"Nested" auto-playlists question

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Trevor Peck

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Sep 28, 2017, 9:46:00 AM9/28/17
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Here's my "problem":

 Any:
    Playlist = list 1 (picks from intermediateList by rating)
    Playlist = list 2 (also picks from intermediateList by rating)
    etc.

 Results only include the first list. Meaning, if I change the order to:

 Any:
    Playlist = list 2
    Playlist = list 1

 Then the result is different.

 This does not seem to happen unless the lists in question all reference the same intermediate list. 

For example:

 Any:
    Playlist = list 1
    Playlist = list 2
    Playlist = listFromOtherSource
    Artist = Davinci's Notebook

 Then the contents of list 1, listFromOtherSource, and all songs by Davinci's Notebook will show, but songs from list 2 do not.

 Any ideas about:

1. why?


 and maybe, hopefully even:

2. Any way I can get around it? 

I would like to nest playlists even more deeply for various reasons, though most of what I want to accomplish can be done by repeating playlist rules rather than referencing playlists, I don't know of a way to do a "weighted randomization" without referencing limited result sets.



Here's some background info that probably isn't helpful:

 I use playlists like this:

 A list of songs of a certain type (like "instrumental"), determined by "Tags" which are just part of the comments field.

Then I'll make a few lists that select certain songs from the first list, still determined by tags, e.g. "Rating=5", and I'll set a limit of, say 50 songs, sorted by last played.

Then the next list might be determined by "Rating=4" and have a limit of 25 songs.

Following this down to lower ratings I hear songs I enjoy most more often than songs I enjoy less.

 But this leaves me with songs at each rating level playing in a certain order based on when I listened last, and the order becomes memorable eventually.

 To avoid that, I would make another list that selects from the first list, with a smaller limit, selected randomly, then pick from that list by last played.

 But that's when I run into the above mentioned problem.

 - Trevor.

Simon Weber

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Sep 28, 2017, 2:10:44 PM9/28/17
to Autoplaylists for Google Music
That's a pretty neat application of limits! I might add it to https://github.com/simon-weber/Autoplaylists-for-Google-Music/wiki/Tips-and-Tricks.

That result is pretty odd though. My best guess is that it has to do with cycle detection (because of what you mentioned with them both referencing the same list), but it also may be a bug in the underlying database library I'm using (since this looks similar to #109).

Can you try pulling up your logs, clearing them, testing the affected playlist, and then sending the result my way? I should be able to tell if it's an issue with cycle detection from that.

Otherwise, I don't have any good workaround ideas off the top of my head. I'll work on reproducing it and get back to you.

Trevor Peck

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Sep 28, 2017, 4:03:57 PM9/28/17
to Autoplaylists for Google Music
Do you ever run into an application where you're stunned by a particular default choice? Surprised that even one person would want it to work that way, let alone have it be the default, only to find that the way you assumed would, of course, be the default is not even an option?!?

 That's how I feel about weighted playlists. It seems insane to me that there are any music playing apps that don't have this as the default setting, and yet, so far as I can tell there aren't even any that offer it at all. This probably sounds bitter, and it's not meant that way, least of all here where Autoplaylists allows me to build my own solution... but man, it does make me feel like an odd duck!

 So yeah, adding it as one of the tips and tricks would be awesome. Although, I noticed when I got your reply that I may have stated something a little bit wrong. I think I might need to use a list that selects on last-played first, selecting from that by random with a limit, and then selecting from that for the weighted lists. Because on some systems the random playlist might select random songs once, then never change. Selecting by last-played first makes it continue to change as that field updates. I suspect Autoplaylist would update the random selection each time it syncs, no?

 I kept writing things here, and while I wrote them I would think of things to try, and try them. So for about an hour I kept trying things that didn't work.

 Then:

 I found the problem. One of the lines in the "base" list was, "playlist != xmas filter". When I removed this the playlist works as intended. I'm still not sure why it worked that way, but it did. It doesn't matter if the line is in a referenced list or in the list itself, if it's there, it doesn't like it. I seem to remember some discussion about excluding playlists, so this is probably a well-known issue. Easy to work around, sorry for the disturbance, nothing to see here...

Thanks,
 - Trevor.




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Simon Weber

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Sep 30, 2017, 5:26:49 PM9/30/17
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Haha, I feel you. I suspect it might be a user education thing (even among power users): people might not know they want it until they're told about it.

Anyway, while I'm not sure if I'll find the time to add weighted playlist support in the near future, #125 is the issue to keep an eye on. In the mean time, I'm glad you found a workaround!

Also, the issues with excluding playlists should be fixed now, so I opened #168 to track your original problem.

Trevor Peck

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Oct 1, 2017, 10:28:19 AM10/1/17
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Don't mistake my complaining as a feature request! Autoplaylist is not the problem, it's the *solution*!

 I just wonder why Pandora and spotify and suchlike don't do it automatically, seems like it would be both reasonably easy to implement and a serious hook for subscribers. They might not even know it's happening, but they would like the service. Probably there is a reason it won't / doesn't work or isn't effective in keeping subscribers, but I can't think what it might be.

 But, Autoplaylists has this functionality already, ever since we've been able to reference other playlists. The 1000 song limit (and that's a Google restriction) does make it tough, but it doesn't kill it.

 Most importantly, I hear you saying that you would have expected my lists to work as intended even with the exclusion? I assumed that the implemented exclusion fix was something I just hadn't figured out yet.

 I changed everything to positive match, "does not include", instead of exclusion, and it works. The trouble is only that when I want to lift the restriction temporarily (holiday music has its place!), I have to do it in each of maybe a dozen or two lists, instead of just in the referenced exclusion list. So it would be cool if it worked as I expected it to. If we could get around the 1000 song limit, it would be trivial to whitelist rather than exclude... and I think I can get around it with multiple lists... but after 2000 it could get pretty complicated. I might work on it if I get a chance.

 - Trevor.
 




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Simon Weber

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Oct 3, 2017, 6:04:47 PM10/3/17
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Don't mistake my complaining as a feature request! 
The 1000 song limit (and that's a Google restriction) does make it tough, but it doesn't kill it.

Haha, yup, no worries. For what it's worth, these kinds of setups should eventually get smoother through #165.


Most importantly, I hear you saying that you would have expected my lists to work as intended even with the exclusion?

Yup! There's definitely something weird going on in Autoplaylists, either in my code or my database library. Narrowing down the problem to exclusion is super helpful. Let me know if you find out anything else!
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Trevor Peck

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Oct 5, 2017, 8:22:35 AM10/5/17
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> Haha, yup, no worries. For what it's worth, these kinds of setups should eventually get smoother through #165.

 I'm looking forward to that - will probably allow me to make (and keep up with) the playlists I want in a tenth the time.



> Let me know if you find out anything else!

 I think I might have something helpful, I guess you get to decide the value...

My layman's understanding is that what I describe below *is* due to issue #109, which is the Lovefield bug #182.

I don't see how that explains the original issue, but since it does have to do with the order of an "any" condition, it sure does seem likely to be related.


*****

Any:
Comment contains (case ignored) = TAG=OnlyThinkingWork
Comment contains (case ignored) = TAG=ThinkingWork

Sort by:
Last Played, ascending

The result is:

 the set which contains "TAG=OnlyThinkingWork", in order by last played, ascending
 the set which contains "TAG=ThinkingWork", in order by last played, ascending

and if I switch the order of the criteria, the order of the two groups switches.

Current work-around: All: Comment contains "ThinkingWork"

 I can see how an edge case might sneak in, with thinkingwork in a comment for some other reason, but I doubt it ever would. I could change the tag to ThinkingWorkOnly, but that would break my exclusion: "Comment does not include "TAG=Only" in many other lists.



Another example, with more "any" criteria:

Any
Comment contains (case ignored) = Approved=All
playlist = Z - Approved=All  (Note: This is a static list, but I don't think that matters)


So this one, sorted by last played, comes up:

the set which contains "approved=all" and "Lullaby", sorted by last played
the set which contains "approved=all" and "OnlyLullaby", sorted by last played
the set which contains "playlist=Z - Approved=All" and "Lullaby", sorted by last played
and finally, the set which contains "playlist=Z - Approved=All" and "OnlyLullaby", sorted by last played

 I had to change some tags to ensure at least one in every set, but when I did, the results were what you see above, and changing the order of the arguments changes the order of the results.

Current work-around: 
All:Comment contains "Lullaby", 
tag every song in the playlist "Z - Approved=All" and remove that criterion.

 I'll be careful with this one, as this one could be a problem. I could easily see me typing "This is not a lullaby!" in the comment field, and the resulting song playing could wake up the baby when the goal is, in fact, the opposite of that. ;-)


*****

 Just one final thought: I think I only pay you like $2 a month... I think that's not enough to have to deal with me this much... ;-)

 - Trevor.


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Simon Weber

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Oct 5, 2017, 2:18:41 PM10/5/17
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Ah, interesting. As far as I know the lovefield bug only deals with sorting, but it's possible it's causing some issue to propagate through the linking code. Thanks for all the details; that'll be really helpful when trying to recreate this.


I think I only pay you like $2 a month... I think that's not enough to have to deal with me this much... ;-)

Haha, no worries. I'm always happy to hear from users, especially about bugs. The alternative is an uninstall or a bad review, often without details to help me fix the problem.
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