Ghost Roads of Sydney map (a work in progress)

[Brendan Terrett]

Hey guys,

I've spent the past few days trying to draw up a map which kind of visualises what could have been, if all of Sydney's massive road projects from the 1970s were actually built. 

It's a bit rough and I still haven't finished it, but I'd like to see what you guys think about it, and if there are any improvements (more detail on interchanges maybe?) or other ghost roads that you could suggest. 

Other than the Eastern Distributor and the southern onramps of the Western Distributor which I was able to find plans of where the ramps would have gone, the rest of the map are just assumptions based on the road alignments from a City of Sydney 1971 planning scheme.

[Jason Kumar]

Interesting maps! Now almost 50 years later, almost all of it is being built or under planning (though underground instead)...

Jason.

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[davis]

Interesting. Is this modelled on SATS or CCPS or some amalgam?

eg, Cleveland St is widened, but its no Southern Distributor. Dacey-McEvoy corridor is not the SATS-scale Randwick-Marrickville expressway (and which would, presumably have the opposite grade separate at Anzac Parade).

You can extend your F7 way east. It should connect to the existing Bondi Jn bypass and continue east at the Old South Head Rd corridor off your map for another block or two. F3 would probably cross Iron Cove similarly positioned to the current new bridge.

There's a bunch of other infamous road widenings too. Jersey Rd Woollahra, for example.

[Brendan Terrett]

Yeah, it's just a hodge podge of stuff I've read or heard about. I've never found actual detailed plans on anything, so it all is just thrown together at random.

I know about the Eastern Freeway. Didn't know that it actually continued east of its current terminus though.

What exactly was the Southern Distributor? I thought it was just the pair of widened one way roads going via Goulburn-Hay/Campbell Streets.

[Henry Ung]

I would like to see the proposals beyond Inner Sydney. There has never been any detailed plans from back then. I want to see your take on the F1 Freeway to Wakehurst Parkway, which is the proposed Northern Beaches link.

[davis]

I think I've seen two Southern Distributor "plans" (lines-on-map level of planning), I will see if I can dig anything (but don't count on it).

[Brendan Terrett]

Will probably be doing a couple of maps for different regions of Sydney after I've finished this first one.

[Brendan Terrett]

I was at my uni's library today having a look at some of the historic road plans they had on the shelves.

Here's an interesting plan for the M5 East in the early 1990s, after the original mega above ground freeway plans were scrapped, but before the longer tunnel options were floated - notably including a massive viaduct over Turrella, yet ruining the traffic throughput of the road by having traffic light controlled intersections at Marsh Street and General Holmes Drive...

And look at what fell out of the cover....

You can see heaps of photos I took from these books here:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Mzcl4oqtafVBNk1k2

Includes stuff for the Glebe Island Arterial, M5 East, North West Transport Corridor Study, etc. There's also a few photos from a NSW Traffic Authority book about road classification. Some noice photos of the Gladesville Bridge with "End Expressway Conditions" signs.

I'll probably be heading to other libraries soon to take in some more information.

On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 8:57:51 AM UTC+10, Brendan Terrett wrote:

[Sam Laybutt]

Hah! Nice find 😊

Lucky I returned it...

So much easier doing this sort of research now - was very time consuming making notes by hand or laptop...

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From: aussie-...@googlegroups.com <aussie-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Brendan Terrett <mubd...@gmail.com>
Sent: Wednesday, 27 September 2017 8:47 PM
To: Aussie Highways
Subject: [Aussie Highways] Re: Ghost Roads of Sydney map (a work in progress)

 

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[Barney Beale]

You should try the Google Photoscan app - much better for taking pics from glossy books and avoiding the light glare.

(Not that I'm suggesting you should go back and re-photograph them all!).

[Henry Ung]

Those scanned pages in your Google photos collection are amazing.

I did not know about the alternative M2 motorway that converted Pennant Hills Road into a motorway. It has been labelled as 'Alternative 2' with a trumpet interchange at the current PHR interchange, and also interchanges at North Rocks Rd and Carlingford Road. I am not sure what they were thinking of back then with two 90 degree bends and it abruptly terminating at Carlingford Road.

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[Nathan Carter]

Some awesome stuff there. Thanks for sharing

[Richard Ho]

Those scanned pages in your Google photos collection are amazing.

I did not know about the alternative M2 motorway that converted Pennant Hills Road into a motorway. It has been labelled as 'Alternative 2' with a trumpet interchange at the current PHR interchange, and also interchanges at North Rocks Rd and Carlingford Road. I am not sure what they were thinking of back then with two 90 degree bends and it abruptly terminating at Carlingford Road

 

I'm sure the original EIS for the section of the M2  between Pennant Hills Rd and Epping Road in 1989 would not be initially contructed by the Findings of the Inquiry.

See http://www.ozroads.com.au/NSW/Freeways/M2/m2.htm

"1. The proposed Expressway known as the F2 Stage 1 between Pennant Hills Rd, Beecroft, and Epping Road near the Channel 10 site at Ryde [should] not be constructed by reason of findings of this Commission of Inquiry
2. An alternative upgrading of the existing east-west road system between Pennant Hills Rd and Epping Rd near the Channel 10 site together with other measures including improvements in public transport during peak periods be implemented as a matter of high priority. There is an immediate need to cease peak hour traffic congestion in the east-west corridor from Pennant Hills Rd eastward.
3. The recommended alternative road upgrading would involve -
- As first priority, the initial construction of a bypass near Epping Bridge linking Carlingford Rd to Epping Rd and the widening of Epping Rd near the Epping Bridge to six lanes so that Epping Rd has six lanes for its entire length. Subject to feasibility study, the Commission favours a tunnel linking Carlingford and Epping Roads via Pembroke Street. It should be noted that Epping and Carlingford Roads would continue to be busy roads carrying high volumes of traffic in peak periods even if the expressway is built.
- Upgrading of Epping Road and Carlingford Rd on a staged basis. Widening of Carlingford Rd, an interchange at Pennant Hills Rd and improvements to intersections on Epping Rd would be required over time.
- Local traffic measures to restrict through traffic in peak periods on local streets including Sutherland Road."

[Aevion]

Do mine eyes spot a second Meccano set in that first illustration?

On Wednesday, 27 September 2017 22:47:42 UTC+10, Brendan Terrett wrote:

[Leo Giusti]

You certainly do. It seems to be modeled almost identical to THE Mechano Set. I would have thought they would have gone for a more modern somple structure. 

[Aevion]

A Meccano set smack bang in the middle of a motorway........would've certainly made things interesting.

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[Andrew Ison]

I started a research project a few years ago about the Cooks River expressway - I read the EIS, which had the preferred alignment, and I even took a shedload of photos as well. A lot of that corridor has been retained as a foreshore reserve on the southern side of Cooks River, but other parts of the corridor, such as in Canterbury and Earlwood were either never acquired or the corridors have long since been sold off and developed. 

One day I may finish it...

On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 8:57:51 AM UTC+10, Brendan Terrett wrote:

[Paul Rands]

Some wonderful finds there. Especially nice to see the End Expressway Conditions signs, which got removed in the lead up to the Olympics.

Paul Rands

li...@paulrands.com

On 27 Sep 2017, at 22:47, Brendan Terrett <mubd...@gmail.com> wrote:

You can see heaps of photos I took from these books here:

https://photos.app.goo.gl/Mzcl4oqtafVBNk1k2

Includes stuff for the Glebe Island Arterial, M5 East, North West Transport Corridor Study, etc. There's also a few photos from a NSW Traffic Authority book about road classification. Some noice photos of the Gladesville Bridge with "End Expressway Conditions" signs.

I'll probably be heading to other libraries soon to take in some more information.

On Monday, September 25, 2017 at 8:57:51 AM UTC+10, Brendan Terrett wrote:

Hey guys,

I've spent the past few days trying to draw up a map which kind of visualises what could have been, if all of Sydney's massive road projects from the 1970s were actually built. 

It's a bit rough and I still haven't finished it, but I'd like to see what you guys think about it, and if there are any improvements (more detail on interchanges maybe?) or other ghost roads that you could suggest. 

Other than the Eastern Distributor and the southern onramps of the Western Distributor which I was able to find plans of where the ramps would have gone, the rest of the map are just assumptions based on the road alignments from a City of Sydney 1971 planning scheme.

[Paul Rands]

Great job Brendan

Paul Rands

li...@paulrands.com

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