Man killed after climbing on top of moving train

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Wolfgang Wildeblood

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Feb 26, 2011, 10:58:02 PM2/26/11
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New South Wales Police and the State Government are urging people to
be sensible when using the Sydney rail network after a man who was
standing on top of a moving train was killed.

The 22-year-old New Zealand national was travelling with some friends
on a train to Windsor last night when he climbed onto the roof.

At some point he lost consciousness and was pulled back into the
carriage.

One of his friends performed CPR before paramedics arrived but he died
en route to hospital.

Police say the man suffered burns to his body and they are
investigating whether he was electrocuted by wires on top of the
train.

Police Minister Michael Daley says it is a tragic incident.

"Climbing on top of trains while they're moving is very dangerous.
[We] shouldn't need to tell people to be careful but unfortunately we
do," he said.

"We think of his family in this time."

Police spokeswoman Joanne Elliot says he should never have left the
carriage.

"[There are warnings] to not put any part of your body out of a train,
much less climb on top of a train, especially while it's moving," she
said.

A post mortem report will be prepared for the coroner.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2011/02/27/3150055.htm

Given that: "We think of his family in this time." My question is what
do we think of them?

I think they were hopeless parents, probably drunken layabouts, or
layabout drunkards, if their kid grew up to be that stupid.

How do yobs like that get onto the roof of a train anyway? I recall
travelling on a suburban train in Sydney once. I'm sure it had glass
in the windows. Are things that bad in the rustbelt states that your
government has done away with glass in train windows?

Dingo Bob

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Feb 26, 2011, 11:02:33 PM2/26/11
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On Feb 27, 2:58 pm, Wolfgang Wildeblood <wolfgangwildebl...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Given that: "We think of his family in this time." My question is what
> do we think of them?
>
> I think they were hopeless parents, probably drunken layabouts, or
> layabout drunkards, if their kid grew up to be that stupid.
>
> How do yobs like that get onto the roof of a train anyway? I recall
> travelling on a suburban train in Sydney once. I'm sure it had glass
> in the windows. Are things that bad in the rustbelt states that your
> government has done away with glass in train windows?

You're an idiot, just like the guy mentioned.

Sylvia Else

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Feb 26, 2011, 11:04:25 PM2/26/11
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On 27/02/2011 2:58 PM, Wolfgang Wildeblood wrote:

> How do yobs like that get onto the roof of a train anyway? I recall
> travelling on a suburban train in Sydney once. I'm sure it had glass
> in the windows. Are things that bad in the rustbelt states that your
> government has done away with glass in train windows?
>

Some trains are not airconditioned, and have small windows that slide
open to provide ventilation. It turns out they are large enough for a
determined yob to get through. One such actually tried to sue State Rail
over the resulting injuries, and appealed against the initial adverse
judgement. The appeal also failed.

http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/nsw/NSWCA/2002/354.html

Sylvia.

Wolfgang Wildeblood

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Feb 26, 2011, 11:25:34 PM2/26/11
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No, Coyote Bob, I'm not just like the guy mentioned at all, because:
- I have never climbed out the window of a train, and:
- I have never been electrocuted.

It seems you actually condone such stupidity?

Dingo Bob

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Feb 26, 2011, 11:48:24 PM2/26/11
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On Feb 27, 3:25 pm, Wolfgang Wildeblood <wolfgangwildebl...@gmail.com>

What I meant was that you were an idiot because you suggested his
actions were ultimately the responsibility of his parents and the way
they brought him up. I forgot that I had to explain things carefully
to idiots like you.

Wolfgang Wildeblood

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Feb 27, 2011, 12:57:00 AM2/27/11
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That's right. That's what I believe.

Despite electricity being extremely dangerous, and not part of the
natural environment - so humans have not evolved to avoid it - I have
managed to get through my whole life without being electrocuted. Not
even once. Most other people manage this feat, too. I attribute my
success to something called "common sense", and I attribute my common
sense to the fact my parents were not layabout drunkards.

My sister was an utterly, totally useless parent. And she married a
layabout drunkard. Coincidentally, one of their children was
electrocuted as a child (she survived). I attribute her failure to
something called "lack of common sense", and I attribute her lack of
common sense to the fact her mother was a useless, uninvolved parent
and her father was a drunkard.

So when I read of someone electrocuting themself in an incredibly
stupid way, and some fool of a politician says, "Think of the
parents," I think, "The parents were hopeless, probably drunks." There
you go. You think that makes me an idiot? Fair enough.

If I am, at least I'm a sober idiot. And despite my idiocy, I've
managed to resist the urge to climb out of train windows, and managed
to avoid electrocuting myself all these years, too.

Wolfgang Wildeblood

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Feb 27, 2011, 1:24:46 AM2/27/11
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> http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/nsw/NSWCA/2002/35...
>
> Sylvia.

Is it wrong to chuckle at that boy's misfortune?

"By the time of the accident, the plaintiff was accustomed to
disfiguring railway property with graffiti. He gave evidence that he
started writing graffiti on trains in about Year 8. He appears to have
regularly engaged in the activity and failed to attend much, if at
all, to his school studies from this time onwards. Initially, he used
`textas' to write on the inside of trains, but over time worked his
way outside where he used spray cans. He mostly wrote words, usually
one of his `tags'. He commonly wrote the word `Oops' and sometimes
`fork'.

Turning to the events of 6 May 1994, the trial judge said:

"it is apparent that the plaintiff, having boarded a train, manoeuvred
himself out of an upper window of the double decker carriage that did
not have the restraining rubber gasket and commenced to write the word
`oops' using a spray can. After the accident, the train was found to
have the two oo's' and part of the `p' completed on the roof. As he
was in the course of writing the word, and, while the train was
moving, the plaintiff's head contacted an object, probably a stanchion
or signal, beside the track, causing him severe injuries. The external
object which struck the plaintiff's head was never identified, but
there was blood found inside the carriage at the position of the
window.

Oops, indeed.

A Little Bit

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Feb 27, 2011, 1:54:11 AM2/27/11
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On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 21:57:00 -0800 (PST), Wolfgang Wildeblood
<wolfgangw...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Despite electricity being extremely dangerous, and not part of the
> natural environment - so humans have not evolved to avoid it - I have

What about lightning, it's natural. So are electric eels.

Wolfgang Wildeblood

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Feb 27, 2011, 2:46:52 AM2/27/11
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On Feb 27, 2:54 pm, A Little Bit <ti...@beerlover.com.au> wrote:

> On Sat, 26 Feb 2011 21:57:00 -0800 (PST),  Wolfgang Wildeblood
>

> <wolfgangwildebl...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Despite electricity being extremely dangerous, and not part of the
> > natural environment - so humans have not evolved to avoid it
>

> What about lightning, it's natural.  So are electric eels.

I swear it's true: they are the two examples that also occurred to me
as I was typing it. Electric eels I don't consider a threat, because
ALL eels are icky and to be avoided, whether electric or manual.

Kelpie

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Feb 27, 2011, 4:08:05 AM2/27/11
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"Wolfgang Wildeblood" <wolfgangw...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:067b6ccf-b868-41c6...@u24g2000prn.googlegroups.com...

Your talking to a dare devil here you know. Springy drives in bus lanes!


Sylvia Else

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Feb 27, 2011, 6:03:35 AM2/27/11
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On 27/02/2011 5:24 PM, Wolfgang Wildeblood wrote:
> On Feb 27, 12:04 pm, Sylvia Else<syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:
>
>> On 27/02/2011 2:58 PM, Wolfgang Wildeblood wrote:
>>
>>> How do yobs like that get onto the roof of a train anyway? I recall
>>> travelling on a suburban train in Sydney once. I'm sure it had glass
>>> in the windows. Are things that bad in the rustbelt states that your
>>> government has done away with glass in train windows?
>>
>> Some trains are not airconditioned, and have small windows that slide
>> open to provide ventilation. It turns out they are large enough for a
>> determined yob to get through. One such actually tried to sue State Rail
>> over the resulting injuries, and appealed against the initial adverse
>> judgement. The appeal also failed.
>>
>> http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/cases/nsw/NSWCA/2002/35...
>>
>> Sylvia.
>
> Is it wrong to chuckle at that boy's misfortune?

Well, I think chuckling is perhaps taking it a bit far. But having a
total lack of sympathy is par for the course.

I remain bemused by the idea that his legal representatives thought he
could win.

Sylvia.

Dingo Bob

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Feb 27, 2011, 6:06:57 AM2/27/11
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On Feb 27, 2:58 pm, Wolfgang Wildeblood <wolfgangwildebl...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> How do yobs like that get onto the roof of a train anyway?

Perhaps he was Indian.....

Wolfgang Wildeblood

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Feb 27, 2011, 9:02:15 PM2/27/11
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Oi! You snipped out where I quoted the specific humorous bit that made
me chuckle. And created an implication that I just generally chuckle
at other people's misfortune. That's very mischievous of you, Sylvia,
as nothing could be further from the truth. I'm a very compassionate
person - I even wanted to help you with your alcohol problem.

Wolfgang Wildeblood

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Feb 27, 2011, 9:02:57 PM2/27/11
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Perhaps you're a racist.

Brad

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Feb 27, 2011, 9:52:10 PM2/27/11
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On Feb 27, 4:57 pm, Wolfgang Wildeblood <wolfgangwildebl...@gmail.com>

I was going to mention at this point that I have been electrocuted
numerous times. Perhaps 'electrocuted' is the wrong word, 'shocked' is
more accurate. I work with many different voltages, fortunately many
are not in the lethal category, but the slightest slip or carelessness
can certainly brighten up my day. ;-)

Dingo Bob

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Feb 27, 2011, 10:26:05 PM2/27/11
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On Feb 28, 1:52 pm, Brad <goog...@vk2qq.com> wrote:

> I was going to mention at this point that I have been electrocuted
> numerous times. Perhaps 'electrocuted' is the wrong word, 'shocked' is
> more accurate. I work with many different voltages, fortunately many
> are not in the lethal category, but the slightest slip or carelessness
> can certainly brighten up my day. ;-)

Since electrocution means "death caused by electricity", you are
indeed wise to state that perhaps you are using the wrong word.

Wolfgang Wildeblood

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Feb 27, 2011, 10:36:35 PM2/27/11
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If you're ever tempted to try your luck helicopter surfing, I'm
willing to bet it will be the rotors that get you, rather than some
stray high voltage wiring.

My niece fried her fingertip off. She was young and still growing, and
I think it eventually grew back, but all through her childhood she had
one finger 1/2 inch shorter than the others.

Wolfgang Wildeblood

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Feb 27, 2011, 10:46:45 PM2/27/11
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So if the ambulance guys manage to resuscitate you, you haven't been
electrocuted? So one could be electrocuted, then de-electrocuted?

Sylvia Else

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Feb 27, 2011, 11:05:07 PM2/27/11
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See, now you've got me started. Electrocution means dying as a result of
an electric shock. But according to the media, there are many people
alive today who've died, but then been revived. So, apparently dying
does not necessarily result in a permanent death, and presumably one can
be electrocuted but then recover.

And don't even mention that complete fraud Jesus, who claimed to have
died for the sake of the human race, but didn't stay dead. Reminds me of
some politicians.

Temporary executions?

Sylvia.

Brad

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Feb 27, 2011, 11:16:36 PM2/27/11
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Indeed. Considering that death by electrocution is caused by the
stopping of the heart until the victim is dead, I can say that the
jolts I have received have caused my heart to race and my arms to
ache.

Wolfgang Wildeblood

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Feb 28, 2011, 12:09:52 AM2/28/11
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On Feb 28, 12:05 pm, Sylvia Else <syl...@not.here.invalid> wrote:

> On 28/02/2011 2:46 PM, Wolfgang Wildeblood wrote:
>
> > On Feb 28, 11:26 am, Dingo Bob<dingobob...@gmail.com>  wrote:
> >> On Feb 28, 1:52 pm, Brad<goog...@vk2qq.com>  wrote:
>
> >>> I was going to mention at this point that I have been electrocuted
> >>> numerous times. Perhaps 'electrocuted' is the wrong word, 'shocked' is
> >>> more accurate. I work with many different voltages, fortunately many
> >>> are not in the lethal category, but the slightest slip or carelessness
> >>> can certainly brighten up my day. ;-)
>
> >> Since electrocution means "death caused by electricity", you are
> >> indeed wise to state that perhaps you are using the wrong word.
>
> > So if the ambulance guys manage to resuscitate you, you haven't been
> > electrocuted? So one could be electrocuted, then de-electrocuted?
>
> See, now you've got me started. Electrocution means dying as a result of
> an electric shock. But according to the media, there are many people
> alive today who've died, but then been revived. So, apparently dying
> does not necessarily result in a permanent death, and presumably one can
> be electrocuted but then recover.

[religious bigotry snipped]

Well there is obviously a qualitative difference between the
experience Brad is talking about - which involves a deleted expletive
and an embarrassed grin - and the experience I was talking about -
which involves yelling, crying and calling an ambulance. So if we can
agree the former is being electroshocked, you'll need to provide
another term for the latter, or accept the untidy reality of
electrocution.survivable & electrocution.fatal.

Alternatively, doesn't electrocute mean "to make cute by application
of electricity"? When I was at school, a girl turned up one day with
an early-eighties-style, frizzy hair perm, and immediately earned
herself the long-lasting nickname "5,000 Volts".

Brad

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Feb 28, 2011, 1:15:34 AM2/28/11
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On Feb 28, 4:09 pm, Wolfgang Wildeblood <wolfgangwildebl...@gmail.com>
wrote:

It's interesting how words change their meaning. The word Electrocute
was coined from electro and exe-cute according to one reference. Now
we take it to mean something else. Your niece received electrical
burns. I have a colleague who was struck by lightning but would not
use the term 'electrocute' in that instance. And a neighbour, an
electrician, who has just spent 6 months recovering from his brush
with death. I would have used the term 'electrocuted' until a few
minutes ago.

Now as an apprentice in the tv repair industry, one of our favourite
games was to hold on to the metal shaft of a screw driver and touch
the metal cap of the 11kv EHT oscillator and draw long purple arcs
away from it. As long as nobody brushed past us, we were safe although
the soles of my shoes used to crackle and glow blue.

At one stage four of us held hands, I held the screwdriver and the
fellow on the far end touched the metal bench. BAM! we all landed on
our arses laughing like the idiots we were. OH&S had not been invented
yet.

Dingo Bob

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Feb 28, 2011, 1:28:00 AM2/28/11
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On Feb 28, 5:15 pm, Brad <goog...@vk2qq.com> wrote:

> Now as an apprentice in the tv repair industry, one of our favourite
> games was to hold on to the metal shaft of a screw driver and touch
> the metal cap of the 11kv EHT oscillator and draw long purple arcs
> away from it. As long as nobody brushed past us, we were safe although
> the soles of my shoes used to crackle and glow blue.

This has got "Darwin Awards" written all over it.....

Wolfgang Wildeblood

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Feb 28, 2011, 2:30:30 AM2/28/11
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I note that in last Monday's episode of QI Stephen Fry claimed to be
unfamiliar with the phrase "Darwin Award" and required it to be
explained.

Brad

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Feb 28, 2011, 3:16:39 AM2/28/11
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On Feb 28, 6:30 pm, Wolfgang Wildeblood <wolfgangwildebl...@gmail.com>
wrote:

That's because he spends all his time on twitter instead of the
interweb.

Brad

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Feb 28, 2011, 3:16:02 AM2/28/11
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Naaahh, it's not like playing with trains, it's harmless goofing off.
There isn't enough current in it to do us any permanent damage.

Dingo Bob

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Feb 28, 2011, 3:22:10 AM2/28/11
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Sounds like your brain's irreparably damaged already.

Brad

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Feb 28, 2011, 3:29:05 AM2/28/11
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On Feb 28, 7:22 pm, Dingo Bob <dingobob...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > > This has got "Darwin Awards" written all over it.....
>
> > Naaahh, it's not like playing with trains, it's harmless goofing off.
> > There isn't enough current in it to do us any permanent damage.
>
> Sounds like your brain's irreparably damaged already.

I can't help that. It's hereditary.

DavidW

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Feb 28, 2011, 5:37:11 PM2/28/11
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Haven't there been cases where a burglar has successfully sued his victim for
slipping on something? No good lawyer woud be put off by attempting to get an
outcome that is an affront to justice.


DavidW

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Feb 28, 2011, 5:40:47 PM2/28/11
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Wolfgang Wildeblood wrote:
> New South Wales Police and the State Government are urging people to
> be sensible...
>
> "[We] shouldn't need to tell people to be careful but unfortunately we
> do," he said.

Uh, do they really think that a person considering climbing onto the roof of a
train would decide against it after being told to be "careful"?


Sylvia Else

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Feb 28, 2011, 7:36:00 PM2/28/11
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That appears to be an urban myth. There was a case in the US where a
student fell through a skylight while tresspassing on a school roof. He
sued the school, and got what looks to have been a "nuisance"
settlement, where a defendant pays to make a case go away because
running a successful defence would cost more. However, it doesn't appear
that the student was intending to steal anything, and the "success"
consisted of getting a relatively small amount of money, not in having a
court find in his favour.

See

http://overlawyered.com/2006/09/the-burglar-and-the-skylight-another-debunking-that-isnt/

> No good lawyer woud be put off by attempting to get an
> outcome that is an affront to justice.

Not the lawyers, perhaps, but plaintiffs (in Australia) pay costs when
they lose.

Sylvia.

DavidW

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Feb 28, 2011, 8:20:19 PM2/28/11
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Okay. I know that Judge Judy would not stand for it.


Coach

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Feb 28, 2011, 8:28:42 PM2/28/11
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Not quite an urban myth. I recall a case I was involved in where a
man set up barbed wire in his house and was charged with possessing
man-traps (obviously before political correctness became trendy) and
was convicted.

Dingo Bob

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Feb 28, 2011, 8:38:14 PM2/28/11
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On Mar 1, 12:28 pm, Coach <suv...@yahoo.fr> wrote:

> Not quite an urban myth.  I recall a case I was involved in where a
> man set up barbed wire in his house and was charged with possessing
> man-traps (obviously before political correctness became trendy) and
> was convicted.

Sounds like a desperate closeted homosexual looking for a partner -
did this happen in North Bondi?

Brad

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Feb 28, 2011, 8:52:37 PM2/28/11
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On Mar 1, 12:28 pm, Coach <suv...@yahoo.fr> wrote:

That's the same as keeping a baseball or cricket bat beside the bed
and using it on an intruder. "Laying in wait" is an offence.

Sylvia Else

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Feb 28, 2011, 8:56:43 PM2/28/11
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That doesn't appear to relate to burgulars suing their intended victims.

Sylvia.

Brad

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Feb 28, 2011, 8:59:21 PM2/28/11
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It would be, if you clobbered one.

Sylvia Else

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Feb 28, 2011, 9:02:11 PM2/28/11
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I think not. One is allowed to defend oneself, and possession of an
offensive weapon in one's house is not an offence.

Sylvia.

Sylvia Else

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Feb 28, 2011, 9:03:46 PM2/28/11
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With the barbed wire?

Anyway, it would depend on the circumstances of the clobbering - where
it was a reasonable response.

Sylvia.

DavidW

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Feb 28, 2011, 9:14:19 PM2/28/11
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Brad wrote:
> "Laying in wait" is an offence.

Correct is '"Lying in wait" is an offence'. Usually only warnings or reprimands
are given, but this is an egregious error.

Banned from posting on aus.tv for 24 hours.

-----The above post has been examined by the aus.tv grammar moderator-----


AStext

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Feb 28, 2011, 9:58:32 PM2/28/11
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On Mar 1, 1:14 pm, "DavidW" <n...@email.provided> wrote:
> Brad wrote:
> > "Laying in wait" is an offence.

> Correct is '"Lying in wait" is an offence'. Usually only warnings or reprimands
> are given, but this is an egregious error.

Maybe he is a bit clucky?

Brad

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Feb 28, 2011, 10:37:42 PM2/28/11
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On Mar 1, 1:14 pm, "DavidW" <n...@email.provided> wrote:

Damn! I'll go away and sulk for a while.

Wolfgang Wildeblood

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Feb 28, 2011, 11:25:51 PM2/28/11
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On Mar 1, 6:37 am, "DavidW" <n...@email.provided> wrote:

> Haven't there been cases where a burglar has successfully sued his victim for
> slipping on something? No good lawyer woud be put off by attempting to get an
> outcome that is an affront to justice.

I used to know a man who several times appeared as an expert witness
regarding insurers' liabilities - explaining to the court the
difference between flood damage and stormwater damage, and hence
whether the insurer or the home-owner was liable - that sort of thing.
He appeared in a case where a trespasser had sued a home-owner after
tripping over a garden hose left lying across a lawn. I don't know
whether the insurance company paid or not, but I advise aus.tvers to
always coil their hoses neatly after they've finished watering their
gardens. It's not just an urban myth, such suits do happen.

Dingo Bob

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Feb 28, 2011, 11:42:49 PM2/28/11
to
On Mar 1, 1:58 pm, AStext <ast...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > Brad wrote:
> > > "Laying in wait" is an offence.
> > Correct is '"Lying in wait" is an offence'. Usually only warnings or reprimands
> > are given, but this is an egregious error.
>
> Maybe he is a bit clucky?


Or someone EGGed him on, and he came out of his SHELL but found the
YOKE was on him. Either that or he POACHed the idea from Someone Else
and his mind became SCRAMBLED?

Brad

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Feb 28, 2011, 11:51:58 PM2/28/11
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On Mar 1, 3:25 pm, Wolfgang Wildeblood <wolfgangwildebl...@gmail.com>
wrote:

What if he tripped on the neatly coiled hose?

Wolfgang Wildeblood

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Mar 1, 2011, 12:38:34 AM3/1/11
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The trendies call it "harm minimization", David. You know the sort of
thing: heroine is a dangerous, addictive, illegal drug that can kill
you, so here's a nice clean room where you can safely inject it. The
people who follow the harm minimization logic would have no problem
with saying, "Train surfing is extremely dangerous, but if you do
climb onto the roof of a train, please be careful of the high voltage
equipment up there."

DavidW

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Mar 1, 2011, 4:08:44 PM3/1/11
to

I think by "be careful" they mean, "don't do it."


Wolfgang Wildeblood

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Mar 1, 2011, 9:09:40 PM3/1/11
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Oh yeah? Explain the tax-payer funded safe injecting rooms then?

DavidW

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Mar 1, 2011, 9:16:53 PM3/1/11