Is there a SQUIGGLE tool ?

[MONCIA]

Hi Everyone.
Does anyone know if there is a Squiggle tool in AutoCAD or a tool which will give me a wavier or loose line. I am interested in creating a drawing which feels less precise and loose, maybe even with the characteristics of a hand-drawn drawing. Is there a way to convert the line of an AutoCAD drawing to a looser, squiggle line?

Thank you!

[marybethoberlin]

Try the SKETCH command. You can find more details on how to use it in the HELP menu.

[ffejgreb]

http://www.residential.com/squiggle.html

[RickW]

If you do a lot of this, might be worth investing in software that is desiged to do this.

Try:

http://www.residential.com/squiggle.html

[Dean Saadallah]

Upgrade to ADT, instead of using plain-Jane AutoCAD: it's been built-in for
6-7 years now ;)

Alternately, try this:
http://www.cadwizz.com/cwshots.htm

--
Dean Saadallah
Add-on products for LT
http://www.pendean.com/lt
--

[Harold Leveritt]

Try the link below. I've been using it for a long time, and it works great

www.activedwg.com/Downloads/Freehand.lsp

[Harold Leveritt]

changes can't be reversed after the drawing is saved.

[Anne Brown]

Everyone -

Please do not change the subject line of newsgroup messages to
which you are replying. It breaks the ability of the search
engine to group the messages, makes it hard to follow the thread
and is quite confusing. If it is a new subject, please start a
new message; if a reply, put your text answer in the body of your
message and leave the header the same.
---
Anne Brown
Discussion Groups Administrator
Autodesk, Inc.

[OLD-CADaver]

<<I am interested in creating a drawing which feels less precise and loose, maybe even with the characteristics of a hand-drawn drawing.>>

Every time this comes up, I'm still amazed that someone actually WANTS to be "less precise".

[Allen Jessup]

I use slightly curved polylines with a zigzag linetype.

Allen

"MONCIA" <nos...@address.withheld> wrote in message
news:8052238.108500187...@jiveforum2.autodesk.com...

[doug k]

i clump it in with other "legacy" methods left-over from the hand drawing
era.
such as;

always left-justified text (folks didn't like bothering to leroy backwards
or from the center), get over it and justify in the direction of interest
now, its just as easy.

water-colorizing renderings to show "brush strokes" (as if an inkjet plotter
uses a brush!, who are you trying to fool?)

hand drawn looking fonts. this is the one that'll peeve a lot of archit
types off, but i think its ridiculous coming out of a computer. its like
seeing a modern car accented with plastic wood grain veneer.

"OLD-CADaver" <nos...@address.withheld> wrote in message
news:3320653.108505423...@jiveforum1.autodesk.com...

[OLD-CADaver]

<<One of a few primary rules in surveying is knowing when and to what degree one needs to be precise. >>

Agreed, as a time-saving effort.

<<Why would you want to be more precise when you are no more accurate? >>

If you already have a degree of precision, why spend MORE time (and money) to be "less precise"? You've only succeeded in making something that "looks" worse be more expensive.

[Paul Caruthers]

if your running ADT use the napkin sketch command. acad, I think you are
out of luck.....

Paul

"MONCIA" <nos...@address.withheld> wrote in message
news:8052238.108500187...@jiveforum2.autodesk.com...

[madcadd]

>>Every time this comes up, I'm still amazed that someone actually WANTS to be "less precise".<<

Ever hear of fashion design? Design with fabric? Design with any non-ridged material?

Of course there is no room for any free flowing design because you are still amazed that someone actually WANTS to be "less precise".

I didn't hear Monica say this is for EVERYONE, rather it is something that she would like to have.

And no doubt others would as well and will read about it because of Monica's post and I counted no fewer than FIVE suggestions from others that replied for her and anyone else interested. Count me in those interested.

Oh yes, you're not so just disregard this entire post.

[Caved]

It is obvious that the OP is doing it all wrong. Not your way.

"OLD-CADaver" <nos...@address.withheld> wrote in message
news:5371038.108507327...@jiveforum1.autodesk.com...

> <<Ever hear of fashion design? Design with fabric? >>
>

> Yep, did some customization for a fashion designer a few years ago, they
required very precise drawings by the time they got to the CAD stage.

>
>
> <<I didn't hear Monica say this is for EVERYONE, rather it is something
that she would like to have. >>
>

> Never said she did, I'm just amazed that someone desires to be "less
precise".

[jfranklin]

here's when:
when the boss wants a certain "hand drawn" look on residential plans to present to the client. It's a psychological thing. For some people (clients) who are naive about CAD, hardline drawings look rigid and final, which is not what's desired in the design phases of a home. It seems silly to me too, because i know how the beauty of CAD is ability to make changes so quickly. You just have to try to see it from the eyes of someone who has NEVER seen architectural plans before.

[OLD-CADaver]

<<It is obvious that the OP is doing it all wrong. Not your way.>>

Again, I never claimed anyone was wrong, I'm just amazed someone wants a precise tool to be "less precise". It's like asking for your change to be rounded DOWN to the nearest quarter.

[OLD-CADaver]

<<when the boss wants a certain "hand drawn" look>>

That's when the amazement begins. The guy paying the bills wants a precise drawing to look "less precise". "Okay, here's a paper bag and a crayon, knock yer lights out."

<<It's a psychological thing.>>

Well, we agree there. ;-)

<<You just have to try to see it from the eyes of someone who has NEVER seen architectural plans before. >>

I do, I see 'em all the time. We get "first-timers" through here on a regular basis. I've never had a single one ask "Say, can you make that uglier?"

[doug k]

"jason farley" <jfa...@dynasonics-acoustics.com> wrote in message
news:40acf9bc_3@newsprd01...
> I have never seen a brick that is perfectly straight.

and i've never seen a (real) brick wall where suddenly a large patch of
bricks become "invisible" for a space, and the reappear further along.

[Matt]

The only time I've ever seen an architect want a sketch look is for
elevations, never for plans.....I'm with OC on this.

Matt

"OLD-CADaver" <nos...@address.withheld> wrote in message

news:12076084.108507494...@jiveforum1.autodesk.com...

[Allen Jessup]

I just use the squiggly lines to make fuzzy looking hay bales for details.

Allen

"Matt" <jeg2dsign@(removethis)earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:40acf481$1_3@newsprd01...

[Matt]

lol - using cad to make bales of hay. Not busting your chops, just struck
me as funny.

Matt

"Allen Jessup" <jes...@co.rockland.ny.us> wrote in message
news:40acf890$1_1@newsprd01...

[jason farley]

neither have I.... I am not sure what you meant by that comment
"doug k" <dkochel@wilkinsonassoc_dot_com> wrote in message
news:40acfaf1$1_3@newsprd01...

[Marc Gipson]

I know many companies that like to go "artsy" for public meetings such as
City Council of Planning Commision. .

Marc

"doug k" <dkochel@wilkinsonassoc_dot_com> wrote in message

news:40ad038c$1_1@newsprd01...
> you've never seen an architectural elevation that only draws in a "hint"
of
> brick, because to show all of it would obscure other information (or maybe
> just take too long) ?
>
> it was a roundabout point of saying that drafting should be done in a
manner
> which best represents the information trying to be conveyed in the current
> context.
> to me, the true artistic value of a cad drawing lies in its accuracy and
> usefulness.
>
> personally, i see no real merit in trying to "artsy-up" a cad drawing with
> gimmickery. the art should show up on its own when the drawing is done
> well.
> but hey, if somebody has the extra time to goof around with that stuff,
they
> are free to violently remove their stockings.

>
> "jason farley" <jfa...@dynasonics-acoustics.com> wrote in message

> news:40acfe97$1_2@newsprd01...

[jason farley]

Have you been to an architects office to pick out your future house? I have
been to some and some have the hard lines and others had the "sketches" laid
out to browse. The "sketches" were much more appealing than the other.

"doug k" <dkochel@wilkinsonassoc_dot_com> wrote in message

news:40ad038c$1_1@newsprd01...
> you've never seen an architectural elevation that only draws in a "hint"
of
> brick, because to show all of it would obscure other information (or maybe
> just take too long) ?
>
> it was a roundabout point of saying that drafting should be done in a
manner
> which best represents the information trying to be conveyed in the current
> context.
> to me, the true artistic value of a cad drawing lies in its accuracy and
> usefulness.
>
> personally, i see no real merit in trying to "artsy-up" a cad drawing with
> gimmickery. the art should show up on its own when the drawing is done
> well.
> but hey, if somebody has the extra time to goof around with that stuff,
they
> are free to violently remove their stockings.
>

> "jason farley" <jfa...@dynasonics-acoustics.com> wrote in message

> news:40acfe97$1_2@newsprd01...

[OLD-CADaver]

<<< neither have I.... I am not sure what you meant by that comment>>

..

> and i've never seen a (real) brick wall where suddenly a large patch of bricks become "invisible" for a space, and the reappear further along. >>>

He's talking about hatching the face of a brick wall, usually in "patches".

[jason farley]

What is your opinion about the rest of the scales where the "squiggle" would
be visable?

"OLD-CADaver" <nos...@address.withheld> wrote in message

news:31848346.108508061...@jiveforum1.autodesk.com...
> <<I have seen these "sketches" and I think ugly is a very wrong word, of
course it is in the eys of the beholder. IMO "real" is a much better word. I

have never seen a brick that is perfectly straight. >>
>

> At 1/4" or 3/8" scale, straight is MUCH closer to "real" than "squiggle"
would be.

[jason farley]

It may be "goofing" around in your particular field, but can be a great tool
for other fields.

"doug k" <dkochel@wilkinsonassoc_dot_com> wrote in message

news:40ad038c$1_1@newsprd01...
> you've never seen an architectural elevation that only draws in a "hint"
of
> brick, because to show all of it would obscure other information (or maybe
> just take too long) ?
>
> it was a roundabout point of saying that drafting should be done in a
manner
> which best represents the information trying to be conveyed in the current
> context.
> to me, the true artistic value of a cad drawing lies in its accuracy and
> usefulness.
>
> personally, i see no real merit in trying to "artsy-up" a cad drawing with
> gimmickery. the art should show up on its own when the drawing is done
> well.
> but hey, if somebody has the extra time to goof around with that stuff,
they
> are free to violently remove their stockings.
>

> "jason farley" <jfa...@dynasonics-acoustics.com> wrote in message

> news:40acfe97$1_2@newsprd01...

[OLD-CADaver]

<< some have the hard lines and others had the "sketches" laid out to browse. The "sketches" were much more appealing than the other. >>

To whom? I've seen them and thought "another Archie, spending money on squiggle". In fact, one set of plans was nearly unreadable due to the level of detail "under" the squiggle. Like "spinner" hub caps, a lotta "cute", little use.

[jason farley]

To the people who know nothing about drafting. It is an "eye candy"
technique that works very well.
Try to have an open mind and think about the average home buyer. Do you
think the home buyer is gonna think "another Archie, spending money on
squiggle"? No they won't, probably the only people who would say that are
the ones who actually know what squiggle is (which is very few). Are the
home buyers building the house?? "Cute" is a good thing for the buyer to
see.

"OLD-CADaver" <nos...@address.withheld> wrote in message

news:30804115.108508186...@jiveforum1.autodesk.com...

[OLD-CADaver]

<<but can be a great tool for other fields. >>

For what? What's the productivity advantage?

[jason farley]

It helps to sell certain products.

"OLD-CADaver" <nos...@address.withheld> wrote in message

news:12300816.108508193...@jiveforum1.autodesk.com...

[doug k]

"Marc Gipson" <gipsonmATksassocDOTcom> wrote in message
news:40ad06bd_3@newsprd01...

> I know many companies that like to go "artsy" for public meetings such as
> City Council of Planning Commision. .

do some folks still think the pictures of the hamburgers up on the menu wall
are what they serve ?

maybe if everyone just started showing people exactly what they were going
to get............

ive never had a plan refused by a local board because it wasn't pretty
enough.

and ive never seen public opinion change on a project because a
computer-rendered drawing didn't look hand drawn.

[jason farley]

> so to gimmick a cad file to look hand-drawn is something like cheating,
eh?<

Well if you consider a sales technique cheating, then I would answer yes to
your question.

"doug k" <dkochel@wilkinsonassoc_dot_com> wrote in message

news:40ad1334$1_3@newsprd01...

>
> "jason farley" <jfa...@dynasonics-acoustics.com> wrote in message

> news:40ad04c2$1_1@newsprd01...

> > Have you been to an architects office to pick out your future house? I
> have
> > been to some and some have the hard lines and others had the "sketches"
> laid
> > out to browse. The "sketches" were much more appealing than the other.
> >
>

> yeah, its what people have come to expect.
>
> the sketches subliminally imply that a talented artist individually
designed
> their house (could be true, i suppose)
>
> so to gimmick a cad file to look hand-drawn is something like cheating,
eh?
>
>

[doug k]

im just bitter because i foresee scenarios where the plan i just put 100
hours into is looked at with vague indifference, but suddenly garners rapt
attention because some chippie with a minor in photoshop "squiggled" it
during lunch.

some folks just don't appreciate true art. <g>

"jason farley" <jfa...@dynasonics-acoustics.com> wrote in message

news:40ad144f$1_2@newsprd01...

[Allen Jessup]

Struck me as funny too. It's an outmoded erosion control method. Now
replaced (mostly) with Silt Fencing. We got involved in a project where it
ended up with some lawyers hiring a firm without any Professionally licensed
people to do some engineering drawings. I can't go into detail. Anyway we
ended up redrafting plans done by this other company based on what they had
done on scaled up scans of our original plans. For the most part we had to
follow what they had designed. One of the details was for the Staked Hay
Bales. I looked at an old detail of ours and it wasn't any good. So I ended
up redrawing the hay bale detail. The whole thing was just a mess. The
project I mean. The hay bales came out pretty good. But "What the Hay?" <g>

Allen

"Matt" <jeg2dsign@(removethis)earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:40ad01a8_3@newsprd01...

[Allen Jessup]

Wouldn't it be cheaper and look better to have someone actually do a sketch
rather than "squiggle" an AutoCAD drawing. Real art work always looks better
than downgraded drafting.

Allen

"jason farley" <jfa...@dynasonics-acoustics.com> wrote in message

news:40ad0ada$1_3@newsprd01...

[Allen Jessup]

I have seen a board refuse photographs of the exact house built on another
lot. They insisted that the builder had to submit an Architects Rendering.

Allen

"doug k" <dkochel@wilkinsonassoc_dot_com> wrote in message

news:40ad0f89$1_3@newsprd01...

[N33W117]

It may not be about changing opinions, but having a more favorable opinion
about something. A big difference. Why do you think products come in
colorful packaging and not generic brow boxes? Same thing.

"doug k" <dkochel@wilkinsonassoc_dot_com> wrote in message

news:40ad0f89$1_3@newsprd01...
<SNIP>

[jason farley]

Perhaps.

"Allen Jessup" <jes...@co.rockland.ny.us> wrote in message

news:40ad1bb2$1_3@newsprd01...

[jason farley]

I am just curious as to why you consider it "downgraded drafting"?

"Allen Jessup" <jes...@co.rockland.ny.us> wrote in message
news:40ad1bb2$1_3@newsprd01...

[OLD-CADaver]

<<the sketches subliminally imply that a talented artist individually designed their house (could be true, i suppose)>>

Maybe I've just been blessed with more thoughtful clientele.

[KLYPH]

I wish to thank MONCIA for asking for a method to squiggle things up and to thank Harold Leveritt for providing the freehand.lsp, which works wonderfully. Old-CADaver had wondered why one might spend energy and time on being less precise. I agree with the concept. I daily use AutoCAD for precise drafting every day. But, almost "secretly", I lately have been using AutoCAD for some artwork. I take electronic files of photos and insert them into AutoCAD. I then sketch over them. Now, yes, I could use one of the many sketch type programs out ther, but, too often, I have a stage or building in the background, and, when there are radiating lines, it is almost impossible to sketch them convincingly. With AutoCAD, I trace a line along the eave, another along the base and then 0-fillet these lines to get a vanishing point. I then can stretch-copy these lines, which radiate quite accurately. I had been hand sketching these scenes for year, but, when I put a line down in ink on drawing paper, it is there for good. In AutoCAD, I can change the line, I can move it, erase it, to a particular lineweight, to a dashed line, a dotted line, and on and on. If I wish to move a figure closer, I can scale him up. I can use wipeout with the figure so I can move him around without a lot of trimming & extending. Once framed, I don't need to tell any admirer of my work that it was done on a computer. Anyway, for some time now, I had been using plines to get a wavy look. Now, with the freehand.lsp, I can mess-up the lines to make them look handrawn. Such is another of many uses for which AutoCAD can be utilized. Again, a wonderful program. Read Ya Later -KLYPH

[OLD-CADaver]

<<To the people who know nothing about drafting. It is an "eye candy" technique that works very well.>>

For whom? For what?

<<Do you think the home buyer is gonna think "another Archie, spending money on squiggle"? No they won't,>>

You're right, but several years ago while visiting a company in Houston I heard a prospective buyer ask if he could see the "finished" drawings. So they ran a plot without Squiggle.

I don't think buyers are nearly as gullible as you seem to.

[OLD-CADaver]

Why do that when there are dozens of art programs available that do just that easier and cheaper?

[OLD-CADaver]

<<It helps to sell certain products. >>

I'd really like to see the research data that backs that up. Or is it an assumption based on what the boss says he likes.

[N33W117]

I just knew it was not going to be good enough for you. You will just go on
forever. Hey, I hear you will argue if I told you the sun was yellow, or the
sky was blue, or a bear....

"OLD-CADaver" <nos...@address.withheld> wrote in message

news:19283302.108509112...@jiveforum2.autodesk.com...

[N33W117]

Maybe because he already has Autocad? Maybe because he knows how to use it
and is good at it? Maybe because it works and that is what he wants to use?
Maybe because it works better than anything else? Maybe because he is to
cheap to buy more software? Maybe just to P^%^ you off!

Also, here is the answer to your question: "Now, yes, I could use one of the
many sketch type programs out there, but, too often, I have a stage or

building in the background, and, when there are radiating lines, it is
almost impossible to sketch them convincingly. With AutoCAD, I trace a line
along the eave, another along the base and then 0-fillet these lines to get
a vanishing point. I then can stretch-copy these lines, which radiate quite
accurately. "

"OLD-CADaver" <nos...@address.withheld> wrote in message
news:19283302.108509112...@jiveforum2.autodesk.com...

[Robert Davis]

I've tried Freehand. I think it looks terrible, because there's no variation
or nuances in the generated linework. It looks like somebody took a CAD
drawing and squiggled the lines in a uniform and mechanical fashion, which
isn't human, artistic nor eye appealing, IMO.

To each their own.

--
Robert Davis
QC/CMM Dept.
rob...@easmfg.com

E.A.S. Manufacturing Co., Inc.
804 Via Alondra
Camarillo, Ca 93012
805-987-3665 Voice
805-987-7948 Fax
e...@easmfg.com - General E-Mail
www.easmfg.com - Web Site

"KLYPH" <nos...@address.withheld> wrote in message
news:9826790.108508948...@jiveforum1.autodesk.com...

[Marc Gipson]

I am not sayin that it is the only way to get approved, but the bosses think
that is what people waant to see.

Marc

"doug k" <dkochel@wilkinsonassoc_dot_com> wrote in message
news:40ad0f89$1_3@newsprd01...
>

[Allen Jessup]

Maybe not the correct term. Maybe a downgraded cad drawing would better. If
I altered a drawing so that dimensions no longer could measured correctly I
would consider it downgraded.

Allen

"jason farley" <jfa...@dynasonics-acoustics.com> wrote in message

news:40ad1e63_3@newsprd01...

[OLD-CADaver]

Dude, untwist yer panties, I was just asking a question. There are several programs available that do just that only faster and easier, at a fraction of the cost of AutoCAD. You know kind of a job for a tool and a tool for a job. But this is a whole different idea than the "squiggle" concept, anyway.

[jason farley]

Well it is very obvious that you are one of those "gotta get the last word
in so I feel superior" kinda guys so I am done with this thread because
there will be no end. I am not right or wrong and you are not right or
wrong, so I am leaving it at that.

"OLD-CADaver" <nos...@address.withheld> wrote in message

news:27608083.108509060...@jiveforum2.autodesk.com...

[jason farley]

I REST MY CASE!!!
I KNEW YOU COULDN'T STAND IT.

"OLD-CADaver" <nos...@address.withheld> wrote in message

news:15791475.108514353...@jiveforum1.autodesk.com...
> You make an all-encompassing statement, but when asked for particulars you
degenerate into a personal slur. Gee, does that make you one of those
self-righteous guys who just can't stand to have their opinions questioned?
Naw, couldn't be that.

[smackahiney]

Drawings should never be made to scaled. Do not want anyone to be scaling
from a drawing.

"OLD-CADaver" <nos...@address.withheld> wrote in message

news:31848346.108508061...@jiveforum1.autodesk.com...
> <<I have seen these "sketches" and I think ugly is a very wrong word, of
course it is in the eys of the beholder. IMO "real" is a much better word. I
have never seen a brick that is perfectly straight. >>
>
> At 1/4" or 3/8" scale, straight is MUCH closer to "real" than "squiggle"
would be.

[KLYPH]

I have been using other graphics & sketch programs. They don't allow the easy creation of numerous vanishing points, that result from objects not being square to each other. They don't allow the precision that is inherent in AutoCAD. They are usually "freehand" even when drawing straight lines. You can't choose the exact starting point of a line, as you can with AutoCAD. You can't divide up a line, or, measure along a line. The lineweights & linetypes are primitive compared to AutoCAD. As for being cheaper, yes, they are cheaper, but, I also have AutoCAD, so, there is no further costs. Keep an eye out for this topic and next week I will post a "sketch" that I am currently working on for the Kerrville Folk Festival, which begins next Thursday here in Central Texas. It is of my wife's band as she was singing there last year. When the band members are in bad poses in the main photo, you will see how I sketch over other photos to make blocks of the individual band members for insertion in the main sketch. Read Ya Later -KLYPH

[Harold Leveritt]

Interesting--keep us posted

[KLYPH]

You are right in your assessment of "Freehand." At first, I got very bad results, but, I perservered and played with varying the "scale" and the "wiggle" enough to get satisfactory results from a "free" program.

[EIEIO]

Gotta Texas friend we went to Winfield with who has been trying to drag us
to Kerrville. Gonna have to make it. Have you made Woodyfest in Okhema?
Whats the name of your wifes band?

"KLYPH" <nos...@address.withheld> wrote in message
news:20094058.108514820...@jiveforum2.autodesk.com...

[Robert Davis]

That's good. Free is good. :-)

--
Robert Davis
QC/CMM Dept.
rob...@easmfg.com

E.A.S. Manufacturing Co., Inc.
804 Via Alondra
Camarillo, Ca 93012
805-987-3665 Voice
805-987-7948 Fax
e...@easmfg.com - General E-Mail
www.easmfg.com - Web Site

"KLYPH" <nos...@address.withheld> wrote in message

news:1247535.108514861...@jiveforum2.autodesk.com...

[KLYPH]

My wife & band is Karen Abrahams & Reckless Abandon. Her last name is Swedish and pronounced "Abrams" probably because it was so cold in Sweden. Check-out karenabrahams.com. The Kerrville Folk Festival is the largest & longest in the U.S. It starts next Thursday and is 18 days long. This year's the 33rd. The first time I went was in 1973. Obviously, I am almost as old as OLD-CADaver.

[EIEIO]

Have ya been to Winfield?

"OLD-CADaver" <nos...@address.withheld> wrote in message
news:12597591.108515614...@jiveforum1.autodesk.com...

> <<The first time I went was in 1973. Obviously, I am almost as old as
OLD-CADaver. >>
>

> My first time there was '74, that's the year I moved to Houston. We went
nearly every year for long time, but haven't been in the 10 or 11 years, too
busy.
>
> Old beats the alternative.

[OLD-CADaver]

And I knew you weren't going to "leave it at that" either. You couldn't or wouldn't support your statement, so you hurl a personal slur and want to "leave it at that", well then "leave it at that".

[KLYPH]

I will be there this year making sketches & taking photos, both of which I will scan into AutoCAD and finish up. There are three generations at Kerrville now. Our oldest granddaughter is 18 this year. There are a lot of balding-white-haired-ponytailed men there. I cut off my ponytail 2 years ago. I figured that not only was it the 21st Century, it was now the 3rd Millenium and I better catch up with the times. An times have changed since the original days. Now, the Kerrville Phone Company has a motorhome there full of computers for all the new hippies to go on-line. A lot more wheel-chair ramps will be necessary for us older ones. You should visit and see how the 21st Century treats the music world. This years staring group is one you may remember: Peter, Paul, & Mary. I am seriously using AutoCAD for my sketches, with precision and DETAIL that is not possible with my old hand sketches. My last hand-sketch was done while my wife was singing at the Old Settlers Music Festival in Dripping Springs last month. I was sitting on the ground, legs crossed, sketching on the back of a notepad sheet of phone messages, with my knee as the drawing board. While it did look good, I have since scanned it into AutoCAD and have straightened up the perspective lines and made a wonderful version. Since then, I said I will use AutoCAD from now on. Read Ya Later -KLYPH

[OLD-CADaver]

<<Have ya been to Winfield?>>

Not for the festival, but picked up a hammered dulcimer there in '78.

Anne's gonna dump this off-topic stuff as soon as she finds it, so let's get back to the bickering ;-)

[Anne Brown]

Leaving the Friday chatter (for a little while longer since it is
such a joy to see ya'll being nice to each other) but ALL the
bickering is GONE. It certainly takes a lot of work time to
"police" personal nastiness. Take it to email please - all of
you!
---
Anne Brown
Discussion Groups Administrator
Autodesk, Inc.

[KLYPH]

My having a steady job as an AutoCAD-drafting-Architect prevents me from attending all the wonderful festivals that my wife gets to go to. I haven't made Windfield yet. Maybe this year. She'll be teaching music theory for a few days at a college seminar in Kansas in September. Read Ya Later -KLYPH

[KLYPH]

Anne, I do understand and appreciate your work. So, how does one take the discussions to e-mail? I don't see any addresses listed, or, am I missing the obvious?
Read Ya Later -KLYPH

[OLD-CADaver]

<<My having a steady job as an AutoCAD-drafting-Architect prevents me from attending all the wonderful festivals that my wife gets to go to. I haven't made Windfield yet. Maybe this year. She'll be teaching music theory for a few days at a college seminar in Kansas in September.>>

Cool, a wife that's a musician. Mine just looks at all the stuff laying around (that I don't know how to play), and shakes her head. While in Chicago during the '80, we hit several festivals in Northern Illinois and Wisconsin, but never made it down to Winfiled. Wanted to, but that was a long drive in a short time.

[KLYPH]

As an AutoCAD proficient Architect, I get to stay home while my wife gets to sing at festivals. Musicians need to have a spouse with a steady job. Two summers ago, at a festival in Switzerland, Freddie Powers' band opened for my wife, who was the headliner. I got to stay in Texas and feed the pets and operate AutoCAD. Read Ya Later -KLYPH

[Steve Smith]

I have ADT 3, where is the "squiggle" function?
"Dean Saadallah" <info from pendean at com> wrote in message
news:40abfced$1_3@newsprd01...
> Upgrade to ADT, instead of using plain-Jane AutoCAD: it's been built-in
for
> 6-7 years now ;)
>
> Alternately, try this:
> http://www.cadwizz.com/cwshots.htm
>
> --
> Dean Saadallah
> Add-on products for LT
> http://www.pendean.com/lt
> --
>
>

[jojo]

"Harold Leveritt" <cad...@bellsouthnospam.net> wrote in message
news:40abf76f$1_1@newsprd01...
> Try the link below. I've been using it for a long time, and it works
great
>
> www.activedwg.com/Downloads/Freehand.lsp
> '

I use freehand as well.
Good control and good price (free)

As mentioned somewhere else, never "freehand" your original drawing.
always create a copy. Freehand once started cannot be undone!

jojo

[Anne Brown]

All users have to do is sign their messages with a legitimate
email address. Put it under your name so others can see.

---
Anne Brown
Discussion Groups Administrator
Autodesk, Inc.

KLYPH wrote:
>
> Anne, I do understand and appreciate your work. So, how does one take the discussions to e-mail? I don't see any addresses listed, or, am I missing the obvious?
> Read Ya Later -KLYPH

--

[Dean Saadallah]

NAPKIN command (see other posts on this thread, already brought up in more
detail): don't do it in the only copy of the file if it is important to you,
it tends to be 'permanent' ;)

[TALSKY]

LOL....Lawyers hiring an unlicensed firm....funny.

Jack Talsky

"Allen Jessup" <jes...@co.rockland.ny.us> wrote in message

news:40ad16f2_3@newsprd01...
> Struck me as funny too. It's an outmoded erosion control method. Now
> replaced (mostly) with Silt Fencing. We got involved in a project where it
> ended up with some lawyers hiring a firm without any Professionally licensed
> people to do some engineering drawings. I can't go into detail. Anyway we
> ended up redrafting plans done by this other company based on what they had
> done on scaled up scans of our original plans. For the most part we had to
> follow what they had designed. One of the details was for the Staked Hay
> Bales. I looked at an old detail of ours and it wasn't any good. So I ended
> up redrawing the hay bale detail. The whole thing was just a mess. The
> project I mean. The hay bales came out pretty good. But "What the Hay?" <g>
>
> Allen

[Allen Jessup]

Not just any Lawyers. These were Government Lawyers!

This weekend I got to design a pile of dirt for this job.

Allen

"TALSKY" <j.ta...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:40b177f8$1_1@newsprd01...

[EIEIO]

Caveat' ....want to get spam like wild fire? Just put your real address in
these postings. I learned the hard way, had to abandon the address.

"Anne Brown" <discussio...@autodesk.com> wrote in message
news:40AE876F...@autodesk.com...

[NOTHRERNOW27]

HA!!!!

NOW I've heard everything. Can't imagine why you'd want to use a computer for
accuracy, but then make it "squiggly". Isn't that the same thing as using a
cookbook for cooking what you already know how to cook?

[David Kozina]

Braaaaak - braaak - brak - BraKAK!! :)

Nothin' better than using me trusty Disintegration Ray on da Spam!

"EIEIO" <M...@farm.org> wrote in message news:40b1f667_3@newsprd01...

[Tom Smith]

> Wouldn't it be cheaper and look better to have someone actually do a
sketch
> rather than "squiggle" an AutoCAD drawing. Real art work always looks
better
> than downgraded drafting.

Look better, probably, but that would be dependent on artistic skill.
Cheaper, no way, that's the whole point.

We also use "hand-drawn" front elevations, colored with bottle markers, for
presentation/marketing purposes. They're done after the fact of the working
drawings. Why? Well, it's not my call. The higher-ups and the clients think
the hand-drawn thing looks better. There's a whole different connotation in
what appears to be a designer's sketch rather than a hard-line drawing.
Right or wrong, people like it.

In my firm, we've all mastered the same squiggly tracing style and the same
bottle marker technique, so we can all do renderings that are nearly
interchangeable. But tracing over a completed CAD drawing, just for the
purpose of giving a different "feel," is a horrible use of our time. Tracing
a good sized house and adding trees etc. can easily take a couple of hours,
besides being mind-numbingly boring.

So I wrote a lisp which will very nearly duplicate the same effect. It has
pretty much the same parametric controls as Squiggle, but works inside Acad
instead of operating on the plot file. With the lisp I can squiggle an
elevation in a few seconds, and pop in pre-squiggled tress and bushes from a
block library. The results are "good enough" for most presentation purposes,
and MUCH cheaper than doing the same by hand.

[Allen Jessup]

At first it looked like you were defending my case. Talking about all the
time wasted in tracing over a drawing. Then I got to the part about your
Lisp file. I'll concede that if you can do it by running a lisp file your
getting it cheaply. But from reading most of the other posts it looks like
many people are following the course that is a "horrible" waste of time. I
can't talk. I was "wasting" my time drawing a pile of dirt with grass on it
Saturday. Didn't mind getting paid for it.

Allen

"Tom Smith" <nospam> wrote in message news:40b230ed$1_3@newsprd01...

[doug k]

"Allen Jessup" <jes...@co.rockland.ny.us> wrote in message

news:40b239dd$1_3@newsprd01...

> I was "wasting" my time drawing a pile of dirt with grass on it
> Saturday.

heck, thats 75% of what i draw!

the other 25% has buildings and pavement on it.

[Brian Spillane]

Can you post a copy of the specs for that pile of dirt?
<g>

Brian

"Allen Jessup" <jes...@co.rockland.ny.us> wrote in message

news:40b1e86a$1_3@newsprd01...

[Tom Smith]

> <<It helps to sell certain products. >>
>
> I'd really like to see the research data that backs that up. Or is it an
assumption based on what the boss says he likes.

We haven't compared hard-line computer drawings versus hand delineation, but
we do carefully and ongoing analysis of the effect of different rendering
styles on plans sales. As in, having two different renderers portray the
same houses, publish the different versions in alternating issues of
magazines for a few months, and monitor sales. If thousands of people look
at thousands of pictures, very distinct patterns can emerge. As a result of
the last experiment, we changed renderers -- one style flat-out consistently
sold a lot more plans than the other. And yeah, it was one whose style the
bosses also liked better, but the decision was made on measurable profits,
not whim.

The bosses are also hot to try photo-realistic computer renderings on the
same trial basis, but so far we haven't found a rendering outfit that can
even touch the combination of cost, delivery speed, and visual quality that
the "hand" artists produce. They all promise slightly quicker turnaround,
but of the ones who are remotely in the ballpark on cost, the finished
products haven't even been in the acceptable range -- the universal reaction
being "looks like something from Shrek." Whenever we find something decent
enough to try, we'll find out if "hard" beats "soft."

We're dealing with mass-marketing, not with persuading a single client or
presenting to a specific meeting. What's true on a large scale probably has
no relevance at all to a specific isolated case. I've seen clients who were
repelled by hard line drawings, and I've seen the reverse. I've worked with
people who had a blinding prejudice against a particular hue of blue or
brown -- make the mistake of using that color, and they hate the whole
scheme regardless of anything else. IMHO there's absolutely no way to
predict these things on an individual basis.

[Tom Smith]

I wouldn't call it a waste of time if you got a nicely drawn block that you can re-use later. Or if you just plain felt like doing it.

Unlike others, I don't really care to argue whether the squiggly thing is good or bad. If the boss says do it, I don't debate it, I just get to work. The lisp alternative to hand-tracing has big a huge success, not only in saving manhours, but also in meeting sudden deadlines.

I didn't say tracing is a "waste" of time but that it's a bad "use" of our time. We generally aren't getting paid to do the rendering. It's an overhead cost that we absorb, for marketing purposes. Therefore, the quicker the better. Any of us can do hand drawings, but generally, the older ones are the best, and they're the ones whose time can be put to much more profitable use. The squiggling work is necessary for us, but it needs to be done as efficiently as possible.

I do watercolor painting as a hobby, by the way, and I don't consider it a downgraded or inferior form of photography.

[Allen Jessup]

I was getting paid and my boss is getting paid. So under those rules it
wasn't a waste of time. I did my best to make it look good. One of the 2
reasons we are reproducing this set of plans in cad is that the originals
looked BAD.

Believe me. It was a waste of time. A meaningless detail that we would never
use. Even though I think I did a good job on making the detail. It' not
something I'm proud of because the whole thing is below the standards of a
job we would usually produce. But as you said. We're getting paid for it.

Art is ART. I like some. Don't like others. But it is never a waste of time.
One of the few things we humans still do that shows we're still HUMAN! Use
to work in oils and acrylics myself. I like to think that experience has
made me better at producing a good looking set of plans. I've produced a few
maps that I like think came close to being Art. There's Art in Surveying and
Engineering too.

Thanks for you insight Tom,

Allen

"Tom Smith" <nos...@address.withheld> wrote in message
news:28622147.108568414...@jiveforum1.autodesk.com...

[Allen Jessup]

Never mind. The file itself isn't too large but once it's attached to a
message its too large to post.

"Allen Jessup" <jes...@co.rockland.ny.us> wrote in message

news:40b653e9$1_1@newsprd01...
> Wow! Very nice. I can see a whole new Art form starting. They do it with
> color copiers. Why not CADART? That big a file should have probably gone
in
> Customer-files. It'll kill anyone on dial-up who didn't notice the size.
>
> Art work designed in CAD
>
http://www.temple.edu/crafts/public_html/mjcc/local/gallery/student/Cad_gal_stu.htm
>
> but no CAD as Art work. The field is open. I think I've got to try this.
>
> Allen
>
> If your interested I've posted a DWF file of the closest thing I've come
to
> art work in CAD in the Customer-files group under County Map DWG.

[Tom Smith]

Thank you, Allen. It seems to me this thread got pretty dogmatic, as they
sometimes do.

I think it's valid, for presentation purposes, to "pretty up" a drawing
purely for visual effect, even though that activity may be off the main path
of production drafting. What's computer rendering, after all? The
photo-realistic rendering doesn't show up in the blueprints. Car commercials
don't have anything to do with manufacturing either, but they help sell cars
and keep the plants open.

And as you say, there's an aesthetic satisfaction in doing a good-looking
hard-line drawing too. I drafted for a dozen years or so in the olden days,
before there were computers, and took a lot of craftsmanlike pride in my
work.

It's worth remembering that a hard-line CAD drawing isn't any more "real"
than a hand sketch or a CAD drawing that's been squiggled after the fact.
And not necessarily any more visually "accurate" either. Everything we draw
is an abstraction, a symbolic shorthand notation. Real things don't have
black lines surrounding them, for one thing. And no human is capable of
viewing a "true" elevation. Everything we experience in the real world is in
perspective, with light and shadow, and stereoscopic vision, with a sound
track and a myriad of other effects that you just can't portray
"realistically" on flat paper. The 3-view way we do technical drawings is an
accepted convention, but it isn't the way things actually look.

tHANK YOU, aLLEN.

Allen Jessup <jes...@co.rockland.ny.us> wrote in message

news:40b642d6$1_2@newsprd01...

[OLD-CADaver]

Cool, Kerrville is about 130 miles west of here, we may make it.

BTW, to produce a mirror image of a 2d drawing in MS, use the VPOINT command in a separate viewport.

VPOINT
R
270
-90 <using a negative here will result in looking at the model from the bottom>

Command: vpoint
Current view direction: VIEWDIR=0'-0",0'-0",0'-1"
Specify a view point or [Rotate] <display compass and tripod>: r
Enter angle in XY plane from X axis <270.00>:
Enter angle from XY plane <90.00>: -90

[KLYPH]

I'll try to remember the vpoint command next time. Thanks. Read Ya Later -KLYPH

[KLYPH]

I was worried about the file size. I had never attached a file on a post before. I FORGOT about the Customer Files. This is exactly what it was made for. NEXT time I will try to remember. Last night, my wife and I made the 2-hour trip to Kerrville to set-up our tents. By the time we got back home, it was only 11:30pm; not too bad for a work night. I had made an iron-on t-shirt with the Main Stage sketch that I had posted. It turned out great. Last night I presented the t-shirt to Dalis Allen. She's the one with many Festival responsibilities, including the Festival's Line-up of Performers. She was the one who had decided to have my wife and her band fill in after a schedule change. She was delighted with the t-shirt and will wear it the Friday night my wife performs. Again, the AutoCAD tools were very useful, like Divide, Fillet, Hatch, Linetype, Layer/Color Control, Copy, Block, Offset, and on and on. Thanks AutoCAD. Read Ya All Later -KLYPH

[Allen Jessup]

File was too big. Somehow just attaching it to a post raised the size from
1.2MB to 1.7MB. Some day I'll try to make a smaller one.

"KLYPH" <nos...@address.withheld> wrote in message
news:32203165.108569854...@jiveforum1.autodesk.com...
> Allen, I have searched the Customer Files for both County Map and Allen
Jessup. I found 4 files under Allen Jessup, but, none seem to have the
County Map. Is possibly hidden in one of these files? Read Ya Later -KLYPH

[Mel Dvorak]

Seems like the only post that made sense was the first one. If we all have as much time to devote to our jobs as we do reading all these posts, we should be able to do whatever the boss wants and still have time to go fishing instead of trying to justify our existence!

[EIEIO]

Butt nuzzler

"Mel Dvorak" <nos...@address.withheld> wrote in message
news:29316784.108730634...@jiveforum1.autodesk.com...

[Paul Caruthers]

such a cute sounding phrase :-)

"EIEIO" <M...@farm.org> wrote in message news:40cf4044$1_1@newsprd01...