1488 record for Barbeth

[Bob McClure]

Hello,

I'm a family history researcher from Chicago.

I found your website trying to work out the place of a 1488 document.

Are there parish records for the place mentioned?

Thanks,

Bob McClure

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2og959v8mkr49o2/The%20Acts%20of%20the%20Lords%20Auditors%20of%20Causes.doc?dl=0

[Susan McGavin]

Have your tried Scotland's People and www.familysearch.org\\\\\\\\\/ 

 Susan

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From: Bob McClure <mcclur...@gmail.com>
To: ayrshir...@googlegroups.com
Sent: Saturday, June 6, 2015 11:28 AM
Subject: [Ayrshire History] 1488 record for Barbeth

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[Deborah Rea]

Bob,

I tried to open the link you sent but it needs a password.

Regards,

Debbie Rea

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[Bob McClure]

Hello,

I have it this way.

*… the rest of page 114 and and then page 127.

Have mercy,

Bob

(Page preceding 114)  

Acta Dominorum Auditorum  

IN PARLIAMENTIS REGIS IACOBI IV.

Apud Edinburgh,  

VI DIE OCTOBRIS A. D. M,CCCC,LXXXVIII.

___________________________

PARLIAMENTUM Excellentℓmj  Pricipis ac Dñj ñri

metuendℓmj Dñj Jacobj quartj dei gracia Regis Sco-

torum Illuftrℓm tentū et Inchoat Apud Edinburgh

die lune fexto die menß Octobris Anno Dñj millefimo

quadnigentℓmo Octuagefimo octauo

 

SECUNDA DIES P̃LIAMĒTI

DÑI ELECT AD CAUSAS

 

PRO CLERO

EP̃US ABIRDONEÑ

ABBAS DE PASTLETO

MAG̃R PATRICIUS LETH OFFI† GLASGUEÑ

PRO BARONIBUS

COMES MARISCALLI

DÑS DRŪMOND

DÑS GLĀMIS

 

PRo QISSIIS

JACOBUS CRECHTOUÑ NŌ PO

WILELM9 MŪNORGUND

DUNCANUS FORST

……………………………………………

The lordℓ Auditoℓ Decretℓ and Deliuis that Johne

lord kĒnydy Johne of montgŪry & michiell mcLure

Ff

The lordℓ Auditoℓ Decretℓ and Deliuis that Johne

lord kĒnydy Johne of montgŪry & michiell mcLure

Ff

(Page 114)

fall devoid ɬ Ređ the land of barbetħ And Als pat

Archibald Crawford of Crawfurdland fall devoid t

Ređ the landf of bordland to Jonete hāmiltouñ laidy

of gaitgirtħ to be peceably broikit joifit t manurit

be hir ef & the forme of or ……*

[Bob McClure]

Thanks Susan & Debbie,

There were two records, one, the first, and plainer, didn't get  onto dropbox,

somehow.

I'm going to try again when I get to my computer. 

They say something about Michell McClure and Johne Lord

Kennedy shall pay Jonete Hamiltoun rent, or damages in 1488.

I see what you mean that dropbox asks for a sign up. Did it disappear?

ie.,  Scotland's People, the Newberry Library in Chicago has many

searchable manuscripts I can copy if I know what they are.

Is this the Parish of Stair?  I find most McClure names in registries.

But it would be surprising to find a little history such as this, however.

They came to the plantations of Ireland, supposedly from Galloway. 

I apologize for being an excited outsider.  I'll cut off here.

You're the greatest,

Bob

Chicago

[Tookie Bunten]

Hi 

If gaitgirtħ  is Gadgirth then that's out towards Annbank on the River Ayr and Crawfordland is Fenwick, I think? Not sure if that helps.

Regards

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[Deborah Rea]

Bob,

I googled the names of Michell McClure and John Lord Kennedy and found the following on line:  https://ia700401.us.archive.org/15/items/mcclurefamily00mccl/mcclurefamily00mccl_bw.pdf.  I did a search for Barbeth within the document - see what you wrote on p. 4. 

"In the Acta Dom. Audit., published by the government in 1839, there is, under date of October 6, 1488, a decree that Johue Lord Kennydy, Johne of Montgomery and Michiell McLure shall devoid, &c., the lands of Barbeth to Janete Hamiltowu. There is a record of January 24, 1489, that Johne Lord Kennydy, Johne of Montgomery, and Michell McClure shall pay to Janete Hamiltown, &c. (Note the two spellings of the name in this short extract.) Barbeth is close to Kirkintulloch, northeast of Glasgow".

More on the McClures from wikisource:   http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_McClure_Family/Introduction

By the way, I have some Montgomerys and Hamiltons on my tree.  If interested, you can contact me at debora...@gmail.com.  I will be going up to Ayrshire on the 20 June for 3 weeks.

Regards,

Debbie Rea

 

On 8 June 2015 at 20:44, Bob McClure <mcclur...@gmail.com> wrote:

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[maveryc]

The Kennedys were the ruling family of Carrick, basically what is now South Ayrshire. John, Lord Kennedy's son David was made 1st Earl of Cassilis in 1508.  The Kennedy's base was at Dunure Castle, and they had a House in Maybole.  They have an "interesting" history, which includes the "Roasting of the Commendator of Crossraguel Abbey" to get him to sign over the Abbey and it's lands and tithes to them.  The only current reference I can find to Barbeth is Low Barbeth Farm on the peninsular north of Stranraer in Dumfries and Galloway, this would be very close to the lands ruled by the Kennedys, close enough for them to interfere... The Craufords, along with the Campbells of Loudoun were blood enemies of the Kennedys, the Craufords being the ruling family of Kyle, and the Earl of Loudoun their close ally.  The second Earl of Cassilis was waylaid and murdered by the Craufords, under the direction of Lady Loudoun, at Prestwick near Ayr as he returned from Edinburgh. For Jonet Hamiltoun see: http://homepages.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~chalmers/WrittenRefs/HeraldryVol2.html for info about the Chalmers of Gaigirth, she is mentioned here: http://www.archive.org/stream/scottishantiqua04unkngoog/scottishantiqua04unkngoog_djvu.txt. 

[Bob McClure]

Hi Debbie,

That's terribly romantic.  Her name is all over that record.  It's amazing, but not unheard of for a woman to be pursuing her rights in court.  The Acts of the Lords Auditors of Causes & Complaints: A.d.m. Cccc. Lxvi. - A.d.m. Cccc. Xciv. , 1839. Print.  pp. 114 (and preceding) & 127.  

Thanks,

Bob

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[Bob McClure]

Hi Mavery,

I really appreciated your reply. 

Are you familiar with Phillipa Gregory? 

I believe she mentioned Gilbert Kennedy, in 'Mary Queen of Scots' as at least having a knowledge of the

bombing-strangling plot at 'Kirk o Field' that killed her husband , Lord Darnley, and blew up his house in Edinburgh in 1567.

Bob

[Bob McClure]

Correction:     

            Mary, Queen of Scots, and the Murder of Lord Darnley, by Alison Weir.

Sorry,  I hope there are no complications.

Bob

[Bob McClure]

Chin up from America,

What's this translation?.

“From Carrick shore to the Cruives of Cree,

Nae man may hope to live or thrive,

Unless he court aKennedy”

As Always, Have Mercy,

Robert Mcclure

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[Bruce McDowall]

Hello Bob,

That quote refers to the influence of the KENNEDYs. The 2015 contribution of maveryc on this thread deals with that influences and why one would have needed to "court" the KENNEDYs if doing business in the Carrick area. 

The Carrick shore ran from the Doon river southward to the border with Wigtownshire,

The Cruives of Cree was a fishing facility on the Cree river in Wigtownshire, about 6 km or 4 miles upstream of Newton Stewart. The word cruive can also mean a simple habitable hut or a pig stye, but in this context it was wooden fish traps. They were banned in 1860, so remains of them have long since gone.

The KENNEDYs also had property in Wigtownshire, notably: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Kennedy_(castle)

BTW, if you happen to visit South Ayrshire I recommend a visit to Culzean Castle.

Bruce

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