Radio/TV is a strange occupation, though, it's hard to quit.
Greg Skinner (Greg Skinner (g...@shellx.best.com)) wrote:
: Why do you suppose this is? I've heard a lot of other radio/TV people
: say this. Even people who have to leave the business regret it a lot,
: and try to find some way to stay involved with it.
: Do you feel the same way about the computer industry (particularly the
: software industry)?
The phenomenon transcends the broadcast industry. Many 'for-the-love-
of-it' professions have people that come back, despite the stress,
overwork, and underpay (or reduction in salary).
Stage actors, roadies, even clerks on the stock exchange all get paid
much less than the time they put in, and come back even when the
prospects of financial reward are slim. There are a lot of coders who
are quite happy coding although salary (and/or stock options) is a
large motivator.
Van
--
Van Bagnol / v...@crl.com / (707) 552-7228 vox / (707) 575-8334 fax
Hawksbill Capital Management - Santa Rosa, CA / (707) 575-7077
"Parang lumalakad ako sa loob ng panaginip" / Teatro ng Tanan / Windsurfing
Jim Duncan
: Why do you suppose this is? I've heard a lot of other radio/TV people
: say this. Even people who have to leave the business regret it a lot,
: and try to find some way to stay involved with it.
Any performance art business/activity has this same allure. Dancers,
actors, etc. would similarly complain about a crappy professional
setting, but they "have" to do it just the same.
Probably the best way to handle this in life is to have the
decent computer related day job and then do radio, dance, musical
theater or whatever as an after-hours avocation.