Choices
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Badger
Mar 29, 2011, 9:49:42 PM3/29/11
to Awakening in Light
The Creation ( in the Path) tells us that each must be free to choose,
but this can be easily interpreted as " I can change my mind any time
I like" this is in fact not truth.
We are free to choose and make choices all the time, we are free to
choose at each of our rights of passage, indeed at the naming we are
asked three times if we are present of our own will.
At each rite of passage we then take an oath affirming that we have
chosen. This is not sometihng to be lightly abandoned since we are
also enjoined to speak no untruth, and surely the breaking of an oath
is that at the very least.
Another way of looking at the Oath is that it is, at each stage of our
education and affirmation that we have chosen to take on the
responsibilities of that position.
Other choices we make are less onerous and may in fact change from
time to time, but a fundamental of coven work is that we must never
assume that others can read our minds, if we are to be free to choose,
and I beleive we must be, we are also obliged to make our fellows
aware of those choices at the time we make then.
Walk in the Light
Badger
but this can be easily interpreted as " I can change my mind any time
I like" this is in fact not truth.
We are free to choose and make choices all the time, we are free to
choose at each of our rights of passage, indeed at the naming we are
asked three times if we are present of our own will.
At each rite of passage we then take an oath affirming that we have
chosen. This is not sometihng to be lightly abandoned since we are
also enjoined to speak no untruth, and surely the breaking of an oath
is that at the very least.
Another way of looking at the Oath is that it is, at each stage of our
education and affirmation that we have chosen to take on the
responsibilities of that position.
Other choices we make are less onerous and may in fact change from
time to time, but a fundamental of coven work is that we must never
assume that others can read our minds, if we are to be free to choose,
and I beleive we must be, we are also obliged to make our fellows
aware of those choices at the time we make then.
Walk in the Light
Badger
White Sophia
Mar 30, 2011, 1:14:25 AM3/30/11
to GoogleGroups-Awakening
Here is an interesting question. Our oath is to coven and the craft: but what is the coven? Is it the people, or the tools, or the group? Who or what are you promising to uphold your obligations to?
Further, if one's oath is to uphold one's obligations to the coven and to the craft, is there a prescribed manner in which we must do so? Who determines how we should uphold our obligations?
Blessings all,
White Sophia
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 18:49:42 -0700
> Subject: Choices
> From: sword...@hotmail.com
> To: awakenin...@googlegroups.com
Further, if one's oath is to uphold one's obligations to the coven and to the craft, is there a prescribed manner in which we must do so? Who determines how we should uphold our obligations?
Blessings all,
White Sophia
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 18:49:42 -0700
> Subject: Choices
> From: sword...@hotmail.com
> To: awakenin...@googlegroups.com
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Badger
Mar 30, 2011, 2:03:55 AM3/30/11
to Awakening in Light
Coven is the group of people, bound together in mutiual love and trust
and by oath. This is what each of them chose.
I times past to leave a coven was unthinkable, and, unless a covenor
seeks to leave for a time and all accept that, then they are betraying
that trust.
Walk in the Light
Badger
> > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/awakeninginlight?hl=en.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
and by oath. This is what each of them chose.
I times past to leave a coven was unthinkable, and, unless a covenor
seeks to leave for a time and all accept that, then they are betraying
that trust.
Walk in the Light
Badger
On Mar 30, 4:14 pm, White Sophia <white-sop...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Here is an interesting question. Our oath is to coven and the craft: but what is the coven? Is it the people, or the tools, or the group? Who or what are you promising to uphold your obligations to?
>
> Further, if one's oath is to uphold one's obligations to the coven and to the craft, is there a prescribed manner in which we must do so? Who determines how we should uphold our obligations?
>
> Blessings all,
> White Sophia
>
>
>
> > Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 18:49:42 -0700
> > Subject: Choices
> > From: swordcut...@hotmail.com
> Here is an interesting question. Our oath is to coven and the craft: but what is the coven? Is it the people, or the tools, or the group? Who or what are you promising to uphold your obligations to?
>
> Further, if one's oath is to uphold one's obligations to the coven and to the craft, is there a prescribed manner in which we must do so? Who determines how we should uphold our obligations?
>
> Blessings all,
> White Sophia
>
>
>
> > Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 18:49:42 -0700
> > Subject: Choices
>
> - Show quoted text -
White Sophia
Mar 30, 2011, 9:30:48 PM3/30/11
to GoogleGroups-Awakening
I doubt any would make such a choice lightly! It's certainly not something we do 'just for fun', and we build very strong bonds with our fellow covenors, more than just friendships, that's for sure.
What about when a situation becomes untenable? Perhaps through grievance, loss of capacity in some way, obligations to family, or loss of trust?
Ideally if a situation is untenable, the covenor would discuss it with their fellow covenors. This reinforces what you said about love and trust between the covenors.
But perhaps there are times when even in coven this may not be possible, I don't know - I guess it all depends on the situation. Some people are very good at speaking exactly what's on their mind, and others have difficulty addressing things directly. Sometimes coven itself can be a minefield in terms of how the things you want to say are going to affect those present.
Coven itself can change, and may not be the same coven in which a person first took their oaths - the group dynamic, or with newcomers, or changes in the practice. Hopefully if this occurs it is for the better, not worse, but I can see that sometimes it may be for the worse.
If someone can't come to the circle in perfect love and perfect trust - if they have fear in their heart, then perhaps they are right to step back from coven - indeed perhaps they feel that is the best way to fulfill their obligations.
Blessings
White Sophia
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 23:03:55 -0700
> Subject: Re: Choices
> From: sword...@hotmail.com
> To: awakenin...@googlegroups.com
>
What about when a situation becomes untenable? Perhaps through grievance, loss of capacity in some way, obligations to family, or loss of trust?
Ideally if a situation is untenable, the covenor would discuss it with their fellow covenors. This reinforces what you said about love and trust between the covenors.
But perhaps there are times when even in coven this may not be possible, I don't know - I guess it all depends on the situation. Some people are very good at speaking exactly what's on their mind, and others have difficulty addressing things directly. Sometimes coven itself can be a minefield in terms of how the things you want to say are going to affect those present.
Coven itself can change, and may not be the same coven in which a person first took their oaths - the group dynamic, or with newcomers, or changes in the practice. Hopefully if this occurs it is for the better, not worse, but I can see that sometimes it may be for the worse.
If someone can't come to the circle in perfect love and perfect trust - if they have fear in their heart, then perhaps they are right to step back from coven - indeed perhaps they feel that is the best way to fulfill their obligations.
Blessings
White Sophia
> Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 23:03:55 -0700
> Subject: Re: Choices
> From: sword...@hotmail.com
> To: awakenin...@googlegroups.com
>
Badger
Mar 31, 2011, 4:50:03 AM3/31/11
to Awakening in Light
It is also true that often the stated reason is not the real reason
and expecially so when one perosn is determined to destroy that trust.
When there is a real grievance there are processes to deal with them,
and has been said many times we must always be wary of judging, esp
when we do not have the facts. It is too easy to use excuses and too
easy to let gossip be the sole basis. Such a decision is foolish in
the extreme. To then justify such a choice by saying "each must be
free to choose" is to ignore that we are all free to choose and then
having chosen we must also abide by our word.
Walk in the Light
Badger
> > > > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/awakeninginlight?hl=en.-Hide quoted text -
and expecially so when one perosn is determined to destroy that trust.
When there is a real grievance there are processes to deal with them,
and has been said many times we must always be wary of judging, esp
when we do not have the facts. It is too easy to use excuses and too
easy to let gossip be the sole basis. Such a decision is foolish in
the extreme. To then justify such a choice by saying "each must be
free to choose" is to ignore that we are all free to choose and then
having chosen we must also abide by our word.
Walk in the Light
Badger
On Mar 31, 12:30 pm, White Sophia <white-sop...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> I doubt any would make such a choice lightly! It's certainly not something we do 'just for fun', and we build very strong bonds with our fellow covenors, more than just friendships, that's for sure.
>
> What about when a situation becomes untenable? Perhaps through grievance, loss of capacity in some way, obligations to family, or loss of trust?
>
> Ideally if a situation is untenable, the covenor would discuss it with their fellow covenors. This reinforces what you said about love and trust between the covenors.
>
> But perhaps there are times when even in coven this may not be possible, I don't know - I guess it all depends on the situation. Some people are very good at speaking exactly what's on their mind, and others have difficulty addressing things directly. Sometimes coven itself can be a minefield in terms of how the things you want to say are going to affect those present.
>
> Coven itself can change, and may not be the same coven in which a person first took their oaths - the group dynamic, or with newcomers, or changes in the practice. Hopefully if this occurs it is for the better, not worse, but I can see that sometimes it may be for the worse.
>
> If someone can't come to the circle in perfect love and perfect trust - if they have fear in their heart, then perhaps they are right to step back from coven - indeed perhaps they feel that is the best way to fulfill their obligations.
>
> Blessings
> White Sophia
>
>
>
> > Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 23:03:55 -0700
> > Subject: Re: Choices
> > From: swordcut...@hotmail.com
> I doubt any would make such a choice lightly! It's certainly not something we do 'just for fun', and we build very strong bonds with our fellow covenors, more than just friendships, that's for sure.
>
> What about when a situation becomes untenable? Perhaps through grievance, loss of capacity in some way, obligations to family, or loss of trust?
>
> Ideally if a situation is untenable, the covenor would discuss it with their fellow covenors. This reinforces what you said about love and trust between the covenors.
>
> But perhaps there are times when even in coven this may not be possible, I don't know - I guess it all depends on the situation. Some people are very good at speaking exactly what's on their mind, and others have difficulty addressing things directly. Sometimes coven itself can be a minefield in terms of how the things you want to say are going to affect those present.
>
> Coven itself can change, and may not be the same coven in which a person first took their oaths - the group dynamic, or with newcomers, or changes in the practice. Hopefully if this occurs it is for the better, not worse, but I can see that sometimes it may be for the worse.
>
> If someone can't come to the circle in perfect love and perfect trust - if they have fear in their heart, then perhaps they are right to step back from coven - indeed perhaps they feel that is the best way to fulfill their obligations.
>
> Blessings
> White Sophia
>
>
>
> > Date: Tue, 29 Mar 2011 23:03:55 -0700
> > Subject: Re: Choices
shannon hennessy
Mar 31, 2011, 7:30:43 AM3/31/11
to awakenin...@googlegroups.com
i believe that what you both are saying are very true. Sophia, i feel
your message coming across as poitive and caring, full of emotion and
understanding.
Badger, i felt what you wrote about having free choice and following
though with your promises are also true amd positive values, yet it
comes aross abit judgemental towards those who would choose to leave.
people learn through experience, some people settle, some dont realise
what they got into or some absolutely love participating but feel
undersimulated and decide its time for a change. If we stay
doing/seeing the same things everyday, how would we evolve, mentally,
physically, spiritually or emotionally? Everything happens for a
reason, one persons path is not nessessarily someone elses.
your message coming across as poitive and caring, full of emotion and
understanding.
Badger, i felt what you wrote about having free choice and following
though with your promises are also true amd positive values, yet it
comes aross abit judgemental towards those who would choose to leave.
people learn through experience, some people settle, some dont realise
what they got into or some absolutely love participating but feel
undersimulated and decide its time for a change. If we stay
doing/seeing the same things everyday, how would we evolve, mentally,
physically, spiritually or emotionally? Everything happens for a
reason, one persons path is not nessessarily someone elses.
Nameste <3
--
Cheers, and thanks for your time.
Shannon Hennessy
Badger
Mar 31, 2011, 3:29:23 PM3/31/11
to Awakening in Light
Not judgmental, but in the expoectation of honesty. It is extrememely
important that before making a choice one must find all the facts.
This is hte responsibility of the person who is to make the choice but
in the Path at least we go to extraordinary lengths to ensore that
they know in advance what is expected.
Some do in time choose to leave, and if they have spoken to their
coven they will inevitably leave on good terms, those that break that
trust and use excuses are those who do not have truly good cause, but
choose inbstead toi excuse themselves claiming that eaxh must be free
to choose. In truth they are free to choose, and having chosen must
abide by that choice
Walk in the Light
Badger
important that before making a choice one must find all the facts.
This is hte responsibility of the person who is to make the choice but
in the Path at least we go to extraordinary lengths to ensore that
they know in advance what is expected.
Some do in time choose to leave, and if they have spoken to their
coven they will inevitably leave on good terms, those that break that
trust and use excuses are those who do not have truly good cause, but
choose inbstead toi excuse themselves claiming that eaxh must be free
to choose. In truth they are free to choose, and having chosen must
abide by that choice
Walk in the Light
Badger
On Mar 31, 10:30 pm, shannon hennessy <shaza.skep...@gmail.com> wrote:
> i believe that what you both are saying are very true. Sophia, i feel
> your message coming across as poitive and caring, full of emotion and
> understanding.
> Badger, i felt what you wrote about having free choice and following
> though with your promises are also true amd positive values, yet it
> comes aross abit judgemental towards those who would choose to leave.
> people learn through experience, some people settle, some dont realise
> what they got into or some absolutely love participating but feel
> undersimulated and decide its time for a change. If we stay
> doing/seeing the same things everyday, how would we evolve, mentally,
> physically, spiritually or emotionally? Everything happens for a
> reason, one persons path is not nessessarily someone elses.
>
> Nameste <3
>
> i believe that what you both are saying are very true. Sophia, i feel
> your message coming across as poitive and caring, full of emotion and
> understanding.
> Badger, i felt what you wrote about having free choice and following
> though with your promises are also true amd positive values, yet it
> comes aross abit judgemental towards those who would choose to leave.
> people learn through experience, some people settle, some dont realise
> what they got into or some absolutely love participating but feel
> undersimulated and decide its time for a change. If we stay
> doing/seeing the same things everyday, how would we evolve, mentally,
> physically, spiritually or emotionally? Everything happens for a
> reason, one persons path is not nessessarily someone elses.
>
> Nameste <3
>
> > For more options, visit this group at
> >http://groups.google.com/group/awakeninginlight?hl=en.
>
> --
> Cheers, and thanks for your time.
>
> Shannon Hennessy- Hide quoted text -
> >http://groups.google.com/group/awakeninginlight?hl=en.
>
> --
> Cheers, and thanks for your time.
>
Raven Crone
Mar 31, 2011, 5:34:09 PM3/31/11
to AIL
A few additional points might help.
We are free to choose but we must always be aware that choices have consequences. In the Path we consider that the choice to take a degree is a permanent choice, but note this is not the case for a seeker, only for the degrees that follow. And, finally, when a choice effects others we have an obligation to consult with all those involved before acting, and our choice must be based on facts not on rumour or gossip as has happened in the past in some places.
The choice to leave a coven is NOT one that is made by an individual, it involves the whole coven.
Walk in the Light
Lady Raven
> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:29:23 -0700
> Subject: Re: Choices
> From: sword...@hotmail.com
> To: awakenin...@googlegroups.com
We are free to choose but we must always be aware that choices have consequences. In the Path we consider that the choice to take a degree is a permanent choice, but note this is not the case for a seeker, only for the degrees that follow. And, finally, when a choice effects others we have an obligation to consult with all those involved before acting, and our choice must be based on facts not on rumour or gossip as has happened in the past in some places.
The choice to leave a coven is NOT one that is made by an individual, it involves the whole coven.
Walk in the Light
Lady Raven
> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 12:29:23 -0700
> Subject: Re: Choices
> From: sword...@hotmail.com
> To: awakenin...@googlegroups.com
shannon hennessy
Apr 2, 2011, 2:49:03 AM4/2/11
to awakenin...@googlegroups.com
I agree, yes it is upto the coven to have a say in the case of a
member leaving, but it the individual needs to make the final decision
healthily. People must make mistakes in life to learn who they are in
themselves. Its the empathy, wisdom, honesty, faith, strength and
courage of the spirit that will guide someone to a much needed
change, and (hopefully) a positive realization of self.
member leaving, but it the individual needs to make the final decision
healthily. People must make mistakes in life to learn who they are in
themselves. Its the empathy, wisdom, honesty, faith, strength and
courage of the spirit that will guide someone to a much needed
change, and (hopefully) a positive realization of self.
Life is a journey you have to experience alone...but in saying that,
everything/one that has/is been part of your existance, has rubbed off
on you in some way.
We can teach, listen, help, give advice, instruct, instill, and set
examples, but we'll always be struggling to evolve if were not
open-minded or aware that all things in life are constantly in a state
of change.
Show positive support and each day, grow to be more understanding,
have hope in the individual and trust that they have chosen whichever
path because they still need to learn certain lessons. Lastly forgive
and evolve... in the future they may come back, with pure thoughts and
true balance, and full of faith.
Each to their own though.
Blessed Be <3
Badger
Apr 2, 2011, 7:29:16 PM4/2/11
to Awakening in Light
In my experience nobody who has asked to be released and has gone aobu
it the right way has ever been refused. This thread was actually
about those who misuse the quote from teh Creation to go about this
the wrong way.
I disagree that Life is a journey that you undertake alone. None of
us are truly alone, and everything we do effects those around us.
Walk in the Light
Badger
it the right way has ever been refused. This thread was actually
about those who misuse the quote from teh Creation to go about this
the wrong way.
I disagree that Life is a journey that you undertake alone. None of
us are truly alone, and everything we do effects those around us.
Walk in the Light
Badger
Briseadh na Faire
Apr 23, 2011, 10:30:10 AM4/23/11
to awakenin...@googlegroups.com
I have found that when someone gives a host of reasons for something, the real reason is usually the third or fourth on the list, the first two or three being contrived "acceptable" reasons.
Peace and Blessings,
Briseadh na Faire
> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 01:50:03 -0700
> Subject: Re: Choices
> From: sword...@hotmail.com
> To: awakenin...@googlegroups.com
Peace and Blessings,
Briseadh na Faire
> Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 01:50:03 -0700
> Subject: Re: Choices
> From: sword...@hotmail.com
> To: awakenin...@googlegroups.com
Badger
Apr 24, 2011, 3:58:20 AM4/24/11
to Awakening in Light
If the real reason is mentioned at all.
Walk in the Light
Badger
> > > > > > For more options, visit this group athttp://groups.google.com/group/awakeninginlight?hl=en.-Hidequoted text -
Walk in the Light
Badger
On Apr 24, 12:30 am, Briseadh na Faire <iol...@live.com> wrote:
> I have found that when someone gives a host of reasons for something, the real reason is usually the third or fourth on the list, the first two or three being contrived "acceptable" reasons.
>
> Peace and Blessings,
>
> Briseadh na Faire
>
>
>
> > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 01:50:03 -0700
> > Subject: Re: Choices
> > From: swordcut...@hotmail.com
> I have found that when someone gives a host of reasons for something, the real reason is usually the third or fourth on the list, the first two or three being contrived "acceptable" reasons.
>
> Peace and Blessings,
>
> Briseadh na Faire
>
>
>
> > Date: Thu, 31 Mar 2011 01:50:03 -0700
> > Subject: Re: Choices
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