roundup and septic tanks
Dow & Yvonne
My husband and I are moving to Houston and purchasing a house that is on a
septic system. The system is in great working condition and there are 3
times as many tanks as required. Does anyone know how septic systems affect
vegetable gardening?
Also, we met the owner of the house this weekend. He was going to mow the
lawn. He pointed out an enclosed area that had been a vegetable garden but
now had lots of weeds and mulch. He said that he was going to put Roundup
all over it to kill the weeds for us. My husband and I are interested in
starting an organic garden, and we told him that we'd love to pull up the
weeds, but he insisted that Roundup was safe and that he didn't mind doing
it. We dropped it. My question is: What should I do about gardening in
this area once we move in? Should we dig up several inches of this dirt and
refill it with nontreated soil? Any suggestions?????
Thanks
Yvonne
John daemen
Dow & Yvonne wrote in message <6oaobd$gvn$1...@news-1.news.gte.net>...
S.L.
>
> Hi,
>
> My husband and I are moving to Houston and purchasing a house that is on a
> septic system. The system is in great working condition and there are 3
> times as many tanks as required. Does anyone know how septic systems affect
> vegetable gardening?
They better NOT!!There should be NO above-ground evidence of where the
tank is- if the grass is greener over the septic tank (or drain field),
then the drain field is overloaded forcing water upward toward the
surface, rather than downard into the ground. A properly working septic
system will last 30-50 years with NO maintenance whatsoever, and will
last virtually forever if the tank is pumped out ever 10-15 years. So
why do so many people have septic tank problems?
- Poor installations with inadequate drainage fields for soil conditions
- Placing the drain field or tank too close to trees, whose roots get
into the system and block proper flow
- Putting washing machine effluent into the septic system- Chlorine and
detergent kill beneficial bacteria, and the water burden overloads the
drain field
- Routing kitchen sink/dishwasher effluent into the system without a
grease trap to separate and independently decompose the grease.
- Flushing things that should never be flushed.
And remember, its a septic SYSTEM not just a septic TANK. A proper
*drainage field* is just as important as an umpteen-chambered fancy
tank!
>
> Also, we met the owner of the house this weekend. He was going to mow the
> lawn. He pointed out an enclosed area that had been a vegetable garden but
> now had lots of weeds and mulch. He said that he was going to put Roundup
> all over it to kill the weeds for us. My husband and I are interested in
> starting an organic garden,
Roundup is a good and useful herbicide. It works on plants that it comes
into direct contact with, then breaks down completely. It is not "root
active" meaning it isn't absorbed through the soil- it doesn't last long
enough. Don't worry. I'd actually go further and use Vapam for a new
garden area, myself, because it kills *everything* in the soil- roots,
fungus, bacteria, insects, weeds, and weed seeds. The only downside is
that it kills earthworms too. It also dissapates completely (kinda neat,
actually- once in the soil it forms a gas that does the work, when you
till the soil again the gas disperses leaving harmless soil behind). Its
a good way to ensure a disease-free garden in the future. We had a
flower bed with some kind of fungal infestation that I could never cure-
everything we planted there got sick and died no matter how careful we
were, or how much I treated the plants. One treatment with Vapam, and
its been healthy and completely weed free without any chemical treatment
at all for >2 years.
--
Stephen Lacker
Applied Research Laboratories, The University of Texas at Austin
sla...@arlut.utexxas.edu (Remove the extra 'x' to mail me)
Hop Hopingardner
> They better NOT!!There should be NO above-ground evidence of where the
> tank is- if the grass is greener over the septic tank (or drain field),
> then the drain field is overloaded forcing water upward toward the
> surface, rather than downard into the ground. A properly working septic
> system will last 30-50 years with NO maintenance whatsoever, and will
> last virtually forever if the tank is pumped out ever 10-15 years. So
> why do so many people have septic tank problems?
> Stephen Lacker
> Applied Research Laboratories, The University of Texas at Austin
> sla...@arlut.utexxas.edu (Remove the extra 'x' to mail me)
Steve you may know far more about what septic systems are than I do; ;however, I
was taught differently concerning dran fields. Number 1, I don't believe in the
square box system that was foisted on the general public. I believe in a long
running field with laterals branching off every 10-15 feet. I was also taught
that the water in a drain field was almost all placed in the atmosphere. 50%
through evaperation [and that's why it is so important that the drain field be no
deeper than 18-25 inches below the ground.] The other 50% is removed through
transpiration [the vegitation over the field draws up the water and puts it into
the asmosphere.] And the grass over a properly designed drain field [according my
sources which were in the plumbing and pipe fitting industry] will most definitely
be greener than the grass just to the side of it! I have a drain filed that is
167 feet long with five laterals in the first 50 feet. The rest of its length was
because I couldn't break through the solid limestone in my yard. I left the far
end [which went through four 90 degree elbows] open to see how long it would take
for the oder to reach the large pit I dug at the end. After two years, I closed
up the pit because the properly sloped drain field never got that far. How much
slope? 1/8 inch to the 10 foot length. Now, explain where I am wrong!
KOKO [ Keep on keeping on] Hop
P.S. The drain field I dug by hand with a sharpshooter in Houston in 1948 on my
father's place is still functioning perfectly. We did have to acidify it three
times over the course of years!
Steve Fatula
have a underground field, instead the cleaner than drinking water water comes
out of sprinkler heads. This is now required in my county, the old style is
not legal. My system has 3 "tanks", this may be what the originator was
speaking of.
S.L.
>
> That is, unless the system is one of the "newer" systems. My system does not
> have a underground field, instead the cleaner than drinking water water comes
> out of sprinkler heads. This is now required in my county, the old style is
> not legal. My system has 3 "tanks", this may be what the originator was
> speaking of.
And Hop wrote:
> Number 1, I don't believe in the
>square box system that was foisted on the general public. I believe in a long
>running field with laterals branching off every 10-15 feet. I was also taught
>that the water in a drain field was almost all placed in the atmosphere. 50%
>through evaperation [and that's why it is so important that the drain field be >no deeper than 18-25 inches below the ground.] The other 50% is removed >through transpiration [the vegitation over the field draws up the water and >puts it into the asmosphere.] And the grass over a properly designed drain >field
There are many different system designs, as you have noted. I was
speaking of the most common *old* type system, and in particular an old
type system where the soil has a high percolation rate.
When the perc rate is low, you see shallow systems like Hop mentioned
where transpiration and evaporation are used. I personally don't trust
these systems to keep the bad bacteria deep enough in the soil to make
the area above the field 100% safe. Yes, its safe 99% of the time when
the tank is healthy and only clean water is getting to the drain field,
but what about when someone has overloaded the tank with chlorine and it
isn't functioning correctly, combined with a wet rainy period when
transpiration can't keep up? Dense development in rural areas using
these systems seems to be an invitation for trouble to me. In areas
where the perc rate is higher, virtually all the water goes down toward
groundwater. The advantage here is that no bacteria are pushed upward to
the surface, and even if bacteria make it into the drain field, they die
for lack of nutirents long before they reach the groundwater (unless, of
course, the field is improperly placed to near the water table).
The very newest systems that Steve mentioned are beyond my experience. I
know how they work in principle, and it is appealing. However, as an
engineer I know that the end user doesn't always keep everything working
right, and these systems are fairly complex. It seems to me (and I could
be wrong!) that these pose the highest risk of spraying harmful bacteria
all over the yard in the event of a system malufinction
And Hop added:
>P.S. The drain field I dug by hand with a sharpshooter in Houston in 1948 on >my father's place is still functioning perfectly. We did have to acidify it >three times over the course of years!
Exactly my point- a properly working septic system is perfectly safe and
environmentally sound. The problems arise when you get *dense*
development with septic tanks instead of central sewage treatment, when
systems are improperly installed, and when systems are improperly used.
The septic system my grandfather built in the late 1940's was retired
last year. It was well inside central Austin (although it was outside
the city when built!) but in an area where the city only recently
extended service because a lift station was needed. The old system was
"dug with a sharpshooter" and the only repair over the years was when my
Dad and I extended the drain field and added 3 lateral lines about 10
years back because an elm tree had grown into the original field and
blocked part of it.
--
Steve Fatula
the new systems like I mentioned REQUIRE that you purchase a maintenance
agreement on the system, and they come with alarms and such. They actually
are much safer that the old, though of course the old systems worked well
also when done right and with the right soil.
I had the old type system in my last house, and with a semi-high water table
on the hill I lived on, water was always coming up during spring when we'd
get a ton of rain up in Tulsa. This system completely avoids that problem by
distributing the water on top of the ground.
But, as you say, under good conditions the old system also worked well.
adiro...@my-dejanews.com
> >
> >Also, we met the owner of the house this weekend. He was going to mow the
> >lawn. He pointed out an enclosed area that had been a vegetable garden but
> >now had lots of weeds and mulch. He said that he was going to put Roundup
> >all over it to kill the weeds for us.
> >
> >Thanks
> >Yvonne
> >
> >Let the old owner spray the bed - the roundup takes 2 hours to affect the
plants it is applied to - and breaks down to a completely harmless state in 3
days on or in the soils - wish you a great garden this season!
>
>
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