AWAY3D vs PAPERVISION

[Rudolph Thomas (TIGME.COM)]

I did a Google search to compare PV3, AWAY and SANDY

 

PAPERVISION3D 473000 RESULTS

PAPERVISION 207000 RESULS

AWAY3D 81700 RESULTS

SANDY3D 8100 RESULTS

"ALTERNATIVA PLATFORM" 4000 RESULTS

"ALTERNATIVA 3D" 4900 RESULTS

 

I know this does not always say much but Papervision is far ahead. I have read somewhere that AWAY3D broke away from PV3D...

 

1. WHY?

2. WHAT DO YOU DO DIFFERENT?

 

This is not a trick question but would help us noobs make choices although already I have already chosen Away3D to a large degree...

 

Whos gonna win? Yeh I know! AWAY3D at least in this group ;-)

 

 

 

Kind regards ..
Rudolph Thomas
in...@tigme.com
www.tigme.com
www.carrara3d.co.za

[Stan D]

There are no winners and losers; you can use both formats on your
website it most people wouldn't know the difference. Away3D adapted
other features - such as native imports of 3ds, obj,kmz, and much
more.

On May 22, 2:17 pm, "Rudolph Thomas \(TIGME.COM\)" <rudo...@tigme.com>
wrote:

> i...@tigme.comwww.tigme.comwww.carrara3d.co.za

[Michael Ryan Bannon]

Away3D makes it really easy to add interactive MovieMaterials.  That's the selling point for me.

[Rudolph Thomas (TIGME.COM)]

Thanks so far for the info... It would be great to build a comparison list of some sorts if it does not already exist...

 

Would be great to see more opinions though...

 

ps. Aparently PV3D will also get OBJ support. Maybe they just copied the libraries from AWAY3D :-)

 

 

Kind regards ..
Rudolph Thomas

in...@tigme.com
www.tigme.com
www.carrara3d.co.za

 

----- Original Message -----

[Makc]

let me broaden your list a bit:
http://makc.coverthesky.com/FlashFX/ffx.php?id=10

[Rudolph Thomas (TIGME.COM)]

Thanks, now I am confused... Go Away...3D ;-)

Kind regards .. Rudolph Thomas in...@tigme.com www.tigme.com

www.carrara3d.co.za --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message -----
From: "Makc" <makc.th...@gmail.com>
To: <away3...@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2008 10:07 PM
Subject: [away3d] Re: AWAY3D vs PAPERVISION

>

[Rob Bateman]

things don't look good here...
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=papervision&word2=away3d

however, this one made me feel better :D:
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=ralph+hauwert&word2=rob+bateman


seriously though, one of the main reason developers use Papervision over Away3d is exposure. More people use papervison because more people have heard of it. Plus i would venture to say that papervision is/was more designer friendly to use, and a lot more designers use flash than developers.

Away3d was started because papervision lacked features we wanted to see in flash. I think part of that is still a driving force (we still have many features that papervision doesn't have), but our goals have shifted to providing a framework that is powerful and easy to use. The main use of 3d engines will shift once flash 10 is commonplace, and become something for people wanting to create more than just coverflow interfaces etc (because that kind of 3d is now native in the flash player). What Away3d and all other engines will end up doing is catering for designer and developers who need to build complex scenes, animated models, shaded scenes etc for content that will most likely be centered around games and demos.

i feel like i'm preaching to the converted here, but if you  want specifics then here are a choice few - Away3d:

was the first flash engine to implement perspective correct materials
was the first flash engine to implement corrective z-sorting
was the first flash engine to implement mouse interaction on 3d objects
was the first flash engine to implement occlusion culling and viewport culling
was the first flash engine to implement normal mapping
was the first flash engine to implement projected textures
was the first flash engine to implement cached surface materials
was the first flash engine to implement fog filtering
was the first flash engine to implement LOD objects


some of these have found there way back to papervision, and some haven't. The important thing to note is that whether or not papervison continues to merge our code (which they're very welcome to do), Away3d consistently delivers more features, more fixes, more support and soon more documentation...

i'll get off my soapbox now ;)


Rob

--
Rob Bateman
Flash Development & Consultancy

rob.b...@gmail.com
www.infiniteturtles.co.uk
www.away3d.com

[Peter Kapelyan]

wow

 

me and ralph are almost neck to neck :P

 

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=ralph+hauwert&word2=peter+kapelyan

 

wanna take it outside ralph?

 

j/k

 

:P

--
___________________

Actionscript 3.0 Flash 3D Graphics Engine

HTTP://AWAY3D.COM

[Rudolph Thomas (TIGME.COM)]

Thanks Pastor Rob.... LOL

 

Much appreciated... Because you and others make time for noobs around here I feel much more home than with PV3D.

 

ps. Can someone please point me to Revelations?, hehe ;-)

 

Kind regards ..
Rudolph Thomas
in...@tigme.com
www.tigme.com
www.carrara3d.co.za

 

----- Original Message -----

[katopz]

huh!, don't tell Rob about this

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=papervision+katopz&word2=away3d+katopz

sorry! it's not me! ;P

2008/5/23 Rudolph Thomas (TIGME.COM) <rud...@tigme.com>:

--
katopz
http://www.sleepydesign.com

[Makc]

On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 3:27 AM, Rob Bateman <rob.b...@gmail.com> wrote:
> however, this one made me feel better :D:
> http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=ralph+hauwert&word2=rob+bateman
>

what about
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=john+grden&word2=rob+bateman
?

I think your fight could be a bit more fair with quote marks:
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=%22ralph+hauwert%22&word2=%22rob+bateman%22

:)

[Makc]

oh and btw:
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=sandy&word2=papervision

On Fri, May 23, 2008 at 3:27 AM, Rob Bateman <rob.b...@gmail.com> wrote:

[katopz]

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=good&word2=bad#

i got 0 result in "good" word ????, nothing good?

2008/5/23 Makc <makc.th...@gmail.com>:

--
katopz
http://www.sleepydesign.com

[Rudolph Thomas (TIGME.COM)]

This one is a big laugh - ROFLAO

http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=away3d&word2=google

AWAY3D vs. GOOGLE

 

We are way bigger than one of the worst online Animals...

 

Kind regards ..
Rudolph Thomas
in...@tigme.com
www.tigme.com
www.carrara3d.co.za

---

P.O. BOX 442  KLEINMOND 7195  SOUTH AFRICA   [P] 028 271 5450   [M] 082 254 3927   [F] 088 028 271 5450

----- Original Message -----

From: Rob Bateman

To: away3...@googlegroups.com

Sent: Friday, May 23, 2008 2:27 AM

[Henry Cooke]

I'm probably coming to this thread a little late, but I thought I'd
just throw in my tuppence worth:

I recently completed my first 3D project, and for most of that
project's lifespan I had wrappers for both Away3D and Papervision and
abstracted a lot of the 3D code so I could switch back and forth
between the two. For quite a while, Papervision was the engine of
choice because it appeared to have better interactivity on objects
(whether that's actually true or not is debatable; it could just be
that I figured it out quicker in PV3D), but eventually we settled on
Away3D because it seemed to have better Collada support, and, more
importantly, the frame rate, rendering quality and depth sorting
(negating those annoying flickering poly issues) were *consistently*
better than PV3D: it just looked better.

That said, I reckon you're likely to get something of a one-sided view
on this list ;)

h.

--
.... . . . . . . . . .
.. h e n r y c o o k e
.... . . . . . . . . .
.. in my ears: Sh*tmat / Haile Selassie Rules O.K.
.. http://prehensile.co.uk

2008/5/23 Rob Bateman <rob.b...@gmail.com>:

[Rudolph Thomas (TIGME.COM)]

Thanks Henry

In the end we all make choices and then stick with it for a period if not
forever. For me at the moment it is because I opened AWAY3D plugged it into
my noob project and it worked. As for PV3D I had to struggle with it...
Maybe AWAY3D has got better noob examples, I don't know.

Kind regards .. Rudolph Thomas in...@tigme.com www.tigme.com
www.carrara3d.co.za --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message -----
From: "Henry Cooke" <aninfinitenu...@gmail.com>
To: <away3...@googlegroups.com>

[Bluebomber357]

Away3D is awesome for noobs. I've been wrestling over which engine to
use for a current project, Away3D or P3D. P3D was a giant hassle to
get it installed. I kept getting incomplete downloads from their svn
for 2.0 version. I also have a much harder time finding robust
examples/tutorials for things like heightmaps, skyboxes, advanced
shaders. The biggest selling point for me though is Away3Ds far
superior forum. I am not a fan of Nabble and P3D's forum never
responds to me :(

Still though, P3D is impressivly fast and does have a huge community,
I still haven't officially decided between Away3D and P3D and its time
for more stress testing. I have to go figure out LOD stuff, it could
be a deal-breaker :D

On May 23, 6:57 am, "Rudolph Thomas \(TIGME.COM\)" <rudo...@tigme.com>
wrote:

> Thanks Henry
>
> In the end we all make choices and then stick with it for a period if not
> forever. For me at the moment it is because I opened AWAY3D plugged it into
> my noob project and it worked. As for PV3D I had to struggle with it...
> Maybe AWAY3D has got better noob examples, I don't know.
>

> Kind regards .. Rudolph Thomas i...@tigme.comwww.tigme.comwww.carrara3d.co.za--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > 2008/5/23 Rob Bateman <rob.bate...@gmail.com>:

> >> things don't look good here...

> >>http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=papervision&wor...

>
> >> however, this one made me feel better :D:

> >>http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=ralph+hauwert&w...

> >>> Kind regards .. Rudolph Thomas i...@tigme.comwww.tigme.com
> >>>www.carrara3d.co.za
> >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Makc" <makc.the.gr...@gmail.com>

> >>>>> i...@tigme.com

> >>>>>www.tigme.com
> >>>>>www.carrara3d.co.za
>
> >> --
> >> Rob Bateman
> >> Flash Development & Consultancy
>

> >> rob.bate...@gmail.com
> >>www.infiniteturtles.co.uk
> >>www.away3d.com

[Lucas Duroj]

It is simpel P3D 2.0 dosent work... it is leaking like hell and will be
like that for a while. P3D has a focus on web and away3d on games(corect
me if I'm worng). resently finish a game project i P3D and i was a hell.
I'm working on my next one now in away, and it just working perfectly
and perform better then P3D 2.0. Thanks for Away!

Bluebomber357 skrev:

[Fabrice]

Our focus is to offer flash developers and designers an advanced
engine 3D, with extended features, ease of use and as robust as
possible.
That you build a 3d widget, a banner, a site or a game, Away offers
you a solid base you can work on.

Fabrice

[Collin Cusce]

I used all three engines... PV3D, Away, and Sandy... but I stopped working in them about nine months ago (no, I didn't knock a chick up, just too busy for pleasure coding).

I did this from the perspective of someone making games. After using all of them at that time, making tons of examples for each, I decided to use Sandy.

Papervision was good for quick and dirty code, but its blatant lack of features meant that it wasn't really great for anything more than making pretty games that ran fast.

Away3d had amazing features, but at the time was nothing more than a collection of hacks to add features. It hadn't quite matured into an independent engine as it still had issues inherited from PV3D, and those that were fixed weren't well documented. Add on top of that getting help was like pulling teeth from a hippo, and it wasn't much of an option, either.

I landed on Sandy as there was pretty good response time from the forums/mailer, the code was clear, it had decent documentation (which got better thanks to Petite), and it was mature as it was an AS2 engine before an AS3 one. Plus... Thomas always took my recommendations into consideration, and nine times out of ten if I suggested something, and it was right, it happened within a week. That, to me, was the clincher. Then Makc showed up and I knew it was time to leave b/c he's a meanie. (you know I love you, bro)

Now, I'm considering a contract for NASA that does real time rendering. I'm deciding if I should go with an executable or if I could actually make it online!!! If the rendering engines are fast enough to handle the detailed models that need to be retextured based on a given time delta, then I might go with that.... problems I'm considering aren't completely fixed in most engines, but I gotta say two big hurdles, z-sorting and level of detail scaling, seem to be available in Alternativa.

That being said, it really all depends on the project. I am absolutely of the mind that ALL the engines have their advantages or disadvantages. There is no one-size-fits-all, and there shouldn't be. AS3 is just too slow!! You need specialization.

So how do you decide what engine to use? If this is a large project, follow these steps:

First, list what you need to do.
Second, list what features will make this easier for you.
Third, list what features each engine has (someone out there has probably already done this on their blog, I'm sure)
Fourth, figure out what features each engine has down the pipeline (!!!!important!!!!!)
Fifth, find out what features you can steal from other people's code for each engine :-)
Sixth, run speed analysis tests on the target system specs.
Last, do cost analysis... time to code, learning curve, licensing (if any)...

If you don't have your answer after all that, pick one from a hat, they all work.

    That said, I reckon you're likely to get something of a one-sided view

--
Any fool can write code that a computer can understand. Good programmers write code that humans can understand.
--Martin Fowler

[Makc]

oh come on here. you dont leave something because of someone else, you
leave because of you. it's not my fault that you havent done anything.

[Fabrice]

I landed on Sandy as there was pretty good response time from the forums/mailer, the code was clear, it had decent documentation (which got better thanks to Petite),

Fast reaction, listening, yes, good or bad this is something we try to do/improve. 

The word "decent", is not the right one. Considering the amount of energy it costs to put together a doc/tutorials/examples the way we have and Sandy have.

The people working at nite while most are sleeping of watching a DVD, have put an enormous amount of energy in this.

The right word for the work done is simply: Fantastic. Both API's are offering a doc that nine out of ten softwares you pay big bucks for don't even have.

If we were at a conference right now, I would say: please give them a warm applause!

Now, I'm considering a contract for NASA that does real time rendering. I'm deciding if I should go with an executable or if I could actually make it online!!! If the rendering engines are fast enough to handle the detailed models that need to be retextured based on a given time delta, then I might go with that.... problems I'm considering aren't completely fixed in most engines, but I gotta say two big hurdles, z-sorting and level of detail scaling, seem to be available in Alternativa.

I wonder if NASA would like a "powered by Alternativa",  logo + url required by the licence once on their site...

So how do you decide what engine to use? If this is a large project, follow these steps:

Choose an engine based on your project requirements is the best thing to do.

Fifth, find out what features you can steal from other people's code for each engine :-)

What about using the fantastic doc and learn from the examples you find online?

Copypasting is bad for the human brain :)

Fabrice

[Collin Cusce]

.................that was the joke, idiot.

[Collin Cusce]

Well, I hate to break it to you Fabrice, but during the time period I was talking about, Away3d had crap for documentation or examples :-)

I had no idea what you've got now as I just glanced at updated examples. That's awesome that you guys pulled it all together like that! You really do deserve an applause :-)

Thanks for the info regarding Alternativa, I was unaware of that.

As for copy and pasting... don't steal something you do not understand... but for christ's sake do not reinvent the wheel. If someone has something out there, it'd be crazy not to use it.

[Makc]

Whatever, mate. What matters is that I was serious.

[Peter Kapelyan]

Away3d wins on this forum.

No more messages for this post.

Thanks!

-Peter