Jelena Dokic on ABC noon news
Natalie
have said "Pull your head in Dad, you're being a dickhead". Now she
won't even do the Australian Open. Not that I care, I think the opinion
in general seems to be "Piss off Jelena we don't want ya here".
I just wonder how much government funding she got? Seeing that the
current government is so into "mutual obligation" I think sports funding
should be seen like HECS, when you start making money from your sport
you pay it back. Simple.
Natalie
frgn8r
> I just wonder how much government funding she got? Seeing that the
> current government is so into "mutual obligation" I think sports funding
> should be seen like HECS, when you start making money from your sport
> you pay it back. Simple.
>
> Natalie
What an excellent idea - I wish I had said it... oh wait, I did! ;)
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=+sport+OR+money+group:aus.tv+author:frgn8r
&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&selm=1028184697.805858%40gateway&rnum=8
Sky Rider
row, rowed his boat - then wrote :
>My god she's an ungrateful little cow. Any decent Australian kid would
>have said "Pull your head in Dad, you're being a dickhead". Now she
>won't even do the Australian Open. Not that I care, I think the opinion
>in general seems to be "Piss off Jelena we don't want ya here".
be fair now.... how would she be able to concentrate on playing with a
continuing chorus of boos.... ??
>I just wonder how much government funding she got? Seeing that the
>current government is so into "mutual obligation" I think sports funding
>should be seen like HECS, when you start making money from your sport
>you pay it back. Simple.
I think someone ought to go slap her father with a wet fish!
--
SkyRider
**********
Visit the Online Dictionary of Playground Slang
and leave your favourites-: http://www.odps.cyberscriber.com
**********
Perc
"Sky Rider" <OD...@cyberscriber.com> wrote in message
news:hdslmusk28pf53kfq...@4ax.com...
: On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 12:32:34 +1000, Natalie <star...@savtek.net> row,
: row, rowed his boat - then wrote :
:
: >My god she's an ungrateful little cow. Any decent Australian kid would
: >have said "Pull your head in Dad, you're being a dickhead". Now she
: >won't even do the Australian Open. Not that I care, I think the opinion
: >in general seems to be "Piss off Jelena we don't want ya here".
:
: be fair now.... how would she be able to concentrate on playing with a
: continuing chorus of boos.... ??
:
: >I just wonder how much government funding she got? Seeing that the
: >current government is so into "mutual obligation" I think sports funding
: >should be seen like HECS, when you start making money from your sport
: >you pay it back. Simple.
:
: I think someone ought to go slap her father with a wet fish!
: --
Make sure it's a 40 kilo Tuna.
Perc
: SkyRider
frgn8r
> That sort of psychological warfare would probably make her perform
> poorly anyway, so what's the point of coming.
To participate in a Grand Slam event
To promote her sponsors via television coverage
To earn prize money
To enhance her skills
To improve her world ranking
To play sport rather than politics
To demonstrate her emotional maturity
To compete rather than observe
To prove she can play competent tennis despite the fact that she is not
liked by the crowd, something that other athletes, such as John McEnroe,
have done...
...and, most importantly, so I can laugh at her.
Phoney McRingring
Sky Rider wrote:
>> Not that I care, I think the opinion
>>in general seems to be "Piss off Jelena we don't want ya here".
> be fair now.... how would she be able to concentrate on playing with a
> continuing chorus of boos.... ??
Like the Australian David Cup team in Spain a few years ago?
> I think someone ought to go slap her father with a wet fish!
He tried to slap himself with one, but complained about the price.
--
Mike Brown
--
Joe Frazier: Homer, I know how you feel. You lost the couch. I lost the
heavyweight
championship.
Homer: Heavyweight championship? There's like three of those.
"Brother, Can You Spare Two Dimes?", The Simpsons
--
Sky Rider
row, rowed his boat - then wrote :
>
>> That sort of psychological warfare would probably make her perform
>> poorly anyway, so what's the point of coming.
>
>To participate in a Grand Slam event
<snigger>
>To promote her sponsors via television coverage
<snigger>
>To earn prize money
<snigger>
>To enhance her skills
<snigger>
>To improve her world ranking
<snigger>
>To play sport rather than politics
<snigger>
>To demonstrate her emotional maturity
<snigger>
>To compete rather than observe
<snigger>
>To prove she can play competent tennis despite the fact that she is not
>liked by the crowd, something that other athletes, such as John McEnroe,
>have done...
<snigger>
>...and, most importantly, so I can laugh at her.
<snigger>
..... and of she does have large nipples.... the one on her face is
particularly interesting!
--
frgn8r
"Here's a quarter, why don't you go downtown and have a rat gnaw that thing
off your face."
thePirhana
> On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 12:32:34 +1000, Natalie <star...@savtek.net> row,
> row, rowed his boat - then wrote :
>
> >My god she's an ungrateful little cow. Any decent Australian kid would
>
> I think someone ought to go slap her father with a wet fish!
>
>
Actually, I think that someone ought to slap her, on the bare bottom..... a
nice spanking.
Hmmmmmm
I'll volunteer for that one.
P
Buck
non-australian accent now? Before she spoke without any
detectable accent, but on the news, I picked it up quite
clearly. Strange.
Sky Rider
row, rowed his boat - then wrote :
>> My god she's an ungrateful little cow. Any decent Australian kid would
>> have said "Pull your head in Dad, you're being a dickhead". Now she
>> won't even do the Australian Open. Not that I care, I think the opinion
>> in general seems to be "Piss off Jelena we don't want ya here".
>> I just wonder how much government funding she got? Seeing that the
>> current government is so into "mutual obligation" I think sports funding
>> should be seen like HECS, when you start making money from your sport
>> you pay it back. Simple.
>Was it my imagination or did Jelena have a recognisable
>non-australian accent now? Before she spoke without any
>detectable accent, but on the news, I picked it up quite
>clearly. Strange.
it's got very merkin lately... too much time on the international
circuit probly?
Mitch Gibbs
> circuit probly?
> --
>
> SkyRider
I heard that they've gone back to Yugo...
Mitch
Mitch Gibbs
>
> >
> > ..... and of she does have large nipples.... the one on her face is
> > particularly interesting!
>
> "Here's a quarter, why don't you go downtown and have a rat gnaw that
thing
> off your face."
>
Hehe...I'll pay that.... nearly the best line in the movie - mine was "get
in your mouse and get outa here!";-)
Mitch
Natalie
>
>
> What an excellent idea - I wish I had said it... oh wait, I did! ;)
I wasn't here! ;) I heard something like it on The Panel or something
similar a while back and it really struck a chord with me. The
government (especially this one!) is so into people "paying" for their
benefits, "paying" for their education, why not let sportspeople pay for
the shitloads of funding they get and don't ever have to pay back? It's
a bit hypocritical to get some unemployed person getting a measley $10k
a year to do x amount in order to get that money when little Johnny
would happily bend over to write a cheque for Ian Thorpe or whoever if
they said they "needed" 50k to train for the Olympics.
I don't begrudge them the funding by any means, but let's have a "level
playing field" so to speak.
Natalie
BCTA
Sky Rider wrote:
>
> On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 12:32:34 +1000, Natalie <star...@savtek.net> row,
> row, rowed his boat - then wrote :
>
> >My god she's an ungrateful little cow. Any decent Australian kid would
> >have said "Pull your head in Dad, you're being a dickhead". Now she
> >won't even do the Australian Open. Not that I care, I think the opinion
> >in general seems to be "Piss off Jelena we don't want ya here".
>
> I think someone ought to go slap her father with a wet fish!
Repeatedly.
Cheers,
Jocko
frgn8r
"Mitch Gibbs" <mgi...@mail.newcastle.edu.au> wrote in message
news:akgsun$3me$1...@seagoon.newcastle.edu.au...
LOL - great flick... and both quotes rodent related... hmmm....
"Have you got good plumbing? You look like you'd have good plumbing. It's
just that I've just been eating a lot cheese lately - I'm like a big mouse."
frgn8r
"Natalie" <star...@savtek.net> wrote in message
news:3D6C09D0...@savtek.net...
I put it down the 'cosmic consciousness' - no ideas are original (my dad
told me that).
What I can't believe is someone like Thorpies pulls in $millions - and for
what? Swimming. What does 'not drowning' really contribute to the
community that has financed him to get where he is?
Luke Webber
> I heard that they've gone back to Yugo...
They did go back to Serbia, but then Damir spat the dummy because they
wouldn't let him erect a sports complex or something in downtown Belgrade.
Last I heard they'd gone off to London until their untra-nationalist party
wins power in Serbia. Nice people.
Luke
Merops of Cos
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike. A hollow
voice says Ian Galbraith <igalb...@ozonline.com.au>
> On Wed, 28 Aug 2002 09:06:33 +0800, "frgn8r" <no...@all.thanks> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >What I can't believe is someone like Thorpies pulls in $millions - and for
> >what? Swimming. What does 'not drowning' really contribute to the
> >community that has financed him to get where he is?
>
> If you want to put it that way what does any sport contribute? A sense
> of self worth, achievement, a satisfaction of the competitive spirit
> etc etc. We seem to have a psychological need for heroes, read The
> Hero With A Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell for an examination of
> heroic myths and the psychological basis for them.
>
>
True, though that doesn't answer why he ought to be paid
millions for it (and don't anyone answer "demand & supply"
as though the market were inherently rational.... witness
low paid teachers and nurses, and highly paid advertising
execs)
Thorpie pulls in megabucks for the same reason Britney,
The Spice Girls, Arnie all pull in megabucks... income
and contribution to society are not related in any
way whatsoever.
--
Please remove nospam to reply.
Ian Galbraith
[snip]
>What I can't believe is someone like Thorpies pulls in $millions - and for
>what? Swimming. What does 'not drowning' really contribute to the
>community that has financed him to get where he is?
If you want to put it that way what does any sport contribute? A sense
damnfine
> Thorpie pulls in megabucks for the same reason Britney,
> The Spice Girls, Arnie all pull in megabucks... income
> and contribution to society are not related in any
> way whatsoever.
I don't think you've proved that at all. Britney, The Spice Girls and Arnie
have all made huge "contributions to soceity". I don't see why a contribution
need necessarily be positive in your or my opinion to count.
--
/^\damnfine/^\
"And the people did feast upon the lambs and
sloths, and carp and anchovies, and orangutans
and breakfast cereals, and fruit-bats and large chu..."
Sponky
> Merops of Cos wrote:
> > Thorpie pulls in megabucks for the same reason Britney,
> > The Spice Girls, Arnie all pull in megabucks... income
> > and contribution to society are not related in any
> > way whatsoever.
>
> I don't think you've proved that at all. Britney, The Spice Girls and Arnie
> have all made huge "contributions to soceity". I don't see why a contribution
> need necessarily be positive in your or my opinion to count.
BWAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! nicely put.
==============================
Sponky
frgn8r
"damnfine" <damn...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:akhu0k$1iui78$1...@ID-138038.news.dfncis.de...
> Merops of Cos wrote:
> > Thorpie pulls in megabucks for the same reason Britney,
> > The Spice Girls, Arnie all pull in megabucks... income
> > and contribution to society are not related in any
> > way whatsoever.
>
> I don't think you've proved that at all. Britney, The Spice Girls and
Arnie
> have all made huge "contributions to soceity". I don't see why a
contribution
> need necessarily be positive in your or my opinion to count.
But their endeavours are not being financed by the efforts of tax payers,
via things like the AIS, the Olympic team, etc
pharro
"Merops of Cos" <mer...@nospam.mail.com> wrote in message
news:q5fzwz5...@rabbit.asiapacific.cpqcorp.net...
>
> You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike. A hollow
> voice says Ian Galbraith <igalb...@ozonline.com.au>
>
> > On Wed, 28 Aug 2002 09:06:33 +0800, "frgn8r" <no...@all.thanks> wrote:
> >
> > [snip]
> >
> > >What I can't believe is someone like Thorpies pulls in $millions - and
for
> > >what? Swimming. What does 'not drowning' really contribute to the
> > >community that has financed him to get where he is?
> >
> > If you want to put it that way what does any sport contribute? A sense
> > of self worth, achievement, a satisfaction of the competitive spirit
> > etc etc. We seem to have a psychological need for heroes, read The
> > Hero With A Thousand Faces by Joseph Campbell for an examination of
> > heroic myths and the psychological basis for them.
> >
> >
>
> True, though that doesn't answer why he ought to be paid
> millions for it (and don't anyone answer "demand & supply"
> as though the market were inherently rational.... witness
> low paid teachers and nurses, and highly paid advertising
> execs)
>
You seem to have a talent for presenting an argument and proving the
opposite. Advertising Executives are a particularly good example of market
forces rationally determining value. Who creates more pure fiscal wealth -
an ad man or a teacher?
> Thorpie pulls in megabucks for the same reason Britney,
> The Spice Girls, Arnie all pull in megabucks... income
> and contribution to society are not related in any
> way whatsoever.
>
>
So would you prefer to see the wealth generated by these people retained by
promoters and distributors? They earn exactly what the market can afford to
pay them.
pharro
Sky Rider
<drwho...@yahoo.com.au> row, row, rowed his boat - then wrote :
>On Tue, 27 Aug 2002 22:16:36 +1000, Sky Rider <OD...@cyberscriber.com>
>wrote:
>>it's got very merkin lately... too much time on the international
>>circuit probly?
>She is still hot
>who cares how she sounds when she speaks :)
hot??
christ your taste is slipping!
Gargoyle #5
> On Wed, 28 Aug 2002 09:06:33 +0800, "frgn8r" <no...@all.thanks> wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> >What I can't believe is someone like Thorpies pulls in $millions - and
for
> >what? Swimming. What does 'not drowning' really contribute to the
> >community that has financed him to get where he is?
>
> If you want to put it that way what does any sport contribute? A sense
> of self worth, achievement, a satisfaction of the competitive spirit
> etc etc. We seem to have a psychological need for heroes
They are doing fuck all for me.
Don't get me wrong, I'm sure many of them are nice people but so are many
other deserving people who get nothing.
In their role as Ambassadors Of Australia, they are a bunch of elite circus
performers who had the good fortune to be born with certain freakish
abnormalities. They often have useful obsessive / compulsive personality
traits which help drive them relentlessly through their training. Their
activities entrench a kind of competitive, win at all costs, us against
them, nationalism throughout the fabric of our society. Their efforts serve
as pretend wars between countries, highlighting the differences between
races, regimes and social theories, and ranking them in order of superiority
and value.
All this is done behind the cynical facade of pursuing world peace, harmony,
co-operation, understanding and the "health" of our youth.
The individual winners get rich and famous while pretending they are "doing
it for their people" and the losers get nothing. They aren't doing it for us
and we aren't better off if they win gold. Our government is spending our
tax dollars for votes because it makes us feel bad if we see our country
losing out on TV, and it's thought that somehow that translates to punishing
the incumbents at election time.
The idea that sportsmanship is some honourable ideal is now almost devoid of
any shred of justification or historical residue.
Supposedly it's about national and personal friendship, doing your best and
rejoicing in each others skills and athletic prowess. Yet we measure it down
to the hundredth of a second and wear special tricky suits merely to gain a
tiny relative advantage. So that we might steal a march upon our enemies So
that we might appear better than we really are.
If I recall my ancient Greek correctly, back in the real old days before
organised games, the heroes from the various lands used to gather yearly for
feasting and physical games. These were literally "games", played for the
enjoyment of the playing, and this yearly ritual was seen as fulfilling an
important role in keeping the various states on friendly speaking terms - as
a relaxed circuit breaker, rather than the climax of tension these games
produce today.
Back then it was considered dishonourable (read cheating) to even train
before the games because it wasn't supposed to be about opposing or battling
each other. It was a display and a celebration of the /natural/ abilities
which were given to us by the gods. Those who participated were already
acknowledged to be champions anyway. It's obscene the way the modern "games"
machines crassly exploit those ideals whilst adopting a noble posture ...
and claiming to be representing me.
They are doing fuck all for me.
Gargoyle (lets play war)
Gargoyle #5
>
> > poorly anyway, so what's the point of coming.
>
> To participate in a Grand Slam event
> To promote her sponsors via television coverage
> To earn prize money
> To enhance her skills
> To improve her world ranking
Holy shit, those are some pretty good reasons aren't they?
She must really be intimidated by us to forego all that.
And now she must really regret the effect that having her father and growing
up in Australia has had on her tennis.
Maybe if she paid back the Australian government all the money they spent on
her tennis training, the media would treat her differently. If only her
father had died young and the family had gone to a different country, her
life would have been less of a misery, but as a professional those are the
crosses she has to bear.
> ...and, most importantly, so I can laugh at her
Gargoyle (that young girl has said some immature things)
Ian Galbraith
wrote:
>"Ian Galbraith" <igalb...@ozonline.com.au> wrote in message
[snip]
>> If you want to put it that way what does any sport contribute? A sense
>> of self worth, achievement, a satisfaction of the competitive spirit
>> etc etc. We seem to have a psychological need for heroes
>They are doing fuck all for me.
Well you're unusual :-).
>Don't get me wrong, I'm sure many of them are nice people but so are many
>other deserving people who get nothing.
Money is not the root of happiness.
>In their role as Ambassadors Of Australia, they are a bunch of elite circus
>performers who had the good fortune to be born with certain freakish
>abnormalities. They often have useful obsessive / compulsive personality
>traits which help drive them relentlessly through their training. Their
>activities entrench a kind of competitive, win at all costs, us against
>them, nationalism throughout the fabric of our society. Their efforts serve
>as pretend wars between countries, highlighting the differences between
>races, regimes and social theories, and ranking them in order of superiority
>and value.
Exactly, and why do you think that is? Because we have an innate
competitive spirit that needs to be satisfied one way or the other.
You talk about it like its a bad thing but what would happen if we
didn't satisfy that urge through sport?
>All this is done behind the cynical facade of pursuing world peace, harmony,
>co-operation, understanding and the "health" of our youth.
>The individual winners get rich and famous while pretending they are "doing
>it for their people" and the losers get nothing. They aren't doing it for us
>and we aren't better off if they win gold. Our government is spending our
>tax dollars for votes because it makes us feel bad if we see our country
>losing out on TV, and it's thought that somehow that translates to punishing
>the incumbents at election time.
You've got it in one, "it makes us feel bad if we see our country
losing". You may not but you're obviously not representative of the
population as a whole. Why is it so bad that we feel good about
ourselves? I would think it translates to other areas of our lives
giving us more confidence in general.
>The idea that sportsmanship is some honourable ideal is now almost devoid of
>any shred of justification or historical residue.
There you may have a point, and personally I think there's too much
money going to sportsmen, but that doesn't change the how sport
affects society as a whole.
>Supposedly it's about national and personal friendship, doing your best and
>rejoicing in each others skills and athletic prowess. Yet we measure it down
>to the hundredth of a second and wear special tricky suits merely to gain a
>tiny relative advantage. So that we might steal a march upon our enemies So
>that we might appear better than we really are.
>If I recall my ancient Greek correctly, back in the real old days before
>organised games, the heroes from the various lands used to gather yearly for
>feasting and physical games. These were literally "games", played for the
>enjoyment of the playing, and this yearly ritual was seen as fulfilling an
>important role in keeping the various states on friendly speaking terms - as
>a relaxed circuit breaker, rather than the climax of tension these games
>produce today.
But that doesn't satisfy the competitive urge, it just represses it.
[snip]
Buck
planet. Not just in terms of looks but in terms of
her skills and composer on court. A pity her lunatic
dad keeps shedding a bad light on her every time
she has to defend him.
Buck
Gargoyle #5
> >> of self worth, achievement, a satisfaction of the competitive spirit
> >> etc etc. We seem to have a psychological need for heroes
> >Don't get me wrong, I'm sure many of them are nice people but so are many
> >other deserving people who get nothing.
>
> Money is not the root of happiness.
Tell that to a homeless person.
I've been a hungry and homeless street kid relying on a welfare group for
food and let me tell you, news of someone getting a gold medal would not
have made me happy (quite the contrary in fact). Or got me a root for that
matter. Nor would it have improved the country. I would have happily sold my
own gold medal for a ham sandwich ... but I wasn't in a government funded
elite athlete's programme.
I've got nothing against sportspeople or the idea of competitive sport. I
love it. But we only have so much tax money, therefore it's a question of
priorities.
I think welfare is more important than false national pride. A lot more.
> >Their efforts serve
> >as pretend wars between countries, highlighting the differences between
> >races, regimes and social theories, and ranking them in order of
superiority
> >and value.
>
> Exactly, and why do you think that is? Because we have an innate
> competitive spirit that needs to be satisfied one way or the other.
> You talk about it like its a bad thing but what would happen if we
> didn't satisfy that urge through sport?
So tell me, what would happen? War? Riots in the streets? More murders?
You come from a Rugby Union school don't you? (OK that was just mean)
> >They aren't doing it for us
> >and we aren't better off if they win gold. Our government is spending our
> >tax dollars for votes because it makes us feel bad if we see our country
> >losing out on TV, and it's thought that somehow that translates to
punishing
> >the incumbents at election time.
>
> You've got it in one, "it makes us feel bad if we see our country
> losing". You may not but you're obviously not representative of the
> population as a whole. Why is it so bad that we feel good about
> ourselves? I would think it translates to other areas of our lives
> giving us more confidence in general.
I didn't say it's bad to feel good about ourselves did I? If you need to see
someone you don't know being given a badge on TV to give you more
confidence, then you are in need of much more than just that.
Think about it ... you are saying that you personally and society in general
is not only reliant on X for confidence and to feel good about itself, but
actually reliant on it to relieve tension which would otherwise manifest
itself as internal violence and external war.
Now here's the problem - you and society in general has absolutely no way of
knowing if any of the events you see on TV - international games in this
case - have any actual basis in reality. You don't even know if they really
happened. All you see is X. There is only an assumed difference between
coverage of the PANPACs and Neighbours, but they are all just patterns on
the TV screen in the end. You don't know if it's fiction or non fiction.
So, this X which you say we are so reliant on is not sporting superiority at
all. It's an intangible representation of something else which may not
necessarily even exist. Sure it has some effect on us, but not that much.
It's not guns or butter. It's not even self worth. It's just a fucking soap
opera on TV.
> >The idea that sportsmanship is some honourable ideal is now almost devoid
of
> >any shred of justification or historical residue.
>
> There you may have a point, and personally I think there's too much
> money going to sportsmen, but that doesn't change the how sport
> affects society as a whole.
Of course it does.
Putting something up on a pedestal is what puts it up on a pedestal.
> >If I recall my ancient Greek correctly, back in the real old days before
> >organised games, the heroes from the various lands used to gather yearly
for
> >feasting and physical games. These were literally "games", played for the
> >enjoyment of the playing, and this yearly ritual was seen as fulfilling
an
> >important role in keeping the various states on friendly speaking terms -
as
> >a relaxed circuit breaker, rather than the climax of tension these games
> >produce today.
>
> But that doesn't satisfy the competitive urge, it just represses it.
Peace does not repress war.
Gargoyle (good morning Truman!)
Edy Syquer
>
> What I can't believe is someone like Thorpies pulls in $millions - and for
> what? Swimming. What does 'not drowning' really contribute to the
> community that has financed him to get where he is?
Edy's said it before and he'll say it again...
IAN THORPE... Amuses himself by swimming back and forth in a pool,
gets fame, fortune and hero status
SURF LIFESAVERS... Risk their lives to save those of others, get paid
nothing, get no recognition
And who said we got our priorities wrong?
Ian Galbraith
wrote:
>"Ian Galbraith" <igalb...@ozonline.com.au> wrote in message
>> On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 05:31:06 +1000, "Gargoyle #5"
[snip]
>> Money is not the root of happiness.
>Tell that to a homeless person.
Strawman.
>I've been a hungry and homeless street kid relying on a welfare group for
>food and let me tell you, news of someone getting a gold medal would not
>have made me happy (quite the contrary in fact). Or got me a root for that
>matter. Nor would it have improved the country. I would have happily sold my
>own gold medal for a ham sandwich ... but I wasn't in a government funded
>elite athlete's programme.
What a pity you don't apply such empathy to the asylum seeker
situation.
>I've got nothing against sportspeople or the idea of competitive sport. I
>love it. But we only have so much tax money, therefore it's a question of
>priorities.
>I think welfare is more important than false national pride. A lot more.
Where do Thorpe's millions come from? Not tax dollars.
[snip]
>> Exactly, and why do you think that is? Because we have an innate
>> competitive spirit that needs to be satisfied one way or the other.
>> You talk about it like its a bad thing but what would happen if we
>> didn't satisfy that urge through sport?
>So tell me, what would happen? War? Riots in the streets? More murders?
Increased wars certainly.
>You come from a Rugby Union school don't you? (OK that was just mean)
Union isn't big in Melbourne.
>> >They aren't doing it for us
>> >and we aren't better off if they win gold. Our government is spending our
>> >tax dollars for votes because it makes us feel bad if we see our country
>> >losing out on TV, and it's thought that somehow that translates to
>punishing
>> >the incumbents at election time.
>> You've got it in one, "it makes us feel bad if we see our country
>> losing". You may not but you're obviously not representative of the
>> population as a whole. Why is it so bad that we feel good about
>> ourselves? I would think it translates to other areas of our lives
>> giving us more confidence in general.
>I didn't say it's bad to feel good about ourselves did I? If you need to see
>someone you don't know being given a badge on TV to give you more
>confidence, then you are in need of much more than just that.
Its an innate human characteristic, and therefore probably not
psychologically harmful.
>Think about it ... you are saying that you personally and society in general
>is not only reliant on X for confidence and to feel good about itself, but
>actually reliant on it to relieve tension which would otherwise manifest
>itself as internal violence and external war.
No I'm not actually. I never said society was totally reliant.
>Now here's the problem - you and society in general has absolutely no way of
>knowing if any of the events you see on TV - international games in this
>case - have any actual basis in reality. You don't even know if they really
>happened. All you see is X. There is only an assumed difference between
>coverage of the PANPACs and Neighbours, but they are all just patterns on
>the TV screen in the end. You don't know if it's fiction or non fiction.
Oh come on. Thats irrelevant, we identify with heroes in movies that
we know are fiction.
>So, this X which you say we are so reliant on is not sporting superiority at
>all. It's an intangible representation of something else which may not
>necessarily even exist. Sure it has some effect on us, but not that much.
>It's not guns or butter. It's not even self worth. It's just a fucking soap
>opera on TV.
You yourself said "Their efforts serve as pretend wars between
countries, highlighting the differences between races, regimes and
social theories, and ranking them in order of superiority and value."
That implies some importance placed on it. You may not like it but
thats a different thing.
>> >The idea that sportsmanship is some honourable ideal is now almost devoid
>> >of any shred of justification or historical residue.
>> There you may have a point, and personally I think there's too much
>> money going to sportsmen, but that doesn't change the how sport
>> affects society as a whole.
>Of course it does.
>Putting something up on a pedestal is what puts it up on a pedestal.
It doesn't because we were talking about the general function sport
serves in modern society.
>> >If I recall my ancient Greek correctly, back in the real old days before
>> >organised games, the heroes from the various lands used to gather yearly
>for
>> >feasting and physical games. These were literally "games", played for the
>> >enjoyment of the playing, and this yearly ritual was seen as fulfilling
>an
>> >important role in keeping the various states on friendly speaking terms -
>as
>> >a relaxed circuit breaker, rather than the climax of tension these games
>> >produce today.
>> But that doesn't satisfy the competitive urge, it just represses it.
>Peace does not repress war.
Another strawman.
Gargoyle #5
> >> On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 05:31:06 +1000, "Gargoyle #5"
> [snip]
>
> >> Money is not the root of happiness.
> >Tell that to a homeless person.
>
> Strawman.
I have no idea what that means, but I get the impression that it stands in
place of a detailed rebuttal which would so obviously and completely defeat
my argument, that it need not even be expressed.
> >I've been a hungry and homeless street kid relying on a welfare group for
> >food and let me tell you, news of someone getting a gold medal would not
> >have made me happy (quite the contrary in fact). Or got me a root for
that
> >matter. Nor would it have improved the country. I would have happily sold
my
> >own gold medal for a ham sandwich ... but I wasn't in a government funded
> >elite athlete's programme.
>
> What a pity you don't apply such empathy to the asylum seeker
> situation.
References?
If you actually check, I believe you will find zero posts where I advocate
turning refugees away, and at least four where I say we should have taken in
all the boat people. Two posts explain that I believe we should take /all/
refugees, period - estimated (by me) at 30 million since Vietnam. You keep
assuming that because I think the ABC is biased, I am some kind of a right
wing fascist, and you use this categorisation to conveniently dismiss my
arguments out of hand.
And sure I think the Tampa should have steamed another 3 hours to offload
the refugees safely at the large mainland Indonesian port, instead of
turning around and going for a further day or so towards Christmas Island,
which hardly had any infrastructure and didn't even have have a port deep
enough for the ship to approach the shore. And I'm critical of the refusal
by Indonesia to take the refugees in. So sue me.
It's got stuff all to do with tax payer funded elite athlete's programmes.
> >I've got nothing against sportspeople or the idea of competitive sport. I
> >love it. But we only have so much tax money, therefore it's a question of
> >priorities.
>
> >I think welfare is more important than false national pride. A lot more.
>
> Where do Thorpe's millions come from? Not tax dollars.
It's clear that it's only the tax dollars I'm questioning.
> >> Exactly, and why do you think that is? Because we have an innate
> >> competitive spirit that needs to be satisfied one way or the other.
> >> You talk about it like its a bad thing but what would happen if we
> >> didn't satisfy that urge through sport?
>
> >So tell me, what would happen? War? Riots in the streets? More murders?
>
> Increased wars certainly.
Oh come off it! It's got to be insignificant. OK if we cut tax dollars to
elite sports by 90% how much would that increase our wars?
BTW I just saw on the news that Australia didn't get more gold medals than
America after all. In fact we only ended up with about half as many as
America. By your logic the expenditure of all those tax dollars actually
made the country worse off now than if we'd burned the money and not used it
to raise expectations in the first place.
I just don't believe our national psyche is that impressionable or needy.
You can't avoid that symmetry. If superiority means the spending of our tax
dollars was of significant benefit to our country, then inferiority means
the spending of our tax dollars was of significant harm to our country.
Now's the time to wheel out "it's not about winning and losing" or "everyone
was a winner" or "it's vital to win but it's OK to lose" or everyone gets a
lollipop anyway, or some such get out clause.
They have done fuck all for me or to me, just absorbed some taxes and
viewers.
Gargoyle (winners are grinners and losers can make their own arrangements)
David Barnett
: My god she's an ungrateful little cow. Any decent Australian kid would
: have said "Pull your head in Dad, you're being a dickhead". Now she
: won't even do the Australian Open. Not that I care, I think the opinion
: in general seems to be "Piss off Jelena we don't want ya here".
Apparently she is a very good tennis player but not a great one.
I can't see her ever beating Serena or Venus.
--
David Barnett
Dr Was
"you can't outrun Death forever, but you can make the Bastard work for it"
Andromeda: Lava & Rockets
Natalie
that outfit Venus/Serena was wearing?? YUCKO. If you've got a big arse,
don't wear clothes that tell the world you've got a big arse!
Natalie
Ian Galbraith
wrote:
>"Ian Galbraith" <igalb...@ozonline.com.au> wrote in message
>> On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 12:40:42 +1000, "Gargoyle #5" <re...@news.group>
>> >> Money is not the root of happiness.
>> >Tell that to a homeless person.
>> Strawman.
>I have no idea what that means, but I get the impression that it stands in
>place of a detailed rebuttal which would so obviously and completely defeat
>my argument, that it need not even be expressed.
From the talk.origins faq found on the web: "Stating a misrepresented
version of an opponent's argument for the purpose of having an easier
target to knock down. A common, but deprecated, mode of argument."
I guess its not exactly what you were doing but you gave a response
that was unarguable but doesn't refute my point.
[snip]
>> What a pity you don't apply such empathy to the asylum seeker
>> situation.
>References?
>If you actually check, I believe you will find zero posts where I advocate
>turning refugees away, and at least four where I say we should have taken in
>all the boat people. Two posts explain that I believe we should take /all/
>refugees, period - estimated (by me) at 30 million since Vietnam. You keep
>assuming that because I think the ABC is biased, I am some kind of a right
>wing fascist, and you use this categorisation to conveniently dismiss my
>arguments out of hand.
If thats the case I apologise unreservedly, I've obviously confused
you with somebody else.
[snip]
>> Where do Thorpe's millions come from? Not tax dollars.
>It's clear that it's only the tax dollars I'm questioning.
I think we may be talking at cross purposes here, I'm arguing about
the general function sport serves in society. Perhpas we should just
leave it at that :-).
[snip]
Buck
Sky Rider
row, rowed his boat - then wrote :
>> Speaking of tennis (which most of you weren't anyway), did you check
>> that outfit Venus/Serena was wearing?? YUCKO. If you've got a big arse,
>> don't wear clothes that tell the world you've got a big arse!
>I think she's trying to convince the world she's really a man.
with a body like that?? No chance!
Bester
"Edy Syquer" <synchronis...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3593cba.02082...@posting.google.com...
Edy's said it well.
-Bester
Katharine S
It's just annoying for the non sports-mad people when it's the sporting
'heros' who get so much of the attention.
--
Katharine S.
Bronzed Bodies
>On Thu, 29 Aug 2002 05:31:06 +1000, "Gargoyle #5" <re...@news.group>
>wrote:
>
>>Back then it was considered dishonourable (read cheating) to even train
>>before the games because it wasn't supposed to be about opposing or battling
>>each other.
>
>Some of us still adhere to those ideals, you'll be please to note.
>
>I plan to compete at Athens, and I do not train at all.
Pedantry is now an Olympic event?
Bronzed Bodies
wrote:
>On Fri, 30 Aug 2002 10:22:50 GMT, Bronzed Bodies (Bronzed Bodies)
>wrote:
>
>>>>Back then it was considered dishonourable (read cheating) to even train
>>>>before the games because it wasn't supposed to be about opposing or battling
>>>>each other.
>>>
>>>Some of us still adhere to those ideals, you'll be please to note.
>>>
>>>I plan to compete at Athens, and I do not train at all.
>>
>>Pedantry is now an Olympic event?
>
>It will be a demonstration sport at Athens. If, as expected, it
>rates well with viewing audiences, it will become a regular part of
>the Olympics. They're clearing out a few other sports to make way
>for it.
Just as long as they get rid of athletics and swimming, I'll support
it.
Jason Stokes
> My god she's an ungrateful little cow. Any decent Australian kid would
> have said "Pull your head in Dad, you're being a dickhead". Now she
> won't even do the Australian Open. Not that I care, I think the opinion
> in general seems to be "Piss off Jelena we don't want ya here".
>
> I just wonder how much government funding she got? Seeing that the
> current government is so into "mutual obligation" I think sports funding
> should be seen like HECS, when you start making money from your sport
> you pay it back. Simple.
Fine. But then the Russian government should bill us for the cost
of training Tatiana Grigorieva, Irina Lashko, Costa Zhu....
Bester
"Jason Stokes" <js...@bluedog.apana.org.au> wrote in message
news:slrnan47r...@valis.local...
Well...bill the athletes, rather than us ordinary plebs.
Excellent point, nonetheless.
-Bester
Richard Cavell
> It will be a demonstration sport at Athens. If, as expected, it
> rates well with viewing audiences, it will become a regular part of
> the Olympics.
I don't mean to nitpick, but I think you mean 'Games of the 28th Olympiad'.