hand drafting revisited

Jamie Duncan

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Mar 24, 2003, 3:08:21 PM3/24/03

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I used to watch some artists on tv - there was one guy who would do a
beautiful oil painting in 1/2 an hour - yacking all the way through it,
stopping and showing how to mix the paints, how to apply. With shadows,
lighting effects. (there were no ads - was public tv). Every week he would
do a different painting. (usually landscapes - occasionally with a shed or
boat )

I've seen charcoal artists do a detailed grayscale perspective rendering of
a house and surroundings in 1/2 an hour.

I've watched an architect sketch a perspective concept in 5 minutes which
the client understood and gave the go ahead to proceed with the design.

The pc is an incredible tool, but artists are incredible as well.

(oh yeah - the average human brain has 100 billion neurons - a small neuron
has 1 million sodium pumps - which means that one human brain has more power
than all of the computers in the world together)
--
Jamie Duncan

"Maybe the Hokey Pokey is REALLY what's it all about"

Gordon Price

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Mar 24, 2003, 3:27:24 PM3/24/03

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"Jamie Duncan" <jdu...@eol.ca> wrote in message
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> (oh yeah - the average human brain has 100 billion neurons - a small
neuron
> has 1 million sodium pumps - which means that one human brain has more
power
> than all of the computers in the world together)

Ah, but the beauty of the computer is it doesn't get sidetracked by lousy TV
;)
Personally I like the computer because I don't have that kind of artistic
talent, and the architects that I have met that do seem to have an artists
ideas about business, ie none or dead wrong. They can sketch for free all
they want and live off their spouses incomes or mommy & dadies money, I need
to pay my rent my self. One other thing I noticed about those architects
that can sketch reallly well and fast, they have a much higher incidence of
making changes later because what they sketched turns out to be
un-buildable. I would rather make a client wait a few days, but be able to
say with some certainty that what they sign off on can actually be done.
Nothing is worse that two floors of beautiful hand drawn plans, and three
weeks later the CAD section shows you that the whole thing is bunk. Kind of
embarasing.
That said, I can draw well enough to nail down an idea in my sketchbook, and
work it out on the computer later. And I still drool when I think of the
first architect I worked for sketching for the client on the other side of
the table. You know, the architect is doing the drawing UPSIDE DOWN! Wow ;)

best,
Gordon

Allen S. Jessup

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Mar 24, 2003, 3:21:43 PM3/24/03

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Although renderings and perspective sketches are tools used to communicate
with customers and planing boards, who may not be able to visualize a
project from a set of plans: Art is Art and Drafting is Drafting! Drafting,
whether hand or computer can be an "art" but it has a very different
function. Plans are meant to convey Specific and Detailed information about
a project to those who must make the conception and turn it into reality. I
have worked from too many plans that contained too much art and not enough
information. These may look beautiful to clients but do nothing for the
execution of the plan when it is time to construct.

Give me a mundane set of plans that are full of useful information over an
artistic work that does not contain the information needed to do the work.
Any Day!. Art is a wonderful means of human expression. but unless your
working for a rich artist it's not getting projects built.

Allen

"Jamie Duncan" <jdu...@eol.ca> wrote in message
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Jamie Duncan

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Mar 24, 2003, 5:01:29 PM3/24/03

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Think about all of the amazing architecture built without the aid of a
computer - I don't think anyone has designed anything remotely as complex
and beautiful as the Taj Mahal on a pc.
And architecture is a discipline where art and technology fuse.

Mind you, great engineering is high art too.
--
Jamie Duncan

"Maybe the Hokey Pokey is REALLY what's it all about"

"Allen S. Jessup" <jes...@co.rockland.ny.us> wrote in message
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Kent Elrod

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Mar 24, 2003, 4:59:35 PM3/24/03

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"Jamie Duncan" <jdu...@eol.ca> wrote in message
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> I used to watch some artists on tv - there was one guy who would do a
> beautiful oil painting in 1/2 an hour - yacking all the way through it,
> stopping and showing how to mix the paints, how to apply. With shadows,
> lighting effects. (there were no ads - was public tv). Every week he
would
> do a different painting. (usually landscapes - occasionally with a shed
or
> boat )
>

Bob Ross, The Joy of Painting. I used to watch it every Saturday. His
happy little clouds. He left this world in 1995.

Kent

Allen Jessup

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Mar 25, 2003, 8:49:17 AM3/25/03

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It's not the technology. It's the people behind it. Part of the craft of
hand drafting was to show everything necessary to the project on the set of
plans. Same with computer drafting. I always believe that if someone has to
use a scale on my plans, to get a needed dimension, then I've not done my
job right. My point is that too often I see the Art without the Craft.

I've never studied the technology used to build the Taj Mahal but the
Egyptians used only rope, pole and plumb bob.

Allen

"Jamie Duncan" <jdu...@eol.ca> wrote in message

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Jamie Duncan

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Mar 25, 2003, 3:35:53 PM3/25/03

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I thought there were two guys - I remember Bob Ross, but I thought there was
another guy with a german accent who was even more amazing

My point from the beginning was that there are among us with incredible
talents that don't translate to ther computer so readily - and their work is
no less great because of it. Myself - I'm definitely computer all the way -
in fact writing with a pen has now become awkward - my hand cramps within
minutes - much rather do it in word. Drafting, rendering, designing - all
done with the pc

--
Jamie Duncan

"Maybe the Hokey Pokey is REALLY what's it all about"

"Kent Elrod" <kent....@sumcousa.com> wrote in message
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Jamie Duncan

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Mar 25, 2003, 3:37:06 PM3/25/03

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and the wheel - for measuring - which is why the pi ratio (base over height)

--
Jamie Duncan

"Maybe the Hokey Pokey is REALLY what's it all about"

"Allen Jessup" <jes...@co.rockland.ny.us> wrote in message
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Allen S. Jessup

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Mar 25, 2003, 3:46:47 PM3/25/03

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That's one theory. I don't think there is any proof other than the pi ratio
showing up. Originally the "Chariot of the Gods" folks used this ratio
showing up to "prove" extraterrestrial help in the pyramids construction.
The use of a measuring wheel was suggested as an alternate hypothesis for
this. There haven't been any archaeological find of this type of instrument
or any pictures of Egyptian "Rope Stretchers" using one.

Allen

"Jamie Duncan" <jdu...@eol.ca> wrote in message

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battman

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Mar 26, 2003, 8:16:46 AM3/26/03

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just put a tree right over here, there we go........my grandma used to put
me to sleep with that monotoned somma beech.........those were the days

"Jamie Duncan" <jdu...@eol.ca> wrote in message

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PF

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Mar 26, 2003, 12:10:57 AM3/26/03

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Saint Basil's Cathedral (commonly known - and Incorrectly- as the Kremlin)
was built without Any drawings-- so tell me a skilled craftsman needs one!

And your opening point is along the lines of one I wanted to make before
being distracted...
Try drawing a 3d Compound curve (Classic cars, anyone).. with Acad r10! or
even r14.

Ten minutes for the people I know... YOU, CADaver? All you cited was
steel-- rectilinear shapes which St Basils didn't need to document at all...
it has (if you need to know) several Dissimilar 'mushroom' domes-- all
different sizes, all still standing!

CAD is great, but Not the end of inspiration... not even the beginning!

PF

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Mar 26, 2003, 12:15:54 AM3/26/03

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but you'd be disappointed to see that work up close... an old master shows
a sub-painting and canvas preparation.... but you guys are just
engineers...

Jamie Duncan

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Mar 26, 2003, 10:40:02 AM3/26/03

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Oh of course, but I mean at 320x200 resolution (old TV standard) the thing
looked great.

And great engineering is art too - look at some of the most beautiful cars,
or great bridges etc

--
Jamie Duncan

"Maybe the Hokey Pokey is REALLY what's it all about"

"PF" <P.friedrich_12*nospam*@att.net> wrote in message
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Ryan

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Mar 26, 2003, 6:41:23 PM3/26/03

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Bob Ross. He used to talk to his trees, and give them say a little stream
or a bush so they wouldn't get lonely. : )

"Kent Elrod" <kent....@sumcousa.com> wrote in message
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>

W. Kirk Crawford

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Mar 27, 2003, 7:07:59 PM3/27/03

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William (Bill) Alexander.
Great to watch.

Later
Kirk

Jamie Duncan

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Mar 28, 2003, 11:10:21 AM3/28/03

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that's it, he was amazing.
he made oil painting seem ludicrously easy
--
Jamie Duncan

"Maybe the Hokey Pokey is REALLY what's it all about"

"W. Kirk Crawford" <w...@comcast.net> wrote in message
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