Erro de idade em Registo de óbito

[Fábio Márquez]

Caros amigos! 

Observei que nos registos de óbito em alguns concelhos, o cura não citava certeiramente a idade da pessoa falecida, sempre usando a expressão " pouco mais ou pouco menos". Entretanto, no registo seguinte de Roza Soares:

https://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PV-MAEDEDEUS-O-1883-1886/SMG-PV-MAEDEDEUS-O-1883-1886_item1/index.html?page=74

Ele dá como certa a idade de 56 anos. Mas ela nasceu em 1824:

https://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PV-MAEDEDEUS-B-1818-1826/SMG-PV-MAEDEDEUS-B-1818-1826_item1/index.html?page=345

Alguém saberia me explicar o motivo pelos erros de idade neste tipo de registo?

Atenciosamente, Fábio Marques

[Fábio Márquez]

Observação: No registo de óbito desta senhora, o cura afirma que ela passou para outra dimensão deixando 5 filhos "sendo um menor e outro auzente". O que seria este filho ausente?

Atenciosamente, 

Fábio Marques

[Philippe GARNIER]

Ola Fabio,

No registo de batismo não vi uma Rosa.

O filho ausente é provavelmente um filho que viajou, fora da ilha, e não estava presente no dia do funeral.

Até o século 19 as idades são aproximadas. São muitas vezes a mais ou menos 5 anos, e terminam mais frequentemente com um 5 ou um zero (fenômeno bem conhecido em demografia).
No século XIX, e especialmente depois de 1850, as idades são muitas vezes exatas, os sacerdotes verificando o batismo da pessoa falecida.

Abs

Philippe GARNIER

Paris-France

https://philippegarnier112.wixsite.com/familiasilhaterceira/copie-de-familias-da-ilha-terceira

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[George Sousa]

Hi Fábio

In my experience age discrepancies like this are very common in parish death records and usually reflect the limits of the information available at the time rather than a specific mistake. With that said, our colleague Cheri has a theory that sometimes "too much vinho" is a factor;)

In most parishes, the age of the deceased was provided orally—often by relatives or others in the parish—and it was not always checked against baptismal registers. For that reason, priests often qualified ages with expressions such as pouco mais ou menos, and even when a specific age is written, I believe that it is best understood as an approximation.

From what I’ve seen across parish records from different centuries, these kinds of discrepancies appear consistently and are not tied to any particular period. I’m attaching a screenshot of a snippet of information from my database that compares the age stated in a death record with the age reconstructed from baptismal information.

Parish records are invaluable—and often the only sources we have—but they also contain many unintentional inaccuracies. My approach has been to record what each document says on a first pass, then refine things over time by revisiting the records and comparing them with related baptisms, marriages, and burials. Early assumptions often need adjustment as more context becomes available.

From my experience the more challenging source of confusion is name usage. The same person may appear under different combinations of given names in different records. For example, a woman baptized as Maria might later appear as Maria Jacinta Rosa in her marriage record, Maria Joaquina at the baptism of one child, Joaquina Rosa at another, Rosa Jacinta in her death record, and again as Joaquina Rosa when a grandchild is baptized. All of these can refer to the same individual, depending on context.

Situations like this—especially when combined with remarriages and repeated family names—are often difficult to untangle on a first reading and usually only become clear after multiple passes through the parish registers.

Overall, parish records tend to work best when treated as approximate, contextual documents and reviewed repeatedly rather than read as precise statements of fact.

George

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[Carlos Melo]

Hi George, 

Thank you very much for your information. I've come to expect occasional changes in the second name (Maria de Jesus then Maria da Rosa or Maria dos Anjos), but I was not aware that the first name could also change over time. I have been struggling with a couple of lines where I can only find the marriage in the parish stated in the birth record of the children precisely assuming a change or inaccuracy, for example, from Josefa Maria to Victoria Maria. I am more inclined to pursue that line now. 

I do have one question, though. What if I do find a matching pair, with the exact names of both groom and bride, in the same time period, but in another parish and in another council, not neighbouring parishes?  

I'd pursue the line from the same parish, despite the change in name, but I'd appreciate your input.

Thanks,

Carlos

[George Sousa]

Hi Carlos,

I would start by treating them as separate couples on the initial pass. You can build a kind of “pseudo” family tree for the couple in the other parish—collecting information on their children, parents, and any related records—until there’s enough evidence to confirm or rule out that they might be the same couple.

Paying attention to the names of the bride’s and groom’s parents, as well as baptismal records that mention grandparents or other contextual clues, can be really helpful. Over time, patterns often emerge that make it clearer whether the lines converge or represent different families.

This is definitely a tricky area, and I’m sure others here may have additional tips or approaches based on their experience. I’m learning as I go too!

George

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[Carlos Melo]

Thanks, George. You’ve been very helpful.

I should mention that the maternal line with matching names has been described by Rodrigo Rodrigues, as so was the paternal line. Yet, he did not join them. This was the deciding factor for me and which made me consider pursuing the line in the expected parish but with the name change. I will heed your advice and create a pseudo family tree for both possibilities, but in the 1700s, the baptism records did not indicate the grandparents names.

Thanks again!

Carlos

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[Fábio Márquez]

Muito agradecido ao Phelippe e ao George...obrigado pela presteza de vocês!!!

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[Philippe GARNIER]

Ola Fabio,

As minhas observações sobre a idade dada ao falecimento são apenas da minha experiência na Ilha Terceira. Nas outras ilhas pode ser diferente.

Abs

Philippe

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