Possible northern extension of Memorial Drive

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#130km/hforthehume

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Dec 1, 2022, 4:51:38 AM12/1/22
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A bit of a strange question, but are there any plans to turn Memorial Drive into a full motorway or at least a northern extension of Memorial Drive to the Princes Motorway?

Although I couldn't find any solid plans suggesting this, there is a road reservation (although not a solid one), taken from the ePlanning Spatial Viewer. In addition, roads like https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-34.33742/150.91165 or https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/-34.3082/150.9002 are the kinds of incomplete interchanges (probably not the right word, though) that you'd find on possible future extensions.

 Screen Shot 2022-12-01 at 19.56.35.png

I made a quick mock-up of what a potential extension could look like using Google Maps. The northern two kilometres will likely have to be tunnelled due to the Illawarra Escarpment.
Screen Shot 2022-12-01 at 20.21.20.png

This brings me to the next question, are there any plans to grade-separate the four at-grade intersections on Memorial Drive? From a quick analysis, the York Road intersection can be removed with no major interruptions to traffic, while there seems to be enough space to construct interchanges on the other three. In saying that, what happened to the original plan on https://www.ozroads.com.au/NSW/Freeways/F8/f8.htm?

Am I the only one to think that Mount Ousley Road and the Bulli Pass are roads that cannot sustain medium- or long-term growth to the Illawarra? Both routes are steep, especially for heavy vehicles. Even for non-heavy vehicle road users, Mount Ousley Rd doesn't have a "motorway feel"; it only takes one road closure to lead to a domino effect, hampering effective travel between New South Wales's largest and fourth-largest cities.


Paul Rands

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Dec 1, 2022, 4:58:50 AM12/1/22
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I remember a few old Gregory’s street directories showing a reservation marked out in the yellow zone of the first image, but not heard of much more than that nor the imagery you’ve presented.

With all that said, there’s always been 2 sections of the Southern Freeway, prior to dual signing of Princes Motorway and Mt Ousley Road, and I’d say that was something that was kept in mind for future use for the Northern Distributor (which is a better name than Memorial Drive IMO).

You’re right though, neither Mt Ousley Rd nor Bulli Pass offer a good solution, especially with ever-increasing traffic volumes. 
On 1 Dec 2022, at 8:49 pm, #130km/hforthehume <thenorthernt...@gmail.com> wrote:

A bit of a strange question, but are there any plans to turn Memorial Drive into a full motorway or at least a northern extension of Memorial Drive to the Princes Motorway?

Although I couldn't find any solid plans suggesting this, there is a road reservation (although not a solid one), taken from the ePlanning Spatial Viewer. In addition, roads like https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/-34.33742/150.91165 or https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/-34.3082/150.9002 are the kinds of incomplete interchanges (probably not the right word, though) that you'd find on possible future extensions.

 <Screen Shot 2022-12-01 at 19.56.35.png>

I made a quick mock-up of what a potential extension could look like using Google Maps. The northern two kilometres will likely have to be tunnelled due to the Illawarra Escarpment.
<Screen Shot 2022-12-01 at 20.21.20.png>

This brings me to the next question, are there any plans to grade-separate the four at-grade intersections on Memorial Drive? From a quick analysis, the York Road intersection can be removed with no major interruptions to traffic, while there seems to be enough space to construct interchanges on the other three. In saying that, what happened to the original plan on https://www.ozroads.com.au/NSW/Freeways/F8/f8.htm?

Am I the only one to think that Mount Ousley Road and the Bulli Pass are roads that cannot sustain medium- or long-term growth to the Illawarra? Both routes are steep, especially for heavy vehicles. Even for non-heavy vehicle road users, Mount Ousley Rd doesn't have a "motorway feel"; it only takes one road closure to lead to a domino effect, hampering effective travel between New South Wales's largest and fourth-largest cities.



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#130km/hforthehume

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Dec 1, 2022, 7:14:04 AM12/1/22
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(minor correction to my first message: there are five at-grade intersections, not four)

In saying that, could it be that TfNSW has plans for Northern Dist./Memorial Drive extension when OSO Stage 2 (the southern corridor) materialises off the table?

AlienChex

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Dec 1, 2022, 7:47:08 AM12/1/22
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The northern distributor reserve initially plans a full freeway grade road all the way to the Lawrence Hargrove drive intersection. The road then splits (this intersection part is already complete and was done a few years ago with the LHD off-ramp). The only missing link is the Bulli town bypass, which I don’t think they have deemed nessecary, yet at least. The reserve still remains for when they do build a bypass.

They need to fix the Bulli Tops intersection first, that’s a mess.
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#130km/hforthehume

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Dec 5, 2022, 1:09:45 AM12/5/22
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This probably got lost in my first message, but why wasn't the Northern Dist/Memorial Dr constructed to full-freeway standards? Was it due to the cost, or was it just another attempt to win votes? I can't seem to find any website that suggests why it wasn't.

Otherwise, Mount Ousley Drive could do with some significant upgrades (upgrading Clive Bissell Dr, New Mt Pleasant Rd, and Mt Ousley Rd intersections to interchanges) and removing tight curves. However, this still won't sustain for long – something needs to be done before the Illawarra reaches a population of 500,000.

Sam L

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Dec 5, 2022, 1:25:14 AM12/5/22
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Essentially because a full freeway was not required on that corridor; the limited-access arterial road provides adequate capacity. 

From: aussie-...@googlegroups.com <aussie-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of #130km/hforthehume <thenorthernt...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, 2 December 2022 9:07 PM
To: Aussie Highways <aussie-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] Possible northern extension of Memorial Drive
 

Sam L

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Dec 5, 2022, 6:12:14 AM12/5/22
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Something like the 'F5 1/2' route alternative considered in the late 1990s may eventuate. There's no doubt there's a need for a third route up/down the escarpment and moreso for through/port traffic than local traffic. 
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Sent: Thursday, 1 December 2022 5:49 PM
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Subject: [Aussie Highways] Possible northern extension of Memorial Drive
 

AlienChex

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Dec 5, 2022, 9:48:42 PM12/5/22
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The primary reason for the Memorial Drive semi-freeway was to act as an alternative in case a big slip or crash took out Mt Ousley Road. The traffic could be funnelled onto memorial drive easily and travel via the Pass (there would still be delays, but it would be much better)

Aevion

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Dec 8, 2022, 5:03:32 AM12/8/22
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Somehow I think accesses for Clive Bissell Drive and New Mount Pleasant Road are more likely to be closed than upgraded to full interchanges. It'd be a fun challenge to get an interchange put in at the latter, but then this whole road (let alone any road up the escarpment) represents a significant challenge. Perhaps Clive Bissell Drive could be extended north to Picton Road if the demand was there. The intersection at the bottom of the range is on its way out, with early works on the interchange having already begun. Major construction is expected to start next year.

You're definitely right though; the two current roads up the escarpment certainly can't handle all that traffic for much longer in their current state, and with reports over the years suggesting Mount Ousley is slowly slipping, it makes me wonder why progress is so slow on a solid plan for a new route. Even the upgrades to Mount Ousley Road north of Picton Road seem to have been forgotten. But for some reason I just can't see them using the northern end of Bulli Pass for a high-standard dual-carriageway road, so I wonder if there is something to your suggestion of a tunnel through there.

Paul Rands

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Dec 8, 2022, 8:12:48 AM12/8/22
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I don’t think it’s worth retaining Clive Bissell Dr as it doesn’t offer property access, but is an alternative route if Mt Keira Rd is closed at the Picton Rd end. 

Given the very old style reflector posts and the way it connects to Mt Ousley Rd, I would assume this was the way down the hill from Mt Ousley Rd before the current alignment was built.

That really leaves the turn from the SB carriageway onto Picton Rd to be resolved and better deceleration and acceleration lanes for the NB side.

Mt Pleasant Rd access really should have been closed off ages ago, but I assume there’s some squeaky wheels that have kept it open. That said, it is a long trip into Fairy Meadow and out again to access that part of Mt Pleasant.

Sam L

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Dec 8, 2022, 8:38:12 PM12/8/22
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Yes it was. 

From: aussie-...@googlegroups.com <aussie-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Paul Rands <li...@paulrands.com>
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Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] Possible northern extension of Memorial Drive
 

AlienChex

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Dec 8, 2022, 9:51:47 PM12/8/22
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When the new Mt Ousley Road exit and interchange is finished, the New Mt Pleasant Road exit should be closed off. It’s too dangerous and the rat running is awful. As for the Clive Blissel Drive, it is hardly ever used, the whole road could be closed off and no one would notice.

A few years back there were plans for Mt Ousley Road to be widened and realigned north of Picton road, but it appears nothing has happened since the plans were revealed (typical NSW)

Sam L

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Dec 8, 2022, 10:02:17 PM12/8/22
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There's no point closing Clive Bissell Drive unless the rest area/parking area is also removed as that's where a lot of the exiting traffic comes from. I also don't think it is worth closing - a proper acceleration lane would be included in any upgrade/improvement to the Picton Road intersection. 

From: aussie-...@googlegroups.com <aussie-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of AlienChex <harrison...@gmail.com>
Sent: Friday, 9 December 2022 10:51 AM
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Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] Possible northern extension of Memorial Drive
 
When the new Mt Ousley Road exit and interchange is finished, the New Mt Pleasant Road exit should be closed off. It’s too dangerous and the rat running is awful. As for the Clive Bissell Drive, it is hardly ever used, the whole road could be closed off and no one would notice.

#130km/hforthehume

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Dec 11, 2022, 5:13:22 AM12/11/22
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Could an interchange along the lines of my quick draft be a feasible interchange for Clive Bissell Drive? Unlike other parts of Mt Ousley Rd, this section is somewhat flat, meaning that an underpass could theoretically work.

A quick key: purple = roads to be removed; black = new road, though this is unlikely to ever happen. Map info is sourced from Mapbox.
Screen Shot 2022-12-11 at 15.16.41.png

AlienChex

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Dec 11, 2022, 5:49:46 AM12/11/22
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Not enough traffic uses Clive Bissel for it to be feasible tbh. It’s best left as it is

Aevion

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Dec 11, 2022, 6:01:05 PM12/11/22
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Also probably too close in proximity to Picton Road for RMS' liking.

#130km/hforthehume

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Dec 11, 2022, 11:52:42 PM12/11/22
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and while we were discussing this, look what I found: https://www.illawarramercury.com.au/story/8009120/the-worst-section-of-mt-ousley-road-for-crashes-revealed/

Released three days ago on the 9th.

#130km/hforthehume

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Jul 28, 2023, 6:21:31 AM7/28/23
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A bit of a revival to this old thread, but I stumbled upon https://www.mynrma.com.au/-/media/documents/reports-and-subs/upgrading-road-connectivity-between-the-illawarra-and-greater-sydney.pdf from the NRMA. It has different proposals, including a 3-kilometer tunnel from the M1 to Picton Rd (essentially eliminating the need for Clive Bissell Rd), potential rail improvements, and a potential Memorial Drive extension, in addition to everything that's already out on TfNSW's website (e.g. Mt Ousley interchange, upgrades north of Picton Rd). Just if anyone wasn't aware but interested.

Paul Rands

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Jul 30, 2023, 10:27:49 AM7/30/23
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This is a long but good read. It also identifies several things I remember saying to someone that needed to be done soon, and that was like a decade ago.
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