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Ping Clayton & Lindsay; Slight Problem with Boyds stock.
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Rod Outback
Nov 30, 2014, 5:07:52 PM11/30/14
to
Gents,
Had my shooting mate visit the other day, and Mark kindly fitted my Long
Bolt Stop into the Tikka T3. This allows me to use the long magazines,
which will help improve the accuracy of the 7mm-08 loads. I have 2 new
'Long' magazines, and when Mark visits for a week in Mid-December, he will
work up a load or two to see if the longer seating depth will resolve the
poor accuracy of the 140Gn Ballistic Tips (He thinks it will). We had
screwed the 120Gn BT loads down to about 0.5MOA, but the 140Gn BT loads were
(at best) just over MOA,
139Gn loads are rumoured to be the best flyers for 7mm, so we suspect the
rifle itself is is causing some of the problem.
While trying to resolve the poor performance of the 140gn loads, we had
ended up having the factory stock professionally bedded, and I have to say
the guy did an exceptional job of it. Mark noted that the new Boyds stock
isnt bedded, which isnt too surprising. He really likes the Boyds stock,
but wondered if it will need bedding as well.
When he finished fitting the bolt stop, and went to torque the stock screws
down, we find we cant torque the damn things down without preventing the
rifle from cycling! Tightening the back screw to torque caused the bolt to
stop about 10mm off closing(Stock screw is now fouling the bolt), and
tightening down the front screw to torque caused the magazine to not lock
in!
[Turns out that I had the screws firm, but not torqued down. By the time my
mate went to remove the Boyds stock to fit the bolt stop, the screws were
barely finger-tight].
The back one seems to be that the Boyds stock is slightly less thick at the
rear mounting point, and the screw will intrude into the bolt's travel. The
front problem seems to be that the plastic around the mag-well starts to
deform, and stops the mag from locking in. If you back the screw off a
half-turn, the mags lock in just fine.
In theory, we could shorten the rear screw with a grinder, but this wont
solve the problem on the front.
So, the solution seems to be, that Mark is bringing some alloy bedding
pillars/posts out with him in December. He thinks this will solve the
issue, as it will correctly space the stock for the action.
Plan B would be to properly bed the new stock, and I would likely send it to
the guy whom bedded the factory stock, if that is the case..
Now, you possibly wont have seen this problem with the short action, but it
would seem the Boyds stock isnt quite as drop-in as I thought.
However, the vote to date is that EVERYONE whom has looked at both stocks,
have picked the Boyds stock as their choice. It is a MUCH nicer stock, and
are incredibly cheap for what they are.
I shall let you know the result of the installing the alloy bedding pillar,
and then the results of seating the projectiles further out. I have a new
Leupold VX-1 3-9x50 scope with an LR Duplex reticule arriving in the next
few weeks. That will replace the little 6x38 Weaver currently mounted on
the 7mm-08, and I expect it might vastly improve things as well. The LR
reticule has 2 holdover points below the crosshairs, which should make
distance shooting pretty simple.
We did a quick drive around when Mark was here Wednesday; he was keen to
field test his latest .260; fitted into a MacMillan A5 tactical stock, and
driving 95gr V-Max projectiles. The rifle is bloody heavy fitted in that
stock, but it is intended to be a tactical setup, and the stock is certainly
something else!
20 roos were approached about assisting in the field test, and they all gave
excellent renditions of 'Pink-Mist' syndrome.
[I note my visiting elder brother was getting rather quiet, after
'Pink-Mist' event number 10; he hadnt appreciated that head-shooting roos at
150 metres from the Landcruiser window was nothing special, when your rifle
and shooter are set up correctly.]
Food for thought for you both.
No cats sighted recently, though a ginger cat was found dead about 4kms from
the house, at a dam. No-one is claiming responsibility, and I wonder if one
of the light showers the past fortnight has freshened a 10-80 bait up for
puddin.
TERRIBLY sad that I wasnt there at the end for him, though...sigh.
Cheers,
Rod...Out Back
-------
For Photos I've taken since June 2013:
http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/Rod_Outback/library/
For a Roundup of photos taken until Flickr ruined their site in 2013, have a
look at
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rod_outback/
Had my shooting mate visit the other day, and Mark kindly fitted my Long
Bolt Stop into the Tikka T3. This allows me to use the long magazines,
which will help improve the accuracy of the 7mm-08 loads. I have 2 new
'Long' magazines, and when Mark visits for a week in Mid-December, he will
work up a load or two to see if the longer seating depth will resolve the
poor accuracy of the 140Gn Ballistic Tips (He thinks it will). We had
screwed the 120Gn BT loads down to about 0.5MOA, but the 140Gn BT loads were
(at best) just over MOA,
139Gn loads are rumoured to be the best flyers for 7mm, so we suspect the
rifle itself is is causing some of the problem.
While trying to resolve the poor performance of the 140gn loads, we had
ended up having the factory stock professionally bedded, and I have to say
the guy did an exceptional job of it. Mark noted that the new Boyds stock
isnt bedded, which isnt too surprising. He really likes the Boyds stock,
but wondered if it will need bedding as well.
When he finished fitting the bolt stop, and went to torque the stock screws
down, we find we cant torque the damn things down without preventing the
rifle from cycling! Tightening the back screw to torque caused the bolt to
stop about 10mm off closing(Stock screw is now fouling the bolt), and
tightening down the front screw to torque caused the magazine to not lock
in!
[Turns out that I had the screws firm, but not torqued down. By the time my
mate went to remove the Boyds stock to fit the bolt stop, the screws were
barely finger-tight].
The back one seems to be that the Boyds stock is slightly less thick at the
rear mounting point, and the screw will intrude into the bolt's travel. The
front problem seems to be that the plastic around the mag-well starts to
deform, and stops the mag from locking in. If you back the screw off a
half-turn, the mags lock in just fine.
In theory, we could shorten the rear screw with a grinder, but this wont
solve the problem on the front.
So, the solution seems to be, that Mark is bringing some alloy bedding
pillars/posts out with him in December. He thinks this will solve the
issue, as it will correctly space the stock for the action.
Plan B would be to properly bed the new stock, and I would likely send it to
the guy whom bedded the factory stock, if that is the case..
Now, you possibly wont have seen this problem with the short action, but it
would seem the Boyds stock isnt quite as drop-in as I thought.
However, the vote to date is that EVERYONE whom has looked at both stocks,
have picked the Boyds stock as their choice. It is a MUCH nicer stock, and
are incredibly cheap for what they are.
I shall let you know the result of the installing the alloy bedding pillar,
and then the results of seating the projectiles further out. I have a new
Leupold VX-1 3-9x50 scope with an LR Duplex reticule arriving in the next
few weeks. That will replace the little 6x38 Weaver currently mounted on
the 7mm-08, and I expect it might vastly improve things as well. The LR
reticule has 2 holdover points below the crosshairs, which should make
distance shooting pretty simple.
We did a quick drive around when Mark was here Wednesday; he was keen to
field test his latest .260; fitted into a MacMillan A5 tactical stock, and
driving 95gr V-Max projectiles. The rifle is bloody heavy fitted in that
stock, but it is intended to be a tactical setup, and the stock is certainly
something else!
20 roos were approached about assisting in the field test, and they all gave
excellent renditions of 'Pink-Mist' syndrome.
[I note my visiting elder brother was getting rather quiet, after
'Pink-Mist' event number 10; he hadnt appreciated that head-shooting roos at
150 metres from the Landcruiser window was nothing special, when your rifle
and shooter are set up correctly.]
Food for thought for you both.
No cats sighted recently, though a ginger cat was found dead about 4kms from
the house, at a dam. No-one is claiming responsibility, and I wonder if one
of the light showers the past fortnight has freshened a 10-80 bait up for
puddin.
TERRIBLY sad that I wasnt there at the end for him, though...sigh.
Cheers,
Rod...Out Back
-------
For Photos I've taken since June 2013:
http://s1035.photobucket.com/user/Rod_Outback/library/
For a Roundup of photos taken until Flickr ruined their site in 2013, have a
look at
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rod_outback/
Clayton Lawrence
Dec 1, 2014, 4:36:42 AM12/1/14
to
Hi Rod,
I cant say i have noticed that issue on my boyds stock and Lindsay has fired off his .223 since fitting the new boyds stock without any fouling.
Could well be the long action or they machined off a bit to much meat where the action touches the stock or the wood is a bit soft.
Cheers,
Clayton.
I cant say i have noticed that issue on my boyds stock and Lindsay has fired off his .223 since fitting the new boyds stock without any fouling.
Could well be the long action or they machined off a bit to much meat where the action touches the stock or the wood is a bit soft.
Cheers,
Clayton.
Clayton Lawrence
Dec 1, 2014, 4:56:47 AM12/1/14
to
marko
Dec 2, 2014, 4:07:14 PM12/2/14
to
Rod Outback wrote:
> [Turns out that I had the screws firm, but not torqued down. By the time
> [my
> mate went to remove the Boyds stock to fit the bolt stop, the screws were
> barely finger-tight].
>
My Anschutz 22 field rifle varies between 1.5 and .25 MOA between 15 and 30
> [Turns out that I had the screws firm, but not torqued down. By the time
> [my
> mate went to remove the Boyds stock to fit the bolt stop, the screws were
> barely finger-tight].
>
inch pounds torque on the action screw. The action is not bedded and 15
inlb's seems firm. After 35 inlb's, the group starts to spread again.
A net search will get you some commonly used torques for your actions, but
it is worth playing around one day when you have time.
I don't think action torque and load are related, so you play with either
any time.
cheers
Marko
Rod Outback
Dec 2, 2014, 5:44:16 PM12/2/14
to
"marko" <ma...@marko.marko> wrote in message
news:547e2a01$0$41730$c3e8da3$5d8f...@news.astraweb.com...
We already have the correct torque value for the action, but we cant apply
it to the new stock without either a) bedding the stock properly, or b)
fitting some bedding pillars.
Mate has the bedding pillars for this rifle, and will bring them when he
arrives for a week late next week.
Cheers,
Rod.
marko
Dec 2, 2014, 5:57:15 PM12/2/14
to
they are good enough, stop there. But 5 inch pounds (not much) each way can
make a very big difference. You will see it in 3 or 5 shot groups, if you
don't then look elsewhere . . .
Cheers
Marko
Rod Outback
Dec 17, 2014, 8:16:49 PM12/17/14
to
"Rod Outback" <No-...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:qa-dnTt9r-OqCObJ...@giganews.com...
find that a washer underneath the plastic bottom plate allowed us to torque
them down to the right values, and everything worked. Havent tried the
rifle since for consistency, but everything now works, and we didnt need to
shorten bolts etc.
If the new scope ever arrives, I'll trial it then.
Cheers,
Rod.
Clayton
Sep 27, 2015, 1:04:31 AM9/27/15
to
Hi Rod,
I ran into the same issue yesterday when setting the torque on the action screws on the 204 in the boyds stock. Trigger guard deformed and magazine wouldn't slide in until I backed it off. Looks like the stock could do with a bit more meat under the trigger guard where it touches.
No issues with the trigger guard warping on the 308 in Lindsay's old walnut stock.
Just out of curiosity did you fit a flat washer under both ends of the trigger guard and of so what size and thickness?
Going to Lindsay's next week and want to get it sorted so I can sight it in again.
Cheers,
Clayton.
I ran into the same issue yesterday when setting the torque on the action screws on the 204 in the boyds stock. Trigger guard deformed and magazine wouldn't slide in until I backed it off. Looks like the stock could do with a bit more meat under the trigger guard where it touches.
No issues with the trigger guard warping on the 308 in Lindsay's old walnut stock.
Just out of curiosity did you fit a flat washer under both ends of the trigger guard and of so what size and thickness?
Going to Lindsay's next week and want to get it sorted so I can sight it in again.
Cheers,
Clayton.
Rod Outback
Sep 27, 2015, 7:29:42 PM9/27/15
to
"Clayton" <v6...@msn.com> wrote in message
news:2512948c-d84b-4030...@googlegroups.com...
Clayton,
We did mess around with a couple of washers, as well as proper bedding
pillars, and we contined to have issues with the Boyds stock. So, to answer
your question; yes, we did try a couple of ~1mm washers, and it didnt seem
to work for us.
I suspect the Boyds stock needs someone who knows how to bed it properly, to
get it to work.
I cant say for certain which one resolved the issue, but we replaced the
very basic Weaver K series scope (with a Nightforce SHV 5-22x56), and the
Boyds stock with a Tikka Varmint stock that a mate had spare.
End result is we got a VERY accurate rifle after these changes, and I am
still yet to actually experiment with seating the projectiles further out
(The long bolt stop and bi mags allows us to seat them a lot further out).
Elder brother arrived for a couple of months (long service leave - navy) a
fortnight back; something of a sceptic with the 7mm-08. He had used it a
couple of times before the makeover, and wasnt able to hit anything.
This time around, Jon is finding that his ability to reach out and touch
stuff is steadily growing with his confidence, which demonstrates it's no
longer the rifle thats holding him back.
While I'm not sure he's completely sold on the T3 platform, Jon does
appreciate he has a very accurate rifle to use, which is still quite light
and reasonably compact.
Each afternoon, I get regaled with the latest shot at distance, which is
freaking frustrating when I havent had the chance to get out and pokk,
myself...
[I'm sure I wasnt much better when I started pokking things out beyond 250
yards with the ERG...]
Do you know anyone who is good at bedding an action properly?
Cheers,
Rod.
news:2512948c-d84b-4030...@googlegroups.com...
We did mess around with a couple of washers, as well as proper bedding
pillars, and we contined to have issues with the Boyds stock. So, to answer
your question; yes, we did try a couple of ~1mm washers, and it didnt seem
to work for us.
I suspect the Boyds stock needs someone who knows how to bed it properly, to
get it to work.
I cant say for certain which one resolved the issue, but we replaced the
very basic Weaver K series scope (with a Nightforce SHV 5-22x56), and the
Boyds stock with a Tikka Varmint stock that a mate had spare.
End result is we got a VERY accurate rifle after these changes, and I am
still yet to actually experiment with seating the projectiles further out
(The long bolt stop and bi mags allows us to seat them a lot further out).
Elder brother arrived for a couple of months (long service leave - navy) a
fortnight back; something of a sceptic with the 7mm-08. He had used it a
couple of times before the makeover, and wasnt able to hit anything.
This time around, Jon is finding that his ability to reach out and touch
stuff is steadily growing with his confidence, which demonstrates it's no
longer the rifle thats holding him back.
While I'm not sure he's completely sold on the T3 platform, Jon does
appreciate he has a very accurate rifle to use, which is still quite light
and reasonably compact.
Each afternoon, I get regaled with the latest shot at distance, which is
freaking frustrating when I havent had the chance to get out and pokk,
myself...
[I'm sure I wasnt much better when I started pokking things out beyond 250
yards with the ERG...]
Do you know anyone who is good at bedding an action properly?
Cheers,
Rod.
Clayton
Sep 27, 2015, 8:02:53 PM9/27/15
to
Thanks Rod.
I will try a few different thicknesses until I can torque the action screws to at least to 35lb ft without distorting the trigger guard.
I don't personally know anyone in the action bedding game.
How does the 7mm-08 compare to your 308?
Cheers,
Clayton.
I will try a few different thicknesses until I can torque the action screws to at least to 35lb ft without distorting the trigger guard.
I don't personally know anyone in the action bedding game.
How does the 7mm-08 compare to your 308?
Cheers,
Clayton.
Rod Outback
Sep 28, 2015, 1:27:19 AM9/28/15
to
The 7mm-08 has (finally!!) proven to be an excellent distance cartridge,
which is what the advice was prior to purchase, but the initial results
were not even close.
I dont see it as being lower recoil than .308, but then the T3 is a much
lighter rifle than the ERG. However, if you need to walk some distance, and
might need a good hunting rifle with distance capability, the T3 is
certainly my first choice.
(Jon seems to concur with this; rather emphatically!)
So, am I happy with the 7mm-08 for it's performance?
Yep!
No question about it.
Would I buy another one?
Nope.
Why not?
It certainly isnt the ballistics; the 7mm reaches out a looooong way.
Initially, I thought brass would be an issue, but it turns out to be VERY
simple to form either .243 or .308 brass into 7mm-08.
It's just too limited in projectile options, and there are PLENTY of
stories about the cartridge being very picky about certain
projectile/powder combinations. I suspect we had this very issue with the
140gn Ballistic Tips, which we never fully sorted out.
To be fair, the 120gn V-Max loads are freaking awesome.
However, for the 7mm-08, I have 1 load that shoots well.
For the .308, I have at least 4 loads that shoot really well, and thats
because I havent played with some of the other projectiles yet. Heck; I
could even load up FTX or Monoflex projectiles from the .30-30 and get a
reasonable result from them...
A number of mates have bought .260, which is what I initially looked at.
The 6.5mm projectiles have been around since Adam was a lad, and there is a
LOT of data on the huge range available. My mates runs 95gn V-Max's
through his .260, and he can pokk a roo a LONG way away. The .260 can be
loaded up somewhere around 150gn or so, but 95gn seems the sweet spot for
him.
At the end of the day, it's hard for me to move away from either .22 cal,
.243 cal, or .308. These are the most common calibres available, and when
I was pokking a few hoppy's on sunset a few days ago, I realised (yet
again) why I had fallen in love with the .308.
If I lived near a big gun shop, I'd probably have more incentive to repeat
the 7mm experiment, and there isnt anything overlly wrong with the
cartridge.
But out here, the extremely limited options for reloading components, gets
a bit frustrating.
Put it this way; when I wear out the barrel on the ERG, it will be replaced
with a shorter .308 barrel. If I ever shoot the .243 to wear it out again,
I'll likely go with another .243. When Dan wears out the .223 rifle, we
will replace it with another. On the other hand, when the 7mm-08 barrel
wears out, I'll either end up with a .260, or another .308..
My one MAJOR frustration with .308??? The ONLY V-Max projectile available
in .30 cal is 110gn. I wish I could source a varmint projectile in around
130gn, but my only option is a 125gn Nosler Ballistic Tip, or some of the
130gn Speer TNT HP. I have both of these on hand, but havent really got
anything as light as a V-Max.
Cheers,
Rod.
--
Working the iPad...
Clayton
Sep 28, 2015, 7:17:47 AM9/28/15
to
Thanks for your insight Rod.
Hopefully this weekend I can blood the .308 on something bigger than a rabbit.
Hopefully this weekend I can blood the .308 on something bigger than a rabbit.
Lindsay
Sep 28, 2015, 5:20:18 PM9/28/15
to
On 28/09/2015 9:17 PM, Clayton wrote:
> Thanks for your insight Rod.
>
> Hopefully this weekend I can blood the .308 on something bigger than a rabbit.
>
Not me!!!! :-)
> Thanks for your insight Rod.
>
> Hopefully this weekend I can blood the .308 on something bigger than a rabbit.
>
or the drone :-D Anyone taking pot shots at the drone will need deep
pockets :-)
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