austin and west coast.eats

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vonroach

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May 15, 2003, 7:57:46 AM5/15/03
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All the insulting messages from various bored trollers in austin and california,
et al make us thankful for the great restaurant scene that Houston now has and
has had for years. These children and yuppies have much in common: provincial
tastes and a lack of sophistication (not to mention a severe absence of any
manners and education). It raises grave concerns about family life and schools
in those areas.

jjp

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May 15, 2003, 2:29:57 PM5/15/03
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"vonroach" <vonr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:eqv6cvssj0shha0ou...@4ax.com...

It's the same 2-3 people doing it.

Provincial is probably not a term I'd put on most of CA. Some of Austin
maybe... many Austinites (and others) seem to have this idea that Austin is
much better than it actually is. I know, I was an Austinite myself not too
far back as were several of my friends who have since moved as well.

I'm ready to get back to some restaurant ideas...

JP -- Houston


vonroach

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May 15, 2003, 6:01:24 PM5/15/03
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Then you can't have spent much time among the apes in California. I'd say it is
the most provincial place on earth outside of central Asia or central Africa.
Most Californians don't know a world exists outside their county, especially
true in Los Angeles county.

vonroach

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May 15, 2003, 6:03:22 PM5/15/03
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Jeremy Goodwin is a good example of a provincial moron.

JETman

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May 15, 2003, 7:12:09 PM5/15/03
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I don't really see what the brouhaha over food is all about anyway.
Let's face it, twenty-four hours after consumption, it ALL reappears in
basically the same form of an end product...

--
Regards,

JT (Residing in Austin, Texas)

Just Tooling Down The Internet Superhighway With my G4.......

mh

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May 15, 2003, 7:57:03 PM5/15/03
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On Thu, 15 May 2003 18:29:57 GMT, "jjp" <jj...@yahoo.com> wrote:

Yes, our opinion is that Austin *is* much better than the shithole you
and Gary call home.

Get over it already.

Motorblade

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May 16, 2003, 5:27:15 AM5/16/03
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How ironic that you must announce your own sophistication and deride others.
If you truly were a sophisticate or non-provincial you would find a more
intelligent way to express your opinion. BTW "provincial


tastes and a lack of sophistication (not to mention a severe absence of any

>manners and education)." is about as repetitively redundent as you can get.
Your sophistication seems to be escaping you at this moment.

"fritz"
<A
HREF="http://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/dispatch/2001-05-11/xtra_featu
re4.html">The Austin Chronicle Features: A Life on Wheels</A>
www.motorblade.com
Birdy(Parker), Brazil(Gilliam),and Brewster McCloud(Altman)

jjp

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May 16, 2003, 2:46:40 PM5/16/03
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mh <mhantispamobratschk@austinNO!2SPAM.rrSPAMSUX..com> wrote in message news:<kba8cv49t0naq59nq...@4ax.com>...

Anyone who has to call Houston a shithole - without good reason - in
order to raise Austin on some pedestal or justify why they are in
Austin - has issues.

People like you have probably never even been to Houston anytime
lately, and I'm not talking about driving through on freeways or
making some quick stop. You seem to generalize the east side
industrial areas to the entire city. Yeah, that's accurate. Other than
the hills, Austin is looking much like Houston lately, with the same
kinds of freeways, endless construction, strip malls and parking lots.
However, in Houston half of it is a revitalization project in
downtown. I was just in Austin the other week and the traffic was
downright awful. Austin has gained most of the big city problems, but
still has few of the big city advantages. At least in Houston I have
real reasons to put up with the big city problems -- it's called
top-notch arts and culture, a great choice in restaurants, shopping,
sports, and near endless opportunity.

mh

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May 16, 2003, 3:05:09 PM5/16/03
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I call Houston a shithole because I lived there for 17 years. And you
seem to be the one with issues -- you're the one always hanging out in
austin.general slagging on Austin to justify why you are in Houston.
If you don't want people slagging on Houston, then don't slag on
Austin.

What a maroon.


>
>People like you have probably never even been to Houston anytime
>lately, and I'm not talking about driving through on freeways or
>making some quick stop.

I lived there for 17 years and I've been there for a week at a time
several times in the last year on business. So, yeah, I know what I'm
talking about, dipshit.

>You seem to generalize the east side
>industrial areas to the entire city.

Not me. All of Houston sucks, with the exception, possibly, of West
University Place.

> Yeah, that's accurate. Other than
>the hills, Austin is looking much like Houston lately, with the same
>kinds of freeways, endless construction, strip malls and parking lots.
>However, in Houston half of it is a revitalization project in
>downtown. I was just in Austin the other week and the traffic was
>downright awful.

Really. And when was the traffic so awful? Rush hour? Last time I was
in Houston, I sat in a massive traffic jam on the West Loop on a
Sunday afternoon. Can't recall the last time I was in a Sunday
afternoon traffic jam in Austin.


>Austin has gained most of the big city problems, but
>still has few of the big city advantages. At least in Houston I have
>real reasons to put up with the big city problems -- it's called
>top-notch arts and culture,

Talk about subjective analysis. Plenty of "top-notch" arts and culture
here in Austin. Plenty of things for normal people to do as well.

> a great choice in restaurants,

Got that here too. But how would you know, since you live in Houston
and apparently consider visiting friends in Round Rock (Houston lite)
as a visit to "Austin".

>shopping,

Oooh ... we have stores too.

>sports, and near endless opportunity.

Snore. I'll take a $9 box seat at the Dell Diamond over a $35 box seat
at Minute Maid Park any day.

Hey JJ, we don't care if you have orgasms everytime someone mutters
"Bayou City." Thats fine. Some of us think Houstons' a shithole
because it's a sprawling, polluted, overpopulated, crime-ridden
dead-end. Sorry if you don't care for our opinions. Get over it.


jjp

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May 16, 2003, 4:50:26 PM5/16/03
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"mh" <mhantispamobratschk@austinNO!2SPAM.rrSPAMSUX..com> wrote in message
news:9ucacv8fh9vq226q5...@4ax.com...

>
> I call Houston a shithole because I lived there for 17 years.

Which is why I specifically said "lately." Everyone knows it had little in
redeeming qualities 10-20 years ago.

> And you
> seem to be the one with issues -- you're the one always hanging out in
> austin.general slagging on Austin to justify why you are in Houston.

My issues are totally legit -- I'm sick of people in my former city of
residence being so ignorant about my new city of residence, as well as other
places. You have to admit that many people in Austin say it's the best place
ever and use their perceived dislike of Houston to help justify that, and I
simply don't agree. That's different than just "slagging" a place for the
sake of starting crap.

> If you don't want people slagging on Houston, then don't slag on
> Austin.

I'm not the one calling it a "shithole" and other such names. My
observations are totally honest. I'm not going to say some place is great
when I don't think it is (even though I do also bring up the good points,
which you obviously fail to notice.) But at least I say why I have this
opinion rather than just saying the place sucks because I said so.

> >
> >People like you have probably never even been to Houston anytime
> >lately, and I'm not talking about driving through on freeways or
> >making some quick stop.
>
> I lived there for 17 years and I've been there for a week at a time
> several times in the last year on business. So, yeah, I know what I'm
> talking about, dipshit.

Then explain what you mean by shithole, please. Give the specific areas that
are so shitty, and why.

> >You seem to generalize the east side
> >industrial areas to the entire city.
>
> Not me. All of Houston sucks, with the exception, possibly, of West
> University Place.

You get on my case for bringing up things like bad traffic and lack of great
restaurants... honest observations. Yet you just say an entire city sucks in
general -- just because. Yeah, that's real fair. Why don't you take a look
at yourself before criticizing me.

> > Yeah, that's accurate. Other than
> >the hills, Austin is looking much like Houston lately, with the same
> >kinds of freeways, endless construction, strip malls and parking lots.
> >However, in Houston half of it is a revitalization project in
> >downtown. I was just in Austin the other week and the traffic was
> >downright awful.
>
> Really. And when was the traffic so awful? Rush hour? Last time I was
> in Houston, I sat in a massive traffic jam on the West Loop on a
> Sunday afternoon. Can't recall the last time I was in a Sunday
> afternoon traffic jam in Austin.

It was a Sunday afternoon in northwest Austin trying to get through one
light. Most of the times I'm in Austin are actually not during rush hour.
For a city of that size, the traffic is awful and has been that way since
the late 90's.

> >Austin has gained most of the big city problems, but
> >still has few of the big city advantages. At least in Houston I have
> >real reasons to put up with the big city problems -- it's called
> >top-notch arts and culture,
>
> Talk about subjective analysis. Plenty of "top-notch" arts and culture
> here in Austin.

Compared to what's available in New York, SF, Chicago, Houston --- not even
close.

> Plenty of things for normal people to do as well.
>
> > a great choice in restaurants,
>
> Got that here too.

Again -- not on par to what's available in New York, SF, Chicago, Houston...
but then who would expect it to be? That is the level I am talking about.

> But how would you know, since you live in Houston
> and apparently consider visiting friends in Round Rock (Houston lite)
> as a visit to "Austin".

I suppose you forgot that I lived in Austin throughout most of the 90's. And
I don't know what makes you think my visits are limited to Round Rock.

> >shopping,
>
> Oooh ... we have stores too.

Again, not nearly the choices available in other large cities.

> >sports, and near endless opportunity.
>
> Snore. I'll take a $9 box seat at the Dell Diamond over a $35 box seat
> at Minute Maid Park any day.

The university sports and others there are not the same as what's available
in Houston and other places. The experience is very different.

> Hey JJ, we don't care if you have orgasms everytime someone mutters
> "Bayou City." Thats fine. Some of us think Houstons' a shithole

You've failed to give any really good reasons as to your label.

> because it's a sprawling,

Also describes present-day Austin and many other cities.

> polluted,

High ozone days are a fraction of days out of the year. I guess you forget
about the Mexican smoke as well, which is often worse in Austin (as this
year.)

> overpopulated,

Also describes present-day Austin and many other cities.

> crime-ridden

Compared to what? It actually just made a list along with San Francisco and
Honolulu for one of the safer large cities. It's not the 80's anymore.

> dead-end. Sorry if you don't care for our opinions. Get over it.

Start backing up your "opinions" with legit reasons rather than just a bunch
of name-calling... and then maybe I'll have some respect for them and for
you... which I don't right now, you've given me no reason to.

Schmigula

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May 16, 2003, 5:02:25 PM5/16/03
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vonroach <vonr...@earthlink.net> wrote in message news:<eqv6cvssj0shha0ou...@4ax.com>...

So the coworkers and I decide Saturday to navigate through the "Mexico
smoke" and do this Fourth street thing some others had suggested for
Austin nightlife. First we need dinner. They suggest Iron Cactus
downtown. Well, after waiting more than twice as long as we had been
told for seating (awful customer service at that place... more like
L.A. than Texas) we finally are seated upstairs. I had chicken
enchiladas. The enchiladas were somewhat dry and lacking in flavor,
especially compared to similar Mexican/Tex-Mex cuisine I've had while
in Houston. Call me a troll if you feel it validates your town to do
so, but it's the truth, sorry guys.

So anyway, after dinner we're about to head toward 4th street when we
step outside and the freakin' fire department has two trucks and a
huge crowd practically right outside the door. I'm looking up to see
if the building is on fire but it's not. The damn fire hydrant is
also flooding the street and there are news crews. What the hell was
up with that?? Anything for drama in this town I guess.

The rest of the evening on 4th street may have been okay except for
the stomach cramps several of us had. I don't know if it was a result
of Iron Cactus or something we had at lunch. Nevertheless, I found the
4th street scene to be an improvement on 6th (home of sleaze, bums and
college drunkards) But I only wonder if it's a matter of time before
this crowd makes their way to 4th as well!!!

And BTW MH, it's funny that you call Houston overpopulated. Austin is
the one with the overpopulation problem, and unfortunately the city
can't seem to do anything smart about that and probably never will.

Schmigula

Schmigula

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May 16, 2003, 5:07:43 PM5/16/03
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mh <mhantispamobratschk@austinNO!2SPAM.rrSPAMSUX..com> wrote in message news:<kba8cv49t0naq59nq...@4ax.com>...

*Your* opinion pretty much means the whole newsgroup. I can't even
tell ya how many times I've seen austin.general ragging on Houston in
some way. It's just sad that so many of you have to get defensive and
throw names around when you don't have the facts to back up your
debate, oh I mean whining. I can't even get a decent reply from most
of you when I give my opinion on Austin, all I get is "Then leave
stupid, etc." I guess the crack you guys are smoking has finally
taken some of your brains with it!

Schmigula

Schmigula

mh

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May 16, 2003, 6:06:47 PM5/16/03
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On Fri, 16 May 2003 20:50:26 GMT, "jjp" <jj...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>"mh" <mhantispamobratschk@austinNO!2SPAM.rrSPAMSUX..com> wrote in message
>news:9ucacv8fh9vq226q5...@4ax.com...
>>
>> I call Houston a shithole because I lived there for 17 years.
>
>Which is why I specifically said "lately." Everyone knows it had little in
>redeeming qualities 10-20 years ago.

Yeah, and I noticed you snipped the part where I've told you that I've
been there for extended periods lately and find that it still has
little in redeeming qualities.

>
>> And you
>> seem to be the one with issues -- you're the one always hanging out in
>> austin.general slagging on Austin to justify why you are in Houston.
>
>My issues are totally legit -- I'm sick of people in my former city of
>residence being so ignorant about my new city of residence, as well as other
>places. You have to admit that many people in Austin say it's the best place
>ever and use their perceived dislike of Houston to help justify that, and I
>simply don't agree. That's different than just "slagging" a place for the
>sake of starting crap.

Let me tell you a little story. A couple of months back, a coworker
and I were in Boston on business. One evening, we decided to hang out
in the hotel bar and shoot the shit. We met some nice folks. They'd
say, "So, where are you guys from?" I'd say "Austin" and they'd say,
"Hey, I've heard that's a cool place." My buddy would say "Houston"
and they'd say "Oh."

That's not the only time something like that's happened. Austin's got
a great rep around the country, while Houston is perceived as "just
another big city."

As for your issues being "legit" -- again, you're the one "starting
crap" by coming to austin.general and slagging on Austin and using
your "perceived dislike" of it to justify your belief that Houston
isn't a shithole.


>
>> If you don't want people slagging on Houston, then don't slag on
>> Austin.
>
>I'm not the one calling it a "shithole" and other such names. My
>observations are totally honest. I'm not going to say some place is great
>when I don't think it is (even though I do also bring up the good points,
>which you obviously fail to notice.) But at least I say why I have this
>opinion rather than just saying the place sucks because I said so.

Why Houston sucks (in my opinion)

1. Too Big.
2. Too Humid.
3. Too Polluted.
4. Too much crime.
4. Homogenization.
5. Too crowded with whiny yuppies like you.
6. Crappy live music scene.
7. Too homogenized.

I could list more, but I've already wasted far too much time on you.

While Houston's traffic is simply awful. You do know that one reason
it takes so long for traffic improvement projects to get started or
completed in Austin is that Houston, DFW and San Antonio are allocated
the lions share of dollars for urban traffic improvement, don't you?

>
>> >Austin has gained most of the big city problems, but
>> >still has few of the big city advantages. At least in Houston I have
>> >real reasons to put up with the big city problems -- it's called
>> >top-notch arts and culture,
>>
>> Talk about subjective analysis. Plenty of "top-notch" arts and culture
>> here in Austin.
>
>Compared to what's available in New York, SF, Chicago, Houston --- not even
>close.

Well, when I want the things NY, SF and Chicago have to offer, I can
go there. Same thing for Houston -- though the Bayou City has little
to offer IN MY OPINION.

New York, SF and Chicago are considered world-class cities. Ever
wonder why those cities are simply referred to by their name, while
Houston RARELY appears without Texas after it? It's because Houston's
not considered world class by anyone except the yokels who call it
home.


>
>> Plenty of things for normal people to do as well.
>>
>> > a great choice in restaurants,
>>
>> Got that here too.
>
>Again -- not on par to what's available in New York, SF, Chicago, Houston...
>but then who would expect it to be? That is the level I am talking about.

Nobody expects to find everything you'd find in New York in Austin.
You're comparing apples and oranges. If those cities are so damned
great, why don't you live in one of them?

>
>> But how would you know, since you live in Houston
>> and apparently consider visiting friends in Round Rock (Houston lite)
>> as a visit to "Austin".
>
>I suppose you forgot that I lived in Austin throughout most of the 90's. And
>I don't know what makes you think my visits are limited to Round Rock.
>
>> >shopping,
>>
>> Oooh ... we have stores too.
>
>Again, not nearly the choices available in other large cities.

I can buy ANYTHING in Austin that you can find in the stores in "other
large cities." It's called the Internet. You might want to look into
it.

>
>> >sports, and near endless opportunity.
>>
>> Snore. I'll take a $9 box seat at the Dell Diamond over a $35 box seat
>> at Minute Maid Park any day.
>
>The university sports and others there are not the same as what's available
>in Houston and other places. The experience is very different.

You're right. The sports we have here are played by guys and gals who
love the sport and are hungry to play it, not overrated millionaire
drug addicts. And if we want those kinds of "pro" sports, it's an easy
drive to San Antonio or Dallas.

Tell me again: how many Houston teams have played at the championship
level lately?

>
>> Hey JJ, we don't care if you have orgasms everytime someone mutters
>> "Bayou City." Thats fine. Some of us think Houstons' a shithole
>
>You've failed to give any really good reasons as to your label.

Either that, or you're just obtuse. I vote for the second.

>
>> because it's a sprawling,
>
>Also describes present-day Austin and many other cities.

Let's see. I live in FAR South Austin and pick up my kid from school
each day in North Central Austin. It's a half hour from the school to
the house in rush hour traffic most days. How long would it take you
in rush hour traffic to get from downtown to the southernmost boundary
of Houston. Certainly not 30 minutes. Yeah, Austin is sprawling out,
but it doesn't have nearly the sprawl problems that Houston does. One
more reason that Houston is a shithole.


>
>> polluted,
>
>High ozone days are a fraction of days out of the year. I guess you forget
>about the Mexican smoke as well, which is often worse in Austin (as this
>year.)

So you're telling me that the pollution in Austin, which has fewer
people, fewer cars and fewer "smokestack" industriies, is worse than
Houston.

You've been breathing too much of that Mexican smoke.


>
>> overpopulated,
>
>Also describes present-day Austin and many other cities.
>
>> crime-ridden
>
>Compared to what? It actually just made a list along with San Francisco and
>Honolulu for one of the safer large cities. It's not the 80's anymore.

Check out this chart:
http://www.delmar.edu/socsci/rlong/data/tx-rat99.htm

Now, not only does it show that Houston has a higher crime rate than
Austin, but a higher percentage of those crimes in Houston are
*violent* crimes.

Factor in the other towns in the Houston MSA (Humble, Texas City and
Galveston made the list) and it's easy to see that the Houston area is
far more dangerous than Austin. One more reason that Houston is a
shithole.

>
>> dead-end. Sorry if you don't care for our opinions. Get over it.
>
>Start backing up your "opinions" with legit reasons rather than just a bunch
>of name-calling... and then maybe I'll have some respect for them and for
>you... which I don't right now, you've given me no reason to.
>
>

I don't give a fuck if you respect me or my opinions JJ. I don't crave
respect from brain-dead yuppie trolls.

charliekilo

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May 16, 2003, 6:55:02 PM5/16/03
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"mh" <mhantispamobratschk@austinNO!2SPAM.rrSPAMSUX..com> wrote in message
news:nplacv0eaj1gdoigg...@4ax.com...

> On Fri, 16 May 2003 20:50:26 GMT, "jjp" <jj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >"mh" <mhantispamobratschk@austinNO!2SPAM.rrSPAMSUX..com> wrote in message
> >news:9ucacv8fh9vq226q5...@4ax.com...
> >>
> >> I call Houston a shithole because I lived there for 17 years.
> >
> >Which is why I specifically said "lately." Everyone knows it had little
in
> >redeeming qualities 10-20 years ago.
>
> Yeah, and I noticed you snipped the part where I've told you that I've
> been there for extended periods lately and find that it still has
> little in redeeming qualities.
>
<a lot of stuff snipped>

As if anyone really cares I'll give my opinion....

Me: Born & reared in Cleveland, OH (don't let that disqualify me yet), lived
many years in NYC (Manhattan, Village/Noho), Atlanta for a few years, a few
smaller places on the east coast for a couple of years. Current resident of
Austin for almost 5 years, work for a company in San Francisco and my office
is in LA (West Hollywood).

Really like Austin for it's climate but could be a little less humid this
year. Arts? Poor. Food? Much better than 5 years ago! Traffic? Minimal
problem. Roads? Suck too bumpy & pot-holey. Love the general vibe of Austin
& can spend a lot of time outdoors.

Now, one of my favorite cities to visit (and I could live there) is
Houston...I hate Dallas btw. I've spent a lot of time in the area around
Rice and love that part of town and the city in general. Has most anything
you want...especially good restaurants. Sure, It has its problems as do all
large cities but eliminate the humidity and it'd be a great place to live.


jjp

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May 16, 2003, 7:03:00 PM5/16/03
to
"mh" <mhantispamobratschk@austinNO!2SPAM.rrSPAMSUX..com> wrote in message
news:nplacv0eaj1gdoigg...@4ax.com...

> On Fri, 16 May 2003 20:50:26 GMT, "jjp" <jj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> >"mh" <mhantispamobratschk@austinNO!2SPAM.rrSPAMSUX..com> wrote in message
> >news:9ucacv8fh9vq226q5...@4ax.com...
> >>
> >> I call Houston a shithole because I lived there for 17 years.
> >
> >Which is why I specifically said "lately." Everyone knows it had little
in
> >redeeming qualities 10-20 years ago.
>
> Yeah, and I noticed you snipped the part where I've told you that I've
> been there for extended periods lately and find that it still has
> little in redeeming qualities.

No I didn't, I left that at the bottom.

> >> And you
> >> seem to be the one with issues -- you're the one always hanging out in
> >> austin.general slagging on Austin to justify why you are in Houston.
> >
> >My issues are totally legit -- I'm sick of people in my former city of
> >residence being so ignorant about my new city of residence, as well as
other
> >places. You have to admit that many people in Austin say it's the best
place
> >ever and use their perceived dislike of Houston to help justify that, and
I
> >simply don't agree. That's different than just "slagging" a place for the
> >sake of starting crap.
>
> Let me tell you a little story. A couple of months back, a coworker
> and I were in Boston on business. One evening, we decided to hang out
> in the hotel bar and shoot the shit. We met some nice folks. They'd
> say, "So, where are you guys from?" I'd say "Austin" and they'd say,
> "Hey, I've heard that's a cool place." My buddy would say "Houston"
> and they'd say "Oh."

I'm quite aware of people's views, I even happen to have family there. When
the only times Houston gets publicity -- it's bad publicity -- what do you
expect? Everyone knows about smog, Enron, and the Yates woman, but I doubt
anyone knows that Houston's theater district is second in size only to New
York's Broadway or that it has the third largest amount of fine arts museum
space in the country or that it's been called the fourth best restaurant
city by some publications. Some people even think it's a desert. When I have
out-of-state guests who have never been here, they usually freak out. They
say things like "it's nothing like I pictured, much nicer."

On the other hand, Austin is like a trend out of control, and it usually
gets good publicity. If it were the other way around, people would have this
idea that Austin was no good either.

So people around the country are generally ignorant about both cities,
that's the only legit point you have.

> That's not the only time something like that's happened. Austin's got
> a great rep around the country, while Houston is perceived as "just
> another big city."

See above.

> As for your issues being "legit" -- again, you're the one "starting
> crap" by coming to austin.general and slagging on Austin and using
> your "perceived dislike" of it to justify your belief that Houston
> isn't a shithole.

My opinions are perfectly legit. Yours are not, so you resort to
name-calling... of me and of Houston. How sad...

> >> If you don't want people slagging on Houston, then don't slag on
> >> Austin.
> >
> >I'm not the one calling it a "shithole" and other such names. My
> >observations are totally honest. I'm not going to say some place is great
> >when I don't think it is (even though I do also bring up the good points,
> >which you obviously fail to notice.) But at least I say why I have this
> >opinion rather than just saying the place sucks because I said so.
>
> Why Houston sucks (in my opinion)
>
> 1. Too Big.

That's understandable.

> 2. Too Humid.

A whole 10% average above Austin.

> 3. Too Polluted.

That's somewhat understandable, although I've found the pollution to
generally be exaggerated by the media and politics.

> 4. Too much crime.

Again, compared to small towns perhaps, but not large cities.

> 4. Homogenization.

In the suburbs perhaps, but Austin and others are the same way.

> 5. Too crowded with whiny yuppies like you.

Once again resorting to immature name-calling... Hey, like someone else
said, many people ignorantly bash on Houston a lot. Do we not have the right
to tell them how it really is?

> 6. Crappy live music scene.

It's not great, but I would hardly call it crappy either.

> 7. Too homogenized.
>
> I could list more, but I've already wasted far too much time on you.

No one's forcing you to reply to my posts, yet you do.

Actually if you ever bothered to look (which you obviously didn't) you would
find that Houston has many of the amenties of similar quality of these
cities, but with a lower cost of living.

> New York, SF and Chicago are considered world-class cities. Ever

The Economist publication actually did a story on Houston a few years ago,
on how it was a world-class, international city, and yet how few people
realized this (again, the publicity problem)

> wonder why those cities are simply referred to by their name, while
> Houston RARELY appears without Texas after it? It's because Houston's
> not considered world class by anyone except the yokels who call it
> home.

Well let's see.

It's listed by Places Rated Almanac as one of the top ten cities in the
country to live.

The Houston Grand Opera is the only opera company in the country to win
Tony, Grammy, and Emmy awards. The Alley Theatre is also award-winning.

Esquire magazine and The Wine Spectator have more than once named Houston as
the fourth best restaurant city in the nation, just behind New York, San
Francisco and Chicago.

Houston has most of the aspects that would be considered "world class." You
just don't want to admit it because in your mind, it's a shithole and you
are never wrong. I wonder if you even know what "world class" really means.
Oh, and anyone who likes Houston must be an idiot because they don't agree
with you.

> >> Plenty of things for normal people to do as well.
> >>
> >> > a great choice in restaurants,
> >>
> >> Got that here too.
> >
> >Again -- not on par to what's available in New York, SF, Chicago,
Houston...
> >but then who would expect it to be? That is the level I am talking about.
>
> Nobody expects to find everything you'd find in New York in Austin.
> You're comparing apples and oranges. If those cities are so damned
> great, why don't you live in one of them?

Because I can have many of these big city amenities in Houston, without the
cost.

> >> But how would you know, since you live in Houston
> >> and apparently consider visiting friends in Round Rock (Houston lite)
> >> as a visit to "Austin".
> >
> >I suppose you forgot that I lived in Austin throughout most of the 90's.
And
> >I don't know what makes you think my visits are limited to Round Rock.
> >
> >> >shopping,
> >>
> >> Oooh ... we have stores too.
> >
> >Again, not nearly the choices available in other large cities.
>
> I can buy ANYTHING in Austin that you can find in the stores in "other
> large cities." It's called the Internet. You might want to look into
> it.

When it comes down to some things, such as furniture, clothes, shoes... the
Internet is not always the most practical choice.

> >> >sports, and near endless opportunity.
> >>
> >> Snore. I'll take a $9 box seat at the Dell Diamond over a $35 box seat
> >> at Minute Maid Park any day.
> >
> >The university sports and others there are not the same as what's
available
> >in Houston and other places. The experience is very different.
>
> You're right. The sports we have here are played by guys and gals who
> love the sport and are hungry to play it, not overrated millionaire
> drug addicts. And if we want those kinds of "pro" sports, it's an easy
> drive to San Antonio or Dallas.
>
> Tell me again: how many Houston teams have played at the championship
> level lately?

Championships are not needed for a fun experience. At least here there's the
CHANCE of those...

> >> Hey JJ, we don't care if you have orgasms everytime someone mutters
> >> "Bayou City." Thats fine. Some of us think Houstons' a shithole
> >
> >You've failed to give any really good reasons as to your label.
>
> Either that, or you're just obtuse. I vote for the second.

Personally, I think the only person here looking obtuse is you. "Houston is
a shithole...blah blah blah." Because you're always right, and anyone who
disagrees with you is wrong -- right? I'm sorry to rain on your parade by
actually demanding you to back up your reasons... no need to get angry about
it and resort to childish name-calling.

> >> because it's a sprawling,
> >
> >Also describes present-day Austin and many other cities.
>
> Let's see. I live in FAR South Austin and pick up my kid from school
> each day in North Central Austin. It's a half hour from the school to
> the house in rush hour traffic most days. How long would it take you
> in rush hour traffic to get from downtown to the southernmost boundary
> of Houston. Certainly not 30 minutes. Yeah, Austin is sprawling out,
> but it doesn't have nearly the sprawl problems that Houston does. One
> more reason that Houston is a shithole.

Some sprawl to more sprawl does not logically go from "nice" to "shithole."

> >> polluted,
> >
> >High ozone days are a fraction of days out of the year. I guess you
forget
> >about the Mexican smoke as well, which is often worse in Austin (as this
> >year.)
>
> So you're telling me that the pollution in Austin, which has fewer
> people, fewer cars and fewer "smokestack" industriies, is worse than
> Houston.

Overall, no. On some days, such as many this past month, the particulate
pollution was worse there.

> You've been breathing too much of that Mexican smoke.

More immature defense because you have no good arguments...

> >> overpopulated,
> >
> >Also describes present-day Austin and many other cities.
> >
> >> crime-ridden
> >
> >Compared to what? It actually just made a list along with San Francisco
and
> >Honolulu for one of the safer large cities. It's not the 80's anymore.
>
> Check out this chart:
> http://www.delmar.edu/socsci/rlong/data/tx-rat99.htm
>
> Now, not only does it show that Houston has a higher crime rate than
> Austin, but a higher percentage of those crimes in Houston are
> *violent* crimes.

I never said it had a lower crime rate than Austin. I said for a city of its
size, the crime rate is not high.

> Factor in the other towns in the Houston MSA (Humble, Texas City and
> Galveston made the list) and it's easy to see that the Houston area is
> far more dangerous than Austin. One more reason that Houston is a
> shithole.

To move up to somewhat more dangerous does not equal a shithole. I'd hate to
see what you think of cities that have moderate to high crime...

> >> dead-end. Sorry if you don't care for our opinions. Get over it.
> >
> >Start backing up your "opinions" with legit reasons rather than just a
bunch
> >of name-calling... and then maybe I'll have some respect for them and for
> >you... which I don't right now, you've given me no reason to.
> >
> >
>
> I don't give a fuck if you respect me or my opinions JJ. I don't crave
> respect from brain-dead yuppie trolls.

Oohhh, the name-calling again. So intellectual. Ah yes -- and since I don't
agree with your name-calling and ignorant opinions, I must be a troll.

Here's your defense in a nutshell: Houston is a shithole because you said so
and because people around the country are ignorant about it and don't know
any better. I'm an idiot because I don't agree with you.

Truly, truly sad... especially considering you're a parent who is acting
like a child...


Larry Dennis

unread,
May 16, 2003, 7:15:01 PM5/16/03
to
In article <E6exa.13813$vk3.7...@twister.austin.rr.com>, jjp wrote:
> "mh" <mhantispamobratschk@austinNO!2SPAM.rrSPAMSUX..com> wrote in message
> news:nplacv0eaj1gdoigg...@4ax.com...
>
<snip - "mh" wrote his usual crap>

>
> Houston has most of the aspects that would be considered "world class." You
> just don't want to admit it because in your mind, it's a shithole and you
> are never wrong. I wonder if you even know what "world class" really means.
> Oh, and anyone who likes Houston must be an idiot because they don't agree
> with you.
>

Actually, we here in Austin are trying to get rid of "mh". However, we
haven't had any takers. Maybe he will move to NY, SF, or Chicago on his
own - if we're lucky.

--Larry
--------------------------------------------------------------------
It is difficult to produce a television documentary that is both
incisive and probing when every twelve minutes one is interrupted by
twelve dancing rabbits singing about toilet paper.
-- Rod Serling

jjp

unread,
May 16, 2003, 7:15:47 PM5/16/03
to

"charliekilo" <miles_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:a%dxa.16372$%_3.77...@newssrv26.news.prodigy.com...

Thank you.

It's not like I hate Austin or think it's an awful place -- it's far from. I
just think it's overrated and not as great as people make it out to be --
and having lived in both Austin and Houston in recent times, as well as
other large cities outside of Texas, I prefer Houston at this point in time.
Understandably, I get tired of people ragging on it for no good reason.


mh

unread,
May 16, 2003, 7:21:10 PM5/16/03
to
On Fri, 16 May 2003 23:03:00 GMT, "jjp" <jj...@yahoo.com> wrote:


<Snip of self-defensive yuppie whining>

>Here's your defense in a nutshell: Houston is a shithole because you said so
>and because people around the country are ignorant about it and don't know
>any better. I'm an idiot because I don't agree with you.

And your defense in nutshell: Austin sucks because you said so and
Houston is great because you say so and only gets a bad rap because no
one really understands!


>Truly, truly sad... especially considering you're a parent who is acting
>like a child...
>

Guess what, JJ? Usenet isn't the real world. My persona on Usenet is
FAR removed from my real world persona -- but I doubt your feeble
little brain can wrap itself around that concept. Now run along little
girl and buy some new shoes or furniture or something.

Oh yeah, one more thing:


Houston's still a shithole.

:)

jjp

unread,
May 16, 2003, 7:22:42 PM5/16/03
to
"mh" <mhantispamobratschk@austinNO!2SPAM.rrSPAMSUX..com> wrote in message
news:9ucacv8fh9vq226q5...@4ax.com...

>
> you're the one always hanging out in
> austin.general slagging on Austin

... I was actually hanging out in houston.eats, one of the newsgroups you
removed for your reply to me. But I just so happened to check austin.general
later... I suppose otherwise you would have claimed victory...


jjp

unread,
May 16, 2003, 7:25:29 PM5/16/03
to
"Larry Dennis" <news@lordskippy_no_spam.com> wrote in message
news:slrnbcas7...@localhost.localdomain...

> In article <E6exa.13813$vk3.7...@twister.austin.rr.com>, jjp wrote:
> > "mh" <mhantispamobratschk@austinNO!2SPAM.rrSPAMSUX..com> wrote in
message
> > news:nplacv0eaj1gdoigg...@4ax.com...
> >
> <snip - "mh" wrote his usual crap>
> >
> > Houston has most of the aspects that would be considered "world class."
You
> > just don't want to admit it because in your mind, it's a shithole and
you
> > are never wrong. I wonder if you even know what "world class" really
means.
> > Oh, and anyone who likes Houston must be an idiot because they don't
agree
> > with you.
> >
>
> Actually, we here in Austin are trying to get rid of "mh". However, we
> haven't had any takers. Maybe he will move to NY, SF, or Chicago on his
> own - if we're lucky.

Thanks for the tip...


mh

unread,
May 16, 2003, 7:32:33 PM5/16/03
to

Sorry hon. Your post appeared in austin.general and my newsreader
doesn't automatically strip newsgroups.

In otherwords, you're a crossposting troll.


mh

unread,
May 16, 2003, 7:33:22 PM5/16/03
to
On Fri, 16 May 2003 23:15:01 GMT, Larry Dennis
<news@lordskippy_no_spam.com> wrote:

>In article <E6exa.13813$vk3.7...@twister.austin.rr.com>, jjp wrote:
>> "mh" <mhantispamobratschk@austinNO!2SPAM.rrSPAMSUX..com> wrote in message
>> news:nplacv0eaj1gdoigg...@4ax.com...

>


>Actually, we here in Austin are trying to get rid of "mh". However, we
>haven't had any takers. Maybe he will move to NY, SF, or Chicago on his
>own - if we're lucky.
>
>--Larry

Don't hold your breath, Larry. You might kill the few remaining brain
cells you have.


jjp

unread,
May 16, 2003, 7:36:52 PM5/16/03
to

"mh" <mhantispamobratschk@austinNO!2SPAM.rrSPAMSUX..com> wrote in message
news:h5sacvkfkjta438o0...@4ax.com...

> On Fri, 16 May 2003 23:03:00 GMT, "jjp" <jj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
> <Snip of self-defensive yuppie whining>
>
> >Here's your defense in a nutshell: Houston is a shithole because you said
so
> >and because people around the country are ignorant about it and don't
know
> >any better. I'm an idiot because I don't agree with you.
>
> And your defense in nutshell: Austin sucks because you said so and
> Houston is great because you say so and only gets a bad rap because no
> one really understands!

I never once said "Austin sucks."

I gave plenty of reasons why I liked Houston.

> >Truly, truly sad... especially considering you're a parent who is acting
> >like a child...
> >
>
> Guess what, JJ? Usenet isn't the real world. My persona on Usenet is
> FAR removed from my real world persona -- but I doubt your feeble
> little brain can wrap itself around that concept. Now run along little
> girl and buy some new shoes or furniture or something.

Good to see you have an arena for your asinine "other personality" ...as
pathetic as that concept is. But judging from it all, I wouldn't want to
meet the "real you" either.


jjp

unread,
May 16, 2003, 8:01:54 PM5/16/03
to
"mh" <mhantispamobratschk@austinNO!2SPAM.rrSPAMSUX..com> wrote in message
news:3atacvge7rtkkgl98...@4ax.com...

>
> Sorry hon. Your post appeared in austin.general and my newsreader
> doesn't automatically strip newsgroups.
>
> In otherwords, you're a crossposting troll.

You have a short memory for the original post I replied to, which was in
houston.eats and additionally austin.general, ca.general, seattle.general,
and dfw.general.

You're grasping for straws now...

mh

unread,
May 16, 2003, 8:04:33 PM5/16/03
to
On Fri, 16 May 2003 23:36:52 GMT, "jjp" <jj...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>
>"mh" <mhantispamobratschk@austinNO!2SPAM.rrSPAMSUX..com> wrote in message
>news:h5sacvkfkjta438o0...@4ax.com...
>> On Fri, 16 May 2003 23:03:00 GMT, "jjp" <jj...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>> <Snip of self-defensive yuppie whining>
>>
>> >Here's your defense in a nutshell: Houston is a shithole because you said
>so
>> >and because people around the country are ignorant about it and don't
>know
>> >any better. I'm an idiot because I don't agree with you.
>>
>> And your defense in nutshell: Austin sucks because you said so and
>> Houston is great because you say so and only gets a bad rap because no
>> one really understands!
>
>I never once said "Austin sucks."

Maybe in not so few words. I just like getting straight to the point.


>
>I gave plenty of reasons why I liked Houston.


Yep. That's the "because you said so" part. Oh, yeah, sure, you throw
in what you consider to be "valid" cites to back up your points --
like that whole "Places Rated" bit you ranted on about.

Funny. In Money Magazine's 2003 "Best Places to Live" rating, I see
New York, Chicago and San Francisco in the top 10, but no Houston.

And Men's Fitness magazine puts Austin in the list of "Fittest Cities"
while Houston is the Fattest.

MSN's House and Home lists Austin as one of the best big cities to
live in. Houston isn't even mentioned.

So, you see, you can find "references" to support either point of
view.


>
>Good to see you have an arena for your asinine "other personality" ...as
>pathetic as that concept is. But judging from it all, I wouldn't want to
>meet the "real you" either.

How do you know that you haven't already?

;)


>
>
>

mh

unread,
May 16, 2003, 8:15:38 PM5/16/03
to

You do understand the concept of "crossposting" don't you?

Didn't think so.

Spike

unread,
May 16, 2003, 8:28:07 PM5/16/03
to

> And BTW MH, it's funny that you call Houston overpopulated. Austin is
> the one with the overpopulation problem, and unfortunately the city
> can't seem to do anything smart about that and probably never will.
>
> Schmigula
>
I'd like to suggest something to help with the overpopulation here,
GO THE FUCK BACK TO CALIFORNIA YOU PISS AND MOANING BITCH!
Thanks,
Spike

--
"I am not brave enough to be a coward. I see the consequences too
clearly." - Ayn Rand

jjp

unread,
May 16, 2003, 10:00:33 PM5/16/03
to
"mh" <mhantispamobratschk@austinNO!2SPAM.rrSPAMSUX..com> wrote in message
news:nmtacvstv2urjk4ia...@4ax.com...

I consider Places Rated
http://www.wisdomportal.com/Books/BestPlacesToLive.html
a better source for these things because that's it's sole purpose. The other
publications, such as Money and MSN, focus on many different subjects and
throw in specials to boost sales. Why Money would rank NY and SF as high as
they do with how expensive those places are to live is questionable in the
first place.

Same for Men's Fitness. Not to mention that their "study" was not scientific
at all. Number of restaurants, gyms, weather, and commute time aren't good
ways to measure if a city is "fat" or not... it's not like they took a
snapshot of the residents or something. I put more credit in recent data
from federal statistics and the CDC, which found San Antonio as the
"fattest" and didn't even have Houston in the top 10 last I heard.
http://www.sph.uth.tmc.edu/hnc/nnm/nnm_FatCity.htm


(I think it's now past the point of taking Larry's tip...)


D.A. Hood

unread,
May 16, 2003, 10:24:26 PM5/16/03
to
Probably a native Texan speaking. That seems to be their answer for
any type of criticism of this, the Dumya State.

On Sat, 17 May 2003 00:28:07 GMT, Spike <punk...@austin.rr.com>
wrote:

JETman

unread,
May 16, 2003, 11:32:36 PM5/16/03
to
My neighbor is a native Texan and he will tell ya that Austin sucks big time...

JT

D.A. Hood

unread,
May 17, 2003, 6:57:55 AM5/17/03
to
Yea, but an outsider isn't allowed to negatively comment on the state!
When you do they have all kinds of neat sayings telling you to leave.
I guess that's what makes them so stubborn. Having to endure a life
limited to the cultural, intellectual and natural resources available
within the borders! ;-)

News groups outside the state have been omitted from this response.
They're not here so it's none of their business what we're talkin'
about. If they don't like it they can unsubscribe.

On Sat, 17 May 2003 03:32:36 GMT, JETman <jeta...@worldnet.att.net>
wrote:

JETman

unread,
May 17, 2003, 10:26:19 AM5/17/03
to
I think that the crux of the discussion in Austin is the fact that the
city has grown rapidly but still has small city amenities. This can be
good or bad depending on one's point of view.

However, rapid growth has brought rapid increases in taxes to big city
status without the amenities. I don't think that anyone can deny this
as fact.

I first arrived in 1990 and generally like Austin. However, thirteen
years later, it has truly turned in a shithole where the ONLY advantage
over my former homeland is the lack of severe cold weather. And yes, in
a couple more years, I will leave Austin for ever...

JT

--
Regards,

JT (Residing in Austin, Texas)

Just Tooling Down The Internet Superhighway With my G4.......

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