Indian Neck Crack
Frederic Laureano
I bought a couple of India rooster necks. I'm from the era of fly tying where genetic capes and saddles is all I know. I decided to purchase a few of these necks because they were cheap and graded as "prime".
I picked them up in all the oddball colors that I don't have genetic capes in. I'm actually pleased with them. Sure they take two feathers for a nice hackle neck but they do work and with floatant they have done fine for me this year.
That used to be all we had for dry flies, though. They usually can tie 10's, 12's and 14's OK, but it's hard to get anything much smaller. That is also why many classic dry fly patterns call for 2 hackles, a la the Adams. It takes 2 feathers to get a nice full look.
The stripped hackle stems also make good quill bodies. Use some of the bigger feathers for that. I also still like to use barbs from Chinese/Indian capes for dry fly tails, as the genetic hackles are generally too short for my liking.
I have a handful of nice natural Indian capes I purchased from a British company: Light and Dark Red Game, Cree, Honey, Coch-y-bondhu and Greenwells. I don't like to overwrap the collars on my dry flies so one Indian feather usually suffices. The stems are sometimes difficult to work with- a light hand and patience are required. But I do like the results.
I too like them for streamer wings, popper tails, and I use them for the wings on dries that call for hackle tips. Better than wasting a quality hackle for just the tips. Can't beat the price you find them in some shops $4 or so...
Yes I like then for streamers and dry fly wings, didn't think about the quill though. I often like the colors that India necks come in more than the colors that genetic stuff comes in. Just takes a little mor time to use. It is interesting about the color combo though, it sounds nice. Might have to try it.
Chinese capes are usually larger than India capes, so they work well for larger streamers & hackle on poppers & bass bugs. I like to keep some Cree or variant India necks in my collection, as they work great on Bonefish style flies, or Bendbacks. I don't fish for Bonefish, but there are patterns that also make a great crayfish for Smallmouths, and Bendbacks work well for many species. I like the looks of Cree or variant as a cheek over bucktail or other hair & of course the price of India capes is attractive for this type of tying where there's a good chance of losing quite a few flies.
When I started tying (and for many years after,) Indian and Chinese necks were all we could find. I didn't discover genetic hackles until about 1975. Small growers of quality hackle had been around since the 1940s, but few were found out west. Metz hackles only became available in 1972, buy by then, I was tying no hackle patterns for floating flies. Once I started working in fly shops, I had access to these fine genetic necks and saddles. The Metz saddles from the early 1970s to the mid 1990s were some of the best "bugger" hackle ever grown. They have since been bread "down" into dry fly saddles, a great loss in my view.
I gradually built up a large inventory of both necks and saddles from Metz, Hoffman (now Whiting,) and a few others, starting in 1980. By 1995, I had given away all my Indian and Chinese necks. Now the only uses I find for these hackles is for streamer wings. There are good hackles from the Chinese necks for the salt water patterns and bass patterns I have started tying in the last year. I haven't started buying any full necks, yet, but I will have to soon as I begin to run out of the big neck hackles on all my old Metz, Spencer, and Hoffman necks.
Last week I was in one of my favorite fly shops, and was looking at Whiting HEN necks that had good quality hackle suitable for tying dry flies. These necks had hackle that was longer than any Indian neck with short web free barbs. I would have loved to have found necks like that when I started tying.
Some years ago I was asked about the Whiting's saddles I bought being very expensive. I pointed out that I buy them for specific patterns. As I was tying 500 + a month per size of those flies, they work out cheaper per fly than Indian and Chinese hackle. Unlike most, in those days, I could pick a saddle clean in under a year of using it. I know for many that one saddle is more than a lifetimes supply of that hackle.
I have a large bin full and add to it all the time, been using them since the late sixties. cross bred barn yard banty is a india type neck. India necks are basically a bantom chicken. I grow my own bantys too. great for streamers, poppers, nymphs, some drys and even steel head flies.
When I started tying I used Chinese and Indian capes and still get them when I get the chance but only when I can pick through a bin of them so I can pick out the ones that suit my needs. I use them for Streamer wings but mostly for Irish wets and Salmon flies.
If you were one of the lucky ones, you got to be one of the first to look through them. They came in barrels and the thrill of digging through all those capes looking for just the right one, well you get the idea!
These small rooster necks offer a great value to the fly tyer. For dry flies, they usually have enough small feathers to tie down to #14's, but be ready to use two hackles to fill out the collar and the stems are a bit stiff.
The Indian Hen Necks shine when used for nymphs and soft hackle wet flies. The fibers are soft and webby. You won't find hen feathers that are softer. My favorite are the Speckled Hen Backs. The delicate modeling gives you fly that buggy look.
A few years ago I met A. K. Best at a fly fishing show. He was tying parachute patterns and using Whiting hen capes for the hackle. He said that the fibers were stiff enough and gave the fly a bit of a bounce when it hit the water.
Thank you for posting Mr. Bourne's Indian Neck Hall. Around 1908 Ernest Flagg added a 100' long ballroom/music room to the house that held what was one of the largest privately owned pipe organs in the world. I have a photograph of the room, but there is no way to attach it to this comment.
I understand Bourne also owned the ground floor apartment in the Dakota when it was first built.
i was at wedding reception at indian neck hall 4 yrs ago. even in its slightly faded, and worn state the mansion and the layout of the various rooms are spectacular. in every room the detail work, is almost beyond description, to the point of the above comment the ballroom mentioned above easily held 300 people for a sit down meal.
Bourne also built a large castle/house in the thousand islands. i do not have the link but it too was beautifully built and detailed
Flagg (and his understudy, Frank Whiting - Pratt Institute class of 1893, in particular) was also a favorite with some members of the Clark family who co-owned the Singer Sewing Machine Co.; although they never built anything as ostentatious as Indian Hall or the Dark Island structure.
(Although F. Ambrose Clark did not use Flagg for any of his significant number of estates.)
Whiting would design several Clark funded structures in Cooperstown (NY) ranging from what is the Farmer's Museum (today) to the Fenimore Art Museum to the Baseball Hall of Fame; while Flagg himself designed the one-time YMCA in the Village now serving as The Village Offices and Cooperstown Art Association. All of which stand today.
I am looking for a furnuce neck hackle...i got sent an old one that was old and kinda a crappy neck ( as far as not good quality)...i think it was an indian rooster neck by the pics. This neck i have, isnt what most anyone would say is a dry fly neck. was webby but NOT a hen neck...any ideas on where to find anything like that?
Indian Cock Necks are indeed dry fly necks but by todays standards are pretty poor quality dry fly hackle when compared to Whiting, Keough, Collins, Howards or other hackle that is grown in North America.
I agree with Jamie, too, that only the very best Indian necks are actually dryfly quality. They are best used for streamer wings and bass flies. I also use them for hackle tip wings, but they are only middlin quality for that.
Indian necks have gone down in quality for 2 major reasons. The exporters give some of the overseas tying companies first dibs, this along takes away many of the best capes. The 2nd reason is that does birds have been breed for a different purpose then they were pre 1970's. Because of this feathers just happened to loose something. If you talk to the old timers who got them right from the source they can almost tell you a date when it started to go down hill and this was before much of the overseas tying. Furnace was at one time a very easy color to get and for a good furnace it is still the only way to go. Whiting makes great hackle but because of the lack of web there is almost no black other then the stem. Using a cape like this on a fly will give you a very ugly fly.
My local fly shop stoped carrying these necks, and am almost in some major need...any links that ya know of? or shoot me a message if ya got one ya looking to get rid of...like i said...poor quallity,webby type is what i am lookin fer...thanks again -jason
You might want to watch ebay. I find there is always a supply of Indian capes there. Just watch out alot of sellers use stock photos, I am sure if you e-mail one of them with a request for a cape like you want they will turn one up for you.
Both myself and ashbourn have links to our respective shops in our signatures plus there is J Stockards and tons of other shops around as well. If you send the shop you choose to deal with a good description of what you are using them for and what qualities you are looking for in the neck then they should be able to pick out a neck to suit you.
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