M12 Motorway name

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Johnny Telcher

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Jun 5, 2023, 12:56:31 AM6/5/23
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What do you think the M12 Motorway be called?

I think it will be most likely called Elizabeth Motorway as it pretty much supersedes Elizabeth Drive as the main road between The Northern Road and the M7.

davis

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Jun 5, 2023, 3:59:12 AM6/5/23
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Not being a PPP, it doesn't really have a pressing "need" for a name. 

While the NSW government is copping some heat for its predecessor naming the development surrounding the airport "Bradfield", nonetheless let's call it "Bradfield Highway". I'm sure that won't be confusing.

Jason Kumar

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Jun 5, 2023, 4:19:27 AM6/5/23
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Have a feeling they'll just call it the M12 motorway.  Northconnex didn't even get a new name and route number which was a shame. Elizabeth motorway would be nice though

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#130km/hforthehume

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Jun 5, 2023, 5:09:21 AM6/5/23
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Maybe WSA Motorway/Freeway, which is actually somewhat of an intuitive name? Most motorways in Sydney have other names; they're just not signed. Elizabeth Motorway seems unlikely given the naming of the Hunter Expy.

Might seem like an arbitrary question, but what does "PPP" mean, davis?

ed24f1

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Jun 6, 2023, 9:49:59 AM6/6/23
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Public Private Partnership

Nihat

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Jun 8, 2023, 12:44:53 AM6/8/23
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Hopefully it can be named after a significant Western Sydney or airline pioneer. There probably would be opportunities on the shared path also. A wonderful opportunity and there are benchmarks from other cities around the world with their main arterials to the airport. 

On Mon, 5 June 2023, 2:56 pm Johnny Telcher, <johnny...@gmail.com> wrote:
What do you think the M12 Motorway be called?

I think it will be most likely called Elizabeth Motorway as it pretty much supersedes Elizabeth Drive as the main road between The Northern Road and the M7.

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AlienChex

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Jun 9, 2023, 7:58:00 AM6/9/23
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Nancy Bird Motorway? Why not name it after the airport 

Nihat

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Sep 23, 2024, 2:50:11 AM9/23/24
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Nihat

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Dec 18, 2024, 1:49:34 AM12/18/24
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Paul Rands

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Dec 27, 2024, 7:18:19 AM12/27/24
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Those aerial videos are awesome. Can't wait for this to open to get pix!

Nihat

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Jan 2, 2025, 2:48:49 AMJan 2
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End of year video: https://media.caapp.com.au/embed/gs1ry2?autoplay=true
Includes an example of signage, it looks OK but I would have preferred the M12 to be brighter. I thought they had moved that way going forward but at least it is borderless. 

Presumably the signs earlier on the motorway will specify airport here is Western Sydney. 
image.png

Hubert Lam

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Jan 3, 2025, 10:33:44 PMJan 3
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Nancy Bird Walton Motorway? 😊


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davis

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Jan 4, 2025, 12:42:19 AMJan 4
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It's already her airport. The equivalent would be the naming of "Southern Cross" Drive being Kingsford-Smith's famous aircraft. Walton was a mostly known as WOMAN employed pilot, but it seems her first personal aircraft was a DH60G named "Vincere".

I don't know that "Vincere Motorway" makes a great name though...

Luke W

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Jan 4, 2025, 4:58:38 PMJan 4
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I can only think that with what seems like NSW naming policy about motorways and tunnels that have a number, it'll just stay the "M12 Motorway" publicly (heck, even Northconnex lost its name on most signs once it finally got a number, to just become the "M11 Tunnel").

Not exactly like there's a need for a brand for the project beyond that since it's toll-free, either. On the other hand, you could use the precedent of the M4 getting its "Western Motorway" name back when it briefly went toll-free as an argument the other way.

I do wonder how they will delineate the two in places where it's needed... thinking places like the M5/M7 interchange which could point you to either. Even just "SYD" or "WSI" attached to the airport logos there.

Nihat

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Mar 6, 2025, 2:43:40 AMMar 6
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Another flyover video from the M7 to Airport interchange, some more signage visible here

image.png

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Henry Ung

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Apr 12, 2025, 10:14:51 PMApr 12
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I went for a drive along Elizabeth Drive.
This was taken at Range Road, near the Sydney International Shooting Centre.
Wallgrove Rd has be realigned further west to meet the Elizabeth Drive off ramp heading east.



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Paul Rands

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Apr 13, 2025, 10:14:23 AMApr 13
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Some of those new signs look a little busy.

Good to see M12 on a sign though.

On 13 Apr 2025, at 12:14, Henry Ung <vendet...@gmail.com> wrote:

I went for a drive along Elizabeth Drive.
This was taken at Range Road, near the Sydney International Shooting Centre.
Wallgrove Rd has be realigned further west to meet the Elizabeth Drive off ramp heading east.
<1000012251.jpg>


On Thu, 6 Mar 2025, 18:43 Nihat, <lbj2...@gmail.com> wrote:
Another flyover video from the M7 to Airport interchange, some more signage visible here

<image.png>

Nihat

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Apr 13, 2025, 4:49:20 PMApr 13
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Agree. If only they had made the signage public for feedback. Frustrating 

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AlienChex

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Apr 14, 2025, 8:49:55 PMApr 14
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The intersection signs with M7 will be very busy, because M7 signs always show the “long” destination (Newcastle and Canberra) since it acts as the city bypass. I wonder if the “Sydney” destination will point north to the M4 or south to the M5

Sam L

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Apr 15, 2025, 4:31:37 AMApr 15
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Based on the RD sign in the thread below, Sydney is measured via the M7/M4 route.

From: aussie-...@googlegroups.com <aussie-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of AlienChex <harrison...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 15 April 2025 8:49 AM
To: Aussie Highways <aussie-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] M12 Motorway name
 

Nihat

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May 10, 2025, 3:33:48 AMMay 10
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Latest flyover video

Another sign, really glad they are using overhead directional but disappointed they look to not be implementing the blue signage as in other states for a toll road as per one of the recommendations of the toll review. 
image.png



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Sam L

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May 10, 2025, 10:43:42 PMMay 10
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Yes, this sign is particularly poor as it is the last exit before the toll is payable. So why show 'TO M7 MWY [TOLL]' which can easily be misunderstood as saying this section is not tolled!

Compare that with the M7 eastbound approaching Norwest Boulevard (last exit before M2 toll is payable) - it is very clear that straight ahead is a tolled road. 


Also curious to note no indication of which route to Kingsford-Smith Airport from here?

Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] M12 Motorway name
Latest flyover video

Another sign, really glad they are using overhead directional but disappointed they look to not be implementing the blue signage as in other states for a toll road as per one of the recommendations of the toll review. 
image.png



On Tue, 15 Apr 2025 at 18:31, Sam L <crazykn...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Based on the RD sign in the thread below, Sydney is measured via the M7/M4 route.

From: aussie-...@googlegroups.com <aussie-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of AlienChex <harrison...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 15 April 2025 8:49 AM
To: Aussie Highways <aussie-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] M12 Motorway name
 
The intersection signs with M7 will be very busy, because M7 signs always show the “long” destination (Newcastle and Canberra) since it acts as the city bypass. I wonder if the “Sydney” destination will point north to the M4 or south to the M5


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AlienChex

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May 11, 2025, 5:42:20 AMMay 11
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IMO, that Norwest sign should remove the M7 route number because going straight must join M2 and this means paying another seperate toll to the existing M7 that just ended. This is not made clear by the sign unless you know about the different motorway tolling schemes.

We really should just have a reform on toll motorway signs and make them a blue, but a different colour to that of existing blue signs (eg Hospital)

Luke W

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May 13, 2025, 1:08:54 AMMay 13
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On Sunday, 11 May 2025 at 7:42:20 pm UTC+10 AlienChex wrote:
IMO, that Norwest sign should remove the M7 route number because going straight must join M2 and this means paying another seperate toll to the existing M7 that just ended. This is not made clear by the sign unless you know about the different motorway tolling schemes.

It's a relic from when they originally co-signed M7 all the way to/from Pennant Hills Road - presumably with the intent to also give NorthConnex the M7 number eventually, making it a direct swap for the Cumberland Highway route - and the reason you give is probably exactly (part of) the reason why they stopped doing that soon after.

There is a big sign that says "last exit before M2 [toll]" in the central reservation near the Norwest Blvd sign but that used to say something like "last exit before Pennant Hills Road" in the very early days of the M7 [the west-facing Windsor Road ramps weren't done yet], trying to show the M7 as a seamless thing that included that bit of the M2 as well. Given the two separate tolling systems, that pretty much went down like a lead balloon.

There's certainly merit to switching to the gold-on-blue for toll roads that VIC and QLD do, but for whatever reason TfNSW isn't interested.

Sam L

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May 15, 2025, 12:04:10 AMMay 15
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The end of project-based tolling and adoption of a consistent per-km toll charge with a cap would eliminate this issue with M2/M7.

From: aussie-...@googlegroups.com <aussie-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of Luke W <lwr.c...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 13 May 2025 1:08 PM

To: Aussie Highways <aussie-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] M12 Motorway name

Paul Rands

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May 16, 2025, 6:02:54 PMMay 16
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Yuck. That looks horrible.
On 10 May 2025, at 17:33, Nihat <lbj2...@gmail.com> wrote:

Latest flyover video

Another sign, really glad they are using overhead directional but disappointed they look to not be implementing the blue signage as in other states for a toll road as per one of the recommendations of the toll review. 
<image.png>



On Tue, 15 Apr 2025 at 18:31, Sam L <crazykn...@hotmail.com> wrote:
Based on the RD sign in the thread below, Sydney is measured via the M7/M4 route.

From: aussie-...@googlegroups.com <aussie-...@googlegroups.com> on behalf of AlienChex <harrison...@gmail.com>
Sent: Tuesday, 15 April 2025 8:49 AM
To: Aussie Highways <aussie-...@googlegroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Aussie Highways] M12 Motorway name
 
The intersection signs with M7 will be very busy, because M7 signs always show the “long” destination (Newcastle and Canberra) since it acts as the city bypass. I wonder if the “Sydney” destination will point north to the M4 or south to the M5



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ed24f1

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May 17, 2025, 10:05:49 AMMay 17
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Hopefully there is a Last Exit Before Toll sign at least

AlienChex

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May 18, 2025, 9:23:18 AMMay 18
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I’m predicting the church street problem where there’s a queue of traffic getting off the last exit to use wallgrove road or Elizabeth drive to avoid the tolls

Nick Willoughby

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Jun 18, 2025, 10:05:34 PMJun 18
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I drive it everyday for work, just stay on the Ms untill you reach the airpot, the M2, LCT, Harbour Crossings, ED and Southern Cross Dr, 
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