VooDoo Cycles BANNED from Mountain Bike Action
Roger Marquis
>In a rare move in the bicycle industry, VooDoo Cycles, pioneer of the
>"value-priced customization" marketing concept, has been denied the
>opportunity to place advertising or to appear in the editorial content of
>Mountain Bike Action (MBA) magazine.
Perhaps they were just offended by your Internet spamming Chu?
Roger Marquis
Andrew Chu
Breakaway Communications
96 S. Market St.
Suite 820
San Jose, CA 95113
MOUNTAIN BIKE ACTION PLACES MORATORIUM ON
VOODOO CYCLES ADVERTISING AND EDITORIAL
San Jose, CA
December 7,1995
In a rare move in the bicycle industry, VooDoo Cycles, pioneer of the
"value-priced customization" marketing concept, has been denied the
opportunity to place advertising or to appear in the editorial content of
Mountain Bike Action (MBA) magazine.
According to Daisy/Hi-Torque Publishing Company executive, Roland Hinz,
the VooDoo name apparently does not fit with the magazine's strict
religious values and will be summarily censored from product reviews as
well as paid space. Robb Mesecher, MBA's advertising manager, stated that
attempts to clarify the name and its positive Christian ties with
Mr. Hinz were unsuccessful.
"Obviously, a publisher has the right of refusal. But this amount of
discretion is unusual. The name does have little edge, but it it isn't
satanic. It's appropriate for a bicycle company focused on capturing the
spirit of adventure and the soul of good designs. Unfortunately, most of
what the average person knows about VooDoo comes only from misleading
use of it in horror movies and cheap paperbacks that emphasize zombies,
witch doctors and animal sacrifices." explains VooDoo marketing consultant
Dan Post.
"Actually, the clearest explanation is that voo means introspection and
doo means into the unknown. Translations from African and Haitian also
include the words mystery and spirit. VooDoo's roots are in nature and
natural forces. The lore and legend of VooDoo have long been a way for
people - especially slaves - to fight oppression and celebrate life.
It's about allowing oneself to take a rare journey and return unharmed.
In fact, it's my understanding tha VooDoo is a derivative of
Catholicism," says Post.
VooDoo intends to redistribute its MBA ad dollars among its other
regular campaigns appearing in Mountain Bike, Bike, MTB, Multisport,
Snowboard, Warp, and Velo News. The company is also launching a dealer
newletter called VooDoo Writes.
"We valued our presence in Mountain Bike Action, particularly for its
influential product reviews and European Distribution, but there are
certainly other media vehicles for realizing those same benefits," says
VooDoo general manager Gary Waterfield. "Our whole focus is on making
it easier for a knowledgeable off road enthusiast to own a bicycle
tailored specifically to individual needs - and to provide a superior
level of support to independent bicycle dealers. We're building an
interactive way to buy that allows freedom of choice, guaranteed
compatibility and significant savings."
VooDoo's unique sales approach enable a retail customer to choose
frame material, material composition, suspension fork, control components
and drivetrain that suit personal style, size and budget. VooDoo's
growing international dealer network now exceeds 300 locations.
Production facilities are located both domestically and overseas.
The California company recently moved from San Jose to Palo Alto.
New headquarters are:
VooDoo Cycles
Creamery Towers
900 High Street
Palo Alto, CA 94301
TEL: 800-495-7046 FAX:415-321-5955
-----End Press Release
Any comments may either be posted publicly on VooDoo's Conference Center
at http://www.VooDoo-Cycles.com, e-mailed to sup...@voodoo-cycles.com,
or by voice at 1-800-495-7046.
Tom Beam
writes:
>
>Perhaps they were just offended by your Internet spamming Chu?
Perhaps he's just offended at people who feel they have a right to
censor simply because they believe a word is anathema! Do the people
who manufacture VooDoo cycles believe in the essence of voodoo, the
belief system? Could be, but so what? It is not the place of MBA to
make value judgements as such because someone is using a "bad" word for
the name of their company. I might be able to understand it if the
name of the manufacturer was "Fuck the Skull of Jesus mountain bikes",
however.
--
METALBAG
This .sig brought to you courtesy of METALBAG's work computer.
Now you know how much I'm fucking off while making money.
Garbage truck driver of the informationsuperhighway.
"Never trust someone who can bleed for five days and not die".
onee...@hooked.net
Roger Marquis
>I can understand if they found out that Voodoo had unethical or illegal
>hiring, manufacturing or marketing practices, but something as innocuous
>as their name? How do you feel about Hispanics named Jesus? Does it
>offend you?
It's not just the name, voodoo has aquired a very negative reputation
thanks largely to their "spokesperson" Andrew Chu. From postings to
multiple inappropriate newsgroups, to the strictly negative quality of
every "Chu" post, mailbox spamming, posting private email... voodoo
clearly deserves their bad reputation.
Roger Marquis
TiDie
It seems that there is a beer made in Louisiana named "Voodoo
Lager". It features a label that has a picture of a swamp at night,
with a few glowing eyes of swamp critters in the shadows.
Well, a couple of state legislators saw this label and swore that
hey saw demons or devils or something. The fact that the name also
condoned satanic practice was unacceptable. Because of the
anti-Christian undertones of this horrible beer, its sale in Texas
was banned.
Now, the people in Louisiana got a little ticked off and banned the
sale of our own mediocre beer, "Lone Star"....maybe because the star
looked satanic....don't ask me. Anyway it took about 6 months for
everyone to come to grips with reality and kiss and make up.
My point is that the same people at MBA that banned VooDoo bikes
from advertising are the same people who won't let their kids dress
up as a clown on Halloween because it promoted satan-worshipping or
something.
Can't we all just get along....
Greg Williamson
Maybe you have a personal problem with Mr. Chu, but his posting of this
was entirely appropriate to this group, it was not "strictly negative" --
being both temperate and informative -- and there's no sign of
spamming or other transgressions.
Your posting, on the other hand, was negative, even abusive, unjustified,
and clearly exagerated ("the strictly negative quality of every 'Chu'
post" following on a post that isn't).
The issue of censorship by religious bigots is important. Your whining
is not. Perhaps you shouldn't be so impressed with yourself.
>
>Roger Marquis
Greg Williamson
---
TRW doesn't speak for me, and I don't speak for them.
Mark Hickey
> Can't we all just get along....
Indeed.
One minor biking magazine bans one product line for reasons which
may or may not have anything to do with Christian or moral values
(we've only heard from Voodoo).
Now we have day after day of Christian bashing.
Imagine for a minute that MBA's owner was named Stein, and that
he banned advertizement for the Arian Bike Company, whose head
tube decal was a swaztika.
Or if the editor was African-American and banned ads from the
KKK Bike Company, whose headtube badge was a burning cross.
Or.... well you get the idea.
Would we have day after day of Jewish value bashing? Or African-
American bashing? I don't think so.
Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
C.Berry
but I think I have a hold on it: Mountain Bike Action has banned Voo Doo
bike ads because of some alleged satanic content. I haven't seen the ads,
but I have two points anyway (this means, in typical american fashion, I
don't know what I'm talking about, but I'll yap nonetheless).
First, the linking between "voodoo" and satanism is a product of
american and white distorion. Voodoo, or more properly, Voudoun, comes
from Haiti. There is no satanism involved. It is a syncretic mix of west
African native religions - many of the names are the same - and Roman
Catholicism. The african part is animism, the belief that there is power
in everything: trees, ocean, rocks, etc. Greeks, Romans, Native
Americans, and just about every other group has similar belief - even
Christianity. Nothing Satanic. Read H. Courlander, _The Drum and the
Hoe_, University of California Press, Berkely. The book even contains lyrics
and music for dozens of Haitian songs.
Second, what does it matter what the ads say or suggest? As long
as violence is not promoted, who cares? If the tables were turned, and
the christians were in a position of weakness, you could be sure they
would be vocal about their ideas being marginalised, as if they aren't
vocal now. If I said I found those chrome fish on trunk lids offensive,
and required that they be removed, I would get in big trouble. However,
if I put up a Yin Yang, or a mandala, or a Buddha, or whatever on my car
now, I would get the dissapproving looks, or be denied access to
advertising in third rate magazines. This double standard for
stone-minded right wing christians (definitely little 'c')against
the rest of us is the big problem.
I say, be mellow, and ride your bike.
******************************************************
*Born Again Secular Humanist *
*Chris Berry *
*Camb...@ouray.cudenver.edu *
*WWW: http://ouray.cudenver.edu/~camberry/index.html *
******************************************************
Kinert
Bob
Olivia H. Lee
Mark Hickey <emh...@email.mot.com> wrote:
>TiDie <y...@orgtx64.med.uth.tmc.edu> wrote:
>> Can't we all just get along....
>
>Indeed.
>One minor biking magazine bans one product line for reasons which
>may or may not have anything to do with Christian or moral values
>(we've only heard from Voodoo).
>
>Now we have day after day of Christian bashing.
>
>Imagine for a minute that MBA's owner was named Stein, and that
>he banned advertizement for the Arian Bike Company, whose head
>tube decal was a swaztika.
>
>Or if the editor was African-American and banned ads from the
>KKK Bike Company, whose headtube badge was a burning cross.
there is a big difference between hate-groups, ie Aryan Nation or the KKK,
and a reilgion that is pretty misunderstood. People who are saying this and
that about VooDoo and killing chickens are speaking from the kind of
ignorance that bespeaks ill of anyone, be they a Christian or mountain
biking magazine. My personal problem with MBA's actions is that they are using
Christianity to cover up their own bigotry/misunderstandings. As a Catholic,
I am just frustrated by the Christians all over the place proclaiming their
self-righteous, separtist attitudes. I grew up believing that Christians
try to be accepting of everyone, not putting down other religions for the
sake of preserving some kind of weird Christian separtist movement.
Now that I have said that on behalf of non-Pat Buchanan Christian right wingers
I can say that I really hope this thread dies soon. I just felt I had to say
this. Thanks for reading, and hopefully "listening".
Noah Iliinsky
Mark Hickey <emh...@email.mot.com> wrote:
>One minor biking magazine bans one product line for reasons which
>may or may not have anything to do with Christian or moral values
>Imagine for a minute that MBA's owner was named Stein, and that
>he banned advertizement for the Arian Bike Company, whose head
>tube decal was a swaztika.
>Or if the editor was African-American and banned ads from the
>KKK Bike Company, whose headtube badge was a burning cross.
Your argument was made earlier in this thread and was wrong then too. The
difference is that the aryan nation and/or the kkk not only wouldn't
advertise in publications owned by jews or blacks, those philosophies do
not even tolerate the existance of jews or blacks (or gays or hispanics
or asians, or other types of christians or...)
As it was pointed out earlier in this thread, voodoo is not
anti-christian, and many who practise voodoo are also catholic. See the
difference here? In fact someone even said it "may or may not have
anything to do with Christian or moral values."
Cheers, Noah
--
nili...@reed.edu <- This address is always good. I use PGP.
Tom Beam
"C.Berry" <camb...@ouray.cudenver.edu> writes:
>
>american and white distorion. Voodoo, or more properly, Voudoun, comes
Oh goody. Now we can bring race into the picture and have a really
bitchin flamefest.
Why do some assholes feel this great need to charge as much shit as
possible to the issue of race? Grow up!
Marshall Pahl
(Mark Hickey) wrote:
> Now we have day after day of Christian bashing.
>
> Imagine for a minute that MBA's owner was named Stein, and that
> he banned advertizement for the Arian Bike Company, whose head
> tube decal was a swaztika.
>
> Or if the editor was African-American and banned ads from the
> KKK Bike Company, whose headtube badge was a burning cross.
>
Well...there's one hell of a diferance between voodoo and nazis...the
voodoo religion was not a bad thing at all...mostly warship of nature
(despite what you may see from watching indiana jones), voodoo's "magic"
was not bad AT ALL in their eyes, you could use magic to hurt someone but
you would also get the same thing...it was used to do good to
others...nazi's however were the MOST intolerant hateful people the world
has ever seen take power....and in my eyes...theres no difference between
the kkk and the nazis...
--
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Ulf Becker
>may or may not have anything to do with Christian or moral values
>
>
>Imagine for a minute that MBA's owner was named Stein, and that
>he banned advertizement for the Arian Bike Company, whose head
>tube decal was a swaztika.
>
>Or if the editor was African-American and banned ads from the
>KKK Bike Company, whose headtube badge was a burning cross.
>
>
>American bashing? I don't think so.
>
>Mark Hickey
>Habanero Cycles
My interpretation of the posts is that they are bashing MBAs lame attempt to invoke "Christian
values" as an excuse for banning VooDoo. Furthermore, your poat implys that advertising which
includes blatantly hateful messages is similar to advertising from a company Called "VooDoo".
This is equally lame.
--
Ulf Becker
ube...@idir.net
__O
='\<,
(*)/(*)
Mark Hickey
> In article <emh008-1912...@199.3.160.82>, emh...@email.mot.com
> (Mark Hickey) wrote:
>
>
> > Now we have day after day of Christian bashing.
> >
> > Imagine for a minute that MBA's owner was named Stein, and that
> > he banned advertizement for the Arian Bike Company, whose head
> > tube decal was a swaztika.
> >
> > Or if the editor was African-American and banned ads from the
> > KKK Bike Company, whose headtube badge was a burning cross.
> >
> Well...there's one hell of a diferance between voodoo and nazis...the
> voodoo religion was not a bad thing at all...mostly warship of nature
> (despite what you may see from watching indiana jones), voodoo's "magic"
> was not bad AT ALL in their eyes, you could use magic to hurt someone but
> you would also get the same thing...it was used to do good to
> others...nazi's however were the MOST intolerant hateful people the world
> has ever seen take power....and in my eyes...theres no difference between
> the kkk and the nazis...
Of course. I didn't mean to infer "equal" status to any of the groups,
but to illustrate a situation where the "rejecting editor" is anything
but a Christian, to try and illustrate that the ones screaming the
loudest about the unjust perceptions of one religion (voodoo) were
the first to cast generalizations and slurs at another (Christianity).
Makes no sense to me.....
Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
Mark Hickey
> Mark Hickey <emh...@email.mot.com> wrote:
> >TiDie <y...@orgtx64.med.uth.tmc.edu> wrote:
> >> Can't we all just get along....
> >
> >Indeed.
> >One minor biking magazine bans one product line for reasons which
> >may or may not have anything to do with Christian or moral values
> >(we've only heard from Voodoo).
> >
> >Now we have day after day of Christian bashing.
> >
> >Imagine for a minute that MBA's owner was named Stein, and that
> >he banned advertizement for the Arian Bike Company, whose head
> >tube decal was a swaztika.
> >
> >Or if the editor was African-American and banned ads from the
> >KKK Bike Company, whose headtube badge was a burning cross.
>
> there is a big difference between hate-groups, ie Aryan Nation or the KKK,
> and a reilgion that is pretty misunderstood. People who are saying this and
> that about VooDoo and killing chickens are speaking from the kind of
> ignorance that bespeaks ill of anyone, be they a Christian or mountain
> biking magazine.
Probably. I personally know nuthin' about voodoo. Keep in mind *any*
religeon can be a lot of different things to a lot of different people.
Same with *any* political or social movement.
> My personal problem with MBA's actions is that they are using
> Christianity to cover up their own bigotry/misunderstandings. As a Catholic,
> I am just frustrated by the Christians all over the place proclaiming their
> self-righteous, separtist attitudes. I grew up believing that Christians
> try to be accepting of everyone, not putting down other religions for the
> sake of preserving some kind of weird Christian separtist movement.
> Now that I have said that on behalf of non-Pat Buchanan Christian right
wingers
> I can say that I really hope this thread dies soon. I just felt I had to say
> this. Thanks for reading, and hopefully "listening".
Fine, but what does that have to do with MBA or voodoo? And
I should say that the vast majority of Christians I know *are* accepting
of everyone, and aren't part of any "separtist" movement that I'm aware
of.... If I know one <Jew><Catholic><Muslim><Atheist> who is a bigot,
should I post at length about how <Jews><Catholics><Muslims><Atheists>
are pond scum? I don't think so..... Let's not use generalizations
and misconceptions about *any* one religeon (which is after all what
the majority of posts are accusing MBA of doing!)
Wanna talk bikes?
Mark (off my soapbox now) Hickey
Habanero Cycles
Scott Steves
1. "Christian bashing?" I've read a lot of bashing of intolerance,
close-mindedness and hypocritical posing and posturing masquerading as
Christianity. I haven't read any bashing of Christians who weren't first
separated from Christianity as a whole as bein "close-minded christians, with a
little 'c'," or that didn't question the christianity of the MBA editorial
decision outright.
2.The KKK, Nazi's and other fascists are openly and violently opposed to
whatever position is not their own (e.g., Judaism).
On the other hand, the VooDoo bike company thinks it's a cool name, and a great
ad. campaign, which it is. Do you recognize the difference of orientation and
scale?
You did some pretty brainless whining, and got lots of reasonable, balanced and
I think overly considerate responses. Must be your lucky day it was such a
love-fest out there. Now say "thank you" and go try that lame sh*t on
alt.tasteless.
------------
Scott Steves Evil dances
Sole Technical Writer, to a Bossa-
TCSI - San Jose, Ca Nova beat!!!
sco...@tcs.com - The Tick
John Bowling
internet, and many (not all) feel that everyone must do as they demand, I
feel all of the feedback against them is normally justified.
The group of christian right wing fundamentalists (and I don't mean a group
as in all part of one denomination, but a few here and a few there) who do
this are just as bad as the kkk, the nazis, etc. They do engage in
actions which are just as hatefull as these groups.
Because of that, they give a bad name to all Christians, and they keep
many people from agreeing with any of the concepts of Christianity,
including me.
The freedom of religion in the USA must also, by default, include
freedom FROM religion.
--
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
John Bowling |Apple II GS can whip the pants off its little
joh...@primenet.com |brother (Mac) any time!
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mark Hickey
> Three responses for Mark Hickey (good name!) not that he deserves them:
> 1. "Christian bashing?" I've read a lot of bashing of intolerance,
> close-mindedness and hypocritical posing and posturing masquerading as
> Christianity. I haven't read any bashing of Christians who weren't first
> separated from Christianity as a whole as bein "close-minded christians,
with a
> little 'c'," or that didn't question the christianity of the MBA editorial
> decision outright.
I certainly don't have any problems at bashing individuals, be they
Christians, Nazis, Republicans, or Democrats. The postings I was refering
to seemed to be generalizations to me... maybe that wasn't always the intent.
The main point I was trying to make with my "Arian Bike" and "KKK Bike"
examples is that the same wording used in conjunction with "Jewish" or "African
American" (or any other group) would be considered highly improper. Oughta be
the same for *every* group, IMHO.
> 2.The KKK, Nazi's and other fascists are openly and violently opposed to
> whatever position is not their own (e.g., Judaism).
> On the other hand, the VooDoo bike company thinks it's a cool name, and
a great
> ad. campaign, which it is. Do you recognize the difference of orientation and
> scale?
Sure. I wasn't talking about the "bike companies" doing anything other
than using
names and symbols objectionable to some other group. I didn't even say the ads
said anything objectionable. I could have used a little more subtle examples,
I suppose, but the basic premise I was illustrating is just as valid.
> You did some pretty brainless whining, and got lots of reasonable,
balanced and
> I think overly considerate responses. Must be your lucky day it was such a
> love-fest out there. Now say "thank you" and go try that lame sh*t on
> alt.tasteless.
Sorry if the discussion was a bit too civil. I guess the readers in this group
have used up all their nastiness and abruptness during the great never-ending
helmet war. What a shame. Or maybe this is how it's supposed to work... a
couple alternative viewpoints being voiced without backstabbing or belittlement.
What a concept! Happy Holidays!
Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
Shari Bernhard
>mp...@neca.com (Marshall Pahl) wrote:
>> others...nazi's however were the MOST intolerant hateful people the world
>> has ever seen take power....and in my eyes...theres no difference between
>> the kkk and the nazis...
>Of course. I didn't mean to infer "equal" status to any of the groups,
>but to illustrate a situation where the "rejecting editor" is anything
>but a Christian, to try and illustrate that the ones screaming the
>loudest about the unjust perceptions of one religion (voodoo) were
>the first to cast generalizations and slurs at another (Christianity).
>Makes no sense to me.....
>Mark Hickey
>Habanero Cycles
I follow what you were trying to say, but using examples with the KKK and
Nazis is a bit extreme and subject to misunderstanding, I think. It would
be a better illustration to say that a Jewish editor refused to put an ad
that included the little fish symbol you see displayed by certain Christian
sects in his magazine. Even as a Jew, that would really bug me, and I'd
be just as disgusted with that editors attitude.
It's refreshing that you can take the same "side", such as it is, as Bill
Eberhard (? I think that was it) who knows someone who wouldn't buy a
Habanero because the name was "too hot" for her tastes! Her loss; I've
seen your Ti Habanero (in Mt. Dora during the Emeralda Metric; Jeff and I
took your number, but you probably don't remember...), and it is one *fine*
looking bike. I'd have said it was cool, but then again, someone else might
think it looks hot! (You say po-tay-to, and I say po-tah-to...)
(BTW, hitting 'r' to reply to your posts via email doesn't work.)
/========================================================================\
|| Shari Bernhard *** Built for comfort, not for speed *** ~O~ ||
|| sh...@modcomp.com <_> ||
|| <|> ||
|| | ||
\========================================================================/
Andrew Chu
However, this mean spirited, vidictiveness tone in his postings has
set a new level of outrageousness. Almost every other reply that I have
received on this issue has been positive and constructive. The views
of the people on the net are very important to VooDoo, who use this
information to judge their actions.
I don't know why this person continues to harass me, but it almost feels
like I'm being stalked. I sure wish he would stop being so crummy. If you
feel that my statements have been inappropriate, then let me know.
regards,
Andrew Chu
an...@netspin.com
In article <4avffm$c...@alba.roble.com>,
mar...@roble.com (Roger Marquis) wrote:
>
>It's not just the name, voodoo has aquired a very negative reputation
>thanks largely to their "spokesperson" Andrew Chu. From postings to
>multiple inappropriate newsgroups, to the strictly negative quality of
>every "Chu" post, mailbox spamming, posting private email... voodoo
>clearly deserves their bad reputation.
>
>Roger Marquis
Nelson David Ho
>One minor biking magazine bans one product line for reasons which
>may or may not have anything to do with Christian or moral values
>(we've only heard from Voodoo).
>Now we have day after day of Christian bashing.
>Imagine for a minute that MBA's owner was named Stein, and that
>he banned advertizement for the Arian Bike Company, whose head
>tube decal was a swaztika.
>Or if the editor was African-American and banned ads from the
>KKK Bike Company, whose headtube badge was a burning cross.
>Or.... well you get the idea.
>Would we have day after day of Jewish value bashing? Or African-
>American bashing? I don't think so.
>Mark Hickey
>Habanero Cycles
Why do you seem to stand on the defensive side of these racist
groups???
I understand the logic. However, the burning cross and the swaztika
signify racism, and hatred. Unlike voodoo, they are not misunderstood
symbols with misunderstood causes. They are clear on what they stand
for and what they believe in...hatred without a cause. With 5.5
billion people inhabiting, reproducing, and destroying this planet at
an exponential rate, there is just no room for hatred. Not anymore.
This ban only serve to increase tension and strife among people of
different religions and cultures. Have we not seen enough battles and
deaths because of religious differences throughout history? Of
course, this isn't going to start a 'war', but it's the principle that
matters.
Peace.
Nelson
@@*
~@ @*\*@
\__ /\_ *\\|*/*
\ \ *@*\@*@*@@
~\,______(*)/(*)______/~\, \||/
~\__ ||
Mongoose/Manitou/Ritchey ~~\._____________________[]___________
Mark Hickey
> emh...@email.mot.com (Mark Hickey) writes:
> I follow what you were trying to say, but using examples with the KKK and
> Nazis is a bit extreme and subject to misunderstanding, I think. It would
> be a better illustration to say that a Jewish editor refused to put an ad
> that included the little fish symbol you see displayed by certain Christian
> sects in his magazine. Even as a Jew, that would really bug me, and I'd
> be just as disgusted with that editors attitude.
The best example would probably lie between the two.... I just couldn't
think of any more appropriate that would be understandable to the majority
of readers of the r.b. groups.
> It's refreshing that you can take the same "side", such as it is, as Bill
> Eberhard (? I think that was it) who knows someone who wouldn't buy a
> Habanero because the name was "too hot" for her tastes! Her loss; I've
> seen your Ti Habanero (in Mt. Dora during the Emeralda Metric; Jeff and I
> took your number, but you probably don't remember...), and it is one *fine*
> looking bike. I'd have said it was cool, but then again, someone else might
> think it looks hot! (You say po-tay-to, and I say po-tah-to...)
You spell tomato, I spell tomatoe.....
> (BTW, hitting 'r' to reply to your posts via email doesn't work.)
Ooops. I just realized that when I installed a new version of the
mail reader, it reverted to an old setup file with a bad address. I
shudder to think of all the unreceived mail..... yeesh. Thanks for
the warning!
BTW, I'm pretty sure I do remember you from one of the early rest
stops.... the one where the guy with the Hooker pulled up? (That
doesn't sound right, does it?)
Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
Mark Hickey
> emh...@email.mot.com (Mark Hickey) wrote:
> >Imagine for a minute that MBA's owner was named Stein, and that
> >he banned advertizement for the Arian Bike Company, whose head
> >tube decal was a swaztika.
>
> >Or if the editor was African-American and banned ads from the
> >KKK Bike Company, whose headtube badge was a burning cross.
>
> >Or.... well you get the idea.
>
> >Would we have day after day of Jewish value bashing? Or African-
> >American bashing? I don't think so.
>
> >Mark Hickey
> >Habanero Cycles
>
> Why do you seem to stand on the defensive side of these racist
> groups???
Wrong. Not even close. Uh uh. Nope. I don't. I detest racism or
any other form of discrimination (which is how I got sucked into this
thread in the first place). This includes racism or unfair generalizations
against all groups, including Christians. I don't think a group has to have
a minority status to deserve the same considerations given any other group.
I honestly can't see how you got this impression from what I wrote....
> I understand the logic. However, the burning cross and the swaztika
> signify racism, and hatred. Unlike voodoo, they are not misunderstood
> symbols with misunderstood causes. They are clear on what they stand
> for and what they believe in...hatred without a cause. With 5.5
> billion people inhabiting, reproducing, and destroying this planet at
> an exponential rate, there is just no room for hatred. Not anymore.
>
> This ban only serve to increase tension and strife among people of
> different religions and cultures. Have we not seen enough battles and
> deaths because of religious differences throughout history? Of
> course, this isn't going to start a 'war', but it's the principle that
> matters.
>
> Peace.
Nelson,
Actually, I pretty much agree with you. My examples were a bit extreme,
but I couldn't think of any others that would be obvious to a vast
majority of the readers of the r.b. groups.
I agree that the Nazis and the KKK are quite removed from voodoo in terms
of impact and hate-mongering (although my total lack of knowledge of
voodoo as a religion keeps me from making any real comparisons). I just
was using an example where a name or symbology would be objectionable to a
group other than whatever particular religion or value system Mr. Hinz (?)
subscribes to.
Because of my lack of knowledge (whether real or perceived) about voodoo,
it's hard for me to make a judgement about the MBA ban, and what may have
prompted MBA to make the decision they did. I just have to assume that
something about the voodoo religion is objectionable to them, based on
their value system. Whether it's valid or not may be questionable - but I
guess if the examples I stated would be considered "valid" reasons to
reject advertising, so should MBA's - otherwise it would become an endless
excercize in splitting hairs. To
put it another way, either any publisher should be able to reject material for
moral / ethical reasons, or they shouldn't. If my examples are cases of
valid rejections, I think we have to assume there could be others. The
alternative is that we all become "ethics police", which I can say *I'm* not
trained for....
Have some happy holidays of whatever flavor, everyone! :-)
Mark Hickey
Habanero Cycles
Charles Mingus
I don't know what the big deal is MBA has not been worth reading for quite
a while now!
-tim
My best advice to anyone who wants to raise a Tim Stritmater
happy, mentally healthy child is: Keep him or t...@zappa.j51.com
her as far away from a church as you can -Frank Zappa min...@j51.com
Kristan Roberge
>
> Shari Bernhard (sh...@modcomp.com) wrote:
> >I can understand if they found out that Voodoo had unethical or illegal
> >hiring, manufacturing or marketing practices, but something as innocuous
> >as their name? How do you feel about Hispanics named Jesus? Does it
> >offend you?
>
> thanks largely to their "spokesperson" Andrew Chu. From postings to
> multiple inappropriate newsgroups, to the strictly negative quality of
> every "Chu" post, mailbox spamming, posting private email... voodoo
> clearly deserves their bad reputation.
>
really too bad since Voodoo Cycles is owned by Joe Murray (former
Norba national champion and chief designed for various companies
including Kona (past) and Titec (current).
Kristan Roberge
>
> TiDie <y...@orgtx64.med.uth.tmc.edu> wrote:
>
> > Can't we all just get along....
>
> Indeed.
>
> may or may not have anything to do with Christian or moral values
> (we've only heard from Voodoo).
>
Don't forget Mountain Biking magazine and the Maccaw Tire ads...
Which weren't shocking to me in the least... ANYONE remember the
infamous camelbak girls of the early 90's and the associated camelbak
ads with topless girls in cycling shorts and oakleys (seen from the back
or back and side - so that you COULD tell that they were very nicely
shaped girls) wearing camelbak's drinking system? I don't remember
there being such a politcally correct backlash then! Where did all
the PC, righteous, "my morals are better than your morals" people
come from and what are they doing in 'our' industry?!? Mountain biking
has always been about being politically INCORRECT.
Mikkel Andreasen
>Don't forget Mountain Biking magazine and the Maccaw Tire ads...
>
>Which weren't shocking to me in the least... ANYONE remember the
>infamous camelbak girls of the early 90's and the associated camelbak
>ads with topless girls in cycling shorts and oakleys (seen from the back
>or back and side - so that you COULD tell that they were very nicely
>shaped girls) wearing camelbak's drinking system? I don't remember
>there being such a politcally correct backlash then! Where did all
>the PC, righteous, "my morals are better than your morals" people
>come from and what are they doing in 'our' industry?!? Mountain biking
>has always been about being politically INCORRECT.
Or how about the Pro-Flex ad which featured Henrik Djernis naked (sitting
sideways). I mean who actually cares, and if you do care, turn the bloody
page over!!!
Chill Mike Andreasen
Petri Havanto
> Because of my lack of knowledge (whether real or perceived) about voodoo,
> it's hard for me to make a judgement about the MBA ban, and what may have
> prompted MBA to make the decision they did. I just have to assume that
Well, myu ignorance on voodoo as religion is most probably as great as
anybodys, but I think I have got an impression of the values of MBA...
> something about the voodoo religion is objectionable to them, based on
> their value system. Whether it's valid or not may be questionable - but I
> guess if the examples I stated would be considered "valid" reasons to
> reject advertising, so should MBA's - otherwise it would become an endless
> excercize in splitting hairs. To
> put it another way, either any publisher should be able to reject material for
> moral / ethical reasons, or they shouldn't. If my examples are cases of
> valid rejections, I think we have to assume there could be others. The
> alternative is that we all become "ethics police", which I can say *I'm* not
> trained for....
I'm not trained to be an ethics police either but I do still 'vote with my
money'. I have never particularly liked MBA but after a move like this
I must say I like it even less. Actually I don't like any biking rag,
I prefer riding instead. Oh, well... unough rambling...
Happy New Year, anyway...
Just ride it,
Petri
Douglas R. Brooks
not the bicycles see _Mama Lola: A Voodoo Priestess of Brooklyn_
by Karen McCarthy Brown (Oxford U. Press). Also,
Brown's articles in _The Encyclopedia of Religion_, ed.
by Mircea Eliade (MacMillian) or entries in the
new Harper's Dictionary of Religion, ed. by J.Z. Smith
and W.S.Green (Harper Collins). These works
should be available in better libraries.
They are among the most readable and accurate scholarly accounts
available, tracing Voodoo from its African roots into
Haiti and its subsequent development in
relationship to Roman Catholicism.
Best to know what one is banning, or
talking about, no? I wonder if these
MBA publishers have a clue.
Just being what I am, a University Religion Professor,
Douglas Brooks
Department of Religion and Classics,
University of Rochester
Rochester, NY
James M. Reed (AA)
VooDoo IS Titec (or part of it) and neither is owned by Joe Murray
James
SBW
KC
> Andrew Chu (an...@netspin.com) wrote:
> >In a rare move in the bicycle industry, VooDoo Cycles, pioneer of the
> >"value-priced customization" marketing concept, has been denied the
> >opportunity to place advertising or to appear in the editorial content of
> >Mountain Bike Action (MBA) magazine.
>
>
> Perhaps they were just offended by your Internet spamming Chu?
>
>
> Roger Marquis
a big duh.. a bit late I know, but does anyone see all the silly mis-metaphors flying around here, all the usual and typical fallacies of logic, or is it ill-logic? Come on people, what you're seeing is a inconsequential bike mag. taking an opportunity in the new era of "political correctness," albeit an application of wrongly surmised meaning of a term.
And yes, of course, BIG DEAL... so what!
What some people have latched onto in this thread is the marriage of the political right Conservatism to the fundamentalism of basic conservative Christian religious trends in America. Who cares!
The bicycle in question was originally proposed as the "Doo-doo" but they decided Voo-doo was more acceptable and sounded better. As for Mr. Chu, he is just seizing another opportunity, obviously angry that his name wasn't applied to the bike in question, ultimately calling it Choo-choo.
Give me a break! Please give it a rest! Stop the madness. Remember the Apollo moon missions, the Mercury maned space program, Gemini. No one gave a good f.... then (and rightfully so).
The mag's editors are idiots and so is Chu.
Bob Vaughan
>On Wednesday, December 13, 1995 12:00:00 AM UTC-8, Roger Marquis wrote:
>
>a big duh.. a bit late I know, but does anyone see all the silly
After 16 years, does anybody care?
Even slightly?
Didn't think so..
--
-- Welcome My Son, Welcome To The Machine --
Bob Vaughan | techie@{w6yx|tantivy}.stanford.edu | tec...@tantivy.net
AF6RR | P.O. Box 19792, Stanford, Ca 94309 | 1-650-469-3850
-- I am Me, I am only Me, And no one else is Me, What could be simpler? --