Exit / junction numbering system in NSW

[Andrew Ison]

I have been wondering if a system like it could work in NSW (based on either distance or overpasses / underpasses) in terms of better aiding navigation, or it would be a completely superfluous addition to the motorway system?

 

Using Queensland as an example, are the exit numbers on the Pacific Motorway a central part of the daily discourse with traffic reports, etc.?

[Leo Giusti]

I know when we have visited QLD in the past we liked their exit numbers. I would support them in NSW especially for turists. My biggest problem with them is the National Standard design for the signs/patches they go on.

On 25 October 2013 21:37, Andrew Ison <andrew...@gmail.com> wrote:

I have been wondering if a system like it could work in NSW (based on either distance or overpasses / underpasses) in terms of better aiding navigation, or it would be a completely superfluous addition to the motorway system?

 

Using Queensland as an example, are the exit numbers on the Pacific Motorway a central part of the daily discourse with traffic reports, etc.?

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[Spenser Tan]

So you're saying that they don't understand what the word 'EXIT' means?

[Michael Mak]

Exit number is different to the 'exit' sign where the former identifies the exact exit. If you're not familiar with the area, having an exit number really helps so that you won't miss it. I found them helpful too when I visited Brisbane couple of years ago. 

The Victorian system is slightly different to the one in Queensland. Queensland allocates the number by the distances where as Victoria allocates the number by the number of exit, if there is new exit is added, you'd probably get 4A, 4B etc.

If NSW introduces it, hope they will have the right design right at the beginning.

Michael 

Sent from my iPhone

[Paul Rands]

I prefer the QLD implementation, but you need to make sure the origin is correct :)

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[Erk]

I love the exit numbering system in Qld. The RMS have said they'll look at it after the alpha conversion but think it is a good idea as well.

I can see it being good for tourists & non locals, especially. Instead of a vague report of "On the M4 between Blacktown & Penrith", a "I just passed exit 35" is a lot better in the case of an incident.

The relevant people in Qld do use exit numbers & road names for reporting purposes.

Erk
near the M4 & former SR73 intersection

[Paul Rands]

The QLD system also means less chance of duplicated numbers as most interchanges are over 1 km apart

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[Leo Giusti]

What would you do in NSW for Walgrove Road and M7 for example.

[Paul Rands]

This could be setup in 2 ways, either treat it as one interchange or have exits with suffixes. This would be the exception to most exit numbers, and was used in QLD for Penny Lane ext (41A from memory), before the ramp was removed.

[Alex Csar]

A third option is to have one set of exits - usually those for the road of lesser importance so, in the case of Light Horse, those for Wallgrove Road - "falsely" numbered 1km away (higher, in this example). So if the exit for the M7 is signed as Exit 39 (being about 39km from Sydney - that's just a rough guess, no doubt someone knows the exact measurement), the exit for Wallgrove Road would be signed as Exit 40 even though it is merely a couple of hundred of meters away.

No doubt we'll have another debate over exit numbering - some people like distance-based, some people like sequential. (Some people drink Pepsi, some people drink Coke, the wacky morning DJ says democracy's a joke...)

Cheers,

Alex.

[Lachlan Sims]

Exit numbering is widely used on the US interstate system with most states applying the distance based model.

Their datum points are either the southern or western commencement of the particular road.  In most cases this is the state border.

Some states (New York) use the sequential numbering system, and others (Pennsylvania) were originally sequential and converted to distance (adding temporary "former exit XX" appendages to signage.

In cases of an interchange with multiple exits, the numbers are appended with A, B, C etc.

Not sure of the best approach in Australia, given our motorways/freeways are generally radials from major city centres.  The problem with this is the ad hoc application of two different datum points for the same network (Queensland) for non CBD based motorways which sort of negates the benefits of distance based numbering in the vicinity of the overlap.

Lachlan

[Paul Rands]

In the case of distance based, you could base 0 km from the state border the route starts from. The issue with that is we have freeways that end and start in nowhereville :)

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[Musa Hodzic]

I'd start the numbering from the capital city of each state, so even if the motorway hasn't gone through it, once it does, it won't affect the rest of the numbering.

[Sam Laybutt]

I think exit numbers are great and that distance based numbers are the only way to go. Would be awesome to have Gold Coast Hwy as Exit 936 lol

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Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] Exit / junction numbering system in NSW
From: scanor...@gmail.com
Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2013 23:28:04 +1100
To: aussie-...@googlegroups.com

[Sam Laybutt]

Wallgrove Rd would be 43B as an example.

With the M4 origin shit gets interesting with Westconnex

Western Distributor gets interesting too

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From: paul...@gmail.com
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 00:22:44 +1100

Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] Exit / junction numbering system in NSW

To: aussie-...@googlegroups.com

[Sam Laybutt]

I think your last paragraph overstates the problem a bit.

Distance based has the following benefits:

- from any given point on the motorway you know how far your exit is
- accommodates expansion of the motorway without getting messy, particularly for the Pacific snd Hume highways where at-grade junctions will be closed or grade sepped

I dont see the datum point being too much of an issue as you just need to know ur exit number and thats it. Obviously radial numberd ftom Sydney work well for those routes. M7 Gets a tad tricky but again as long as you know ur exit is number 42 it doesnt matter what number exit u get on at then u know how far it is

The M1 transition at the QLD/NSW is an issue but that will slways happen at State Borders. Do US states have the same problem?

Also a potential issue with the Pacific is the reduction in distsnce due to proposed deviations. This would need to be accommodated in the initisl scheme to avoid renumbering north of ballina.

Another question - would you provide exit numbers on non grade sepped sections? Eg the M31/b81 jct could get an exit number. Also you would want m31/m23 to have one?

Sorry if this doesnt make sense - on fone and its a pain to type

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Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] Exit / junction numbering system in NSW

From: lachl...@gmail.com
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 07:38:51 +1100
To: aussie-...@googlegroups.com

[πbound88]

Some good points there.

Roads on orbital alignments would need to be arbitrarily numbered.

A full orbital roadway like the Sydney orbital is likely to be confusing. but could be split into N and S type exits depending on whether north or south of the start point. This would end up with the exits on the western side being like xzN, and xyS near the 180degree point.

Pacific/Princes might also need a N/S identifier... Someone from overseas might say the accident was at Exit xy on the M1, with a N/S identifier you'd know whether it was the Princes or Pacific Motorway

State borders would probably need a sign like: "Exit numbers decrease towards Brisbane"

Should the exits extend by distance from Sydney, or by distance from start of roadway.

US states bypass this by arbitrarily declaring certain ends of the road to always be the starting point IIRC.

ACT/NSW could probably be integrated into the same system. Though it'd be a bit silly if NSW insisted on the Sydney end being the start location for the Federal and upgraded Barton Highways. I cant see the ACT bothering to rollout the system though, theres not enough need.

Exit numbers for non-grade separated intersections is going to end up mega confusing. Especially on say the Federal Highway with its numerous farm access roads near the Goulburn end. Splitting Motorways should probably not have a plain exit number. Perhaps something like EXIT M23 or EXIT To M23.

[Mees]

No worries Sam; this makes absolute sense.

While I generally believe that the advantages and disadvantages of either system more or less outweigh each other, I would say that in NSW there is little alternative for km-based numbering. During a period of slow growth (and that including stretches of dual carriageway with level crossings that might very well be closed over time), sequential numbering is nothing short of a gamble. Surely there is also some gambling element when it comes to future deviations that lengthen or shorten the overall route, but this will never lead to huge deviations - also because for increases or decreases of no more than 1 or 2 kilometers, I would be happy with a small "jump" in the numbering.

The biggest disadvantage would be that, in a state with the size of NSW, you would end up with very high numbers for exits. Much more so than in the US. As far as that is concerned, I would suggest using Sydney GPO (or a strategic point in Sydney's freeway network, such as Sydney Harbour Bridge) as a km0 for routes radiating out of Sydney only. If they ever started numbering the junctions of other routes -say the Sturt Highway-, then their numbering would start with km0 at the terminus. As a rule of thumb, you could use the terminus that is closest to Sydney / the East Coast as km0. For routes radiating around Sydney, you could choose either terminus as a km0 as it won't make a lot of difference anyway. And for exits that are more than 1000 kms away from the terminus, you could rely on the Chinese approach. If you are beyond km999 of a particular road, they slice off the first digit of the exit number. So the exit near km1234 becomes exit 234.

On state borders, you get a reset of numbering indeed. This is common in the US, but also in South Africa (where, incidentally, the numbering is still based on pre-1994 provincial borders). As Lachlan mentioned, km0 is almost invariably on the Southern state line (for N-S routes) or Western state line (for E-W routes), which eliminates the risk of duplicate exit numbers near state borders. In other words, even though the numbers are reset every now and then, they will always increase as you drive. If all Australian states used their capitals as km0, interstate drives would always see reversals at the state border. This somewhat increases the chances of duplicates in the same region, but chances are still slim. And I would say that there is a definite upside in having the lowest numbers in the areas that are most densely populated, being the state capitals and the coast generally.

All the best,
Mees

[Sam Laybutt]

I was thinking more along the lines of major junctions only.

It seems a waste to terminate exit numbering on the Hume at Berrima, it would make much more sense to extend it all the way to the border. That would give isolated grade-separated junctions like the M31/A48, M31/M23, M31/A25, M31/B72, M31/A20 junctions exit numbers, as well as incorporating the other freeway sections (e.g. Gundagai, Holbrook, Albury). 

Numbering other major at-grade junctions would also be of benefit - e.g. the M31/B81, M31/B94 junctions. I wasn't suggesting numbering every property access or even every public road junction.

On the M23, for example, you could have:

Exit 1: M31 (or you could make Exit 14, with the 0 point being Goulburn)

Thornford & Wollogorang Roads optional but I've excluded them for this example

Exit 21: Church St, Collector

Exit 22: Tarago turnoff at Collector

Exit 23 (or 24): Murray St, Collector

Exit 50: Shingle Hill Way

Exit 51: Bungendore Road

Exit 58: Macs Reef Road

Exit 59: Sutton Road

Exit 63: Eaglehawk Hill

Exit 67: Majura Road

That would give the benefits of exit numbering to a road which otherwise wouldn't qualify. ACT could continue the exit numbering down the M23 if they wanted to.

Thinking about what roads I'd see numbered:

- Sydney motorways

- M1/A1 north & south (datum point Sydney GPO)

- M15 (datum point Newcastle)

- M23 (datum point either M31 or Goulburn)

- M31 (datum point Sydney GPO)

- A37 (maybe, not sure on this one) (datum point southern A43 jct)

I don't really see any benefit rolling it out to any other routes in the foreseeable future. 

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Date: Fri, 25 Oct 2013 20:23:20 -0700
From: nbou...@gmail.com
To: aussie-...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] Exit / junction numbering system in NSW

[Sam Laybutt]

Can't argue with any of that really, although I would say that the four-digit issue is a non-event in any of our lifetimes as even the Pacific Motorway will be in the 3 digits at its extremity. 

Albury-Wodonga and Coolangatta-Tweed Heads will have inconvenient numbering resets but it's unavoidable given that the M31 is essentially continuous now and the M1 will be within say a decade. 

Looking at US examples, shorter interstates seem to have continuous cross-border numbering (e.g. I-29, I-670 etc at Kansas City) whereas through routes tend to just reset the numbering at the border. 

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Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 11:34:03 +0200
From: roe...@gmx.net
To: aussie-...@googlegroups.com

Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] Exit / junction numbering system in NSW

[Spenser Tan]

Why not the other motorways like M2, M4, etc?

[Sam Laybutt]

"Sydney motorways" was the first item on my list

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Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 04:21:19 -0700
From: falcon...@gmail.com

To: aussie-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] Exit / junction numbering system in NSW

[Leo Giusti]

For the Federal Highway, why not just continue the same scheme as used on the Hume Highway? If they were both measured from Sydney, I don't see an issue and considering NB traffic on the Hume Highway has to do a U turn and thus use the SB exit, the only issue I see with it being done that way is the small(?) ammount of traffic heading SB from the Federal Highway down the Hume Highway.

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[Sam Laybutt]

I'm agreeable to that too. 

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From: ttd...@gmail.com
Date: Sat, 26 Oct 2013 22:25:00 +1100

Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] Exit / junction numbering system in NSW

To: aussie-...@googlegroups.com

[Mees]

In NSW, there won't be any 1000+ km motorways in our lifetimes, at least not as long as you take Sydney as the terminus (taking the state line with Vic as a starting point might get you somewhere though). In Queensland, we might at one stage see the freeway part of the Bruce Highway make it beyond 1000 kilometers. And who knows about Western Australia?

Speaking of Queensland, there may be an arguable case there for using the Southern border as a datum point rather than Brisbane. It just requires a complete reset of those roads already done in that state ...

On 26 October 2013 13:16, Sam Laybutt wrote:

[Omegaville]

Yeah you have to build in some kind of "spacing" - just like Dewey did for library book numbering, and just as BASIC and COBOL programmers did in the 1970s.

The Queensland system is superior.  I think the problem with the Victorian one is there are several exits spaced close together, e.g. on West Gate Fwy - using distances would still cause duplicates.  BUT, that's where a blend of the two systems would work - use distances, start at the outsides and count inward, and then when you get closer to the city, just go in sequence.

Will try calculating some of these for you shortly to see how it would look.

[Omegaville]

Pepsi Max for me - I find its taste superior to Coke Zero. :)
And +1 for your suggestion there Alex.

[Paul Rands]

One of the few times a QMR system would be classed as superior :)

[Omegaville]

So... applying the better idea... here's what I came up with for the M1 in Melbourne.
My datum point is the Kings Way interchange - seems relevant with that being the old "Princes Hwy" route from the mid-1960s onward.

Sorry if these tables look weird... pasting from Excel 2010 into Thunderbird.

Going west:

ROUTE	NAME	DIST	EXIT
MR60	Kings Way	0	1
MR30/MR55	Montague St	1.3	W2
MR43/M2	Tullamarine Fwy	2.7	W3
	Todd Rd	3.7	W5
MR37	Williamstown Rd	7.6	W7
MR41	Millers Rd	10.4	W10
MR39	Grieve Pde	12.1	W12
M80	Western Ring Rd	13.2	W13
MR35	Kororoit Creek Rd	16.6	W16
	Altona Meadows	19.3	W19
MR41	Point Cook Rd	20.7	W20
	Palmers Rd	21.7	W21
	Forsyth Rd	22.8	W22
C109	Princes Hwy	25.1	W25
	*Sneydes Rd	27.5	W27
C108	Duncans Rd	30	W30
C109	Princes Hwy	34.4	W34
	Little River Rd	42.4	W42
	Point Wilson Rd	45.1	W45
	Beach Rd	52	W52
	Avalon Rd	55.7	W55
A10, C115	Princes Hwy, Shell Pde	60	W60
C704	Bacchus Marsh Rd	63.1	W63
	Anakie Rd	66.6	W66
A300	Midland Hwy	70	W70
B140	Hamilton Hwy	75	W75
C136	Barrabool Rd	78.4	W78
A10	Colac Rd	81.9	W81
C134	Anglesea Rd	84.9	W84
A1	END FREEWAY	87.9	W87

And going east:

ROUTE	NAME	DIST	EXIT
MR60	Kings Way	0	1
	Power St	0.35	E2
	Batman Ave		E3
MR29	Punt Rd		E4
	Church St		E5
	Barkly Ave	4.1	E6
	Yarra Bvd	4.8	E7
MR26	Toorak Rd	8	E8
MR17	Burke Rd	9.5	E9
MR24	High St	10.6	E10
MR15	Warrigal Rd	14.8	E14
MR47	Huntingdale Rd	16.5	E16
	Forster Rd	18.5	E18
MR13	Blackburn Rd	19.8	E19
MR22	Ferntree Gully Rd	21	E21
MR40	Springvale Rd	21.9	E22
MR18	Wellington Rd	23.6	E23
	Jacksons Rd	26	E26
M3	EASTLINK	27.6	E27
MR9	Stud Rd	30	E30
MR14	Heatherton Rd	31.8	E31
M420	South Gippsland Fwy	34.4	E34
	Belgrave-Hallam Rd	36.3	E36
	Tinks Rd, Ernst Wanke Rd	37.9	E37
C404 (MR63)	Narre Warren North Rd	40.2	E40
C101	Princes Hwy	41.9	E41
C407 (MR61)	Clyde Rd	44.5	E44
	Old Princes Fwy	47.7	E47
	Cardinia Road	53.7	E53
	McGregor Rd	57.3	E57
	Healesville-Koo Wee Rup Rd	58.9	E58
C433	Nar Nar Goon Rd	65.7	E65
	END FREEWAY-ISH

East is a bit more difficult as the exits on the original South Eastern Freeway are "cramped".
With West, I included Sneydes Rd because the government recently announced new plans for the area, and a freeway exit may figure in those plans.  I also made Todd Rd "W5" in case any Port Melbourne/Fishermans Bend redevelopment sees alteration, or if a second Yarra crossing is constructed in the area... I'm futureproofing a little. :)

Going to try some of the other freeways and see how I go :)

If you wanted to measure distances from GPO, add approximately 2km to every value.

[Omegaville]

Reminds me of something I noticed in Tasmania years ago, on the Bass Hwy from Devonport to Burnie.

Grade-sepped exits, the sign says "EXIT Xkm".
At-grade, it says "JUNCTION Xkm".

Just a nice feature which would have been useful in other states. :)

[Omegaville]

Maybe it's just easier if I attach my worksheet.

I also came up with numbers for Tullamarine Fwy, Ring Rd, EastLink and Mornington Peninsula Fwy.  I like the idea of having a letter prefix as it's easy to uniquely identify an interchange without having to name a freeway.  Hence:

T1, T2 etc for Tullamarine Fwy - distances from West Gate Fwy  T=Tullamarine
G1, G2 etc for Ring Rd - distances from Greensborough Hwy.  G=Greensborough
P1, P2 etc for MP Fwy - distances from Springvale Rd.  Includes unbuilt section to Sorrento.  P=Peninsula.
F1, F2 etc for Eastern Fwy and EastLink.  Distances from Flemington junction, so I'm taking into account the East-West tunnel.  Hence Hoddle St is F5.  As E is taken, I used F - this can either be the origin (Flemington) or the terminus (Frankston) :)

[Mik Scheper]

On Sunday, 27 October 2013 11:47:09 UTC+11, B.J. wrote:
> So... applying the better idea... here's what I came up with for the
> M1 in Melbourne.

Nice work, but I'm afraid I'm not a fan of the 'E' and 'W' exit numbers in Melbourne.

I'd really like to see NSW do it the way they do it in New Zealand, most US states, most South African states, some Canadian provinces and some European countries: based on distances from the border. It would mean 4-digit exit numbers by the time you hit Coffs Harbour, but there are 4-digit exit numbers in Spain and Chile, and they seem to cope with them okay. Most exits along the M1 in Sydney would be in the 500s or so, but only single- and double-digit on other freeways... which is pretty the same as Auckland, and makes perfect sense.

Of course, they should follow route numbers, and not repeat the mess Queensland made of it, where the M1 has duplicate exit numbers that reset at Eight Mile Plains because they follow the M3 instead.

And yes, having multiple exits within the same kilometre is no problem—they just get letter suffixes, as others have said. There are nine exits within mile 51 of Interstate 90 in Chicago, and they're numberred 51A to 51I—it works just fine. (And it's another reason I found Melbourne's E and W confusing, when I first saw it.)

Cheers,
MikZ.

[Paul Rands]

Totally agree. I also don't like how they are signed in Victoria either. QLD do it better.

Paul Rands
li...@paulrands.com

[Phillip McCallum]

What would you say are the chances of the Pacific Hwy exits being renumbered to comply here in Queensland?  I suspect they would like to, but I don’t reckon it is likely to ever happen due to the public reaction.

 

Phillip

 

 

From: aussie-...@googlegroups.com [mailto:aussie-...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Rands
Sent: Friday, 6 February 2015 6:23 AM
To: aussie-...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] Exit / junction numbering system in NSW

 

Totally agree. I also don't like how they are signed in Victoria either. QLD do it better.

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[Mik Scheper]

It's nice to hear that Queenslanders are critical about that sort of thing. Here in NSW, the Government's spent millions stuffing up public transport signage, and they seem to have gotten away with it. They're replacing the internationally standard symbols for trains, trams, buses and ferries (🚌, 🚆, etc. if your font supports them—yes, they even have unicode characters) with letters in circles... but choosing 'L' for trams ('light rail') so as not to conflict with 'T' for heavy rail trains. It's not clear they have anything to do with transport at all, so of course, nobody from outside the state really knows what they mean, especially if they don't read English. I work in a touristy area, and I overhear people assuming 'T' stands for 'toilet' or 'telephone', or ask perfectly reasonable questions like 'why are all the trains on the "T" line?' They've convoluted all the rail line colours as well, so instead of looking for, say, the purple Inner West line, you have to look for one of the green lines, and remember whether Inner West trains go along the 'Campbelltown via East Hills' or 'Macarthur via Liverpool' (or something) branch, even though those trains don't go to any of those places.

Anyhoo, I do think Queensland's M1/M3 exits ought to be renumbered, but it's nice that what the public is used to matters. (I suppose the public didn't notice the duplicated route numbers... A3, state route 10, etc.)

Cheers,

MikZ.

[Paul Rands]

Mikz, I agree that changeover is a disgrace.

Things used to be simple, coloured lines and pictograms, easy to take in when in a hurry, and easy for those who don't speak English or have literacy problems.

The renumbering in QLD was meant to happen, until someone mentioned legal action over it, from what I understand. I think a lot of people would expect compensation to have their advertising and signage changed.

 

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li...@paulrands.com

[Luke Wright]

On Friday, February 6, 2015 at 1:25:33 AM UTC+11, Mik Scheper wrote:

And yes, having multiple exits within the same kilometre is no problem—they just get letter suffixes, as others have said. There are nine exits within mile 51 of Interstate 90 in Chicago, and they're numberred 51A to 51I—it works just fine. (And it's another reason I found Melbourne's E and W confusing, when I first saw it.) 

Could there also be potential for confusion between the "W" and "E"-prefixed exits that they've implemented on the M1, and the "W" and "E"-suffixed exits that they've signed for, for example, Ring Road interchanges? Now the M80/Tulla interchange works are complete, they've signed the southbound Tulla exits as "13W" and "13E" (based on the direction of the Ring Road) as opposed to something like 13A/13B like you'd get in most of the US (or Auckland for that matter). 

~ Luke :)

[Mik Scheper]

G'day, Luke et. al,

On Wednesday, 11 February 2015 09:45:24 UTC+11, Luke Wright wrote:

Could there also be potential for confusion between the "W" and "E"-prefixed exits that they've implemented on the M1, and the "W" and "E"-suffixed exits that they've signed for, for example, Ring Road interchanges? Now the M80/Tulla interchange works are complete, they've signed the southbound Tulla exits as "13W" and "13E" (based on the direction of the Ring Road) as opposed to something like 13A/13B like you'd get in most of the US (or Auckland for that matter). 

I've seen that, too, on New York's parkway system, and a couple of other places vaguely in that part of the world. On the New Jersey Turnpike, for example, the last few exits before the tunnel into NYC have numbers suffixed with 'E' and 'W', but then there's an extra one they've suffixed with 'X'. I'm pretty sure these are some of the oldest numbered exits anywhere, and that in the rest of the US, they made a decision based on that experience to just go sequentially from 'A'. I suppose Victoria wants to have its own experience... how American of them. :-P

I suspect the reason the US made that decision is that not all interchanges are Cartesian enough for compass points to make sense. Take the M7/state route 61 interchange in the Sydney suburb of Blacktown, for example. The M7 turns from longitudinal to latitudinal not far from that point, and the exits feed Richmond Road, which goes east and north, and Rooty Hill Road, which goes south. It's not a great example, because there's only one ramp in each direction off the M7, but if at some future point they decide to add a clover loop or something, giving it a compass point suffix could be confusing for all sorts of reasons.

One source of confusion relates to a problem that persists in the US, caused by the fact that route numbers are always accompanied by the general direction of travel. I really wish they'd also do that in Australia, but it does lead to oddities, like Interstate 80 east and Interstate 580 west being duplexed through the San Franciscan suburb of Berkeley, in the same direction along a stretch of freeway that's actually longitudinal. And I still get stuffed around whenever I'm on US-101 in Silicon Valley: generally, the 101 is longitudinal, but through the Valley it's latitudinal. There's an interchange in Palo Alto that feeds three different local roads, and I always end up on the wrong ramp, because the exits are labelled 'north' and 'south'. To me, it's the 101 goes north and south, so I expect the local roads to go east and west... but they don't. The M7 stuffs me around similarly. (Interstate 90 through Chicago is a bigger example—through Chicago, and most of Illinois, it's longitudinal, but across the US, it's latitudinal, so the Chicagoans just need to deal. But they've got much bigger traffic hassles to worry about.) But despite this, I still think directions along route numbers are handy—I've often found myself going down a highway in Australia, wondering why the sun's in my eyes that afternoon, even though I thought I was going east. :-P

Anyhoo, as much as I'm enjoying this discussion, I'm not sure how fruitful it is. I wish the appropriate people at the Roads and Maritime Service were approachable about this! I honestly think the way they've renumbered route numbers in NSW is a complete mess—there's no relation at all between a route number and what part of the state it's in, or what direction it's likely to go in. They wanted all the 'A's below 50 and the 'B's above 50, as if that somehow clarifies their importance, and by the time they consulted the public, they'd gone too far down that road to replan it. The old state route numbers had a vague association with their geography, and the RMS missed a golden opportunity to make the numbers even more meaningful. I worry that, without guidance, any exit numbering scheme in NSW would be just as great an opportunity lost, and that they'll end up ballsing it up like Queensland and Victoria. I can only hope that some RMS people monitor this list, but having worked for the RMS myself, I understand it would be against their policy to comment.

Mik.

[Omegaville]

Perhaps on the Tullamarine Freeway, those M80 exits could have been 13A for Altona-bound and 13G for Greensborough.
Or for the literal drivers, 13L (go LEFT from Tulla) and 13R (go RIGHT).

I have no problem with the W/E exits on the M1... but then again, I think people should bother to read a map and learn the exits :)

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[Mik Scheper]

On Saturday, 14 February 2015 12:49:55 UTC+11, B.J. wrote:

Perhaps on the Tullamarine Freeway, those M80 exits could have been 13A for Altona-bound and 13G for Greensborough.
Or for the literal drivers, 13L (go LEFT from Tulla) and 13R (go RIGHT).

I have no problem with the W/E exits on the M1... but then again, I think people should bother to read a map and learn the exits :)

But isn't the whole point of signage to help people unfamiliar with an area?

This is exactly the reason I want to see directions with route numbers. I can't tell you how may times I've been in a spaghetti pile of an interchange with two ramps for the A-123, one to Foomore and the other to Barsham, and all I know, from having looked at a map, is that I want to go south, towards the B-456 turnoff, which is in Woop Woop.

Mik.