The Case Against "Jazz-91"
Bang
of how good KCSM-FM USED to be. I knew people who worked there during
the late '80s and early '90s when the station began it transition to
full-time jazz. I supported the station prior to the format change,
primarily because of the great eclectic programming it offered--and
also because I enjoyed hearing Broadcasting Arts students at the San
Mateo J.C. performing a variety of on-air duties; it made me feel like
some of our tax dollars were being put to good use.
I tune to 91.1 only occasionally these days, because I'm not a
dyed-in-the-wool jazz fan. Few radio listeners are, and "Jazz-91" has
never really been very welcoming to "outsiders"--I've always been
annoyed at it's thinly-veiled, snooty and elitist
"if-it-ain't-jazz-it's-shit" attitude towards other styles of music.
This is a far cry from the station's glory days, when it almost
literally offered something for everyone. There were great NPR
programs and many excellent, locally-produced shows--especially on the
weekends. A few stand-outs come to mind immediately:
"Bluegrass Sunday"--five hours of superb bluegrass with revolving
weekly hosts. This was a tremendously popular show and a big
money-maker for the station during pledge-athons.
"Regards To Broadway" with Joe Marchi--one of the most
knowledgeable experts on musicals in the entire world.
"American Pop"--featuring an astonishing variety of genre-crossing
music from the '50s to the '70s--stuff you'd never hear anywhere else
on the dial.
And there were many others as well (I always really enjoyed the
weeknight all-night classical music, too). I can't see how playing
jazz 24/7 serves the listener community better than eclectic
programming. It's been said that jazz has attracted more listeners to
KCSM than during its last pre-jazz years. But I've talked to people
who were there at the time, and they reported that the station's
pre-jazz management never lifted a finger to promote the station at
any time. I'd think a jazz format limits the station's POTENTIAL
audience severely.
And the Broadcasting Arts students are surely suffering because of the
jazz format. Prior to jazz, you could hear students on the air at all
times of the day doing announcing, newscasts, public affairs shows,
spinning records. Now, a student's lucky to get a non-creative
graveyard shift once in a while. I mean, does the College of San
Mateo even HAVE a radio Broadcasting Arts department anymore? And
wasn't student education and experience the primary reason for putting
KCSM on the air in the first place?
I've heard the jocks at KCSM chatter on endlessly how "jazz is
America's only indigenous art form." So the hell what??! There's a
reason why there are virtually no jazz stations left in America: there
aren't very many jazz fans.
I wish the idiots at the San Mateo County Community College District
would wise up and put this multi-million dollar broadast medium to
much better use. To the overwhelming majority of Bay Area radio
listeners, "Jazz-91" is a complete waste.
B.V.
David Kaye
> I enjoyed hearing Broadcasting Arts students at the San
> Mateo J.C. performing a variety of on-air duties; it made me feel like
> some of our tax dollars were being put to good use.
It was the training ground for Giant's baseball and ESPN great, Jon
Miller (who's originally from Hayward), and also KGO's Michael Amatori
(winner of several radio production awards). I went there, too. KCSM
has a great legacy of having a broadcating school that was real-life,
staffed by experienced broadcaster teachers.
> I tune to 91.1 only occasionally these days, because I'm not a
> dyed-in-the-wool jazz fan. Few radio listeners are, and "Jazz-91" has
> never really been very welcoming to "outsiders"--I've always been
> annoyed at it's thinly-veiled, snooty and elitist
> "if-it-ain't-jazz-it's-shit" attitude towards other styles of music.
Not only that, but they have a very narrow idea of jazz. I promote a
band made up of members who have recorded on several occasions with
Tom Waits, and have a new idea of jazz. The sax player can easily be
thought of as the Jimi Hendrix of jazz. The bass player is the best
I've heard in my life (jazz and classical chops, who plays nearly
every night with everything from classical to funk bands), and a
drummer who can get more sounds out of drum kit that any mortal.
And yet try to get their CD played on KCSM-FM? I've given up trying.
You know where they get played? KALX, KUSF, etc. The sax player was
so disgusted with our inability to break into the club and radio
circuits that he gave up and moved to New York. He comes out here
every few months to play, but he knows that he'll never break through
here unless he's identified as New York. Maybe then, the columnists
at the Chron will write about him or the band. But, I'm not holding
my breath.
> This is a far cry from the station's glory days, when it almost
> literally offered something for everyone. There were great NPR
> programs and many excellent, locally-produced shows--especially on the
> weekends. A few stand-outs come to mind immediately:
It's funny. When the job of general manager opened up there some
years back, I applied and suggested in my letter that they move to an
all-jazz format, knowing that KJAZ's days were numbered. And KMHD
(Mt. Hood College) in Portland had a successful position in that
market as a jazzer. Well, they didn't hire me, but took my idea. In
retrospect, I think it was a bad decision for the art of broadcasting,
for the reasons you state.
> And there were many others as well (I always really enjoyed the
> weeknight all-night classical music, too). I can't see how playing
> jazz 24/7 serves the listener community better than eclectic
> programming.
As far as I'm concerned, jazz is dead. In fact, someone I know has
actually put together a "Jazz Is Dead" series of concerts at Bruno's
in SF, to highlight the new-jazz bands that can't break into the
stuffy, conservative jazz venues and festivals. It's unthinkable to
imagine that jazz could ever become a conservative old-fart music, but
jazz has become that way. I can't stand listening to it anymore, save
the new-jazz bands.
The demise of the jazz clubs a couple years ago points this out. Now,
of course, suddenly a bunch of jazz clubs have opened, but it's the
same old same old. They'd prefer to have old geezers sleepwalking
their way through "Satin Doll" while their audience ignores them and
drinks their cosmos.
> It's been said that jazz has attracted more listeners to
> KCSM than during its last pre-jazz years. But I've talked to people
> who were there at the time, and they reported that the station's
> pre-jazz management never lifted a finger to promote the station at
> any time. I'd think a jazz format limits the station's POTENTIAL
> audience severely.
An excellent point, and one I agree with.
Eric Ferguson
due to KCSM. It's programmed in on all of my programmable radios. I enjoy
Jazz, Classical, getting some interest in CW, and loved KKDV(?) before it
was *The Bear*. Loved the eclectic oldies rock. (And just recently heard
KPIG for the first time recently, wish I could get it up here in Concord!!!)
As for a *complete waste* of air and frequency, any station that plays Rap
(read CRap), and Heavy Metal. All sounds the same to me, whereas Jazz has a
*live and fresh* sound to it. No matter how old the track.
Oh well, my 2 cents.....Eric
George Sampson
>
> This is a far cry from the station's glory days...
> "Bluegrass Sunday"--five hours of superb bluegrass with revolving
> weekly hosts. This was a tremendously popular show and a big
> money-maker for the station during pledge-athons.
>
even for those of us who, like myself, are only marginally interested
in bluegrass. Some mighty fine toe-tapping tunes on that show.
> I've heard the jocks at KCSM chatter on endlessly how "jazz is
> America's only indigenous art form."
Huh? Haven't these people heard of Rock and Roll? (May the ghost of
Wolfman Jack have mercy on them!)
While I have no problem with a jazz format, per se, I agree that the
College Of San Mateo should use it's station, at least in part, as a
training facility for students who wish to pursue careers in
broadcasting. Does anyone know if they still have any "student"
shifts? (Overnights? Weekends?)
Eric Weaver
> While I have no problem with a jazz format, per se, I agree that the
> College Of San Mateo should use it's station, at least in part, as a
> training facility for students who wish to pursue careers in
> broadcasting. Does anyone know if they still have any "student"
> shifts? (Overnights? Weekends?)
The college, in a budget issue totally unrelated to the station, cut the
Broadcast Arts department entirely. There are no students to man either the
TV or Radio side any more. Students used to do overnights and weekends; now
overnights are Bob Parlocha off WFMT's service and weekends are old regulars.
Sigh.
Bang
> The college, in a budget issue totally unrelated to the station, cut the
> Broadcast Arts department entirely. There are no students to man either the
> TV or Radio side any more. Students used to do overnights and weekends; now
> overnights are Bob Parlocha off WFMT's service and weekends are old regulars.
>
> Sigh.
Great--a junior college radio station with no students. This is
outrageous considering that KCSM was primarily a training vehicle for
the Broadcasting Arts department when it first went on-air 40 years
ago!
At the very least, the college district trustees should dismantle the
"Jazz-91" format or restrict jazz programming to a limited percentage
of the broadcast day. If there aren't going to be any student
operators, KCSM-FM should be turned into a true community station run
by volunteers, with the district supervising and offering minimal
training (or that training could be done by qualified volunteers as
well).
KCSM should become more to Bay Area radio listeners than just a
subsidized and inferior KJAZ retread. Enough is enough.
B.V.
Eric C. Weaver
> Great--a junior college radio station with no students. This is
> outrageous considering that KCSM was primarily a training vehicle for
> the Broadcasting Arts department when it first went on-air 40 years
> ago!
Not that I'm pleased about this state of affairs, but do you know about KCRW
at Santa Monica College? I that's a far more egregious example, not even
counting the recent Sandra Tsing Loh incident.
--
"Without music to decorate it, time is just a bunch of boring
production deadlines or dates by which bills must be paid." --FZ
David Kaye
> Great--a junior college radio station with no students. This is
> outrageous considering that KCSM was primarily a training vehicle for
> the Broadcasting Arts department when it first went on-air 40 years
> ago!
The FCC has ruled that the training of students is not a reason to
license a radio station. Stations are licensed to serve the public
interest, convenience, and necessity, not to train students. Thus,
the training of students cannot be used in the ascertainment of
community needs or any other yardstick used for justifying the
granting or renewal of a station license.
There are many other college and high-school owned stations across the
U.S. that do not use student staffs. KBPS-FM in Portland (Benson
Polytechnic School) is a classical station with no student connection
whatever. I don't believe KSOR and its mountain of co-owned stations
at Southern Oregon University (that is, Jefferson Public Radio) has
any student staff, either. And they must have about 25 stations by
now.
John Higdon
sfdavi...@yahoo.com (David Kaye) wrote:
> Bang_V...@yahoo.com (Bang) wrote:
>
> > Great--a junior college radio station with no students. This is
> > outrageous considering that KCSM was primarily a training vehicle for
> > the Broadcasting Arts department when it first went on-air 40 years
> > ago!
>
> The FCC has ruled that the training of students is not a reason to
> license a radio station. Stations are licensed to serve the public
> interest, convenience, and necessity, not to train students. Thus,
> the training of students cannot be used in the ascertainment of
> community needs or any other yardstick used for justifying the
> granting or renewal of a station license.
You don't need a radio station to train on-air people. All you need is a
facility that simulates a real-world production plant. The resultant
product need not actually hit the airwaves. A radio station is essential
to train engineers (of the type that can actually do and fix things
rather than endlessly theorize), but most schools don't bother with that
end of the industry, anyway.
--
John Higdon | Email Address Valid | SF: +1 415 428-COWS
+1 408 264 4115 | Anytown, USA | FAX: +1 408 264 4407
Bang
> The FCC has ruled that the training of students is not a reason to
> license a radio station. Stations are licensed to serve the public
> interest, convenience, and necessity, not to train students. Thus,
> the training of students cannot be used in the ascertainment of
> community needs or any other yardstick used for justifying the
> granting or renewal of a station license.
Typical regulatory nonsense. Despite that FCC ruling, the fact is
that KCSM is owned by the San Mateo County Community College District
and was used primarily for training students since coming on-air in
1964. The station was pretty much student-run until the change to a
24/7 jazz format. So going from student-run to no students at all is
pretty appalling. The present all-jazz format is pretty appalling as
well--and not "serving the public interest," in my opinion.
B.V.
Phil Kane
>There are many other college and high-school owned stations across the
>U.S. that do not use student staffs. KBPS-FM in Portland (Benson
>Polytechnic School) is a classical station with no student connection
>whatever.
AFAIK KBPS (AM and FM) have become "Foundationized") and are no
longer connected with the school - at least that's what they say
during pledge drives (I'm a paying member).
KMHD-FM, the jazz NCE in Portland, is still connected to Mt. Hood
Community College District but uses no student labor either.
I don't believe KSOR and its mountain of co-owned stations
>at Southern Oregon University (that is, Jefferson Public Radio) has
>any student staff, either. And they must have about 25 stations by
>now.
Another example.
--
Phil Kane
From a Clearing in the Silicon Forest
Beaverton (Washington County) Oregon
Phil Kane
>Typical regulatory nonsense.
Don't knock it. I feed my family as a regulatory professional.
Bring your phrase above into any court or hearing proceeding and see
how far you get... <ggg>
>Despite that FCC ruling, the fact is
>that KCSM is owned by the San Mateo County Community College District
>and was used primarily for training students since coming on-air in
>1964. The station was pretty much student-run until the change to a
>24/7 jazz format. So going from student-run to no students at all is
>pretty appalling. The present all-jazz format is pretty appalling as
>well--and not "serving the public interest," in my opinion.
Wanna start a pool as to how long will it be before KCSM is
"Foundationized" ??
--
Phil Kane
Eric Weaver
> Typical regulatory nonsense. Despite that FCC ruling, the fact is
> that KCSM is owned by the San Mateo County Community College District
> and was used primarily for training students since coming on-air in
> 1964. The station was pretty much student-run until the change to a
> 24/7 jazz format. So going from student-run to no students at all is
> pretty appalling. The present all-jazz format is pretty appalling as
> well--and not "serving the public interest," in my opinion.
KOHL 89.3 in Fremont is all student-run. Do you think they serve the public
interest, convenence and necessity better than KCSM? If so, how exactly?
For that matter, so are KALX, KFJC and half the time KUSF. How about them?
Also, remember that it was far from KCSM's idea to lose the broadcast arts
department. Hard to be student-operated when there are no students.
John Higdon
Eric Weaver <we...@sigma.net> wrote:
> KOHL 89.3 in Fremont is all student-run. Do you think they serve the public
> interest, convenence and necessity better than KCSM? If so, how exactly?
Actually, the interns that come out of Ohlone seem to be of high
caliber. I would have to say that KOHL in its current context is
certainly serving the students, the school, and by extension, the
industry nicely.
> Also, remember that it was far from KCSM's idea to lose the broadcast arts
> department. Hard to be student-operated when there are no students.
So I take it that the station is a revenue generator for the school. I
can't imagine keeping it alive if the flow were the other way. I wonder
who is better served: the public or the school.
Eric Weaver
> In article <405b9547$1...@news.announcetech.com>,
> Eric Weaver <we...@sigma.net> wrote:
>
>
>>KOHL 89.3 in Fremont is all student-run. Do you think they serve the public
>>interest, convenence and necessity better than KCSM? If so, how exactly?
>
>
> Actually, the interns that come out of Ohlone seem to be of high
> caliber. I would have to say that KOHL in its current context is
> certainly serving the students, the school, and by extension, the
> industry nicely.
There's a reason I picked that example...
The unspoken part being that they emulate a commercial pop station (for
varying values of "pop"). Is Bang's argument about student training to fit in
the industry, student self-expression (for which, see KFJC, KALX & KUSF), or
just what?
> So I take it that the station is a revenue generator for the school. I
> can't imagine keeping it alive if the flow were the other way. I wonder
> who is better served: the public or the school.
It at least pays its own way, that much I know. One could argue that if they
weren't serving the public, the listener donation income wouldn't be
sufficient to do so.
John Higdon
Eric Weaver <we...@sigma.net> wrote:
> The unspoken part being that they emulate a commercial pop station (for
> varying values of "pop"). Is Bang's argument about student training to fit
> in
> the industry, student self-expression (for which, see KFJC, KALX & KUSF), or
> just what?
I can tell you what I think might be the most useful to students. Hint:
it is something that is in short supply in many schools.
> It at least pays its own way, that much I know. One could argue that if they
> weren't serving the public, the listener donation income wouldn't be
> sufficient to do so.
Nice. All they have to do is adjust the format to align with moneyed
listeners who tend to contribute to nominal non-comms.
Eric Weaver
> Nice. All they have to do is adjust the format to align with moneyed
> listeners who tend to contribute to nominal non-comms.
Shrug. Is KQED non-commercial? I suspect its manglement live well off it. I
can tell you nobody at KCSM is rolling in clover.
Mark Roberts
| Eric Weaver <we...@sigma.net> wrote:
|
|> It at least pays its own way, that much I know. One could argue that if they
|> weren't serving the public, the listener donation income wouldn't be
|> sufficient to do so.
|
| Nice. All they have to do is adjust the format to align with moneyed
| listeners who tend to contribute to nominal non-comms.
Well, so? It's the market at work. The alternative is full-out
government support. Pick your strings. They're always there.
--
"You're about to see a great sunset if you're in the right place."
-- KCBS morning traffic anchor, 6.58 am, February 9, 2004
Mike Ward
Roberts) wrote:
>Well, whatever. There's nothing that says a college-run radio
>station has to be run by students or serve as a training ground for
>students. More than a few don't fall into either category.
Like, for example, Sacramento State's KXPR/KXJZ, which is entirely
professionally run, and generally well regarded. KXJZ still does
jazz, I believe, in evenings and weekends.
Mike
John Higdon
Eric Weaver <we...@sigma.net> wrote:
Funny, I don't actually think of KQED as non-commercial. I look at it as
a different kind of commercial.
Ciccio
> As for a *complete waste* of air and frequency, any station that plays Rap
> (read CRap), and Heavy Metal. All sounds the same to me, whereas Jazz has
> a *live and fresh* sound to it. No matter how old the track.
Not only isn't KCSM a waste, but it may very well be ahead of the [second]
curve...
http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2643833
Ciccio
Bang
> Not only isn't KCSM a waste, but it may very well be ahead of the [second]
> curve...
>
> http://news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm?id=2643833
>
> Ciccio
Don't think so. "Jazz" as described in that article is BARELY
jazz, if it is at all. Today, most radio listeners think of "jazz" as
being from vocalists like Norah Jones, Harry Connick Jr. and the like.
But they're really more pop than jazz.
I still maintain that a 24/7 jazz format on KCSM-FM is a waste.
The San Mateo Community College District can do much more with the
station and attract a much larger audience. But I suspect that
little, if anything will change on "Jazz-91." It's somewhat like what
goes on in Hollywood. Although studies have shown that G-rated films
make much more profit than the R-rated fare, studios would rather lose
money on the R-rated flicks than lose the ego strokes from their
industry peers--the G-rated stuff just isn't "hip." I think the same
is true with the trustees who control KCSM--they'd rather keep a dead
format than risk looking uncool for dumping the jazz.
B.V.
Ciccio
news:137f73b6.0403...@posting.google.com...
> Don't think so. "Jazz" as described in that article is BARELY
> jazz, if it is at all. Today, most radio listeners think of "jazz" as
> being from vocalists like Norah Jones, Harry Connick Jr. and the like.
> But they're really more pop than jazz.
Whether it is jazz or not, that's not the point. The point is that KCSM
plays them, in addition to others. Thus, KCSM is right in the trend, if
not ahead of the curve, described in the article.
Ciccio
Eric Weaver
> I still maintain that a 24/7 jazz format on KCSM-FM is a waste.
> The San Mateo Community College District can do much more with the
> station and attract a much larger audience. But I suspect that
> little, if anything will change on "Jazz-91."
So, just out of curiosity, what do you think they should do with it, that
isn't already being done by KALW, KQED and/or KPFA?
David Kaye
> Don't think so. "Jazz" as described in that article is BARELY
> jazz, if it is at all. Today, most radio listeners think of "jazz" as
> being from vocalists like Norah Jones, Harry Connick Jr. and the like.
> But they're really more pop than jazz.
Indeed, most people are very ignorant of music genres. They accept
anything as "jazz" if it's mellow. But true jazz is an avant garde
("front guard") genre. It's radical, not mellow. When various jazz
greats came out with their particular styles they were derided by the
mainstream. Jazz performers were considered to be devil worshippers
by the fundamentalist Christians.
In fact, even today's jazz clubs are booking very banal performers who
wouldn't know true jazz if it bit them.
Real jazz is interesting, innovative, cutting-edge. Today's real jazz
incorporates things such as hip-hop, beatboxes, etc. It incorporates
unusual instrumentation from such instruments as pump organs,
trombones, and cellos.
Today's real jazz is clearly NOT "Satin Doll" or even "Killer Joe".
What I hear on KCSM-FM may have been jazz in the 1950s or 70s, but
it's not jazz today. Jazz is a moving target.
> I still maintain that a 24/7 jazz format on KCSM-FM is a waste.
From my perspective it is. From the perspective of a station
providing programming not heard on commercial radio, it isn't a waste
at all, just as classical stations are not a waste, though classical
is just as dead as jazz.
From my perspective, non-comm stations need to do much more to promote
current music that is not played. It's amazing when you think of it,
but well over 99% of the music out there will never be played on the
radio, and yet a good 10% of that 99% is some amazing stuff.
> The San Mateo Community College District can do much more with the
> station and attract a much larger audience.
If the idea is to attract a much larger audience, they can simply go
all hip-hop and get grants from Lucky Strike and Absolut. The point
of public radio (at least, according to the mission statement of KPFA,
the first community-oriented radio station) is to serve the
under-served listeners, NOT to be mainstream.
Bang
> Is Bang's argument about student training to fit in
> the industry, student self-expression (for which, see KFJC, KALX & KUSF), or
> just what?
Actually, Eric, it's both. Prior to KCSM-FM becoming a jazz "one
trick pony," it's very eclectic format afforded Broadcasting Arts
students really great experience that they could take with them to a
wide variety of different stations. Students there used to get
exposed to jazz, pop, classical, world music, bluegrass--you name it,
they learned about it. They also got to produce and host daily news
shows, sports events, public affairs shows, etc.--and all THAT stopped
with the changeover to 24/7 jazz And that kind of experience is much
more valuable than a resume that simply says "All they ever let me do
was spin jazz records on the graveyard shift once in awhile."
B.V.
Ciccio
> Indeed, most people are very ignorant of music genres. They accept
> anything as "jazz" if it's mellow. But true jazz is an avant garde
> ("front guard") genre. It's radical, not mellow.
There is a great many jazz musicians and fans who *totally* disagree by
saying that is not jazz at all. Myself, I don't engage in such internecine
arguments. I'm really radical...I listen to what I enjoy...and I enjoy
various jazz works from all eras
> When various jazz greats came out with their particular styles they were
> derided by the mainstream. Jazz performers were considered to be
> devil worshippers by the fundamentalist Christians.
Even more so as to rock n' roll.
> In fact, even today's jazz clubs are booking very banal performers who
> wouldn't know true jazz if it bit them.
That's nothing new. They've always been around...always will be.
> Real jazz is interesting, innovative, cutting-edge. Today's real jazz
> incorporates things such as hip-hop, beatboxes, etc.
No longer cutting edge. Today's college grads were in middle, if not
elementary, school when that started. Heck, the long time standard bearer of
jazz Blue Note Records signed the hip-hop-jazz group Us3 in the early 90's.
> Today's real jazz is clearly NOT "Satin Doll" or even "Killer Joe".
> What I hear on KCSM-FM may have been jazz in the 1950s or 70s, but
> it's not jazz today. Jazz is a moving target.
That's absurd. That's like saying grandparents aren't part of a family. Of
course, jazz evolves. That's what is great about jazz, it evolves at a
greater pace than any other music genre. The seminal works, however,
doesn't cease being jazz. I am a frequent, but not constant, KCSM listener.
It fills the niche for ol' school jazz, peppered with some blues and
avant-garde. I'm glad it's around.
Ciccio
Alison Chaiken
Eric Weaver writes:
>Not that I'm pleased about this state of affairs, but do you know
>about KCRW at Santa Monica College? I that's a far more egregious
>example, not even counting the recent Sandra Tsing Loh incident.
Okay Eric, now you have to tell us the whole story.
Currently listening to: a recording of Art Crimes filling in for Ann
Arbor on last Wednesday morning.
--
Alison Chaiken "From:" address above is valid.
(650) 236-2231 [daytime] http://www.wsrcc.com/alison/
With how many things are we upon the brink of becoming acquainted, if
cowardice or carelessness did not restrain our enquiries. -- Mary
Shelley, _Frankenstein_
Mark Roberts
|
| Eric Weaver writes:
| >Not that I'm pleased about this state of affairs, but do you know
| >about KCRW at Santa Monica College? I that's a far more egregious
| >example, not even counting the recent Sandra Tsing Loh incident.
|
| Okay Eric, now you have to tell us the whole story.
Check out http://www.laobserved.com/ -- an excellent blargh (which
coming from me, is high praise indeed, since I think most blarghs
are self-indulgent crap) that provides solid coverage of Los
Angeles media. There are several entries regarding Loh.
Eric C. Weaver
> Eric Weaver writes:
>
>>Not that I'm pleased about this state of affairs, but do you know
>>about KCRW at Santa Monica College? I that's a far more egregious
>>example, not even counting the recent Sandra Tsing Loh incident.
>
>
> Okay Eric, now you have to tell us the whole story.
Which whole story?
>
> Currently listening to: a recording of Art Crimes filling in for Ann
> Arbor on last Wednesday morning.
[waxing nostalgic] I've filled in for Ann Arbor, using the name "Red Bluff".
It seemed to fit the naming theme...