Help with translation, please!

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Elaine Mello

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Jan 7, 2020, 9:10:57 PM1/7/20
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I just got a DNA link to a second cousin on Ancestry whose grandfather was a John De Mello Barboza born in 1900 who immigrated to New Bedford in 1901.  I found the naturalization form for this Joao, and in looking in the tembo.pt records, I think I've found a sibling to my grandfather who was previously unknown to me.   Which brings me to the request to confirm that I'm reading this right (lefthand side of the page, #29.)


Joao (changed to John de Mello on the naturalization papers) was born May 31, 1900 according to his declaration.  I can't make out whether the date in the baptismal record is correct or not, but the rest of the relatives match the ancestry line, so I do think that I have the right Joao.  If anyone can confirm the dates and information, I would greatly appreciate it.

I'm definitely out of practice in reading these, but at least the priest had good penmanship for a change! 

Thanks in advance!

Elaine

Cheri Mello

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Jan 7, 2020, 9:21:03 PM1/7/20
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Baptized 4 Jun 1900
Born 9 pm on the 30 of May.

I'll see if I have him in my program.
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


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Cheri Mello

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Jan 7, 2020, 9:27:30 PM1/7/20
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OK, I had him. I have the emigration out of the Azores too:

Middle of the page, passport # 534
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

Cheri Mello

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Jan 7, 2020, 9:33:45 PM1/7/20
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Elaine,

I have your grandfather as one of 8 (that I know about).
image.png

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

Elaine Mello

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Jan 7, 2020, 9:34:14 PM1/7/20
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thanks, Cheri -

I looked at the immigration papers from Ellis Island and he is listed as having no years -it looks like whomever was writing down the information got the lines out of sync because it says laborer off to the right and I thought it was a different person, but it does look like he came over with the family in 1901.  Interesting find!
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Cheri Mello

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Jan 7, 2020, 9:37:34 PM1/7/20
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They registered to leave 3 April 1902. Unless they went twice. The link I gave you is 1902.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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JR

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Jan 8, 2020, 7:29:13 AM1/8/20
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Here is what I have:

JR

 

Descendants of Antonio de Melo Barbosa

 

 

Generation No. 1

 

1.  ANTONIO DE MELO BARBOSA was born Abt. 1858 in Sao Paulo de Ribeira Quente.  He married CLAUDINA DE JESUS DA SILVA 16 Jul 1884 in Sao Paulo de Ribeira Quente, daughter of JOAO SILVA and MARIA.  She was born Abt. 1863 in Sao Paulo de Ribeira Quente.

       

Children of ANTONIO MELO BARBOSA and CLAUDINA SILVA are:

                  i.    MANUEL8, b. 25 Apr 1885, Sao Paulo de Ribeira Quente.

                  ii.    MARIA, b. 17 Nov 1886, Sao Paulo de Ribeira Quente.

2.              iii.    ANTONIO DE MELO, b. 26 Feb 1889, Sao Paulo de Ribeira Quente; d. 11 May 1958, New Bedford, MA.

                 iv.    JOSE, b. 09 Mar 1891, Sao Paulo de Ribeira Quente.

                 v.    ROSA, b. 30 Jun 1892, Sao Paulo de Ribeira Quente.

                 vi.    VIRGINIA, b. 23 Mar 1893, Sao Paulo de Ribeira Quente.

                vii.    MANUEL, b. 03 Dec 1894, Sao Paulo de Ribeira Quente.

               viii.    MARIA, b. 11 Dec 1897, Sao Paulo de Ribeira Quente.

                 ix.    JOAO DE MELO OR JOHN DE MELLO, b. 30 May 1900, Sao Paulo de Ribeira Quente.

                 x.    FRANCISCO, b. 10 Feb 1902, Sao Paulo de Ribeira Quente.

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Elaine Mello

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Jan 8, 2020, 7:32:13 PM1/8/20
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Thank you both - I find it strange that there are two Manuels and two Marias, unless the older ones died before the second one was born.  Virginia and Francisco are new ones to me as well.  Looking at the emigration documents, it was the older Maria who came over in 1902 and the second Manuel, looking at their ages on the Ellis Island documentation.  It may be that Francisco died on the trip over. - he definitely left with them according to that link  I guess I'll never know that story.    Perhaps the older Manuel stayed behind.  I'll have to do some more digging to see what I can find. 

I haven't been able to fine Antonio or Claudina's deaths in the U.S., so I wonder if they went back at some point.  Though given the way they all changed their names in the census, it might just be under Silva, which they used  as well.

This is great information!  Thank you so much!

Elaine

Elaine Mello

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Jan 8, 2020, 7:43:05 PM1/8/20
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Cheri Mello

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Jan 8, 2020, 10:17:47 PM1/8/20
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Hi Elaine,

I did find one record but JR posted it this morning and he had 2 more kids.

The first Manuel died before the 2nd was born.  Yes, a family can have 2 (or more) Marias all alive. Typically, the oldest went by Maria and the other(s) went by their middle (usually religious) name.

The children who did not come over on the 1902 emigration must have died before that emigration registration date.

You'll have to check for Antonio and Claudina under Silva, as you mentioned.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Wed, Jan 8, 2020 at 4:22 PM Elaine Mello <emell...@gmail.com> wrote:
Thank you both - I find it strange that there are two Manuels and two Marias, unless the older ones died before the second one was born.  Virginia and Francisco are new ones to me as well.  Looking at the emigration documents, it was the older Maria who came over in 1902 and the second Manoel, looking at their ages on the Ellis Island documentation.  It may be that Francisco died on the trip over.  I don't see an obituary for him in Ribeira Quente, but if they were waiting to get on a boat, it could have been anywhere if it had indeed happened. 

This is great information!

Elaine

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JR

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Jan 9, 2020, 12:25:18 AM1/9/20
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I've corrected that, thanks. Amusingly my my program said do you want to merge these individuals...what, what do you mean... shut up computer, I am the boss and never make mistakes;)

JR

Elaine Mello

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Jan 9, 2020, 9:25:17 PM1/9/20
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It's always the computer's fault!

Do you have any record of Claudina Silva's siblings?  I know they immigrated to stay with her brother Francisco, but I haven't found out much else other than that.  I may have to just scanning all of the birth records and see who else I can find, but it can get hard o the eyes.   Last night I was looking through the New Bedford directory of 1905 for S. Front St trying to find him and it looks like every Silva and De Mello lived on that street at the time.  So at the moment, it's a needle in a haystack.  But the help you've gen so far has been great.

Elaine


Cheri Mello

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Jan 9, 2020, 9:43:19 PM1/9/20
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Elaine M,

The 1905 (and a few years before and after) New Bedford City Directories has who married the year before and who owns cars. Maybe something else. It's in the back of the directory.

I'll check later and see if I have anything on Claudina Silva. I don't think so, as I think I'm related to her husband's line (which is how I connect to you way back).
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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Cheri Mello

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Jan 9, 2020, 10:06:49 PM1/9/20
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Hi Elaine,

I don't even have Claudina's date of birth. I have her dad b. 28 Jan 1832 (bapt 5 Feb) in RQ. I have her mom born as c. 1817. Maybe that approximation came from the marriage?

I have only 2 siblings for Claudina.
1) Maria (marries as Maria de Jesus Silva) b. 26 Dec 1855 RQ and bapt on the 30th. She married 7 Feb 1877 in RQ to Joao de Sousa. They had a Maria b. 25 May 1879 in RQ and baptized 2 June.
2) Pulqueira (spelled as Pulcheria), b. 5 May 1871 RQ and bapt. on the 9th.

That's all that I have on the siblings. I'm not related on this line. I think the work was Shirley Allegre's.
Hope this helps, Cheri
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

JR

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Jan 11, 2020, 2:05:22 PM1/11/20
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I have a couple more siblings for Claudina da Silva. Do you want me to send them? 

JR

Cheri Mello

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Jan 11, 2020, 2:26:23 PM1/11/20
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Thanks JR, but I'm not related to Claudina. Shirley might want them though.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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Elaine Mello

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Jan 11, 2020, 11:32:45 PM1/11/20
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hi Cheri,

   I saw that marriages and deaths were listed in the back of the directory, so I'll take a closer look.  Interesting on the siblings for Claudina - interesting that there isn't a Francisco - or he really wasn't a brother, and they just said that when they got to New York.  Definitely a mystery there.

    Thanks for the info.

Elaine

JR

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Jan 12, 2020, 2:18:48 PM1/12/20
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Oh but there is. The pattern of births for this couple is more unusual than most. Here is Francisco, who must have went on to marry because there is certificate for him in 1895. I will send the rest to your email address.

JR


Francisco, born- March 27 1859, bap- April 3- 1858, filho de Joao da Silva and Maria Roza, nats Ribeira Quente, Francisco Goncalo and Claudina Roza filhos familias de Jose Goncalo deste lugar.
certified, sept 3- 1895

JR

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Jan 12, 2020, 2:32:45 PM1/12/20
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Of course the baptism date for Francisco should be 1859.

JR

Elaine Mello

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Jan 13, 2020, 8:53:33 PM1/13/20
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I'm so glad you found him, JR - I'll have to see if I can find him in the passports now and track him to New Bedford that way.  The address Antonio and Claudina listed for Francisco in 1902 didn't seem to exist in the 1905 directory, so I'm going to have to see if I can figure out which Francisco (or Frank) Silva is the right one here in the States.

Elaine

Cheri Mello

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Jan 14, 2020, 1:45:39 PM1/14/20
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JR, Are you sure on that Virginia born on 23 Mar 1893 to Antonio de Mello Barboza and Claudina de Jesus? She's not born quite 9 months after the previous child (meaning Antonio and Claudina did the deed right after Rosa was born...After hours of labor and giving birth her husband wanted that?!?!?) I pulled this record. It's the right date, but it's not matching:

Can you look? I think you got a case of fancy fingers there :)
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 5:53 PM Elaine Mello <emell...@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm so glad you found him, JR - I'll have to see if I can find him in the passports now and track him to New Bedford that way.  The address Antonio and Claudina listed for Francisco in 1902 didn't seem to exist in the 1905 directory, so I'm going to have to see if I can figure out which Francisco (or Frank) Silva is the right one here in the States.

Elaine

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Elaine Mello

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Jan 14, 2020, 8:58:32 PM1/14/20
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Cheri,


Virginia is Maria Lima (Antonio's cousin and wife)'s sister:  Maria and Virginia are daughters of Joao Lima and Francesco Rose de Mello (herself, the daughter of Manoel de Mello Barboza and Maria Julia Linhares.   Antonio and Maira share the same great grandfather, Francisco de Mello Barboza and Anna Esperito.Santa.  (which has created some convolutions on Ancestry with me tree!)

Elaine

On Tuesday, January 14, 2020 at 1:45:39 PM UTC-5, Cheri Mello wrote:
JR, Are you sure on that Virginia born on 23 Mar 1893 to Antonio de Mello Barboza and Claudina de Jesus? She's not born quite 9 months after the previous child (meaning Antonio and Claudina did the deed right after Rosa was born...After hours of labor and giving birth her husband wanted that?!?!?) I pulled this record. It's the right date, but it's not matching:

Can you look? I think you got a case of fancy fingers there :)
Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada


On Mon, Jan 13, 2020 at 5:53 PM Elaine Mello <emell...@gmail.com> wrote:
I'm so glad you found him, JR - I'll have to see if I can find him in the passports now and track him to New Bedford that way.  The address Antonio and Claudina listed for Francisco in 1902 didn't seem to exist in the 1905 directory, so I'm going to have to see if I can figure out which Francisco (or Frank) Silva is the right one here in the States.

Elaine

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Cheri Mello

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Jan 14, 2020, 9:10:42 PM1/14/20
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Yes, I have that Virginia linked to Joao Ignacio de Lima and Francisca Rosa de Mello. But JR has her linked wrong. I think he made a typo in his genealogy program because he wrote this:
image.png

JR

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Jan 15, 2020, 12:46:58 AM1/15/20
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I thought I acknowledged the error in my earlier comments. How it got there I don't recall. I just made some other corrections taken from the Ribeira Quente casamentos index.

Bottom line, check your files against the records if you want to be accurate.

JR 
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