Family Tree And Portuguese Ancestry ..

[Anthony Silver]

hello, i'm tracing ancestry, back to Portugal. 

the info I have of one particular person is quite limited.

does anyone have any suggestions or ideas as to where I can find info online ??? 

one resource I have looked at is marinersandships.com.au 

[Cheri Mello]

Hi Anthony,

You need to give us a name, date (or range), and a place. Otherwise, we don't know where to point you. If you are looking in mainland proper, this isn't the list. We are researching the Azores islands.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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[Anthony Silver]

well, the name of my grandfather, 5 or 6 generations ago, is Joseph Silver, born somewhere in the azores, around 1836.

he that's about all I know. 

he took a ship, and came to Australia, from 1850 something. 

the info I have is quite limited. 

[Cheri Mello]

Hi Anthony,

I did not see a Jose Silva or Silveira on the Water Lily that went to Australia in 1853 (I think).

You'll have to use Australian sources to track him there, see if he naturalized, if his obituary said anything, etc. I'm sure those in Australia who have traced their Azorean ancestor may be able to help.

You can use DNA in conjunction with the paper trail too. We've got over 2200-2300 people in the Azores DNA Project on Family Tree DNA. They are most likely going to have another sale beginning on Friday to kick off the holiday season. I'll post that announcement to the list on Friday. You'll want to test the oldest family member on that side. So if you have a parent or aunt/uncle, test them first. If there is no one living except you, then test yourself.

I'll keep the list posted,

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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[Anthony Silver]

I do have one picture of him, which is a portrait.

On Monday, November 25, 2019 at 12:14:33 PM UTC+11, Anthony Silver wrote:

[Cheri Mello]

The 1850s emigration out of the Azores had no photos or portraits. You have a name and a general date. You need a place. Unless another Australian has an idea, you'll have to turn to DNA and see where your matches are researching. The Azores DNA Project on Family Tree DNA is clustering up nicely now :)

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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[Anthony Silver]

so whats the DNA project ?

On Monday, November 25, 2019 at 12:14:33 PM UTC+11, Anthony Silver wrote:

[Cheri Mello]

Family Tree DNA (FTDNA) has allowed for volunteer group administrators to oversee projects. One was created for the Azores and I over see it. We have 2200-2300 members. Because we pool our DNA in a project it allows for us admins to observe patterns and clusters. Once we get the clusters going, we will be able to get a better idea of how long our DNA was in a location and help identify those with no idea where they came from (such as yourself). For those with fragmented DNA, we may be able to help them focus their research - they will have an idea of where to look. Also, there are tools for those in group projects. You can toggle on or off the comparing with others in the project vs. the whole FTDNA database. Also, as our endogamy starts to take shape, we will be able to get a better handle on that as well.

Hope that helps,

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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[Anthony Silver]

and what are the clusters ??? 

On Monday, November 25, 2019 at 12:14:33 PM UTC+11, Anthony Silver wrote:

[Cheri Mello]

Basically, you take the Family Finder test and I look at your Matches. I can tell you if they are researching Sao Miguel island, Flores island, etc. And if you are real lucky, you may find a 2nd cousin who has a tree with your freguesia (village).

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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[Anthony Silver]

is there some sort of genealogy organization in Portugal that I can contact ? 

On Tuesday, November 26, 2019 at 11:13:23 AM UTC+11, Cheri Mello wrote:

Basically, you take the Family Finder test and I look at your Matches. I can tell you if they are researching Sao Miguel island, Flores island, etc. And if you are real lucky, you may find a 2nd cousin who has a tree with your freguesia (village).

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

On Mon, Nov 25, 2019 at 4:11 PM Anthony Silver <thecolou...@gmail.com> wrote:

and what are the clusters ??? 

On Monday, November 25, 2019 at 12:14:33 PM UTC+11, Anthony Silver wrote:

hello, i'm tracing ancestry, back to Portugal. 

the info I have of one particular person is quite limited.

does anyone have any suggestions or ideas as to where I can find info online ??? 

one resource I have looked at is marinersandships.com.au 

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[Cheri Mello]

No. You have to figure out which island and freguesia your ancestor came from. It takes a bit of time and effort. Researching an immigrant ancestor is not easy.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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[E. Sharp]

Are you talking about mainland Portugal? You can try contacting Torre do Tombo in Lisbon. Also website familysearch.org has some records online. Also google Portugal genealogy to see if there are genealogist in one of those sites to help you but be prepared to pay for these services. I have been to Torre do Tombo and I believe most, if not all, their records are located there. They also charge a fee. Depending on what you are looking for, I would hire someone over there to
do the research for you. That’s what I ended up doing years ago as I do not read or speak the language.

“E”

Sent from my iPhone

> On Nov 25, 2019, at 4:34 PM, Anthony Silver <thecolour...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> is there some sort of genealogy organization in Portugal that I can contact.

[Rob Whaite]

Hi Anthony.Did he come to South Australia? If so I may be able to help you. Regards Rob

[Anthony Silver]

South Australia ??? 

ha ha ha .. not that I know of .. 

but hey, anything is possible in this regard .. 

On Monday, November 25, 2019 at 12:14:33 PM UTC+11, Anthony Silver wrote:

[Pamela Hand]

Hi Anthony

There is a Joseph Silver born Portugal abt.1837 who arrived in Sydney NSW on the “India” on 1 April 1859. He was aged 22y. The ship embarked from St Johns New Brunswick Canada.

Do you have any idea where he settled in Australia or where his descendants lived? 

Hope this helps

Pam

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[Anthony Silver]

Hey Pam .. 

yeah you're right, though i don't know for sure whether that is him for not.

im one of his descendents, trying to trace his life, when he lived in azores, somewhere

how he got to Aus, from azores, is something I want to know, not just his life in azores.

thankyou

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[Rob Whaite]

I guess you have looked at ancestry.com?

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[Pamela Hand]

If you can search for an obituary for your Joseph Silver, it may give a clue. That was a very useful source of information for my Azorean 2x great grandfather. It gave us his village and island in the Azores. It also told the story of how he came to Australia. You would need to know where he died and search the newspapers or contact the local historical group. They are always very helpful.

My understanding is that some of the Azoreans who came to Australia and New Zealand were recruited onto American whaling ships. They were often shipwrecked as in my ancestors case or jumped ship, as I believe it was a hard life on these ships.

You need to know the village or freguesia and island in the Azores. Then you can search the archives. Also consider doing DNA testing as Cheri has already suggested.

Good luck

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[Anthony Silver]

what I know, is that he is from somewhere in the azores.

he came to Australia by ship, but which one, back in the 1850's sometime.

he died here in aus, in nsw, being the town of manilla.

there is a genealogy society in Sydney, which I am yet to try.

even his naturalization, and marriage cert had limited info on it.

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[Sonya Thomas]

Sorry to hijack this thread.

Rob, do you have an ancestor from the Azores that came to South Australia?

I have not been able to find much information about arrivals into South Australia from the Azores. My ancestor arrived about 1873, and we do not know what area of the Azores he was from.

Thanks,

Sonya.

On Tuesday, November 26, 2019, Rob Whaite <rwha...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Anthony.Did he come to South Australia? If so I may be able to help you. Regards Rob

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[Rob Whaite]

Hi Sonya Will send you an email Regards Rob

On Saturday, November 30, 2019 at 3:52:28 AM UTC+10:30, Sonya Thomas wrote:

Sorry to hijack this thread.

Rob, do you have an ancestor from the Azores that came to South Australia?

I have not been able to find much information about arrivals into South Australia from the Azores. My ancestor arrived about 1873, and we do not know what area of the Azores he was from.

Thanks,

Sonya.

On Tuesday, November 26, 2019, Rob Whaite <rwha...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi Anthony.Did he come to South Australia? If so I may be able to help you. Regards Rob

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[Pamela Hand]

Hi Anthony

There are a few trees on ancestry.com for Joseph Silver who died 18 Aug 1908 at “Ebbeville” Upper Manila NSW. He married Catherina (Katie) Nowland in 1876 and had 11 or 12 children. Two sons survived to adulthood: Francis Laurence and Paul James Silver.

This Joseph Silver arrived in Sydney on 9 Dec 1864, aged 26 (placing his birth around 1838) from Wellington NZ. He was one of a crew of 8+ the captain. The official records show his birth nation as ”Fayal”, which I would assume is Faial, one of the western islands of the Azores. However the trees on Ancestry have his birth listed as 1841 in Faial da Terra on the island of Sao Miguel. I am inclined to go with the western Island of Faial as more likely, because Faial was listed as the nation not the village. Perhaps someone more familiar with Sao Miguel and Faial da Terra could help here. 

To find where on the island of Faial is a bit trickier. You would need to research the records for each Freguesia (village) for around the time of his birth 1838-1841 or maybe enlist the help of one of this groups genealogists.  

The Manila historical Society could help with obituary etc on www.manillamuseum.org.au or 02 67851207 9-4pm Thursday for historian. You might get lucky with parents names and birth village.

Happy to help further so you can contact me on my email directly, if you wish.  My ancestor from the western island of Flores was a very similar timeframe to your Joseph Silver.

Pam

 

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[Cheri Mello]

Faial (old spelling Fayal) is an island. Faial da Terra is a freguesia on Sao Miguel island.

When an ancestor (especially in that time period) says they are from Faial/Fayal, they mean the island. Either the Ancestry system cannot handle the island alone or the place field suggested Faial da Terra on Sao Miguel. The tree owner is probably completely ignorant of the geography of the Azores and just went with it, without any investigating or thought.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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[Cheri Mello]

P.S. SOME of Faial (island) is indexed on CITCEM: http://www.ghp.ics.uminho.pt/genealogias.html

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

[Pamela Hand]

Thanks for clarifying Cheri.

I had the same thoughts but good to have your thoughts on it too.

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[Anthony Silver]

wow Pam, that's, incredible.

I know of one tree on ancestry but the person hasn't contacted me yet. 

unfortunately I don't know what happened to Peter, being the oldest of Catherine's sons. 

apparently he died at sea in 1909. 

Paul James is my line, and Francis is the other line. 

wow. 

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[Anthony Silver]

questions for anyone who may happen to know the answer/s: 

are there any ports in azores, that still exist, from the 1800's ? 

where in Azores would I find any graves for the parents of my great grandfather ? 

and, is the surname of da silva common in azores; are they all related to each other?  

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[Cheri Mello]

Hi Anthony,

I'm not sure, but I think all the ports physically exist. They are just configured differently. The on in Ponta Delgada can take cruise ships now.

You won't find the graves for your 2 greats, unless someone in the family has been paying the rent on them for all this time. Typically, the remains are left 7 years and then the bones are dug up and placed in an ossuary. Every freguesia now has a cemetery and that is where you will find tombstones. But your relatives may not be there.

Silva is either the number 1 or number 2 most common name in the Azores. No, they are not all related, just like all Jones and Smiths are not all related.

Hope this helps,

[Anthony Silver]

Thanks Cheri.

whats an ossuary? 

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From: azo...@googlegroups.com <azo...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Cheri Mello <gfsc...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 14 January 2020 3:48 PM
To: Azores Genealogy <azo...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Family Tree And Portuguese Ancestry ..

 

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[Cheri Mello]

Hi Anthony,

It's a place to put the bones.

Merriam-Webster says: a depository for the bones of the dead

Dictionary.com says: a place or receptacle for the bones of the dead

[JesseAndDeborah Mendonca]

An ossuary is where the bones of the dead (from many people) are deposited.  It solves the space problem for burial on the islands.  Seven years after the original burial, bones are dug up and put into the church depository called an ossuary.  If a family wanted to continue to pay for the burial site, they could keep the plot longer.  

Debbie

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[Sherry Phillips Swatek]

Quick question. Is there a Y group of Portuguese descendants? With the price about half now of what I paid on another line, I thought it worth another inquiry.

Thank you,

Sherry

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 14, 2020, at 4:53 PM, Anthony Silver <anthony....@hotmail.com> wrote:



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[Cheri Mello]

Y-DNA, mtDNA, and autosomal DNA (Family Finder) are all housed in the Azores DNA project. We accept all types of DNA. :)

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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[Sherry Phillips Swatek]

Great! I will see if I can find it. If there are quite a few participants at least it’s something! 

Sent from my iPhone

On Jan 14, 2020, at 7:04 PM, Cheri Mello <gfsc...@gmail.com> wrote:



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[Cheri Mello]

Log into your kit.

Towards the upper left corner, point to My Projects. When the drop down appears, pick Join a Project

When it loads, scroll down a little to the search box and type: azores

When it comes up, click it. Next screen, scroll down and click the orange JOIN button.

When it asks about your ancestors, type in your Azorean surnames and or islands (whatever you know).

Cheri

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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