Fwd: AZAPO
Funani ka Ntontela
From: Sodayisi, Vuyani (Mr) (Summerstrand Campus South) <Vuyani....@nmmu.ac.za>
Date: Thu, May 7, 2009 at 12:41 AM
Subject: RE: AZAPO
To: Mandla Hanise <mha...@toyota.co.za>
Cc: Aquila Hanise <aha...@aspenpharma.com>, Andile Mngxitama <And...@fhr.org.za>, "aza...@webmail.co.za" <aza...@webmail.co.za>, "azasco.p...@executivemail.co.za" <azasco.p...@executivemail.co.za>, "azasco.s...@executivemail.co.za" <azasco.s...@executivemail.co.za>, "TutuCetywayo (TT)" <Cety...@telkom.co.za>, Funani ka Ntontela <funanika...@gmail.com>, "Goodman Gladile (G)" <Gla...@telkom.co.za>, Lebohang Situkuza <Lebohang...@capetown.gov.za>, "lentle...@gmail.com" <lentle...@gmail.com>, Luvuyo Msizi <lms...@communicare.org.za>, Luvuyo Ndyenga <Luvuyo....@gauteng.gov.za>, L Phillips <l.phi...@inter-volve.co.za>, Malibongwe Ndyebi <Malibong...@capetown.gov.za>, Mandla Hanise <mandla...@gmail.com>, "map...@vwsa.co.za" <map...@vwsa.co.za>, Andile Matshoba <mat...@vwsa.co.za>, Mbulelo Ntlabati <Mbulelo....@uct.ac.za>, "MDa...@sars.gov.za" <MDa...@sars.gov.za>, Mpumelelo Toyise <mpume...@meibc.co.za>, "Andile Ndevu (A)" <Nde...@telkom.co.za>, Philly Thuntsa <Philly....@gauteng.gov.za>, RampaiMosiuoa <ramp...@hotmail.com>, "Sanda.M...@dana.com" <Sanda.M...@dana.com>, Sibongile Dondashe <sibon...@raf.co.za>, Sivuyile Masiza <Sivuyil...@dpw.gov.za>, Thembinkosi Josopu <thembinko...@uct.ac.za>, "xmam...@sars.gov.za" <xmam...@sars.gov.za>
Dear Cde President Mandla. Long time.
I am not certain about the meaning of your introductory / topical sentence. By ‘stance’ are you inferring that I am having a deviant view to the convention? Or an outright rigidly right wing stand point? Or are you referring strictly to my posture( which is naturally in this instance)? I hope to get these answers in another forum/ platform.
I thought in my ‘stancer’s mind’ all what AZAPO and the BCM in general want to achieve is a total liberated Azania(read AZAPO and Azanian Manifesto). I didn’t realise that all what the BCM wants to achieve according to you is “doing well in general elections, financial viability, organizational cohesion, structural solidity, ethics and values, respect for the rule of law and will of its members, etc.”
As I said in my introductory topic I am still not sure what you mean comrade. Of course politics is about power and to get power one must get numbers. But, this is no means to an end! Are we in this struggle to achieve 400 marks as you implies ? Or are we to reverse centuries of mental slavery, land disposition? I can’t agree more on organisational cohesion, ethics and values. I wonder what rule of law are you talking about and who disrespected it in this instance? How this issue of rule of law is correlated to AZAPO’s performance in these previous elections or in any other elections.
As I said in my aforementioned statement, these issues need an appropriate forum to discuss. Good morning and good day comrade.
From: Mandla Hanise [mailto:mha...@toyota.co.za]
Sent: 07 May 2009 09:06 AM
To: Sodayisi, Vuyani (Mr) (Summerstrand Campus South)
Cc: Aquila Hanise; Andile Mngxitama; aza...@webmail.co.za; azasco.p...@executivemail.co.za; azasco.s...@executivemail.co.za; TutuCetywayo (TT); Funani ka Ntontela; Goodman Gladile (G); Lebohang Situkuza; lentle...@gmail.com; Luvuyo Msizi; Luvuyo Ndyenga; L Phillips; Malibongwe Ndyebi; Mandla Hanise; map...@vwsa.co.za; Andile Matshoba; Mbulelo Ntlabati; MDa...@sars.gov.za; Mpumelelo Toyise; Andile Ndevu (A); Philly Thuntsa; RampaiMosiuoa; Sanda.M...@dana.com; Sibongile Dondashe; Sivuyile Masiza; Thembinkosi Josopu; xmam...@sars.gov.za
Subject: RE: AZAPO
Sodayisi,
I think Tower you have a stance!
You are very naughty to say an answer to a question is a question, this is silliness of the most refined stance.
How can an answer be "which exam?", this in itself is an absolute question.
To answer your question, exam in this case is all that the BCM wants to achieve.
By this, I mean things like doing well in general elections, financial viability, organizational cohesion,
structural solidity, ethics and values, respect for the rule of law and will of its members, etc.
With the amazing and all important Philosophy of Black Consciousness that I say is way beyond silly tests,
we should not have problems with the few things I have mentioned above.
When I say BCM has got questions and answers, I mean a student faced with an exam will not have a
problem with the exam no matter how dificult it can be when (s)he has got questions and answers for that exam.
So for me BC is questions and answers for all our problems/exams in Azania, hence I say it is beyond questions or tests.
You pose a question as to "how do you determine and or decide failure?"
I take it from the clarity I have provided above this question no longer arise.
But the way I know stancers out there, I will leave nothing to chance, I am generous today.
- To contest 3 general elections and in each time walk away with 1 good answer out of 400 questions is a dismal failure at least to me.
- To have a small organization with such a philosophy is not acceptable evn by the lowest of low standards.
- Rule of law and the will of the majority is sacred, etc, etc, etc, etc.
I am writing this email with a painful lump in my throat!!
Mandla Hanise
Azayo President
The answer to this question is Which ‘exam’? and how do you determine and or decide failure? BC has long passed the test as you yourself agrees there is no question about its relevancy.
From: Mandla Hanise [mailto:mha...@toyota.co.za]
Sent: 05 May 2009 03:32 PM
To: Sivuyile Masiza
Cc: Aquila Hanise; Andile Mngxitama; aza...@webmail.co.za; azasco.p...@executivemail.co.za; azasco.s...@executivemail.co.za; TutuCetywayo (TT); Funani ka Ntontela; Goodman Gladile (G); Lebohang Situkuza; lentle...@gmail.com; Luvuyo Msizi; Luvuyo Ndyenga; L Phillips; Malibongwe Ndyebi; Mandla Hanise; map...@vwsa.co.za; Andile Matshoba; Mbulelo Ntlabati; MDa...@sars.gov.za; Mpumelelo Toyise; Andile Ndevu (A); Philly Thuntsa; RampaiMosiuoa; Sanda.M...@dana.com; Sibongile Dondashe; Thembinkosi Josopu; Sodayisi, Vuyani (Mr) (Summerstrand Campus South); xmam...@sars.gov.za
Subject: Re: AZAPO
Mshula,
I think you are slightly turning into a radio star these days. Everytime I switch on to SAfm, you are there puffing.
On a serious note I got the show in the second half.
I agree with Nel when he says there is no question about the relevancy of BC.
I think the question which should be on the table is:
How does it happen for people (BCM) with questions and answers to fail an exam?
Kind regards
Mandla
|
"Sivuyile Masiza" <Sivuyil...@dpw.gov.za> 2009/05/04 10:04 AM |
|
So what do you think Msizi? I am quickly attending going out of the office I will be back in a flash!
S. L. Masiza
Utilization, Contracts Admin & PMIS
National Department of Public Works
Tel. : 041 408 2164
Fax : 041 484 7825
From: Luvuyo Msizi [mailto:lms...@Communicare.org.za]
Sent: 04 May 2009 09:26 AM
To: Thembinkosi Josopu; Lebohang Situkuza; Malibongwe Ndyebi; Andile Mngxitama; Vuyani (Mr) (Summerstrand Campus South) Sodayisi; Sibongile Dondashe; Mandla Hanise
Cc: Aquila Hanise; Sanda.M...@dana.com; Sivuyile Masiza; azasco.p...@executivemail.co.za; azasco.s...@executivemail.co.za; Luvuyo Ndyenga; Philly Thuntsa; Funani ka Ntontela; lentle...@gmail.com; Mandla Hanise; RampaiMosiuoa; L Phillips; Mpumelelo Toyise; MDa...@sars.gov.za; xmam...@sars.gov.za; TutuCetywayo (TT); Goodman Gladile (G); Andile Ndevu (A); Mbulelo Ntlabati; map...@vwsa.co.za; Andile Matshoba; aza...@webmail.co.za
Subject: RE: threats wont help
Comrades, please tune in to SAFM. They are talking about BC and the whether AZAPO is the custodian of BC or not.
From: Thembinkosi Josopu [mailto:thembinko...@uct.ac.za]
Sent: 28 April 2009 11:44 AM
To: Lebohang Situkuza; Malibongwe Ndyebi; Andile Mngxitama; Vuyani (Mr) (Summerstrand Campus South) Sodayisi; Sibongile Dondashe; Mandla Hanise
Cc: Aquila Hanise; Luvuyo Msizi; Sanda.M...@dana.com; Sivuyil...@dpw.gov.za; azasco.p...@executivemail.co.za; azasco.s...@executivemail.co.za; Luvuyo Ndyenga; Philly Thuntsa; Funani ka Ntontela; lentle...@gmail.com; Mandla Hanise; RampaiMosiuoa; L Phillips; Mpumelelo Toyise; MDa...@sars.gov.za; xmam...@sars.gov.za; TutuCetywayo (TT); Goodman Gladile (G); Andile Ndevu (A); Mbulelo Ntlabati; map...@vwsa.co.za; Andile Matshoba; aza...@webmail.co.za
Subject: RE: threats wont help
Importance: High
Cde Vuyani
Some in AZAPO are indeed thugs, example Cde Dan Habedi received a scary sms when he left AZAPO after some serious pressure from the DST cabal, you might have heard or saw some e-mails coming from a character known by the name Rethabile(pseudonym) who claims to be an AZAPO defender, if you never heard of him I can forward you all the mails to judge for yourself.
Some of us have always been saying that AZAPO used to produce free thinkers/public intellectuals who were in the forefront in the production of knowledge, these guys were know to speak truth to power and they have always adopted a scientific approach in discussion. where are they? is AZAPO still known for such? why not? these are difficult questions we need to ask ourselves, my stupid view of the cause is that debate has been stifled and anyone who challenge the status quo would be purged.
How do you expel a person based on hearsay evidence? or not even hearing his side of the story? hence some of us agree with Andile when he says AZAPO is a black fascist party, we even went to an extant of proving how fascist it is and no one disputed that with facts of course.
Some of the things I can say in this forum but when one on one I might share them with you, my dear comrade I don't blame you because you analyze things based on a helicopter view.
Thembinkosi Josopu
Student Admissions & Advocacy Services
Department of Student Affairs
University of Cape Town
Level 3, Kramer Law building
Middle Campus
Rondebosch,7700
Tel :021-650-5309
Fax:021-650-4014
Cell:073-250-7946
"Its easier to move from failure to success than from excuses to success"
>>> "Sodayisi, Vuyani (Mr) (Summerstrand Campus South)" <Vuyani....@nmmu.ac.za> 2009/04/28 11:19 AM >>>
Lets not jump into conclusions comrades. We should also always respect the name of Azapo. I do not have brief to speak on Azapo’s behalf, but I would like to dissociate Azapo as an organisation in all this madness. Andile knows the proper channels if he has a query about Azapo. Equally, he is aware that Azapo and or its members could never engaged in such thuggery behaviour. I humble appeal to all of you comrades to stop rubbishing the name of Azapo.
From: Thembinkosi Josopu [mailto:thembinko...@uct.ac.za]
Sent: 28 April 2009 10:34 AM
To: Lebohang Situkuza; Malibongwe Ndyebi; Andile Mngxitama; Sodayisi, Vuyani (Mr) (Summerstrand Campus South); Sibongile Dondashe; Mandla Hanise
Cc: Aquila Hanise; Luvuyo Msizi; Sanda.M...@dana.com; Sivuyil...@dpw.gov.za; azasco.p...@executivemail.co.za; azasco.s...@executivemail.co.za; Luvuyo Ndyenga; Philly Thuntsa; Funani ka Ntontela; lentle...@gmail.com; Mandla Hanise; Rampai Mosiuoa; L Phillips; Mpumelelo Toyise; MDa...@sars.gov.za; xmam...@sars.gov.za; Tutu Cetywayo (TT); Goodman Gladile (G); Andile Ndevu (A); Mbulelo Ntlabati; map...@vwsa.co.za; Andile Matshoba; aza...@webmail.co.za
Subject: Re: threats wont help
Importance: High
Comrade Ace that's what they specialize in, indeed you are correct when you say the bc has taught us to express ourselves without any of fear whatsoever. I was on leave and I have been observing some absurd arguments by some whom i have respect in this forum.
I was hurting when I heard that AZAPO got a seat in Parliament but to a certain extant Dr Mcebisi Ndletyana a BC adherent said, yenzelwe inceba iAZAPO ngumama uBrigalia Bam because they didn't get the threshold. Ifumene imvuthuluka ewa etafileni, eish! this people are killing BIKO's movement.
Hay nam mandiyeke ukuthethat izinto ezisecaleni.....ungoyiki tata!
Forward Ever! Backward Never!
Thembinkosi Josopu
Student Admissions & Advocacy Services
Department of Student Affairs
University of Cape Town
Level 3, Kramer Law building
Middle Campus
Rondebosch,7700
Tel :021-650-5309
Fax:021-650-4014
Cell:073-250-7946
"Its easier to move from failure to success than from excuses to success"
>>> "Andile Mngxitama" <And...@fhr.org.za> 2009/04/28 10:05 AM >>>
Dear All
Yesterday I was on SAFM where I simply repeated my by now well known critique of the existing BCM and Azapo in particular. I later received news from a reliable source that some senior Azapo leader has been fuming and has undertaken some “intelligence” gathering on me (whether he is doing it on his volition or as part of a collective response I don’t know and don’t care). The inference is that some ruin will be visited upon my person. I don’t want to waste my time with this but I’m highly disappointed and decided to report this on this list. I have been brutal in my criticism, I have been honest, I have argued and put forward perspectives. No one has yet provided a useful response to my criticism or said my critique is in bad faith. I have by the way received a lot positive feedback from a lot of people both in Azapo and outside, others have encouraged me because they believe now its time of brutal critique if bc is to be rescued. I have never been malicious and no one has yet accused me of working for the enemy. I may be misguided in my zeal to elaborate a combative black consciousness, but Jesus I never work against black people’s interests.
Let me say just before the elections I was offered a 1000 words piece to elaborate my criticism on Azapo. I refused to write it sensing that the media wanted me to enter some Anti Azapo campaigning process. But that was a principled position I took. im no ones bulldog. And I shall not be intimidated. I learned many things in the BCM one of them is to speak my mind an shall do so with glee…
Hotep!
andile
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