Managed funds? Is it an attractive (entry-level) investment?
0 views
Skip to first unread message
Aji Widhiwijaya
Nov 14, 2007, 4:58:17 AM11/14/07
to austin...@googlegroups.com
Btw, what do you guys think of managed funds?
Emang sih banyak banget fees nya: management (sometimes up to 4%), contribution (although some offer 0% if applying thru online broker), performance fees (if meeting the benchmark), transaction costs ... etc..
Ada bbrp managed funds yg offer opportunities utk invest for example: in emerging markets (one of them is Challenger China Fund, concentrating in Chinese shares), infrastrucure fund (one of them is AMP Core Infrastructure fund, btw ini baru dibuka, focusing on listed+unlisted infrastructure) and of course many more....
Gut feeling gue (& of course my limited experience), seemingly it's a sensible way utk invest di market yg gak kita bisa access actively sbg retail investors... Maksud gue kl managed fund nya concentrate di Aus share markets, ya might as well trading langsung aja, tanpa lewat managed funds.
What's your view?
Mr. Adhitya ;) what's your experience?
Adhitya G.
Nov 14, 2007, 6:04:14 AM11/14/07
to austin...@googlegroups.com
Bro,
Bener.
Gw invest managed funds kalo (1) nggak bisa access marketnya (2) punya duit with investment horizon 5-7 years (3) males mikir tapi nggak mau ketinggalan kereta...
Reason (1) gw invest di Platinum Asia Funds (30% pa return)... Platinum International funds (flat .. nggak naek nggak turun).. IBM (naek 85% gara2 gw dapet stock option)
Reason (2)&(3) invest di CFS high growth (lost 10% waktu gw jual), CFS future leaders (25% pa since 2001), Aust high geared (40% pa since 2002)
Gw juga invest di LIC karena MER and performance feesnya lebih murah. This includes: PMC (yield 7-8% Fully franked), MAP (20% cap gain pa since 2003), ALZ (7-8% yield good cap gain as well)...
Tips...
- Jaman gini sih bisa minta diskon untuk entry feenya. Tapi watchout for trailing fees (% dari asset tiap taon..)
- Small caps stock return in the long run is higher
- China/Asia bisa 30-40% pa tapi kalo jeblok ya say goodbye deh .... menurut gw its a bubble. risknya sama dengan dot com.
- Jangan invest kecuali mau ditahan di account itu cukup lama. e.g. at a stage CFS gw down up to 40% dari total modal ..asal tahu aja gw baru invest gede 2 minggu sebelum sept 11. Tapi gw tutup mata and put 1K every months. Kalo udah lama kayak sekarang sih seems like a good decision. At the time looks like a dead duck.
If the return is so fabulous, why direct investment?
... hobi..... enak aja liat2 laporan keuangan, baca2 AFR, liat2 opportunity .... Its like playing a game.
Regards,
Adhitya
Bener.
Gw invest managed funds kalo (1) nggak bisa access marketnya (2) punya duit with investment horizon 5-7 years (3) males mikir tapi nggak mau ketinggalan kereta...
Reason (1) gw invest di Platinum Asia Funds (30% pa return)... Platinum International funds (flat .. nggak naek nggak turun).. IBM (naek 85% gara2 gw dapet stock option)
Reason (2)&(3) invest di CFS high growth (lost 10% waktu gw jual), CFS future leaders (25% pa since 2001), Aust high geared (40% pa since 2002)
Gw juga invest di LIC karena MER and performance feesnya lebih murah. This includes: PMC (yield 7-8% Fully franked), MAP (20% cap gain pa since 2003), ALZ (7-8% yield good cap gain as well)...
Tips...
- Jaman gini sih bisa minta diskon untuk entry feenya. Tapi watchout for trailing fees (% dari asset tiap taon..)
- Small caps stock return in the long run is higher
- China/Asia bisa 30-40% pa tapi kalo jeblok ya say goodbye deh .... menurut gw its a bubble. risknya sama dengan dot com.
- Jangan invest kecuali mau ditahan di account itu cukup lama. e.g. at a stage CFS gw down up to 40% dari total modal ..asal tahu aja gw baru invest gede 2 minggu sebelum sept 11. Tapi gw tutup mata and put 1K every months. Kalo udah lama kayak sekarang sih seems like a good decision. At the time looks like a dead duck.
If the return is so fabulous, why direct investment?
... hobi..... enak aja liat2 laporan keuangan, baca2 AFR, liat2 opportunity .... Its like playing a game.
Regards,
Adhitya
Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2007 20:58:17 +1100
From: aji.wid...@gmail.com
To: austin...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Managed funds? Is it an attractive (entry-level) investment?
Aji Widhiwijaya
Nov 15, 2007, 11:46:51 PM11/15/07
to austin...@googlegroups.com
Mr. Gautama, thanks for the tips and sharing your experience..
Btw, B.Graham ada coverage ttg managed fund jg di bukunya.. baru tadi malem gue baca2 lagi.. Interesting juga analisa nya..
Ada satu yg gue tau top performer skrg with return 100% in 1yr, Challenger China Fund, tp take extra cautions nih. Agree with Mr.Gautama.. more like a buble.
Walaupun commentaries tend to say that Asian market is still not efficient and plenty of opportunities to be made..
Gw baru dapet email alert ttg opening nya 'AMP Core Infrastructure Fund' ... imo, this is a defensive fund..
Katanya sih begini:
Why invest in infrastructure? Not only does infrastructure investment offer attractive yields and the potential for strong returns, its low correlation with traditional
asset classes allows you to increase your diversification and reduce your investment risk.In addition, infrastructure investments have distinct characteristics which can be attractive, such as long asset life, monopolistic characteristics and built-in consumer demand.
asset classes allows you to increase your diversification and reduce your investment risk.In addition, infrastructure investments have distinct characteristics which can be attractive, such as long asset life, monopolistic characteristics and built-in consumer demand.
Making sense sih kl dibaca2 argumentnya. Btw, benchmark nya: 10 Year Australian Government bond yield + 3.25% (berapa ya kira2 ?? 10%?) Investment timeframe >5yrs Tapi minimum investment nya 30ribu bo' :( Tp dipikir2 drpd bayar stamp duty rumah ;)
Ada yg tau of similar funds gak? I read somewhere MIG (Macquarie Infrastructure Group) manage yg gini2 juga.. tp sptnya mesti gede capital nya yg kayak gini2..
Ntar weekend gue coba research lagi lbh dalem, product2 yg gue interested....
Aji Widhiwijaya
Nov 15, 2007, 11:49:23 PM11/15/07
to austin...@googlegroups.com
Tambahan:
Investment approach
The AMP Capital Core Infrastructure Fund aims to provide a combination of capital growth and income by investing in a diversified portfolio of infrastructure assets. The Fund's unique investment profile seeks to bring investors the best of two worlds with a blend of 50% unlisted investments—a difficult to access asset class which delivers stable, uncorrelated investment returns—and 50% listed investments, which seeks to deliver greater liquidity and scale benefits. The Fund's investments in unlisted infrastructure will be achieved
in two ways, through units in institutional funds and through the acquisition of direct assets. In the listed infrastructure sector, the Fund will focus on companies that provide essential services to the community and will not include sectors that exhibit high levels of volatility.
The AMP Capital Core Infrastructure Fund aims to provide a combination of capital growth and income by investing in a diversified portfolio of infrastructure assets. The Fund's unique investment profile seeks to bring investors the best of two worlds with a blend of 50% unlisted investments—a difficult to access asset class which delivers stable, uncorrelated investment returns—and 50% listed investments, which seeks to deliver greater liquidity and scale benefits. The Fund's investments in unlisted infrastructure will be achieved
in two ways, through units in institutional funds and through the acquisition of direct assets. In the listed infrastructure sector, the Fund will focus on companies that provide essential services to the community and will not include sectors that exhibit high levels of volatility.
Adhitya G.
Nov 16, 2007, 12:19:20 AM11/16/07
to austin...@googlegroups.com
Good thinking 99..
My buddy from AGSM work at Colonial LPT... Jadi gw ada sedikit insight ni...
- LPT in theory should be treated as different assets class than company shares. However, these argument has been blured recently since LPT has shot up by 20-50% pa in the past 3 years. If you want to invest in LPT in the long run, you need to analyse as per normal shares. Key indicators are: assets backing (how much of the price is backed by real assets=> PB ratio, leverage (how much borrowing that the LPT had. Kalo utangnya banyak, interest rise will hurt the earning), earning stability (how stable is the income). In addition you still have to evaluate the usual B/S, Free Cash Flow, bla..bla..bla..
To make it a little complex, if you follow Mr. BG, He said .. watchout for distortion in earning (e.g. PE)... There are normal (repeated) and abnormal (once off) earning.. Low PE doesn't mean that the security is a good buy. It could be a once off stuff...
Good normal PE also not necessarily a good buy... If the company has negative operating CF, chances that it is only a paper profit.
- Funds management that invest in other managed funds pays higher fees. make sense khan ..You gonna pay several times for fees. However, fees shouldnt matter if it return a delicious profit, so you should consult the likes of morning star and the competing product. Just remember what they always say in the funds' PDS "past performance is not an indication of future return".
Regards,
Adhitya
My buddy from AGSM work at Colonial LPT... Jadi gw ada sedikit insight ni...
- LPT in theory should be treated as different assets class than company shares. However, these argument has been blured recently since LPT has shot up by 20-50% pa in the past 3 years. If you want to invest in LPT in the long run, you need to analyse as per normal shares. Key indicators are: assets backing (how much of the price is backed by real assets=> PB ratio, leverage (how much borrowing that the LPT had. Kalo utangnya banyak, interest rise will hurt the earning), earning stability (how stable is the income). In addition you still have to evaluate the usual B/S, Free Cash Flow, bla..bla..bla..
To make it a little complex, if you follow Mr. BG, He said .. watchout for distortion in earning (e.g. PE)... There are normal (repeated) and abnormal (once off) earning.. Low PE doesn't mean that the security is a good buy. It could be a once off stuff...
Good normal PE also not necessarily a good buy... If the company has negative operating CF, chances that it is only a paper profit.
- Funds management that invest in other managed funds pays higher fees. make sense khan ..You gonna pay several times for fees. However, fees shouldnt matter if it return a delicious profit, so you should consult the likes of morning star and the competing product. Just remember what they always say in the funds' PDS "past performance is not an indication of future return".
Regards,
Adhitya
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:49:23 +1100
From: aji.wid...@gmail.com
To: austin...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Managed funds? Is it an attractive (entry-level) investment?
Adhitya G.
Nov 16, 2007, 12:33:47 AM11/16/07
to austin...@googlegroups.com
Good thinking 99..
My buddy from AGSM work at Colonial LPT... Jadi gw ada sedikit insight ni...
- LPT in theory should be treated as different assets class than company shares. However, these argument has been blured recently since LPT has shot up by 20-50% pa in the past 3 years. If you want to invest in LPT in the long run, you need to analyse as per normal shares. Key indicators are: assets backing (how much of the price is backed by real assets=> PB ratio, leverage (how much borrowing that the LPT had. Kalo utangnya banyak, interest rise will hurt the earning), earning stability (how stable is the income). In addition you still have to evaluate the usual B/S, Free Cash Flow, bla..bla..bla..
To make it a little complex, if you follow Mr. BG, He said .. watchout for distortion in earning (e.g. PE)... There are normal (repeated) and abnormal (once off) earning.. Low PE doesn't mean that the security is a good buy. It could be a once off stuff...
Good normal PE also not necessarily a good buy... If the company has negative operating CF, chances that it is only a paper profit.
- Funds management that invest in other managed funds pays higher fees. make sense khan ..You gonna pay several times for fees. However, fees shouldnt matter if it return a delicious profit, so you should consult the likes of morning star and the competing product. Just remember what they always say in the funds' PDS "past performance is not an indication of future return".
Regards,
Adhitya
My buddy from AGSM work at Colonial LPT... Jadi gw ada sedikit insight ni...
- LPT in theory should be treated as different assets class than company shares. However, these argument has been blured recently since LPT has shot up by 20-50% pa in the past 3 years. If you want to invest in LPT in the long run, you need to analyse as per normal shares. Key indicators are: assets backing (how much of the price is backed by real assets=> PB ratio, leverage (how much borrowing that the LPT had. Kalo utangnya banyak, interest rise will hurt the earning), earning stability (how stable is the income). In addition you still have to evaluate the usual B/S, Free Cash Flow, bla..bla..bla..
To make it a little complex, if you follow Mr. BG, He said .. watchout for distortion in earning (e.g. PE)... There are normal (repeated) and abnormal (once off) earning.. Low PE doesn't mean that the security is a good buy. It could be a once off stuff...
Good normal PE also not necessarily a good buy... If the company has negative operating CF, chances that it is only a paper profit.
- Funds management that invest in other managed funds pays higher fees. make sense khan ..You gonna pay several times for fees. However, fees shouldnt matter if it return a delicious profit, so you should consult the likes of morning star and the competing product. Just remember what they always say in the funds' PDS "past performance is not an indication of future return".
Regards,
Adhitya
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:49:23 +1100
From: aji.wid...@gmail.com
To: austin...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Managed funds? Is it an attractive (entry-level) investment?
Adhitya G.
Nov 16, 2007, 12:36:54 AM11/16/07
to austin...@googlegroups.com
Good thinking 99..
My buddy from AGSM work at Colonial LPT... Jadi gw ada sedikit insight ni...
- LPT in theory should be treated as different assets class than company shares. However, these argument has been blured recently since LPT has shot up by 20-50% pa in the past 3 years. If you want to invest in LPT in the long run, you need to analyse as per normal shares. Key indicators are: assets backing (how much of the price is backed by real assets=> PB ratio, leverage (how much borrowing that the LPT had. Kalo utangnya banyak, interest rise will hurt the earning), earning stability (how stable is the income). In addition you still have to evaluate the usual B/S, Free Cash Flow, bla..bla..bla..
To make it a little complex, if you follow Mr. BG, He said .. watchout for distortion in earning (e.g. PE)... There are normal (repeated) and abnormal (once off) earning.. Low PE doesn't mean that the security is a good buy. It could be a once off stuff...
Good normal PE also not necessarily a good buy... If the company has negative operating CF, chances that it is only a paper profit.
- Funds management that invest in other managed funds pays higher fees. make sense khan ..You gonna pay several times for fees. However, fees shouldnt matter if it return a delicious profit, so you should consult the likes of morning star and the competing product. Just remember what they always say in the funds' PDS "past performance is not an indication of future return".
Regards,
Adhitya
My buddy from AGSM work at Colonial LPT... Jadi gw ada sedikit insight ni...
- LPT in theory should be treated as different assets class than company shares. However, these argument has been blured recently since LPT has shot up by 20-50% pa in the past 3 years. If you want to invest in LPT in the long run, you need to analyse as per normal shares. Key indicators are: assets backing (how much of the price is backed by real assets=> PB ratio, leverage (how much borrowing that the LPT had. Kalo utangnya banyak, interest rise will hurt the earning), earning stability (how stable is the income). In addition you still have to evaluate the usual B/S, Free Cash Flow, bla..bla..bla..
To make it a little complex, if you follow Mr. BG, He said .. watchout for distortion in earning (e.g. PE)... There are normal (repeated) and abnormal (once off) earning.. Low PE doesn't mean that the security is a good buy. It could be a once off stuff...
Good normal PE also not necessarily a good buy... If the company has negative operating CF, chances that it is only a paper profit.
- Funds management that invest in other managed funds pays higher fees. make sense khan ..You gonna pay several times for fees. However, fees shouldnt matter if it return a delicious profit, so you should consult the likes of morning star and the competing product. Just remember what they always say in the funds' PDS "past performance is not an indication of future return".
Regards,
Adhitya
Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2007 15:49:23 +1100
From: aji.wid...@gmail.com
To: austin...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Managed funds? Is it an attractive (entry-level) investment?
Reply all
Reply to author
Forward
0 new messages