Ajuda de Bretanha early records

[David Amaral]

Hi everyone,

Bottom line up front: Are Ajuda de Bretanha records pre 1700's tracked in a different freguesia? If not, are there more records somewhere?

I was tracking some ancestors from Ajuda de Bretanha back and put them into ancestry and discovered that someone had tracked them back pretty far. I like to confirm these hints with actual documentation. I was able to find birth records for all of them up until 1726, the earliest record on tombo.pt. However, my distant cousins have specific birth dates before 1726, leading me to believe they found other records. My theory is they were filed/originally recorded in a different freguesia. I checked Ginetes, Santa Barbara, Mosteiros, and Capelas and didn't find the records there, though I could be wrong.

Thanks,
David Amaral

[Cheri Mello]

Hi David A,

No, the earlier records are not in another freguesia. Yes, there are more records somewhere.

Background:

Once upon a time, no central repository existed for vital records in Portugal. Everyone simply used the Catholic Church. So when Ernesto do Canto (1831-1900) and Carlos Machado (1828-1901) created genealogies, they must have gone to the church to look at the records (or somehow borrowed them. I don't know how that worked). They had direct access to the records that still existed in their lifetimes. Then in 1911, a change in government occurred and it was decided to establish a vital records (civil registry) of births, marriages, and deaths. Since nothing existed, the government obtained the books from the Catholic Church. They way in which the books were obtained didn't sit right with Catholic officials. They felt their books were snatched away from them. The archive system and civil registries were then created as we know them. Still, some didn't feel good about turning these books over. One priest held back a book and hid it under his bed. The rest of the books were turned over. The book that he held back was the earliest baptisms from Bretanha (Ajuda). And the priests since 1911 have kept that one book at the church.

I cannot remember the name of the gentleman who went to Bretanha (Ajuda) and talked to that priest and saw the book. This must have been the late 1990s or early 2000s. So that first baptism book was still there at the church, at least around late 1990s - 2000s.

Some of the dates you are finding may be from Rodrigo Rodrigues (RR) or Carlos Machado, since they had direct access to the books. RR did more prominent families. Not sure what Carlos Machado did. I would guess it would be more prominent families. Carlos Machado's work (650+ pages on HUGE atlas size paper) was compiled by Fr. Joe Vivieiros, with the assistance of George Pacheco and John Raposo. Fr. Joe entered all the data into his genealogy program and made a Gedcom. That can still be purchased for $50 USD. Fr. Joe is now retired, but George still burns the CDs. You can contact George at bretanha1954 at yahoo.com and ask him who to make the check to and where to mail it.

The only other note that I have says: Index of baptisms (beginning in 1606) and marriages (beginning in 1569) running through 1721 with gaps, by the Vicar, André de Sousa Dias, in 1727, available at the archives in Ponta Delgada. It was not digitized, nor was the work (indices) of Ernesto do Canto.

John Raposo in addition to George Pacheco does a lot of Bretanha research. George was born there. I'm not sure if he's actively monitoring this list, but John is. He'll correct or add to anything I've said.

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

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[John Raposo]

Re baptismal records pre 1727 and pre 1703 marriage records from Bretanha:

 

What was left of the records were destroyed in 1738 by the then Vicar of Bretanha, André de Sousa Dias. He found those records to be in a deplorable state of decomposition due to time and the elements and decided that before they were lost forever, he would make an index of what was still left of them. He must have worked on them during his leisure time over an 11 year period (1727-1738). His index is by no means a complete listing of every baptism pre 1727 and pre 1703 marriage. There are many gaps.

 

When the republican government confiscated all baptismal, marriage and death records in 1910, the vicar’s index was not considered “records” but merely an index. Thus they remained in Ajuda for many years thereafter until a vicar decided to send the index to the Archives in Ponta Delgada before they were lost or deteriorated by time and the elements. Thank God, he did. They are still there. In this index, baptisms go back to 1606 (and include the names of the godparents as well as parents) and marriages go back to 1569! It was from these indices that do Canto, Machado and Rodrigues and others obtained those early baptisms and marriages. Father Octávio Luis dos Reis, a native of Pilar, developed his own baptismal index from the Vicar’s Index. That manuscript is also at the Archives. Dr. Miguel Soares da Silva has typed out a new index from the Vicar’s original. I do not know if it is available from the Archives.

 

As for records under the bed, not so many years ago, a new Vicar found six old decaying marriage records in the parsonage and had the presence of mind to send them to the Archives.

 

And that, as Paul Harvey used to say on the radio, is the rest of the story!

 

Best regards,

 

John Miranda Raposo

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[David Amaral]

Well that was much more interesting and dramatic than I expected. Thanks for your informative responses! I'm glad I asked.

David

[Cheri Mello]

Hi John,

I'm writing your notes down on my FHLC printout.

When you said, "As for records under the bed, not so many years ago, a new Vicar found six old decaying marriage records in the parsonage and had the presence of mind to send them to the Archives," you meant 6 individual records, not 6 books, correct?

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/1371502107.270770.1611690917679%40mail.yahoo.com.

[John Raposo]

Hi, Cheri!

They were 6 registrations, not books. The theory is that since they are reflected in the Vicar's index, the Vicar either forgot to destroy them, or thought to save them for some reason.

Have a great week.

John

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[Cheri Mello]

OK, just wanted to be sure. I wanted to fix my notes so they are current.  Thanks!

Cheri Mello
Listowner, Azores-Gen
Researching: São Miguel island: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das Tainhas, Achada

To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/azores/1028253538.583423.1611775206387%40mail.yahoo.com.