Fast Grow Fall Color Tree
Gae Xavier
Sure is a quiet newsgroup of late...
I'll bet a lot of folks think the Chinese Tallow tree is not a very good
tree. But I love mine. I bought and planted the little sapling 2 years
ago. I planted it so I can lie on my bed in the afternoon in the fall
and look out at it.
This year it is about 3 house stories tall and gorgeous color. Last
year it lost most of its leaves before they turned due to the drought
and no fall rain, but this year all the rain has made for a fabulous
show of color.
I have seen them frozen to the ground around town and return to full
stature in a couple of years. I also have a couple of volunteer Spanish
red oak that I love, but the Tallow is special since I planted it to
look out during Sunday afternoon naps and it is very tall and beautiful.
Another not very favored tree is my neighbor's Cottonwood that she keeps
threatening to cut down. It is a delight as a wind chime. When she is
out of town, I go over to water her flowers and I love the sound of its
leaves. I wish I had a tree that sounds so wonderfully like wind in the
aspens of the rockies like this tree. People do not think much about
trees and sounds, just mostly shape and color, but this one "sounds"
great!
Best -- Gae
Gae Xavier
Are you sure you are not talking about the Chinaberry tree or Hackberry? I have
never seen but a couple of volunteers from my tree in the two years I have had
this one, and it is certainly not replacing any native trees on my property, nor
do I see any signs of it in the wild areas around me. In fact, the only place I
have ever seen a Chinese tallow is in town in people's yards, which hardly means
it takes space from native trees or removes habitat for native wildlife.
Duh... I am speechless. Oh well.... Gae
Victoria wrote:
> Chinese tallow trees take space from native trees and remove habitat for native
> species. That is why it is not a suggested or recommended tree. Yours may be
> very nice, but it takes the place of native trees which help native wildlife to
> flourish.
>
> If I see a sapling, I pull it out immediately.
>
> Loosestrife is beautiful also, but it is quickly removing much of the native
> habitat for many species of water birds, up north. But there are still people
> who insist on growing it near waters. Even though it is illegal in many areas.
>
> Oh well.
>
> Victoria
Fred
But after the last rains I dug up about 42 (yes I counted them) saplings.
This tree might look nice in the beginning but it soon gets leggy and rather
unpleasant to deal with.
Fred
In article <o3r42t00r7sq1gns5...@4ax.com>, ani...@animaux.net0
Rusty Mase
wrote:
>Chinese tallow trees take space from native trees and remove habitat for native
>species.
They are not so bad around here. Along the coast they have invaded
and taken over lots of moist or even wet prairies.
That mixed with Japanese Honeysuckle has done major damage to many
areas.
Rusty Mase
Rusty Mase
wrote:
>Regardless, they should not be encourage to be planted and they should be
>removed if they do show up. That is not my opinion, that is the direct
>suggestion by TPW.
Has anyone ever gone to the trouble of extracting the tallow out of
the fruit of Chinese Tallow Trees? Is it useful for anything? The
berries do have a nice thick coating of a white "wax" on them that
could be steamed or boiled off.
Rusty Mase
N. Woolley
confirming their like of moisture. They can be seen from the short
nature trail. The US Army Corps of Engineers think they are pretty.
Hmmm....
At Bright Leaf State Natural Area (TP&W) in Austin non-native species
are being removed. No Chinese Tallow are there, but plenty of ligustrum,
red tip photinia, and nandinas. Non-native species displace natives and
alter habitat for animals.
Rusty Mase
>Are you sure that you are not talking about the Chinaberry tree? My Chinese
>Tallow berries are black, wrinkled and not at all "waxy-looking".
Gae, Chinese Tallow-tree (Sapium sebiferum) should have a white fruit
- three parted. Maybe it is just the seeds which have the waxy
covery. These are Euphorbias and the sap is poisonous by the way.
There is a remark that " the tree is cultivated in China for the wax
of the seed covering which is used for soap, candles, and cloth
dressing". Mineral waxes have replaced most of our use of vegetable
waxes so this is a "historical" agricultural product. Anyway, the
seeds might be useful in some ways.
If we cooked all the seeds for wax we would not have to worry about
their proliferation (for you Victoria). Several of my neighbors have
these trees and I will check to see if the are fruiting.
China-berry is a type of mahogony (Meliaceae) which unfortunately is
used as a landscape tree in the South.
Rusty Mase
Gae Xavier
Tallow berries are black, wrinkled and not at all "waxy-looking".
Well Ok, I messed up big time buying this nature destructive tallow tree at
the local nursery. Maybe I should chop it down and wait for the Chinese
pistache a few feet away to provide fall color for my great-great grand
children?
Best -- Gae
Gae Xavier
seeds hanging all over. It definitely is a "Sapium sebiferum" with the
spade-shaped bright red leaves, which have just recently all dropped. I double
checked it in my tree book.
My Chinese Pistachio is soooo slow growing, I will be in assisted living before it
has a nice show of color. ;) My Fuyu persimmon grows faster than it and has
glorious color most years, but not this year for some reason. It also has
problems with powdery mildew.
Best -- Gae
Victoria wrote:
> I think it may be possible you bought a mislabeled tree. Chinese tallow has
> large clusters of white fruit which remain on the tree all winter.
>
> At least that's what was pointed out to me. Leave it, but don't plant more and
> if more come up, pull those. I'm not trying to guilt you into removing it. I
> thought you were going to plant it because it was fast growing with fall color.
> I didn't k now you had a mature one in place.
>
> Victoria
>
> On Thu, 30 Nov 2000 03:22:34 GMT, Gae Xavier <g...@texas.net> wrote:
>
neil henis
We too are suffering from how slow the chinese pistachio grows. We have had
ours
for two years now and it really does not have much color on it either. Do
you know if it starts to put on a more colorful show as it gets older? I
sure hope so.
Kathy
Gae Xavier <g...@texas.net> wrote in message
news:3A267B8E...@texas.net...
Gae Xavier
in a house you hope to be in for many years, and I have seen pictures of large
colorful ones, but patience is the key to having it because of its slow growth.
And you have to keep trimming out the inner branches that conflict with one
another.
I did not mean to imply that Chinese pistachio gets powdery mildew. It is my
Fuyu persimmon that gets that.
I think maybe sugar maples or native Spanish red oaks are best it you want to
have a fast growing fall color tree. Maybe Victoria or someone on the NG can
suggest a really good one or two. I know the Spanish red oaks at the back of
my property that were volunteers have really grown large and are bright red,
but they are too far away for me to look out on and enjoy.
Best -- Gae
neil henis wrote:
> > > http://www.freetibet.org
> >
Babberney
I think you have it backwards. The seeds have a dark husk-like coat
now, but it will dry and fall, revealing the hard, white seeds. If you
can reach any, rub them between your fingers and I think you'll see what
I mean.
keith
Gae Xavier wrote:
>
> I think maybe the white fruit covering dries, falls off, and leaves black wrinkled
> seeds hanging all over. It definitely is a "Sapium sebiferum" with the
> spade-shaped bright red leaves, which have just recently all dropped. I double
> checked it in my tree book.
>
> My Chinese Pistachio is soooo slow growing, I will be in assisted living before it
> has a nice show of color. ;) My Fuyu persimmon grows faster than it and has
> glorious color most years, but not this year for some reason. It also has
> problems with powdery mildew.
>
> Best -- Gae
>
> Victoria wrote:
>
> > I think it may be possible you bought a mislabeled tree. Chinese tallow has
> > large clusters of white fruit which remain on the tree all winter.
> >
> > At least that's what was pointed out to me. Leave it, but don't plant more and
> > if more come up, pull those. I'm not trying to guilt you into removing it. I
> > thought you were going to plant it because it was fast growing with fall color.
> > I didn't k now you had a mature one in place.
> >
> > Victoria
> >
> > On Thu, 30 Nov 2000 03:22:34 GMT, Gae Xavier <g...@texas.net> wrote:
> >
Kelley C
news:a3bf2t4naqk6h506l...@4ax.com...
> There are fast growing trees, but unfortunately, they also have weak wood
and
> many of them have a poor or weak crotch system which causes cracks, breaks
or
> other problems...down the line. I have found that, in an organic
situation
> ginkgo trees grow pretty rapidly. The one I had up in Dallas put on three
feet
> in one year. It adapts very well to this area and is one of the oldest
trees on
> the planet, reaching back to Jurassic period and beyond. Maples are not
good
> for our region. We have too high a pH, and it gets much too hot. Silver
maples
> are planted by irresponsible builders all the time because they grow very
> rapidly, but they also do not live much beyond 15 years or so. You may
see one
> here or there, but they are a northern tree which needs cooler temps and
more
> rainfall.
>
> I don't like Live oaks because they are a mess, but pin oaks or bur oaks
are
> lovely and have moderate growth.
>
> Victoria
Gingko's good if you like yellow fall color and can fit a huge tree in your
yard.
We planted Chinese Pistache, Flameleaf Sumac, and Bigtooth Maple for fall
color. Bigtooth is indigenous, but expensive. Sumacs had great color last
fall and grow very fast. We had heard that the Pistache was a slow-grower,
but ours grew a foot last year and we did not even plant it until April.
Other than the Red Oak, most of our Oaks do not have much color.
Unfirtunately, the Red Oak may not be a good transplant around existing Oaks
due to its reputation as a carrier of Oak Wilt.
GC
Keith Babberney
Kelley C wrote:
> Other than the Red Oak, most of our Oaks do not have much color.
> Unfirtunately, the Red Oak may not be a good transplant around existing Oaks
> due to its reputation as a carrier of Oak Wilt.
>
> GC
More misinformation about oak wilt . . . though with some grounding in fact .
Red oaks that contract oak wilt die very quickly, perhaps within a couple of
weeks. For that reason, some recommend against them. Also, if a red oak
contracts and dies of oak wilt, then stands for a long time after, it may serve
as a host for the fruiting bodies of the fungus (for the mycologically
challenged, the oak wilt makes mushrooms). The fruiting bodies produce spores,
which may then be carried by insects to fresh wounds on another oak, thus
spreading the disease.
However, if proper precaustions are taken to cover wounds with paint and limit
the pruning of live branches to winter or summer months, they are unlikely to
contract the disease. And if they are promptly removed and disposed of properly
as soon as they die of the disease, the fungus won't have a chance to fruit and
the transmission risk is very low. That does not address the spread of the
disease through root grafts, and if it is diagnosed an aggressive program of
fungicide and trenching is called for, but I would not tell someone who really
likes red oaks to give up on them just because of this disease. Let's face it,
there are no guarantees in life, so we may as well enjoy the things we love
while we can.
Keith Babberney (who prefers a bur oaks to red oaks, and a pistache for color)
ISA Certified Arborist
Kelley C
"Keith Babberney" <ba...@wt.net> wrote in message
news:3A78AB95...@wt.net...
>
>
> Kelley C wrote:
>
> > Other than the Red Oak, most of our Oaks do not have much color.
> > Unfirtunately, the Red Oak may not be a good transplant around existing
Oaks
> > due to its reputation as a carrier of Oak Wilt.
> >
> > GC
>
> More misinformation about oak wilt . . . though with some grounding in
> there are no guarantees in life, so we may as well enjoy the things we
love
> while we can.
>
> Keith Babberney (who prefers a bur oaks to red oaks, and a pistache for
color)
> ISA Certified Arborist
>
Too predictable, I knew someone would respond like this (hence my use of
'reputation').
I personally cannot guarantee that the statements I made are correct or not,
as you certainly cannot refute them. I wanted a Red Oak, but I repeatedly
was warned off due to the potential damage to my neighbors' many
well-established live oaks. I doubt that if my puny new Red Oak transplant
had killed their trees, they would have been satisfied with my response that
'hey, there are no guarantees in life'.
Here are some sights that I used to determine that the Red Oaks would be
more dangerous than Live Oaks:
http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/oakwilt/redoak.htm
http://gardeninglaunchpad.com/OWilt.html
http://www.volente.org/docs/oakwiltarticles.html
GC
Terry Horton
though it's hardly the kind of tree you'd plant as a legacy for generations
to come. Best used for immediate color, and later as an accent, in front of
your new Texas red oak, bigtooth maple, or buttery Ginkgo..
An often overlooked tree for color is Lacey oak. During the growing season,
new growth is peach colored, the mature leaves bluish. And in fall... ours
still has burgundy, flame orange and red. Even some of the summer's
blue-green leaves still hold on, but with their central veins turned red...
spectacular.
A few days ago someone told me a state tree expert (sic) advised them to
take out all their red oaks, to save their live oaks. I could've just
thrown up.
"Kelley C" <kchris...@socal.rr.com> wrote in message
news:QOXd6.133076$y9.25...@typhoon.we.rr.com...
Gae Xavier
"A few days ago someone told me a state tree expert (sic) advised them to
take out all their red oaks, to save their live oaks. I could've just
thrown up."
This sounds like the same sort of reasoning as some doctors who suggest
removing women's breasts, so they do not get breast cancer.
My Chinese pistache has been very slow growing (2-3 inches a year), but since
others have said theirs is growing fast, I think it may be because we are out
west of town in the rocky, hilly part of town and not a lot of depth and
substance to the soil.
Don't forget the native Smoke tree, Cotinus coggygria, brilliant scarlet in
fall and then C. obovatus, brilliant orange in fall. Tolerates full sun in
poor or rocky soil and tolerates drought well. They do not get oak root fungus.
They are more like large shrubs up to 15 feet tall, and sort of shaped more
like a multi-stemmed crepe myrtle than a shade tree.
Where do you find a Lacey oak? Sounds great! Best -- Gae
Chris
From: "Scott McPhee" <hyp...@msn.com>
Date: 1998/06/08
Newsgroups: bionet.plants
A University of California book titled Pests of Landscape Trees and Shrubs
lists two pests:
-Omnivorous Looper: chews leaves
-Root Knot Nematode: galls or swelling on roots
Diseases of Trees and Shrubs by Sinclair et al notes the following:
-anthracnose (caused by Glomerella)
-heart rot (caused by Oxyporus populinus)
-Pestalotiopsis (many manifestations)
-root rot (caused by (Cotton root rot)Phymatotrichum omnivorum) Ginko highly
susceptable
-also has low tolerance to salt
-tolerant of ozone and sulfur dioxide
I have not seen any of the following, but I also do not spend too much time
around Ginkos.
This above information brought to you by,
Scott Mcphee
"Terry Horton" <silp...@jump.net> wrote in message
news:95ban0$ia6$1...@news.jump.net...
Keith Babberney
You seem a little defensive. I'm sorry if I gave the impression I was
criticizing you; my beef is with the information sources that are out there
distorting the facts about this disease.
I looked at all your links. I found nothing in the first two to contradict
anything I said in my earlier post. The third was a collection of newspaper
articles. One in particular I remember seeing when it was originally published,
and I find it as annoying now as then.
The problem, as I see it, with these articles is that they are written by
reporters who interview others about trees (as contrasted with people who
actually know about trees). They often extrapolate or simply misunderstand
statements from their sources and the result is misleading and/or confusing
statements that don't really further the prevention of oak wilt. For example,
"Insects, particularly beetles, carry the disease from red oaks that develop a
sweet-smelling fungus under the bark. Sap-feeding beetles feast on the fungus
and carry it to live oaks, usually through open wounds left by pruning." Though
we assume the fungus may enter through pruning cuts, and therefore paint pruning
wounds, I do not believe anyone can prove that the source of a particular
outbreak is a pruning wound (as opposed to a bulldozer gash, a storm break,
etc.). Thus, to state "most" outbreaks are entering through pruning cuts is
irresponsible and unfounded. I could spend a lot of time picking at the
details of these articles, but you get the idea.
Your concern for your neighbors' trees is commendable, and I don't mean to
belittle the risks of this fungus. However, as I stated before, if a diseased
tree is promptly removed and disposed of properly (as recommended in the sources
you cite), there is no increased likelihood of transmission to live oaks. Red
oaks do not form root grafts with live oaks. The danger is that someone who
loses a tree to oak wilt will not notice and let it stand indefinitely. In
short, the forest service and others who recommend oak wilt are trying to
protect the general public from the uneducated, unobservant homeowner who is
oblivious to what is going on in his own yard. Though I understand why
government agencies and their ilk assume everyone is a moron, it doesn't make me
feel any less patronized when they do so. This may be justified on a
general-public level, but I think someone who truly loves red oaks (the people
who I said I'd suggest enjoying it while they can) would notice if their tree
died in the space of a few weeks and would do something about it--and that
they'd be more likely to take proper precautions to avoid such an infection in
the first place.
In short, I agree that oak wilt is a serious concern and should be treated as
such, but I think we often reach a point bordering on hysteria that serves
little purpose except to make people afraid of their own trees. Someone who
hires a landscape company because their yard doesn't match the deed restrictions
of their neighborhood should probably avoid red oaks and live oaks, because they
are likely to miss the telltale symptoms of disease and may allow it to spread
unchecked until others are affected, as well. But when people who love to enjoy
the outdoors and wish to enhance their home environment spend time on the
internet and in newsgroups (and, dare I say it, the library?) researching the
best choices, it is probably safe to be trust them with the decision to plant a
favorite tree, even if it does happen to have genetic flaws that may shorten its
life span. I didn't mean to sound flip when I said there are no guarantees, but
I truly doubt if any tree species can be considered completely devoid of flaws
that may at some point adversely affect the people who live around them. I
would support your decision to avoid planting oaks, but I wouldn't argue with an
informed client who decided differently.
Keith
TreeDoc
perspective. Red oaks are no threat as long as they do not contract oak
wilt.
Dennis Brown
--
*************************************************
Urban Forestry Resources
********************************************
Dennis Brown, Consulting Arborist
Austin, TX
(512 )263-2798
que...@texas.net
http://quercus.home.texas.net
Terry Horton
natives. Try Madrone Nursery in San Marcos, The Natural Gardener, and
Barton Springs Nursery. It's worth the search.
Gae Xavier wrote in message <3A798AB9...@texas.net>...