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For example the policy say use sentence case (see WP:TITLEFORMAT), but it depends on surveying usage in reliable sources and the policy "generally prefers the name that is most commonly used (as determined by its prevalence in a significant majority ..."

However the link on capital letters goes to a MOS page that states in a section called "Military terms "The general rule is that wherever a military term is an accepted proper name, as indicated by consistent capitalization in sources, it should be capitalized"

If this second piece of guidence is use then it would be possible to argue that just one inconsistent source in one hundred is enough to state that the guidence is that it is not a proper name so don't capitalise even though under the AT policy it ought to be.

The MOS is rule based and often contradictory to the AT sourced based approach. So fixing the MOS to conform with the AT policy is pointless. It is better when "see also" is used in the naming conventions to make it clear that the wording in the MOS is not part of the AT guidance. So has anyone else any opinions how to fix this particular problem. -- PBS (talk) 19:08, 1 July 2019 (UTC)

WP:AT is a policy and the policy states among other things "Use sentence case" so by default this section is not about a question of which case to use, it is a question of when sentences in the MOS contains things that are contrary to the WP:AT policy, and what to do about the disharmony this causes. User:Dicklyon you write " It's better to agree on what our styling guidance should be, make sure it's right in the MOS..." then why does the sentence "Military terms "The general rule is that wherever a military term is an accepted proper name, as indicated by consistent capitalization in sources, it should be capitalized" exists in WP:MOSCAP? The point is that those few editors actively involved in writing the MOS tend to base their rules on those of American style guides, while the WP:AT policy tends to be based on usage in reliable sources. Even if there was harmony today the MOS is very large and inevitably contradictions emerge, because those writing the MOS are primarily thinking about article content and not article titles when they make a change. You User:Dicklyon are a prime example of how people confuse the two when you make an requested move of an article title using WP:MOSCAP instead of WP:LOWERCASE when there is a sentence in WP:MOSCAP that contradicts the WP:AT policy. For example when you requested the move of Burma Campaign to Burma campaign if the MOS and the policy are in harmony why did you write "Per WP:NCCAPS and MOS:CAPS," instead of writing "Per WP:LOWERCASE and WP:NCCAPS,"? If you had used the link to the policy and its guidelines any contradictions (such as the one I highlighted here) between MOS and AT policy would have been irrelevant. -- PBS (talk) 13:11, 17 July 2019 (UTC)

Why is our hypothetical reader visiting WP:COMMONNAME in the first place? If they're following a link to the shortcut that someone left in a discussion, then presumably Wikipedia:Article_titles#Use_commonly_recognizable_names is precisely the content that editor was referring to, and there's no need to navigate to any other page to understand their intention. Colin M (talk) 21:12, 19 July 2019 (UTC)

I've known for years that Google adjusts their links very quickly after a title change on WP. For example, we moved The Americans (2013 TV series) to The Americans on 6/26 and within days if not hours searching for "The Americans" on Google resulted in a link pointing directly to _Americans. But I've been watching bing.com (and Yahoo which uses Bing) and they're still pointing to the old link at _Americans_(2013_TV_series). So I wondered how long it takes Bing to update. Then I checked "Hillary Clinton"... wow, that's still pointing to _Rodham_Clinton - and that was moved way back in 2015. So they effectively never update. Now this has little effect on users because of our redirects, but it does effect page view counts. That is, those redirects continue to get page views only because Bing is still sending users through them. For example, Hillary Rodham Clinton is still averaging 179 views per day[1], which is probably distorted due to Bing.

I'm thinking we need an RfC on DIFFCAPS. I'm not seeing a lot of support for it in the larger Wiki community. At this point, is there really any point in treating Friendly fire and Friendly Fire differently?

I ask this because I really don't think that any of these have broad consensus but I'm almost certain that diacritics and capitalization don't. Most of the arguments in favor of capitalization differentiating titles basically boil down to "because DIFFCAPS says so". Red Slash 23:51, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

I have seen some explicit statements as well as hints, that the broader community is not on par with title minimalism, and holds the never-progressing title battles in disdain. WP:TITLES would benefit from some good kicks in the pants.

DIFFCAPS is a small example. DIFFCAPS, a subset of SMALLDETAILS, has merit, but the guideline errs in not specifying how small is too small. I believe the community, is more on par with the following:

As I argue, including at Talk:Friendly Fire (disambiguation)#Requested move 22 August 2019, many of these titling disputes are a consequence of the bad WP:MALPLACED practice. The biggest problem in many of the argued cases comes from having imprecisely titled DAB pages, meaning DAB pages can be located at what a subset of readers think is a PRIMARYTOPIC. Fix WP:MALPLACED (i.e. repudiate it), and most of the above problems will go away. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 01:59, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

I almost always would oppose using any of those small diff. E.g. for The Wrld Is Yours, we would conventionally need to redirect the version without diacritics there, but now we can't, because we used it for a disambig page but didn't disambiguate this one with the diacritic, so that's not a good situation. I'm not sure I follow Smokey Joe's point, but I think I probably agree; perhaps he'll explain what MALPLACED should say instead, and what we should do with the Friendly Fire case. Dicklyon (talk) 05:33, 13 September 2019 (UTC)

Answering the original question, there exist some examples for each of those categories where the small difference is clearly significant and the two titles should lead to different pages (although there should always be a hatnote on all destination pages that are not disambiguations or set indexes), so deprecation would not benefit the encyclopaedia. This is not to say that every current instance of small differences leading to different pages is correct, merely that some are, so discussion needs to be much more focused.
Broadly, the goal should always be to get as many people to the page they want to read directly where possible and with as few clicks as possible where it isn't. To this end, where there is a primary topic for any given term that term should lead directly to the page that best matches that topic, regardless of whether similar terms do or do not have a primary topic and/or whether they have the same primary topic. For example, compare Male, Mal and Małe - nobody using the latter search terms is looking for the article about the physiological sex, but only a small proportion of those using the first one are looking for anything other than that. Thryduulf (talk) 01:20, 18 September 2019 (UTC)

Those in favor of moving the three digit year articles to AD titles noted the benefits of consistency as well as the precedent set by the 2016 RfC which established the use of AD in one and two digit year articles (whether consensus has changed for one and two digit year articles was not explicitly discussed). Some opposers disagreed with using AD due to its origins in religion, and there is no consensus for its use in this case. Some participants were favorable to disambiguators without overt religious connotations like CE or (year), though neither had much support. Opposition to CE was similar to opposition to AD in that WP:ERA states both AD and CE are equally valid and we should not promote one over the other in article titles. Those against (year) were concerned by its ambiguity as there are alternative calendar systems which the disambiguator (year) would not make clear. There is neither consensus to move three digit year articles nor consensus on what disambiguator should be used if they were moved.

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