Intersection Etiquette
The Polemicist
bonkers...this happens to me at least a couple times a week driving
throughout Austin. Here's a personal note to YOU, and YOU know who you
are:
<RANT>
YOU are in your car and the first person in the left turn lane about to
make a left turn. It is NOT an arrow-protected left turn. The light
turns green. YOU stay at the white line, until the very last car has
pass you from the opposite direction and THEN you slowly meander
through the left on a yellow light, preventing any of the cars behind
you in the left turn lane from turning left.
YOU are an idiot, and a potential cause of road rage! Proper
intersection etiquette as the first person in line is to PULL THE F***
UP TO THE MIDDLE OF THE INTERSECTION, and TURN LEFT AT THE FIRST
OPPORTUNITY, allowing others behind you to do the same. If we all do
this then lots more cars get to turn left instead of JUST YOU.
BTW, this is especially aggravating downtown where there are fewer left
turn lanes...PULL OUT INTO THE INTERSECTION to make your left, for
goddsakes!
</RANT>
Thank you.
The Polemicist
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Import Car Fan
The Polemicist <polem...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8kseue$u9u$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> YOU are in your car and the first person in the left turn lane about to
> make a left turn. It is NOT an arrow-protected left turn. The light
> turns green. YOU stay at the white line, until the very last car has
> pass you from the opposite direction and THEN you slowly meander
> through the left on a yellow light, preventing any of the cars behind
> you in the left turn lane from turning left.
Ordinarily I would agree with you, but this is Austin, where red light
runners are very common. If you pull up into the intersection then
there's a chance that you'll have to turn left well after the light turns
red, in order to make sure that you don't hit a red light runner.
Dusty Rhodes
news:UOlc5.374$o71....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
<WHOOSH> Hope you ducked.
Cheers,
Dusty
The Polemicist
"Import Car Fan" <dsh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> The Polemicist <polem...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:8kseue$u9u$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> > YOU are in your car and the first person in the left turn lane
about to
> > make a left turn. It is NOT an arrow-protected left turn. The light
> > turns green. YOU stay at the white line, until the very last car has
> > pass you from the opposite direction and THEN you slowly meander
> > through the left on a yellow light, preventing any of the cars
behind
> > you in the left turn lane from turning left.
>
> Ordinarily I would agree with you, but this is Austin, where red light
> runners are very common. If you pull up into the intersection then
> there's a chance that you'll have to turn left well after the light
turns
> red, in order to make sure that you don't hit a red light runner.
>
>
Red light runners exist in every town in the country...I found them to
be far worse in other cities where I've lived, Phoenix and Chicago just
to name two. But only in Austin do I find this odd, and exasperating
tendency of drivers refusing to pull out into the middle of the
intersection to make the left turn. Even if, as you describe, a car is
caught after the red in the intersection...the car and any other cars
in the intersection can complete the left turn before the cross traffic
light has completely changed to green.
Dusty Rhodes
> Red light runners exist in every town in the country...I found them to
> be far worse in other cities where I've lived, Phoenix and Chicago just
> to name two. But only in Austin do I find this odd, and exasperating
> tendency of drivers refusing to pull out into the middle of the
> intersection to make the left turn. Even if, as you describe, a car is
> caught after the red in the intersection...the car and any other cars
> in the intersection can complete the left turn before the cross traffic
> light has completely changed to green.
This particular piece of Austin driving stupidity never ceases to amaze me.
It's really very simple. When making a left turn at a light:
1. Enter intersection
2. Wait for traffic to clear
3. Complete turn
Many Austin drivers completely miss step 1. I've even had people argue with
me over this, though the procedure is quite clearly spelled out in the rules
of the road. Oh well. At least they're catching on to left on red from a 1
way to a 1 way.
Cheers,
Dusty
Corey Huinker
> way to a 1 way.
Not quickly enough.
Import Car Fan
> "Import Car Fan" <dsh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Ordinarily I would agree with you, but this is Austin, where red light
> > runners are very common. If you pull up into the intersection then
> > there's a chance that you'll have to turn left well after the light
> turns
> > red, in order to make sure that you don't hit a red light runner.
> >
>
> caught after the red in the intersection...the car and any other cars
> in the intersection can complete the left turn before the cross traffic
> light has completely changed to green.
Only problem with that is you can't reliably judge when the
oncoming traffic is going to stop until well after the light
turns red and the cross traffic light has turned green.
Many times I've seen downtown drivers accelerate at the
last moment to run a red light and nearly hit the cross
traffic. Then you also have to deal with pedestrians
who lazily cross the intersection and block your path.
And most times you'll get the left green arrow at the
next cycle so you're not blocking the flow of traffic
by not pulling into the intersection. Usually there's no
room in the intersection for more than one car. The cars
stopped behind the intersection shouldn't be entering it
when the light turns yellow.
Hugh Bob (was STA)
<dsh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
My favorite is the right turn onto a 2 or 3 lane one way road all
lanes going in the right direction.
So the immediate one or two lanes are free of any traffic and the guy
posed to move chooses to wait until driver has a clear shot (all lanes
are open) at the outer most lane.
This is crazed lunacy. These people need to understand simple driving
and a fair bit of aggressive driving. Austin is no longer a nice
peaceful drive where one can pick and choose the best choice. The
obvious thing to do is to get into a free lane, accelerate and adjust
to move into a free position in the outer most lane.
Dusty Rhodes
news:k_pc5.715$o71....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> Only problem with that is you can't reliably judge when the
> oncoming traffic is going to stop until well after the light
> turns red and the cross traffic light has turned green.
Say it with me:
1. Enter intersection
2. Wait for traffic to clear
3. Complete turn
Got it?
Cheers,
Dusty
Hugh Bob (was STA)
<dsh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Hugh Bob (was STA) <mar...@swb.net> wrote in message
>news:77b4ns005gnkbgtpp...@4ax.com...
>>
>> So the immediate one or two lanes are free of any traffic and the guy
>> posed to move chooses to wait until driver has a clear shot (all lanes
>> are open) at the outer most lane.
>>
>> This is crazed lunacy. These people need to understand simple driving
>> and a fair bit of aggressive driving. Austin is no longer a nice
>> peaceful drive where one can pick and choose the best choice.
>
>Wouldn't it be a lot easier on your heart if you simply waited
>without complaint during the 15 extra seconds it takes for the
>driver ahead to turn? You're not headed to the emergency
>room during every driving trip, are you?
>
Wouldn't it also be just as easy and better for those of us who use
the road to simply Kill the person? :)
Instead of heart condition or murder charges, I keep my six string in
the car for just such occasions. That doesn't mean I shouldn't notice
it.
Driving with no consideration for other drivers also means that when I
have to be someplace - like when i did work, that I'd have to tack on
so many minutes not for reasonable traffic concerns, but some drivers
require "perfection" on the road before they get onto one.
Inconsiderate. some drivers really flake on the road - I can
understand this and I'm not upset with them. It just appears to be
quite a few people who simply have the time and don't care that there
are 10-15 cars behind them. If they find driving all that difficult,
pull over to the side and let those of us who can drive - drive. After
ward they can find the ideal road and whether conditions.
>> The obvious thing to do is to get into a free lane, accelerate and adjust
>> to move into a free position in the outer most lane.
>
>Maybe the driver ahead has to turn left almost as soon as he turns
>right.
>
>
Maybe. The specific intersection I'm speaking of - that is usually the
case. However, "almost" in this case is quite a ways down the road. I
drive a car with slow acceleration "rabbit - 84 - diesel" and have no
problem getting into said lane - which is the lane I want and need to
get into as well. Think about it. If everyone waited until the perfect
road conditions occurred, we'd have traffic like....Austin.
Dusty Rhodes
news:UZsc5.1135$o71....@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> Hugh Bob (was STA) <mar...@swb.net> wrote in message
> news:77b4ns005gnkbgtpp...@4ax.com...
> >
> > So the immediate one or two lanes are free of any traffic and the guy
> > posed to move chooses to wait until driver has a clear shot (all lanes
> > are open) at the outer most lane.
> >
> > This is crazed lunacy. These people need to understand simple driving
> > and a fair bit of aggressive driving. Austin is no longer a nice
> > peaceful drive where one can pick and choose the best choice.
>
> Wouldn't it be a lot easier on your heart if you simply waited
> without complaint during the 15 extra seconds it takes for the
> driver ahead to turn? You're not headed to the emergency
> room during every driving trip, are you?
>
adjust
> > to move into a free position in the outer most lane.
>
> Maybe the driver ahead has to turn left almost as soon as he turns
> right.
Maybe the driver ahead has dropped dead. Maybe you're part of the problem,
not the solution.
Cheers,
Dusty
Import Car Fan
The Polemicist
"Import Car Fan" <dsh...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> Only problem with that is you can't reliably judge when the
> oncoming traffic is going to stop until well after the light
> turns red and the cross traffic light has turned green.
> last moment to run a red light and nearly hit the cross
> traffic.
But, if you are watching for oncoming traffic while in the intersection
waiting to make your left turn, surely you would see if an oncoming
driver was speeding up to try to beat the yellow? I do, often. If that
happens, I wait for the S.O.B. to clear the intersection, then I turn.
>Then you also have to deal with pedestrians
> who lazily cross the intersection and block your path.
Pedestrians ALWAYS have the right of way, no matter what. If there are
pedestrians, I wait, then I make my turn.
>
> And most times you'll get the left green arrow at the
> next cycle so you're not blocking the flow of traffic
> by not pulling into the intersection. Usually there's no
> room in the intersection for more than one car. The cars
> stopped behind the intersection shouldn't be entering it
> when the light turns yellow.
There is almost always room for not one, not two, but THREE cars in the
intersection unless they all happen to be Ford Expeditions. There is
no legitimate reason to force these cars to wait for another light
change because of a rude and ignorant driver who doesn't have the
brains to enter the intersection to make a turn. Again, PEOPLE,
PLEASE....pull into the intersection, check for oncoming traffic, and
make your left turn at the first opportunity!
Thank YOU (and YOU know who YOU are!!!)
H Gilmer
> There is almost always room for not one, not two, but THREE cars in the
> intersection unless they all happen to be Ford Expeditions. There is
> no legitimate reason to force these cars to wait for another light
> change because of a rude and ignorant driver who doesn't have the
> brains to enter the intersection to make a turn.
Nope, nope, nope. This is not a matter of etiquette but of law.
*One* car may enter the intersection. No more. Says so in the
driving handbook, and people have been ticketed for being the second
car in the intersection.
Hg
The Polemicist
H Gilmer <gil...@io.com> wrote:
> and people have been ticketed for being the second
> car in the intersection.
Can you name one?
In all seriousness, *IF* there was at least one car pulled up to the
middle of the intersection to make the left, that would be great!
Problem is, first driver in line SITS AT THE WHITE LINE until the last
possible moment, then crawls through the intersection as the yellow
turns red, preventing anyone else behind him from turning left.
Will Fiveash
>In all seriousness, *IF* there was at least one car pulled up to the
>middle of the intersection to make the left, that would be great!
>Problem is, first driver in line SITS AT THE WHITE LINE until the last
>possible moment, then crawls through the intersection as the yellow
>turns red, preventing anyone else behind him from turning left.
I agree that some people seem to drive too slow or don't pay attention
to light changes when turning through an intersection but I disagree
with your view that people should drive to the middle of the
intersection and wait there. This is an excellent way to get hit when
someone runs a red light and an excellent way to cause deadlock if you
can't make the turn before the light changes.
--
Will
wtm
even the public transportation commisions poll from 1989 said that Austin
Texas runns more red lights than any other city in the USA and not just a
few percent more but like 35% more likely to than any of the others
This could be caused because we are the heart of traffic light as well as
many other traffic route testing in Texas and research for most of America,
so play along with the game because most of our lights(at least at dangerous
intersections) have been set to start the cycle 1-3 seconds after the other
one goes red(plenty of time to get up on two wheels for your turn)
> > Ordinarily I would agree with you, but this is Austin, where red light
> > runners are very common. If you pull up into the intersection then
> > there's a chance that you'll have to turn left well after the light
turns
> > red, in order to make sure that you don't hit a red light runner.
>
Lyn Pierce
Will Fiveash <wi...@austin.ibm.com> wrote:
>
>I agree that some people seem to drive too slow or don't pay attention
>to light changes when turning through an intersection but I disagree
>with your view that people should drive to the middle of the
>intersection and wait there. This is an excellent way to get hit when
>someone runs a red light and an excellent way to cause deadlock if you
>can't make the turn before the light changes.
You can avoid the red-light runners by waiting until cross traffic
has stopped before pulling out into the intersection. If the light
changes before you can make the turn, the correct procedure is to
make it anyway. This is a perfectly legal exception to the red-light
law.
Cheers,
-- Lyn
--
==============================================================================
Lyn Pierce Empathy is the key to persuasion. Know your
tum...@cs.utexas.edu adversary's mind before you try to change it.
www.cs.utexas.edu/users/tumlin
Dusty Rhodes
news:8kvebf$1558$1...@ausnews.austin.ibm.com...
> The Polemicist <polem...@my-deja.com> writes:
> >In all seriousness, *IF* there was at least one car pulled up to the
> >middle of the intersection to make the left, that would be great!
> >Problem is, first driver in line SITS AT THE WHITE LINE until the last
> >possible moment, then crawls through the intersection as the yellow
> >turns red, preventing anyone else behind him from turning left.
>
> to light changes when turning through an intersection but I disagree
> with your view that people should drive to the middle of the
> intersection and wait there. This is an excellent way to get hit when
> someone runs a red light and an excellent way to cause deadlock if you
> can't make the turn before the light changes.
It's not a POV. It's not a matter of opinion. It's the law.
Much like merging onto a freeway, if you are unable to follow the law when
turning at an intersection, you shouldn't be doing it. Make 3 rights,
instead or, better yet, just stay off the road.
Besides, how is someone running a red light - seeing as how they would be
coming towards you, not from either side, any more of a danger if you're in
the intersection? You're not suggesting the danger is people running a light
at which they are already stopped, are you?
One more time:
1. Enter intersection
2. Wait for traffic to clear
3. Complete turn
You're apparently forgetting about 2. As to deadlock, that's just plain
silly. Sitting there with your thumb up your hiney causes deadlock.
Cheers,
Dusty
Travis Wheatley
The Polemicist wrote in message <8kseue$u9u$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
> Allow me to delurk long enough to rant on something that drives me
>bonkers...this happens to me at least a couple times a week driving
>throughout Austin. Here's a personal note to YOU, and YOU know who you
>are:
>
><RANT>
>make a left turn. It is NOT an arrow-protected left turn. The light
>turns green. YOU stay at the white line, until the very last car has
>pass you from the opposite direction and THEN you slowly meander
>through the left on a yellow light, preventing any of the cars behind
>you in the left turn lane from turning left.
>
>intersection etiquette as the first person in line is to PULL THE F***
>UP TO THE MIDDLE OF THE INTERSECTION, and TURN LEFT AT THE FIRST
>OPPORTUNITY, allowing others behind you to do the same. If we all do
>this then lots more cars get to turn left instead of JUST YOU.
>
>BTW, this is especially aggravating downtown where there are fewer left
>turn lanes...PULL OUT INTO THE INTERSECTION to make your left, for
>goddsakes!
></RANT>
>
<COUNTER_RANT>
When you are the first at the intersection then you get to decide when it is
safe/appropriate to enter the intersection. Until then SHUT THE F***
UP!!!!!!!!!!
</COUNTER_RANT>
Dusty Rhodes
news:eJHc5.34789$09.3...@typhoon.austin.rr.com...
> This Person Speaketh the truth Its been that way since the late 70's and
> even the public transportation commisions poll from 1989 said that Austin
> Texas runns more red lights than any other city in the USA and not just a
> few percent more but like 35% more likely to than any of the others
So, uh, how does that person COMING AT YOU represent any more danger if
you're in the intersection than not? If they're in your lane, you're
screwed, in the intersection or not. 10 feet forward or back won't make a
difference unless your low rider has shocks powerful enough for your car to
leap sideways. If so, you'll have a few extra nanoseconds to react.
Don't forget step 2. Wait for traffic to clear.
Cheers,
Dusty
Dusty Rhodes
message news:8kviij$495$1...@amdint2.amd.com...
> When you are the first at the intersection then you get to decide when it
is
> safe/appropriate to enter the intersection. Until then SHUT THE F***
> UP!!!!!!!!!!
Lemme guess, Austin native? At least native Texan? The rest of the world
does not seem to share this particularly annoying peccadillo.
I've had natives argue it with me, even after being shown the rules of the
road. Is it something in the water or were all the driver's ed programs
around here just lousy?
Of course, you're also right. One should never enter the intersection until
it is clear, which would be after the green when and after cross traffic has
cleared, but still before making the turn.
Cheers,
Dusty
Travis Wheatley
Dusty Rhodes wrote in message ...
>"Travis Wheatley" <travis....@deathtoallspammers.amd.com> wrote in
>message news:8kviij$495$1...@amdint2.amd.com...
>
>> When you are the first at the intersection then you get to decide when it
>is
>> safe/appropriate to enter the intersection. Until then SHUT THE F***
>> UP!!!!!!!!!!
>
>Lemme guess, Austin native? At least native Texan? The rest of the world
>does not seem to share this particularly annoying peccadillo.
>
Yep. Native Texan living in the Austin area since 1980.
>I've had natives argue it with me, even after being shown the rules of the
>road. Is it something in the water or were all the driver's ed programs
>around here just lousy?
>
Nope, native drivers are fine. It's all those damned crack headed, road
raging yankees causing the traffic problems.... ;)
>Of course, you're also right. One should never enter the intersection until
>it is clear, which would be after the green when and after cross traffic
has
>cleared, but still before making the turn.
>
Seriously though, I totally concur with your 3 step procedure. What I take
issue with is the original poster's apparent belief that when located in a
position other than the head car in an intersection s/he is in a better
position to know when it is appropriate to enter the intersection than the
driver of the lead vehicle.
When and only when it is your turn at the intersection do you have the right
to decide when it is appropriate to enter the intersection. Until that time
you would be well served to sit back, relax, and wait your turn.
It seems to me that what the original poster is *really* upset about is
loosing the opportunity to tailgate behind someone who has already entered
the intersection so s/he can use them as interference to run the light.
Dave Anderson
> Maybe the driver ahead has to turn left almost as soon as he turns
> right.
So what? He doesn't have the right to turn immediately into the left hand
lane:
Texas Transportation Code
CHAPTER 545. OPERATION AND MOVEMENT OF VEHICLES
Sec. 545.101. Turning at Intersection.
(a) To make a right turn at an intersection, an operator shall make
both the approach and the turn as closely as practicable to the
right-hand curb or edge of the roadway.
--
Dave Anderson
Unsolicited commercial email will be read at a cost of $500 per message. Use
of this email address implies consent to these terms.
Mike Dahmus
<travis....@deathtoallspammers.amd.com> hired an infinite number of
monkeys to write:
>When and only when it is your turn at the intersection do you have the right
>to decide when it is appropriate to enter the intersection. Until that time
>you would be well served to sit back, relax, and wait your turn.
There are some intersections in town where there is _never_ a green arrow.
Should you wait forever(*) in the hopes that the nice calm texan in front of
you will figure out they need to go out halfway?
(* - Well, even at the worst intersections this realistically would only be a
few _hours_)
---
Mike Dahmus mdahmus at I O DOT COM
http://www.dahmus.org/mike/
"No one likes a pedantic smartarse..."
Dave Anderson
> Nope, nope, nope. This is not a matter of etiquette but of law.
> *One* car may enter the intersection. No more. Says so in the
> driving handbook, and people have been ticketed for being the second
> car in the intersection.
You can't get a ticket for violating the rules of the driving handbook. The
LAW, on the other hand, does not support your assertion. Feel free to back
up your claims.
===========================================================================
Sec. 545.151. Vehicle Approaching or Entering Intersection.
(a) An operator approaching an intersection:
(1) shall stop, yield, and grant immediate use of the intersection
in obedience to an official traffic-control device, including a
stop sign or yield right-of-way sign; and
(2) after stopping, may proceed when the intersection can be safely
entered without interference or collision with traffic using a
different street or roadway.
(b) An operator on a single-lane or two-lane street or roadway who
approaches an intersection that is not controlled by an official
traffic-control device and that is located on a divided highway or
on a street or roadway divided into three or more marked traffic
lanes:
(1) shall stop, yield, and grant immediate use of the intersection
to a vehicle on the other street or roadway that is within the
intersection or approaching the intersection in such proximity
as to be a hazard; and
(2) after stopping, may proceed when the intersection can be safely
entered without interference or collision with traffic using a
different street or roadway.
(c) An operator on an unpaved street or roadway approaching an
intersection of a paved street or roadway:
(1) shall stop, yield, and grant immediate use of the intersection
to a vehicle on the paved street or roadway that is within the
intersection or approaching the intersection in such proximity
as to be a hazard; and
(2) after stopping, may proceed when the intersection can be safely
entered without interference or collision with traffic using the
paved street or roadway.
(d) Except as provided in Subsection (e), an operator approaching an
intersection of a street or roadway that is not controlled by an
official traffic-control device:
(1) shall stop, yield, and grant immediate use of the intersection
to a vehicle that has entered the intersection from the
operator's right or is approaching the intersection from the
operator's right in a proximity that is a hazard; and
(2) after stopping, may proceed when the intersection can be safely
entered without interference or collision with traffic using a
different street or roadway.
(e) An operator approaching an intersection of a street or roadway from
a street or roadway that terminates at the intersection and that is
not controlled by an official traffic-control device or controlled
as provided by Subsection (b) or (c):
(1) shall stop, yield, and grant immediate use of the intersection
to another vehicle that has entered the intersection from the
other street or roadway or is approaching the intersection on
the other street or roadway in a proximity that is a hazard; and
(2) after stopping, may proceed when the intersection can be safely
entered without interference or collision with the traffic using
the other street or roadway.
(f) An operator who is required by this section to stop and yield the
right-of-way at an intersection to another vehicle and who is
involved in a collision or interferes with other traffic at the
intersection to whom right-of-way is to be given is presumed not to
have yielded the right-of-way.
===========================================================================
Fernando
> I agree that some people seem to drive too slow or don't pay attention
> to light changes when turning through an intersection but I disagree
> with your view that people should drive to the middle of the
> intersection and wait there. This is an excellent way to get hit when
> someone runs a red light and an excellent way to cause deadlock if you
> can't make the turn before the light changes.
By your logic then nobody should turn left! When you pull out to
the center of the intersection the light is green for going straight.
Red light runners generally run the light when it has just changed from
green to red meaning a red light runner (RLR) would be in the oncoming
traffic not the cross traffic. So even if you are waiting back behind
the line until the light turns yellow you are running the risk of
getting hit by a RLR.
Yes there would be a temporary deadlock on the cross traffic street
while the left turning driver (LTD) was going through the intersection.
In fact that's the whole point. If the LTD pulls out then it is
guarenteed that at least one car will make the turn because the cross
traffic cannot go until he clears the intersection. If he insists on
staying back out of the intersection it could be quite a while before
anybody makes a turn especially if there isn't an arrow. And then of
course you have the problem of all the drivers who want to turn left
getting backed up into the other trafic lanes. Also if the person
turning left would push down on the gas pedal a little harder they
would get through the intersection in minimum time.
Now drivers who are going straight and who enter the intersection
when the road ahead is blocked with traffic should be taken out and
shot of course but that is a different subject.
H Gilmer
> H Gilmer wrote:
>> Nope, nope, nope. This is not a matter of etiquette but of law.
>> *One* car may enter the intersection. No more. Says so in the
>> driving handbook, and people have been ticketed for being the second
>> car in the intersection.
> You can't get a ticket for violating the rules of the driving handbook. The
> LAW, on the other hand, does not support your assertion. Feel free to back
> up your claims.
Have cops ever been known to give tickets based on their own
misinterpretation of the law?
Meanwhile, I'm trying to remember who the hell it was told me they got
the ticket. Not getting anywhere yet.
Hg
Dave Anderson
>> Feel free to back up your claims.
>
> Have cops ever been known to give tickets based on their own
> misinterpretation of the law?
Yes - and that's why we have the right to contest charges in court.
> Meanwhile, I'm trying to remember who the hell it was told me they got
> the ticket. Not getting anywhere yet.
I'm sorry - I should have encouraged you to back up your claim with
something stronger than anecdotal offerings. My bad. Please don't compund
the error by trying to convince us that it must be true because it happened
to a friend of your uncle's boss.
Will Fiveash
>> I agree that some people seem to drive too slow or don't pay attention
>> to light changes when turning through an intersection but I disagree
>> with your view that people should drive to the middle of the
>> intersection and wait there. This is an excellent way to get hit when
>> someone runs a red light and an excellent way to cause deadlock if you
>> can't make the turn before the light changes.
>
Please give me a reference. What I recall from driver's education is
that one should not pull into the middle of the intersection unless one
can fully complete the turn without stopping. I doubt there is a law
that requires one to pull into the middle of the intersection to make a
left.
>Much like merging onto a freeway, if you are unable to follow the law when
>turning at an intersection, you shouldn't be doing it. Make 3 rights,
>instead or, better yet, just stay off the road.
>
>Besides, how is someone running a red light - seeing as how they would be
>coming towards you, not from either side, any more of a danger if you're in
>the intersection? You're not suggesting the danger is people running a light
>at which they are already stopped, are you?
Why can't they run the light on the road that you are making a left turn
onto and hit you from the side? I'm not denying that one could be hit
from behind but when you enter the middle of the intersection you could
also be hit from the sides. And as a motorcyclist, my motto is "if a
driver can do something stupid, they will do something stupid".
Last post for me since this isn't really about Austin in general.
--
Will
The Polemicist
"Travis Wheatley" <travis....@deathtoallspammers.amd.com> wrote:
> >BTW, this is especially aggravating downtown where there are fewer
left
> >turn lanes...PULL OUT INTO THE INTERSECTION to make your left, for
> >goddsakes!
> ></RANT>
> >
>
> <COUNTER_RANT>
>
> When you are the first at the intersection then you get to decide
when it is
> safe/appropriate to enter the intersection. Until then SHUT THE F***
> UP!!!!!!!!!!
>
> </COUNTER_RANT>
Travis, *IF* there are no cars endangering you, and *IF* the light is
green, the WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU NOT PULL UP to make your left turn?
I don't advocate anyone doing anything unsafe. And I can see where, for
example, if there was a siren blaring nearby that sounded as if it were
heading towards you, you might want to sit tight...all well and good.
But to just sit there, at the white line, when it is perfectly safe to
pull up, letting opportunity after opportunity to turn go by while
others are stuck behind you is JUST PLAIN RUDE. But I'll bet that
don't bother ya none....you are probasbly the same guy that writes a
check for 300 items in the cash only/10 items or less lane at HEB.
The Polemicist
"Travis Wheatley" <travis....@deathtoallspammers.amd.com> wrote:
>
> Seriously though, I totally concur with your 3 step procedure. What I
take
> issue with is the original poster's apparent belief that when located
in a
> position other than the head car in an intersection s/he is in a
better
> position to know when it is appropriate to enter the intersection
than the
> driver of the lead vehicle.
If I am DIRECTLY behind the lead car, I can see exactly what he
sees....a clear, safe, open intersection to pull up to while waiting to
make a left turn. One doesn't have to be the lead car to see that.
>
> When and only when it is your turn at the intersection do you have
the right
> to decide when it is appropriate to enter the intersection. Until
that time
> you would be well served to sit back, relax, and wait your turn.
Which, in Austin, thanks to the rudeness of drivers who refuse to pull
up to the middle of the intersection, could be hours (not to mention
the wasted gas).
>
> It seems to me that what the original poster is *really* upset about
is
> loosing the opportunity to tailgate behind someone who has already
entered
> the intersection so s/he can use them as interference to run the
light.
Thats exactly the point, Travis...if you pull out into the
intersection, I can pull up behind you, and WE BOTH GET TO MAKE THE
LEFT!!! Thats not called tailgating...that is called two drivers doing
their part to try to keep the gawdawful slow Austin traffic MOVING.
And if you are actually paying attention and make your turn at the
first opportunity, the guy behind ME might be able to make the left
too! But when you sit at the white line wasting opportunities to turn,
YOU and ONLY YOU get to make the left! Why do you feel that only you
should get to make the left, Travis? Were you born with some kind
of "selfish-left-turn gene"? Did your mommy not teach you to share? I
don't tailgate, because that is rude. And I don't SIT AT THE WHITE
LINE before making a left turn, because that is rude too. What I'm
upset about is the rudeness, Travis. And there's enough of it
happening that I thought I would share this particular instance of
rudeness in the hopes that some might change their rude behavior.
Will Fiveash
>
>If I am DIRECTLY behind the lead car, I can see exactly what he
>sees....a clear, safe, open intersection to pull up to while waiting to
>make a left turn. One doesn't have to be the lead car to see that.
I'm sure EMS and the fire dept. support your position on blocking
intersections (not).
Why don't you just relax, go swim in Barton Springs and enjoy life
outside of your car.
--
Will
Ben Howard
Curmit wrote in message <8F74A4C1...@news.earthlink.net>...
>The Polemicist <polem...@my-deja.com> wrote in
><8kseue$u9u$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>:
>
>> Allow me to delurk long enough to rant on something that drives me
>>bonkers...this happens to me at least a couple times a week driving
>>throughout Austin. Here's a personal note to YOU, and YOU know who you
>>are:
>>
of
>the car and beat the shit out of them.
I'm with the frog on this one. Most traffic problems would go away if
all of the scared drivers would go home and grow some BALLS.
Travis Wheatley
The Polemicist wrote in message <8l0fva$qqb$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
>In article <8kvsl2$p5$1...@amdint2.amd.com>,
> "Travis Wheatley" <travis....@deathtoallspammers.amd.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> Seriously though, I totally concur with your 3 step procedure. What I
>take
>> issue with is the original poster's apparent belief that when located
>in a
>> position other than the head car in an intersection s/he is in a
>better
>> position to know when it is appropriate to enter the intersection
>than the
>> driver of the lead vehicle.
>
>sees....a clear, safe, open intersection to pull up to while waiting to
>make a left turn. One doesn't have to be the lead car to see that.
>
You can see what *you* believe to be a clear, safe open intersection.
However, it is not your decision to make. When you are driving the lead car,
you get to make the decision.
[snip]
>> It seems to me that what the original poster is *really* upset about
>is
>> loosing the opportunity to tailgate behind someone who has already
>entered
>> the intersection so s/he can use them as interference to run the
>light.
>
>Thats exactly the point, Travis...if you pull out into the
>intersection, I can pull up behind you, and WE BOTH GET TO MAKE THE
>LEFT!!!
So... let me get this straight. You believe you are actually doing everyone
a favor by prematurly entering an intersection behind a vehicle making a
left turn in front of you so you will be able to (forced to) run the light
when it changes to red?
[snip]
>What I'm
>upset about is the rudeness, Travis.
Hey, nobody likes rudeness. However, I hardly think that one waiting until
they believe it safe to enter an intersection is rude. I do, however, find
tailgaters, especially those who use the car in front of them to act as
interference so they can run red lights, not only rude, but dangerous.
Of course, I won't pretend that there aren't folks out there who appear to
want a gap the size of the Grand Canyon before making a turn. These folks
can be annoying. And yes, I agree that the lead car should pull into the
intersection to wait for a gap rather than doing so at the white line.
However, the bottom line is that the decision of when to enter the
intersection is up to the driver of the lead car, not you. I would much
rather miss a light than have an entire intersection clogged up while EMS
breaks out the jaws of life to disentangle some tailgating jackass who was
too stressed out to wait his turn.
Susan Laxton
> The Polemicist <polem...@my-deja.com> writes:
> >
> >If I am DIRECTLY behind the lead car, I can see exactly what he
> >sees....a clear, safe, open intersection to pull up to while waiting to
> >make a left turn. One doesn't have to be the lead car to see that.
>
> intersections (not).
>
> Why don't you just relax, go swim in Barton Springs and enjoy life
> outside of your car.
>
> --
> Will
How should he/she get there, Will?
Hugh Bob (was STA)
I believe it so. If people were scared of the ramifications of driving
non sensibly than they'd either drive with sense or not drive. There
are busses, one can walk bike, catch a ride with someone else.
..
..
Because nobody's life, liberty or property is safe while Congress is in session.
Hugh Bob (was STA)
<polem...@my-deja.com> wrote:
I propose mandatory targeting rifles from the hood.
Jonathan Royer
If they don't want to pull into the intersection because they feel its
dangerous, then they don't have to. Why should they care if it takes
another second if they don't pull into the intersection because it
will inconvienence you. Its funny that road rage was mentioned. I
think that every instance of bad driving these days is classified as
road rage.
I have noticed that the worse drivers are usually the same ones that
have handicap liscense plates. I have a theaory on this too. The plate
is not really made for parking purposes, but is actually there to
notify the other drivers of the bad driving to expect from the driver
of the car with the handicap plates. The parking thing is to justify
putting these plates on cars so the "cappers" won't get suspicious.
Drive safe
Jonathan
Ruth Shear
Hugh Bob wrote:
> I propose mandatory targeting rifles from the hood.
A year or two go in another a.g thread on Austin traffic, someone
suggested shooting "stupid" signs attached to suction caps. You take out
your aggravation at the stupid driver by getting to shoot one at his
car. When a car accumulates enough stupid signs, they get a ticket.
Satisfying at so many levels. 8-)
DrRuth
Hugh Bob
that is an idea whose time has surely come....I'll vote for it...
Laser tagging could work as well. Enough zaps and the car becomes
immobile for a given time period...yes I like this...it has all the
elements of a fine plan - justice, within reason...
Good post DrRuth !!!
Dave Anderson
> Laser tagging could work as well. Enough zaps and the car becomes immobile for
> a given time period...yes I like this...it has all the elements of a fine plan
> - justice, within reason...
This has existed for years. It has a name, too: Multiple Integrated Laser
Engagement System (MILES). Ask any veteran of the National Training Center.
Dave Anderson
> Laser tagging could work as well. Enough zaps and the car becomes immobile for
> a given time period...yes I like this...it has all the elements of a fine plan
> - justice, within reason...
In all seriousness, we really wouldn't want a system like this, since it
could be abused so easily. It would be a gold mine for stalkers.
Hugh Bob
wrote:
>Hugh Bob wrote:
>
>> Laser tagging could work as well. Enough zaps and the car becomes immobile for
>> a given time period...yes I like this...it has all the elements of a fine plan
>> - justice, within reason...
>
>In all seriousness, we really wouldn't want a system like this, since it
>could be abused so easily. It would be a gold mine for stalkers.
Yeah - I'm well aware of MILES and its failures in the field.
But isn't it conceivable as a working plan...Okay, how about as drRuth
posted, an automated warning...then after a review and talk...I dunno
any other suggestions?
Dusty Rhodes
> Dusty Rhodes <te...@CANSPAMtexas.net> writes:
> >> I agree that some people seem to drive too slow or don't pay attention
> >> to light changes when turning through an intersection but I disagree
> >> with your view that people should drive to the middle of the
> >> intersection and wait there. This is an excellent way to get hit when
> >> someone runs a red light and an excellent way to cause deadlock if you
> >> can't make the turn before the light changes.
> >
> >It's not a POV. It's not a matter of opinion. It's the law.
>
> Please give me a reference. What I recall from driver's education is
> that one should not pull into the middle of the intersection unless one
> can fully complete the turn without stopping. I doubt there is a law
> that requires one to pull into the middle of the intersection to make a
> left.
Wrong-o, though I have no doubt you, and about 75% of other Austin drivers,
believe this to be true. It could be you were told exactly that by some well
maning, not too smart DE teacher. Of course a quick perusal of the rules of
the road, available at any DPS office, will quickly dissuade you from
believeing such utter nonsense in the future.
Heck, it's even in the statute. Someone already posted it, but here it is
again, from Sec. 545.101 of the Transportation Code
(http://capitol.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/codes/TN000097.html), Turning at
Intersection:
(b) To make a left turn at an intersection, an operator shall:
(1) approach the intersection in the extreme left-hand lane
lawfully available to a vehicle moving in the direction of the
vehicle; and
(2) after entering the intersection, turn left, leaving the
intersection so as to arrive in a lane lawfully available to
traffic moving in the direction of the vehicle on the roadway
being entered.
Notice "after entering intersection". This doesn't say you have to pull into
the intersection first, but there's no intelligent reason not to. Try that
kind of crap in Chicago and uncle Stosh will push your ass out into the
intersection with his full size Olds.
> >Besides, how is someone running a red light - seeing as how they would be
> >coming towards you, not from either side, any more of a danger if you're
in
> >the intersection? You're not suggesting the danger is people running a
light
> >at which they are already stopped, are you?
>
> Why can't they run the light on the road that you are making a left turn
> onto and hit you from the side?
Why can't they just hit the "jump" button on the Mach 5 and land right on
top of you? It could happen, right?
Cheers,
Dusty
Import Car Fan
Dusty Rhodes <te...@CANSPAMtexas.net> wrote in message
news:QK7d5.345674$MB.55...@news6.giganews.com...
> "Will Fiveash" <wi...@austin.ibm.com> wrote in message
> news:8l0ali$16co$1...@ausnews.austin.ibm.com...
> > Dusty Rhodes <te...@CANSPAMtexas.net> writes:
> > >
> > >It's not a POV. It's not a matter of opinion. It's the law.
> >
> > Please give me a reference.
> Someone already posted it, but here it is
> again, from Sec. 545.101 of the Transportation Code
> (http://capitol.tlc.state.tx.us/statutes/codes/TN000097.html), Turning at
> Intersection:
>
> (2) after entering the intersection, turn left, leaving the
> intersection so as to arrive in a lane lawfully available to
> traffic moving in the direction of the vehicle on the roadway
> being entered.
>
> Notice "after entering intersection". This doesn't say you have to pull
into
> the intersection first,
So you were wrong; pulling into the intersection is not required
by law.
Clay Colwell
> "Will Fiveash" <wi...@austin.ibm.com> wrote in message
> news:8l0ali$16co$1...@ausnews.austin.ibm.com...
>>
>> that one should not pull into the middle of the intersection unless one
>> can fully complete the turn without stopping. I doubt there is a law
>> that requires one to pull into the middle of the intersection to make a
>> left.
> Wrong-o, though I have no doubt you, and about 75% of other Austin drivers,
> believe this to be true. It could be you were told exactly that by some well
> maning, not too smart DE teacher. Of course a quick perusal of the rules of
> the road, available at any DPS office, will quickly dissuade you from
> believeing such utter nonsense in the future.
There do exist some Defensive Driving courses that actively
teach the erroneous information Will recalls. (It certainly
sparked *my* neurons when I heard the instructor say so, as
it didn't jive with what my Driver's Ed course had taught.)
Dave Anderson
> So you were wrong; pulling into the intersection is not required
> by law.
Correct - it is not required. But it is not prohibited either, and that is
at the heart of this issue. Since it serves to *improve* traffic flow and is
not prohibited, it is the right thing to do.
Not much else to say.
Will Fiveash
>Notice "after entering intersection". This doesn't say you have to pull into
But there are intelligent reasons not to wait in the middle of an
intersection. See below.
>> >Besides, how is someone running a red light - seeing as how they would be
>> >coming towards you, not from either side, any more of a danger if you're
>in
>> >the intersection? You're not suggesting the danger is people running a
>light
>> >at which they are already stopped, are you?
>>
>> Why can't they run the light on the road that you are making a left turn
>> onto and hit you from the side?
>
>Why can't they just hit the "jump" button on the Mach 5 and land right on
>top of you? It could happen, right?
Are you saying people never run red lights? If so, then I'm guessing
logical discourse is futile.
But I'll give some scenarios that illustrate my point (I know I said I'd
stop posting but I can't help myself).
Scenario 1: you are heading North and want to turn West at a lighted
intersection. There is traffic headed South so you can't make an
immediate left turn. There are no cars on the East/West roads.
If you stay behind the white intersection line you could be hit from
behind. If you pull into the middle of the intersection you could be
hit from behind and from the East direction.
Scenario 2: you are heading North and want to turn West at a lighted
intersection. There is traffic headed South so you can't make an
immediate left turn. An EMS truck is trying to go from East to West
through the intersection. If you are waiting in the middle of the
intersection you make it more difficult for them to get through.
--
Will
Dusty Rhodes
news:B59B3667.17B15%joea...@texas.net...
> Import Car Fan wrote:
>
> > So you were wrong; pulling into the intersection is not required
> > by law.
>
> Correct - it is not required. But it is not prohibited either, and that is
> at the heart of this issue. Since it serves to *improve* traffic flow and
is
> not prohibited, it is the right thing to do.
>
> Not much else to say.
Not to mention, it is rather obvious one MUST enter the intersection BEFORE
making the turn. Even the statute says, "...after entering the intersection,
turn left..." But ICF has never been big on logic or accuracy.
As what I said was:
1.Enter intersection
2. Wait for traffic to clear
3. Make turn
...obviously I was 100% right. "After entering intersection," assumes the
completion of step 1.
Cheers,
Dusty
Dusty Rhodes
> Dusty Rhodes <te...@CANSPAMtexas.net> writes:
<snip>
> >> Why can't they run the light on the road that you are making a left
turn
> >> onto and hit you from the side?
> >
> >Why can't they just hit the "jump" button on the Mach 5 and land right on
> >top of you? It could happen, right?
>
> Are you saying people never run red lights? If so, then I'm guessing
> logical discourse is futile.
<sigh> No, I'm not saying that at all. Listen up, because this is getting
tedious. People run through red lights that have just changed. They push the
yellow and cross on the red. Almost never does someone just drive right
through a solid red light that hasn't just changed.
> But I'll give some scenarios that illustrate my point (I know I said I'd
> stop posting but I can't help myself).
>
> Scenario 1: you are heading North and want to turn West at a lighted
> intersection. There is traffic headed South so you can't make an
> immediate left turn. There are no cars on the East/West roads.
> If you stay behind the white intersection line you could be hit from
> behind. If you pull into the middle of the intersection you could be
> hit from behind and from the East direction.
You mean the East direction WITH THE SOLID RED LIGHT? That type of light
running is so insignificant as to be virtually non-existent. You are as
likely to be picked up by a tornado while waiting to make your turn as to be
hit this way.
> Scenario 2: you are heading North and want to turn West at a lighted
> intersection. There is traffic headed South so you can't make an
> immediate left turn. An EMS truck is trying to go from East to West
> through the intersection. If you are waiting in the middle of the
> intersection you make it more difficult for them to get through.
You're not trying to say emergency vehicles go racing through reds at high
speeds under ANY conditions, are you? They don't. They always slow, usually
to a stop, before entering an intersection against the light - or even with
the light, for that matter.
As I've already pointed out, if they're traveling with the light, you are
more in their way if you DON'T enter the intersection. Left turners are
supposed to remain still when emergency vehicles approach from the back or
front. All others are to move right and clear a path.
If the emergency vehicle is approaching from the side, you still sit still.
It will slow before entering the intersection, anyway, and should have no
trouble missing you, unless you're driving an earth mover.
Cheers,
Dusty
J Harris
>
> Dusty Rhodes <te...@CANSPAMtexas.net> writes:
> >Notice "after entering intersection". This doesn't say you have to pull into
> >the intersection first, but there's no intelligent reason not to.
>
> But there are intelligent reasons not to wait in the middle of an
> intersection. See below.
>
> >> >Besides, how is someone running a red light - seeing as how they would be
> >> >coming towards you, not from either side, any more of a danger if you're
> >in
> >> >the intersection? You're not suggesting the danger is people running a
> >light
> >> >at which they are already stopped, are you?
> >>
> >> onto and hit you from the side?
> >
> >Why can't they just hit the "jump" button on the Mach 5 and land right on
> >top of you? It could happen, right?
>
> Are you saying people never run red lights? If so, then I'm guessing
> logical discourse is futile.
>
> stop posting but I can't help myself).
>
> Scenario 1: you are heading North and want to turn West at a lighted
> intersection. There is traffic headed South so you can't make an
> immediate left turn. There are no cars on the East/West roads.
> If you stay behind the white intersection line you could be hit from
> behind. If you pull into the middle of the intersection you could be
> hit from behind and from the East direction.
>
> intersection. There is traffic headed South so you can't make an
> immediate left turn. An EMS truck is trying to go from East to West
> through the intersection. If you are waiting in the middle of the
> intersection you make it more difficult for them to get through.
>
> Will
Will, You're absolutely right on this, despite what Dusty and Dave are
preaching - it may be legal to enter an intersection, and I often do it
myself - however, it's not always safe for the reasons you mentioned.
People do in fact run completely red lights in Austin, and they do run
through stop signs. I see it every day.
JH
Dave Anderson
> Will, You're absolutely right on this, despite what Dusty and
> Dave are preaching - it may be legal to enter an intersection,
> and I often do it myself - however, it's not always safe for
> the reasons you mentioned. People do in fact run completely
> red lights in Austin, and they do run through stop signs. I
> see it every day.
That people run red lights and stop signs simply means it is dangerous to
enter an intersection under any circumstances and whether you plan to turn
or pass straight through the intersection. There is nothing about entering
the intersection legally with the intent to turn that makes it more
dangerous than entering the intersection to pass direcly through it.
If I am stopped in the middle of the intersection waiting to turn left, I am
in no danger of being hit from the right, since I am not in the direct path
of the lanes passing right to left. I can be hit from behind whether I'm in
the intersection or not - I don't see how either would be more likely. Ditto
for being hit by oncoming traffic.
That leaves the possibility that I'll be hit from the left. But I'm waiting
in the intersection because I can't turn, and the only possible reason for
that is the traffic that is passing between me and the cars that might hit
me from the left. Observe:
| C C | | |
| A A | | ^ |
___| R R |_| | |__________
|
<-------- Traffic |
/
<---------- Traffic
/
/
My Car ---/
Traffic --------->
Traffic --------->
___ _ __________
| | | C C |
| | | A A |
| | | R R |
How is it I risk being hit from the left? It is a ridiculous presumption.
Dusty Rhodes
> How is it I risk being hit from the left? It is a ridiculous presumption.
Pree-skiskally. Nice logic chain, Dave. I once had to sit with a native
friend and go through every scenario he could come up with using blocks as
cars to demonstrate the error in his logic. He finally conceded the point,
but it took maybe 30 scenarios to convince him.
Cheers,
Dusty
Fargo 617
pissed as I f-i-n-a-l-l-y a-n-d s-l-o-w-l-y t-u-r-n l-e-f-t
"The Polemicist" <polem...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:8kseue$u9u$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Allow me to delurk long enough to rant on something that drives me
> bonkers...this happens to me at least a couple times a week driving
> throughout Austin. Here's a personal note to YOU, and YOU know who you
> are:
>
> <RANT>
> YOU are in your car and the first person in the left turn lane about to
> make a left turn. It is NOT an arrow-protected left turn. The light
> turns green. YOU stay at the white line, until the very last car has
> pass you from the opposite direction and THEN you slowly meander
> through the left on a yellow light, preventing any of the cars behind
> you in the left turn lane from turning left.
>
> YOU are an idiot, and a potential cause of road rage! Proper
> intersection etiquette as the first person in line is to PULL THE F***
> UP TO THE MIDDLE OF THE INTERSECTION, and TURN LEFT AT THE FIRST
> OPPORTUNITY, allowing others behind you to do the same. If we all do
> this then lots more cars get to turn left instead of JUST YOU.
>
> BTW, this is especially aggravating downtown where there are fewer left
> turn lanes...PULL OUT INTO THE INTERSECTION to make your left, for
> goddsakes!
> </RANT>
>
> Thank you.
Bruno Reich
going to have to learn patience or toss in their keys.. Sounds ridiculous but
not impossible.
-After all..its only a traffic light-
Bruno
Bruno Reich Tx @ AOL.com
Architect and Commercial Builder
Dusty Rhodes
news:20000721170729...@ng-bg1.aol.com...
> Sooner or later individuals in line behind a driver making the left turn
are
> going to have to learn patience or toss in their keys.. Sounds ridiculous
but
> not impossible.
>
> -After all..its only a traffic light-
So you're saying clueless drivers are a fact of life the rest of us should
just deal with. Not bad advice, though I don't see the harm in trying to
spread the word about the proper procedures.
Also, we *are* dealing with it. I haven't heard about any altercations
involving left turns lately. I may think someone an idiot for sitting on
their thumbs at a light, but I'm hardly about to get out and pound on their
window, etc.
Cheers,
Dusty
Dusty Rhodes
news:8laf5u$nhj$1...@samba.rahul.net...
> Dusty Rhodes <te...@canspamtexas.net> wrote:
> > Also, we *are* dealing with it. I haven't heard about any altercations
> > involving left turns lately. I may think someone an idiot for sitting on
> > their thumbs at a light, but I'm hardly about to get out and pound on
their
> > window, etc.
>
I'm not a bird flipping, scream at other drivers kinda guy. Instead, I drive
the people in *my* car crazy with, "Did you see what that idiot did? Did you
see?"
The few times I say anything to other drivers it's along the lines of, "Hey!
Let's go," or, "What *are* you doing?" Other times I'll use the universal,
"What, are you an idiot," sign language. You know, spread hands, upraised
palms and an exaggerated confused/annoyed expression.
I had a guy pull out of a driveway on Duval damn near right into my right
side. Had to swerve hard left to avoid contact. I pulled up next to him at
the next red light, rolled down my window and said, "Hey, I nearly crushed
your Honda back there! Watch out!"
The guy looked at me blankly and said, "Where?" He never even saw me, though
I was driving a big blue, full size extended cab pickup. After I explained,
he apologized profusely. "Well, OK," was my only possible response.
It's amazing how quickly a genuine apology will stem the flow of piss and
vinegar. Most clueless drivers respond with some variation of, "Screw you,"
a sure fire way to spark road rage. I just laugh at such idiots and drive
away.
Cheers,
Dusty
Import Car Fan
am
> in no danger of being hit from the right, since I am not in the direct
path
> of the lanes passing right to left.
You will be in the direct path of those lanes when you make the turn,
and you may be blocking or partly blocking the path of those cars
wanting to turn left.
> I can be hit from behind whether I'm in
> the intersection or not - I don't see how either would be more likely.
You are more likely to be rear-ended by an impatient driver if you pull
into the intersection and have to start/stop because of a red-light runner.
> Ditto for being hit by oncoming traffic.
You be may hit by a red-light runner from oncoming traffic. If you
have a left green arrow, there's much less chance of that happening.
> That leaves the possibility that I'll be hit from the left. But I'm
waiting
> in the intersection because I can't turn, and the only possible reason for
> that is the traffic that is passing between me and the cars that might hit
> me from the left.
This assumes that the other driver actually waits until any possible
red-light runners have slowed down for the red light. They might
not decide to wait. See below.
> How is it I risk being hit from the left? It is a ridiculous presumption.
You're in the intersection, you spot some red-light runners, the light
turns red, the runners blast through the intersection, and the opposing
light turns green. You see some possible red-light runners ahead and
wait a bit for them to either slow or run the light, then you begin to turn
and at the same time an impatient and inattentive driver on the left enters
the intersection and clips your rear-end as you're finishing the turn.
Dusty Rhodes
news:j5ne5.3557$Uo6.1...@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> You're in the intersection, you spot some red-light runners, the light
> turns red, the runners blast through the intersection, and the opposing
> light turns green. You see some possible red-light runners ahead and
> wait a bit for them to either slow or run the light, then you begin to
turn
> and at the same time an impatient and inattentive driver on the left
enters
> the intersection and clips your rear-end as you're finishing the turn.
Impatient? That's a funny way to spell "blind".
Cheers,
Dusty
Dave Anderson
>> If I am stopped in the middle of the intersection waiting to
>> turn left, I am in no danger of being hit from the right,
>> since I am not in the direct path of the lanes passing right
>> to left.
>
> You will be in the direct path of those lanes when you make
> the turn,
That will be true when you make the turn no matter *what* the circumstances
are. It has no bearing on the topic being discussed.
> and you may be blocking or partly blocking the path of
> those cars wanting to turn left.
This is patently false.
> You are more likely to be rear-ended by an impatient driver
> if you pull into the intersection and have to start/stop
> because of a red-light runner.
Please pay attention. You enter the intersection and stop *anyway* while
waiting for the opportunity to turn. This is a complete bullshit scenario.
> You be may hit by a red-light runner from oncoming traffic.
The only way an oncoming car hits me in this case is if he crosses into my
lane. Remember - I am still in my lane, but scooted forward in the
intersection. If he can cross into my lane and hit me in the intersection,
he can certainly do it behind the stripe. Either way, the guy has to be
driving the wrong way in my lane.
And what does it matter if he ran a red light? Are you confusing cross
traffic with oncoming traffic?
> If you have a left green arrow, there's much less chance of
> that happening.
Nobody is talking about how to drive when there's a green arrow. Is there a
point rattling around in your head? If so, perhaps you could coax it out.
> You're in the intersection, you spot some red-light runners, the
> light turns red, the runners blast through the intersection, and
> the opposing light turns green.
The opposing light is my light. Why am I in the intersection *before* it
turns green?
> You see some possible red-light runners ahead and wait a bit for
> them to either slow or run the light, then you begin to turn and
> at the same time an impatient and inattentive driver on the left
> enters the intersection and clips your rear-end as you're
> finishing the turn.
A driver sees his light turn green and doesn't see my car in his direct
path? If this is your reality, then you don't belong on the road, much less
turning left without a green arrow.