Go Longhorns!!!
Brian P. Combs
time. And to overcome so many bad calls shows real heart.
Brian Combs
--
Brian Combs, President Tel: (512) 927-2214
Austin Web Publishing, Inc. Fax: (512) 929-0150
13740 Research Blvd., Suite K-6 Email: co...@awpi.com
Austin, Texas 78729 WWW: www.awpi.com
Fred Goodwin
co...@awpi.com (Brian P. Combs) wrote:
>What a game! I haven't seen a defense play like that in a long
>time. And to overcome so many bad calls shows real heart.
I can't believe I missed the biggest game in the last five years!! I
was on my way to Dallas to baptise a god-child. If anyone taped, please
let me know via email -- I would be happy to pickup and return after a
day.
Thanx,
GO HORNS!!!
---
=========================================================================
* Fred Goodwin, SW Bell Telephone fgoo...@eden.com *
* Opinions are my own, not SWBT fg8...@ausmail1.sbc.com *
* 1616 Guadalupe, Room 640 Dallas Cowboys Training Camp Page *
* Austin, TX 78701 http://www.eden.com/~fgoodwin/cowboys.htm *
=========================================================================
Gene Crick
Fred Goodwin <fgoo...@eden.com> wrote:
>
>I can't believe I missed the biggest game in the last five years!! I
>was on my way to Dallas to baptise a god-child. If anyone taped, please
>let me know via email -- I would be happy to pickup and return after a
>day.
>
>
Five years, Hell! Fred, seeing the Longhorns win the final ever
SWC championship at College Station was the most football joy this
TexEx has had in decades. If you don't find a tape, let me know
and I'll ask around.
gene crick
Ted Neible
>
> In article <49qrnq$4...@sisko.awpi.com>,
> co...@awpi.com (Brian P. Combs) wrote:
> >What a game! I haven't seen a defense play like that in a long
> >time. And to overcome so many bad calls shows real heart.
>
> was on my way to Dallas to baptise a god-child. If anyone taped, please
> let me know via email -- I would be happy to pickup and return after a
> day.
>
>
> GO HORNS!!!
>
> ---
> =========================================================================
> * Fred Goodwin, SW Bell Telephone fgoo...@eden.com *
> * Opinions are my own, not SWBT fg8...@ausmail1.sbc.com *
> * 1616 Guadalupe, Room 640 Dallas Cowboys Training Camp Page *
> * Austin, TX 78701 http://www.eden.com/~fgoodwin/cowboys.htm *
> =========================================================================
When was the last time you felt comfortable with a ten point lead against
the aggies? Even after Leland McLeroy took the ball down to the 17 where
he was horse-collared by Mr. Westbrook; I said to myself, "yeah, but they
still are not in the end-zone." This team has developed quite a character
for knowing what it takes to win. They are always in the game and fully
realize that until the opposition scores, you have the potential to make
something good happen. Witness six turnovers. A total effort; everybody
contributed something in this great win. Mr. Pulig must be sore today.
Is A&M the training ground for the next generation of "jack booted thugs?"
What is up with those core-heads? I remember one of them drawing a sabre
on an SMU cheerleader.
--
/******************************************************************
/* Ted Neible | tne...@austin.ibm.com
/* Works for, but does not | AUSVM6(TNEIBLE)
/* speak for IBM. | tne...@eworld.com
/******************************************************************
pjpr...@eden.com
>Is A&M the training ground for the next generation of "jack booted thugs?"
>What is up with those core-heads? I remember one of them drawing a sabre
>on an SMU cheerleader.
What really happened in the incident after the game? The KLBJ play-by-play
man said that 30 cadets pounded a UT student for trying to run onto the field,
then described the situation as 'turning very ugly' and 'needing police' when
the cadets positioned themselves in front of the UT band.
======================================================================
Joe Barr jb...@i-link.net
Se Habla Dweeb pjpr...@eden.com
The Dweebspeak Primer http://www.eden.com/~pjprimer
======================================================================
Charles Herrick
fgoo...@eden.com (Fred Goodwin) wrote:
>In article <49qrnq$4...@sisko.awpi.com>,
> co...@awpi.com (Brian P. Combs) wrote:
>>What a game! I haven't seen a defense play like that in a long
>>time. And to overcome so many bad calls shows real heart.
>
>I can't believe I missed the biggest game in the last five years!! I
>was on my way to Dallas to baptise a god-child. If anyone taped, please
>let me know via email -- I would be happy to pickup and return after a
>day.
game?
Was there some sort of football game on Saturday?
Gig 'em (next year)
---
My comments above are offered solely as my personal opinions.
I speak for no one but myself at all times.
Right to copy my comments in any form other than netnews and email
is expressly forbidden, including any form of print or visual
journalism. This restriction includes any part of my statements
quoted by anyone anywhere else.
I retain the right to copyright my statements.
Don House-SunService
Rumor has it that swords were drawn Sat. If the aggie corp is indicative
of the people wanting to carry concealed weapons, I can see why Lars is
concerned. :^)
---
dh
Ted Neible
given by the guys doing the radio broadcast on the Longhorn Network. They
described it as an ugly scene which should have been broken up by someone.
Obviously from the number of cadets willing to pummel ignorant Longhorn fans;
the scene had the potential for getting real ugly. I did see a snippet of
video on TVEE which showed some number of angry cadets flailing away at an
unseen target. Where were the "commanding" officers for those cadets?
Is it possible to prosecute the perpetrators for assault?
I misspoke earlier; I suppose they should be labeled "corps-heads."
pjpr...@eden.com wrote:
>
> In <30C32B...@austin.ibm.com>, Ted Neible <tne...@austin.ibm.com> writes:
>
> >Is A&M the training ground for the next generation of "jack booted thugs?"
> >What is up with those core-heads? I remember one of them drawing a sabre
> >on an SMU cheerleader.
>
> What really happened in the incident after the game? The KLBJ play-by-play
> man said that 30 cadets pounded a UT student for trying to run onto the field,
> then described the situation as 'turning very ugly' and 'needing police' when
> the cadets positioned themselves in front of the UT band.
>
> ======================================================================
> Joe Barr jb...@i-link.net
> Se Habla Dweeb pjpr...@eden.com
> The Dweebspeak Primer http://www.eden.com/~pjprimer
> ======================================================================
--
C.Moss
>
>I don't really know what happened after the game other than the description
>given by the guys doing the radio broadcast on the Longhorn Network. They
>described it as an ugly scene which should have been broken up by someone.
>Obviously from the number of cadets willing to pummel ignorant Longhorn fans;
>the scene had the potential for getting real ugly. I did see a snippet of
>video on TVEE which showed some number of angry cadets flailing away at an
>unseen target. Where were the "commanding" officers for those cadets?
>Is it possible to prosecute the perpetrators for assault?
>
>I misspoke earlier; I suppose they should be labeled "corps-heads."
>
>pjpr...@eden.com wrote:
>>
>> In <30C32B...@austin.ibm.com>, Ted Neible <tne...@austin.ibm.com> writes:
>>
>> >Is A&M the training ground for the next generation of "jack booted thugs?"
>> >What is up with those core-heads? I remember one of them drawing a sabre
>> >on an SMU cheerleader.
>>
>> What really happened in the incident after the game? The KLBJ play-by-play
>> man said that 30 cadets pounded a UT student for trying to run onto the field,
>> then described the situation as 'turning very ugly' and 'needing police' when
>> the cadets positioned themselves in front of the UT band.
Jeez, first the Longhorns mascot gets his butt kicked by the Tech
band and now some poor misguided UT fans get pummeled by
A&M cadets?
Maybe these rivalries have gone a bit too far?
Anyway - congrats UT on a fine season. As for A&M, it had to happen
one day. Too bad when that day arrived you weren't disciplined enough
to accept it.
CBM
Charles Herrick
Y'all need to get your facts straight.
It is a time-honored tradition that
non-Aggies do _NOT_ walk on Kyle Field.
At the game, the announcer made an announcement
making that crystal clear.
Then, to provoke a situation, several t.u.
students walked out onto Kyle Field.
By the way, Kyle Field, along with the grass
around the student center, are dedicated as
memorials to soldiers how died in defense
of America in past wars.
1. Just goes to show you the level of disrespect
to which some t.u. students are willing to
descend
2. They asked for it, they got it. Gig 'em.
Kind of makes you wonder why things don't
work this way elsewhere in American, doesn't it?
Tony Mullins
>
>Y'all need to get your facts straight.
>
>It is a time-honored tradition that
>non-Aggies do _NOT_ walk on Kyle Field.
So what? Since when are the Corp of Cadets a legally recognized enforcement
agency? Why doesn't A&M hire duly deputized police like every other university
who endeavors to keep roudy fans from destroying the field?
>
>At the game, the announcer made an announcement
>making that crystal clear.
>
>Then, to provoke a situation, several t.u.
>students walked out onto Kyle Field.
>
>By the way, Kyle Field, along with the grass
>around the student center, are dedicated as
>memorials to soldiers how died in defense
>of America in past wars.
>
>1. Just goes to show you the level of disrespect
>to which some t.u. students are willing to
>descend
>
>2. They asked for it, they got it. Gig 'em.
>Kind of makes you wonder why things don't
>work this way elsewhere in American, doesn't it?
Charles, surely you jest? Something about the punishment fitting the offense
applies here. The U.T. students assaulted by the Cadets have every right to
file criminal assault charges and a personal lawsuit both against the
individuals and A&M if it can be proved that the A&M University management
condone such action by the Cadets.
This is a civil society and assault to prevent trespassing is not allowed.
>
>---
>My comments above are offered solely as my personal opinions.
Thank goodness. I shudder to think that others hold opinions similar to those
you just presented.
>I speak for no one but myself at all times.
>Right to copy my comments in any form other than netnews and email
>is expressly forbidden, including any form of print or visual
>journalism.
This is unenforceable and violates fair use provisions of copyright law. You
can and should be quoted in any news forum that a writer sees fit to repeat
your statements. You may retain the copyrights to your words, but fair use
provisions still apply.
>This restriction includes any part of my statements
>quoted by anyone anywhere else.
>I retain the right to copyright my statements.
--
Tony Mullins |internet: jam...@che.utexas.edu
Dept. of Chem. Eng'rg., CPE 5.438 |ma bell : 512-471-3477
University of Texas - Austin |ma FAX : 512-475-7824
Austin, TX 78712-1062 |
L. Lance Obermeyer
Charles Herrick <charles...@cyberdigm.com> wrote:
[...]
>
>Y'all need to get your facts straight.
>
>It is a time-honored tradition that
>non-Aggies do _NOT_ walk on Kyle Field.
>
I am personally very surprised that Mr. Herrick has fallen into
the trap of essentially saying "something is so just because I say it
is so, irregardless of my personal behavior." Chuck, that is so
unlike you.
Here are a couple of facts, as I see them.
1. Aggies voilated UT property a few years ago when they cut the horns
out of the turf (from "Memorial" field).
2. Aggies clearly don't respect others property (above). To attempt
to get others to respect theirs, they have to appeal to this "died
in the line of duty" stuff.
3. True memorials are quiet, reflective places that lead one to consider
the sacrifices made in our behalfs by people we have never met (e.g.
Vietnam Memorial, Lincoln Memorial...), not loud violent places
where visitors are encouraged to swear, wish harm, and injur others
and bear the insignias of Nike and Reebok.
Bottom line: If you want to create your own (IMO, disfunctional) culture
at your university, fine. Just don't expect all visitors to not notice
that your emperor has no clothes.
This whole thing has really upset me. As a (non-native but proud) Texan
and a (native and proud) American, I was very upset and offended by the
actions on the field. The Aggies corps members showed a level of character
(IMO) that leads to raping innocent women in Okinawa. The core leaders
showed a level of character that leads to trivializing raped women by
suggesting the thug perpetrators would have saved money had they simply
gotten a hooker.
My opinion.
--
Lance Obermeyer lan...@arlut.utexas.edu
Applied Research Laboratory lan...@cs.utexas.edu
University of Texas at Austin 512-835-3837
Charles Brendan Callaway
>It is a time-honored tradition that
>non-Aggies do _NOT_ walk on Kyle Field.
It's also a time-honored tradition that a&m students shouldn't carve up
astroturf off of Memorial field. (well, anybody for that matter)
Does this include football players? I think we should start a tradition
that a&m has to lose all of its games to us. Then they would be honor-bound
to lose to protect our tradition, no matter how silly.
>By the way, Kyle Field, along with the grass
>around the student center, are dedicated as
>memorials to soldiers how died in defense
>of America in past wars.
And why do you think Memorial stadium is called that???
>1. Just goes to show you the level of disrespect
>to which some t.u. students are willing to
>descend
vice versa, et cetera, ad nauseam.
>2. They asked for it, they got it. Gig 'em.
>Kind of makes you wonder why things don't
>work this way elsewhere in American, doesn't it?
Hmmmm, I wonder if we could consider this your way of "asking for it"...
-Charles
Ted Neible
> >
> >Where were the "commanding" officers for those cadets?
> >Is it possible to prosecute the perpetrators for assault?
> >
> >I misspoke earlier; I suppose they should be labeled "corps-heads."
> >
>
> band and now some poor misguided UT fans get pummeled by
> A&M cadets?
>
> Maybe these rivalries have gone a bit too far?
>
> Anyway - congrats UT on a fine season. As for A&M, it had to happen
> one day. Too bad when that day arrived you weren't disciplined enough
> to accept it.
>
I would still like to know:
Where were the "commanding" officers for those cadets?
Should the perpetrators be prosecuted? I believe the Tech band members
faced a judge.
Regards, Ted.
Ray Shea
Charles Herrick <charles...@cyberdigm.com> wrote:
>
>2. They asked for it, they got it. Gig 'em.
Of course, this isn't the first time the Corps has gotten its panties
in a wad over someone doing something they didn't like. In '82, a Corps
member drew his sabre and attacked some SMU cheerleaders for doing
cartwheels on Kyle field after a touchdown (which is an SMU tradition).
And in the early 70's, a large crowd of Corp members and other Aggies
surrounded Rice Stadium waiting to inflict revenge on the Rice MOB for
playing "Oh Where Oh Where Has My Little Dog Gone" a week after Aggie
mascot Reveille died. The MOB had to be smuggled out a back entrace in
food service trucks under police escort to escape serious bodily harm
from the humor-loving farm boys.
If Aggies think armed soldiers are more cost-effective than a few "Keep
Off The Grass" signs, that's fine with me, as long as they stay up there
in farm country where they belong. Seeing as how police roadblocks are
all the rage these days, maybe we could set one up to administer IQ tests to
anyone in a maroon pickup trying to enter Travis county, and turn back the
ones who don't pass. I'm thinking some kind of test with like a box, a
stick, and a banana on a string...you get the idea.
gag 'em.
--
Ray Shea DoD#372 | "Content is overrated."
Infosleuth Project | --www.suck.com
sh...@mcc.com -- MCC |
sh...@eden.com -- home |
Ted Neible
>
> game?
>
> Was there some sort of football game on Saturday?
>
> Gig 'em (next year)
>
> My comments above are offered solely as my personal opinions.
> Right to copy my comments in any form other than netnews and email
> is expressly forbidden, including any form of print or visual
> quoted by anyone anywhere else.
> I retain the right to copyright my statements.
Yes there was a game last Saturday; between a very fired up
University of Texas Longorn team and aTm. You owe it to
yourself to view some of the highlight hits delivered during
the contest. I remember Mr. Westbrook taking Leland out of
his shows and then getting flagged for too much celebrating.
Result: 3 of aTm's 6 points. Or how about Stoney setting the
tone for the game by forcing a fumble. Or the one that Tony
Brackens got away with on Mr. Pullig. Thinking about it makes
me wish I had it on tape.
I hope UT can play with the same intensity against what sounds
to be the a&m of the east coast. Let's hope their corps of cadets
has better manners.
Mark A. Breland
In article <DJ67K...@txnews.amd.com>, charles...@cyberdigm.com (Charles Herrick) writes:
[snip]
>2. They asked for it, they got it. Gig 'em.
Somehow I fail to find any honor in the beating of an individual by
20-30 undisciplined cadets.
Such officers...
Such gentlemen...
Wah.
Jeffrey W. Janner
} In <30C32B...@austin.ibm.com>, Ted Neible <tne...@austin.ibm.com> writes:
}
} >Is A&M the training ground for the next generation of "jack booted thugs?"
} >What is up with those core-heads? I remember one of them drawing a sabre
} >on an SMU cheerleader.
}
} What really happened in the incident after the game? The KLBJ play-by-play
} man said that 30 cadets pounded a UT student for trying to run onto the field,
} then described the situation as 'turning very ugly' and 'needing police' when
} the cadets positioned themselves in front of the UT band.
}
I wasn't at the game, but from published & personal stories, here's what
I've been able to piece together. First some background: Kyle field is a
memorial to fallen Aggies and only football teams and performing bands are
allowed on the field without being "guilty" of desecrating the memorial.
Each game a squad of senior corps members are assigned the "duty" of
guarding the field. It is also state property, therefore possesion of
alcohol is a criminal offense. Now for what I understand happened:
As is usual, just prior to the end of the game, the announcer reminded
everyone to please repsect the memorial and stay off the field after the
game was over. He did this no-less than 5 times (according to one source
there at the game). At the end of the game, several "drunken" t.u.
students attempted to take to the field to celebrate. At the south end of
the field, several corps members linked arms together & successfully and
peacefully moved the U.T. fans at that end from the field without
incident. However, at the north end zone, a larger group of t.u. fans
charged the University police & corps members who were guarding the field
and telling the to please stay off. Several broke through and a brawl
broke out. At this point (of course) it gets confusing, but several
things are known to have happened: several fights broke out, one couple
went out to the middle of the field and proceeded to "fornicate" on the
field (they kept their clothes on but the disrespect was clearly in
evidence), and (unfortunately) several corps members beat a poor soul
senseless, including kicking him once down. Unfortunately, I am once
again ashamed of the keepers of our traditions for having behaved so
badly.
Now for other things comments on the game:
1) You can tell that poor-sport quarterback of yours that I have zero
respect for him. I had a healthy respect for the team until his refusal
to shake the hand of A&M players after the game. You have to give respect
to get it.
2) I have little respect for your coach for allowing a seriously injured
player to continue playing & possibly further injuring himself, possibly
permanently. Guess he just didn't think any of his other quarterbacks
could play worth a darn.
--
Jeff Janner | jwja...@tamu.edu
Windows 95 is like a Centauri. It's very stylish, relatively powerless, tends to fall over a lot, and has it's tentacularities everywhere where they don't belong.
vince
Charles Herrick <charles...@cyberdigm.com> wrote:
>Gig 'em (next year)
Ah, now I understand(except for why an aggie would move to Austin).
Odd that the aggies use a large piece of carpet to represent their
war dead. Maybe you exes can finance a wall for them instead.
vince(The University - '84)
Mark A. Breland
In article <jwjanner-061...@ppp19-05.rns.tamu.edu>, jwja...@tamu.edu (Jeffrey W. Janner) writes:
[snip]
>1) You can tell that poor-sport quarterback of yours that I have zero
>respect for him. I had a healthy respect for the team until his refusal
>to shake the hand of A&M players after the game. You have to give respect
>to get it.
...and considering that Mr. Lowrey from a&m first told James Brown that
UT's win was a "fluke", and that Texas was "lucky to have won", I don't
blame Brown at all for refusing to shake his hand. This after *Brown*
was approaching Lowrey to shake his hand in the first place! As you say,
"you have to give respect to get it."
>2) I have little respect for your coach for allowing a seriously injured
>player to continue playing & possibly further injuring himself, possibly
>permanently. Guess he just didn't think any of his other quarterbacks
>could play worth a darn.
...and didn't one Leeland McElroy continue playing in the fourth quarter
with a possible broken collarbone? Guess you have little respect for
Coach R. C. Slocum too...
charles...@cyberdigm.com
writes:
>
> In article <DJ67K...@txnews.amd.com>, charles...@cyberdigm.com
(Charles Herrick) writes:
>
> [snip]
>
> >2. They asked for it, they got it. Gig 'em.
>
> Somehow I fail to find any honor in the beating of an individual by
> 20-30 undisciplined cadets.
Hey, when you can't find any honor in respecting someone else's
cherished traditions, or in honoring men who died so you
can be free to order that double mocha cappuchino with
2% froth, your statement doesn't surprise me.
> Such officers...
>
> Such gentlemen...
Right. Tell us all about your courage and convictions...
Or, did you really believe the last 30+ years of
Liberal, Feminist extremist hype that holds that
the ultimate man is one without cojones?
--
My comments above are offered solely as my personal opinions.
I speak for no one but myself at all times.
My opinions are not to be construed as those of CyberDigm Systems.
Rob Jones
> From: vi...@io.com (vince)
> Newsgroups: austin.general
> Date: 6 Dec 1995 17:20:28 -0600
> Organization: Illuminati Online
>
> In article <DJ32L...@txnews.amd.com>,
> Charles Herrick <charles...@cyberdigm.com> wrote:
>
> >Gig 'em (next year)
>
> Ah, now I understand(except for why an aggie would move to Austin).
Well, to keep from living on Houston, of course :)
> Odd that the aggies use a large piece of carpet to represent their
> war dead. Maybe you exes can finance a wall for them instead.
I take offense at this. It's more than "a large piece of carpet". Yes,
I'm an old Ag and, yes, I do live and work here in Austin. It's great,
I love it here. But I digress...don't worry, I'll clean it up later.
Many years ago, Texas A&C football players went off to war. The College
still fielded a football team, and did pretty good. A few years later,
many of those football players who went to war didn't come back. The
end result is dedicating the field they used to play on as a memorial.
No, it's not the only memorial. There is the Memorial Student Center
among others.
I was there for the SMU-Saber incident and was not impressed at all by
the way the Corp was represented. And, after the recent game where we
were outscored *chuckle*, I felt that sickening feeling again.
A&M has some wonderful traditions. And it has some outdated ones that
I doubt will ever go away. Do I condone what happened? Not at all.
I'ld just like to ask people to look, if they could, at the good side
of A&M and remember that.
>
> vince(The University - '84)
-Rob
--
Rob Jones KC5KSE
AeroTek/Motorola Amiga's Rule :)
Mark A. Breland
In article <DJ75uF....@tpoint.net>, charles...@cyberdigm.com writes:
>In article <DJ6Eu...@mcc.com> bre...@photon.mcc.com (Mark A. Breland)
>writes:
>>
>> 20-30 undisciplined cadets.
>
>Hey, when you can't find any honor in respecting someone else's
>cherished traditions, or in honoring men who died so you
>can be free to order that double mocha cappuchino with
>2% froth, your statement doesn't surprise me.
Somehow I fail to find any honor in the pursuit of a "two wrongs make
a right" philosophy... You're advocating the propriety of assembling
a superior force to physically beat people who fail to measure up to
your subjective standard. Such a mob mentality has no place in
civilized society. So lacking any defense of the honor in that action,
all you can do is point your finger and try to mock me. Sorry to burst
your bubble there, big guy, but I don't drink cappuchino and you don't
have the market cornered in honor, respect, nor civility.
>> Such officers...
>>
>> Such gentlemen...
>
>Right. Tell us all about your courage and convictions...
>Or, did you really believe the last 30+ years of
>Liberal, Feminist extremist hype that holds that
>the ultimate man is one without cojones?
My courage and convictions aren't at issue here, but suffice to say
that they are sufficient for me to pursue the honarable course and
decline to join with a mob and render bodily harm to an individual.
It takes a considerable amount more to stand by one's convictions
and principles than to lapse into animalistic rage of the moment.
So does that make you want to gather up your vaunted cadets and come
beat me now too?
Jeong H. Han
> non-Aggies do _NOT_ walk on Kyle Field.
yeah, only boots with sheep shit on
them can respectfully walk on kyle field.
> students walked out onto Kyle Field.
like the aggies walked on memorial stadium last year? revenge is too
sweet for your mouth, i guess.
> By the way, Kyle Field, along with the grass
> around the student center, are dedicated as
> memorials to soldiers how died in defense
> of America in past wars.
so to commemorate the field of fallen soldiers, they gang up on innocent
fans. wow, such respect!
oh well, i hope the aggies have fun in san antonio (without the swc
championship and the top-rated defense and without their home-winning streak)
poor babies...
chewbacca
Jeong H. Han
>
> respect for him. I had a healthy respect for the team until his refusal
> to shake the hand of A&M players after the game. You have to give respect
> to get it.
the only reason that james brown did not shake the hand of the loser was
because the loser mentioned that the longhorns kicking as was "just a fluke".
brown was the one to approach him and offer the handshake. however, once
the loser mentioned that, james withdrew his hand. suprised he didn't do
much more.
>
> 2) I have little respect for your coach for allowing a seriously injured
> player to continue playing & possibly further injuring himself, possibly
> permanently. Guess he just didn't think any of his other quarterbacks
> could play worth a darn.
still bitter about getting beat by a quaterback who was only 75% healthy?
if you watch the game closer, your defense was the one trying to irritate
the injury by intentionally rolling over the ankle repeatedly (the sore
losers that they are).
GO HORNS!
chewbacca
Ted Neible
>
> In article <49vgpl$1...@boris.eden.com>, pjpr...@eden.com wrote:
>
> } In <30C32B...@austin.ibm.com>, Ted Neible <tne...@austin.ibm.com> writes:
> }
>
> I wasn't at the game, but from published & personal stories, here's what
> I've been able to piece together. First some background: Kyle field is a
> memorial to fallen Aggies and only football teams and performing bands are
> allowed on the field without being "guilty" of desecrating the memorial.
> Each game a squad of senior corps members are assigned the "duty" of
> guarding the field. It is also state property, therefore possesion of
> alcohol is a criminal offense. Now for what I understand happened:
There's a news flash: Someone had the gall to drink at a football game
and carry their overzealous celebration onto the field. I'll bet no
corps-head has ever been guilty of that. Are you contending that this
is justification for taking a beating at the hands of cadets, some of
whom may have embibed as well?
Jeffrey W. Janner continues:
>
> As is usual, just prior to the end of the game, the announcer reminded
> everyone to please repsect the memorial and stay off the field after the
> game was over. He did this no-less than 5 times (according to one source
> there at the game). At the end of the game, several "drunken" t.u.
> students attempted to take to the field to celebrate. At the south end of
> the field, several corps members linked arms together & successfully and
> peacefully moved the U.T. fans at that end from the field without
> incident. However, at the north end zone, a larger group of t.u. fans
> charged the University police & corps members who were guarding the field
> and telling the to please stay off. Several broke through and a brawl
> broke out. At this point (of course) it gets confusing, but several
> things are known to have happened: several fights broke out, one couple
> went out to the middle of the field and proceeded to "fornicate" on the
> field (they kept their clothes on but the disrespect was clearly in
> evidence), and (unfortunately) several corps members beat a poor soul
> senseless, including kicking him once down. Unfortunately, I am once
> again ashamed of the keepers of our traditions for having behaved so
> badly.
>
One man's disrespect is another's celebration. When I go to a game, I have
the knowledge that the field is a stupid place to be after a game has
completed and therefore avoid it. Unfortunately, not everyone is of the
same mind. Unfortunately, not everyone is aware of the hallowed nature of
Kyle Field. It's OK to fling chickens around on it at half time, as long
as it is a corps-head that is doing the tossing. Nobody deserves to get
beat up for trodding on the field. This was not an unforseen situation.
Somebody had better be on somebody else's carpet explaining the lack of
preperation.
Jeffrey W. Janner concludes:
> Now for other things comments on the game:
>
Typical poor loser drivel snipped...
> --
> Jeff Janner | jwja...@tamu.edu
> Windows 95 is like a Centauri. It's very stylish, relatively powerless, tends to fall over a lot, and has it's tentacularities everywhere where they don't bel
Attempts to regain lost victories after the fact by pummeling the
opposition's drunken fans is a sorry victory indeed.
Ted Neible
>
> Right. Tell us all about your courage and convictions...
> Or, did you really believe the last 30+ years of
> Liberal, Feminist extremist hype that holds that
> the ultimate man is one without cojones?
>
> My comments above are offered solely as my personal opinions.
> I speak for no one but myself at all times.
> My opinions are not to be construed as those of CyberDigm Systems.
> Right to copy my comments in any form other than netnews and email
> is expressly forbidden, including any form of print or visual
> journalism. This restriction includes any part of my statements
Where did that come from? I thought the thread was about the justification
for the beating of ignorant Longhorn fans.
Funt!
> [Is A&M] still bitter about getting beat by
> a quaterback who was only 75% healthy?
I heard that Brown was only 72.4% healthy. My god, man, from where do you
get your information? Sheesh.
--
Funt!-O-Matic:
"A convoluted Web site of seedy pop
culture psychosis and toilet humor."
http://www.eden.com/~funt
T. Damron
In article <DJ75uF....@tpoint.net>, charles...@cyberdigm.com writes:
> In article <DJ6Eu...@mcc.com> bre...@photon.mcc.com (Mark A. Breland)
> writes:
> >
> (Charles Herrick) writes:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > >2. They asked for it, they got it. Gig 'em.
> >
> > 20-30 undisciplined cadets.
>
> Hey, when you can't find any honor in respecting someone else's
> cherished traditions, or in honoring men who died so you
> can be free to order that double mocha cappuchino with
> 2% froth, your statement doesn't surprise me.
>
I am a bit confused as to what exactly the cherished tradition actually is
regarding Kyle field. Non-Aggies walk on the field all the time during
track meets and high school football games held their. Even the visiting
band is allowed to walk on the field. I think the tradition in question is
more accurately described as "Fans of the visiting team should leave town
quickly and quietly following an Aggie defeat."
Tim Damron
Steven Drinovsky
<snip>
> Y'all need to get your facts straight.
I think so, a guy was beaten for walking - NOTHING ELSE!
>
> It is a time-honored tradition that
> non-Aggies do _NOT_ walk on Kyle Field.
I guess that is how automated teller machine university got the 31 game
winning streak, the other team had to play without walking on the field!
>
> At the game, the announcer made an announcement
> making that crystal clear.
What did he say, "Stay off the field of the corp will beat the
shit out of you."
>
> Then, to provoke a situation, several t.u.
> students walked out onto Kyle Field.
Oh, I am in shock, gasp. I didn't think Tulane was at the game?
But, I guess after they walked on the field, the UT students
thought it was safe.
>
> By the way, Kyle Field, along with the grass
> around the student center, are dedicated as
> memorials to soldiers how died in defense
> of America in past wars.
>
> 1. Just goes to show you the level of disrespect
> to which some t.u. students are willing to
> descend
What's with Tulane University?
>
> 2. They asked for it, they got it. Gig 'em.
> Kind of makes you wonder why things don't
> work this way elsewhere in American, doesn't it?
What an idiot. Do you have a brain?
>
> ---
> My comments above are offered solely as my personal opinions.
I sure hope so, otherwise the human race is doomed.
Let's face it, the only reason why this happened was because you
lost. Nothing about a memorial, nothing about disrespect, it
was because they are sore losers.
Let's make it a memorial to soldiers who died in defense of America
in past wars for UT to beat atm, then we can beat up aggies and
call it disrespectfull if we ever lose to then again.
Steven
--
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
+ Steven Drinovsky sdrin...@wic.tdh.state.tx.us +
+ Texas Department of Health, home (512) 453-2317 +
+ WIC Automation work (512) 458-7111x3476 +
+ Just say no to Win95; Linux Yes Pager 800-624-7243 PIN#145-9112 +
+ My opinions are my own and by no means represent the state of Texas. +
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Copyright (C) 1995 by Steven Drinovsky.
vince
>non-Aggies do _NOT_ walk on Kyle Field.
Perhaps, but there is no law that I know of stating that non-aggies
cannot walk on the Kyle astroturf. There IS a law against assault.
Maybe you can get Phil Gramm to get a new law passed stating that
aggies can beat the hell out of visiting fans. Until then, may the
glorious Longhorn victory stick in your throat like a particularly
pungent vomit burp.
vince
Joyful!
= Charles Herrick <charles...@cyberdigm.com> wrote:
= >Gig 'em (next year)
=
= Ah, now I understand(except for why an aggie would move to Austin).
No real jobs in B/CS. Houston's weather and traffic suck. Dallas is too
pompous. That leaves Austin. =)
Joy
/ "I can show you the world, shining, shimmering, splendid." \
\ "A Whole New World" - Prince Ali, _Aladdin_ /
/ Joyce Fitz Ruff -- Fluff Queen -- Disney Chemical Addict \
\ Motorola, RISC Applications, Austin, TX /
pjpr...@eden.com
>In article 1...@boris.eden.com, pjpr...@eden.com () writes:
>> In <30C32B...@austin.ibm.com>, Ted Neible <tne...@austin.ibm.com> writes:
>>
>> >What is up with those core-heads? I remember one of them drawing a sabre
>> >on an SMU cheerleader.
>>
>> What really happened in the incident after the game? The KLBJ play-by-play
>> man said that 30 cadets pounded a UT student for trying to run onto the field,
>> then described the situation as 'turning very ugly' and 'needing police' when
>> the cadets positioned themselves in front of the UT band.
> Rumor has it that swords were drawn Sat. If the aggie corp is indicative
> of the people wanting to carry concealed weapons, I can see why Lars is
> concerned. :^)
You and me both. Now if that violence had been done by homeless men or
a teen gang, Herrick would have been frothing at the mouth for the right
to blow them to kingdom come. Take that same savagary and put it in a
khaki uniform with spit-shined shoes, and it's ok.
<snap!>
I've got it! He's queer for those uniforms! :)
Joyful!
= I wasn't at the game, but from published & personal stories, here's what
= I've been able to piece together. First some background: Kyle field is a
= memorial to fallen Aggies and only football teams and performing bands are
= allowed on the field without being "guilty" of desecrating the memorial.
= Each game a squad of senior corps members are assigned the "duty" of
= guarding the field. It is also state property, therefore possesion of
= alcohol is a criminal offense. Now for what I understand happened:
And how many members are in a squad? Was it really a good enough
"barrier" to keep others off the field? Apparently not.
= As is usual, just prior to the end of the game, the announcer reminded
= everyone to please repsect the memorial and stay off the field after the
= game was over. He did this no-less than 5 times (according to one source
= there at the game). At the end of the game, several "drunken" t.u.
= students attempted to take to the field to celebrate.
Perhaps the announcement should be made earlier in the game, and more
often, such as the beginning, between quarters, and at halftime, so that
those who were drunk by the end of the game might have heard it earlier?
= At the south end of
= the field, several corps members linked arms together & successfully and
= peacefully moved the U.T. fans at that end from the field without
= incident.
That's good to know. At least they do seem to have some plan for crowd control.
= However, at the north end zone, a larger group of t.u. fans
= charged the University police & corps members who were guarding the field
= and telling the to please stay off. Several broke through and a brawl
= broke out. At this point (of course) it gets confusing, but several
= things are known to have happened: several fights broke out, one couple
= went out to the middle of the field and proceeded to "fornicate" on the
= field (they kept their clothes on but the disrespect was clearly in
= evidence), and (unfortunately) several corps members beat a poor soul
= senseless, including kicking him once down. Unfortunately, I am once
= again ashamed of the keepers of our traditions for having behaved so
= badly.
Yes, that poor behavior reflects badly on the corps, the university, and
even the traditions they try to uphold. Here's hoping they can control
their tempers next time.
Joy, Aggie '91
pjpr...@eden.com
And you, you tiny phool, have you forgotten to apply the mass spectrum
discounter allowance?
Sheeesh! I THOUGHT SO! :|
David L. Crow
place. By the end of the game, our group had made our way to about
the 10th row, so we had a good view of the situation.
That out of the way, let me make some corrections.
jwja...@tamu.edu (Jeffrey W. Janner) writes:
>I wasn't at the game, but from published & personal stories, here's what
>I've been able to piece together. First some background: Kyle field is a
>memorial to fallen Aggies and only football teams and performing bands are
>allowed on the field without being "guilty" of desecrating the memorial.
Are you aware that the stadium is open to the public when no event
is scheduled? Anyone in the world can use the field as they wish if
it is not already being used. It appears that it is only a memorial
worth fighting for when it is convenient (like at football games and
the Friday night pep rallies).
As the Corps was gang-tackling single idiot Longhorn fans who were
able to break through the porous Corps blockade, there were small
children (elementary school age) tossing footballs on the field. The
Corps didn't seem to find the need to gang tackle them.
The Corps reaction was extremely selective and extremely brutal.
>Each game a squad of senior corps members are assigned the "duty" of
>guarding the field. It is also state property, therefore possesion of
>alcohol is a criminal offense. Now for what I understand happened:
I'm curious about this supposed law. Alcohol is allowed in dorms,
in the Texas Union, and is provided to Longhorn Foundation Members on
top of the Neuhaus-Royal Athletic Complex during football games and in
the Orange and White Room in the Erwin Center during basketball games.
Should all of these people be taken to jail?
>As is usual, just prior to the end of the game, the announcer reminded
>everyone to please repsect the memorial and stay off the field after the
>game was over. He did this no-less than 5 times (according to one source
>there at the game).
I heard it no more than three times. At no time was the mention of
a memorial mentioned. The announcer did not mention a reason for his
request, only that fans should refrain from entering the field after
the game.
>At the end of the game, several "drunken" t.u.
>students attempted to take to the field to celebrate. At the south end of
>the field, several corps members linked arms together & successfully and
>peacefully moved the U.T. fans at that end from the field without
>incident.
Without incident? Did you watch the game on TV? I watched the tape
when I got home and there was an incident between Mike Adams, the
Texas cheerleaders, the TAMU cheerleaders and some members of the Corps.
>However, at the north end zone, a larger group of t.u. fans
>charged the University police & corps members who were guarding the field
>and telling the to please stay off.
The KK had absolutely nothing to do with this. Both the KK and the
B/CS police backed up and guarded the goalpost. This was their only
concern. The Corps acted all by themselves on this one.
>Several broke through and a brawl
>broke out. At this point (of course) it gets confusing, but several
>things are known to have happened: several fights broke out, one couple
>went out to the middle of the field and proceeded to "fornicate" on the
>field (they kept their clothes on but the disrespect was clearly in
>evidence), and (unfortunately) several corps members beat a poor soul
>senseless, including kicking him once down. Unfortunately, I am once
>again ashamed of the keepers of our traditions for having behaved so
>badly.
I did not see anyone fornicating, but I don't deny that it could
have happened. What broke out was not "fights". It was 30-50 Corps
members gang tackling a single Texas fan, continually slamming his
head into the ground, and kicking and punching him. I use the term
"him" generically, as the Corps was not sex-selective on who they
attacked. An ABC camera-man reported to Jeff Ward that a Corps member
was seen dragging a female by her hair.
There is plenty of blame to be put on both sides of this story.
>1) You can tell that poor-sport quarterback of yours that I have zero
>respect for him. I had a healthy respect for the team until his refusal
>to shake the hand of A&M players after the game. You have to give respect
>to get it.
Gene Lowery (the TAMC player) told James Brown "It was a fluke. You
got lucky. It will never happen again". James decided not to shake
his hand. There was plenty of poor-sportsmanship to go around.
>2) I have little respect for your coach for allowing a seriously injured
>player to continue playing & possibly further injuring himself, possibly
>permanently. Guess he just didn't think any of his other quarterbacks
>could play worth a darn.
James Brown told the coach that he could play. James Brown would
not have allowed anyone else to play. It was an important game for
him and he was not going to miss it. Mackovic has plenty of
confidence in his other quarterbacks as can be seen in the Baylor game
where Richard Walton played the entire game. It appears that James
did just fine. Much better than a very healthy Corey Pullig.
--
------ Texas! It's like a whole other country. ------
David L. Crow cr...@tivoli.com
http://www.cactus.org/~crow/
David L. Crow
>2. They asked for it, they got it. Gig 'em.
>Kind of makes you wonder why things don't
>work this way elsewhere in American, doesn't it?
They do in LA. Just ask Rodney King.
Albert Nurick
charles...@cyberdigm.com (Charles Herrick) wrote:
>Y'all need to get your facts straight.
>
>It is a time-honored tradition that
>non-Aggies do _NOT_ walk on Kyle Field.
Aggies are big on *their* own traditions, but show little respect for other
institutions, IMO. Many seem to take great pleasure in their oh-so-clever use
of "t.u." to refer to The University of Texas at Austin.
>2. They asked for it, they got it. Gig 'em.
>Kind of makes you wonder why things don't
>work this way elsewhere in American, doesn't it?
I'm thankful that the Aggie behavior we witnessed isn't widespread. If
someone is breaking a law, bring 'em to justice. Vigilante action isn't a
good solution... especially when the infraction is "walking on some grass that
I don't want you to walk on, but it's OK if I walk on".
IMO, we're dealing with a bunch of hypocritical vigilante thugs. If I were an
Aggie, I'd be ashamed, not proud.
| Albert Nurick | "In case of doubt, decide in |
| alb...@data.net | favor of what is correct." |
| http://www.tech.net/~albert | |
| http://www.tech.net | - Karl Kraus |
Albert Nurick
ro...@ursula.sps.seasick.com (Rob Jones) wrote:
>A&M has some wonderful traditions. And it has some outdated ones that
>I doubt will ever go away. Do I condone what happened? Not at all.
>I'ld just like to ask people to look, if they could, at the good side
>of A&M and remember that.
Even though I attended UT, I am impressed with much about A&M. It's a fine
university, with many noble traditions.
I just wish the thuggery (in the name of tradition) would be dealt with for
what it is, and not feebly defended by those who see the world through
maroon-colored glasses.
Charles Herrick
bre...@photon.mcc.com (Mark A. Breland) wrote:
>
>In article <DJ75uF....@tpoint.net>, charles...@cyberdigm.com
writes:
>>In article <DJ6Eu...@mcc.com> bre...@photon.mcc.com (Mark A. Breland)
>>writes:
>>>
>>> 20-30 undisciplined cadets.
>>
>>Hey, when you can't find any honor in respecting someone else's
>>cherished traditions, or in honoring men who died so you
>>can be free to order that double mocha cappuchino with
>>2% froth, your statement doesn't surprise me.
>
>a right" philosophy... You're advocating the propriety of assembling
>a superior force to physically beat people who fail to measure up to
>your subjective standard.
no, just those who, after being asked not to trash a memorial/tradition
considered virtually sacred by others to whose "home" they were invited,
chose to deliberately disrespect the request.
Lots of folk don't measure up to my standards. I reserve a physical beating,
not for those who don't measure up, but for those who
actively and aggressively chose to provoke said beating.
>Such a mob mentality has no place in
>civilized society.
A group of Aggies beating the crap out of some t.u students,
who, after being asked not to disrespect a specific tradition,
chose to do so, is not called a mob. They're called men.
>So lacking any defense of the honor in that action,
>all you can do is point your finger and try to mock me. Sorry to burst
>your bubble there, big guy, but I don't drink cappuchino and you don't
>have the market cornered in honor, respect, nor civility.
>
>>> Such officers...
>>>
>>> Such gentlemen...
>>
>>Right. Tell us all about your courage and convictions...
>>Or, did you really believe the last 30+ years of
>>Liberal, Feminist extremist hype that holds that
>>the ultimate man is one without cojones?
>
>My courage and convictions aren't at issue here, but suffice to say
>that they are sufficient for me to pursue the honarable course and
>decline to join with a mob and render bodily harm to an individual.
Once again, they were not a mob. The t.u. students running onto
Kyle field to deliberately disrespect others were the mob.
Those who beat the crap out of the mob were men.
>It takes a considerable amount more to stand by one's convictions
>and principles than to lapse into animalistic rage of the moment.
You've somehow convinced yourself that you don't have to defend
your honor. How convenient. I dismiss this argument out of hand.
>So does that make you want to gather up your vaunted cadets and come
>beat me now too?
no. unless you want to run across Kyle Field. But then, if you do,
I don't think I'll need to be there to see justice done.
Look, think of this analog.
Let's say you're a member of a Bhuddist sect, and convert a room into
your house as a shrine where you worship. Now, lets say you invite me
to your home for dinner and entertainment, and during dinner, you
tell me that to run into your shrine/room with Birkenstocks on is considered
highly disrespectful of your religious sect's beliefs/traditions.
So, right after you feed me dinner and entertain me, I jump up and gleefully
run into your shrine, wearing shoes, and taunting you about it.
Get it, sir?
---
My comments above are offered solely as my personal opinions.
I speak for no one but myself at all times.
Right to copy my comments in any form other than netnews and email
is expressly forbidden, including any form of print or visual
journalism. This restriction includes any part of my statements
Charles Herrick
"Jeong H. Han" <jeon...@happy.cc.utexas.edu> wrote:
>> It is a time-honored tradition that
>> non-Aggies do _NOT_ walk on Kyle Field.
>
>them can respectfully walk on kyle field.
>
>
>sweet for your mouth, i guess.
the two incidents don't equate, even in your
tea-soaked mind.
>> By the way, Kyle Field, along with the grass
>> around the student center, are dedicated as
>> memorials to soldiers how died in defense
>> of America in past wars.
>
>so to commemorate the field of fallen soldiers, they gang up on innocent
>fans. wow, such respect!
The fans were not innocent. they were a mob, and guilty
as hell. The tradition had respectfully been explained to them
before the end of the game, they were politely asked not
to disrespect the tradition/memorial during the game, and
chose to start the entire incident by running on the field
after the game, taunting the aggie corp.
Better take a note. Aggieland isn't Austin, and if you
think you're going to run onto Kyle Field and all you're
going to get is a dirty look, think again.
Charles Herrick
>In article <DJ32L...@txnews.amd.com>,
>Charles Herrick <charles...@cyberdigm.com> wrote:
>
>>Gig 'em (next year)
>
>Ah, now I understand(except for why an aggie would move to Austin).
>war dead. Maybe you exes can finance a wall for them instead.
Sorry, pal, but there are no ex-aggies. Once and aggie, always
an aggie. It's your school that takes such pride in calling
yourselves ex-something.
>vince(The University - '84)
Therr is only one University _OF_ Texas,
and it's located in College Station.
Charles Herrick
Ted Neible <tne...@austin.ibm.com> wrote:
>Jeffrey W. Janner wrote:
>>
>> In article <49vgpl$1...@boris.eden.com>, pjpr...@eden.com wrote:
>>
>>
>> I wasn't at the game, but from published & personal stories, here's what
>> I've been able to piece together. First some background: Kyle field is a
>> memorial to fallen Aggies and only football teams and performing bands are
>> allowed on the field without being "guilty" of desecrating the memorial.
>> guarding the field. It is also state property, therefore possesion of
>> alcohol is a criminal offense. Now for what I understand happened:
>
>and carry their overzealous celebration onto the field. I'll bet no
>corps-head has ever been guilty of that. Are you contending that this
>is justification for taking a beating at the hands of cadets,
Yes
>some of
>whom may have embibed as well?
Read the part about possession above.
>
>Jeffrey W. Janner continues:
>>
>> As is usual, just prior to the end of the game, the announcer reminded
>> everyone to please repsect the memorial and stay off the field after the
>> game was over. He did this no-less than 5 times (according to one source
>> there at the game). At the end of the game, several "drunken" t.u.
>> students attempted to take to the field to celebrate. At the south end of
>> the field, several corps members linked arms together & successfully and
>> peacefully moved the U.T. fans at that end from the field without
>> incident. However, at the north end zone, a larger group of t.u. fans
>> charged the University police & corps members who were guarding the field
>> and telling the to please stay off. Several broke through and a brawl
>> broke out. At this point (of course) it gets confusing, but several
>> things are known to have happened: several fights broke out, one couple
>> went out to the middle of the field and proceeded to "fornicate" on the
>> field (they kept their clothes on but the disrespect was clearly in
>> evidence), and (unfortunately) several corps members beat a poor soul
>> senseless, including kicking him once down. Unfortunately, I am once
>> again ashamed of the keepers of our traditions for having behaved so
>> badly.
Yeah, well, I for one am not.
>One man's disrespect is another's celebration. When I go to a game, I have
>the knowledge that the field is a stupid place to be after a game has
>completed and therefore avoid it. Unfortunately, not everyone is of the
>same mind. Unfortunately, not everyone is aware of the hallowed nature of
>Kyle Field.
Did you read the part above where the announcer at the game
announced the tradition and politely asked that the memorial
not be disrespected? You seem to be able to read, but then maybe not.
>It's OK to fling chickens around on it at half time, as long
>as it is a corps-head that is doing the tossing. Nobody deserves to get
>beat up for trodding on the field.
They were not beat for trodding on the field. They were beat because
they formed a mob and deliberately ignored polite requests not to
disrespect a cherished, highly valued tradition/memorial.
For that, they got less than they deserved.
>This was not an unforseen situation.
Knowing the abysmal moral level of some t.u. students,
underscored by the ready willingness of some ex-t.u.'ers
to justify their behavior, next time it most likely
will not be unforseen. It's just that no one until
now really had a clear picture of just how low
some t.u.'ers would sink.
Ray Shea
Charles Herrick <charles...@cyberdigm.com> wrote:
>
>Sorry, pal, but there are no ex-aggies. Once and aggie, always
>an aggie.
Kind of like alcoholics. There are only recovering aggies, or aggies
who have yet to admit they have a problem.
Charles, we can't help you until you realize you need help.
--
Ray Shea DoD#372 | "Content is overrated."
Infosleuth Project | --www.suck.com
sh...@mcc.com -- MCC |
sh...@eden.com -- home |
Steven Drinovsky
> <a bunch of stuff that I will not even repost>
How could someone with a college education be such a simpleton?
I always thought unsupported, unjustifiable, and illogical views
such as the ones Charles has was a sign of a uneducated person.
I always thought you could get a good education from tamu, but
I seem to be wrong. Think you Charles and the Corp for changing
my opinion of tamu. I am still glad that my acceptance letter from
tamu went straight from the mail to the trash.
Steven
Longest winning streak on Kyle Field: Texas, 1.
Enjoy the Alamo bowl, and be lucky you even made it to a bowl.
Final SWC standings:
1. Texas
2. Texas Tech
3. Baylor
4. texas a&m
Check out these funny sites:
http://espnet.sportszone.com/editors/ncf/columns/mbfb0717.html
http://espnet.sportszone.com/editors/ncf/features/0730aggie.html
Mark A. Breland
In article <DJ9x1...@txnews.amd.com>, charles...@cyberdigm.com (Charles Herrick) writes:
[rationalizations for beatings by mobs deleted]
>Get it, sir?
Nope, thankfully I don't...
jack newton
> Knowing the abysmal moral level of some t.u. students,
> underscored by the ready willingness of some ex-t.u.'ers
> to justify their behavior......
Huh? Kind of like how you're defending the gang of
immature thugs from A&M?
And in a different post Charles wrote:
>Frankly, I'd say your behavior, along with your arrogant,
>petulant,
>immature behavior are more than adequate evidence for an
>argument that
>only an idiot would do business with ....
Anyone else see the "pot calling the kettle black?"
Betcha Charles was proud of those Citadel guys whooping it up
when Faulkner left. I can't speak for anyone else, but the
incidents at the game did nothing to enhance the reputation of
either university.
Frank W. Douma
Charles Herrick <charles...@cyberdigm.com> wrote:
>
>no, just those who, after being asked not to trash a memorial/tradition
>considered virtually sacred by others to whose "home" they were invited,
>chose to deliberately disrespect the request.
>
>Lots of folk don't measure up to my standards. I reserve a physical beating,
>not for those who don't measure up, but for those who
>actively and aggressively chose to provoke said beating.
>
>who, after being asked not to disrespect a specific tradition,
>chose to do so, is not called a mob. They're called men.
>
>Kyle field to deliberately disrespect others were the mob.
>
>Those who beat the crap out of the mob were men.
>
>>It takes a considerable amount more to stand by one's convictions
>>and principles than to lapse into animalistic rage of the moment.
>
>You've somehow convinced yourself that you don't have to defend
>your honor. How convenient. I dismiss this argument out of hand.
>
>>So does that make you want to gather up your vaunted cadets and come
>>beat me now too?
>
>no. unless you want to run across Kyle Field. But then, if you do,
>I don't think I'll need to be there to see justice done.
>
>Look, think of this analog.
>Let's say you're a member of a Bhuddist sect, and convert a room into
>your house as a shrine where you worship. Now, lets say you invite me
>to your home for dinner and entertainment, and during dinner, you
>tell me that to run into your shrine/room with Birkenstocks on is considered
>highly disrespectful of your religious sect's beliefs/traditions.
>So, right after you feed me dinner and entertain me, I jump up and gleefully
>run into your shrine, wearing shoes, and taunting you about it.
>
>Get it, sir?
>
Charles,
You are speaking like butt head.
Some thoughts for you, in no particular order:
Tradition or not, Kyle field is not anyone's home.
Don't create analogies using a home as a comparison,
it won't fly. It's a public place, all the time.
You may not like that, but that's the way it is.
----------
"Sacred" is and always has been in the eye of the beholder.
A whole mess of people, including a lot of Aggies, have died
and suffered to ensure that no one can force their idea of
sacred onto anyone else.
----------
As I understand it, except during football games
(including just prior and just after), anyone, at
virtually anytime, can walk, run, or stand on
Kyle field. If this is the case, then
basically you have a highly situational standard
for honoring your war dead, if honoring your war
dead means limiting access to the surface of Kyle
field.
(Correct me about access to the surface of Kyle field
if I'm wrong, I'd like to know.)
----------
Given that Kyle field wouldn't exist except to play
out competitions and rivalries, the use of taunts and
the deprecation of opposing traditions shouldn't ever be
surprising within its confines. In fact, taunting, deprecating
signs and such are EXPECTED within the context of a
football game, wouldn't you say? After all, you folks
sing a song about "sawing Varsity's horns off" and mis-state
the name of UT, all in the name of deprecation and taunting!
I know, how about I warn you that if you say "tu" in my presence
I get to beat you. Now, you think that reasonable?
----------
Nothing I ever SAY to you will EVER legally give you the right
to do so much as lay a finger on me. Your only reason in _this_
context to touch me would be if you could prove I was trespassing
on Kyle field. Never happen. It's a public place, and never
more public than the night of a football game. The folks inside
paid $$ to get in, so you can't say they shouldn't be there.
----------
As for _beating_ me because you don't like me walking in a certain
place, you touch me without damn good legal grounds,
I own your ass, both in criminal and civil court.
Especially when I've paid you to get to your certain place.
----------
Given your ethics, I suppose I can declare that meeting my
stare is an insult, so I can do as I please, including being
"manly" and beating the shit out of you. As long as I at least
warn you first, right?
----------
Think about it,
Frank D.
"Concealed carry. It's not just for criminals anymore."
I alone am responsible for the above.
Joyful!
= Charles Herrick wrote:
= > <a bunch of stuff that I will not even repost>
=
= How could someone with a college education be such a simpleton?
= I always thought unsupported, unjustifiable, and illogical views
= such as the ones Charles has was a sign of a uneducated person.
= I always thought you could get a good education from tamu, but
= I seem to be wrong. Think you Charles and the Corp for changing
= my opinion of tamu. I am still glad that my acceptance letter from
= tamu went straight from the mail to the trash.
While I don't agree with what Charles wrote, and feel that the violence
committed by members of the corps was unacceptable, I do want to take you
to task for thinking that one cannot get a good education from Texas A&M.
The quality of the education is in the attitude of the student. I, for
one, went to A&M for the education, not for the football team or the
traditions or the corps. And I am proud to have my diploma and class ring
from that university, because it _is_ a good place to get a good
education.
FWIW, I think some of those "traditions" are way out-dated, and that the
corps gets too much credit and attention when it is now 1/20th of the
student body rather than filling the whole school as it did originally. I
think some of those traditions ought to be rethought and modified to
handle new situations and circumstances. They need to let go of the past
where appropriate. I really do not understand the total Aggie mindset and
its associated stubbornness and emphasis on traditions.
When cadets beat up on people, whether they are students from another
school or from A&M (I've witnessed the latter), for walking on Kyle Field,
there is a big problem. The problem is not primarily with the students
violating the corps' sacred tradition, IMO, even if that invokes anger or
annoyance on the part of the corps. The problem is with the mindset that
the cadets must protect that field (and any other tradition/memorial) to
the point of violence. It simply shouldn't come to that, and it is the
cadets' fault when it happens. It is made even worse when multiple cadets
gang up on individuals (I've seen that too, in the past). I hope they
will be firmly reprimanded, maybe even suspended or expelled, for their
actions.
Regards,
Mike Byrd
Charles Herrick <charles...@cyberdigm.com> wrote:
>......
>Y'all need to get your facts straight.
>
>non-Aggies do _NOT_ walk on Kyle Field.
>
>making that crystal clear.
>
>
>around the student center, are dedicated as
>memorials to soldiers how died in defense
>of America in past wars.
>
>to which some t.u. students are willing to
>descend
>
>Kind of makes you wonder why things don't
>work this way elsewhere in American, doesn't it?
Gosh, as a 20 year retired LT Col in the USAF, I sure don't remember having
the charter to beat up on innocent civilians. Guess military training at
TA&M is taught differently there in College Station.
Still can't reconcile beating up civilians as a means to justify honoring
those that died for our country. If this is the product that A&M puts
out, sure makes me glad I'm our of the military now. Just couldn't
stomack working with thugs.
Mike Byrd
Lt Col, Retired Fighter Pilot, USAF
yn...@i-link.net
that blasphemy as well??? Are Aggies the only ones who deserve to
celebrate??????
pjpr...@eden.com
>
>Still can't reconcile beating up civilians as a means to justify honoring
>those that died for our country. If this is the product that A&M puts
>out, sure makes me glad I'm our of the military now. Just couldn't
>stomack working with thugs.
>
>Mike Byrd
>Lt Col, Retired Fighter Pilot, USAF
Were you at Bien Hoa? (just curious, know some folk who flew from there)
BTW, I agree completely.
Joe Barr
Ex-CT1, USN 1963-1970
Albert Nurick
charles...@cyberdigm.com (Charles Herrick) wrote:
>Look, think of this analog.
>Let's say you're a member of a Bhuddist sect, and convert a room into
>your house as a shrine where you worship. Now, lets say you invite me
>to your home for dinner and entertainment, and during dinner, you
>tell me that to run into your shrine/room with Birkenstocks on is considered
>highly disrespectful of your religious sect's beliefs/traditions.
>So, right after you feed me dinner and entertain me, I jump up and gleefully
>run into your shrine, wearing shoes, and taunting you about it.
>
>Get it, sir?
A better analogy would be a street gang beating up some unfortunate souls
who wandered onto their turf, ignoring the grafitti which told 'em to keep
out.
Get it, sir? Or are these gang thugs "Men" under your definition?
Considering how Kyle Field is walked upon by many non-Aggies, hiding behind
the "sacred ground" justification is foolishness and simple cowardice, IMO.
The Aggie thugs screwed up, bigtime. Fortunately, their behavior (and Mr.
Herrick's strained rationalizations) don't reflect the attitudes of most
Aggies I've known.
Paul Murray
the rule.
Just for the edification of some of you who don't know these things, I just would like to point
them out:
1) Texas Memorial Stadium is a war memorial, too. It honors those fallen in the First World
War from ALL schools in Texas. If you go to look around the stadium, you will find plaques
commemorating students from each school INCLUDING Texas A&M College (as it was then known).
Yet somehow, the aggies in 1992 decided to rip out the horns from the astroturf and do about
$75,000 in damage as their tribute to our war memorial. I see a double standard here.
They football team also did a nice little "dance" that year at midfield as a form of
gloating after they won the game. Real mature team you got there, Slocum...
2) Up until this season, all fans were allowed to walk across the field at Memorial Stadium
after the games. Now the police blockade off the field to prevent anyone from setting foot on
the field. My point? Well, simply put, if aggies don't want anyone on their precious field,
they should use the police to do it. The junior Nazis they call the Corps of Cadets are
untrained in riot control and a bunch of zealots who have no right to take "the law" into their
own hands. Unfortunately, this type of mentality is indoctrinated as part of the education
system at A&M and these people will never learn anyway.
3) Was it necessary for the Corps to march out in front of the Longhorn Band after the game as
a sign of defiance? Are they TRYING to prove that they are poor sports and can't stand to get
beaten?
Paul Murray
aka rock...@mail.utexas.edu
"Will Rogers never met an aggie!"
vince
Charles Herrick <charles...@cyberdigm.com> wrote:
>In article <4a58fs$p...@bermuda.io.com>, vi...@io.com (vince) wrote:
>> Maybe you exes can finance a wall for them instead.
>
>Sorry, pal, but there are no ex-aggies. Once and aggie, always
>an aggie. It's your school that takes such pride in calling
>yourselves ex-something.
Ex-students. Being an aggie is more like having herpes I suppose.
vince
Rick Shank
Charles Herrick <charles...@cyberdigm.com> wrote:
>In article <4ac7ni$2...@matrix.eden.com>,
> byrd...@news.eden.com (Mike Byrd) wrote:
>>In article <DJ67K...@txnews.amd.com>,
>>Charles Herrick <charles...@cyberdigm.com> wrote:
>
>>>
>>>2. They asked for it, they got it. Gig 'em.
>>>Kind of makes you wonder why things don't
>>>work this way elsewhere in American, doesn't it?
>>
>>Gosh, as a 20 year retired LT Col in the USAF, I sure don't remember having
>>the charter to beat up on innocent civilians.
>
>after listening to several requests by the game announcer to
>respect an Aggie tradition, purposefully lined up on the field,
>took a run at a line of corps and police who had lined up to
>block access to the field, pushed aside the same, and gleefully
>ran onto the field, deliberately to insult the school.
>
>This was a mob of tea-sips, not innocent civilians, and as such,
>I'd say they got much less than they deserve.
>
>> Guess military training at
>>TA&M is taught differently there in College Station.
>
>the lack of social values displayed by the t.u. students?
>Gee, I thought not. How convenient.
>
>>>Still can't reconcile beating up civilians as a means to justify honoring
>>those that died for our country. If this is the product that A&M puts
>>out, sure makes me glad I'm our of the military now. Just couldn't
>>stomack working with thugs.
>
>
Chuck, you are way out of line. It is true what the UT students did was
rude and disrespectful but it DOES NOT justify physical force or physical
abuse. Physical abuse is not an acceptable response to verbal abuse or
disrespect. You yourself are college educated and should realize this.
This is what the Colonel was referring to. He was in no way advocating
the disrespectful behaviour of the UT fans.
If you advocate physical beatings to rude behaviour, perhaps you should not
go out of your house anymore considering the way you respond to so many
people on the net.
Rick
--
Disclaimer: Not only are these NOT necessarily the opinions of the great company
I work for - AMD, they may not even be the opinions of this author. If you are
smart, you will take this post as the scribblings of a madman and ignore it.
"I know NUSSING, absolutely nussing." Sgt. Schultz
Rick Shank
>In article <ROBJ.95D...@ursula.sps.seasick.com>,
> ro...@ursula.sps.seasick.com (Rob Jones) wrote:
>>A&M has some wonderful traditions. And it has some outdated ones that
>>I doubt will ever go away. Do I condone what happened? Not at all.
>>I'ld just like to ask people to look, if they could, at the good side
>>of A&M and remember that.
>
>Even though I attended UT, I am impressed with much about A&M. It's a fine
>university, with many noble traditions.
>
>I just wish the thuggery (in the name of tradition) would be dealt with for
>what it is, and not feebly defended by those who see the world through
>maroon-colored glasses.
>
For this, Texans would have to recognize that football is just a game.
Rick - I'll probably be executed for this. :^)
Charles Herrick
byrd...@news.eden.com (Mike Byrd) wrote:
>In article <DJ67K...@txnews.amd.com>,
>Charles Herrick <charles...@cyberdigm.com> wrote:
>>Y'all need to get your facts straight.
>>
>>It is a time-honored tradition that
>>non-Aggies do _NOT_ walk on Kyle Field.
>>
>>At the game, the announcer made an announcement
>>making that crystal clear.
>>
>>Then, to provoke a situation, several t.u.
>>students walked out onto Kyle Field.
>>
>>By the way, Kyle Field, along with the grass
>>around the student center, are dedicated as
>>memorials to soldiers how died in defense
>>of America in past wars.
>>
>>1. Just goes to show you the level of disrespect
>>to which some t.u. students are willing to
>>descend
>>
>>Kind of makes you wonder why things don't
>>work this way elsewhere in American, doesn't it?
>
>Gosh, as a 20 year retired LT Col in the USAF, I sure don't remember having
>the charter to beat up on innocent civilians.
These were not innocent civilians. These were t.u. students who,
after listening to several requests by the game announcer to
respect an Aggie tradition, purposefully lined up on the field,
took a run at a line of corps and police who had lined up to
block access to the field, pushed aside the same, and gleefully
ran onto the field, deliberately to insult the school.
This was a mob of tea-sips, not innocent civilians, and as such,
I'd say they got much less than they deserve.
> Guess military training at
>TA&M is taught differently there in College Station.
Perhaps you'd like to extend your same high standards to
the lack of social values displayed by the t.u. students?
Gee, I thought not. How convenient.
>>Still can't reconcile beating up civilians as a means to justify honoring
>those that died for our country. If this is the product that A&M puts
>out, sure makes me glad I'm our of the military now. Just couldn't
>stomack working with thugs.
I'm glad you're out also.
---
David L. Crow
>These were not innocent civilians. These were t.u. students who,
>after listening to several requests by the game announcer to
>respect an Aggie tradition, purposefully lined up on the field,
>took a run at a line of corps and police who had lined up to
>block access to the field, pushed aside the same, and gleefully
>ran onto the field, deliberately to insult the school.
First, the announcer did not mention tradition. He merely requested
fans stay off the field.
Second, the police had nothing to do with trying to keep people off
of the field. They merely guarded the goalposts (which were not
touched by the way).
Charles Herrick
..
>Betcha Charles was proud of those Citadel guys whooping it up
>when Faulkner left.
Absolutely.
Thomas Wells
: In article <DJ67K...@txnews.amd.com>,
: Charles Herrick <charles...@cyberdigm.com> wrote:
: >......
: >Y'all need to get your facts straight.
: >
: >It is a time-honored tradition that
: >non-Aggies do _NOT_ walk on Kyle Field.
: >
: >At the game, the announcer made an announcement
: >making that crystal clear.
: >
: >Then, to provoke a situation, several t.u.
: >students walked out onto Kyle Field.
: >
: >By the way, Kyle Field, along with the grass
: >around the student center, are dedicated as
: >memorials to soldiers how died in defense
: >of America in past wars.
: >
: >1. Just goes to show you the level of disrespect
: >to which some t.u. students are willing to
: >descend
: >
: >2. They asked for it, they got it. Gig 'em.
: >Kind of makes you wonder why things don't
: >work this way elsewhere in American, doesn't it?
: Gosh, as a 20 year retired LT Col in the USAF, I sure don't remember having
: the charter to beat up on innocent civilians. Guess military training at
: TA&M is taught differently there in College Station.
: Still can't reconcile beating up civilians as a means to justify honoring
: those that died for our country. If this is the product that A&M puts
: out, sure makes me glad I'm our of the military now. Just couldn't
: stomack working with thugs.
: Mike Byrd
: Lt Col, Retired Fighter Pilot, USAF
I think you people are loosing sight of what happened and stereo typing a
whole Univeristy for the actions of a few.
1) No one should have been on Kyle field after the game except
the football players and respective staff.
2) The Corp members went too far and should be disciplined.
4) No matter what is said, a good sportsman always shakes the
hands of his opponent. It just shows class.
3) As far as A&M did this, cry..cry..cry, BOTH schools have had
students in the past and present that have not only violated the schools
but each other. Not too long ago some t.u. students stole Reville from
her keeper's home.
Both schools are fine in their own ways and the actions of a few should
not be made to tarnish the rest of the individuals there.
Thomas Wells
'Gig-Em
Jeffrey W. Janner
} In article <jwjanner-061...@ppp19-05.rns.tamu.edu>,
jwja...@tamu.edu (Jeffrey W. Janner) writes:
}
} [snip]
}
} >1) You can tell that poor-sport quarterback of yours that I have zero
} >respect for him. I had a healthy respect for the team until his refusal
} >to shake the hand of A&M players after the game. You have to give respect
} >to get it.
}
} ...and considering that Mr. Lowrey from a&m first told James Brown that
} UT's win was a "fluke", and that Texas was "lucky to have won", I don't
} blame Brown at all for refusing to shake his hand. This after *Brown*
} was approaching Lowrey to shake his hand in the first place! As you say,
} "you have to give respect to get it."
Well, none of the story was reported down here, and I don't get the
$tate$man on a daily basis. See other post on my thoughts on this
unfolding scenario.
}
} >2) I have little respect for your coach for allowing a seriously injured
} >player to continue playing & possibly further injuring himself, possibly
} >permanently. Guess he just didn't think any of his other quarterbacks
} >could play worth a darn.
}
} ...and didn't one Leeland McElroy continue playing in the fourth quarter
} with a possible broken collarbone? Guess you have little respect for
} Coach R. C. Slocum too...
Sorry, watched the whole game & didn't ever notice Leeland getting hurt.
What game were you watching?
--
Jeff Janner | jwja...@tamu.edu
"It's a Yuletide!" -- The Tick
(in high squeaky voice) "Read a Book!" -- Handy
Jeffrey W. Janner
<tne...@austin.ibm.com> wrote:
} Yes there was a game last Saturday; between a very fired up
} University of Texas Longorn team and aTm. You owe it to
} yourself to view some of the highlight hits delivered during
} the contest. I remember Mr. Westbrook taking Leland out of
} his shows and then getting flagged for too much celebrating.
} Result: 3 of aTm's 6 points. Or how about Stoney setting the
} tone for the game by forcing a fumble. Or the one that Tony
} Brackens got away with on Mr. Pullig. Thinking about it makes
} me wish I had it on tape.
}
} I hope UT can play with the same intensity against what sounds
} to be the a&m of the east coast. Let's hope their corps of cadets
} has better manners.
Only if the t.u. fans display better manners thatn they did in Kyle Field.
But I doubt that would *ever* happen.
Jeffrey W. Janner
<joyce_fitz_ruff-...@joycefitzruffmac.sps.mot.com>,
joyce_f...@riscgate.sps.mot.com (Joyful!) wrote:
} jwja...@tamu.edu (Jeffrey W. Janner) wrote:
} = I wasn't at the game, but from published & personal stories, here's what
} = I've been able to piece together. First some background: Kyle field is a
} = memorial to fallen Aggies and only football teams and performing bands are
} = allowed on the field without being "guilty" of desecrating the memorial.
} = Each game a squad of senior corps members are assigned the "duty" of
} = guarding the field. It is also state property, therefore possesion of
} = alcohol is a criminal offense. Now for what I understand happened:
}
} And how many members are in a squad? Was it really a good enough
} "barrier" to keep others off the field? Apparently not.
I should have said "the seniors from a squad". By count, it's about 12
men. FTR: The Houston Chronicle reported that the unfortunate "stomping"
incident occured only after the t.u. student had been lead from the field
several times. The last time, he fell and when the Cadet went to help him
up, the t-sip started kicking (and swinging?) at the cadet. When this was
seen, a number of the cadet's friends went to his defense.
}
} = As is usual, just prior to the end of the game, the announcer reminded
} = everyone to please repsect the memorial and stay off the field after the
} = game was over. He did this no-less than 5 times (according to one source
} = there at the game). At the end of the game, several "drunken" t.u.
} = students attempted to take to the field to celebrate.
}
} Perhaps the announcement should be made earlier in the game, and more
} often, such as the beginning, between quarters, and at halftime, so that
} those who were drunk by the end of the game might have heard it earlier?
They'd have just ignored it as they did the others. Since no one is
supposed to have alcohol in the stadium, why should the announcer assume
that there was a crowd of drunks out there. The announcer has only made
the announcement once just prior to the end of the game at all the other
games this year and we had no troubles. (Even the SMU fans didn't prepare
to take the field when it looked like they were going to beat us.) Sounds
like the t.u. fans just wanted to push it.
}
} = At the south end of
} = the field, several corps members linked arms together & successfully and
} = peacefully moved the U.T. fans at that end from the field without
} = incident.
}
} That's good to know. At least they do seem to have some plan for crowd
control.
}
} = However, at the north end zone, a larger group of t.u. fans
} = charged the University police & corps members who were guarding the field
} = and telling the to please stay off. Several broke through and a brawl
} = broke out. At this point (of course) it gets confusing, but several
} = things are known to have happened: several fights broke out, one couple
} = went out to the middle of the field and proceeded to "fornicate" on the
} = field (they kept their clothes on but the disrespect was clearly in
} = evidence), and (unfortunately) several corps members beat a poor soul
} = senseless, including kicking him once down. Unfortunately, I am once
} = again ashamed of the keepers of our traditions for having behaved so
} = badly.
}
} Yes, that poor behavior reflects badly on the corps, the university, and
} even the traditions they try to uphold. Here's hoping they can control
} their tempers next time.
}
} Joy, Aggie '91
}
} / "I can show you the world, shining, shimmering, splendid." \
} \ "A Whole New World" - Prince Ali, _Aladdin_ /
} / Joyce Fitz Ruff -- Fluff Queen -- Disney Chemical Addict \
} \ Motorola, RISC Applications, Austin, TX /
--
Jeffrey W. Janner
<tne...@austin.ibm.com> wrote:
} Jeffrey W. Janner wrote:
} >
} > In article <49vgpl$1...@boris.eden.com>, pjpr...@eden.com wrote:
} >
} > } In <30C32B...@austin.ibm.com>, Ted Neible
<tne...@austin.ibm.com> writes:
} > }
} > } Snippage of background data.
} >
} > I wasn't at the game, but from published & personal stories, here's what
} > I've been able to piece together. First some background: Kyle field is a
} > memorial to fallen Aggies and only football teams and performing bands are
} > allowed on the field without being "guilty" of desecrating the memorial.
} > Each game a squad of senior corps members are assigned the "duty" of
} > guarding the field. It is also state property, therefore possesion of
} > alcohol is a criminal offense. Now for what I understand happened:
}
} There's a news flash: Someone had the gall to drink at a football game
} and carry their overzealous celebration onto the field. I'll bet no
} corps-head has ever been guilty of that. Are you contending that this
} is justification for taking a beating at the hands of cadets, some of
} whom may have embibed as well?
}
Nope. Once again, someone doesn't read all of a post before responding.
Then reads his own interpretations into things.
} Jeffrey W. Janner continues:
} >
} > As is usual, just prior to the end of the game, the announcer reminded
} > everyone to please repsect the memorial and stay off the field after the
} > game was over. He did this no-less than 5 times (according to one source
} > there at the game). At the end of the game, several "drunken" t.u.
} > students attempted to take to the field to celebrate. At the south end of
} > the field, several corps members linked arms together & successfully and
} > peacefully moved the U.T. fans at that end from the field without
} > incident. However, at the north end zone, a larger group of t.u. fans
} > charged the University police & corps members who were guarding the field
} > and telling the to please stay off. Several broke through and a brawl
} > broke out. At this point (of course) it gets confusing, but several
} > things are known to have happened: several fights broke out, one couple
} > went out to the middle of the field and proceeded to "fornicate" on the
} > field (they kept their clothes on but the disrespect was clearly in
} > evidence), and (unfortunately) several corps members beat a poor soul
} > senseless, including kicking him once down. Unfortunately, I am once
} > again ashamed of the keepers of our traditions for having behaved so
} > badly.
} >
} One man's disrespect is another's celebration. When I go to a game, I have
} the knowledge that the field is a stupid place to be after a game has
} completed and therefore avoid it. Unfortunately, not everyone is of the
} same mind. Unfortunately, not everyone is aware of the hallowed nature of
} Kyle Field. It's OK to fling chickens around on it at half time, as long
} as it is a corps-head that is doing the tossing. Nobody deserves to get
} beat up for trodding on the field. This was not an unforseen situation.
} Somebody had better be on somebody else's carpet explaining the lack of
} preperation.
Sorry, no Corps member would run around on the field at half-time flinging
chickens. If he did, I'm sure the seniors guarding the field would lead
him off and then his superior would see that he pushed plenty for having
done so. As for no one knowing the nature of Kyle field, most students
have heard of the "SMU cheerleader" incident. It's joke fodder on most
campuses.
} /******************************************************************
} /* Ted Neible | tne...@austin.ibm.com
} /* Works for, but does not | AUSVM6(TNEIBLE)
} /* speak for IBM. | tne...@eworld.com
} /******************************************************************
^^^
AH, this explains the lack of working brain cells.
Andrew Hackard
>In article <4a58fs$p...@bermuda.io.com>, vi...@io.com (vince) wrote:
>>Ah, now I understand(except for why an aggie would move to Austin).
>>Odd that the aggies use a large piece of carpet to represent their
>>war dead. Maybe you exes can finance a wall for them instead.
>Sorry, pal, but there are no ex-aggies. Once and aggie, always
>an aggie. It's your school that takes such pride in calling
>yourselves ex-something.
Yeah...Ex-Students. I can understand where this distinction would escape
one such as yourself.
>>vince(The University - '84)
>Therr is only one University _OF_ Texas,
>and it's located in College Station.
There are any number of universities in the UT and A&M Systems, and all of
them can provide a good education; the trick lies in picking the right one
for you and for what you want to study.
I respect A&M's richness of tradition; I just don't want mass assault and
institutionalized violence to become one of them. (For the record, I
think running onto Kyle Field was stupid.)
--
Texas 16--Texas A&M 6
The oldest ... the best ... the LAST. UT--1995 SWC champs.
If you're gonna go out, do it in STYLE. So long, SWC. Hook 'em.
Jeffrey W. Janner
} I was at the game sitting in the north end where the fracas took
} place. By the end of the game, our group had made our way to about
} the 10th row, so we had a good view of the situation.
}
} That out of the way, let me make some corrections.
}
} jwja...@tamu.edu (Jeffrey W. Janner) writes:
} >I wasn't at the game, but from published & personal stories, here's what
} >I've been able to piece together. First some background: Kyle field is a
} >memorial to fallen Aggies and only football teams and performing bands are
} >allowed on the field without being "guilty" of desecrating the memorial.
}
} Are you aware that the stadium is open to the public when no event
} is scheduled? Anyone in the world can use the field as they wish if
} it is not already being used. It appears that it is only a memorial
} worth fighting for when it is convenient (like at football games and
} the Friday night pep rallies).
And if discovered on it by the authorities (or a member of the corps) they
will be asked to please leave from the field. Yes, it is only supposed to
be used for officially sancitoned functions.
}
} As the Corps was gang-tackling single idiot Longhorn fans who were
} able to break through the porous Corps blockade, there were small
} children (elementary school age) tossing footballs on the field. The
} Corps didn't seem to find the need to gang tackle them.
Well, at least they finally showed some sense. :) 'Course, one could say
that this proves that the t.u. fans were being "childish". Had the t.u.
fans been grown-up enough to respect the anouncements, then I'm sure one
of the cadets would have gone over to the children & politely asked them
to leave the field.
}
} The Corps reaction was extremely selective and extremely brutal.
Selective, yep, they only went after fans *on* the field. Brutal,
unfortunately. Once again FTR: I am disappointed and embarassed (again)
by the actions of the Corps of Cadets. And I fully agree that proper
legal inquiries could & should be made on all sides of the event. (felt
that needed to be said as some are painting me as defenders of these
idiots.)
}
} >Each game a squad of senior corps members are assigned the "duty" of
} >guarding the field. It is also state property, therefore possesion of
} >alcohol is a criminal offense. Now for what I understand happened:
}
} I'm curious about this supposed law. Alcohol is allowed in dorms,
} in the Texas Union, and is provided to Longhorn Foundation Members on
} top of the Neuhaus-Royal Athletic Complex during football games and in
} the Orange and White Room in the Erwin Center during basketball games.
} Should all of these people be taken to jail?
Depends. The law in laymen's terms: Alcohol is prohibitted on State
property unless that property is being leased from the state at the time.
Therefore, dorm rooms are OK (though how did you get it to your room), and
skyboxes are "leased" for games. I've often wondered about the Union, my
guess has been that it is leased space by a private entity, and not run by
the University. Otherwise, they would be in violation (unless there is a
special case just for the Union, and that wouldn't surprise me). As to
the other cases you mentioned, my guess is that the organizations are
"leasing" the space from the University. There is also an exception for
State parks. Not sure of the severity of the violation, though.
}
} >As is usual, just prior to the end of the game, the announcer reminded
} >everyone to please repsect the memorial and stay off the field after the
} >game was over. He did this no-less than 5 times (according to one source
} >there at the game).
}
} I heard it no more than three times. At no time was the mention of
} a memorial mentioned. The announcer did not mention a reason for his
} request, only that fans should refrain from entering the field after
} the game.
Well, that should be enough. It was his usual announcement. FTR: there
is some discussion in the tamu.general group about whether or not it *is*
a memorial. No consensus, yet. Nor proof or reference.
}
} >At the end of the game, several "drunken" t.u.
} >students attempted to take to the field to celebrate. At the south end of
} >the field, several corps members linked arms together & successfully and
} >peacefully moved the U.T. fans at that end from the field without
} >incident.
}
} Without incident? Did you watch the game on TV? I watched the tape
} when I got home and there was an incident between Mike Adams, the
} Texas cheerleaders, the TAMU cheerleaders and some members of the Corps.
That is what I heard and read. I did not see any of the postgame stuff on
TV. Perhaps we turned it off, perhaps it wasn't shown, don't remember.
But yes, the incident has been reported here. As I've heard it, just a
simple flag theft & return.
}
} >However, at the north end zone, a larger group of t.u. fans
} >charged the University police & corps members who were guarding the field
} >and telling the to please stay off.
}
} The KK had absolutely nothing to do with this. Both the KK and the
} B/CS police backed up and guarded the goalpost. This was their only
} concern. The Corps acted all by themselves on this one.
Gee, I never said the cops had anything to do with the beatings. Learn to
read, asshole.
}
} >Several broke through and a brawl
} >broke out. At this point (of course) it gets confusing, but several
} >things are known to have happened: several fights broke out, one couple
} >went out to the middle of the field and proceeded to "fornicate" on the
} >field (they kept their clothes on but the disrespect was clearly in
} >evidence), and (unfortunately) several corps members beat a poor soul
} >senseless, including kicking him once down. Unfortunately, I am once
} >again ashamed of the keepers of our traditions for having behaved so
} >badly.
}
} I did not see anyone fornicating, but I don't deny that it could
} have happened. What broke out was not "fights". It was 30-50 Corps
} members gang tackling a single Texas fan, continually slamming his
} head into the ground, and kicking and punching him. I use the term
} "him" generically, as the Corps was not sex-selective on who they
} attacked. An ABC camera-man reported to Jeff Ward that a Corps member
} was seen dragging a female by her hair.
}
} There is plenty of blame to be put on both sides of this story.
Thank you. Suffice it to say from from my standpoint, that if the t.u.
fans had followed requests, then none of it would have happened. (FTR: I
am highly disgusted at the actions of the corps members who took part in
the beating.)
Was it really 30-50 are are you inflating just a bit?
}
} >1) You can tell that poor-sport quarterback of yours that I have zero
} >respect for him. I had a healthy respect for the team until his refusal
} >to shake the hand of A&M players after the game. You have to give respect
} >to get it.
}
} Gene Lowery (the TAMC player) told James Brown "It was a fluke. You
} got lucky. It will never happen again". James decided not to shake
} his hand. There was plenty of poor-sportsmanship to go around.
}
This is the story reported *after* it was reported that JB shunned the
Ags. Pick which version you wish to believe.
} >2) I have little respect for your coach for allowing a seriously injured
} >player to continue playing & possibly further injuring himself, possibly
} >permanently. Guess he just didn't think any of his other quarterbacks
} >could play worth a darn.
}
} James Brown told the coach that he could play. James Brown would
} not have allowed anyone else to play. It was an important game for
} him and he was not going to miss it. Mackovic has plenty of
} confidence in his other quarterbacks as can be seen in the Baylor game
} where Richard Walton played the entire game. It appears that James
} did just fine. Much better than a very healthy Corey Pullig.
True, thank God we won't have him to kick around anymore. I was highly
disappointed in our offense's and coach's performances. We were outplayed
and I gladly conceed the game. Personally, I think Walton coulda finished
us off after Brown re-injured his ankle. (p.s. it's *not* JB's call as to
when he plays. It's Mac's call. Otherwise, why have him?)
Jeffrey W. Janner
<joyce_fitz_ruff-...@joycefitzruffmac.sps.mot.com>,
joyce_f...@riscgate.sps.mot.com (Joyful!) wrote:
} vi...@io.com (vince) wrote:
} = Charles Herrick <charles...@cyberdigm.com> wrote:
} = >Gig 'em (next year)
} =
} = Ah, now I understand(except for why an aggie would move to Austin).
}
} No real jobs in B/CS. Houston's weather and traffic suck. Dallas is too
} pompous. That leaves Austin. =)
}
} Joy
Yea, but not for long. It's quickly combining the worst from both cities,
and throwing in a little bit from San Jose just for good measure.
John F. Haugh II
>In article <30C89D...@tivoli.com>, jack newton <jne...@tivoli.com> wrote:
>>Betcha Charles was proud of those Citadel guys whooping it up
>>when Faulkner left.
>
>Absolutely.
Why? Because she was a woman, or because she was a poser?
--
John F. Haugh II [ NRA-ILA ] [ Kill Barney ] !'s: ...!cs.utexas.edu!rpp386!jfh
Ma Bell: (512) 251-2151 [GOP][DoF #17][PADI][ENTJ] @'s: j...@rpp386.cactus.org
C:\ONGRTLNS.W95
pjpr...@eden.com
<meaningless drivel snipped>
Do you realize how infantile you look every time you say "t.u."?
Between the two icons of Aggiedom, the gang-bang beating of a single
student by the thugs in the corps, or the third-grade mentality
behind the "t.u." thing, it's hard to tell which brings more dishonor
upon Texas A&M.
To onlookers everywhere, not all Aggies are as cowardly and infantile
as Mister Herrick. Please don't judge them all based on him.
Tony Mullins
>
>I disagree again. In fact, this Liberal value, often touted over the
>last 30 or so years, more for it's mantramic value than for it's
>internal consistency, is put forth by those who _want_
>to create an environment in which they can be rude and
>disrespectful with impugnity.
Chuck, are you really as ignorant as you seem. You've never heard of
punishments that don't involve violence?
>
>Indeed, I've had many conversations with old-timers
>who tell me that it is precisely this proviso that
>has led to the epidemic in the disrespect people
>have begun to indulge.
And what qualified them as experts. Anecdotal evidence never proves anything.
I can point to many violent criminals whose treatment while children at the
hands of such well-intentioned adults has, in part, pushed them to their
current state. It doesn't justify their crimes or mitigate their punishment,
but the correlation is verifiable.
For the record, I don't believe that corporal punishment is necessarily bad.
However, merely spewing some B.S. about having talked to a bunch of old-timers
and they said, "It is thus.", doesn't make it so.
>
>Indeed, I now challenge you to tell me just what
>reaction is appropriate when someone invited to your
>domain/home/school, after being asked politely not
>to engage in extremely disrespectful behavior, does
>so anyway, and with glee and malice aforethought.
You have duly deputized law-enforcement officials cite each trespasser for
their offense and haul them to the local jail until their fine is paid. What
the Corps engaged in is known as assault, and I am surprised that I haven't
heard of anyone being both criminally charged and sued for it.
>
>Would you have us all stand about with our gnurled
>little fists tightly clenched on our cojones, and
>smile, while mumbling "please, sir, may I have another?"
Grow up.
>I challenge you and all others who want to bemoan the
>pummeling delivered by corps members to be as
>unforgiving of the salacious behavior of the t.u.
>students... maybe then we can sit and have a
>conversation about alternatives to defending one
>self from virulent disrespect.
O.K. They trespassed. Fine them. That is the appropriate response, if, in
fact, it is a College-Station ordinance that trespassing is not allowed on Kyle
Field or if such a no-trespassing warning was given by a lawfully recognized
deputy.
As for virulent disrespect, if all Aggies are as obnoxious and ignorant as you
appear in your posts, then I would say the disrespect is deserving.
>
>> If you advocate physical beatings to rude behaviour, perhaps you should
>not
>> go out of your house anymore considering the way you respond to so many
>> people on the net.
>
>I walk where I want, when ever I want, with my head up
>and my eyes open. While I intend always to tolerate
>speach, no matter how much with it I may disagree, I
>intend never to tolerate disrespect when it masquerades
>in the form of physical abuse.
What? This last statement wins the George Orwell doublespeak award. What
disrespect masqueraded as physical abuse?
Don't step on my property. I'll beat you to a bloody pulp for trespassing,
then I'll gloat on the net about my justified response.
>
>And I can assure you, the t.u. students who shoved
>aside the line of corps members and police to get
>onto the field, were engaging in abusive behavior.
>
>Now, in Liberal Austin, it may have been
>_Politically_Correct_ abusive behavior, but
>then I've never been one to kneel and worship
>at the altar of _Poltical_Correctness.
Give it a rest. Are you the only martyr in town for the conservative cause.
Do you really believe you are the one true conservative. Some of us
conservatives believe people should be responsible for their actions. We also
believe that assault is not an appropriate response to trespassing. If it were
it would be one of the possible punishments available to the police and judges
for such offenses. It is not, nor should it be.
>
>--
>My comments above are offered solely as my personal opinions.
>I speak for no one but myself at all times.
>My opinions are not to be construed as those of CyberDigm Systems.
>Right to copy my comments in any form other than netnews and email
>is expressly forbidden, including any form of print or visual
>journalism. This restriction includes any part of my statements
You do realize that this is true B.S., don't you? You've stated your opinion
in a public forum and anyone can legally quote your statements in any medium
they so choose under the fair use provisions of the copyright laws. You may
retain the copyright to your written words which disallows anyone from using
them for commercial gain, but legitimate use in a news forum cannot be
prevented. Good luck getting this disclaimer to hold water if someone chooses
to quote your idiocy in a printed or telecast news article. Why anyone would
want to quote your words is a question I can't answer.
--
Tony Mullins |internet: jam...@che.utexas.edu
Dept. of Chem. Eng'rg., CPE 5.438 |ma bell : 512-471-3477
University of Texas - Austin |ma FAX : 512-475-7824
Austin, TX 78712-1062
Mark A. Breland
In article <jwjanner-111...@ppp0c-17.rns.tamu.edu>, jwja...@tamu.edu (Jeffrey W. Janner) writes:
>In article <DJ6tF...@mcc.com>, bre...@photon.mcc.com wrote:
>
>} ...and considering that Mr. Lowrey from a&m first told James Brown that
>} UT's win was a "fluke", and that Texas was "lucky to have won", I don't
>} blame Brown at all for refusing to shake his hand. This after *Brown*
>} was approaching Lowrey to shake his hand in the first place! As you say,
>} "you have to give respect to get it."
>
>Well, none of the story was reported down here, and I don't get the
>$tate$man on a daily basis. See other post on my thoughts on this
>unfolding scenario.
Ignorance may be bliss, but it's still no excuse...
>} ...and didn't one Leeland McElroy continue playing in the fourth quarter
>} with a possible broken collarbone? Guess you have little respect for
>} Coach R. C. Slocum too...
>
>Sorry, watched the whole game & didn't ever notice Leeland getting hurt.
>What game were you watching?
December 2, 1995, Texas vs. A&M
The game The University of Texas won to secure the Southwest Conference
football championship for perpetuity. If you are fortunate enough to
have a videotape of the contest, kindly revisit the fourth quarter hit
UT defensive back Bryant Westbrook delivered to Mr. McElroy at the Texas
25 yardline. This would have been the same play that UT was assessed a
penalty for alleged "taunting". This would have also been the same play
which resulted in Mr. McElroy being X-rayed after the game to determine
if his collarbone was broken. You're closer to Mr. McElroy than I am,
ask him for verification. He will answer affirmatively.
Mark
JB
> In article <DJGADx....@tpoint.net> charles...@cyberdigm.com writes:
>>In article <DJFsn...@txnews.amd.com> ri...@dvorak.amd.com (Rick Shank)
>>writes:
>>> Chuck, you are way out of line. It is true what the UT students did was
>>> rude and disrespectful but it DOES NOT justify physical force or
>>physical
>>> abuse.
>>
>>there were any surprise on the faces of the t.u. students
>>who got pummeled, it was naive in the extreme.
>
> Uh, you're pulling my leg, right? Please, dear God, tell me that you are
> pulling my leg.
>
> Violence is =never= an answer. Civilized people don't behave this way.
> You want to hold onto your conservative credentials, try supporting the
> rule of law. Traditions at competing universities have no weight when
> compared to the Texas criminal code.
> --
Indeed. Hell, Chuck, the kind of traditional reaction to insult you espose
happens every day when someone "disses" someone else in certain parts of the fair
city of Austin. But hell, I'd never thought of you as a gang-banger before.
Stay off my [astro]turf or I'll break your ass, eh? Most of us have evolved
beyond that. Feel free to join us.
JB
Joyful!
= ri...@dvorak.amd.com (Rick Shank) writes:
= > Chuck, you are way out of line. It is true what the UT students did was
= > rude and disrespectful but it DOES NOT justify physical force or
= > physical abuse.
=
= I disagree. Given the blatant provocation, I'd say if
= there were any surprise on the faces of the t.u. students
= who got pummeled, it was naive in the extreme.
=
= >Physical abuse is not an acceptable response to verbal abuse or
= > disrespect. You yourself are college educated and should realize this.
=
= Indeed, I now challenge you to tell me just what
= reaction is appropriate when someone invited to your
= domain/home/school, after being asked politely not
= to engage in extremely disrespectful behavior, does
= so anyway, and with glee and malice aforethought.
=
= Would you have us all stand about with our gnurled
= little fists tightly clenched on our cojones, and
= smile, while mumbling "please, sir, may I have another?"
IMO, the police (either city or campus) should have been in control of the
situation, detaining and perhaps arresting those who violated the request
to stay off the field. Abuse is still not an appropriate response.
Physical restraint and forcible removal from the field, perhaps, but not
abuse.
= > This is what the Colonel was referring to. He was in no way advocating
= > the disrespectful behaviour of the UT fans.
=
= Not one, and I repeat, not one net post on this subject,
= until yours and one other after it, in any way, even
= a hint, condemned the t.u. darlings who started this.
That's because the crime of the Longhorns was deemed as less damaging than
the crime of the Aggies who beat them up. I myself agree that beating
someone up is far worse than showing disrespect by walking on a football
field. That doesn't make the Longhorns' action right or better or
anything like that, but the difference in the extremity of the actions is
quite obvious to most of us.
Regards,
Jeong H. Han
> souls who wandered onto their turf, ignoring the grafitti which told 'em to
> keep out.
[mindless herrick stuff deleted]
> Get it, sir? Or are these gang thugs "Men" under your definition?
>
> Yep. Men. Spelled _M_ _E_ _N_. Rarities in a culture
> perverted by wimps whose agenda is to wussify as many
> people as possible in their culture, so they can
> can be reminded as infrequently as possible of
> their shortcomings as men.
like those cadets dragging women cheerleaders (which were allowed on the
field) by the hair? like drawing swords against an unarmed smu crowd a
few years back. if such barbarianism is your definition of MEN, i for
one, am glad that i am shortcoming.
gee whiz, herrick. how do you eat with your foot in your mouth all the
time? it's a scary thought to find people who do not realize what they
are advocating (as shown in the above statement). on second thought, it is
even more frightening to think that they actually do realize what they are
advocating.
chewbacca
Ted Neible
>
> Sorry, no Corps member would run around on the field at half-time flinging
> chickens. If he did, I'm sure the seniors guarding the field would lead
> him off and then his superior would see that he pushed plenty for having
> done so. As for no one knowing the nature of Kyle field, most students
> have heard of the "SMU cheerleader" incident. It's joke fodder on most
> campuses.
Sorry Jeff, but I witnessed the corps-head perform the chicken fling on
the hallowed turf of Kyle field. It appeared to be a sanctioned activity
as he was part of the half time festivities. I don't remember the year
exactly, at least fifteen years ago. You would think the corps of cadets,
concerned as they are about maintaining the dignity of the memorial,
might have decided against that particular sport. The selective application
of what should be taken as acceptable behavior on Kyle field is laughable.
It is aTm's home and they get to make the rules, but I'll wager the rules
do not include assault. It's a shame all of our fans did not simply stay
off the field. It's a bigger shame some of them were pummeled for their
poor judgement.
Just remember: TEXAS 16 aTm 6
It sounds so nice.
--
Don House-SunService
Charles Herrick <charles...@cyberdigm.com> wrote:
>This was a mob of tea-sips, not innocent civilians, and as such,
>I'd say they got much less than they deserve.
Gee Charles, please tell us what they deserved. Then tell us what the aggies
that cut up the turf in Memorial Stadium a couple of years ago deserved too. And
while you're at it you can tell us what that wild mob of Raiders deserved when they
pulled down the goal post at Memorial Stadium. And that was after a win.
Remember Memorial Stadium is a war memorial also, dedicated to all Texans
who died in wars. Please be consistent.
---
don
UT - Perpetual SWC Football Champions
UT _ Perpetual SWC Women's Volleyball Champions
George Manson
>t.u.
charles...@cyberdigm.com (Charles Herrick) wrote:
>t.u.
charles...@cyberdigm.com (Charles Herrick) wrote:
>t.u.
[snip]
>t.u.
charles...@cyberdigm.com (Charles Herrick) wrote:
>t.u.
[snip]
>t.u.
[snip]
>t.u.
[snip]
>t.u.
charles...@cyberdigm.com (Charles Herrick) wrote:
>t.u.
Isn't that disrespectful enough? Do I have the right to come kick your
ass now?
Jeffrey Manson
UWL...@prodigy.com
Joel Irby
>In article <4ac7ni$2...@matrix.eden.com>,
> byrd...@news.eden.com (Mike Byrd) wrote:
>>Charles Herrick <charles...@cyberdigm.com> wrote:
>>>......
>>>Y'all need to get your facts straight.
>>>
>>>It is a time-honored tradition that
>>>non-Aggies do _NOT_ walk on Kyle Field.
>>>
>>>At the game, the announcer made an announcement
>>>making that crystal clear.
>>>
>>>Then, to provoke a situation, several t.u.
>>>students walked out onto Kyle Field.
>>>
>>>By the way, Kyle Field, along with the grass
>>>around the student center, are dedicated as
>>>memorials to soldiers how died in defense
>>>of America in past wars.
>>>
>>>1. Just goes to show you the level of disrespect
>>>to which some t.u. students are willing to
>>>descend
>>>
>>>2. They asked for it, they got it. Gig 'em.
Oh, is *that* what they call a brutal mugging at A&M? At
UT it would be called "assault & battery". At UT, we beat
up our guests when they step on our field (except *during
the game*, that is---Hook 'em Horns! :-)
>>>Kind of makes you wonder why things don't
>>>work this way elsewhere in American, doesn't it?
Yes, College Station must be a special place, all right...
Sort of like a little Nazi paradise near the banks of the
Brazos.
...(Mike Byrd) wrote:
>>Gosh, as a 20 year retired LT Col in the USAF, I sure don't remember having
>>the charter to beat up on innocent civilians.
>
>These were not innocent civilians. These were t.u. students who,
>after listening to several requests by the game announcer to
>respect an Aggie tradition, purposefully lined up on the field,
>took a run at a line of corps and police who had lined up to
>block access to the field, pushed aside the same, and gleefully
>ran onto the field, deliberately to insult the school.
>
>This was a mob of tea-sips, not innocent civilians, and as such,
>I'd say they got much less than they deserve.
You would be right. They deserved at least the same respect
that you Aggies give your war dead. After all, those students
had a pulse, if I'm not mistaken...
My point being: it is ludicrous to physically harm a *live*
human to protect an inanimate object---the Kyle Field astro-
turf---that represents the sacrifices made by *dead* humans who
died protecting, among other things, our unique American right
to freedom of expression. (Or is that too abstract an argument
for your feeble Aggie mind, Charles?)
>Perhaps you'd like to extend your same high standards to
>the lack of social values displayed by the t.u. students?
>Gee, I thought not. How convenient.
From what I've seen in my 6 years at UT-Austin and, lately, reading
austin.general, our students (and ex-students) have much higher
"social values"--- you know, compassion, non-violence--- than
those of Texas A&M. What social values are you referring to,
Charles?
...(Mike Byrd) wrote:
>>>Still can't reconcile beating up civilians as a means to justify honoring
>>those that died for our country. If this is the product that A&M puts
>>out, sure makes me glad I'm our of the military now. Just couldn't
>>stomack working with thugs.
>
>I'm glad you're out also.
OK. I have more questions for Mr. Herrick:
1. Are you in the military? Have you ever been? I'm honestly
curious, as well as worried that your views might be prevalent in
the military today. If so, we could be witnessing the planting
of the seeds of fascism. (No joke, folks. Be afraid, be very
afraid---it could happen here if we're not careful.)
2. Do you really believe that paramilitary organizations like the
Aggie corps should be allowed to enforce their limited archaic moral
code on the rest of society? They can try, but in our pluralistic
system, they're not going to succeed.
3. Also, FYI, the announcer at UT's own Memorial Stadium has begun
this year request that fans refrain from entering the field after
games, mostly for public safety but partly to prepare for life in
the Big 12, which has stricter regulations protecting the safety
of its players. One of these regulations is that student seating
must be on the same side of the field as the home team's bench (I
suppose this is to protect the players and coaches from drunken
hooligans student fans). My point is that A&M and UT are
about to join a much more tradition-hostile league than the good-
ole SWC, so we would all be better off supporting each other in
efforts to be a good influence on our (ahem) neighbors to the north.
OU still sucks, of course --- some things will never change. :-)
4. Last, but not least, when will you lighten up and get a life?
Repeat after me: UT/A&M is a game... It's only a game...
Life goes on (for some of us at least ;-)
Hook 'em, Horns! Beat the Hokies in the Sugar Bowl!
-Joel
----------------------------------------------------------------------
_ J o e l I r b y Joel_Irb...@email.sps.mot.com
_| ~-. Austin, TX DSP Test Engineering
\, *_} 512-891-8884 Motorola SPS
\( Speaking only for myself, and NOT Motorola or its customers.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
charles...@cyberdigm.com
> Charles Herrick <charles...@cyberdigm.com> wrote:
> >In article <4ac7ni$2...@matrix.eden.com>,
> > byrd...@news.eden.com (Mike Byrd) wrote:
> >>In article <DJ67K...@txnews.amd.com>,
> >>Charles Herrick <charles...@cyberdigm.com> wrote:
> >
> >>>
> >>>2. They asked for it, they got it. Gig 'em.
> >>>work this way elsewhere in American, doesn't it?
> >>
having
> >>the charter to beat up on innocent civilians.
> >
> >These were not innocent civilians. These were t.u. students who,
> >after listening to several requests by the game announcer to
> >respect an Aggie tradition, purposefully lined up on the field,
> >took a run at a line of corps and police who had lined up to
> >block access to the field, pushed aside the same, and gleefully
> >ran onto the field, deliberately to insult the school.
> >
> >This was a mob of tea-sips, not innocent civilians, and as such,
> >I'd say they got much less than they deserve.
> >
> >>TA&M is taught differently there in College Station.
> >
> >the lack of social values displayed by the t.u. students?
> >Gee, I thought not. How convenient.
> >
honoring
> >>those that died for our country. If this is the product that A&M puts
> >>out, sure makes me glad I'm our of the military now. Just couldn't
> >>stomack working with thugs.
> >
> >I'm glad you're out also.
> >
>
>
> abuse.
I disagree. Given the blatant provocation, I'd say if
there were any surprise on the faces of the t.u. students
who got pummeled, it was naive in the extreme.
>Physical abuse is not an acceptable response to verbal abuse or
> disrespect. You yourself are college educated and should realize this.
I disagree again. In fact, this Liberal value, often touted over the
last 30 or so years, more for it's mantramic value than for it's
internal consistency, is put forth by those who _want_
to create an environment in which they can be rude and
disrespectful with impugnity.
Indeed, I've had many conversations with old-timers
who tell me that it is precisely this proviso that
has led to the epidemic in the disrespect people
have begun to indulge.
Indeed, I now challenge you to tell me just what
reaction is appropriate when someone invited to your
domain/home/school, after being asked politely not
to engage in extremely disrespectful behavior, does
so anyway, and with glee and malice aforethought.
Would you have us all stand about with our gnurled
little fists tightly clenched on our cojones, and
smile, while mumbling "please, sir, may I have another?"
> This is what the Colonel was referring to. He was in no way advocating
> the disrespectful behaviour of the UT fans.
Not one, and I repeat, not one net post on this subject,
until yours and one other after it, in any way, even
a hint, condemned the t.u. darlings who started this.
I challenge you and all others who want to bemoan the
pummeling delivered by corps members to be as
unforgiving of the salacious behavior of the t.u.
students... maybe then we can sit and have a
conversation about alternatives to defending one
self from virulent disrespect.
> If you advocate physical beatings to rude behaviour, perhaps you should
not
> go out of your house anymore considering the way you respond to so many
> people on the net.
I walk where I want, when ever I want, with my head up
and my eyes open. While I intend always to tolerate
speach, no matter how much with it I may disagree, I
intend never to tolerate disrespect when it masquerades
in the form of physical abuse.
And I can assure you, the t.u. students who shoved
aside the line of corps members and police to get
onto the field, were engaging in abusive behavior.
Now, in Liberal Austin, it may have been
_Politically_Correct_ abusive behavior, but
then I've never been one to kneel and worship
at the altar of _Poltical_Correctness.
--
charles...@cyberdigm.com
writes:
> In article <DJ9x1...@txnews.amd.com>,
> charles...@cyberdigm.com (Charles Herrick) wrote:
> >Look, think of this analog.
> >Let's say you're a member of a Bhuddist sect, and convert a room into
> >your house as a shrine where you worship. Now, lets say you invite me
> >to your home for dinner and entertainment, and during dinner, you
> >tell me that to run into your shrine/room with Birkenstocks on is
considered
> >highly disrespectful of your religious sect's beliefs/traditions.
> >So, right after you feed me dinner and entertain me, I jump up and
gleefully
> >run into your shrine, wearing shoes, and taunting you about it.
> >
> >Get it, sir?
>
> A better analogy would be a street gang beating up some unfortunate
souls
> who wandered onto their turf, ignoring the grafitti which told 'em to
keep
> out.
These were no unfortunate souls who wandered onto someone else's
turf, ignoring grafitti. These were t.u. thugs who deliberately,
despite being asked to stay off the field, mobilized in
an end zone, ran against a line of police and corps, pushed
through that line, and gleefully frolicked on the field,
shoving into the face of everyone just how ignorant and
abusive they could be.
> Get it, sir? Or are these gang thugs "Men" under your definition?
Yep. Men. Spelled _M_ _E_ _N_. Rarities in a culture
perverted by wimps whose agenda is to wussify as many
people as possible in their culture, so they can
can be reminded as infrequently as possible of
their shortcomings as men.
> Considering how Kyle Field is walked upon by many non-Aggies, hiding
behind
> the "sacred ground" justification is foolishness and simple cowardice,
IMO.
> The Aggie thugs screwed up, bigtime. Fortunately, their behavior (and
Mr.
> Herrick's strained rationalizations) don't reflect the attitudes of most
> Aggies I've known.
Honk, honk.
Clayton Colwell
: 3) As far as A&M did this, cry..cry..cry, BOTH schools have had
: students in the past and present that have not only violated the schools
: but each other. Not too long ago some t.u. students stole Reville from
: her keeper's home.
Um, let's compare the relative weight of kidnapping a mascot and
*cooking* a mascot. Walking on a football field and *cutting*
*large* *chunks* out of a football field.
--
Clay Colwell "I'm not just a dumb jock; I've had a whole
(aka StealthSmurf) year of college."
er...@bga.com -- dumb poolcleaner, Melrose Place
Joe Bezdek
In article <4aj3p7$o...@giga.bga.com>, er...@bga.com (Clayton Colwell) wrote:
> Um, let's compare the relative weight of kidnapping a mascot and
> *cooking* a mascot. Walking on a football field and *cutting*
> *large* *chunks* out of a football field.
>
The only time (that I can presently recall) that A&M kidnapped Bevo, he
was treated to days of wandering around succulent pastures on a ranch near
College Station. As far as the infamous "13-0" branding goes, guilty as
charged, but steers/cows/etc are branded all the time, every day, so it's
not that big a deal.
As far as the *COOKING* goes, as I recall, it's the Longhorns who cooked
the first Bevo when he died, NOT the Aggies. Although I do remember
reading that a delegation of Aggies was invited to the barbecue. :)
-- Joe
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
Joe Bezdek, TAMU '94 Manufacturing and Design Laboratory
jbe...@pobox.com University of Texas at Austin
:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::
John F. Haugh II
>> rude and disrespectful but it DOES NOT justify physical force or
>physical
>> abuse.
>
>I disagree. Given the blatant provocation, I'd say if
>there were any surprise on the faces of the t.u. students
>who got pummeled, it was naive in the extreme.
Uh, you're pulling my leg, right? Please, dear God, tell me that you are
pulling my leg.
Violence is =never= an answer. Civilized people don't behave this way.
You want to hold onto your conservative credentials, try supporting the
rule of law. Traditions at competing universities have no weight when
compared to the Texas criminal code.
--
Dustin Christmann
> charles...@cyberdigm.com (Charles Herrick) writes:
> >These were not innocent civilians. These were t.u. students who,
> >after listening to several requests by the game announcer to
> >respect an Aggie tradition, purposefully lined up on the field,
> >took a run at a line of corps and police who had lined up to
> >block access to the field, pushed aside the same, and gleefully
> >ran onto the field, deliberately to insult the school.
>
> fans stay off the field.
>
> Second, the police had nothing to do with trying to keep people off
> of the field. They merely guarded the goalposts (which were not
> touched by the way).
I (and other people) have asked the following question several times already
and have yet to receive any answer:
If the aggee corpse goon squad is so hell-fire bent on preserving the Kyle
Field "tradition," why were they nowhere to be seen when at the same time,
numerous other people were walking across it and kids were tossing a football
around on it?
Or are you willing to concede that the actions of the aggee corpse goon squad
were selective, brutal, and unjustified?
In soccer, they have a name for what the aggee corpse goon squad did:
HOOLIGANISM.
--
Live from the Big Nerd Ranch, | LonghornsAstrosRocketsOilersBurnToro
Dustin R. Christmann | sLightningTottenhamEintrachtPadovaRe
University of Texas '94 | dSoxFlamesSidekicks
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dallas Burn Home Page (primo): http://www.metronet.com/~dustin/mls/
Texas Lightning Home Page (lame): http://www.metronet.com/~dustin/lightning/
David L. Crow
>These were no unfortunate souls who wandered onto someone else's
>turf, ignoring grafitti. These were t.u. thugs who deliberately,
>despite being asked to stay off the field, mobilized in
>an end zone, ran against a line of police and corps,
The police were not in the line. It was just the corps.
--
------ Texas! It's like a whole other country. ------
David L. Crow cr...@tivoli.com
http://www.cactus.org/~crow/
jack newton
a publicly funded school? How horrible. Next they'll be trying
to get the vote, huh Herrick?
You sir are a complete ass. You are the electronic version of
the babbling denizens of the streets, whose opinions, if really
true, represent everything that is wrong with this country. You
sit there and rail against disrespect as you perceive it (at a
goddamn football game!), justify violence as an answer to that
disrespect, and then wonder why the youth of America doesn't
respect their elders? Believe me when I say that my two kids
will be raised to pity and silently laugh at people like you.
Maybe there's a nice skinhead family out there whose kids can
give you their respect.
David L. Crow
>And if discovered on it by the authorities (or a member of the corps) they
>will be asked to please leave from the field. Yes, it is only supposed to
>be used for officially sancitoned functions.
Funny, that's not what the signs and the north ramp entrance to the
stadium indicate.
>} The Corps reaction was extremely selective and extremely brutal.
>Selective, yep, they only went after fans *on* the field.
No, selective because they did not go after all fans on the field
equally. To be a young Aggie on the field was shown to be OK. To
be a UT Student on the field, was shown to not be OK.
>}
>} >However, at the north end zone, a larger group of t.u. fans
>} >charged the University police & corps members who were guarding the field
>} >and telling the to please stay off.
>}
>} The KK had absolutely nothing to do with this. Both the KK and the
>} B/CS police backed up and guarded the goalpost. This was their only
>} concern. The Corps acted all by themselves on this one.
>Gee, I never said the cops had anything to do with the beatings. Learn to
>read, asshole.
Neither did I. Maybe you should be the one to read. The police were
not guarding the field. They were not enforcing the tradition. Their
only concern was the goalposts. The Corps acted all by themselves as
self-appointed keepers-of-the-tradition. That's all I said.
>} I did not see anyone fornicating, but I don't deny that it could
>} have happened. What broke out was not "fights". It was 30-50 Corps
>} members gang tackling a single Texas fan, continually slamming his
>} head into the ground, and kicking and punching him.
>Was it really 30-50 are are you inflating just a bit?
I have asked those with me at the game to make sure I wasn't inflating,
and the consensus was that if anything, this was an understatement.
They swarmed like bees. They only thing holding them back were the
TAMC yell leaders and _some_ senior Corps members.
>} Gene Lowery (the TAMC player) told James Brown "It was a fluke. You
>} got lucky. It will never happen again". James decided not to shake
>} his hand. There was plenty of poor-sportsmanship to go around.
>}
>This is the story reported *after* it was reported that JB shunned the
>Ags. Pick which version you wish to believe.
It was not reported that JB shunned the Ags. Gene Lowery made no
public comment about it. There was a picture that was interpreted
negatively by Ags who read the Austin-American Statesman. This was
the only reporting that happened before James Brown's public comments.
David L. Crow
>As far as the *COOKING* goes, as I recall, it's the Longhorns who cooked
>the first Bevo when he died, NOT the Aggies. Although I do remember
>reading that a delegation of Aggies was invited to the barbecue. :)
Dinner before a trip to the Chicken Ranch. Man, how times have changed.
Joel Irby
>In article <DJFKG...@txnews.amd.com>, charles...@cyberdigm.com (Charles Herrick) writes:
>>>>2. They asked for it, they got it. Gig 'em.
> ^^^^^^^
>Oh, is *that* what they call a brutal mugging at A&M? At
>UT it would be called "assault & battery". At UT, we beat
^^^^^^^
Oops, I meant to write: "...we ***don't*** beat up our guests...".
Aw, man, there goes the punch-line... Well, anyway and only beat
up the guys wearing maroon uniforms this time (that's VA Tech in
the __S U G A R B O W L__ and TAMC next Thanksgiving, BTW).
>up our guests when they step on our field (except *during
>the game*, that is---Hook 'em Horns!
--Joel, flaming his own post :-)
vince
Jeffrey W. Janner <jwja...@tamu.edu> wrote:
>In article <30C736...@austin.ibm.com>, Ted Neible
><tne...@austin.ibm.com> wrote:
>} /* Ted Neible | tne...@austin.ibm.com
>} /* Works for, but does not | AUSVM6(TNEIBLE)
>} /* speak for IBM. | tne...@eworld.com
>} /******************************************************************
>
>AH, this explains the lack of working brain cells.
Where do you work, college boy? Taco Bell?
vince (Texas-16, a&m-6)
Tony Petro
Charles Herrick <charles...@cyberdigm.com> wrote:
>In article <4aj39a$b...@freeside.fc.net>,
> hac...@freeside.fc.net (Andrew Hackard) wrote:
>>
>>There are any number of universities in the UT and A&M Systems, and all of
>>them can provide a good education; the trick lies in picking the right one
>>for you and for what you want to study.
>
>Depends on what you call "an education." Certainly, if you want
>to confine the definition of the word to book learning, what
>you say is accurate. Now, if you want to expand the definition
>to include the learning of values which can be counted on
>to carry one forward as a positive, contributing member of
>the American culture, we'd have to have a different converstation.
>Especially if we were to discuss t.u., where apparently they
>teach their students that after being asked to stay off Kyle field,
>the appropriate behavior is gang up, break through a line of students
>and police, and run on the field anyway.
I'm curious, Chuck: you know nothing about me, yet you're prepared to
make a value judgment about my ability to be a "positive, contributing
member of the American culture" based on the fact that one of my
degrees happens to be from UT?
>>I respect A&M's richness of tradition; I just don't want mass assault and
>>institutionalized violence to become one of them.
>
>Then stay off Kyle field. It's as simple as that.
I can understand how emotions can run very high regarding traditions.
However, there seems to me to be a problem with teaching values that
state that it's ok to beat people up who piss you off. All that stuff
about "man as rational animal" and so forth. Granted, that view seems
lost in the noise today, but I don't think there's an awful lot of
pride that can be taken on either side where one group violates
another and the violated retaliate with force. There have been
justifiable wars, but war is ugly, and that it occurs at all should be
a reflection on the imperfection of humanity.
I think that justice could have been served in this case. Like Chuck
said, those UT students who trespassed on Kyle Field should be
administratively punished for poor conduct at a school function
(although I think expulsion is a bit much particularly in cases where
there was no other offense, e.g. assault). Same goes for any
Aggies/Corps members who engaged in violence. I also think that any
parties present (UT or A&M) responsible for physical harm to anyone
should have been charged with criminal assault.
>
>>(For the record, I
>>think running onto Kyle Field was stupid.)
>
>Funny how few of y'all say this, and when you
>do, it's always as an afterthought.
Wasn't an afterthought to me. Maybe I'm not a true Longhorn (having
attended UT only for graduate school) but the amount of venom on both
sides of the rivalry saddens me. Having been raised outside the
context of this rivalry, I can see that there are plenty of things in
the world that are more important than whether you went to UT or A&M.
Heresy, I know. Oh well.
tony
--
Anthony M. Petro (512) 602-2672
Advanced Processor Engineering (800) 538-8450 x52672
Advanced Micro Devices, Austin, TX FAX: (512) 602-7741
tony....@amd.com My opinions, not AMD's.
Charles Herrick
jwja...@tamu.edu (Jeffrey W. Janner) wrote:
..
>Selective, yep, they only went after fans *on* the field. Brutal,
>unfortunately. Once again FTR: I am disappointed and embarassed (again)
>by the actions of the Corps of Cadets. And I fully agree that proper
>legal inquiries could & should be made on all sides of the event. (felt
>that needed to be said as some are painting me as defenders of these
>idiots.)
I tell you what, let's start by seeing
the t.u. authorities hunt down the
t.u. students who ran on the field,
charge them with something serious,
kick them out of school, follow that
with a resounding criticism of the
behavior of the t.u. students in
the Austin press and on austin.general,
and then let's sit down and talk about
what legal inquiries would be appropriately
directed towards any Corps members.
FYI, I'm not going to hold my breath
on this one. I doubt there's enough
honor around these parts to fill
a thimble.
---
My comments above are offered solely as my personal opinions.
I speak for no one but myself at all times.
Right to copy my comments in any form other than netnews and email
is expressly forbidden, including any form of print or visual
journalism. This restriction includes any part of my statements
quoted by anyone anywhere else.
I retain the right to copyright my statements.
Charles Herrick
hac...@freeside.fc.net (Andrew Hackard) wrote:
>Charles Herrick <charles...@cyberdigm.com> wrote:
>
>>>Ah, now I understand(except for why an aggie would move to Austin).
>>>Odd that the aggies use a large piece of carpet to represent their
>>>war dead. Maybe you exes can finance a wall for them instead.
>
>>Sorry, pal, but there are no ex-aggies. Once and aggie, always
>>an aggie. It's your school that takes such pride in calling
>>yourselves ex-something.
>
>Yeah...Ex-Students. I can understand where this distinction would escape
>one such as yourself.
Funny. I'm not surprised that the subtlety of "there is no such thing
as an _EX_aggie" escapes you.
>>>vince(The University - '84)
>
>>Therr is only one University _OF_ Texas,
>>and it's located in College Station.
>
>There are any number of universities in the UT and A&M Systems, and all of
>them can provide a good education; the trick lies in picking the right one
>for you and for what you want to study.
Depends on what you call "an education." Certainly, if you want
to confine the definition of the word to book learning, what
you say is accurate. Now, if you want to expand the definition
to include the learning of values which can be counted on
to carry one forward as a positive, contributing member of
the American culture, we'd have to have a different converstation.
Especially if we were to discuss t.u., where apparently they
teach their students that after being asked to stay off Kyle field,
the appropriate behavior is gang up, break through a line of students
and police, and run on the field anyway.
Yeah. Tomorrow's American leaders, indeed.
These mobsters aren't qualified for anything higher than
the Austin City Council.
>I respect A&M's richness of tradition; I just don't want mass assault and
>institutionalized violence to become one of them.
Then stay off Kyle field. It's as simple as that.
>(For the record, I
>think running onto Kyle Field was stupid.)
Funny how few of y'all say this, and when you
do, it's always as an afterthought.
Charles Herrick
jfh@rpp386 (John F. Haugh II) wrote:
>In article <DJFKn...@txnews.amd.com> charles...@cyberdigm.com (Charles
Herrick) writes:
>>In article <30C89D...@tivoli.com>, jack newton <jne...@tivoli.com>
wrote:
>>>Betcha Charles was proud of those Citadel guys whooping it up
>>>when Faulkner left.
>>
>>Absolutely.
>
>Why? Because she was a woman, or because she was a poser?
Because she never intended to become
a member of the Citadel corps. Because she was fat and lazy.
Because she didn't have what it took. Because she was there
only to push a Feminist agenda. Because she had 2+ years to
get into shape, and chose not to. Because she posed herself up
as a pioneer, and when the wagon got to the first rut, she
ran. Because she was a loser and a quitter and a whiner.
I could go on, but if you read the above, you'll see that
nowhere do I justify my support of the Citadel students
by referencing her gender.
However, lest things become confused, I don't think
they should let women into the Citadel.
But then, hey,
if I were a woman, and the school were Mills College
in Oakland, or Texas Womens in Dallas, let me take
this opportunity to ask you, Mr Conservative, just
what would the content be of your ripost? Can you
cut from your previous posts your commentary on the
behavior of the women at Mills College in Oakland, Calif,
when the female students bullied the school administrators
into backing down from their decision to admit men, and
gleefully cheered and partied when the decision was made?
Let's just see how consistent your core principles are.
Charles Herrick
pe...@nucleus.amd.com (Tony Petro) wrote:
>In article <DJJ9o...@txnews.amd.com>,
>Charles Herrick <charles...@cyberdigm.com> wrote:
>>In article <4aj39a$b...@freeside.fc.net>,
>> hac...@freeside.fc.net (Andrew Hackard) wrote:
>>>
>>>There are any number of universities in the UT and A&M Systems, and all of
>>>them can provide a good education; the trick lies in picking the right one
>>>for you and for what you want to study.
>>
>>Depends on what you call "an education." Certainly, if you want
>>to confine the definition of the word to book learning, what
>>you say is accurate. Now, if you want to expand the definition
>>to include the learning of values which can be counted on
>>to carry one forward as a positive, contributing member of
>>the American culture, we'd have to have a different converstation.
>>Especially if we were to discuss t.u., where apparently they
>>teach their students that after being asked to stay off Kyle field,
>>the appropriate behavior is gang up, break through a line of students
>>and police, and run on the field anyway.
>
>make a value judgment about my ability to be a "positive, contributing
>member of the American culture" based on the fact that one of my
>degrees happens to be from UT?
There are exceptions to every rule, and I'm sure you are one.
Actually, I think that t.u. academically is a great school.
And, before someone careens off out of control, I think
the t.u. hooligans who ran onto Kyle Field were the exceptions.
I just happen to think that if you want to hold one school
up against another as a pardigm of cultural values, as have
many, many others here in this newsgroup, not many of whom
profess to finding TAMU a paragon, t.u. does not
hold a candle to TAMU. It's an opinion. I've got mine, and
you have yours. Welcome to Austin.general.
>>>I respect A&M's richness of tradition; I just don't want mass assault and
>>>institutionalized violence to become one of them.
Mass assault and institutionalized violence are not A&M traditions.
What happened to the t.u. mobsters who, after being politely
requested to stay off the field, mobbed the line of students and
police, forcing them aside in order to run on the field, gleefully
insulting Aggies, was neither mass assault, nor was it institutionalized
violence. It was a swift and appropriate reaction to a deliberate insult,
in an incident that was wholy fabricated and started by some t.u. students,
and has now come to be deliberately distorted by t.u. supporters here.
>>Then stay off Kyle field. It's as simple as that.
>
>I can understand how emotions can run very high regarding traditions.
>However, there seems to me to be a problem with teaching values that
>state that it's ok to beat people up who piss you off.
Your reality-distortion field is hard at work.
you're not going to get away with it.
No one was beat up for pissing someone else off. No one was beat
for walking on grass. No one was beat for saying bad things about
TAMU. No one was beat for any act of speech.
They were beat
because they were invited to Kyle Field for a football game,
one which t.u. won fair and square, were asked politely not
to stay off the field, deliberately massed in front of a line
of students and police who were lined up to deny access to the
field, rushed the line, pushed aside the line, assaulted the
students in the line, and frolicked
on the field in order to exacerbate the insult.
This was a mighty, mighty long way from "piss someone off."
And you know it.
Frankly I'm amazed at how much effort is being invested into
distorting the reality field, purposely trying to minimize/glorify
the activities of the t.u. students, while trying to
demonize/exaggerate the actions of Aggies.
It's called media spin, and it's as worthless and dishonest as the efforts
of the Calvin Klein company to justify their child-porn advertisements.
Not the same, but just as dishonorable.
>All that stuff
>about "man as rational animal" and so forth. Granted, that view seems
>lost in the noise today, but I don't think there's an awful lot of
>pride that can be taken on either side where one group violates
>another and the violated retaliate with force.
Well, now we differ.
I happen to think there would be a lot less
initial violation if people had to remind
themselves "hey, if I really go way, way over the
line here and start something, I can't count
on the person I violate to mutter something
like "Thank you, sir, may I have another?""
>There have been
>justifiable wars, but war is ugly, and that it occurs at all should be
>a reflection on the imperfection of humanity.
Hogwash. An unjustifiable war is certainly a reflection on
the imperfection of humanity. A justifiable war, on the other
hand, is most certainly a reflection on the honor of humanity,
and on the honor of those who gave the ultimate sacrifice in
the fighting of it... which, interestingly, is the point about
the Aggie tradition of Kyle Field.
>I think that justice could have been served in this case. Like Chuck
>said, those UT students who trespassed on Kyle Field should be
>administratively punished for poor conduct at a school function
>(although I think expulsion is a bit much particularly in cases where
>there was no other offense, e.g. assault). Same goes for any
>Aggies/Corps members who engaged in violence. I also think that any
>parties present (UT or A&M) responsible for physical harm to anyone
>should have been charged with criminal assault.
The t.u. students who ran against the line of students and
police who were lined up to deny access to the field were
guilty of assault, and more. For that, they should have been prosecuted, and
kicked out of school at the least. T.u. should have apologized to
TAMU for their actions. T.u. should have shut down for a day, and
held sensitivity sessions in which the entire student body was
reminded of the poor citizenship and personal dishonor
displayed by the t.u. students
who charged/assaulted the line, and ran onto the field.
T.u. professors and administrators should have signed a
public statement saying "This is not the t.u. way, and
we will not tolerate such dishonorable behavior in
our students." I'm waiting.
When t.u. grows up, and endeavors to commit itself to honor, and
to enthusiastically supporting good citizenship, personal honor, and
higher, traditional American cultural values, you will find
reactions to the actions of the few, which reflect on the many,
may be entirely different. Until then, knowing just how little
of a commitment there is to doing the honorable thing, the
reaction was appropriate.
>>>(For the record, I
>>>think running onto Kyle Field was stupid.)
>>
>>Funny how few of y'all say this, and when you
>>do, it's always as an afterthought.
>
>Wasn't an afterthought to me. Maybe I'm not a true Longhorn (having
>attended UT only for graduate school)
What a weird culture. Once you don't go there anymore, you're an "ex."
If you went to graduate school, you not a "true."
>but the amount of venom on both
>sides of the rivalry saddens me. Having been raised outside the
>context of this rivalry, I can see that there are plenty of things in
>the world that are more important than whether you went to UT or A&M.
True. And this thread is about none of them.
Which ones would you like to discuss now, and
if we're going to hit one, let's change the
Subject: header line and go for it.
Charles Herrick
"Jeong H. Han" <jeon...@goofy.cc.utexas.edu> wrote:
>> A better analogy would be a street gang beating up some unfortunate
>> souls who wandered onto their turf, ignoring the grafitti which told 'em to
>> keep out.
>
>[mindless herrick stuff deleted]
>> Get it, sir? Or are these gang thugs "Men" under your definition?
>>
>> Yep. Men. Spelled _M_ _E_ _N_. Rarities in a culture
>> perverted by wimps whose agenda is to wussify as many
>> people as possible in their culture, so they can
>> can be reminded as infrequently as possible of
>> their shortcomings as men.
>
>field) by the hair?
Did this happen, Jeong? Would you like to profess that during the game,
when women cheerleaders were allowed on the field sidelines, they
were jumped and dragged by the hair? Frankly, I think the field lines
from your reality-distortion field are showing.
>like drawing swords against an unarmed smu crowd a
>few years back.
We're not talking about any SMU incidents here, Jeong. We're
talking about what happened on Kyle Field after the recent
t.u.-TAMU game. Grab a hand rail or something, and try to
avoid careening out of control here.
>if such barbarianism is your definition of MEN, i for
>one, am glad that i am shortcoming.
I have a comment, but I'm going to swallow it.
>gee whiz, herrick. how do you eat with your foot in your mouth all the
>time? it's a scary thought to find people who do not realize what they
>are advocating (as shown in the above statement). on second thought, it is
>even more frightening to think that they actually do realize what they are
>advocating.
honk honk.
Chris White
>In article <4akol8$m...@talos4.sps.mot.com>,
> ho...@oakhill.sps.mot.com (Don House-SunService) wrote:
>>In article <DJFKG...@txnews.amd.com>,
>>Charles Herrick <charles...@cyberdigm.com> wrote:
>>
>>>This was a mob of tea-sips, not innocent civilians, and as such,
>>>I'd say they got much less than they deserve.
>>
>
>two wrongs make a right? Does a t.u'er feel she has the right
>to behave like a cretin because someone somewhere else behaved
>like a cretin?
Gee, Charles, I thought this was your point exactly.
All along you've been contending that Texas A&M thuggery
was justified by University of Texas disrespect (being careful
to be disrespectful to the University at every opportunity).
So what's your point? If it's done right away, it's okay?
Catching them red-handed is the moral key?
Now, your argument is logically inconsistent as well as morally
backward. I'm sure if this thread persists you'll commit any
number of errors to avoid admitting that your zealous defense
has been ill-considered.
Cut your losses. Say mea culpa and be done with it.
--
Chris White
/\\|/ / e-mail: chris...@mail.utexas.edu
^ OOo-_/ Pragmatic Progressive Scorpio.
v_//|\
jack newton
>....I could go on, but if you read the above, you'll see that
> nowhere do I justify my support of the Citadel students
> by referencing her gender.
>
> However, lest things become confused, I don't think
> they should let women into the Citadel.
HYPOCRISY ALERT!
Oh, Chuckie, you are too wacky for words. In one sentence you
say that you condemn Faulkner because she was fat and lazy but
not because she is a woman, then you next say you don't support
a woman's right to attend a publicly funded school. Come on, if
you're really gonna be a myopic neanderthal, be consistent.
By the way, while I do support the right for anyone to attend
any publicly funded school (men, women, whatever), Faulkner was
a particularly lame "pioneer". I just couldn't get the image of
a bunch of burr-headed cadets having a celebratory circle jerk
out of my mind. I come from a family of military men (men - my
definition, not yours thank god) who believe in honor and
service and all the things you profess to promote. I was raised
to respect all people, and that violence was the answer to only
the most egregious offenses. If you truly believe that walking
on Astroturf is punishable by assualt - well, I don't believe
you really think that. You appear to be just another pathetic
soul who trolls out spew to get a reaction. I guess you have
succeeded admirably. While I have noticed many UT vs. A&M
threads here, I have seen no one support your obviously wacko
postion. It must be lonely. Ever read Don Quixote? (sp?)
William S. Gribble
> This isn't about football. It's about honor.
> T.u. has the SWC conference championship for '95.
> It is arguable whether they have any of the latter.
You guys crack me up. Do you get this excited about the Bud Bowl,
too? You know, I heard that the Bud Light 12-pack is dedicated to all
those ``dead soldiers'' that fill up the great recycling bin in the
sky, but these loutish Bud fans SPILLED OUT ALL OVER THE PLACE at the
last Bud Bowl. Then the Bud Light Tallboys (a spirit organization)
got out their bottle openers and started busting caps. It was
pretty ugly.
Bill Gribble
(Harvey Mudd College class of '93.
No rivalries, no frats, no memorial fields.
Boy, I never knew what I was missing. Now I
know it was HONOR! GLORY! and FIRST DOWNS!
Not to mention ``good ole fashioned ass kicking.'')