Help reading this Altares marriage record of Bartolomeu Goncalves and Maria Nunes from 1670

[doreen...@gmail.com]

I need help reading this marriage record. If I follow the normal pattern it seems like the priest was not writing in a straight line. I thin it says the grooms parents are Joao Goncalves and Maria Marques. The bride’s parents would be Manuel Martins Berbereia and Maria Nunes. The problem is I can not find the groom’s parents’ marriage. So this is making me question whether I have handled the mismatched lines correctly. I’m think that my limitations in the Portuguese language may have made me make a mistake. It is no the bottom of the right side of the page. Thank you again, Doreen Caetano

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1648-1712/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1648-1712_item1/P27.html

 

 

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[Margaret Vicente]

Like Cheri says, ‘too much vino’ 😉

Groom’s parents: Joao Goncalves, deceased and of his wife Maria Manuel

with Maria Nunes, daughter of Manuel Martins Berberea and of his wife Maria Nunes.

 

Margaret

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[Bill Seidler]

Hello Doreen,

I realize that the index says the groom is Bartolomeu Gonçalves, but it sure looks like Gil to me instead of Glz.  I've also never seen Bartolomeu abbreviated like that but I don't know what else it could be.  I think this is the baptism of their first child and the name still seems to be Gil and has what might be a different abbreviation for Bartolomeu (I'm accustomed to "B.meu".) Maria, top right.

Bill Seidler

On Tuesday, July 30, 2019 at 5:51:03 PM UTC-7, Mara wrote:

Like Cheri says, ‘too much vino’ 😉

Groom’s parents: Joao Goncalves, deceased and of his wife Maria Manuel

with Maria Nunes, daughter of Manuel Martins Berberea and of his wife Maria Nunes.

 

Margaret

From: doreen...@gmail.com
Sent: July 30, 2019 2:21 PM
To: azo...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Help reading this Altares marriage record ofBartolomeu Goncalves and Maria Nunes from 1670

 

I need help reading this marriage record. If I follow the normal pattern it seems like the priest was not writing in a straight line. I thin it says the grooms parents are Joao Goncalves and Maria Marques. The bride’s parents would be Manuel Martins Berbereia and Maria Nunes. The problem is I can not find the groom’s parents’ marriage. So this is making me question whether I have handled the mismatched lines correctly. I’m think that my limitations in the Portuguese language may have made me make a mistake. It is no the bottom of the right side of the page. Thank you again, Doreen Caetano

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1648-1712/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1648-1712_item1/P27.html

 

 

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[Bill Seidler]

I believe this is the same person's obit right side bottom right.  It has Bartolomeu spelled out; last name Gil

Here is the marriage of the Maria in the above baptism: right side  This is the has Bartolomeu spelled out; last name Gil

left center  Manuel; it has father as Bermeu Gil

bottom left José;  It has Br.to Gil

2nd on left Gracia; named spelled out as Bertolomeu Gil

2nd on left Isabel; it has name as Bermeu Gil

3rd on right Antoniol; It has name as Br.to  Gil

[doreen...@gmail.com]

Wow. Thanks. I have spent the day reviewing these and putting them into my database. I Have some additional information for you as well but would like to start with my questions on what you sent me.

I’m having trouble reading Gracia and Manuel’s Godparents’ names. Can you look at those and get back to me with what you think they are?

I was wondering what the word “Cura” in front of the Joao’s godfather’s name (Cura Roque Martins)?

 

Now Bartolomeu Gil and Maria Nunes had two more children:

1. Antonio Martins was their son. He married Isabel do Rosario and they had 7 children. Both had been married before. Antonio Martins had married a woman named Maria Nunes 4/6/1711, http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1648-1712/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1648-1712_item1/P128.html. Isabel do Rosario was married to Tome Borges2/1716, http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1713-1763/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1713-1763_item1/P10.html . It appears to me that Isabel married Tome after Antonio died but still need to locate his death record to confirm this information. It appear that Isabel was Antonio second wife and Maria Nunes is the mother of his children but since I have not located the marriage record of Antonio and Isabel I can not say that for a fact either. f you want their information let me know.
1. Maria Borges born 5/3/1725 in Altares. I had the link but when I was copying it I deleted instead of copied so I will have to find it again but record indicates that he is the child of Isabel and Thome.
2. Joao Goncalves Borges born 10/31/1726 and died 11/16/1799. Married Luzia da Conceicao in 1754 in Altares, http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1713-1763/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1713-1763_item1/P146.html

I have 4 children for them: Antonio Goncalves Borges, Rosa Maria, Joao Goncalves Borges and Isabel de Jesus but records indicate that Joao is the son of Isabel husband Thome.????

3. Francisco Borges born 3/17/1730 in Altares and is also a son of Isabel and Thome.
4. Manuel Coelho Borges born 6/3/1734 in Altares. Married a lady names Isabel according to child’s information Manuel is also a child of Isabel and Thome.
5. Antonio Borges born 4/28/1740 in Altares, http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-ALTARES-B-1723-1745/TER-AH-ALTARES-B-1723-1745_item1/P150.html. Antonio is a child of Isabel and Thome.
6. Joao Martins Gil died before 1757 and was married in 1738 in Altares to Maria do Espirito Santo http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1713-1763/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1713-1763_item1/P80.html. I have two children for them: Francisca Ignacia and Andre Martins. Joao is the child of Antonio and Maria
7. Thome Martins Gil married Sebastiana Rosa do Sacramento in Altares 1744 http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1713-1763/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1713-1763_item1/P112.html.Antonio is the child of Antonio and Maria.  I have two children for Thome and Sebastiana: Antonio Martins Gil and Rosa Joaquina.

 

2. Maria Nunes, who married Manuel Martins on 6/29/1698, http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1648-1712/TER-AH-ALTARES-C-1648-1712_item1/P75.html

Hope this helps you as much as your information help me. Thanks Doreen

 

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[Bill Seidler]

I think Gracia's godparents are Alferes Sebastião Nunes, son of Simão Gonçalves, deceased; and Agueda de Luz, daughter of Capitão Francisco Lucas

For Manuel's godparents, I'm having a tough time.  Trying to follow the crooked lines it looks like Simão Gonçalves, deceased; and that doesn't make sense.  It is probably one of his sons just like it was for his sister Gracia.  The godmother looks like Maria Manuel, daughter of Manuel Nunes.

CURA is a title for a priest.

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[Bill Seidler]

Thank you Doreen but this isn't part of any research I am doing.  This was just the first inaccuracy I have ever found in the Terceira Marriage Index and I became briefly obsessed with researching it thoroughly to make sure I was right.  That being said, the marriage index is an invaluable tool that I use extensively.  I am grateful for those who created it.

As your sixth-eighth cousin at least 4 different ways through our common Ribeirinha ancestry, I am glad you could benefit from my malady.

Bill

[doreen...@gmail.com]

That’s so funny I do things like that too. Then hen helping cousin do their research I’m usually able to give it to someone. This was not part of my lineage but my Cousin’s Mel’s tree. He does not do research but his MtDNA test came back with a very rare line. In the research group there are only 200 world wide so they were so excited to see a new person but I had not completed the research on this line so …thus all the work I doing now so I can give them the tree that goes with the DNA profile. Thanks again, Doreen

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