Portuguese citizenship

[Suzanne Carreiro]

I am wondering about the possibility of applying for
Portuguese citizenship - my grandparents were born in
the Azores, but my father never had citizenship - is
there any hope?
Suzanne

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[Maria Sousa]

I believe it goes for 3 generations.  I believe if you can prove that your grandparents were born in the Azores, you can apply for citizenship.  You might have to go through the steps of having your father apply for citizenship also.   Your local Portuguese Consulate Office should be able to answer that question.

 

Maria Sousa

Suzanne Carreiro <sznnca...@yahoo.com> wrote:

[M. Vincent Moniz]

Suzanne/Maria,

 

I think I called a consulate and was told that citizenship was limited to children of citizens of Portugal not grandchildren (I'm in the same boat; my grandfather was born in the Azores but father was never a citizen). Does anyone know if there is an exception b/c the Azores  is an autonomous region?

 

best,

Michael Vincent Moniz
 

[Lew White]

Like many, I’m sure, I have grandparents born in the Azores.  What are the benefits of citizenship?

 

---

<BR

[LIONEL J HOLMES]

Maria Sousa is correct. I obtained Portuguese citizenship through my father, and my son obtained it through me.  My father never obtained US citizenship.

 

Lionel Holmes

[nancy jean baptiste]

So are you saying that because my grandmother was born on Pico that I can apply for Portuguese citizenship? How does one go about the process and is it complicated? Are there advantages to the dual citizenship?
Thank you for the information,
Nancy Jean

---

Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 10:26:17 -0700
From: port...@sbcglobal.net

Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Portuguese citizenship

To: Azo...@googlegroups.com

Maria Sousa is correct. I obtained Portuguese citizenship through my father, and my son obtained it through me.  My father never obtained US citizenship.

 

Lionel Holmes

 

Lew White <le...@greatrocktractor.com> wrote:

Like many, I'm sure, I have grandparents born in the Azores.  What are the benefits of citizenship?

 

---

From: Azo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Azo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Maria Sousa
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 11:27 AM
To: Azo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Portuguese citizenship

 

I believe it goes for 3 generations.  I believe if you can prove that your grandparents were born in the Azores, you can apply for citizenship. 

-~----------~----~----~----~------~----~------~--~---

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[scarreiro]

Lionel,
someone else told me that i fmy fathe ris dead and he never applied
for citizenship himself then I am probably out of luck - your father
never got citizenship, but you WERE able to get it?? I would love to
hear more about how you did that.
Suzanne

On May 5, 1:26 pm, LIONEL J HOLMES <portu-...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
> Maria Sousa is correct. I obtained Portuguese citizenship through my father, and my son obtained it through me.  My father never obtained US citizenship.
>
>   Lionel Holmes
>

> Lew White <l...@greatrocktractor.com> wrote:
>
>         v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}        st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }                Like many, I'm sure, I have grandparents born in the Azores.  What are the benefits of citizenship?
>
> ---------------------------------

>
>   From: Azo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Azo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Maria Sousa
> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 11:27 AM
> To: Azo...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Portuguese citizenship
>
>     I believe it goes for 3 generations.  I believe if you can prove that your grandparents were born in the Azores, you can apply for citizenship.  You might have to go through the steps of having your father apply for citizenship also.   Your local Portuguese Consulate Office should be able to answer that question.
>
>     Maria Sousa
>

> Suzanne Carreiro <sznncarre...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> I am wondering about the possibility of applying for
> Portuguese citizenship - my grandparents were born in
> the Azores, but my father never had citizenship - is
> there any hope?
> Suzanne
>

> ___________________________________________________________________________­_________

[Guida Leicester]

So, to clarify, my grandfather, who technically should be my great grandfather, and came here in early 1890s, and who died in 1927, would allow me, a watered down version of a Portuguese descendant, to apply for Portuguese (Azorean) citizenship?
Guida

scarreiro <sznnca...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Lionel,
someone else told me that i fmy fathe ris dead and he never applied
for citizenship himself then I am probably out of luck - your father
never got citizenship, but you WERE able to get it?? I would love to
hear more about how you did that.
Suzanne

On May 5, 1:26 pm, LIONEL J HOLMES wrote:
> Maria Sousa is correct. I obtained Portuguese citizenship through my father, and my son obtained it through me.  My father never obtained US citizenship.
>
>   Lionel Holmes
>

> Lew White wrote:
>
>         v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}        st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }                Like many, I'm sure, I have grandparents born in the Azores.  What are the benefits of citizenship?
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>   From: Azo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Azo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Maria Sousa
> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 11:27 AM
> To: Azo...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Portuguese citizenship
>
>     I believe it goes for 3 generations.  I believe if you can prove that your grandparents were born in the Azores, you can apply for citizenship.  You might have to go through the steps of having your father apply for citizenship also.   Your local Portuguese Consulate Office should be able to answer that question.
>
>     Maria Sousa
>

> Suzanne Carreiro wrote:
>
> I am wondering about the possibility of applying for
> Portuguese citizenship - my grandparents were born in
> the Azores, but my father never had citizenship - is
> there any hope?
> Suzanne
>
> ___________________________________________________________________________­_________
> Be a better friend, newshound, and
> know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
>
>  

[frances gardner]

If I were able to prove my grandparents were born in the Azores WHAT ARE THE BENEFITS OF PORTUGUESE CITIZENSHIP?
Thanks for your time.
 
Frances Azevedo Gardner

---

Date: Mon, 5 May 2008 10:26:17 -0700
From: port...@sbcglobal.net

Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Portuguese citizenship

To: Azo...@googlegroups.com

</FONT

[Besotes]

I'm wondering, besides the BENEFITS, why would a person NOT want to obtain Portuguese citizenship?

 

Thanks for this topic!

Robin

[Cheri Mello]

Google: advantages dual citizenship

http://www.newcitizen.us/dual.html

http://www.richw.org/dualcit/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multiple_citizenship

--
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, R. das Tainhas, Achada

[Maria Sousa]

I don't know what the benefits are or why you would want to obtain portuguese citizenship.  However, I did because my parents are now retired and living in Portugal and someday I will inherit their property.  Being a portuguese citizen and having all my paperwork up to date will make the process easier (so I was told by my parents). 

 

If you are 3 generations out of Portugal, I can't see what the benefits are.  Can someone enlighten me?

 

Maria Sousa

[Eugenia Paine Rapasky]

In my opinion about estate planning that includes real estate outside of US, as in this case in Portugual.  Need to see an lawyer that handles estate planning for the best advice and planning.  This is a complex and may need to have the real estate in a trust.  Also estate tax may have to be paid for US and Portugal.  See a lawyer for the best advice.

 

Eugenia

Maria Sousa <lela...@verizon.net> wrote:

Eugenia Paine Rapasky

E-mail: Eugen...@Yahoo.com

[Linda Norton]

Suzanne,

It's Linda. What would be the advantage of having, I guess, dual
citizenship? My father was born here and then went back and lived there for
another 15 years, served in the military and needed to be called by a
sponsor here, plus have his afadavits to get back into the USA. My mother
and brother got their American citizenships when they came here.

A question, once they get the citizenships in the USA what happens to their
Portuguese citizenships? Is it considered dual or is that something separate
that you have to apply to?

Linda Borges (Furtado) Norton

[Maria Sousa]

I was told in Portugal that if you were born in Portugal, you will always be a portuguese citizen no matter what country you apply to for citizenship.

 

Maria Sousa

Linda Norton <linda...@comcast.net> wrote:

Suzanne,

It's Linda. What would be the advantage of having, I guess, dual
citizenship? My father was born here and then went back and lived there for
another 15 years, served in the military and needed to be called by a
sponsor here, plus have his afadavits to get back into the USA. My mother
and brother got their American citizenships when they came here.

A question, once they get the citizenships in the USA what happens to their
Portuguese citizenships? Is it considered dual or is that something separate
that you have to apply to?

Linda Borges (Furtado) Norton

-----Original Message-----
From: Azo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Azo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
scarreiro
Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 8:35 AM
To: Azores Genealogy
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Portuguese citizenship


Lionel,
someone else told me that i fmy fathe ris dead and he never applied
for citizenship himself then I am probably out of luck - your father
never got citizenship, but you WERE able to get it?? I would love to
hear more about how you did that.
Suzanne

On May 5, 1:26 pm, LIONEL J HOLMES wrote:
> Maria Sousa is correct. I obtained Portuguese citizenship through my
father, and my son obtained it through me.  My father never obtained US
citizenship.
>
>   Lionel Holmes
>

> Lew White wrote:
>
>         v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  o\:*
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}  w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  .shape
{behavior:url(#default#VML);}        st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }
               Like many, I'm sure, I have grandparents born in the Azores.
 What are the benefits of citizenship?
>
> ---------------------------------
>
>   From: Azo...@googlegroups.com [mailto:Azo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf
Of Maria Sousa
> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 11:27 AM
> To: Azo...@googlegroups.com
> Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Portuguese citizenship
>
>     I believe it goes for 3 generations.  I believe if you can prove that
your grandparents were born in the Azores, you can apply for citizenship.
 You might have to go through the steps of having your father apply for
citizenship also.   Your local Portuguese Consulate Office should be able to
answer that question.
>
>     Maria Sousa
>

[scarreiro]

Hi Linda,
This is what I have learned so far - it sounds like you can get
Portuguese citizenship if your grandparents were born in Portugal, but
only if your parent (in my case, my father) gets it first. I can't do
this because my father is dead, and never got citizenship. I may call
the consulate and just ask if there is any way around that part (like
applying for his citizenship after his death, etc... probably not
though).

The reasons I am interested in this are... I would like my children to
stay connected with their Portuguese heritage, and I think it is
valuable to have dual citizenship in this particular political
climate. I also am thinking I would love to retire to the Azores and
am assuming that having citizenship would make that easier.

Does anyone know anything about how one goes abou retiring to the
Azores??

How are you Linda?
Suzanne

On May 6, 3:46 pm, Maria Sousa <lelaso...@verizon.net> wrote:
> I was told in Portugal that if you were born in Portugal, you will always be a portuguese citizen no matter what country you apply to for citizenship.
>
>   Maria Sousa
>

> ___________________________________________________________________________­&shy;

> _________
> > Be a better friend, newshound, and
> > know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it

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>
> - Show quoted text -

[Linda Norton]

This is news to me. I think it would be a great idea to have one for all
kinds of benefits, never thought about it. My father, deceased mother and
brother have their citizenships in both Azores and USA except me.

Once you get your USA citizenship, you wouldn't lose the Azores/Portuguese
one, would you? Is that what they consider dual?

I have relatives that came here to work and went back I guess now they can
collect their pensions in both places? Or they went back to have a good
pension?

Linda

­

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> - Show quoted text - -

[scarreiro]

Linda, Portugal allows dual citizenship. I'm not sure what the US's
stand on it is... It sounds like it would be a breeze for you to get
your citizenship.
Suzanne

[David]

As an attorney experienced in international law, I may be able to help
on some of these questions...

Both Portugal and the U.S. permit dual citizenship. There is no such
separate thing as "Azorean citizenship"; one is a citizen of Portugal,
and if resident in the Azores can vote in the Autonomous Region.

Individuals who hold dual citizenship are subject to the laws (and the
taxes) of both countries. Thus, for example, unless she used one of
the U.S.-recognized exemptions, a dual U.S.-Portuguese citizen could
not travel to Cuba, even on her Portuguese passport, without violating
U.S. law, even though Portugal has no such restrictions.

Aside from benefits to dual citizenship already mentioned here, it
should be noted that Portugal is a member state of the EU and those
who hold Portuguese citizenship can work and reside anywhere in the
EU. Thus, re-obtaining the Portuguese citizenship that was given up
by one's ancestors can make sense if one (or one's descendants) want
to work in London, Paris, etc etc., not just in Portugal itself.

If the relationship to a Portuguese-citizen ancestor is recent enough
and direct enough (I'll link to the details below), one can opt to
acquire Portuguese citizenship as a matter of right.

If, as is the case for me, the relationship is more distant, one can
be naturalized, but the naturalization process is easier than for
those who have no link to Portugal.

Here's my situation:

Although my mother is a full-blooded Azorean from New Bedford, we are
among the older Luso-American families in the U.S., and have no very
recent immigrant ancestors. My first immigrant ancestor on the
Azorean side was a great-great-grandfather from Faial who as an 18
year old sailor served in the Great Stone Fleet during the Civil War;
he married a woman from Flores; their daughter married a man from
Pico; and *their* daughter, my grandmother, married a man, my
grandfather, whose parents had come over from S. Jorge during the
1890's. So my closest Portuguese citizen ancestors are 3 great-
grandparents, but the great-grandfather from Pico (who, btw, was the
first Portuguese-American cop in New Bedford, Frank M. Enos a.k.a.
Francisco Ignacio de Macedo) was naturalized early on and renounced
his Portuguese citizenship (as was necessary back in those days before
dual citizenship became accepted).

My great-grandparents from S. Jorge, however, retained their
Portuguese citizenship until during WW2, when they belatedly obtained
U.S. citizenship (relinquishing the Portuguese) after five decades in
the U.S., given the fear of non-citizens at the time. So I can still
document their Portuguese citizenship, plus have more indirect proof
of the other family lines also leading back to Portuguese citizenship
(all standard genealogical records back to ancestors I can prove were
born in the Azores).

On the basis of this descent, I will soon be applying to be
naturalized as a Portuguese citizen (while retaining my U.S.
citizenship). Again, I am not in one of the categories that can opt
to claim Portuguese citizenship as an automatic right, but by proving
my Portuguese descent, Portuguese law waives three important
requirements it otherwise imposes on those who seek naturalization:
(1) the residency requirement, which requires living on Portuguese
territory for 6 years (if one is a citizen of a Portuguese-speaking
country such as Brazil or Cape Verde) or 10 years (if one is a citizen
of a non-Portuguese-speaking country, such as the U.S. or Canada or
France); (2) being "sufficiently familiar" with the Portuguese
language; and (3) demonstrating the existence of an "effective link"
with the Portuguese national community.

Obviously, waiver of all three of these may not be necessary for all
would-be naturalizees -- many of us reside or have resided in
Portugal for 10 years, many of us are at least competent in
Portuguese, and many of us, whether in Portugal or in the diaspora,
can prove ongoing involvement in the life of the Portuguese national
community -- but we still need waiver of at least one of them if we
want to seek naturalization. Thus, while I do speak Portuguese, I
haven't ever lived there, and so am quite glad for that exemption.

For information on how to apply for such naturalization, or to claim
one's automatic option for citizenship if one qualifies for it,
contact your nearest Portuguese consulate.

Portugal's Nationality Law can be found here:
http://www.culture.gouv.fr/entreelibre/Laurette/country/portugal.htm

There is an English translation elsewhere on that same website, but I
have not provided the link because the translation is incorrect in
some places and therefore unreliable. A better translation may exist
elsewhere on the web, but I don't know where.

The Article that applies to me and folks like me is Article 6.

I hope this is of some use,
David da Silva Cornell
Miami, FL

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