Email list status

[Dave Crooke]

Hi folks

[ if you only got one copy of this email, you are missing stuff ]

A couple of years back when our merry band got to around 30, I decided that it was time to have an email list instead of everyone having to keep their own, as it's all too easy to either miss someone or spam someone who no longer has a GT-R

It wasn't really adopted - a lot of people when sending email just hit "Reply All" and change the subject, so people kept sending to collections of individual addresses.

The owner of AustinCarScene.com wanted the list on his on his website, and so ignored mine and created a new one, and we've recently largely been using that. It's had better success since our highest traffic posters (Khib :) did make a point to adopt it, although Ted's been using the Google one. I candidly feel a wee bit poached, ForumFoundry's goals are not necessarily ours, and there are established commerical fora already, notably NAGTROC / GTRlife.

My proposal is to pick one and run with it, and copy one into the other so we're inclusive. I don't really care which, although it will irritate me if and when ForumFoundry winds down, obviously less of a concern with Google :) It's not hard to switch if needed.

If anyone has strong opinions please state them, otherwise I think we'll ask Khib to make the call:)

Cheers

Dave

** at some point, running a website becomes not fun anymore. Individuals tend to drop maintenace drastically after a while. AustinCarScene has been up for about 15 months, and AFAICT ForumFoundry is an evening and weekend project and not yet profitable. The domain is registered to a private house in Cedar Park.

[jason choe]

I'd prefer using the google one due to reasons Dave listed. But not married to anything in particular. 

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[Ted o2g]

Jason, Do you want to organize some GT-R events ?  I'll send u my clusterfucked lists...


Ted o2g

 

---

Date: Mon, 21 Apr 2014 20:05:13 -0500
Subject: Re: [Austin GT-R] Email list status
From: jbc...@gmail.com
To: austi...@googlegroups.com
CC: li...@gtr.austincarscene.com

[jason choe]

Good points John. I never took your list creation as being invasive -- I purely thought we were phasing the old one out (but I guess it's still active). I am open to using any list service as long as it's not a giant list of names we are CC'ing and if it's a list we can continue to maintain regularly (Khib has been all over this). As such I'm all for letting Khib decide :)

On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 10:32 PM, John Gonzalez <jo...@forumfoundry.com> wrote:

I'm not quite sure how to phrase this email. Apparently I have angered someone in the process of trying to help.

After I purchased my GT-R I participated in an ad-hoc mailing list. I say ad-hoc because the list was comprised of CC;ing the entire member base. I thought this was a bit antiquated and didn't want to have my email address participate in the CC storms that these types of lists usually bring about so I offered to start a legitimate mailing list. I had never seen an "Austin" or "Central Texas" based list in use before so I figured there was a need for just such a thing. This list was met with great success and seemed to generate a good amount of participation.

This is the first I'm hearing about an existing list already being established.

I assure you, I never intended to step on anyone's toes. I had no idea there was another list. 

My goals from the start have been to create something useful for Austin GT-R owners. You may notice that at no time have I ever promoted a site that I own on this list.

Dave,

I can't help but feel a little bit insulted with both the tone and content of your email. I have no idea where you got the information about my company (a WHOIS record perhaps?) but it is wildly inaccurate. A simple email to me asking me for information would have been a kind courtesy.

Let me assure you that we have no intentions of closing down the list --- that is, unless the community see's no need for it. We have an office in Cedar Park. I have no idea where you got the idea that we are run out of a house (The domain is actually registered to our PO Box... not sure how that got mistaken for a house in Cedar Park?), or that we are an evening and weekend project, or that we are not yet profitable... we are a multi-million dollar business and we've been around since 2001. I have no idea where you got the other information, please feel free to email me direct and let me know... I am curious :)

You are correct however in saying that we are not Google. Google, certainly, is larger than us. However they also have a track record of shutting down things that are not profitable for them: Google Answers, Google Buzz, the free Google Apps edition, Knol, Google Wave, Google Reader, iGoogle and many more. The list really is too long to mention but you can peruse it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Google_products#Discontinued_products_and_services

Either way, I have no skin in the game and no ulterior motive. I started the list to try and help out the community. I no longer own a GT-R (as of a month or so ago) but had planned to keep the list running until it was no longer needed. If the general consensus is to switch to another mailing list I have no problem with it.

With that said, I'm sure neither mailing list wishes to participate in this drama. Khib is the one who helped me get the list going and the one that seems to coordinate the most on the list. If he wants me to shut this one down I will be happy to do so. 

[Dave Crooke]

Hi all

Jason - exactly my thoughts :)

Ted - you seem somewhat irritated .... I know the present situation isn't working, but we can fix it pretty quickly by merging the lists, including yours

John - please don't feel unloved, this isn't a huge deal. I could care less why you created your own list, it's water under the bridge. I'm rather surprised Khib didn't tell you we had one already before you got started, and I assumed you knew about it and wanted to do a gentle takeover into your world, so I apologise for that assumption. I have no proprietary feelings about it**, my goal being that with the situation of turnover in GT-R ownership I just wanted a list so everyone who wants the emails gets them with no-one left out, and everyone who doesn't can unsubscribe. I told Khib I thought a 2nd listserv wasn't the smartest thing to do, but I dutifully abandoned the Google one in favour of yours - however some people are still using Google. You did undermine / irritate me, but only in the sense of creating another problem - I want one list, not two.

In the spirit of intellectual honesty, I will challenge your assertion, I'm pretty sure Google Groups is not going anywhere - it's not a Friday / labs product, they got into that business deliberately in 2001 by buying an Austin company. In fact, Google got the data, and I bought for my startup about 30 servers for pennies on the dollar in the subsequent auction :) However, there is nothing special about it, and I think it would be kinda cool to use a local firm if it's not a nuisance for you.

Here's my suggestion for clean up:

1. Khib will pick a listserv ... trying to do so by discussion will be a nightmare :) and we all trust his judgement.

2. As the agent provocateur for a unified single list in the first place, I will take care of the clerical part:

- If Khib chooses John's service, I'd ask that John sends Khib and I (and whoever else volunteers :) admin info for his system.

- If Khib chooses Google, I'd ask John to send me the list of addresses from his system

- I'll collect both lists plus people's ad hoc lists, merge and de-duplicate them

- I'll ping people not on either list to verify they would like to be included

- I'll load the final list into the chosen tool

3. Email a shutdown reminder to the old list, then disable it

4. Email an intro to the remaining list

Cheers
Dave

** about 20 years ago, I was among other responsibilities a MajorDomo admin. It's not entertainment, it's a chore :)

[Khib Kugler]

I would prefer to use the austincarscene list. I have been directing new owners to this list, & I think its member list is most inclusive (having just looked at the member listing in prep for the Nissan GT-R owner event).

 

History – In 2009, I started with an owner listing in Outlook on my PC. Early on, Ted started helping to organize, so coordinating a current list between us (& the reply all function) became cumbersome. At some point Dave started the googlegroup list, but it didn’t seem to get buy in (maybe mostly from me being naïve w/googlegroups). John volunteered to set up & maintain the austincarscene list, so I went with it. In NOV 2013 I sent out an email to all groups (I think) at that time saying this was my preferred method of communication, and have been using it since.

 

I really hope no one gets bent out of shape over this – I’m just trying to help the local owners, as Ted, Dave & John are.

Regards,

Khib

___________________________________
AKG Companies
Khib A. Kugler
506 West 14^th Street, Suite B
Austin, Texas 78701-1728 USA
Ph.:    +1 (512) 494 1001 x22
Fax:    +1 (512) 494 1040 
Cell:   +1 (512) 922-1525
email:  Kh...@AKGcompanies.com

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From: li...@gtr.austincarscene.com [mailto:li...@gtr.austincarscene.com] On Behalf Of John Gonzalez
Sent: Monday, April 21, 2014 10:32 PM
To: Dave Crooke
Cc: ATX GTROC list; austi...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [ATX-GTROC] Email list status

 

I'm not quite sure how to phrase this email. Apparently I have angered someone in the process of trying to help.

 

After I purchased my GT-R I participated in an ad-hoc mailing list. I say ad-hoc because the list was comprised of CC;ing the entire member base. I thought this was a bit antiquated and didn't want to have my email address participate in the CC storms that these types of lists usually bring about so I offered to start a legitimate mailing list. I had never seen an "Austin" or "Central Texas" based list in use before so I figured there was a need for just such a thing. This list was met with great success and seemed to generate a good amount of participation.

 

This is the first I'm hearing about an existing list already being established.

 

I assure you, I never intended to step on anyone's toes. I had no idea there was another list. 

 

My goals from the start have been to create something useful for Austin GT-R owners. You may notice that at no time have I ever promoted a site that I own on this list.

 

Dave,

 

I can't help but feel a little bit insulted with both the tone and content of your email. I have no idea where you got the information about my company (a WHOIS record perhaps?) but it is wildly inaccurate. A simple email to me asking me for information would have been a kind courtesy.

 

Let me assure you that we have no intentions of closing down the list --- that is, unless the community see's no need for it. We have an office in Cedar Park. I have no idea where you got the idea that we are run out of a house (The domain is actually registered to our PO Box... not sure how that got mistaken for a house in Cedar Park?), or that we are an evening and weekend project, or that we are not yet profitable... we are a multi-million dollar business and we've been around since 2001. I have no idea where you got the other information, please feel free to email me direct and let me know... I am curious :)

 

You are correct however in saying that we are not Google. Google, certainly, is larger than us. However they also have a track record of shutting down things that are not profitable for them: Google Answers, Google Buzz, the free Google Apps edition, Knol, Google Wave, Google Reader, iGoogle and many more. The list really is too long to mention but you can peruse it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Google_products#Discontinued_products_and_services

 

Either way, I have no skin in the game and no ulterior motive. I started the list to try and help out the community. I no longer own a GT-R (as of a month or so ago) but had planned to keep the list running until it was no longer needed. If the general consensus is to switch to another mailing list I have no problem with it.

 

With that said, I'm sure neither mailing list wishes to participate in this drama. Khib is the one who helped me get the list going and the one that seems to coordinate the most on the list. If he wants me to shut this one down I will be happy to do so. 

On Mon, Apr 21, 2014 at 6:28 PM, Dave Crooke <dcr...@gmail.com> wrote:

[Mark Peskin]

I seem to be a member of the Google groups list, but not the AustinCarScene list, so, if we decide to consolidate (which doesn't seem like a bad idea), it would be great if someone could send out instructions for joining the list - I have an account on AustinCarScene but there's no obvious way to sign up for the list through the web forum interface.

Thanks,

Mark

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Mark Peskin

2501 Briargrove Drive

Austin, TX 78704

(512) 947-4538

ma...@peskin.us

[Mark Peskin]

FYI

---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: John Gonzalez <jo...@forumfoundry.com>
Date: Tue, Apr 22, 2014 at 11:24 AM
Subject: Re: [Austin GT-R] RE: [ATX-GTROC] Email list status
To: Mark Peskin <ma...@peskin.us>

Mark,

Once I get the full list of email addresses from the Google Groups list I will be adding the members, they won't have to do anything to sign up. You may want to pass this along to the Google Groups list as I am unable to send to it.