Property on the Azores Islands

[figgy33]

I just wanted to inform as many people as possible of an issue that
has been affecting some of us who are currently living away from the
Azores but still have some ties with the Islands either through family
that are still living or deceased.

I am a Portuguese Canadian, my parents were born on the Island of
Santa Maria and moved to Canada in the 70's. Most of my aunts and
uncles moved away from the island as well leaving both my paternal and
maternal grandparents on the Island. Any one familiar with the island
knows that as a result of the emigration of citizens over the recent
history of the Islands has led to many old homesteads and property
unclaimed by heirs who either have little knowledge of the inheritance
laws, do not have knowledge that they have even inherited property or
often feel that the difficulties in making a claim outweigh any
benefits. A lot of land and houses lay abandoned because of this.

Over the past 15 years or so, there have been a number or unscrupulous
people who have taken advantage of this, there are numerous stories of
people selling property to unsuspecting buyers who in the end do not
have legitimate rights to do so. I would like to tell you of our
story.

About ten years ago, a german woman approached my functionally
illiterate grandmother regarding a piece of property that included the
home that my grandfather had been raised in. My grandmother, was
convinced that this woman was genuinely trying to help her out by
taking over the maintence of the property. She understood and
explained to the german woman that the property was partly owned by
her children (my father and his brothers) and that there was no way
that it could be legally sold to her. She indicated that she
completely understood and that she was only looking for a place where
she could spend vacations and they agreed to a long term rental
agreement.

Last year, just after my grandmother passed away, we noticed that my
grandfathers home was listed on the internet up for sale. Since then
we have traveled to Santa Maria a number of times and after speaking
with the land titles office have discovered that this woman has done
this to many families there. Currently there are eight claims against
her. We were extremely lucky to catch her before she actually sold
the property, but we are still in the process of getting the titles
changed to the legitimate heirs. One of the cases that has been heard
and won was for a German couple who purchased a home from her, gave
her the deposit that she had been asking for then after investing a
lot of money on renovations, discovered that the actual heirs lived in
California. They have since rectified everything, and were successful
in getting their deposit back from the person who sold it to them, but
even so, this woman continues to operate there. My parents found out
from city hall on Santa Maria that she has a reputation, that the real
estate agencies no longer accept her listings so she is operating from
Sao Miquel.

I strongly urge people who still have family or ties in the Azores to
be aware of their property and land. I know that since then I have
been scanning the internet all the time for "land for sale on the
Azores".

[Marr...@cs.com]

This is a very old problem. Even for those in the Azores, people often die without wills and the "partilhas" (the division of the estate among the widow and surviving children) are often done by word of mouth and never registered in order to avoid legal fees and taxes. In my father's case, when he bought out his father's share of an estate, he found that the deeds were still in the name of his great grandparents!

The other problem is that, just as in the US, if someone pays the taxes on a property, lives on the property, essentially occupies without interference from the owners, then, after seven years, that person has the right to insist that he be granted title to that property.

I know of many people whose parents and grandparents owned property in the Azores. When the owners die, the heirs take no action to probate these estate (the so called "partilhas"), and trust friend and neighbors to work the land, pay the taxes etc. Unfortunately, some of those friends and neighbors, having paid the taxes for a number of years without reimbursement from the heirs, simply claim the property for themselves. The heirs feel cheated; the people who claim the land feel that, since they've paid the taxes on the land without reimbursement, they are entitled to claim the parcel of land as their own. I've always taken care to take care of these matters. My wife has been much more laissez-faire; as a consequence she has had the unfortunate experience of learning that a parcel she thought was hers now belongs to her cousins! The fault lies with those who just assume that they can ignore an estate matter and with those who take advantage of that ignorance. Idfiggy has presented us with a cautionary tale.

John Miranda Raposo

[Eugenia]

I agree with everyone's comment.

I have a cousin, that asked me to research her Grandmother's land in
Pico. Her Grandmother died over 7 years ago. At the time when her
grandmother died my cousin got a lawyer to look into the property and
was told that the property was worthless.

When she asked me to look into the property a few years ago. The
people named on the Title or to take care of the property were all
dead. I asked a surviving sister of the brother who was one of them
to take care of property about the property. She is old and could not
remember.

It is important to put everything in WRITING. And have in WRITING A
contingent, when the person named is dead what happen to the property
etc.

Do not assume that the land or money is going to be there waiting for
you to claim it.

I have a question??
I thought a few years ago that land that was abandon for a certain
amount of time that the Portuguese Government took the land and gave
it or sold it. Is this true?

Eugenia
Eugen...@Yahoo.com

[Karen Huffman]

My families problem with a property is Sao Miguel is just the opposite. The property is connected to 3 or 4 other homes. They are on the waterfront. The front of the property faces the street and the back is the ocean with no windows to view it! It was my grandfathers since 1920. My grandparents had never been back. After my grandfather died in 1958, my grandmother tried selling it. People live in it....still. My father and his siblings tried selling it 3 times since my grandmother died. No luck. No matter what they do or what papers they provide, they cannot get the powers that be to remove their names from the title. My aunt even went back there last year. She took pictures and talked with the family in the house. They want to live there and stay there but we can't get the title transferred. They tried saying it was a gift. To us the property looks in disrepair and not worth anything. We don't understand the problem with the title. Maybe they have different rules or ways of looking at it. As our family sees it. Since 1920 somebody or many people have had free housing. None of us are bothered by that. We are bothered by the fact that the title is still in our family name. What happens if someone gets hurt or they want to tear it down at the owners expense? Will our family still be held liable after all these years? Or are they not sue happy and land scheme happy like some people in the U.S. ?

--
Hugs and Blessings from Karen (Medeiros) Huffman in Paso Robles, CA USA

Searching for Medeiros and Cabral in Sao Miguel, Santos, Silva and Costa in Terceira Acores.

Searching for Anderson and Swanson in Sweden and Schaeffer and Schommer in Germany.

[nancy jean baptiste]

 

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Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 10:57:59 -0700
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Property on the Azores Islands
From: khuf...@charter.net
To: Azo...@googlegroups.com

My families problem with a property is Sao Miguel is just the opposite. The property is connected to 3 or 4 other homes. They are on the waterfront. The front of the property faces the street and the back is the ocean with no windows to view it! It was my grandfathers since 1920. My grandparents had never been back. After my grandfather died in 1958, my grandmother tried selling it. People live in it....still. My father and his siblings tried selling it 3 times since my grandmother died. No luck. No matter what they do or what papers they provide, they cannot get the powers that be to remove their names from the title. My aunt even went back there last year. She took pictures and talked with the family in the house. They want to live there and stay there but we can't get the title transferred. They tried saying it was a gift. To us the property looks in disrepair and not worth anything. We don't understand the problem with the title. Maybe they have different rules or ways of looking at it. As our family sees it. Since 1920 somebody or many people have had free housing. None of us are bothered by that. We are bothered by the fact that the title is still in our family name. What happens if someone gets hurt or they want to tear it down at the owners expense? Will our family still be held liable after all these years? Or are they not sue happy and land scheme happy like some people in the U.S. ?

On Sun, May 17, 2009 at 2:34 PM, Eugenia <Eugen...@yahoo.com> wrote:

I agree with everyone's comment.

I have a cousin, that asked me to research her Grandmother's land in
Pico.  Her Grandmother died over 7 years ago.  At the time when her
grandmother died my cousin got a lawyer to look into the property and
was told that the property was worthless.

When she asked me to look into the property a few years ago.  The

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[nancy jean baptiste]

When we bought our property on Pico it took over a year from the time we gave them earnest money for the title to be brought current and legal to transfer. Property issues are very complex in the Azores and it would probably be worth your while to retain a property lawyer in Sao Miguel. I'm sure someone on the list who lives there could recommend one for you.
Nancy Jean

 

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Date: Mon, 18 May 2009 10:57:59 -0700
Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Property on the Azores Islands
From: khuf...@charter.net
To: Azo...@googlegroups.com

My families problem with a property is Sao Miguel is just the opposite. The property is connected to 3 or 4 other homes. They are on the waterfront. The front of the property faces the street and the back is the ocean with no windows to view it! It was my grandfathers since 1920. My grandparents had never been back. After my grandfather died in 1958, my grandmother tried selling it. People live in it....still. My father and his siblings tried selling it 3 times since my grandmother died. No luck. No matter what they do or what papers they provide, they cannot get the powers that be to remove their names from the title. My aunt even went back there last year. She took pictures and talked with the family in the house. They want to live there and stay there but we can't get the title transferred. They tried saying it was a gift. To us the property looks in disrepair and not worth anything. We don't understand the problem with the title. Maybe they have different rules or ways of looking at it. As our family sees it. Since 1920 somebody or many people have had free housing. None of us are bothered by that. We are bothered by the fact that the title is still in our family name. What happens if someone gets hurt or they want to tear it down at the owners expense? Will our family still be held liable after all these years? Or are they not sue happy and land scheme happy like some people in the U.S. ?

 

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[Cheri Mello]

Karen,

From my understanding, they are not sue happy in the Azores like it is in America. 

When I saw the tourada a corda (bull on a rope) on Terceira, and the men going out there standing in front of the bull, I asked the band director if that was a lawsuit waiting to happen.  He said no, they don't sue for everything there like they do in America.  If you're dumb enough to stand in front of the bull and you get hurt, it's your problem and the lawyers there would not take your case.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

[Karen Huffman]

It really is too bad that the U.S. can't use common sense like that!  I always thought that my Portuguese side of the family was more down to earth and good common sense. Now I know it to be true! The other side well......