Help reading passport entry (Raposo/Mosteiros) please

[IslandRoutes]

I am helping a cousin with her Raposo line.  I came across two entries in the passports that I believe are brothers (thought there is some confusion over how this family has linked these two together).

Anyway, this is the page I am looking at:
http://www.culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/PASSAPORTES-PDL-1875-1883/PASSAPORTES-PDL-1875-1883_item1/P103.html

The entries are #866 and #874.  In #874, the parents are listed as Pai Incognito and Ma. de Jacintha.  In #866, the parents seem to say "Outro" and Maria Albina.  What does Outro (or whatever it is) mean in this case?  I may not be reading it right but I thought it meant something like "other, another".  So maybe it has a different meaning here?  I checked Robert Demello's passport index book and he has the father as no name but "deceased".  Is that what the term is saying?

Thanks for the help!

[John Raposo]

I do not know that Manuel (son of another "outro" of the same name and Maria Albina, and Francisco, son of an unknown father and Maria Jacinta, are related.

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[Eliseu Pacheco da Silva]

It means that the father has the same name. (Outro of the same name) J

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[IslandRoutes]

Eliseu,
Thanks!  I was thinking that might be it.  I am not sure how Robert Demello got deceased from the entry.

John,
According to the family in Hawaii, they are brothers.  Manoel Raposo is my cousin's great great grandfather.  I can track both to the island of Kauai.  Francisco worked on the Kilauea Sugar Plantation the same as my Pacheco's.  I'm not entirely convinced of the connection or that these two entries are the right people (I know Francisco matches the person from Kilauea).  I'm trying to sort it out.   Are you working on either of these families?

Mel

[IslandRoutes]

An added note:
I decided to take a look at Mosteiros today.  I found Francisco Raposo and Maria Emilia's marriage record.  It does confirm that Francisco was a Pai Incognito.  He was also a widow.
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-MOSTEIROS-C-1880-1889/SMG-PD-MOSTEIROS-C-1880-1889_item1/P5.html

I learned from my cousin that the connection is from oral history.  I am not convinced that Manoel Raposo m. Maria Albina is Francisco's brother.  Cousin, maybe.    I think the family may be taking the family story and looking at the records and saying "Manoel had a brother.  The brother worked on the same plantation, therefore, this Raposo must be his brother."  I will see if they have more information that can establish some sort of connection.  But even with the marriage record the mother is given as Maria Jacinta.  Manoel Raposo's mother is supposed to be Maria Albina (his wife is named the same).

Let's see if the family comes up with anything... Thanks!

[Dano]

Hi Mel, 

I wouldn't sell family tradition totally down the river. Even where there may be nothing more than "bragging rights," there is usually a certain amount of truth tied to that tradition. While it is possible that family members have changed or exaggerated the relationship of two persons to be other than it was, it may have also been merely a misinterpretation of a statement in a family story that wasn't fully understood. 

I've come across a term in early historical documents that could account for this misinterpretation. The term is "primos com irmaos" which was intended to stress a very close relationship between two children - perhaps first cousins who were the sons or daughters of two brothers or sisters, or half brothers or half sisters. Sometimes, we need to read between the lines to figure out what the author was trying to describe.  

[IslandRoutes]

Hi Dan,
I try to keep in mind that there is usually some truth to family stories.  It's sorting it all out that is the problem. I have not seen that term in records, but I'm looking for something similar.  Maybe one of them as godfather that states they are related.  I will keep a closer look for these notes.  I have a feeling now that they are related, possibly brothers. It's getting that document or even an oral history that is more than "my mother said we are related".  Right now I am querying people on the Facebook Portuguese Hawaiian Genealogy Group to see if someone is related to the offspring who might have the answer we seek.

Hawaii always complicates these matters.  People from Hawaii tend to call every one Cuz.  So, knowing whether you have a true relationship or have someone who is a close family friends who was seen as family can be difficult.

[JR]

Yes, it says Francisco Raposo was widow of Maria da Conceicao who was buried in Varzea. Unless Mosteiros has an area called Varzea, it must be in Brazil.

JR

[Altino Demelo]

The Varzea is an area in São Miguel John. It is located somewhere between Ginetes and Mosteiros.

Sent from my iPad

[Dano]

Calling people "Cuz?" Mel, I had that "nick" foisted on me as soon as I arrived in Ponta Garca - for the obvious reasons. My problem was trying to figure out which "primo Manoel" people were referring to whenever there was a family discussion. :)

[IslandRoutes]

JR/Altino,
Varzea?  Okay, I'll make note of that.  This family has attached itself to about 5 different locations...they are giving me a headache keeping it all straight.

Dano,
LOL...Cuz can mean a lot of things, and sometimes not a family relationship.  I'll give you my story.  I was going through old photos with my Grandmother.  This is when I was only a year or so into my tree and not aware of certain facts.  She got to a photo of an elderly couple and started saying "Oh Granny and Grandpa!  How I miss you!"  Things like that.  I'm sitting perched on the edge of my chair eagerly awaiting their names.  After a minute or two, she finally tells me "Well, they weren't our real grandparents.  We just called them that."  Sigh...  LOL