Opinions: Most overrated player of all time?
Bali Boogie Board
engines......
Bunny
"Bali Boogie Board" <baliboo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1175597691.7...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> This one's going to be interesting ;-) Gentlemen, start your
> engines......
>
Brad Fittler. One of the greatest players ever, but so often he didn't show
up when he needed to.
Geraint Vincent }:c{»
> This one's going to be interesting ;-) Gentlemen, start your
> engines......
Brad Fittler.
He actually had ability but was MIA too often. I saw plenty more media hype
on him than Terry Hill. Hill would come under a different category. He got
picked for rep sides over more deserving candidates but I don't think that
was due to media and fan ratings.
Mark Gasnier would be right up there with Fittler. Again, plenty of ability
but hardly ever using it.
Fish Womper
Perhaps this was so after he turned to the Dark Side. He gave the
final pass for the try that turned a Grand Final and pulled off a
superb covering tackle on a rampaging Meninga in the same match. He
showed up when needed that day.
Even so, the Roosters seem to have gone nowhere but down since he hung
up his boots.
fish
Fish Womper
wrote:
>On 3 Apr 2007 03:54:51 -0700, "Bali Boogie Board"
><baliboo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>This one's going to be interesting ;-) Gentlemen, start your
>>engines......
>
>Of all time? Big ask. I'll limit my pick to the MattyO system, ie my
>lifetime - post-1940.
>
>Absolutely, positively no doubt in my mind that Matthew Johns is very
>over-rated. He's great going forward behind a pack in control of the
>game, but when the going gets tough, he simply loses it. But I don't
>think he's the most over-rated by any means.
>
>Probably, it would have to be someone in the class of Terry Hill to
>even come close. Ellery Hanley, perhaps? Bill Ashurst?
This bloke was an out and out champion when the mood took him, but
used to drop everything in the middle of the season and head back to
Blighty for a few weeks rest. I note with interest that Penrith last
year named him in their greatest ever side.
I would say Andrew Johns is the most overrated player around at the
moment. Because he is rated as the greatest player ever by so many. He
too is an out and out champion at times, but very ordinary at other
times, and about the worst loser ever to lace on a boot.
fish
>
>I'll settle for Terry Hill. The others all had some redeeming
>features.
>
>Mique
ruud
> Perhaps this was so after he turned to the Dark Side. He gave the
> final pass for the try that turned a Grand Final and pulled off a
> superb covering tackle on a rampaging Meninga in the same match. He
> showed up when needed that day.
>
> Even so, the Roosters seem to have gone nowhere but down since he hung
> up his boots.
Having Fittler hanging around on the coaching staff is not helping either.
He might have been there and done it as a player, but I don't think there's
a lot going on between his ears. And I don't remember Fittler being that
committed to his training when he was a player either. It's not a good
example to set having him around. Compare Fittler to Geoff Toovey on the
coaching staff at Manly for instance.
Maybe Anasta is the problem anyway? Fucking prima donna.
Sharktcwnwap
"Bali Boogie Board" <baliboo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1175597691.7...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> This one's going to be interesting ;-) Gentlemen, start your
> engines......
Gasnier
--
Sharktcwnwap
**MattO**
> On Wed, 4 Apr 2007 08:11:56 +1200, "Sharktcwnwap"
>
> <sha...@firefox.co.tvk> wrote:
>
> >"Bali Boogie Board" <baliboogiebo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:1175597691.7...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> >> This one's going to be interesting ;-) Gentlemen, start your
> >> engines......
>
> >Gasnier
>
>
> Mique
Obviously not Reg Gasnier ....
**MattO**
> wrote:
>
> >Of all time? Big ask. I'll limit my pick to the MattyO system, ie my
> >lifetime - post-1940.
Good to see I'm still remembered.
This is a tough one and seriously tough.
I would have said Brad Fittler but his impact at the Roosters has been
felt more since he retired than he was playing. The Roosters
recruitment and retention policy has been diabolical since making the
2004 Grand Final. Outlaying big sums for Roberts, Firman, Monaghan,
Anasta, Harrison and Myles has been a huge mistake. They had to stop
buying for the sake of buying and instead look to retain the likes of
Crocker, Cusack and Morley first and foremost.
Most over-rated team is the Roosters. I mean Politis comes out and
says there's more pressure because you're at the Roosters and they've
only won one clayton's NRL assisted competition in the last 30 years.
Peter Sterling I believe was over-rated. A fine player, but I for one
believed he fed off Cronin, Price and Kenny more than they fed off
him. Being a media darling helped him. I remember many times Mortimer
or Lamb (depending who was halfback) embarrassed Sterlo in club games.
As for the most over-rated. Well too tough a question as there's so
many options.
I will go out on a limb and say someone. Shaun Edwards. Certainly
Shaun Edwards. They all pumped him up as a champion over in England
and all he achieved was knocking Brad Clyde's head off, nothing more.
As for the most under-rated is easy to say to the point where I won't
even mention the name.
Sharktcwnwap
"Mike Burke" <mbu...@pcug.org.au> wrote in message
news:b6n513tn4anidi9u6...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 4 Apr 2007 08:11:56 +1200, "Sharktcwnwap"
> <sha...@firefox.co.tvk> wrote:
>
>>
Mark.
--
Sharktcwnwap
**MattO**
> On 3 Apr 2007 17:27:28 -0700, "**MattO**" <matt...@rleague.com> wrote:
>
> >I will go out on a limb and say someone. Shaun Edwards. Certainly
> >Shaun Edwards. They all pumped him up as a champion over in England
> >and all he achieved was knocking Brad Clyde's head off, nothing more.
>
> too, but I couldn't remember his name - just as I couldn't dig the
> name of that other great under-achiever, Andy Farrell, out of the soup
> when I wrote that message late last night.
I forgot about Andy Farrell. Massively over-rated and couldn't handle
pressure.
> >As for the most under-rated is easy to say to the point where I won't
> >even mention the name.
>
> Thppppppppppppt! :-)
Yep none other than Baa Baa. One of the true legends the game
produced.
Yurk Yurk
Ian George
> This one's going to be interesting ;-) Gentlemen, start your
> engines......
No risk: Allan Tongue
:) Iknow, I know, but it's such a stupid question - perhaps the answer
should be 'any player the media meatheads ever nominated as "the worlds best
player"...'
'n
Sharktcwnwap
"**MattO**" <mat...@rleague.com> wrote in message
news:1175652208.4...@d57g2000hsg.googlegroups.com...
Cheap shot merchant. Pink bitch. Yep, a real role model.
For a country that'll select wife-beaters it's no surprise.
--
Sharktcwnwap
ruud
> Cheap shot merchant. Pink bitch. Yep, a real role model.
>
> For a country that'll select wife-beaters it's no surprise.
Definitely a dirty cunt but he does hold the record for most games played.
Menzies looks like he's going to be injury-prone for the next 2 seasons if
he plays so lamb will probably hold the record for a few years yet. He
copped a lot of square-ups in those 350 or so games and never whinged once.
Sharktcwnwap
"ruud" <n...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3%GQh.9077$M....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
He bought it on himself.
He picked on clean, smaller players generally, e.g. Speechley. And even that
one was a king hit. He was no different from Danny Williams and you saw how
long he got out of the game. Under current rules Lamb would have been lucky
to play 35 games.
--
Sharktcwnwap
ruud
Well he definitely got ellery hanley, that tackle won canterbury the grand
final, dirty cunt.
muzza
"Bali Boogie Board" <baliboo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1175597691.7...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> engines......
Well you would have to assume the whole of NSW blues.
Then prolly rooster players.
Will have to throw johns in there somewhere.
And last: No Qld ers.maroons or whatever.
PS/ couple of doggies 2.
georgiarose
"Bali Boogie Board" <baliboo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1175597691.7...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> engines......
>
Wally Lewis
[tab]
<baliboo...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>This one's going to be interesting ;-) Gentlemen, start your
>engines......
1991 Rothmans Medal winner (and fastest man in the world over 15
metres) Ewan McGrady?
alvey
> This one's going to be interesting ;-) Gentlemen, start your
> engines......
Whooo. So many options.
In no order.
Fittler
Gasnier
Jack
Pearce
Roach (What is it about Balmain?)
Price
Hill
Renouf
After careful consideration I'd put Gasnier at #1. Most of the others have
done something notable at some stage, however rarely. Gasnier's though has
done nuthin to justify the hype he gets. And he's a dick.
alvey
Bali Boogie Board
wrote:
> This one's going to be interesting ;-) Gentlemen, start your
> engines......
You're right, "all time" was a bit of a stupid question. But it's all
so subjective, I was just interested to hear some of the names that
would come up. Hard to disagree with any of them really (except the
oxygen thief who said 'Wally Lewis'). I agree that Andrew Johns gets
a hard time in discussions like this because of the idiots in the
media who have to keep labelling him "the greatest player to ever lace
up a boot" all the time. If they didn't keep pushing him on us like
that all the time, he would probably get more credit for his (very
considerable) skills. Agree his is about the worst loser of all time
(with the possible exception of Geoff Toovey?)
How about Martin "Chariots" Offiah ???
Bunny
"georgiarose" <georg...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:46137e4b$0$22073$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
You obviously never saw him. The king was a tremendous football player.
Bunny
"alvey" <alvey_embarr...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1pvl7v8lepchk.wdk99hvvoyln$.dlg@40tude.net...
> On 3 Apr 2007 03:54:51 -0700, Bali Boogie Board wrote:
>
>> This one's going to be interesting ;-) Gentlemen, start your
>> engines......
>
> Price
Surely that's not Ray you're referring to.
Bunny
How about nearly everyone who has pulled on a Great Britain jumper in the
past 30 years? You could exclude Hanley, Schofield, Morley and Jamie
Peacock, but probably throw the rest on the pile.
Also, nearly everyone who played for the Warriors when they were called
Auckland. Didn't they have some noteworthy fizzers - Platt, Kirwan, Marc
Ellis etc.
Some players weren't overrated because they just didn't rate in the first
place. Award goes to Eion Crossan.
Awesome Bro
wrote:
> This one's going to be interesting ;-) Gentlemen, start your
> engines......
Well for a player to be most overrated, that would have to narrow it
down to the most highly rated players. To be a highly rated player,
you have to be very good, more than just some of the time. In other
words, you have narrow it down to regular Kangaroo or Origin players.
In which case, I'd probably nominate Petero. He's highly rated. Walks
into every Kangaroo startup side. Work rate impeccable. Defence
unquestioned. Even wins player's player awards. Heck, he's even
popular with the bitterest cynics in here.
But hand him the ball and he'll do the same thing 99 times out of 100.
Rarely passes. Rarely gets an arm free. Rarely offloads. Rarely breaks
tackles. Attack 1/10.
The sad thing is, such is the state of Australia's forward stocks,
he's still one of the best, and will once again, walk into the Anzac
team.
AB
**MattO**
> On 3 Apr 2007 19:03:28 -0700, "**MattO**" <matt...@rleague.com> wrote:
>
> >Yep none other than Baa Baa. One of the true legends the game
> >produced.
>
>
> Mique
I originally thought you were thinking Michael Neil for a minute and I
am going to say he's the most over-rated under-rated player in the
games history. But than I knew you meant Turvey Mortimer who was and
is a legend and a pure gentlemen and nice bloke. But Lamb is one of
the very best players I've ever seen and the sacrifices and pain he
went through to get on the field for the Bulldogs says a lot about the
man. Lamb has never forgotten where he's come from and the three Clubs
that gave him his opportunity. He's idolised at Cheso and he put that
suburb (let alone team) on the map and someone turned up to receive
the trophy named in his honour in an old Magpies jersey and he was
wrapped. Never forgotten he played for Cheso or Wests despite a great
career with the Bulldogs.
alvey
Shirley is. He lost big points for me with his pathetic self-promotion. The
Idiot Ready to Catch The Rebound pose and the serve he got from The King
for his dressing room performances before and after the "Press coming in"
call from the doorman especially. Wanker.
alvey
georgiarose
"Bunny" <hui...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:yfMQh.9253$M.6...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
I saw him plenty. Don't get me wrong - he was a good player and could read
the game well and was a great captain. But I could never understand the way
people have boned up about him over the years. To me, he never possessed
the raw talent of an Andrew Johns or Brett Kenny et al. More similar to a
Jason Taylor in my opinion. An excellent football mind, but not overflowing
with ability.
Hammer
"Bali Boogie Board" <baliboo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1175597691.7...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> This one's going to be interesting ;-) Gentlemen, start your
> engines......
>
Trent Barret when playing for the dragons. He seemed to go ok for NSW /
Australia though.
Bunny
"alvey" <is...@allinterested.com> wrote in message
news:135jrwdb1fgej.1...@40tude.net...
He might be a knob but that doesn't alter that he was a great player.
Bunny
That was the key. He didn't have the god-given of some of his competitors,
but he out thought, outwilled and outshone them. Man's a legend.
Awesome Bro
> "georgiarose" <georgiar...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
>
> news:4614abc4$0$22073$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Bunny" <huia...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >news:yfMQh.9253$M.6...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> >> "georgiarose" <georgiar...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
> >>news:46137e4b$0$22073$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
> >>> "Bali Boogie Board" <baliboogiebo...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> >>>news:1175597691.7...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
> >>>> This one's going to be interesting ;-) Gentlemen, start your
> >>>> engines......
>
> >>> Wally Lewis
>
> >> You obviously never saw him. The king was a tremendous football player.
>
> > I saw him plenty. Don't get me wrong - he was a good player and could
> > read the game well and was a great captain. But I could never understand
> > the way people have boned up about him over the years. To me, he never
> > possessed the raw talent of an Andrew Johns or Brett Kenny et al. More
> > similar to a Jason Taylor in my opinion. An excellent football mind, but
> > not overflowing with ability.
>
> That was the key. He didn't have the god-given of some of his competitors,
> but he out thought, outwilled and outshone them. Man's a legend.
Precisely.
Wally Lewis was by far the greatest player I have seen in my lifetime.
He wasn't the fittest, the fastest or the freakiest. He couldn't step
like Marshall, kick like Stuart or defend like Gillmeister, but he had
this unique presence. A drama. The instant he appeared, every player
on the field bristled. Every spectator's pulse quickened with
anticipation. There was never any question. It was his park, and if
you could beat his team on his park, the victory was against him.
Wally was first and foremost a leader of men, one with unequalled
timing. When Wally had the ball in his hands, time stood still. That
was his skill.
Alfie Langer came close to having it, for instance when he returned
from England for the Origin. As did Gordon Tallis, though he lost it
long before retirement, and turned out to be a dud captain. Andrew
Johns, to me, the most naturally gifted of the lot, never seemed to
bring his A game when it counted. And Darren Lockyer is merely Mr Fix-
it.
Other than them, I can't say any one player since has dominated a
field like Wally. Not even close.
AB
alvey
Difference of opinion there Bunster. Ron Coote was a "great" lock. Price
was a great lock for a great club side.
alvey
Awesome Bro
> On Thu, 05 Apr 2007 08:33:48 GMT, Bunny wrote:
> >news:135jrwdb1fgej.1...@40tude.net...
> >> On Wed, 04 Apr 2007 11:48:15 GMT, Bunny wrote:
>
> >>>news:1pvl7v8lepchk.wdk99hvvoyln$.dlg@40tude.net...
> >>>> On 3 Apr 2007 03:54:51 -0700, Bali Boogie Board wrote:
>
> >>>>> This one's going to be interesting ;-) Gentlemen, start your
> >>>>> engines......
>
> >>>> Price
>
> >>> Surely that's not Ray you're referring to.
>
> >> Shirley is. He lost big points for me with his pathetic self-promotion.
> >> The
> >> Idiot Ready to Catch The Rebound pose and the serve he got from The King
> >> for his dressing room performances before and after the "Press coming in"
> >> call from the doorman especially. Wanker.
>
> >> alvey
>
> > He might be a knob but that doesn't alter that he was a great player.
>
> Difference of opinion there Bunster. Ron Coote was a "great" lock. Price
> was a great lock for a great club side.
>
> alvey
I didn't follow the Sydney comp that closely, so I really only saw
Price play a dozen odd games, mostly Tests, but from my recollection
he shouldered a pretty decent load. Being the ugliest man to ever lace
on a boot - now there's another argument - didn't do him any harm
either.
AB
Awesome Bro
>The thing that Wally Lewis had to a degree which few other
> Australian footballers have ever matched is absolute, unqualified
> respect as much from his opposition as from his own team.
Yes.
> Johns has
> precious little in that department., although he has more natural
> talent in his little finger than Wally Lewis ever had.
I think Johns has been given a fair amount of respect at points in his
career, but it's definitely waned. Talentwise, no argument, he (was)
extraordinary. I think if the discussion were what player has failed
to live up to his potential, then Johns would be number 1 with a
bullet. To me, the Johns brothers were like the Ellas. They worked
better as a unit.
> Just think who you'd rather have playing for your life. Wally would
> be very close to the top of my short list, along with Mick Cronin,
> Geoff Toovey, Reuben Wiki, Jason Croker, Ricky Stewart, Allan Tongue
> to name a few of the dozens if not hundreds I'd probably pick ahead of
> Johns. Flash talent doesn't impress me a whole lot on its own, but
> sheer guts and determination will do it for me every time, and Wally
> had bags of that.
Agree completely. Only the names might be changed to protect the
innocent. Darren Lockyer would be close to the top of that list.
AB
Awesome Bro
> On 5 Apr 2007 02:29:55 -0700, "Awesome Bro" <Awsome....@gmail.com>
> played in my lifetime with that sort of aura. Dally Messenger
> certainly had it in his day, or so we're told. Mal Meninga came
> close.
Ahh yes, I completely forgot Mal. One of the rare few who
exponentially grew in stature towards the end of his career. Fittler
was another. Didn't really notice him until his last couple of
seasons.
Never saw the other two (being so young). Have to take your word for
it.
> We really only start to appreciate people like this properly after
> they've gone, and we who happened to be fortunate enough to have seen
> them play tend to get very frustrated and annoyed when people like
> Johns get over-hyped as the best player ever to have laced on a boot
> when genuine giants of the game are forgotten.
Well I hope you don't take it out on Johns himself. I think it's
something of a tragedy that through injury, perhaps, we might have
been robbed seeing the best of him. He's definitely deserved to be
spoken about as one of the greats in waiting, but in retrospect, the
era of domination we were promised seemed to have slipped us by.
I wonder if Sonny Bill, Benji, and even Karmichael Hunt will suffer
the same fate. The former two through fragility, the latter through
being the perennial square peg.
You might recall Joey spent the first half of his career playing
second and third fiddle to Langer and Stewart.
AB
Boonarga
wrote:
> This one's going to be interesting ;-) Gentlemen, start your
> engines......
Wayne Pearce.
Of the current crop.... Karmichael and Andrew Ryan.
**MattO**
> On Apr 3, 8:54 pm, "Bali Boogie Board" <baliboogiebo...@hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > This one's going to be interesting ;-) Gentlemen, start your
> > engines......
>
> Wayne Pearce.
The Balmain pack of that era was pretty over-rated. They seemed to get
the rep gigs whereas they were never once regarded as the best pack by
their opponents. Langmack was very unlucky not to represent more.
Pearce, Sterling and Ettingshausen were pumped by the NSWRL as the
'Good Guys' and given free rides as they needed some darlings in the
post Boyd era.
> Of the current crop.... Karmichael and Andrew Ryan.
Ryan is a good player. Not a good captain.
**MattO**
> "Bali Boogie Board" <baliboogiebo...@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1175597691.7...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> > This one's going to be interesting ;-) Gentlemen, start your
> > engines......
>
> Trent Barret when playing for the dragons. He seemed to go ok for NSW /
> Australia though.
Barrett for sure.
**MattO**
>
> Just think who you'd rather have playing for your life. Wally would
> be very close to the top of my short list, along with Mick Cronin,
> Geoff Toovey, Reuben Wiki, Jason Croker, Ricky Stewart, Allan Tongue
> to name a few of the dozens if not hundreds I'd probably pick ahead of
> Johns. Flash talent doesn't impress me a whole lot on its own, but
> sheer guts and determination will do it for me every time, and Wally
> had bags of that.
Mike the reason I rate Baa Baa the best I've seen put on a Bulldogs
jumper is that he would be the first player I would pick when it comes
to playing for your life. There's been many fine others, but Lamb left
no stone unturned when it came to his effort and competitiveness. And
when a break was made you knew Lamb would be ready and following the
play.
As for Wally Lewis. The best player I've seen. His ability to control
and dominate was unbelievable. My only criticism of Lewis was that he
never really tested himself on a week-to-week basis. His strength was
being at his peak when the Origin and Tests came along. That's all he
had to look forward too in his career. But it takes a special player
to be ready at the right moment and lift his game when the occasion
calls.
Bunny
"Awesome Bro" <Awsom...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1175768093.1...@e65g2000hsc.googlegroups.com...
As usual you are wrong. The ugliest man ever to lace on a boot was Gavin
Miller. He was so ugly even you wouldn't fuck him.
**MattO**
> On 5 Apr 2007 07:41:11 -0700, "**MattO**" <matt...@rleague.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Apr 5, 8:13 pm, Mike Burke <mbu...@pcug.org.au> wrote:
>
> >> Just think who you'd rather have playing for your life. Wally would
> >> be very close to the top of my short list, along with Mick Cronin,
> >> Geoff Toovey, Reuben Wiki, Jason Croker, Ricky Stewart, Allan Tongue
> >> to name a few of the dozens if not hundreds I'd probably pick ahead of
> >> Johns. Flash talent doesn't impress me a whole lot on its own, but
> >> sheer guts and determination will do it for me every time, and Wally
> >> had bags of that.
>
> >Mike the reason I rate Baa Baa the best I've seen put on a Bulldogs
> >jumper is that he would be the first player I would pick when it comes
> >to playing for your life. There's been many fine others, but Lamb left
> >no stone unturned when it came to his effort and competitiveness. And
> >when a break was made you knew Lamb would be ready and following the
> >play.
>
> champion. Dirty little bastard but a great player and probably the
> best support player I've ever seen. He was uncanny the way he could
> read the game and be where the ball was ready to chime in.
Being at Cheso makes me in the heart of Terry Lamb country. So I am
very biased in my support of him and he's a very down to earth bloke.
He's idolised in Cheso and he's made the people in the area feel good
about themselves. Even though he's been long retired, he does the
Presentation days and the kids are just in awe of him. Someone turned
up in a Magpies jumper and yeah he said Go the Magpies. My trainer who
is a Magpies fan (born after Lamb left them) said my Dad and coach
said you turned down a Test jumper to get married. Would you do it
again? Lamb said in a heart beat as family comes first. He was never
fully forgiven for having the hide to get married ahead of receiving
his first Test jumper and than choosing to be with his kids rather
than away on week long Origin and Test tours.
When he led the Bulldogs to the 1995 Grand Final and even in the years
of 1991-95 he was regarded as a champion. Now he's just another
player. Brain dead Geyer interviewed Matthew Johns about the best 5/8
he played against and Geyer mentioned Daley, Fittler, Walters, Lyons
and Florimo as the best he would have played against. Johns said they
were all good but none of them compared to Lamb who was by far his
best opponent. Geyer was left gobsmacked.
> It's interesting that. Wally copped a lot of flak from the brain-dead
> sports media in Sydney who never forgave him for not coming to Sydney.
> But why should he? He really had nothing left to prove - he'd done
> the best players NSW could throw at him like the proverbial dinner,
> and I believe he had family business responsibilities in Brisbane.
>
> Every other Queenslander who came to Sydney to play adapted not only
> to the pace of the Sydney competition, but they did so while living in
> enemy territory a long, long way from their support network. The mob
> who came down with Wayne Bennett to the Raiders became the stuff of
> legend, and there's no reason to think that Lewis wouldn't have done
> the same if he'd come down. About the only player I can think of who
> didn't live up to his representative form in the Sydney comp was Bob
> Lindner, and two broken legs probably had a lot to do with that.
I'm one of the few Sydney-siders who respected and admired Lewis. He
was a champion. I just wish he tested himself in Sydney on a week-to-
week basis to see just how great he was. I recently picked up some
RLW's and they did a nice article in 1986 on Lewis, Mortimer and
Sterling about the influence they had on the 1980's. It was when
Wynnum, Canterbury and Parramatta were pushing for Premierships and
how those three dominated that decade. It would have been nice to
Lewis against the Turvey's, Sterlo's, Baa's and Bert's on a weekly
basis.
As for Lindner. He was the current Test lock when the Eels signed him,
yet he was complete insignificance and didn't even compare to Ray
Price. Although Lindner was very lucky to be Test lock at the time.
His broken legs happened when at Wests in 1991.
There were more than just Lindner who didn't do well in Sydney. Chris
Close and Dave Brown were two prime examples.
Wally Lewis is the best player I've seen. His ability to control the
game and inspire his side was legendary. His ability as captain was
something else. Not the complete package as a captain, but on that
field he was top of the list.
Another under-rated player would be Allan Langer. I rate him above
Johns, yet he's another halfback who is barely heard in all the
admiration for Johns and Sterling - both players Langer was far
superior than.
My top five players would be:
1 Lewis
2 Meninga
3 Clyde
4 Lamb
5 Langer
In an article I did recently on Rleague, I rated Meninga as the best
signing a Club has ever made. He put Rugby League on the map in the
ACT and he did more for the expansion of the code than any other
player or official or decision has ever done. Meninga gave the ACT
instant profile and his ability to drag in players to the Raiders was
legendary. Canberra hasn't been the same before or since Meninga's
time there. A real giant of the game and should be an Immortal.
I did 1-3 great signings each club made and Lazarus got two mentions.
I made my one and only criticism of Peter Moore in that article.
**MattO**
>
> > I didn't follow the Sydney comp that closely, so I really only saw
> > Price play a dozen odd games, mostly Tests, but from my recollection
> > he shouldered a pretty decent load. Being the ugliest man to ever lace
> > on a boot - now there's another argument - didn't do him any harm
> > either.
>
> > AB
>
> As usual you are wrong. The ugliest man ever to lace on a boot was Gavin
Paul Doolan.
Fish Womper
wrote:
>On Thu, 5 Apr 2007 17:57:10 +1000, "georgiarose"
><georg...@yahoo.com.au> wrote:
>
>>I saw him plenty. Don't get me wrong - he was a good player and could read
>>the game well and was a great captain. But I could never understand the way
>>people have boned up about him over the years. To me, he never possessed
>>the raw talent of an Andrew Johns or Brett Kenny et al. More similar to a
>>Jason Taylor in my opinion. An excellent football mind, but not overflowing
>>with ability.
>>
>Which says about all anyone needs to say about him. Not
>extraordinarily gifted but able to lead from the front through thick
>and thin. The thing that Wally Lewis had to a degree which few other
>Australian footballers have ever matched is absolute, unqualified
>respect as much from his opposition as from his own team. Johns has
>precious little in that department., although he has more natural
>talent in his little finger than Wally Lewis ever had.
>
>Just think who you'd rather have playing for your life. Wally would
>be very close to the top of my short list, along with Mick Cronin,
>Geoff Toovey, Reuben Wiki, Jason Croker, Ricky Stewart, Allan Tongue
>to name a few of the dozens if not hundreds I'd probably pick ahead of
>Johns. Flash talent doesn't impress me a whole lot on its own, but
>sheer guts and determination will do it for me every time, and Wally
>had bags of that.
I too think Lewis was overrated. Of course he was a great player,
strong, determined and all that but he was also a selfish player at
times. International careers floundered because players who had been
selected for their abilities to create scoring opportunities were
instructed not to play their natural game, but just to feed the ball
to Lewis all day long. Greg Alexander was one such player. Supremely
talented, and with achievements in club colours the equal of just
about anyone, he did not combine well with Lewis because it was the
latter who was expected to do all the playmaking. As a result
Alexander quickly found himself out of the Australian side, with the
likes of Des Hasler selected for their workrates, this being more in
accordance with Lewis's style of play, ie having to be fed the ball
EVERY play. Any half could do that so you might as well have a
terrier-style halfback rather than a creative one.
fish
>
>Mique
Bunny
"Mike Burke" <mbu...@pcug.org.au> wrote in message
news:t7kb13du65o5gfrdv...@4ax.com...
>
Brett Dallas has a disturbing head as well.
Oswald P Wrong
>This one's going to be interesting ;-) Gentlemen, start your
>engines......
GW Bush.
- - -
FHM deputy editor Ben Smithurst told Herald on Sunday that "it wouldn't be the first time" Australia had stolen something from New Zealand.
"Anytime New Zealand has anyone successful, we steal them away," Smithurst said.
Geraint Vincent }:c{»
Lesley Vainikolo.
Oswald P Wrong
>> AB
>>
>
>As usual you are wrong. The ugliest man ever to lace on a boot was Gavin
>Miller. He was so ugly even you wouldn't fuck him.
:-)
Fish Womper
wrote:
>On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 02:38:33 GMT, x@x.x (Fish Womper) wrote:
>
>>I too think Lewis was overrated. Of course he was a great player,
>>strong, determined and all that but he was also a selfish player at
>>times. International careers floundered because players who had been
>>selected for their abilities to create scoring opportunities were
>>instructed not to play their natural game, but just to feed the ball
>>to Lewis all day long. Greg Alexander was one such player. Supremely
>>talented, and with achievements in club colours the equal of just
>>about anyone, he did not combine well with Lewis because it was the
>>latter who was expected to do all the playmaking. As a result
>>Alexander quickly found himself out of the Australian side, with the
>>likes of Des Hasler selected for their workrates, this being more in
>>accordance with Lewis's style of play, ie having to be fed the ball
>>EVERY play. Any half could do that so you might as well have a
>>terrier-style halfback rather than a creative one.
>
>I see nothing wrong with that. Alexander was good, but not great, and
>if he couldn't combine with Lewis that was his fault, not Wally's.
>It's a bit silly picking two play makers and letting them do their own
>thing. Wally was the senior player, and the captain, and it was up to
>Alexander to adjust, not him.
>
>Mique
I don't think its as simple as just saying a new player in a team,
particularly an international team, has to fit in with an established
player, ie throw him the ball all the time. A good coach would find a
way of getting the best from all of them, work plays involving not
just the established champion, but the new boy as well. At the time
(we're talking first half of Alexander;'s career here, and the latter
years of Wally's), Alexander wasn't really known as much of a
playmaker although that would come later. He was more like a Benji
Marshall, able to do things no other player could do, and every bit as
twinkle-toed as Benji at his best. He was much much more than just a
good player, easily the finest player Penrith have produced, and there
have been some good ones. More might have been done to accomodate his
style of play in representative football, but instead they dumped him
after half a game. He would make more of a fist of it in the early
90's but never became a fixture in rep teams.
fish
Awesome Bro
Alfie, Mal and Geno didn't appear to be repressed by playing with
Wally. Sterling, Kenny, Elias, Geyer, etc revelled in playing against
him.
History tends to record that Alexander had at least one brilliant club
season with Penrith - Dally M no less - but never left a mark at rep
level. Whenever his disappointingly unfulfilled career is quoted it's
always annotated with reference to his brother's death, and his
defection across the Tasman.
So let's do the right thing here, and blame the Kiwis. The Kiwis
dunnit, sir.
AB
Awesome Bro
> Wally Lewis is the best player I've seen. His ability to control the
> game and inspire his side was legendary. His ability as captain was
> something else. Not the complete package as a captain, but on that
> field he was top of the list.
True, when you use Wally as the benchmark, it's hard to think of a
contemporary who even qualifies as a captain.
> Another under-rated player would be Allan Langer. I rate him above
>> Johns, yet he's another halfback who is barely heard in all the
> admiration for Johns and Sterling - both players Langer was far
> superior than.
I don't think any Queenslander under-rates Alfie. He, like Wally, was
the focus of every game he played, but he was also a frustrating
playmaker. I couldn't recount the number of times he dudded a chip
ahead instead of passing to his star-studded backline, and his ball
service as a half was surprisingly lob-like. So in comparing halves of
that era, it depends on your criteria. Stewart, Johns, Langer and
Sterling could all field claims to be the best half-backs of our
generation. Stewart for his kicking game and confidence, Johns for his
bullet pass, hands and allround skill set, Langer for his individual
brilliance, guile and short kicking, and Sterling because he set the
standard which preceded them.
> In an article I did recently on Rleague, I rated Meninga as the best
> signing a Club has ever made. He put Rugby League on the map in the
> ACT and he did more for the expansion of the code than any other
> player or official or decision has ever done. Meninga gave the ACT
> instant profile and his ability to drag in players to the Raiders was
> legendary. Canberra hasn't been the same before or since Meninga's
> time there.
Who can forget his half-time locker room spray in his debut as Origin
captain?
>A real giant of the game and should be an Immortal.
And perhaps the greatest QLD coach of all time? It's not impossible.
AB
Awesome Bro
> Just as Michael Phelps clearly deserves to be awarded the title of
> Greatest Swimmer of All Time in History (as Rabs and the other Nine
> Nongs would have it), it is tempting to concede that a genuine
> champion player of this modern Rugby League era should qualify as the
> Greatest Player of All Time. But, IMHO, for all his skills, Johns
> ain't he. His temperament is wrong, and it's a great shame that
> somebody didn't get hold of him when he was young, take him around the
> back of the sheds and, instead of patting him on the back and telling
> him how good he was, have a little whisper in his ear about the need
> to lead and thump him until the message sank in. When guys like Brett
> Kenny were going around, nobody ever suggested that he ought to be
> given the captaincy of the Eels just because he was (at some stage or
> another) probably the greatest player in the team. He was simply not
> officer material, and everyone knew it. Johns has also proven that he
> not officer material but, unfortunately, they found out the hard way.
Agree completely. And for me, the same criticism applies to Ricky
Ponting, yet despite all his idiotic misdemeanors, not Shane Warne.
AB
Bunny
You might be onto something. He tried to become a New Zealander but just
wasn't up to it. He also shouldn't buy his hair dye from Aldi.
Bunny
Shane was just being Australian
Awesome Bro
> "Awesome Bro" <Awsome....@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:1175850209....@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> > On Apr 6, 10:25 am, x...@x.x (Fish Womper) wrote:
> >> On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 05:40:12 GMT, Mike Burke <mbu...@pcug.org.au>
> >> wrote:
> > History tends to record that Alexander had at least one brilliant club
> > season with Penrith - Dally M no less - but never left a mark at rep
> > level. Whenever his disappointingly unfulfilled career is quoted it's
> > always annotated with reference to his brother's death, and his
> > defection across the Tasman.
>
> > So let's do the right thing here, and blame the Kiwis. The Kiwis
> > dunnit, sir.
>
> > AB
>
> You might be onto something. He tried to become a New Zealander
Wow, he must've really been down in the dumps.
AB
Bunny
That'd be where you like to put your tongue, wouldn't it? Down into other
men's dumpers?
Oswald P Wrong
Sounds like The World's Softest Player Andrew Johns has finally
realised he isn't up to the big time.
Fair enough too, he's called in sick for work more often than a koalan
steet walker has had herpes.
Awesome Bro
<ossiepwr...@spamawayexposures.co.nz> wrote:
> Sounds like The World's Softest Player
Speaking of which, I see Sonny Bill went down again. Think he'll still
be around for the Anzac Test? Big ask I know.
AB
Fish Womper
wrote:
>On Fri, 06 Apr 2007 08:25:49 GMT, x@x.x (Fish Womper) wrote:
>
>>I don't think its as simple as just saying a new player in a team,
>>particularly an international team, has to fit in with an established
>>player, ie throw him the ball all the time. A good coach would find a
>>way of getting the best from all of them, work plays involving not
>>just the established champion, but the new boy as well. At the time
>>(we're talking first half of Alexander;'s career here, and the latter
>>years of Wally's), Alexander wasn't really known as much of a
>>playmaker although that would come later. He was more like a Benji
>>Marshall, able to do things no other player could do, and every bit as
>>twinkle-toed as Benji at his best. He was much much more than just a
>>good player, easily the finest player Penrith have produced, and there
>>have been some good ones. More might have been done to accomodate his
>>style of play in representative football, but instead they dumped him
>>after half a game. He would make more of a fist of it in the early
>>90's but never became a fixture in rep teams.
>>
>I think that was more of a function of the competition around at the
>time - aggravated by the perennial interstate politics, of course. it
>might also have had a bit to do with the fact that at that stage of
>his career, Penrith were still in their Chocolate Soldier phase.
>
>Whatever, you can't fairly blame Lewis for Alexander's career path or
>lack of it.
A element of truth in this. Penrith's rise was fairly short lived-
from 88 to 91 at best. And he was vying for the most competitive
position on the field.
fish
>
>Mique
Fish Womper
>
>History tends to record that Alexander had at least one brilliant club
>season with Penrith - Dally M no less - but never left a mark at rep
>level. Whenever his disappointingly unfulfilled career is quoted it's
>always annotated with reference to his brother's death, and his
>defection across the Tasman.
Of all the years he was at Penrith the only real lapse was in 1986/87,
when he was recovering from having his eye near torn out of his head
by Steve Linnane, and understandably after Ben's death which cruelled
the side's premiership defence. After returning from NZ he was a bit
injury prone but apart from that it was all good all the way from 84
until '99. Even up to his retirement I still recall how he lifted his
team. I seem to recall that the Warriors were pretty happy with his
contribution at fullback, and he was the Auckland captain for much of
1996.
fish
Coxy
> On Apr 5, 5:57 pm, "Hammer" <ham...@time.com> wrote:
>
> > "Bali Boogie Board" <baliboogiebo...@hotmail.com> wrote in messagenews:1175597691.7...@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...
>
> > > This one's going to be interesting ;-) Gentlemen, start your
> > > engines......
>
> > Australia though.
>
> Barrett for sure.
Dragons since the Illawarra takeover all seem to get extremely
overrated. Ryles and Bailey - the alleged best front row combination
in the game, which I think was on the park together for about 10 games
in 3 years.
Cooper - please.
Gasnier - please. And those two were the "best centre combination in
the game".
Barrett - lol.
Creagh - lol.
It seems to be a trend. Play for the Dragons, get raps.
Ironically the one player at the Dragons who is truly admirable can't
seem to break it for a NSW or Australian spot - Dean Young.
kenh...@hotmail.com
> > On Tue, 03 Apr 2007 11:42:52 GMT, Mike Burke <mbu...@pcug.org.au>
> > wrote:
>
> > >Of all time? Big ask. I'll limit my pick to the MattyO system, ie my
> > >lifetime - post-1940.
>
> Good to see I'm still remembered.
>
> This is a tough one and seriously tough.
>
> I would have said Brad Fittler but his impact at the Roosters has been
> felt more since he retired than he was playing. The Roosters
> recruitment and retention policy has been diabolical since making the
> 2004 Grand Final. Outlaying big sums for Roberts, Firman, Monaghan,
> Anasta, Harrison and Myles has been a huge mistake. They had to stop
> buying for the sake of buying and instead look to retain the likes of
> Crocker, Cusack and Morley first and foremost.
>
> Most over-rated team is the Roosters. I mean Politis comes out and
> says there's more pressure because you're at the Roosters and they've
> only won one clayton's NRL assisted competition in the last 30 years.
>
> Peter Sterling I believe was over-rated. A fine player, but I for one
> believed he fed off Cronin, Price and Kenny more than they fed off
> him. Being a media darling helped him. I remember many times Mortimer
> or Lamb (depending who was halfback) embarrassed Sterlo in club games.
>
> As for the most over-rated. Well too tough a question as there's so
> many options.
>
> I will go out on a limb and say someone. Shaun Edwards. Certainly
> Shaun Edwards. They all pumped him up as a champion over in England
> and all he achieved was knocking Brad Clyde's head off, nothing more.
>
> As for the most under-rated is easy to say to the point where I won't
> even mention the name.
Funnily enough I always thought that Sterlo was the best player in
Australia for most of the 80s in an era of some truly great players.
Better than Lewis, Kenny, Turvey and the rest.
The Parra side of the early 80s revolved around him rather than the
other way around.
He nearly always took the right option.
I don't recall Mortimer or Lamb ever embarrassing him.
Most overrated was Brett Mullins. A classic example of an average
player made to look great by those around him
Terry Lamb was a dirty bastard. If it wasn't for the fact that he was
a doggie, I doubt if you'd have much time for him
Higgs
Geraint Vincent }:c{»
>
> Most overrated was Brett Mullins. A classic example of an average
> player made to look great by those around him
Those around him must have run NFL style blocks for those long range tries
he scored, eh? Was still a toss though.
Geraint Vincent }:c{»
> This one's going to be interesting ;-) Gentlemen, start your
> engines......
Apple iPod.
alvey
> This one's going to be interesting ;-) Gentlemen, start your
> engines......
Lazy Bastard of Brisbane writes:
Did SBW get a vote?
alvey
Awesome Bro
SBW is the new Andrew Johns. Loads of potential, but rarely displayed.
Career set to be marred by injury and rumours of code-defection. He'll
then be overpaid at the expense of the club, and retire soon after.
AB