Help me unprotect this Lisp routine

[Frank Oquendo]

LOL! That's definitely an original pitch. Perhaps you should try a hacker
group because no one here will take you up on your challenge.

--
"The penalty of success is to be bored
by people who used to snub you."
Nancy, Lady Astor

http://www.acadx.com

"chung" <ch...@pbkarchitects.com> wrote in message
news:f0b7a...@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
Before everyone gets all bent out of shape, I just want you to know that
this is my own lisp routine. What I need to know is how well my routines are
protected. Can anyone uncompile it and let me know if its possible. If you
can uncompile it, then I need another method of protecting my routines. If,
however, you can't unprotect it, then I could feel a little bit better. Your
help would be greatly appreciated.

[Tony Tanzillo]

Let's see, you didn't ask anyone to decompile it and
give you the decompiled copy back, right? You just want
to know if it's possible?

[Owen Wengerd]

It can be unprotected fairly easily if someone has the tools. As an
experiment, I started from scratch and wrote an unprotect utility in C, then
unprotected your file. It took an hour and 45 minutes. I had some idea
what needed to be done because I did the same experiment 6 or 7 years ago,
but as I recall it took about the same amount of time back then. :)
--
Owen Wengerd
President, ManuSoft ==> http://www.manusoft.com
VP Americas, CADLock, Inc. ==> http://www.cadlock.com

[Wm.J.Townsend]

It only took me a few minutes, and considering my abilities that ain't
too good. -Bill

Protected by Convert 7.2, Reg.nr: (defun C:FDR

;BEGIN MAIN FUNCTION|......|......|......|......|......|..

[LEsquivel]

Owen,
It can be done in 0.00001 secs.

> unprotected your file. It took an hour and 45 minutes.

That's one of the reason that I stop using any protect utility for my
routines since some of my early serious applications where open, and now I'm
using arx, fax or vlx.

Luis Esquivel
ArqCOM Software
www.arqcom.com.mx

Floor plans, Cross sections and Elevations block-outs, Cabinetry design,
Tags and Bubbles, Metal stair UBC design, Doors and Windows installation,
Wall routines, Text and Mtext routines, Polyline routines, Dimension
routines, Library manager, Grid pat generator, Scale control, and Isometric
drawings made easy inside AutoCAD!

Using LspBOX you can quickly an easily generate drawings.

Email for more information to: arch...@onebox.com
Including is the "Tool of the Week" ISOTOOLS from www.caddepot.com

[LEsquivel]

> , fax or ...

Opps, it should read FAS...

[Paul Turvill]

Do you work for an architectural firm? Which one?
___

[Paul Turvill]

Shhhh! Jon!
___

"jon baker" <jonathan...@SPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:09FF48D1BA5C8D36...@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
>
> with lisplink

[jon baker]

it took you an hour and a half??

with lisplink from www.caelink.com all i had to do was save it then open
it... then uncheck the little lock button and save it as an unprotected
lisp..

--
A2Ki, LDD2i, Win2K
Remove NO SPAM from my email address to email

Jonathan J. Baker
MMC Engineering
Aurora, Colorado
--
"Owen Wengerd" <ow...@manusoft.com> wrote in message
news:1013EDA8B0B62F06...@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

[jon baker]

that is why i stopped using that program and just make the application like
everyone else here..

--
A2Ki, LDD2i, Win2K
Remove NO SPAM from my email address to email

Jonathan J. Baker
MMC Engineering
Aurora, Colorado
--

"jon baker" <jonathan...@SPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:09FF48D1BA5C8D36...@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

[Paul Turvill]

It's not corrupted. According to the header (encrypted) it was "Protected by
Convert 7.2" and the registration number for *that* utility is blank, so
it's probably an unregistered copy of Convert 7.2.

Took me about 5 seconds.
___

"Baglaman" <johny_wal...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:AB8D2C4FF4E7ECDD...@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
>
> The very well known set of tools (THAT EVERYONE HERE ACTS AS IF IT'S
NON-EXISTENT) didn't decrypt it.
> So Chung, either you've found youself a newer encryption tool or the
"encrypted" file is corrupted.
> Can't be sure.

[Paul Turvill]

Oh ... never mind, it's in your email addy. It appears that it *is* your
routine, and yes, you *do* need a better encryption method. 8-))
___

"Paul Turvill" <nos...@turvill.com> wrote in message
news:583045676CDA7B8C...@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

[jon baker]

yeah.. as soon as i hit send.. i said.. do'h... (well kinda..)

hey Anne.. wanna do me a favor??
delete my posts to this question??

pleeeeeaaaassssseeeee....

--
A2Ki, LDD2i, Win2K
Remove NO SPAM from my email address to email

Jonathan J. Baker
MMC Engineering
Aurora, Colorado
--

"Paul Turvill" <nos...@turvill.com> wrote in message

news:F1566A9657D9CE91...@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

[jon baker]

yeah but a fas file or vlx file as of now can not be de-compiled..

you can create these files by using the vlide command via AutoCAD.. this is
included with AutoCAD. in the file pull down there is a make application
choice.. explore that...

vlide can not open the fas file once it has been converted it stays that
way.. if you need to edit the file you need to open the lsp file make your
changes and then re-make the application...

--
A2Ki, LDD2i, Win2K
Remove NO SPAM from my email address to email

Jonathan J. Baker
MMC Engineering
Aurora, Colorado
--

"chung" <ch...@pbkarchitects.com> wrote in message
news:f0b7a...@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

> From everyone's responses, I guess I'll just have to learn a new language.
What's the point of encrypting an autolisp routine if it's so simple to
decrypt it by you guys. Can anyone give me a pointer on buying a good book
for beginners guide to programming and creating ARX files?
>

[DonB]

Jon,

What do you think of LispLink as an editor?

Don

"jon baker" <jonathan...@SPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:09FF48D1BA5C8D36...@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

[R.K. McSwain]

Looks like plenty of people proved you wrong :))

"Frank Oquendo" <fra...@acadx.com> wrote

[Tony Tanzillo]

It's not encrypting that's difficult, it's the fact that
AutoCAD has to decrypt it, and it only knows how to do that
for files that are encrypted with PROTECT.EXE.

Use Visual LISP.

"chung" <ch...@pbkarchitects.com> wrote in message
news:f0b7a...@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

> Tony,
> I've always enjoyed reading your articles. There are times when I want to
encrypt my routines and only when friends with a competing firm ask for the
codes do I encrypt it with protect program. Why is it so difficult to
encrypt a simple text file with a password or something?
>

[Anne Brown]

Done.
--
Anne Brown
Manager, Moderator
Autodesk Product Support Discussion Groups
Discussion Q&A: http://www.autodesk.com/discussion

[jon baker]

agh...

--
A2Ki, LDD2i, Win2K
Remove NO SPAM from my email address to email

Jonathan J. Baker
MMC Engineering
Aurora, Colorado
--
"Owen Wengerd" <ow...@manusoft.com> wrote in message

news:FA74AC66EF7ECD6C...@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> Jon:

>
> > it took you an hour and a half??
>

> It took me an hour and a half to write an unprotect utility from
scratch.

[jon baker]

replace autolisp with lisplink.. sorry...

--
A2Ki, LDD2i, Win2K
Remove NO SPAM from my email address to email

Jonathan J. Baker
MMC Engineering
Aurora, Colorado
--

"jon baker" <jonathan...@SPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message

news:5ED74DF4E6AB1734...@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...
> i think it is really good... but i also think it has fallen way to the
vlide
> internal AutoCAD editor.. since they do the same things.. and vlide is
> included with AutoCAD.. as we see here, autolisp has the ability to read
> protected lisps, where as vlide does not.. (at least not for me)..
>
> there is a free trial of autolisp.. plus the company will give you a 30
day
> registration code to fully unlock the program.. the trial version limits
you
> to 100 lines of code then cuts off the rest....

>
> --
> A2Ki, LDD2i, Win2K
> Remove NO SPAM from my email address to email
>
> Jonathan J. Baker
> MMC Engineering
> Aurora, Colorado
> --

> "DonB" <des...@NoSpambutler-plumbing.com> wrote in message
> news:A560B69AA983EEBD...@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

[jon baker]

i think it is really good... but i also think it has fallen way to the vlide
internal AutoCAD editor.. since they do the same things.. and vlide is
included with AutoCAD.. as we see here, autolisp has the ability to read
protected lisps, where as vlide does not.. (at least not for me)..

there is a free trial of autolisp.. plus the company will give you a 30 day
registration code to fully unlock the program.. the trial version limits you
to 100 lines of code then cuts off the rest....

--

A2Ki, LDD2i, Win2K
Remove NO SPAM from my email address to email

Jonathan J. Baker
MMC Engineering
Aurora, Colorado
--

"DonB" <des...@NoSpambutler-plumbing.com> wrote in message
news:A560B69AA983EEBD...@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

[Paul Kohut]

"Baglaman" <johny_wal...@mail.com> wrote in message
news:AB8D2C4FF4E7ECDD...@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

> (THAT EVERYONE HERE ACTS AS IF IT'S NON-EXISTENT)

Yup, lets sweep the issue under the rug and hope nobody
notices the bump. I'll supply the tar, others can supply the
feathers <bg>. Instead of dealing with this as some sort
of politically correct issue we should educate others that
tools are available to break most of these protection
schemes. Create a FAQ with instructions on how
to protect and instructions (with links) on the tools that
will unprotect. This way the developer is well informed
before they release their code.

I guess the problem is what to do when the FAS
decompiler is released / leaked to the public? Do
we educate or keep sweeping?

Paul Kohut

[LEsquivel]

> It took an hour and 45 minutes.

Sorry Owen, I misunderstood your comments. You were referring to writing the
code.

LE

[Owen Wengerd]

Jon:

> it took you an hour and a half??

It took me an hour and a half to write an unprotect utility from scratch.

[Doug Broad]

Amazingly fast. Impressive.

[DonB]

Thanks,

Don

"jon baker" <jonathan...@SPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message

news:280D319CC0709780...@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

> replace autolisp with lisplink.. sorry...
>
> --
> A2Ki, LDD2i, Win2K
> Remove NO SPAM from my email address to email
>
> Jonathan J. Baker
> MMC Engineering
> Aurora, Colorado
> --
> "jon baker" <jonathan...@SPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:5ED74DF4E6AB1734...@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

> > i think it is really good (snip)

[Vladimir Nesterovsky]

Tony Tanzillo <tony.t...@remove.this.caddzone.com> wrote in message
news:3059D19E7944338D...@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

> It's not encrypting that's difficult, it's the fact that
> AutoCAD has to decrypt it, and it only knows how to do that
> for files that are encrypted with PROTECT.EXE.

... unless you tell it how to. :-) It is possible to create your own
LSP file loader for A2K+; then, you're free to implement your
own file format with whatever encryption algorithm you choose.

I have created such lisp loader (only still with no custom encryption);
after you load a file with it the routines are defined as SUBRs so
the Visual LISP IDE won't show their contents. So the only party who
would have access to the routine's contents in this situation is the one
with an access to the VLISP run-time system "guts". Hopefully, there
aren't so many of them. :-)

In fact, this approach can also be used to convert LSP into ARX files.
It won't be ARX code, it'll still create the functions as lisp subroutines,
but they will be inside an ARX file so can't _easily_ be decrypted.

On second thought if someone could monitor a call to a certain adsrx
function at run-time and dump its arguments to disk on-the-fly, then they
would also gain access to the contents of such file. :-( I'm no assembler
hacker -- is this possible? Is it considered hard to do?

>
> Use Visual LISP.

This is an _unfortunate_ possibility.

BTW I tried the original file and contrary to what is said in many
responses,
the regular unprotect programs *CAN NOT* open it. I guess the guys were
just looking inside and saw the "PROTECTED" there. But that file was
with a twist; only one other program could unprotect it (the one that was
used to protect it actually). :-)

Also, the AutoCAD itself can open it too. :-> :->

--
Have fun, :-)
Vlad http://vnestr.tripod.com/
(define (list . args) args)

[Vladimir Nesterovsky]

Since drcauto can now load FAS files, it may mean
that the FAS format _can_ be decrypted too.

LEsquivel <arch...@onebox.com> wrote in message
news:f0b7...@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

[Vladimir Nesterovsky]

So it DOES exists after all ?!!
Is it final?

And if it is -- will the custom loader (like I describe
in my other post) help then?

Or will the only one real solution be a real LSP->ADS compiler,
like Lisp2C was?..

Paul Kohut <paul...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:9FB4447758DD120E...@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

[Owen Wengerd]

> with a twist; only one other program could unprotect it (the one that was
> used to protect it actually). :-)

I don't have the original unprotect available, but it looks like this file
just took advantage of a bug in that version of unprotect. :)

[Marshall Caudle]

Okay - here's a twist! Remember I'm not a lisp programmer or even a
programmer, but sometimes I need to modify a lisp routine or tweak it a
little such as perhaps changing a drive designation. I change the acad.lsp
quite frequently so I do have some basic knowledge such as the ( ) have to
match.

I have an architectural lisp routine I purchased years ago (probably to use
with version 9 or 10) along with a bunch of blocks and at a cost of a couple
hundred dollars. The company is no longer in business so I am left with a
protected lisp routine I can't read (just a bunch of machine language). So
far I have managed to get the routine to work with the later versions of
Autocad but sometimes it takes a lot of trial and error on my part which
makes me wonder if there isn't something in the protected lisp routine that
I could simply change.

Since the company is out of business, am I justified in attempting to
unprotect the lisp file since the company is out of business, presuming of
course that I could somehow figure out how to do it.

"Paul Turvill" <nos...@turvill.com> wrote in message

news:A37304C5B6380883...@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

[LEsquivel]

Hi Vlad,

Are you very sure on this?

[LEsquivel]

May I ask you the name of that application?

[Paul Turvill]

Technically, and legally, you're probably out of luck. I have a perfectly
good copy of AutoCAD R10 that won't run in Windows XP, ME, NT, or 2000, but
I'm quite certain that Autodesk would frown on my reverse-engineering it to
work on my present system. The fact that your LISP routine was published by
someone else doesn't remove the implied rights to their "intellectual"
property.

OTOH, Autodesk *is* still in business, and they *do* sell upgrades. Since
your LISP author isn't around to object, and isn't in a position to lose
income from your tinkering, then the sin would be much less onerous,
especially when done strictly for your own personal use.
___

"Marshall Caudle" <id...@vnet.net> wrote in message
news:880FC1B68E158C5E...@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

[Marshall Caudle]

PRS.lsp

It's a block manager for a specific group of blocks I purchased. PRS.lsp
starts the dialog box that organizes the blocks. I realize I can always
insert each of them into the block manager within Toolpac, but all total
there are probably 5000 or more architectural blocks within the PRS routine
so to change them over would be quite time-consuming. Especially since they
are numbered with no easy definable relation to the actual block.

"LEsquivel" <arch...@onebox.com> wrote in message

news:f0b7a...@WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

[Terry W. Dotson]

Marshall Caudle wrote:

> insert each of them into the block manager within Toolpac, but all total
> there are probably 5000 or more architectural blocks within the PRS routine
> so to change them over would be quite time-consuming. Especially since they
> are numbered with no easy definable relation to the actual block.

Have you thought about sending the old block managers 'data file' to the
author of ToolPac to see if an automated import can be done. :-)

Terry

[Vladimir Nesterovsky]

Not if you're in Australia, according to the guys from drcauto. :-)

Paul Turvill <nos...@turvill.com> wrote in message

news:F05E8CDDA5B80505...@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

[Vladimir Nesterovsky]

That drcauto can load FAS files? So they claim (didn't
check this but have no reason not to believe them).

That it means the FAS format can be opened?
No I'm not. I used the word "may" didn't I? :-)

That's just one logical possibility to explain the fact above.

LEsquivel <arch...@onebox.com> wrote in message

news:DE2BDA2FFDB390BB...@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

[Vladimir Nesterovsky]

I guess I have the same bug myself. I roll an unprotect in
my loader and it couldn't load the file right away, too.

I guess it's more guessing games for me yet again. :-)

Of course the real problem is we don't need any standalone
unprotect exe no more to decrypt the file; this is a real
problem in my view but obviously not in ADESK's, since
they transformed all their lisps into FAS format and obviously
don't care about this no more.

Owen Wengerd <ow...@manusoft.com> wrote in message

news:354871C963B4EDB1...@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

[Owen Wengerd]

Vlad:

> I guess I have the same bug myself.

Make sure you open the file in binary mode and skip all EOF characters. :)

[Hugh Fox]

Vladimir,

read:
EC Directive on the Legal Protection of Computer Programs
http://europa.eu.int/eur-lex/en/lif/dat/1991/en_391L0250.html

COPYRIGHT AMENDMENT (COMPUTER PROGRAMS) BILL 1999
http://scaleplus.law.gov.au/html/ems/0/1999/rtf/

IIRC there is similar law in the US.

As you are in Israel, your laws could well be different and not allow the
processes outlined in the references above ....

DISCLAIMER: Get your own legal advice, do not rely on me as I am not a
lawyer.

Regards,

Hugh Fox
Sales Director
www.drcauto.com

"Vladimir Nesterovsky" <vne...@netvision.net.il> wrote in message
news:15283A2BBDB5CD21...@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

[Timothy Spangler]

LispLink also allows dynamic viewing of DCL files (Great Option)

--
Timothy Spangler
Product Manager
Rasche Brothers Inc.

"DonB" <des...@NoSpambutler-plumbing.com> wrote in message

news:50838932C0994644...@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

[DonB]

Thanks

Don

"Timothy Spangler" <t...@raschebrothers.com> wrote in message
news:60C093AAFA444122...@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...

[Vladimir Nesterovsky]

Thanks. :-) I was reading all past the first one.

Owen Wengerd <ow...@manusoft.com> wrote in message

news:68DBAC4F6C30EB27...@in.WebX.maYIadrTaRb...