U.S. Recovery? Tell It to the Unemployed
colonel
Thu December 18, 2003 02:05 PM ET
CHARLOTTE, N.C. (Reuters) - For Diane Back, the growing U.S. economic
recovery still feels like a recession.
Her husband, Ed, and youngest son, Alan, have PhD and MBA degrees
between them but both have been out of work for months in this
prosperous banking town.
"The economy is supposed to be inching back up, but we don't see any
jobs being created. I was at a support group for job hunters last
night and that room was just full of experience and talent," she said.
Ed and Alan Back have joined a growing pool of highly skilled workers
who cannot find jobs, and their predicament highlights the risk that
economic growth without fresh employment will not last and factory
jobs are not the only ones being lost abroad.
U.S. GDP growth soared 8.2 percent in the third quarter, but only
57,000 new jobs were created last month. This needs to pick up to
support consumer spending, which has been the mainstay of the economy
since its shallow recession in 2001.
Take Charlotte, which aggressively promoted itself into the
second-largest banking city in the United States to take up the slack
from its declining furniture and textiles industries, which shed
22,000 jobs this year alone.
OUTSOURCE PAIN
Unfortunately, some of the precious new high-end jobs are now being
lost through outsourcing to cheaper locations like India, as big local
employers like Bank of America are planning a subsidiary on the
sub-continent to cut costs.
Out of Charlotte's top biggest publicly listed companies, 25 have used
outsourcing to cut costs, according to a survey taken over the last
three months and published on Sunday by the Charlotte Observer
newspaper.
"This is the hidden story of the U.S. economy. We hear all these great
numbers for growth, but in North Carolina, it's not doing great at all
for the folks without work," said Bobby Sutton, an associate dean at
the Southern Piedmont Community College which runs training course for
Charlotte's unemployed.
Manufacturers, who have born the brunt of the job losses, are up in
arms and, in particular, seek action against China, which they say
floods the market with cheap imports by pegging the yuan at an
artificially low level to the dollar.
But the official line is that layoffs and company closures are just
part of the natural "churn" that has made the American economy great.
"What we are undergoing here in the manufacturing sector in the
Carolinas is an evolution," Richmond Fed chairman Alfred Broaddus told
the Charlotte Chamber of Commerce on Monday.
"Industries in some locations diminish, other kinds of activities
replace those and that's the way our economy sort of churns itself and
maintains the extraordinary longer-run performance that has been and
is one of the real economic wonders of the world," he said.
CHINESE FLOOD
This doesn't really cut it with those experiencing the upheaval and
nor does it impress Dan DiMicco, chief executive of Nucor, the
country's largest steel producer.
"They are wrong, absolutely wrong. Forget the ivory tower theories and
just look at the evidence. The same fundamental forces that effect
manufacturing are going to effect these so-called hi-tech service
jobs," DiMicco said.
He hopes the realization of white-collar workers that they are just as
vulnerable as those in manufacturing will build into a political
backlash that forces action from Washington against China to stop it
using the yuan as a trade weapon.
"It's not sustainable, what China is doing. It is not sustainable for
the American people to keep living off of other people's loans.
Someone has got to stand up and say that enough is enough," DiMicco
told Reuters in an interview.
The U.S. trade deficit with China is forecast to rise to $125 billion
this year, while the U.S. current account deficit is nudging toward 5
percent of GDP. At the local chapter of the Association of Machinist
and Aerospace Workers union, a modest office in the flight path at the
Douglas Charlotte International Airport, they feel the same way but
doubt anything will change.
"Manufacturing is going to be completely eliminated in the U.S.
because the benefit to the corporations is too great to keep it here,"
said Will Cashion, union treasurer.
Unions have been hit by the woes of the airline industry and the July
closure of sheet and towel maker Pillowtex Corp. with the loss of
6,450 jobs, blamed on ruthless competition from abroad where wages are
a fraction of U.S. pay.
"There is no way to stop the global economy and as long as we continue
to compete with poverty stricken countries, we can't win," he said.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
December 18, 2003
Fed Jobless Benefits Program Ends Saturday
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Labor unions are trying to pressure President Bush
and the GOP-controlled Congress to approve a new extension of federal
unemployment benefits. The program expires Saturday because Congress
adjourned for the year without extending the benefits.
An average 90,000 jobless workers each week who exhaust their state
benefits after Saturday won't get the extra 13 weeks of federal aid
that others have received since March 2002, when Congress first
approved the help. Most states provide up to 26 weeks of aid to people
who lose their jobs.
``The truth is, there has not been a recovery in the labor market,''
Chris Owens, public policy director for the AFL-CIO, said Thursday.
The economy is showing signs of a strong recovery, with the
unemployment rate falling in recent months to 5.9 percent from a high
of 6.4 percent in June.
Layoffs also appear to be easing. On Thursday, the Labor Department
reported that new applications for unemployment benefits declined to
353,000, the lowest level since Nov. 1.
Republicans said extending the benefits was not necessary when
unemployment is declining.
``It's a question of whether we continue to be in an extraordinary
unemployment environment, and we are not,'' said House Republican Whip
Roy Blunt, R-Mo.
But the economy isn't creating a lot of new jobs yet. Employers have
boosted their payrolls by just 328,000 in the past four months, which
worries economists about the strength of the labor market.
About 2.3 million jobs have been lost since President Bush took
office. Long-term unemployment last month surpassed a 20-year high.
Nearly 24 percent of the jobless, or 2 million people, have been out
of work for more than six months, the highest percentage since July
1983.
``There is no justification with what is going on in the jobs market
for the president to refuse to extend this jobs program,'' Owens said.
...
Shadow_7
to, much less acquire one. Denied unemployment benefits, so extensions
mean nothing to me.
Got some money from grandpa who recently died. Torn as to whether to use
it to make my life better, or just build a big bomb and blow this sorry
excuse for a nation off the face of the planet.
We need jobs, not war.
As far as my country is concerned, I should be homeless and starving. And
baring some still living family, I would be. Thanks Bush. Can I return
the favor? Should I invite you over for shoe lace stew?
Shadow_7
Blip
is tough but true.
"colonel" <colo...@NSzz.com> wrote in message
news:3fe256e7...@news.io.com...
Chris Bellomy
: Historically, Job Recovery has always lagged behind Economic Recovery. That
: is tough but true.
Not for three years. That has never happened. Until now.
Of course, we've never had a government this indifferent to the
problem, either. If you can't afford to give George W. Bush $2000,
you don't mean shit to him.
cb
Brent P
Only 2 grand? Damn GWB is cheaper that suburban mayor!
Brent P
>
> Only 2 grand? Damn GWB is cheaper that suburban mayor!
than a
BobEW
>U.S. Recovery? Tell It to the Unemployed
>Thu December 18, 2003 02:05 PM ET
>
>CHARLOTTE, N.C. (Reuters) - For Diane Back, the growing U.S. economic
>recovery still feels like a recession.
>
>Her husband, Ed, and youngest son, Alan, have PhD and MBA degrees
>between them but both have been out of work for months in this
>prosperous banking town.
People living in a banking town need to learn something useful - like
banking.
>"The economy is supposed to be inching back up, but we don't see any
>jobs being created. I was at a support group for job hunters last
>night and that room was just full of experience and talent," she said.
>
The unemployed need to quit hanging out with other unemployed people
if they want to get a job. Unemployed people don't have jobs.
>Ed and Alan Back have joined a growing pool of highly skilled workers
>who cannot find jobs, and their predicament highlights the risk that
>economic growth without fresh employment will not last and factory
>jobs are not the only ones being lost abroad.
>
>U.S. GDP growth soared 8.2 percent in the third quarter, but only
>57,000 new jobs were created last month. This needs to pick up to
>support consumer spending, which has been the mainstay of the economy
>since its shallow recession in 2001.
>
>OUTSOURCE PAIN
>
>Unfortunately, some of the precious new high-end jobs are now being
>lost through outsourcing to cheaper locations like India, as big local
>employers like Bank of America are planning a subsidiary on the
>sub-continent to cut costs.
>
>Out of Charlotte's top biggest publicly listed companies, 25 have used
>outsourcing to cut costs, according to a survey taken over the last
>three months and published on Sunday by the Charlotte Observer
>newspaper.
>
>"This is the hidden story of the U.S. economy. We hear all these great
>numbers for growth, but in North Carolina, it's not doing great at all
>for the folks without work," said Bobby Sutton, an associate dean at
>the Southern Piedmont Community College which runs training course for
>Charlotte's unemployed.
>
>Manufacturers, who have born the brunt of the job losses, are up in
>arms and, in particular, seek action against China, which they say
>floods the market with cheap imports by pegging the yuan at an
>artificially low level to the dollar.
>
SARS will take care of China. If you don't want India or China to take
your jobs, then be proactive and get out of those jobs.
>
>But the economy isn't creating a lot of new jobs yet. Employers have
>boosted their payrolls by just 328,000 in the past four months, which
>worries economists about the strength of the labor market.
>
>About 2.3 million jobs have been lost since President Bush took
>office. Long-term unemployment last month surpassed a 20-year high.
>Nearly 24 percent of the jobless, or 2 million people, have been out
>of work for more than six months, the highest percentage since July
>1983.
>
They haven't looked hard enough.
M. Paul
Nobody OWES you anything. go make your own way, and quit whining.
~ mp
"BobEW" <Bo...@law.com> wrote in message
news:3fe292bc...@news.io.com...
Randy Howard
@boxNOSPAMfrog.com says...
> Got some money from grandpa who recently died. Torn as to whether to use
> it to make my life better, or just build a big bomb and blow this sorry
> excuse for a nation off the face of the planet.
If you were resourceful enough to actually do that, you wouldn't be
unemployed. I'm sure the Homeland Defense crowd is going to be
real worried about a professional whiner that won't even take a
job in Home Depot telling people where the ring shank nails are
located.
> We need jobs, not war.
The greatest economic expansions and technological growth periods
in history have all been immediately following large-scale wars.
Maybe that means we need a bigger war.
> As far as my country is concerned, I should be homeless and starving.
With your attitude, I agree.
> And baring some still living family, I would be.
In other words, you'd be homeless, or mooch off the family before
you would take a job "below your importance". Right. Makes
total sense.
--
Randy Howard _o
2reply remove FOOBAR \<,
______________________()/ ()______________________________________________
SCO Spam-magnet: postm...@sco.com
leslie
: Historically, Job Recovery has always lagged behind Economic Recovery.
But this recession has set new records...
http://www.epinet.org/content.cfm/briefingpapers_bp146
Understanding the severity of the current labor slump
"...Jobs have not fallen for so long since the monthly payroll data series
began in 1939. In each of the 10 recessions since 1945, the job total
hit bottom within six to 17 months and had fully recovered within 10
to 31 months. In contrast, the lowest point thus far in the current
slump came 28 months after the recession began and jobs remained down
1.8% in October 2003, 31 months after the start of the recession..."
Don't look for improvement -- many jobs are not coming back:
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/dec2003/nf20031215_8942_db046.htm
BW Online | December 15, 2003 | Corporate America's Silent Partner: India
--Jerry Leslie
Note: les...@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email
Chicago Paddling-Fishing
No, the card we got listed $1000 as max (at least in the checkbox section)...
Had a big photo of George W and Laura Bush in it.
--
John Nelson
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Chicago Area Paddling/Fishing Page
http://www.chicagopaddling.org http://www.chicagofishing.org
(A Non-Commercial Web Site: No Sponsors, No Paid Ads and Nothing to Sell)
Chicago Paddling-Fishing
: There will always be 'victims' and people who don't give nor take excuses.
: Nobody OWES you anything. go make your own way, and quit whining.
Well, that I guess is true.
A friend called me up on Monday when he read a story... It said a company
was moving it's unskilled computer programming jobs to India but keeping
it's highly skilled project management jobs in the U.S. . He's a retired
programmer and we both had a good laugh knowing that the project managers
are nearly always totally opposite, primarily badgers who follow a checklist,
then we began speculating that this may well be the same spin we heard in the
80's when they said all those "unskilled" factory jobs were leaving... They
are just setting the mood so it won't seem so bad...
Perhaps they were a bit more skilled craftsman than we realized...
Project managers should probably worry as well, there will only be a short
time before upper management realizes that it can hire 10 PMs in India for
the same price as one in the U.S. (and get change for their $1 bill).
Shadow_7
> if they want to get a job. Unemployed people don't have jobs.
Well, there in lays the problem. Those with jobs hang out at the bar and
buy things like beer. Us unemployed types don't have the money to buy
beer. So who else are we gonna hang out with?
> SARS will take care of China. If you don't want India or China to take
> your jobs, then be proactive and get out of those jobs.
What's your job field? I'm sure the 2,000,000 plus people would like to
force you out of your job. Or at least force you to take a 50% pay cut
because of the supply and demand of "your" field.
> They haven't looked hard enough.
I can look for life on mars my entire life. But if it just doesn't
exists, looking harder aint gonna make my search any more successful.
Shadow_7
Chris Bellomy
: In chi.general Chris Bellomy <pu...@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote:
: : In dfw.politics Blip <Juanbl...@stock.com> wrote:
: : : Historically, Job Recovery has always lagged behind Economic Recovery. That
: : : is tough but true.
:
: : Not for three years. That has never happened. Until now.
:
: : Of course, we've never had a government this indifferent to the
: : problem, either. If you can't afford to give George W. Bush $2000,
: : you don't mean shit to him.
:
: No, the card we got listed $1000 as max (at least in the checkbox section)...
: Had a big photo of George W and Laura Bush in it.
The limit is $2000 until the convention, at which point you can
give $2000 again.
cb
Blip
"Chris Bellomy" <pu...@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote in message
news:0Tt0h6n...@redshark.goodshow.net...
That is a bald face unverifiable lie! I am a small contributor (wish I could
give 2000)
and I do mean something to him!
bat
CPF> section)... Had a big photo of George W and Laura Bush in it.
and if you pay, then what happens? (other than his chance for the 2nd term
increases by your contribuion)
bat
B> Recovery. That is tough but true.
I suspect that this economic recovery is based on the increased profits of
CEO's due to that very offshoping and elimination of the jobs as well as of
the expenses on the ecology etc. Does not seem to translate into more jobs
here. Maybe for India.
bat
CPF> India
how can computer programming jobs be unskilled?
Moorehead Johnson
> Unemployed 14+ months now. Can't even find any attractive jobs to apply
> to, much less acquire one. Denied unemployment benefits, so extensions
> mean nothing to me.
>
> Got some money from grandpa who recently died. Torn as to whether to use
> it to make my life better, or just build a big bomb and blow this sorry
> excuse for a nation off the face of the planet.
With an attitude like that, no wonder no is giving you a job. Who
wants to work with a WHINER?
>
> We need jobs, not war.
Unemployment is down, jobs are available and job opportunities are out
there for those who don't think the world owes them a living. Stop
whining, get off your fat ass, and start acting like an adult rather
than a spoiled child.
MJ
gorf
news:pan.2003.12.19....@boxNOSPAMfrog.com...
> baring some still living family, I would be. Thanks Bush. Can I return
> the favor? Should I invite you over for shoe lace stew?
http://www.usatoday.com/news/ndsmon09.htm
This was the first sign of problems that I am aware of and it came before
GWB even took office. The job market was in for a beating regardless of who
won the presidency. I personally would have preferred somebody other than
republican/democrat/green candidates to take office, but that would not have
prevented the slump in the economy as the damage had already been done.
You should be looking at the greedy executives and other elitists who give
themselves $100k bonuses to retain their valuable selves while they lay
people off in an effort to cut costs. You should look at the corporate
fraud that caused entire companies to disappear. You should examine the
careless corporate spending that took place during the then-thriving
economy.
I've said this before and I still believe it. Whether you vote democrat or
republican, you still end up supporting someone who will allow some small
segments of the population, whether it be oil tycoons or hollywood
executives, to remain unbelievably rich while the masses continue to quibble
over the financial scraps. The democrats might want to normalize incomes
among the non-rich and the republicans might allow a class system within the
non-rich class, but either way you still have an elite rich class that
controls a significant percentage of the nation's resources.
--
gorf
Shadow_7
> would take a job "below your importance". Right. Makes total sense.
In other words. I am 30+, I need a job that will last and hopefully
provide me some sort of retirement, So far I haven't found such a job.
And my many skills are otherwise unused. Not that any one job could use
all of my skills. But it would be nice to have at least one job. I
really don't want to be one of the 65yo waiters who work three jobs, and
still can't afford their prescriptions.
At this rate social security sure as hell aint gonna be around when I
retire. Hell, I paid 23K in taxes last year and couldn't even get 6K back
in unemployment. Now I can't even find a job making 23K a year. I don't
think Bush can afford to buy my vote at this point. I just hope the
democratic party hopefull isn't Hitler re-incarnate. Although even if he
was, it'd still be a coin toss.
Shadow_7
Carlos Trevino
"Chicago Paddling-Fishing" <j...@ripco.com> wrote in message
news:bruoqr$b31$3...@e250.ripco.com...
> In chi.general M. Paul <mikel...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> : There will always be 'victims' and people who don't give nor take
excuses.
> : Nobody OWES you anything. go make your own way, and quit whining.
>
> Well, that I guess is true.
>
> A friend called me up on Monday when he read a story... It said a company
> was moving it's unskilled computer programming jobs to India but keeping
> it's highly skilled project management jobs in the U.S. . He's a retired
> programmer and we both had a good laugh knowing that the project managers
> are nearly always totally opposite, primarily badgers who follow a
checklist,
> then we began speculating that this may well be the same spin we heard in
the
> 80's when they said all those "unskilled" factory jobs were leaving...
They
> are just setting the mood so it won't seem so bad...
>
> Perhaps they were a bit more skilled craftsman than we realized...
>
> Project managers should probably worry as well, there will only be a short
> time before upper management realizes that it can hire 10 PMs in India for
> the same price as one in the U.S. (and get change for their $1 bill).
>
> --
> John Nelson
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
---
The sad truth is that the US is just another country in the phenomena known
as
globalization. Our leaders do not have as much control as we like to
believe in
controlling our job market. Fact, we will continue to lose jobs abroad and
the standard
of living for the average American will continue to decline.
We have reached the ceiling of growth in most industries. Global
corporations have
merged to become powerhouses that erase national borders and influence
governments
policy only to benefit the corporate bottom line. Thanks to these
corporations through the
use of high-tech computer softwares, hardwares and telecommunications third
world countries
can now compete with the mighty US. It's simply amazing what man has
accomplished in only
100 years from the first flight of man.
--
Carlos Trevino
Adam Weiss
> On Fri, 19 Dec 2003 01:40:26 GMT, colo...@NSzz.com (colonel) wrote:
>
>
>>U.S. Recovery? Tell It to the Unemployed
>>Thu December 18, 2003 02:05 PM ET
>>
>>CHARLOTTE, N.C. (Reuters) - For Diane Back, the growing U.S. economic
>>recovery still feels like a recession.
>>
>>Her husband, Ed, and youngest son, Alan, have PhD and MBA degrees
>>between them but both have been out of work for months in this
>>prosperous banking town.
>
>
> People living in a banking town need to learn something useful - like
> banking.
Americans need to go into fields whose jobs are difficult for CEOs to
ship abroad. The service sector isn't the only one. There's also
healthcare, the building industry, and others.
Moreover, with the correct education one can get a specialized job in
the service sector - chef at a restaurant for example - and be paid a
living wage.
I must add also that a degree can never be the be-all end-all of ones
qualifications for a job in their chosen career. The only way one can
get a job that way is to be looking when the job market is extremely
good. Seems to me that the Backs of the Reuters article are learning
that the hard way.
Barry
"Shadow_7" <Shad...@boxNOSPAMfrog.com> wrote in message
news:pan.2003.12.19....@boxNOSPAMfrog.com...
> to, much less acquire one. Denied unemployment benefits, so extensions
> mean nothing to me.
>
> Got some money from grandpa who recently died. Torn as to whether to use
> it to make my life better, or just build a big bomb and blow this sorry
> excuse for a nation off the face of the planet.
> Sounds like a terrorist threat. Wonder if the FBI would be
intrested????????
bat
CT> these corporations through the
CT> use of high-tech computer softwares, hardwares and
CT> telecommunications third world countries
CT> can now compete with the mighty US.
The real reason they "can compete" is that in these countries there are no
restrictions on ecology, on labor, etc., etc., so the corporations avoid
expenses they'd incur in a civilized country.
Another reason is in the U.S. immigration policy, resulting in the decline
of the average cultural level of the consumers. Today's consumers expect
less quality and functionality than 10 years ago, so it's easier to satisfy.
bat
AW> to ship abroad. The service sector isn't the only one. There's
AW> also healthcare, the building industry, and others.
how is that going to pay for the imports of real goods?
Grumpy au Contraire
Another thought is to consider the hoops that employers must jump
through to satisfy the multitude of guv'ment requirements and
regulations. Most provide a healthy incentive to locate operations elsewhere...
--
JT
Just tooling through cyberspace in my ancient G4
inquisiti...@yahoo.com
> In article <pan.2003.12.19....@boxNOSPAMfrog.com>, Shadow_7
> @boxNOSPAMfrog.com says...
> > Got some money from grandpa who recently died. Torn as to whether to use
> > it to make my life better, or just build a big bomb and blow this sorry
> > excuse for a nation off the face of the planet.
>
> If you were resourceful enough to actually do that, you wouldn't be
> unemployed. I'm sure the Homeland Defense crowd is going to be
> real worried about a professional whiner that won't even take a
> job in Home Depot telling people where the ring shank nails are
> located.
You're right, he wouldn't be in line at TWC, but the line at TDC
>>
> The greatest economic expansions and technological growth periods
> in history have all been immediately following large-scale wars.
>
> Maybe that means we need a bigger war.
True, but the Bush Administration has set a precedent for no growth
during wartime. Amazing isn't it!
>
> > As far as my country is concerned, I should be homeless and starving.
>
> With your attitude i agree.
Yep, George wants you to starve along with millions of Americans. Make
no mistake about it.
> > And baring some still living family, I would be.
>
> In other words, you'd be homeless, or mooch off the family before
> you would take a job "below your importance". Right. Makes
> total sense.
I guess George should get back in the oil business so that he fail
again. That would be "just at the level of his importance" certainly
not below. Being President, nah! That is "way above his importance"
BJ
informing me of greatly increased sales. New business are being created.
Sorry liberals, get over it.
Bob
Chris Bellomy
: The economy is picking up very fast. I have acquaintances in retail
: informing me of greatly increased sales. New business are being created.
Consumer confidence is down. Layoffs are up.
: Sorry liberals, get over it.
No, fuck you. When we see some jobs commisserate with our education
and training, we'll get over it. Until then, take your haughty
indifference back to your country club and shove it.
cb
LarryG
news:83uEb.77$xD2...@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com...
> Historically, Job Recovery has always lagged behind Economic Recovery.
That
> is tough but true.
Historically, tough economic times, unemployment, under-employment, and
immanent starvation have launched revolutions, usually sweeping dictators
into power, and lobbing heads from the former aristocracy. Historically,
that is.
Cheers,
Larry G.
Shadow_7
> informing me of greatly increased sales. New business are being created.
> Sorry liberals, get over it.
Considering the time of year, it should be that way. I'll wait till next
month when all of the returns are in. And the corporations can't claim
record sales relative to last month(versus five years ago).
A lot of companies base their entire existence on what they do this time
of year. Which I'm still expecting to fall below expectations. As I hear
about the WalMart who just opened the biggest super store locally starting
to fire/layoff many of the people that just got hired there.
The one thing this recession is sorely lacking is the recovery portion.
From what I've heard, this recovery is taking three times longer than any
other recovery, since 1939. And the Feds are still expecting deficit
budgets due to lost tax revenues. Doesn't sound very promising to me.
Shadow_7
SteveR
Shadow_7 <Shad...@boxNOSPAMfrog.com> wrote:
> Unemployed 14+ months now. Can't even find any attractive jobs to apply
> to, much less acquire one. Denied unemployment benefits, so extensions
> mean nothing to me.
Kinda miss Jimmy Carter, do ya?
> Got some money from grandpa who recently died. Torn as to whether to use
> it to make my life better, or just build a big bomb and blow this sorry
> excuse for a nation off the face of the planet.
I suggest the latter, I hear al Qeida is looking for a few good men with
cash and motivation.
> We need jobs, not war.
War pays, sign up.
> As far as my country is concerned, I should be homeless and starving.
But not without a net connection.
At least you'll be able to publically chronicle your slow starvation. If
you plan on building that bomb, put up a pay-per-view webcam so we can
watch - just in case you screw up.
> And
> baring some still living family, I would be. Thanks Bush. Can I return
> the favor? Should I invite you over for shoe lace stew?
Prince spaghetti night, eh?
Sooner or later, you'll realize that all the unemployed in the US are
Democrats. Bush is damn clever.
Screwball McGee
"Chris Bellomy" <pu...@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote in message
Education and training today isn't a very impressive lever.
You can ask people with Master's Degrees to name the four oceans, and it's
astounding how many won't get past "Atlantic" and "Pacific".
It's very easy to find people with Bachelor's Degrees who can't add two
fractions.
I don't know what kind of job you should offer to someone who can't tell you
what 4/16 and 1/3 equals, even when you hand them a piece of paper and a
pencil. Maybe something in Streets and Sanitation.
Point
"Screwball McGee" <smc...@ohyeah.com> wrote in message
news:1r2Fb.6446$wL6...@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...
Yeah, and most don't understand the Electoral System. LOL!
>
>
>
God Bless Texas
> I don't know what kind of job you should offer to someone who can't tell
you
> what 4/16 and 1/3 equals, even when you hand them a piece of paper and a
> pencil. Maybe something in Streets and Sanitation.
Um, do you mean 4/16 *plus* 1/3?
Because I've never been able to do Boolean math on fractions either.
Chris Bellomy
:
: "Chris Bellomy" <pu...@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote in message
So, that was the plan? Sabotage the public schools, then send
professional jobs overseas after the schools produce a generation
of undereducated simpletons?
*I* don't even buy that.
cb
(7/12)
Chris Bellomy
:
: "Screwball McGee" <smc...@ohyeah.com> wrote in message
You'll love this one, since you're the supergenius with your AOLer
shorthand. LOL!
Figure out who would have won the 2000 election had the House
never capped its membership at 435 members, effectively altering
the formula for elector apportionment without formal amendment of
the Constitution.
I'm not trying to start an argument about Bush' legitimacy (or
lack thereof); I just want to see how educated you are.
cb
Point
"Chris Bellomy" <pu...@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote in message
Enough educated to have retired at 55 in 1985 Sonny.
Grumpy au Contraire
Ain't that the freakin' truth...
Grumpy au Contraire
Typical liberal logic, find a mouse hole to crawl out of...
Chris Bellomy
: "Chris Bellomy" <pu...@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote in message
: If a frog had wings.... Etc.
Ah. You have no idea where to start.
: Enough educated to have retired at 55 in 1985 Sonny.
What kind of degree do they give for that?
cb
Grumpy au Contraire
Strange you should state that since that is exactly what the liberals
have thrust upon us...
Chris Bellomy
:
:
Right. It was liberals who quit funding the schools after they
became racially integrated. Sure.
You're not terribly bright, or else you're not terribly honest.
Not sure which.
cb
Shadow_7
>
> What kind of degree do they give for that?
Certificate of Death
(Since that's about the only way anyone is going to retire these days.)
S7
(wondering why that makes me think of this big IT certification thing?)
(Something like "Get certified! goarmy.com ")
Grumpy au Contraire
Yep, just as I figured... Poor money on the problem instead of fixing
it. You guys just never fail to amaze me.
<sigh>
mh
Based on your response, I'd have to say that the answer to Chris's
question is "both."
Jordan Bettis
> Yep, just as I figured... Poor money on the problem instead of fixing
> it. You guys just never fail to amaze me.
DANGER, WILL ROBINSON! DANGER!
If it's just as you figured, it wouldn't amaze you.
HTH HAFD FOAD YDF
--
Jordan Bettis <http://www.hafd.org/~jordanb>
A good system can't have a weak command language.
-- Alan J Perlis: Epigrams in Programming, ACM SIGPLAN 1982
inquisiti...@yahoo.com
Bush took the helm. Going to Iraq made matters worse.
inquisiti...@yahoo.com
"Screwball McGee" <smc...@ohyeah.com> wrote in message news:<1r2Fb.6446$wL6...@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net>...
Screwball McGee
<inquisiti...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1d06a7b3.03122...@posting.google.com...
> It's obviously impressive enough that many big companies are asking for
it.
>
Sure they're asking for it. When the quality of a diploma has fallen, the
only way to maintain the same level of productivity is to require higher
education for the same job. They're inflating their educational demands just
to keep their workforce at the same productivity level.
When a company president wanted a secretary in the past, he put an ad in the
paper that said "high school diploma required". He got a pool of candidates
who could type his letters with the spelling knowledge they kept in their
head, and keep his expense account straight in a ledger book..
Today, he crosses his fingers and hopes he'll get someone with that same
brainpower in a pool of Bachelor Degress.
The big companies aren't impressed. They're staying afloat.
Chris Bellomy
: news:1d06a7b3.03122...@posting.google.com...
: > It's obviously impressive enough that many big companies are asking for
: it.
: >
:
: Sure they're asking for it. When the quality of a diploma has fallen, the
: only way to maintain the same level of productivity is to require higher
: education for the same job. They're inflating their educational demands just
: to keep their workforce at the same productivity level.
Let's keep in mind that you're talking about the same workforce
that built the Internet that you're using right now.
Indian engineers didn't put this together.
The Japanese didn't either.
Americans did it.
And your answer to their growing joblessness is to call their
skills inadquate.
cb
Grumpy au Contraire
Jordan Bettis wrote:
>
> Grumpy au Contraire <Gru...@doofis.FAKEcom> writes:
>
> > Yep, just as I figured... Poor money on the problem instead of fixing
> > it. You guys just never fail to amaze me.
>
> DANGER, WILL ROBINSON! DANGER!
>
> If it's just as you figured, it wouldn't amaze you.
>
> HTH HAFD FOAD YDF
>
>
Another non thinker...
Grumpy au Contraire
So now we jump from secretaries to engineers, eh? What a freakin'
genius, cain't even follow along, can you?
Chris Bellomy
: Another non thinker...
Good sig. Appropriate.
cb
Chris Bellomy
: >
: > In dfw.politics Screwball McGee <smc...@ohyeah.com> wrote:
: > :
: > : <inquisiti...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
: > : news:1d06a7b3.03122...@posting.google.com...
: > : > It's obviously impressive enough that many big companies are asking for
: > : it.
: > : >
: > :
: > : Sure they're asking for it. When the quality of a diploma has fallen, the
: > : only way to maintain the same level of productivity is to require higher
: > : education for the same job. They're inflating their educational demands just
: > : to keep their workforce at the same productivity level.
: >
: > Let's keep in mind that you're talking about the same workforce
: > that built the Internet that you're using right now.
: >
: > Indian engineers didn't put this together.
: >
: > The Japanese didn't either.
: >
: > Americans did it.
: >
: > And your answer to their growing joblessness is to call their
: > skills inadquate.
: So now we jump from secretaries to engineers, eh?
No jump. We were talking about the exportation of American jobs
overseas. A great many of those jobs are of various types of
computer professionals, including engineers.
These are my friends and former co-workers I'm talking about,
so I take this a little personally.
Was that really the best answer you could muster?
cb
Randy Howard
> > The unemployed need to quit hanging out with other unemployed people
> > if they want to get a job. Unemployed people don't have jobs.
>
> Well, there in lays the problem. Those with jobs hang out at the bar and
> buy things like beer. Us unemployed types don't have the money to buy
> beer. So who else are we gonna hang out with?
>
> > SARS will take care of China. If you don't want India or China to take
> > your jobs, then be proactive and get out of those jobs.
>
> What's your job field? I'm sure the 2,000,000 plus people would like to
> force you out of your job. Or at least force you to take a 50% pay cut
> because of the supply and demand of "your" field.
>
> > They haven't looked hard enough.
>
> I can look for life on mars my entire life. But if it just doesn't
> exists, looking harder aint gonna make my search any more successful.
>
> Shadow_7
>
I know of a company that is going to hire 20+ tech people come early
January. Guess who they won't be calling?
--
Randy Howard _o
2reply remove FOOBAR \<,
______________________()/ ()______________________________________________
SCO Spam-magnet: postm...@sco.com
Randy Howard
@boxNOSPAMfrog.com says...
> > would take a job "below your importance". Right. Makes total sense.
>
> In other words. I am 30+, I need a job that will last and hopefully
> provide me some sort of retirement, So far I haven't found such a job.
Like I said, you'd rather beg off friends and relatives than take a job
to keep food on the table while waiting for something better. Thanks
for proving my point so effectively.
> And my many skills are otherwise unused. Not that any one job could use
> all of my skills.
Clearly.
> But it would be nice to have at least one job. I really don't want to be
> one of the 65yo waiters who work three jobs, and still can't afford their
> prescriptions.
You've got 35 years to whine about that one before it comes true. What
are you going to do BESIDES THAT in the meantime?
> At this rate social security sure as hell aint gonna be around when I
> retire.
I figured that out 20 years ago, and never planned on relying on a single
dime from SS.
> Hell, I paid 23K in taxes last year and couldn't even get 6K back
> in unemployment.
Unemployment shouldn't even exist.
> democratic party hopefull isn't Hitler re-incarnate. Although even if he
> was, it'd still be a coin toss.
You mean "she" don't you?
Randy Howard
inquisiti...@yahoo.com says...
> Yep, George wants you to starve along with millions of Americans. Make
> no mistake about it.
When's the last time you saw a million Americans walking around
UNDERweight? Hell, most of the population is so fat they could
live off of water and salt tablets for 6 months.
You insult real starvation elsewhere by pretending like it
is happening here.
Screwball McGee
"Chris Bellomy" <pu...@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote in message
Don't look for any political or economic conspiracy. This is just
run-of-the-mill fat, sloppy, laziness. If anything, cheap diplomas today
are due to an inability to stay with any plan. Here's an example.
In 1988 the Carpenter's Union brought in a batch of 100+ applicants to take
their carpenter's apprentice program entrance exam. The exam was basic
math, word comprehension, etc. The meat and potatos that should get you out
of high school.
At the beginning of the test it was announced that those who passed the test
would be allowed to start apprentice school.
At the end of the test it was established that of the 100+ who took the
test, only NINE passed it. Because there was no way they could start a new
class with only 9 apprentices, they watered it down and said they'd also
take those who failed by X number of points. In that way they brought the
class up to the 60 or so that they needed.
The old plan of filling an apprentice class with applicants who didn't need
remedial math had to be dropped.
The Carpenters aren't culturally prepared to say that only Bachelor's
Degrees may apply for apprenticeship. But when the HR people at General
Sprockets get tired of wasting their time with assembly people who can't
read the manual for operating the machinery, they say "All right, raise the
educational requirements to Bachelor's Degree. We're not getting anywhere
like this."
If professionals here are seeing their job go overseas, it may be due to the
fact that corporations can't find qualified labor here without inflating
their educational requirements even further than they already have.
Grumpy au Contraire
You nailed it! The same goes for "passing" grades to advance to the
next level in public schools. The "dumbing down" process has been going
on at various intensities since the mid 1960's when affirmative action,
quotas, etc became the rule of day. But mention any of this, the
liberals immediately brand you as racist and other name calling.
Throwing money on the problem is NOT the answer. Fundamental change in
procedure is...
Grumpy au Contraire
My answer directly addressed your comparison which was flawed.
John R. Strohm
The problem is that General Sprockets can't do that. There aren't enough people
with Bachelor's Degrees who are willing to be assemblers.
As of a few years ago, Texas Instruments was spending a small fortune running
internal REMEDIAL reading, writing, and math classes for employees. These were
covering BASICS, things that the employees in question should have gotten in
GRADE school, never mind high school. WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY CHOICE IN THE MATTER.
WE *HAD* TO DO IT. DALLAS INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT WAS NOT DOING THE JOB,
AND WE NEEDED EMPLOYEES WHO COULD READ, WRITE, AND DO ARITHMETIC.
Grumpy au Contraire
Again, an excellent example illustrating the fact that public education
needs to be revamped from the ground up. People chuckle at "jaywalking"
but it's a lot closer to the truth than anyone wants to admit...
Marcus Taliaferro
"John R. Strohm" <str...@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:bs4m4i$d...@library2.airnews.net...
Then fire their stupid asses and tap the OVER 40 class of workers who CAN
perform those basic functions and a whole lot more. The over 40/50 group is
the most educated and most under employed, most over looked work force in
the USA. Don't me any crap that the Corporations want long term employees
either. Most Corps will lay you off in 3-5 years anyway thinking a younger
guy for less money is a better deal.
MT
Chris Bellomy
Republicans blame unemployment on the unemployed.
Some things never change, do they?
cb
Live and Let Live
"Marcus Taliaferro" <mlt...@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:3nmFb.395$_I3...@newssvr24.news.prodigy.com...
Right on ! And I'm living proof. I was laid off 5 times in 22 years.
Downsizing, site closures, dot-com bust, etc. I was last laid off from IBM
because they sent my job to India. They even had to gaul to ask me to train
two Indians as replacements. In the meantime, they brought in this college
intern for me to share an office with. She was a bozo. I couldn't believe
she was about to get a CS degree from A&M.
>
> MT
>
>
Grumpy au Contraire
What we have here folks is an excellent example of the product of public
education. You just cain't win can you?
Grumpy au Contraire
Good point. Other considerations include a superior work ethic. I
can't believe the excuses I hear regarding tardiness, absence and other
time off requests. And women are a lot worse than men with that regard...
SteveR
Grumpy au Contraire <Gru...@doofis.FAKEcom> wrote:
> Chris Bellomy wrote:
> >
> > Lesson from reading this thread:
> >
> > Republicans blame unemployment on the unemployed.
> >
> > Some things never change, do they?
> >
> > cb
>
>
>
> What we have here folks is an excellent example of the product of public
> education. You just cain't win can you?
He has a certain point, but it's overly broad. The conservative
philosophy of personal responsibility recognizes that many people are
unemployed because they are not very employable. CB has taken this to an
absurd degree to advance a political/philosophical bigotry which assumes
conservatives are just plain mean. But then again, the characterization
of conservatives is that they're basically stupid, yet wily and wealthy
captains of capitalism. The Reagan eighties boom was the "decade of
greed", while the Clinton-era boom was a "decade of prosperity". The
country was smart when Clinton was elected twice, and the same country
suddenly switched to stupid by backing bush. Musta been the arsenic GW
put in the water.
Chris Bellomy
:
: >
: > Lesson from reading this thread:
: >
: > Republicans blame unemployment on the unemployed.
: >
: > Some things never change, do they?
: What we have here folks is an excellent example of the product of public
: education. You just cain't win can you?
Austin College isn't a private school? Who knew?
cb
AC '87
Chris Bellomy
: In article <3FE642B4...@doofis.FAKEcom>,
When did the country ever back Bush?
cb
SteveR
Chris Bellomy <pu...@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote:
Is this a trick question?
I can only go by comparative poll numbers, and he's still above any
modern president in that respect. More democrats like Bush than
republicans liked Clinton, do the math.
Chris Bellomy
Say no more.
cb
Chris Bellomy
"The swelling of charity caseloads in Tarrant County didn't
start with 9/11. Most agency directors say it started in early
2001, with the recession that preceded the World Trade Center
terrorism. But those who've watched the economy and worked to
help those in its bottom ranks say the roots of the current
squeeze go back much further and deeper than 2001 -- and that
the real problems aren't likely to be solved by the current
brightening of economic forecasts.
"In Tarrant County, as in much of this country, they believe, the
American middle class is thinning out, becoming a frail version
of the workhorse that has carried the economy for so long.
Unemployment rates have begun heading downward in recent weeks,
but September's rate was the highest for that month in more than
15 years. Employment opportunities these days, for those who can
find them, are likely to be Jobs Lite: part-time, low-wage,
benefit-free.
"At the same time, thanks to decisions made in Washington and
Austin, the social safety net for those who've fallen is also
thinner and patchier than it's been in many years. Poverty is
easier to slide into and tougher to dig out of -- and the hole
is getting pretty crowded."
cb
Shadow_7
> hole is getting pretty crowded."
When unemployment crests 30%, we'll have a new government. Or no
government. All of which is very possible within the next five to ten
years.
Remembering some homeless guy who told me he was part of the militia. A
militia of homeless who's numbers were in the millions. And prominant
visions of the south will rise again. Realizing that just one million
outnumbers the current military numbers by at least two to one. Numbers
which are spread pretty thin right now as well.
Shadow_7
Not Me
So, Chris, how do you stop the export of jobs that can be done
anywhere in the world, given a network connection? This applies to
many accounting jobs, engineering jobs, clerical, phone center, etc,
as well.
Shadow_7
> can't believe the excuses I hear regarding tardiness, absence and other
> time off requests. And women are a lot worse than men with that
> regard...
There comes a point, when you've worked 80 hour weeks for several years
while being on three pager rotations for a microsoft based network. That
you can no longer roll out of bed, or otherwise suffer from health
problems due to stress and lack of sleep. It is this time that you become
a tardy and absent employee. And find yourself fired and denied
unemployment benefits. But it's somehow your fault for coming to the laws
of physics and biology.
Shadow_7
(been there done that)
Shadow_7
> anywhere in the world, given a network connection? This applies to
> many accounting jobs, engineering jobs, clerical, phone center, etc,
> as well.
Just like any other goods. Taxes and Tariffs. Fines and Penalties to
companies engaging in unethical and unfair business practices. But it'll
probably never happen, since it's these same entities that line the
politicians pockets.
Shadow_7
Randy Howard
@boxNOSPAMfrog.com says...
> Remembering some homeless guy who told me he was part of the militia. A
> militia of homeless who's numbers were in the millions. And prominant
> visions of the south will rise again. Realizing that just one million
> outnumbers the current military numbers by at least two to one. Numbers
> which are spread pretty thin right now as well.
(the very idea is laughable, but pretend that it is not for a moment)
Do you really think the only people that would resist a coup by the
homeless would be those in uniform?
r5
> He has a certain point, but it's overly broad. The conservative
> philosophy of personal responsibility recognizes that many people are
So where exactly is this utopian brand of conservatism and
personal responsibility being practiced? Currently we are in
an environment of corporate welfare, anti-free market policies
for many imports such as prescription drugs, insider deals for
govt contractors like Haliburton who are costing the taxpayers
billions per year in fraudulent overcharges, and three sets of
ineffective tax cuts passed since 2001.
Chris Bellomy
: On Sun, 21 Dec 2003 07:55:53 GMT, Chris Bellomy
: <pu...@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote:
:
: >In dfw.politics Screwball McGee <smc...@ohyeah.com> wrote:
: >:
: >: <inquisiti...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
: >: news:1d06a7b3.03122...@posting.google.com...
: >: > It's obviously impressive enough that many big companies are asking for
: >: it.
: >: >
: >:
: >: Sure they're asking for it. When the quality of a diploma has fallen, the
: >: only way to maintain the same level of productivity is to require higher
: >: education for the same job. They're inflating their educational demands just
: >: to keep their workforce at the same productivity level.
: >
: >Let's keep in mind that you're talking about the same workforce
: >that built the Internet that you're using right now.
: >
: >Indian engineers didn't put this together.
: >
: >The Japanese didn't either.
: >
: >Americans did it.
: >
: >And your answer to their growing joblessness is to call their
: >skills inadquate.
: So, Chris, how do you stop the export of jobs that can be done
: anywhere in the world, given a network connection? This applies to
: many accounting jobs, engineering jobs, clerical, phone center, etc,
: as well.
That's a fair question.
One thing I've thought of is tax (dis)incentives, making it more
expensive for businesses to export jobs overseas and less so to
keep them here.
Another answer is to flat-out ban the practice outright. I can
hear the free traders screaming already, but the burden is on
them to show why American corporations employing American workers
is bad for the American economy. Good luck.
I'm not familiar without we convinced the Japanese to build auto
plants over here, but that was an effective tactic. If it can
be adapted to fit this problem, it should be.
cb
Chris Bellomy
: Good point. Other considerations include a superior work ethic. I
: can't believe the excuses I hear regarding tardiness, absence and other
: time off requests.
Americans are the most productive workers in the world. Look it up.
Why do you kneejerk anti-American rhetoric? Oh, because you're a
Republican.
: And women are a lot worse than men with that regard...
Oh boy.
cb
Chris Bellomy
: I'm not familiar without we convinced the Japanese to build auto
Argh. "...with how we convinced..."
: plants over here, but that was an effective tactic. If it can
Screwball McGee
>
> The problem is that General Sprockets can't do that. There aren't enough
people
> with Bachelor's Degrees who are willing to be assemblers.
Have you noticed how many "Administrative Assistant" jobs there are in the
want ads? Thirty years ago they called them "Secretaries" That's how they
get around the problem you pointed out. It's the same job. It's the same
pay when you account for inflation. They're just playing the word game that
society insists upon.
>
> As of a few years ago, Texas Instruments was spending a small fortune
running
> internal REMEDIAL reading, writing, and math classes for employees. These
were
> covering BASICS, things that the employees in question should have gotten
in
> GRADE school, never mind high school. WE DIDN'T HAVE ANY CHOICE IN THE
MATTER.
> WE *HAD* TO DO IT. DALLAS INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT WAS NOT DOING THE
JOB,
> AND WE NEEDED EMPLOYEES WHO COULD READ, WRITE, AND DO ARITHMETIC.
>
And that's what happened in the Carpenter's Apprentice Class I mentioned
earlier. They took those who couldn't pass the test and gave them two weeks
of remedial math in the apprentice program to bring them up to where they
needed to be. Of course, those two weeks of remedial math meant there were
two weeks LESS of roofing, stairs, and doors. They sent those apprentices
out with less carpentry instruction because they had to devote time to
business that should have been taken care of earlier.
And this happens everywhere. In every field.
Screwball McGee
"Chris Bellomy" <pu...@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote in message
I'm not a Republican.
Your theory needs adjustment in that regard.
Secondly, I'm not addressing the unemployed.
I'm addressing the under-educated.
Your understanding of the conversation needs to be sharpened in that regard.
Screwball McGee
"Chris Bellomy" <pu...@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote in message
> In dfw.politics Screwball McGee <smc...@ohyeah.com> wrote:
> :
> : <inquisiti...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> : news:1d06a7b3.03122...@posting.google.com...
> : > It's obviously impressive enough that many big companies are asking
for
> : it.
> : >
> :
> : Sure they're asking for it. When the quality of a diploma has fallen,
the
> : only way to maintain the same level of productivity is to require higher
> : education for the same job. They're inflating their educational demands
just
> : to keep their workforce at the same productivity level.
>
> Let's keep in mind that you're talking about the same workforce
> that built the Internet that you're using right now.
>
> Indian engineers didn't put this together.
>
> The Japanese didn't either.
>
> Americans did it.
>
> And your answer to their growing joblessness is to call their
> skills inadquate.
>
I've encountered End User Support Specialists, with Bachelor Degrees in
Computer Science, who could only parrot what they had memorized. Their
conceptual understanding was very poor.
The internet I'm using right now wasn't put together by the MBA who can't
name the 4 oceans. And it wasn't put together by the Bachelor of Computer
Science who can't write a requisition for office supplies without spelling
errors.
The creative, problem-solving brainpower which directs the construction of a
new technology isn't distributed among all the people who work on it. That
brainpower only has to reside in a director who oversees the project.
That director is not likely to be a party-hound who selected a college major
because it was hot on the job-market.
The internet I'm using was built by people like that director.
Not by the people whose growing joblessness is on your mind.
leslie
: http://www.fwweekly.com/issues/2003-12-17/feature.html/page1.html
:
: "In Tarrant County, as in much of this country, they believe, the
: American middle class is thinning out, becoming a frail version
: of the workhorse that has carried the economy for so long.
Here's one big reason for the decimation of the middle class:
http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/dec2003/nf20031215_8942_db046.htm
BW Online | December 15, 2003 | Corporate America's Silent Partner: India
Businesses are off-shoring more and more white-collar jobs there,
though you won't hear them talk about it much in an election year
The shift of skilled work to India is becoming one of Corporate
America's worst-kept secrets. Almost daily, India's newspapers carry
items on new plans by U.S. software, finance, or pharmaceutical
companies to open or expand call centers and research labs. Officials
from Bombay to Bangalore point to splashy new office parks that are
soon to house major facilities by companies like Morgan Stanley (MWD),
General Motors (GM ), or Dell (DELL ). Tour a busy call center run
by an Indian outsourcing specialist at midnight, and you'll likely see
hundreds of staffers fielding calls for clients like American Express
(AXP ), MetLife (MET ), J.P. Morgan Chase, or Citigroup (C )..."
This effort is supported by the Congressional Congress on India:
http://www.indiapac.us/
IndiaPAC
"Welcome to America's Pro-India Lobby..."
Here are the Texas members of the Congressional Congress on India:
Chris Bell (D-TX)
Michael Burgess (R-TX)
Kevin Brady (R-TX)
Lloyd Doggett (D-TX)
Martin Frost (D-TX)
Gene Green (D-TX)
Jed Hensarling (R-TX)
Sheila Jackson-Lee (D-TX)
Eddie Johnson (D-TX)
Nick Lampson (D-TX)
Pete Sessions (R-TX)
According to:
http://www.indiapac.us/caucus.html
IndiaPAC
Remember them when they run for reelection.
--Jerry Leslie
Note: les...@jrlvax.houston.rr.com is invalid for email
Shadow_7
> of a new technology isn't distributed among all the people who work on
> it. That brainpower only has to reside in a director who oversees the
> project.
I've never known a director to create anything. They oversea a project,
and approve things like overtime. But the creative process is normally
figured out by the people actually doing the work. Many times, whatever
specs are given them are minimal, or not even close to what they need be.
They could a) return to sender requesting corrections, b) build according
to the specs which are wrong, or c) build something that will do the job
and ask them to tell you it doesn't.
I've only known one director who actually did anything. But only to
save his own hide. He had to rewrite 50% of a system that was written
mostly by immigrated indians. Had he not done so, the project would have
been a failure.
Most other directors I know tell you to debug this program. But send you
only the name of the logon running the program. And that logon being a
generic one used by operations on all servers in the computer room. Or
otherwise tell the application developer to maintain a server that their
swipe card doesn't even give them access to. And blames said applications
developer because the admin couldn't keep the drives on the servers from
getting full. Or even keep the network up longer than four hours for that
matter.
Shadow_7
Chris Bellomy
I get the impression that you think the unemployment of the most
productive workforce in the world, who built the foremost technological
achievement of our generation, is their fault.
cb
SteveR
Chris Bellomy <pu...@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote:
What method would you use to guage the popularity of a president or a
policy?
SteveR
<r5ahhj-6EBED3....@newssvr24-ext.news.prodigy.com>,
r5 <r5a...@r5ahhj.bounceme.net> wrote:
Other than the tax cuts that you deem ineffective, which of your list of
complaints are exclusive to the present administration?
Which element of "coprorate welfare" do you find offensive? Is there any
instance when tax breaks and other incentives work for the betterment of
the community?
Is there any aspect of global scale goods or services that should be
regulated?
Are the contracts won by Haliburton truly proved as "insider deals", and
if so, did Haliburton's contracts under previous administrations also
come about because of this mechanism?
Did the world suddenly turn bad when the administration changed, or did
the American experiment turn sour starting in 1777?
tracey
Chris Bellomy wrote:
Its built on a lot of Cheese Burgers, CB.
Shadow_7
> policy?
How about public appearances?
Recalling that Bush spent most of the inaugral parade INSIDE his caravan.
Even traveling faster than the foot soldiers could run outside of the
vehicle during certain parts of said parade. Strange how we're not seeing
those clips since they were broadcast live. Or even 9/11 footage for that
matter.
Al Gore at least visited my college, and even spoke to my class in the
classroom. And I even got to perform for Clinton when he was in office.
But I haven't seen hide nor tail of Bush. Aside from a few short tv clips.
Does Bush even care about us common folk? Apparently not. Guess who I
wont be voting for come this election. Oddly enough it's one of the few
times I've lived in an area long enough to register for and be eligible to
vote too.
Shadow_7
Chris Bellomy
Popular vote.
cb
God Bless Texas
> > What method would you use to guage the popularity of a president or a
> > policy?
>
> Al Gore at least visited my college, and even spoke to my class in the
> classroom. And I even got to perform for Clinton when he was in office.
> But I haven't seen hide nor tail of Bush. Aside from a few short tv clips.
Apparently a rather subjective one. . .
God Bless Texas
> Popular vote.
Have someone explain the electoral college to you sometime, old son.
Then have them tell you the difference between a representative republic and
a democracy, and why our founders chose the former over the latter.
Of course, since you already know all of this, why don't you explain to us
why you would want to change it?
Chris Bellomy
: "Chris Bellomy" <pu...@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote
:
: > Popular vote.
:
: Have someone explain the electoral college to you sometime, old son.
That's not how we measure popular support, is it?
: Then have them tell you the difference between a representative republic and
: a democracy, and why our founders chose the former over the latter.
You're full of non-sequiturs and strawmen in this post.
: Of course, since you already know all of this, why don't you explain to us
: why you would want to change it?
Change what?
cb
God Bless Texas
> In dfw.politics God Bless Texas <no.how...@no.where.com> wrote:
> : "Chris Bellomy" <pu...@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid> wrote
> :
> : > Popular vote.
> :
> : Have someone explain the electoral college to you sometime, old son.
>
> That's not how we measure popular support, is it?
You would have an election every time someone wanted to gauge the support a
sitting president has? That would be a "vote of confidence?"
> : Then have them tell you the difference between a representative republic
and
> : a democracy, and why our founders chose the former over the latter.
>
> You're full of non-sequiturs and strawmen in this post.
Yeah, it's what happens when I try to think while I'm at work. :-\
> : Of course, since you already know all of this, why don't you explain to
us
> : why you would want to change it?
>
> Change what?
Never mind, you're right, that didn't go anywhere at all. I'll dial back
later when some of the lines aren't busy. . .
jim andrews
pu...@tbbqfubj.arg.invalid says...
> In dfw.politics Grumpy au Contraire <Gru...@doofis.fakecom> wrote:
> :
> :
> : Chris Bellomy wrote:
> : >
> : > Lesson from reading this thread:
> : >
> : > Republicans blame unemployment on the unemployed.
> : >
> : > Some things never change, do they?
> :
> : education. You just cain't win can you?
>
Ewe no ewe our an Aggee.
jim andrews