Parenthesis on distance signs

[Michael Greenslade]

Further to the other discussion regarding the use of parenthesis, has
anyone seen a distance sign dominated with destinations in
parenthesis. Im thinking probably in SA, Victoria or Tasmania where
these rules have been followed with some level of competence.

Heres a couple that come to mind for me:

http://www.hotkey.net.au/~krool/photos/sa/O'Halloran%20Hill-Main%20South%20Rd3.jpg
(a bit steep for Noarlunga Centre to get a guernsey here as it is only
a couple of km from the A13).

and again - just down the road, the parenthesis are on the wrong
destinations:

http://www.hotkey.net.au/~krool/photos/sa/O'Halloran%20Hill-Main%20South%20Rd4.jpg
(I'll give TSA some leniance here as the sign was erected before the
A13 existed, nevertheless unacceptable):

Cheers,
Michael

[Sam Laybutt]

I definitely have - it's just a matter of remembering exactly where.
 
As an aside - Tassie uses parenthesis even on ADs and IDs and it is not that uncommon to have fingerboard signs where all destinations are in parenthesis.
 
What grinds my gears about the Tasmanian implementation is that sometimes a major location near the route is not actually signed as focal destinations generally 'have' to be on the actual route.
 
Route B52 in Tassie is a link between the Bass & Midlands Highways and, as such, has long distance focal points so plenty of parenthesis used. Also, every town bypassed by the Bass Highway has parenthesis now. 
 
> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 19:47:47 -0700
> Subject: [Aussie Highways] Parenthesis on distance signs
> From: m.gree...@goodwinmidson.com.au
> To: aussie-...@googlegroups.com

[Conrad Zalewski]

Heading East along the GWH between Penrith and Blacktown, there's a lot of them.

 

Mt Druitt, Rooty Hill, Richmond all come to mind.

 

Pardon my ignorence, but what do they actually mean?

--


Conrad...

[Sam Laybutt]

Heh, good example of why the RTA has been phasing them out :-)
 
They mean that the focal destination is not on the route that you are on and you will have to turn off that route to get there. For those who understand this (i.e. not many people because RTA doesn't publicise these things!) it is a cue to keep an eye on signs looking for your turnoff, or alternatively relax because you know if you keep following that route you will get there eventually.
 

---

Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 13:30:21 +1000
Subject: [Aussie Highways] Re: Parenthesis on distance signs
From: f1f...@gmail.com
To: aussie-...@googlegroups.com

 

Pardon my ignorence, but what do they actually mean?

---

Sell your car fast. Need a new model in your life?

[Conrad Zalewski]

Which makes sense why on GWH, a route from Bathurst to Parramatta it'd be quite common. Thankyou.

Conrad...

[davis]

hmmm. Maybe not very useful in the metropolitan area where you have to
get off a road to go anywhere.

But those RD signs should be removed anyway. The Great Western Highway
is no longer a thoroughfare, it's a glorified service road.

[Tristan Anderson]

Hi,
See below for comments.

On 2009-07-24 12:17, Michael Greenslade wrote:
> Further to the other discussion regarding the use of parenthesis, has
> anyone seen a distance sign dominated with destinations in
> parenthesis. Im thinking probably in SA, Victoria or Tasmania where
> these rules have been followed with some level of competence.
>
> Heres a couple that come to mind for me:
>
> http://www.hotkey.net.au/~krool/photos/sa/O'Halloran%20Hill-Main%20South%20Rd3.jpg
> (a bit steep for Noarlunga Centre to get a guernsey here as it is only
> a couple of km from the A13).
>
>

Do parenthesis follow the road name or the route number? If they follow
the route number this sign is ok. Either way, the funny thing is that
Mclaren Vale is off the A13 and a good few kms from Main South Rd.

> and again - just down the road, the parenthesis are on the wrong
> destinations:
>
> http://www.hotkey.net.au/~krool/photos/sa/O'Halloran%20Hill-Main%20South%20Rd4.jpg
> (I'll give TSA some leniance here as the sign was erected before the
> A13 existed, nevertheless unacceptable):
>

Looks like they were following the road name here, in which case this
sing is absolutely correct. All the destinations in parenthesis are off
Main South Road by several kms.
> Cheers,
> Michael
>
Regards,
Tristan

[Sam Laybutt]

Parenthesis should relate to the route number, first and foremost. If there's no route number then it would apply to the relevant road (usually done by legal classification rather than specific name).
 
As MG suggested, the sign in the first photo was made at/after A13 was introduced and hence the parenthesised destinations are located off A13. The sign in the 2nd photo pre-dates the introduction of A13 and consequently the use of parenthesis is based on Main South Road.
 
> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:42:28 +0930
> From: tri...@tristan-anderson.id.au
> To: aussie-...@googlegroups.com

> Subject: [Aussie Highways] Re: Parenthesis on distance signs
>
>

[Sam Laybutt]

I love RD signs...
 
I don't see what is wrong with keeping them given they now have the 'local' destinations rather than Penrith, Parramatta and Sydney (or Katoomba in the opposite direction).
 
Most people wouldn't use the M4 for only one or two exits unless they lived south of the GWH in any case... and I'm sure the RTA is pleased about that.
 
> Date: Thu, 23 Jul 2009 22:02:39 -0700

> Subject: [Aussie Highways] Re: Parenthesis on distance signs

> From: hornet...@gmail.com
> To: aussie-...@googlegroups.com

>
> But those RD signs should be removed anyway. The Great Western Highway
> is no longer a thoroughfare, it's a glorified service road.
>

---

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[Paul Rands]

When I lived in Penrith, I used the GWH as much as the Western Mwy.

For a few reasons. Local travel from Penrith to Werrington / Claremont Meadows, and also when the freeway was chockas during peak hour.

My 32 km run from Penrith to Seven Hills took 75 to 90 minutes on a good day, but ballooned out to 2.5 hours sometimes. And occasionally it was easier and quicker to use the highway instead. I also had a good rat run thru Blacktown and Doonside, depending on how bad things got.

During my last week in that job, the drive home took 3 hours, because there was 2 crashes on the freeway (one at Mincinbury and one at St Marys) and 1 on the GWH (at Mt Druitt). It took 30 minutes from Seven Hills to the Western Fwy and an hour to go from Prospect Hwy to Wallgrove Rd. In the end I got off at Wallgrove Rd and went up Elizabeth Drive, and Northern Road, I don't know if I made up lost time or not, but I was certainly less stressed when I was moving along Elizabeth Dr.

--
Paul Rands
paul...@gmail.com

[Sam Laybutt]

Parenthesis should relate to the route number, first and foremost. If there's no route number then it would apply to the relevant road (usually done by legal classification rather than specific name).
 
As MG suggested, the sign in the first photo was made at/after A13 was introduced and hence the parenthesised destinations are located off A13. The sign in the 2nd photo pre-dates the introduction of A13 and consequently the use of parenthesis is based on Main South Road.
 
> Date: Fri, 24 Jul 2009 14:42:28 +0930
> From: tri...@tristan-anderson.id.au
> To: aussie-...@googlegroups.com

> Subject: [Aussie Highways] Re: Parenthesis on distance signs
>
>

[Tristan Anderson]

Hi,

From what I remember as a teen that is correct. The sign in the first
photo was put in much later than the second photo. The second sign was
made some time after the old Reynella Bypass section opened.

Regards,
Tristan.

[B.J. Winzer]

There's one close to me here. Fortunately I know the link for it on
Viseth's site:

http://mrv.ozroads.com.au/metro/13/pics/IMG_0112.JPG

I call this bit of Surrey Rd the "road to nowhere".

BRICKS

[Alex Csar]

I suspect that one was a blunder: while Doncaster and Heidelberg are rightly bracketed, Warrandyte is reached via a continuation of SR13 (which terminates just shy of the official border of said suburb) and thus should lose the brackets. Methinks someone got a little carried away.

Cheers,
Alex.

[B.J. Winzer]

Yeah, Doncaster and Heidelberg are both via MR40.  I guess the logic is that Warrandyte is via MR42, but what you say should override that: it's the general direction of travel, like signs on Harris Gully Rd, Warrandyte having Frankston as an unbracketed focal (via Springvale Rd), or Elgar Rd, Box Hill having Mentone as a focal (via Warrigal Rd).

Have attached a simpler replacement.  I used Google Maps to measure the distance and it appears the signed distance to Warrandyte is incorrect.
(Also did a mock with Templestowe in brackets but haven't attached it - really need Visio here at home...)

[Viseth]

I don't think Doncaster and Warrandyte should be left out and replaced
by Doncaster East - those two are far more prominent. I'm aware that
Doncaster East is a focal point along MR52 Reynolds Rd, however I
would have used Templestowe or Heidelberg instead - keeping in mind
that Reynolds Rd is the western leg of the 'Northern Arterial' route
between Templestowe and Croydon North.

Viseth

On Jul 25, 3:03 pm, "B.J. Winzer" <sarcophagu...@iprimus.com.au>
wrote:

> Yeah, Doncaster and Heidelberg are both via MR40.  I guess the logic is
> that Warrandyte is via MR42, but what you say should override that: it's
> the general direction of travel, like signs on Harris Gully Rd,
> Warrandyte having Frankston as an unbracketed focal (via Springvale Rd),
> or Elgar Rd, Box Hill having Mentone as a focal (via Warrigal Rd).
>
> Have attached a simpler replacement.  I used Google Maps to measure the
> distance and it appears the signed distance to Warrandyte is incorrect.
> (Also did a mock with Templestowe in brackets but haven't attached it -
> really need Visio here at home...)
>
> Alex Csar wrote:
> > I suspect that one was a blunder: while Doncaster and Heidelberg are
> > rightly bracketed, Warrandyte is reached via a continuation of SR13
> > (which terminates just shy of the official border of said suburb) and
> > thus should lose the brackets. Methinks someone got a little carried away.
>
> > Cheers,
> > Alex.
>
> > On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 7:08 PM, B.J. Winzer

> > <sarcophagu...@iprimus.com.au <mailto:sarcophagu...@iprimus.com.au>>

> > wrote:
>
> >     There's one close to me here.  Fortunately I know the link for it on
> >     Viseth's site:
>
> >    http://mrv.ozroads.com.au/metro/13/pics/IMG_0112.JPG
>
> >     I call this bit of Surrey Rd the "road to nowhere".
>
> >     BRICKS
>
> >     Michael Greenslade wrote:
> >     > Further to the other discussion regarding the use of
> >     parenthesis, has
> >     > anyone seen a distance sign dominated with destinations in
> >     > parenthesis. Im thinking probably in SA, Victoria or Tasmania where
> >     > these rules have been followed with some level of competence.
>
>
>

>  MR13 Surrey.png
> 11KViewDownload

[B.J. Winzer]

I don't think prominence is the issue.  Doncaster East on that route is the most DIRECT location to head to.  Doncaster proper is a significant detour.

And I didn't leave Warrandyte out?

[Viseth]

Sorry, I meant Heidelberg.

Direct or otherwise is irrelevant. It's about showing the most
logical, principal destinations a typical motorist would go to (the
concept of 'principal activity centres' comes to play). However, D
East could still be included if desired as four is the maximum number
of destinations that can be shown for arterial roads.

Viseth

On Jul 26, 8:06 pm, "B.J. Winzer" <sarcophagu...@iprimus.com.au>

[B.J. Winzer]

Which makes no sense if you actually look at the map - by that logic, you would put Alice Springs as a focal point on the Calder Hwy.

[Viseth]

A little bit of exaggeration don't you think?

That's why we have parenthesis - to show they are off the route. It
also requires correct, clear signage further on to direct the motorist
to that bracketed destination. The problem lies with the second
sentence - not with this type of destination display.

Viseth

On Jul 26, 9:16 pm, "B.J. Winzer" <sarcophagu...@iprimus.com.au>