Mork 'the Dork' Dingbat
pedro
what he believes himself? He never offers any positive alternative
views. But any fool can do that.. and he is a fool! He won't say what he
does believe, because then others would be able to criticise his
beliefs. It would make a refreshing change tho wouldn't it.
--
rgds,
Pete.
-----
http://pedro.spyw.com
'Danger! Volvo driver spotted wearing a hat!'
applegas
@news.optusnet.com.au:
> Notice how that Mork is always bashing others beliefs, but never says
> what he believes himself? He never offers any positive alternative
> views. But any fool can do that.. and he is a fool! He won't say what he
> does believe, because then others would be able to criticise his
> beliefs. It would make a refreshing change tho wouldn't it.
>
And yet he has stated what he believes. He's actually a very intelligent
man.
I'm sure I've probably read it before, but what do you believe? Sorry, I
don't remember.
:)
Sarah
Diana
"pedro" <pe...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:412bf4c7$0$2036$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Actually Mark on many occasions states what his beliefs
are. If you are truly interested I believe it is in
Google. I also know at one time it was on Matt's and
Feather's web page.
Diana
Mark T
> Actually Mark on many occasions states what his >beliefs are.
Yep ... especially if you ask nicely.
> If you are truly interested I believe it is in
> Google. I also know at one time it was on Matt's and
> Feather's web page.
Yep. Summary may be viewed at
http://www.alt-christianlife.com/testimonials/mark_tindall.htm
Ben Mitts
> "pedro" <pe...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:412bf4c7$0$2036$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
>>Notice how that Mork is always bashing others
>
> beliefs, but never says
>
>>what he believes himself? He never offers any
>
> positive alternative
>
>>views. But any fool can do that.. and he is a fool!
>
> He won't say what he
>
>>does believe, because then others would be able to
>
> criticise his
>
>>beliefs. It would make a refreshing change tho
>
> wouldn't it.
>
>>--
>>rgds,
>>
>>Pete.
>>-----
>>http://pedro.spyw.com
>>'Danger! Volvo driver spotted wearing a hat!'
Here is one:
"For me Jesus is human and not divine. He is the very human
finite Christ and my Boss but not the infinite One God. Jesus is
human and therefore fallible and imperfect whereas God is the
Ground of all being and therefore infallible and perfect.
--
May God continue to richly Bless you!
Peace and Love in The Name of Jesus Christ!
Sincerely,
Ben mitts
From The Word of God: And as Moses lifted up the serpent
in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted
up; that whoever believes may in Him have eternal life."
Similarly, God so loved the world, that He gave His only
begotten Son, that who ever believes in Him should not
perish, but Have eternal life.
Diana
news:412C0306...@comcast.net...
Ben I didn't write any of this as Pedro did. If you are
trying to accuse me of thinking Jesus is only human
then you are wrong and need to prove it. In fact if
your whole paragraph is directed at me you really need
to prove it as I do not have those beliefs and you are
bearing false witness about me and I have no clue why.
Diana
pedro
> "Diana" wrote:
>
>>Actually Mark on many occasions states what his >beliefs are.
>
> Yep ... especially if you ask nicely.
So I should ask nicely to someone who is rude, abusive, and insulting to
me? Oh, that's a good one. ALL HAIL POPE MORK!!
>>If you are truly interested I believe it is in
>>Google. I also know at one time it was on Matt's and
>>Feather's web page.
>
> Yep. Summary may be viewed at
> http://www.alt-christianlife.com/testimonials/mark_tindall.htm
--
rgds,
Pete.
-----
http://pedro.spyw.com
'Put "eat chocolate" on your list of things to do today. That way, at
least you'll get one thing done'
pedro
> "Diana" wrote:
>
>>Actually Mark on many occasions states what his >beliefs are.
>
> Yep ... especially if you ask nicely.
So I should ask nicely of someone who is rude, abusive, and insulting to
me? Oh, that's a good one. ALL HAIL POPE MORK!!
>>If you are truly interested I believe it is in
>>Google. I also know at one time it was on Matt's and
>>Feather's web page.
>
> Yep. Summary may be viewed at
> http://www.alt-christianlife.com/testimonials/mark_tindall.htm
>
--
rgds,
Pete.
-----
http://pedro.spyw.com
pedro
Hi Diana. The point at issue, at least with me, is not that he does not
state his beliefs somewhere. It is that he criticises the beliefs of
others here, and lambastes, and ridicules them, without offering any
viable alternatives. If you tell someone that what they believe is
wrong, you are morally obliged to give reasons for saying so. Remember
that Mark claims to be a christian. He is not entitled to attack the
basic fundamental beliefs of Christians, and still claim to be one. He
is trying to reinvent Christianity on his own terms.
Also.. I mean to follow up my post about nutrition. I keep forgetting
tho. :(
--
rgds,
Pete.
-----
http://pedro.spyw.com
'I'm not tense, just terribly, terribly alert'
::: vera :::
pedro <pe...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> Mark T wrote:
>
>> "Diana" wrote:
>>
>>> Actually Mark on many occasions states what his >beliefs are.
>>
>> Yep ... especially if you ask nicely.
>
> So I should ask nicely to someone who is rude, abusive, and insulting
> to me? Oh, that's a good one. ALL HAIL POPE MORK!!
Yes, let us all kiss his dirty feet!!! LOL
Love to you, Your Majesty Pedro!!!
Funny, how other Christians try to convince you of the goosness in the
heresy of Morkie.
::: vera :::
--
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::
::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::
::: vera :::
Diana <(H)(U)(G)(S)fr...@Diana.com> wrote:
Deat Diana,
please stop supporting Mark Tindall as a Christian. He is surely no
Christian, but deceives you.
Why do you always defend blasphemers?
He hates Jesus. Is that not enough for you?
Love and Peace to you,
Ben Mitts
This was wrong of me Diana! I used a shoddy
way to give Pedro some info. Forgive me!
Ben Mitts
I think they call it Post-Modernism!
If one believes in this theory they
automatically get to re-invent The
Word of God, then beat up on the
Christian beliefs of others!
Bradley
Do you even know what post-modernism is????
--
regards,
Bradley
Ben Mitts
Why do you ask?
Bradley
> Bradley wrote:
>> "Ben Mitts" <bmit...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> news:412C2EC4...@comcast.net
>>> I think they call it Post-Modernism!
>>> If one believes in this theory they
>>> automatically get to re-invent The
>>> Word of God, then beat up on the
>>> Christian beliefs of others!
>>
>>
>> Do you even know what post-modernism is????
>
> Why do you ask?
Because it doesn't seem apparent from your comments.
--
regards,
Bradley
::: vera :::
Bradley <spam...@blocked.com> wrote:
> "Ben Mitts" <bmit...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:412C4BC...@comcast.net
>> Bradley wrote:
>>> "Ben Mitts" <bmit...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>> news:412C2EC4...@comcast.net
> <snip>
>>>> I think they call it Post-Modernism!
>>>> If one believes in this theory they
>>>> automatically get to re-invent The
>>>> Word of God, then beat up on the
>>>> Christian beliefs of others!
>>>
>>>
>>> Do you even know what post-modernism is????
>>
>> Why do you ask?
>
> Because it doesn't seem apparent from your comments.
Cynical as always... but only towards Christian believers. Weird...
Blobert!
> what he believes himself? He never offers any positive alternative
> views. But any fool can do that.. and he is a fool! He won't say what he
> does believe, because then others would be able to criticise his
> beliefs. It would make a refreshing change tho wouldn't it.
Pondering the impossible is a pointless mental exercise, my liege!
Blobert!
"applegas" <appl...@NO.SPAM.sunflower.com> wrote in message
news:Xns954FD7EED8B42...@216.168.3.44...
> pedro <pe...@nowhere.com> wrote in news:412bf4c7$0$2036$afc38c87
> @news.optusnet.com.au:
>
> > Notice how that Mork is always bashing others beliefs, but never says
> > what he believes himself? He never offers any positive alternative
> > views. But any fool can do that.. and he is a fool! He won't say what he
> > does believe, because then others would be able to criticise his
> > beliefs. It would make a refreshing change tho wouldn't it.
> >
>
>
> And yet he has stated what he believes.
What he believes is diametrically opposed to the orthodox teachings of
the Christian faith.
> He's actually a very intelligent
> man.
So were Adolf Hitler and Dr. Joseph Mengele. Nazi Germany was the most
educated nation on earth.
Blobert!
> Mark T wrote:
>
> > "Diana" wrote:
> >
> >>Actually Mark on many occasions states what his >beliefs are.
> >
> > Yep ... especially if you ask nicely.
>
> So I should ask nicely of someone who is rude, abusive, and insulting to
> me? Oh, that's a good one. ALL HAIL POPE MORK!!
Hail Pope Mork, Hail Pope Mork, aw, to hail with Pope Mork.......
Blobert!
> Bradley wrote:
> > "Ben Mitts" <bmit...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:412C2EC4...@comcast.net
> >>If one believes in this theory they
> >>automatically get to re-invent The
> >>Word of God, then beat up on the
> >>Christian beliefs of others!
> >
> >
> > Do you even know what post-modernism is????
>
> Why do you ask?
Because you didn't kiss his Daddy's arse.
Blobert!
"::: vera :::" <ver...@acc-growing-deeper.de> wrote in message
news:2p3eulF...@uni-berlin.de...
> In news:412c6270$2...@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com,
> Bradley <spam...@blocked.com> wrote:
> > "Ben Mitts" <bmit...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:412C4BC...@comcast.net
> >> Bradley wrote:
> >>> "Ben Mitts" <bmit...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> >>> news:412C2EC4...@comcast.net
> > <snip>
> >>>> I think they call it Post-Modernism!
> >>>> If one believes in this theory they
> >>>> automatically get to re-invent The
> >>>> Word of God, then beat up on the
> >>>> Christian beliefs of others!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Do you even know what post-modernism is????
> >>
> >> Why do you ask?
> >
> > Because it doesn't seem apparent from your comments.
>
> Cynical as always... but only towards Christian believers. Weird...
Weird; yet, oh so predictable.
::: vera :::
::: vera ::: <ver...@acc-growing-deeper.de> wrote:
> In news:412c1f8d$0$16887$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au,
> pedro <pe...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>> Mark T wrote:
>>
>>> "Diana" wrote:
>>>
>>>> Actually Mark on many occasions states what his >beliefs are.
>>>
>>> Yep ... especially if you ask nicely.
>>
>> So I should ask nicely to someone who is rude, abusive, and insulting
>> to me? Oh, that's a good one. ALL HAIL POPE MORK!!
>
> Yes, let us all kiss his dirty feet!!! LOL
>
> Love to you, Your Majesty Pedro!!!
>
> Funny, how other Christians try to convince you of the goosness in the
> heresy of Morkie.
Hey, I meant "goodness", but "gooseness" might be a nice creation, too...
:-)
>>>> vera :::
>>>> http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::
>>>> http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::
pedro
> In news:2p2n64F...@uni-berlin.de,
> ::: vera ::: <ver...@acc-growing-deeper.de> wrote:
>
>>In news:412c1f8d$0$16887$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au,
>>pedro <pe...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Mark T wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>"Diana" wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Actually Mark on many occasions states what his >beliefs are.
>>>>
>>>>Yep ... especially if you ask nicely.
>>>
>>>So I should ask nicely to someone who is rude, abusive, and insulting
>>>to me? Oh, that's a good one. ALL HAIL POPE MORK!!
>>
>>Yes, let us all kiss his dirty feet!!! LOL
Ewww! Yuk!
>>Love to you, Your Majesty Pedro!!!
Greetings VOTDP, MOP..! :)
>>Funny, how other Christians try to convince you of the goosness in the
>>heresy of Morkie.
>
> Hey, I meant "goodness", but "gooseness" might be a nice creation, too...
Well he is a goose!
> :-)
>
>
>>>>>vera :::
>>>>>http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::
>>>>>http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::
--
rgds,
Pete.
-----
http://pedro.spyw.com
'I'm way too busy to have the nervous breakdown I deserve!'
Feather Forestwalker
> Mark T wrote:
>
> > "Diana" wrote:
> >
> >>Actually Mark on many occasions states what his >beliefs are.
> >
> > Yep ... especially if you ask nicely.
>
> So I should ask nicely of someone who is rude, abusive, and insulting to
> me? Oh, that's a good one. ALL HAIL POPE MORK!!
While I am NOT defending the tactics that Mark uses (and he knows I refuse
to), I will say, that Christians are to love and speak with gentleness and
kindness, even in the face of rudeness.
Matthew 5:
Love for Enemies
43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your
enemy.'
44 But I tell you: Love your enemies enemies, bless those who curse you, do
good to those who hate you and pray for those who persecute you,
45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise
on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the
unrighteous.
46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even
the tax collectors doing that?
47 And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others?
Do not even pagans do that?
48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
Now, while I admit as a fallible human, that we can really never be perfect
this side of the veil, as it were, I do believe that we can put this into
practice in this format of the newsgroups - the major "golden rule,"
"Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." = "Treat people the way
YOU want to be treated."
Matthew 7:12
So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this
sums up the Law and the Prophets.
Luke 6:31
Do to others as you would have them do to you.
Now of course, this does not mean for the Christian, to treat Mark the way
that he is treating them, now, does it?
In a word, no. Turning the other cheek becomes imperative if we are to learn
from whence some of Mark's doctrinal beliefs went astray, as it were. Some
of them are right on the mark, (no pun intended), while a lot of them have
fallen by the wayside into a liberal granular earthen soul, if you will
pardon my attempts at illustration with words - I am thinking of the heart
of soil: one is good, one is rocky, another is shallow. Mark's seems to be,
from every contact I have had with him, quite the mixture of soils.
So, does this mean, that since he's rude and abusive with words, that we, as
Christians, are to be rude and abusive with words right back?
No.
It means we are to "have an answer for every man of the hope that is in us,"
1 Peter 3:
15b Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give
the reason for the hope that you have. ***But do this with gentleness and
respect,***
16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against
your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
No matter how ugly we are treated by ANYONE, we are to "turn the other
cheek," and provide loving, gentle, and respectful words - not react in
kind.
It's hard enough in the real world out here to do that, you know? But in an
online format, it's easier, I think, to "sit on your hands" before typing
something that you or I would later regret. . .
> 'Put "eat chocolate" on your list of things to do today. That way, at
> least you'll get one thing done'
*LOL* I had that on my list yesterday and had weird dreams all night. . .
God bless,
Feather
>
>
Diana
Mark isn't the only one doing what you say. This all
started before he came here by others doing that same
thing. Most of the ones you see not getting along with
Mark are the ones who have put down anyone and everyone
for not having the same beliefs as they do. One day all
these different beliefs will crumble and we will be in
"one accord" and that will be a wonderful day we will
be with the Lord. Looking forward to your nutrition
post also.
Di
Diana
"::: vera :::" <ver...@acc-growing-deeper.de> wrote in
message news:2p2n64F...@uni-berlin.de...
there. Then the lies , slander, backbiting etc starts.
Yes I love Mark because he is Mark. Do I have the same
beliefs? No I don't but I don't choose my friends that
way.
Diana
Diana
"::: vera :::" <ver...@acc-growing-deeper.de> wrote in
message news:2p2nbnF...@uni-berlin.de...
Christian ONLY God knows that. All I told Pedro is that
Mark has posted his stance on his beliefs before. If I
told you not to be friends with Abby because of the
tremendous emotional hurt she has caused me with all
the things she has said and my knowing she has not
tried to discuss the Lord or whatever instead of
flaming me every chance would you stop being her
friend? I doubt it and I won't stop being Marks friend
either. I am not friends with someone because of how
they believe or what church they go to or not. I see
something good in all people some more than others but
none the less I see good in all.
Diana
Diana
Ben You are forgiven :-) I hope life is treating you
good. Take care and be well
Diana
::: vera :::
pedro <pe...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>> vera ::: wrote:
>
>> In news:2p2n64F...@uni-berlin.de,
>>>>> vera ::: <ver...@acc-growing-deeper.de> wrote:
>>
>>> In news:412c1f8d$0$16887$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au,
>>> pedro <pe...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Mark T wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> "Diana" wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Actually Mark on many occasions states what his >beliefs are.
>>>>>
>>>>> Yep ... especially if you ask nicely.
>>>>
>>>> So I should ask nicely to someone who is rude, abusive, and
>>>> insulting to me? Oh, that's a good one. ALL HAIL POPE MORK!!
>>>
>>> Yes, let us all kiss his dirty feet!!! LOL
>
> Ewww! Yuk!
>
>>> Love to you, Your Majesty Pedro!!!
>
> Greetings VOTDP, MOP..! :)
Greetings, MOP...!
What was VOTDP? I have forgotten, your Majesty of POP! Sorry. I regret,
awfully.
>
>>> Funny, how other Christians try to convince you of the goosness in
>>> the heresy of Morkie.
>>
>> Hey, I meant "goodness", but "gooseness" might be a nice creation,
>> too...
>
> Well he is a goose!
>
>> :-)
He is so gooooooooood in his goooooooooooooooooooseness.
And Alice and Bev habe been living next door to him for 25 years - but have
moved away now. :-)
Blobert!
"Diana" <(H)(U)(G)(S)fr...@Diana.com> wrote
> Mark isn't the only one doing what you say. This all
> started before he came here by others doing that same
> thing. Most of the ones you see not getting along with
> Mark are the ones who have put down anyone and everyone
> for not having the same beliefs as they do. One day all
> these different beliefs will crumble and we will be in
> "one accord" and that will be a wonderful day we will
> be with the Lord.
But Mark will not be with the Lord, Diana, as he denies =vehemently= the
deity of Christ. That is a huge no-no.
Blobert!
> Funny how things get read into something that is not
> there. Then the lies , slander, backbiting etc starts.
> Yes I love Mark because he is Mark. Do I have the same
> beliefs? No I don't but I don't choose my friends that
> way.
So you choose blasphemous heretical Christian haters for your friends?
You need to boost your standards a bit, dear.
Blobert!
"Diana" <(H)(U)(G)(S)fr...@Diana.com> wrote in message
news:u82Xc.227859$fv.6...@fe2.columbus.rr.com...
Perhaps you need bifocals.
The enemy of Jesus Christ is my enemy.
Diana
"Blobert!" <OneN...@Under.Blob> wrote in message
news:Tm2Xc.12223$2L3...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
he would not be my friend. However I do not see that.
Where has he said he hates Jesus? Please provide that
if you will so I may read it for myself.
Even you Bob are not taking on the characteristics of
Christ lately with how you treat people so maybe you
could clean up your actions then start with others.
I am hoping to clean up mine as well with the help of
Jesus my Personal Savior.
Diana
::: vera :::
It depends on what you think love is. Sweet sounds do not necessarily mean
love. The devil also speaks in a friendly voice to his victims first. Is
that love?
God himself does not always speak softly, but can be rather sharp if
necessary.
Go and tell Mark Tindall how to behave FIRST! It is not your job to
critisize Mark Tindall's victims.
I told you last year in the chat room, and I can tell you here as well (no,
I am not a cult leader because I told you then!)
Love your neighbour! - That is the Commandment. If you cannot even love your
Brother or Sister enough, how could you love your enemy? ? ?
Well, you tried - but have a look at the bad fruit you got.
God bless you,
::: vera :::
People who bash my Brothers and Sisters are surely not my friends if they do
not stop that.
God's Bless,
::: vera :::
Diana <(H)(U)(G)(S)fr...@Diana.com> wrote:
> "::: vera :::" <ver...@acc-growing-deeper.de> wrote in
> message news:2p2nbnF...@uni-berlin.de...
>> In news:cvTWc.226466$fv.1...@fe2.columbus.rr.com,
>> Diana <(H)(U)(G)(S)fr...@Diana.com> wrote:
>>
>> Deat Diana,
>>
>> please stop supporting Mark Tindall as a Christian. He is surely no
>> Christian, but deceives you.
>>
>> Why do you always defend blasphemers?
>>
>> He hates Jesus. Is that not enough for you?
>>
>> Love and Peace to you,
>>
>>
>>>>> vera :::
>> --
>>>>> http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::
>>>>> http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::
>>
> Vera, Mark is my friend. I do not know if he is a
> Christian ONLY God knows that.
Wrong - I can tell you, too - as it is too obvious, and the silliest idiot
would know that.
I am not willing to discuss that with you - with regards to your health. So
better concentrate on something uplifting.
Love and Peace be yours,
::: vera :::
Are you crazy, Lady?
Neither Donna Kupp nor her husband nor David Matthieu P.P. will ever go to
Heaven if they do not convert! Take that for sure - and from God!
Now stop your silly support of all heretics, will you?
YOu write such a nonsense....
Do you really think that Bob would support the Kupps? - Noway. Bob is a
Child of God. What about you? You have to chose. And go and ask a good
pastor at your church about all of this!!!
::: vera :::
Blobert!
>
> "Blobert!" <OneN...@Under.Blob> wrote in message
> news:Tm2Xc.12223$2L3...@newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> > The enemy of Jesus Christ is my enemy.
> >
> Exactly Bob !! If I saw Mark hated Jesus you are right
> he would not be my friend. However I do not see that.
> Where has he said he hates Jesus? Please provide that
> if you will so I may read it for myself.
Diana, he denies Christ His Deity. He believes in a false Jesus, not the
real Jesus:
Gal 1:6 ś I am amazed that you are so quickly deserting Him who called you
by the grace of Christ, for a different gospel;
Gal 1:7 which is {really} not another; only there are some who are
disturbing you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a
gospel contrary to what we have preached to you, he is to be accursed!
Mark is accursed by God; why do you think Mark hates the Bible so much?
John 3:20 "For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to
the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.
Mark is not a Christian, Diana. It's that simple.
>
> Even you Bob are not taking on the characteristics of
> Christ lately with how you treat people so maybe you
> could clean up your actions then start with others.
F'rinstance?
>
> I am hoping to clean up mine as well with the help of
> Jesus my Personal Savior.
I'm not hoping; I'm counting on it! :-)
Blobert<><
Feather Forestwalker
Of course not. But gentleness and respect mean what, exactly?
Doing unto others as you would have them do unto you means what, exactly?
>
> God himself does not always speak softly, but can be rather sharp if
> necessary.
But we are not God. God is dealing with Mark on His terms, not Mark's, and
yes, He is using several people here - and yet, we are not God, are we?
Calling Mark names like idiot, heretic, etc. does nothing to win him to
Christ Jesus as Lord (AND GOD), but does everything to put a thicker wedge
between you.
>
> Go and tell Mark Tindall how to behave FIRST!
Been there, done that, even "bought the teeshirt," and discovered "it
wasn't."
> It is not your job to
> critisize Mark Tindall's victims.
Victims? Where? I see no victims here, only angry people who cannot handle
the fact that he's being impudent and angry towards them. Mark cannot be
TOLD, nor can YOU. See the dichotomy here? It would be better if we each
treated others with the kind of respect we would like. Treat him the way YOU
want to be treated - do YOU want to be called names? Of course not. Do we
ALWAYS have to be nice and sweet, dripping with honeyed lies? Of course not.
The best we can do, you, me, anyone else who claim Christ Jesus as Lord and
Savior, is to do as HE did - walk as HE walked. Mark's not a money changer
to be thrown from God's temple with whips and turning of the tables; Mark's
a creation of God, someone who, despite what I might think to the contrary,
a man who should be treated with the same thing I would like to be treated
with - respect, love, gentleness and mercy. Go past his harmful words, Vera-
see from whence his pain, his MISPLACED anger, comes from. Why DOES he
direct it mostly at fundamentalist Christians? WHY? Pray for that, really.
>
> I told you last year in the chat room, and I can tell you here as well
(no,
> I am not a cult leader because I told you then!)
I NEVER thought YOU were a cult leader, Vera. In fact, I stood behind you
and supported you, remember?
>
> Love your neighbour! - That is the Commandment. If you cannot even love
your
> Brother or Sister enough, how could you love your enemy? ? ?
Vera, I do not hate you. I DO love you. That's the only reason I decided to
come forward at this point in time. Jesus' Love is not a stinging love; His
Holy Spirit DOES convict and sometimes THAT stings, and YES, the Lord
chastens those Whom He Loves - does that mean you are to chasten me, or I
you? Godly correction, according to Scripture, from brothers and sisters to
brothers and sisters, is to be done in love. My ONLY prayer is that this
post you responded to, had His Love in it and NOT MINE.
>
> Well, you tried - but have a look at the bad fruit you got.
Where? Show me bad fruit from what I did, Vera, show me - because currently,
the Lord is a GOD OF FORGIVENESS and I claim that over ANY "you have bad
fruit" accusations from (even) the brethren.
In HIS Love,
Feather
HeLovesYou
"Feather Forestwalker" <fea...@NOSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:hX1Xc.174$W_5...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Amen Feather. Additionally, Jesus gives us examples of what NOT to do as
well, especially where judging of a man's spiritual and eternal estate is
concerned. One can share Jesus and His love, but the eternal judgment
belongs to only Him.
Matthew 5:21-26 (NLT)
21 "You have heard that the law of Moses says, 'Do not murder. If you
commit murder, you are subject to judgment.'
22 But I say, if you are angry with someone, you are subject to judgment!
If you call someone an idiot, you are in danger of being brought before the
high council. And if you curse someone, you are in danger of the fires of
hell.
23 "So if you are standing before the altar in the Temple, offering a
sacrifice to God, and you suddenly remember that someone has something
against you, 24 leave your sacrifice there beside the altar. Go and be
reconciled to that person. Then come and offer your sacrifice to God. 25
Come to terms quickly with your enemy before it is too late and you are
dragged into court, handed over to an officer, and thrown in jail. 26 I
assure you that you won't be free again until you have paid the last penny.
Gil's Exposition:
but whosoever shall say thou fool, shall be danger of hell fire.
The word "fool" does not signify a man of weak parts, one that is very
ignorant in things natural; this the word Raca imports; but a wicked
reprobate man; in which sense Solomon often uses the word. The Persic
version renders it here "wicked". There is a manifest gradation in the text
from causeless anger in the breast, or reproachful words; and from thence to
a censorious judging of a man's spiritual and eternal estate, which is what
is here condemned. "Thou fool", is, thou wicked man, thou ungodly wretch,
thou graceless creature, whose portion will be eternal damnation. Calling a
man by such names was not allowed of by the Jews themselves, whose rules
are: ==it continues, good reading, but that is the gist of it==
(: Lawrence Meckan :)
Yeah, but what happens when your brothers and sisters are wrong and
committing injustice in the name of Christ ?
What, then ?
Should people just ignore the junk they spew?
lawrence
Bradley
>> Vera, Mark is my friend. I do not know if he is a
>> Christian ONLY God knows that.
> Wrong - I can tell you, too - as it is too obvious, and the silliest
> idiot would know that.
>
> I am not willing to discuss that with you - with regards to your
> health. So better concentrate on something uplifting.
Like calling people idiots?
--
regards,
Bradley
Bradley
> In news:412c6270$2...@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com,>> news:412C4BC...@comcast.net
>> <snip>
>>>>> I think they call it Post-Modernism!
>>>>> If one believes in this theory they
>>>>> automatically get to re-invent The
>>>>> Word of God, then beat up on the
>>>>> Christian beliefs of others!
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Do you even know what post-modernism is????
>>>
>>> Why do you ask?
>>
>> Because it doesn't seem apparent from your comments.
>
> Cynical as always... but only towards Christian believers. Weird...
How is that cynical Vera???
The statement about post-modernism to me indicated the person doesn't
understand it.
--
regards,
Bradley
Bradley
news:hX1Xc.174$W_5...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net
Nicely put Feather... I've been trying to make this point all week.
--
regards,
Bradley
Bradley
>> Funny how things get read into something that is not
>> there. Then the lies , slander, backbiting etc starts.
>> Yes I love Mark because he is Mark. Do I have the same
>> beliefs? No I don't but I don't choose my friends that
>> way.
>>
>> Diana
> People who bash my Brothers and Sisters are surely not my friends if
> they do not stop that.
Vera still does not appear to get the difference between loving people
UNCONDITIONALLY and loving friends. Loving friends is easy but God calls
us to a higher level... to also love our enemies and those that
persecute us.
--
regards,
Bradley
Mark T
> I won't stop being Marks friend
> either. I am not friends with someone because of how
> they believe or what church they go to or not. I see
> something good in all people some more than others but
> none the less I see good in all.
I am also a friends with Diana regardless of what she believes. I'd hate to
have friends that are my clones. it would be boring. Diana is one of the
good fundies like Cal who express their opinion but don't expect everyone to
accept it or burn in hell.
Mark T
> Exactly Bob !! If I saw Mark hated Jesus you are right
> he would not be my friend. However I do not see that.
> Where has he said he hates Jesus? Please provide that
> if you will so I may read it for myself.
I love Jesus as my Lord. Some cannot see the distinction I am making in my
current Christian journey. Since it is not their journey they think it is
evil. they should have their oiwn journey and forget about mine.
Mark T
> >>> I think they call it Post-Modernism!
> >>> If one believes in this theory they
> >>> automatically get to re-invent The
> >>> Word of God, then beat up on the
> >>> Christian beliefs of others!
> >>
> >> Do you even know what post-modernism is????
> >
> > Why do you ask?
>
> Because it doesn't seem apparent from your comments.
It is bloody evident that he has no idea what he is talking about. Ask him
to define it ... that should be a laugh.
Mark T
>Most of the ones you see not getting along with
> Mark are the ones who have put down anyone and >everyone for not having
the same beliefs as they do.
Yep. I welcome those who disagree with me. The others want to chase them
away.
Mark T
> While I am NOT defending the tactics that Mark uses >(and he knows I
refuse to)
... but I still value you as a friend. You are allowed to disagree with me.
> Turning the other cheek becomes imperative if we are >to learn from whence
some of Mark's doctrinal beliefs >went astray, as it were.
They could talk WITH me rather than AT me. If I'm wrong I'll change.
>Mark's seems to be, from every contact I have had with >him, quite the
mixture of soils.
As we all are.
Abby
"Diana" <(H)(U)(G)(S)fr...@Diana.com> wrote in message
Did you really mean to say this?????????
Abbs
Abby
"(: Lawrence Meckan :)" <lme...@SMEEyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:412d1...@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com...
Of course not Larry. Do we ignore ==you==? NO! We set you back on track.
We always tell you when you are wrong. Which is most of the time.
Abbs
Abby
"Blobert!" <OneN...@Under.Blob> wrote in message
>
> "applegas" <appl...@NO.SPAM.sunflower.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns954FD7EED8B42...@216.168.3.44...
> > pedro <pe...@nowhere.com> wrote in news:412bf4c7$0$2036$afc38c87
> > @news.optusnet.com.au:
> >
> > > Notice how that Mork is always bashing others beliefs, but never says
> > > what he believes himself? He never offers any positive alternative
> > > views. But any fool can do that.. and he is a fool! He won't say what
he
> > > does believe, because then others would be able to criticise his
> > > beliefs. It would make a refreshing change tho wouldn't it.
> > >
> >
> >
>
> What he believes is diametrically opposed to the orthodox teachings of
> the Christian faith.
>
> > He's actually a very intelligent
> > man.
>
> So were Adolf Hitler and Dr. Joseph Mengele. Nazi Germany was the most
> educated nation on earth.
And Satan is pretty smart too. Stick that up your gas bag..............hehe
Abbs
(: Lawrence Meckan :)
ROTFLMAO. :-P
The last time you set me "back on track" you called me an idiot for me
pointing out the truth!
The time before that you plonked Bradley for him speaking the truth
about me.
Your track record isn't pretty, let alone consistent.
> We always tell you when you are wrong. Which is most of the time.
That's part of the problem!
You fail to see that what I'm actually saying is right.
You create hell on earth for people around you simply because you refuse
to comprehend the truth.
If you want people to burn in hell so badly, perhaps it would be wise
that you become Hell's tour guide?
lawrence
Abby
"(: Lawrence Meckan :)" <lme...@SMEEyahoo.com> wrote in message
as God's Holy Word without error. The God you lift up isn't capable of
inspiring men to write His Holy Word.
I am saved ....called of God the creator and Saviour of the world. He chose
me. I am one of the elect. I am so thankful to Him for His mercy and
faithfulness.
You on the other hand live in a fantasy along with S2me. Some New Age
feel good, its all about me world. Your God can't even provide the world
with His accuracy according to you. Well MY GOD CAN!
And BTW- Bwadley is still plonked. I let you out for a day and you are
still blaspheming God. You are a sad bitter man Larry. Very sad indeed.
Abby
Abby
"Diana" <(H)(U)(G)(S)fr...@Diana.com> wrote in message
>
Diana...first you said:
> Exactly Bob !! If I saw Mark hated Jesus you are right
> he would not be my friend.
Then you said:
I won't stop being Marks friend
either. I am not friends with someone because of how
they believe or what church they go to or not....
Which is it? You are not consistent.
Abby
applegas
news:KJudnRi3ZdV...@bright.net:
That would be funny if it weren't so sad. That's all you can do, Abby.
Just call me names.
I will keep praying for you.
Sarah
Bradley
news:YvOdnbWD3an...@bright.net
<snip>
> Your ==are==an idiot with zero integrity. You don't even believe the
> Bible as God's Holy Word without error.
Read my post on ARC about "Billy Graham and the Bible". Once can still
come to the decision, by faith, that the Bible is God's inspired and
authorative word _despite_ what they don't understand, despite their
doubts and despite ay problems with it.
> The God you lift up isn't
> capable of inspiring men to write His Holy Word.
Lawrence never said the writers of the Gospels were not inspired.
> I am saved ....called of God the creator and Saviour of the world.
Then act like it?
> He chose me. I am one of the elect. I am so thankful to Him for His
> mercy and faithfulness.
Then act like it?
> You on the other hand live in a fantasy along with S2me. Some New Age
> feel good, its all about me world. Your God can't even provide the
> world with His accuracy according to you. Well MY GOD CAN!
Lawrence exhibits no New Age thinking in his posts.
> And BTW- Bwadley is still plonked.
Fantastic!
<snip>
--
regards,
Bradley
applegas
news:TT%Wc.3419$Y%3.3...@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net:
>
> "applegas" <appl...@NO.SPAM.sunflower.com> wrote in message
> news:Xns954FD7EED8B42...@216.168.3.44...
>> pedro <pe...@nowhere.com> wrote in news:412bf4c7$0$2036$afc38c87
>> @news.optusnet.com.au:
>>
>> > Notice how that Mork is always bashing others beliefs, but never
>> > says what he believes himself? He never offers any positive
>> > alternative views. But any fool can do that.. and he is a fool! He
>> > won't say what he does believe, because then others would be able
>> > to criticise his beliefs. It would make a refreshing change tho
>> > wouldn't it.
>> >
>>
>>
>> And yet he has stated what he believes.
>
> What he believes is diametrically opposed to the orthodox
> teachings of
> the Christian faith.
>
That is your opinion. And I praise God that you are able to share that
opinion. That we are ALL able to share our opinions.
You are all fighting so hard against Mark. You are spending SO much
energy to fight him.
What about JW's or Mormons or Christian Scientists...Do you totally agree
with everything they are teaching?
NO?
Well, they are probably converting more people to their way of thinking
than Mark is here.
Most people regard him as a troll and don't even read him. The majority
of people reading him now are reading him because of titles like "Mork
'the Dork' Dingbat". They see controversy and flock to it like white on
rice.
Those of us who have taken the time to actually conversate with him
understand him a bit more.
But, I should know that I'm wasting my time here.
>> He's actually a very intelligent
>> man.
>
> So were Adolf Hitler and Dr. Joseph Mengele. Nazi Germany was the
> most
> educated nation on earth.
>
>
>
Comparing Mark to Hitler, are we? Run out of other insults?
I will keep praying for you, Bob. I do hope you are well.
Sarah
(: Lawrence Meckan :)
I practise what I preach. if I say I'm going to do something, I do it.
> You don't even believe the Bible as God's Holy Word without error.
I don't need to believe it as such to be saved, Abby dearest. :-)
Salvation is way, way, way more important than believing a written book
is inerrant.
> The God you lift up isn't capable of inspiring men to write His Holy Word.
Actually, I do believe God INSPIRED men to write about Him. I have never
ditched 2 Tim 3:16. You may think I have, but that again, shows how far
you've departed from listening to the truth people bring and replacing
it with your negative spin about them..
I don't believe that makes men's words about God, God's "Holy Word"
> I am saved ....called of God the creator and Saviour of the world. He chose
> me. I am one of the elect. I am so thankful to Him for His mercy and
> faithfulness.
I am saved too. There is this thing called grace, so no man or woman may
boast of how far they've come, how much more special or power-wielding
they are than the next guy or gal, or how much doctrine they have..
> You on the other hand live in a fantasy along with S2me. Some New Age
> feel good, its all about me world. Your God can't even provide the world
> with His accuracy according to you. Well MY GOD CAN!
Tell me:
Is God more concerned with the salvation of man, or with inerrancy?
> And BTW- Bwadley is still plonked. I let you out for a day and you are
> still blaspheming God. You are a sad bitter man Larry. Very sad indeed.
I'm not blaspheming God.
God is, was and always will be perfect.
God IS NOT and NEVER will be the Bible, and the Bible itself isn't God's
autobiography!
You are sure trigger happy in your anger!
lawrence
Roy Mock
Hi Abby.
Despite our differences with Diana, I wonder if we could be a little gentle
in her period of grief.
A close friend of mine just lost her dad 2 weeks ago and is not coping with
it well, thinking that some of her friends are not giving her enough
support. She's not thinking clearly since the death and is exhibiting
irrational tendencies.
Not that Diane is that bad; but I feel we could be a little supportive in
her time of need.
At least we can uphold her in prayer.
On that Day, may our names will be found in that Book Of Life.
"Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, and the truth, and the life, no one
comes to the Father, but by me" John 14: 6.
Cheers.
Mark T
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What is POOP?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Principality of Obnoxious Poopers (aka collectively as POOP) including Vera,
Abby, Bob, Pedro, Tom, Christine, etc
AKA
- Venomous Vera, Vera 666, The Nazi, Plonk Bottle Washer
- scAbby, Obnoxious Abby, Juvenile Jeanutter
- Boring Belligerent Bob, Boob, bo...@bob.bob, Tim Tam Security Guard
- The Pedrophile, Thick as a Brick
- Deadmouse, Mr Hankin the Christmas Poo
- Trew Kristyun Krusteen
They are
- Trew Kristyuns
- funnyMENTALists
- Grizian thugs
- Pedrophiles
- Poopers
These are characterised by one or more of the following: an extreme lack of
rationality, fondness of logical fallacies, repeated use of emotional
appeals, rigid adherence to Bronze Age mythology, endorsement of
pseudoscientific nonsense, opposition to the First Amendment, bigotry and
discriminatory attitudes towards minority groups, belief that certain
children's media is the work of Satan, and propensity to post Bible verses
instead of valid argument.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What's wrong with POOP?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They appear to be as happy as if they were in their right minds.
They have the following unfortunate features:
- a distrust and fear of freedom
- a belief in the importance of authority and in controlling what people
believe
- a corresponding preference for obedience rather than love
- a desire to give people what they want rather than the truth
- a refusal to allow themselves to be in the least disconcerted when
confronted with the true nature of their fundamentalist religion
- a readiness to persecute and exclude anyone who is of a different
persuasion.
They prefer authority, obedience, and conformity over freedom, truth, and
dissent.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Are POOP part of the Griz cult?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes. Key Characteristics of the Griz cult are [adapted from Joanne Ruhland
1995]:
- Content Which Is Authoritarian
- Indoctrinates / clones
- Unquestioning obedience / Leaders do not discuss questions
- Love and loyalty are the bottom line
- Indoctrination /Leaders' conclusions must be accepted.
- Emphasis on uniformity
- Elitist / accepts SOME Christians
- Hidden agenda
- Manipulates
- Leaders "lord" it over the flock
- Results in conformity, rigidity
- Allows one avenue of service ... serving their group
- Individual is responsible to leaders
- Leaders tell individual what God's will is
- Analytical thinking hindered
- Simplistic approach to life
- Pick your own bible verse to lead you / Choices must conform to leaders'
dictates, leaders' approval
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How do POOP forgive those who sin against
them?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
The bible says in Matthew 18:21-22 " Then Peter came and said to Him, "Lord,
how often shall my brother sin against me and I forgive him? Up to seven
times?" Jesus said to him, "I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up
to seventy times seven.
So if someone sins against POOP they make sure
they follow this verse exactly and keep a ....
TREW KRISTYUN FORGIVEN SIN TALLY
70 times 7 minus 1 for today = 489 times left ...and counting.
That way POOP know exactly when they can hit
others with their steel encased KJV bible on the other cheek without
sinning.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How does one translate from POOPian Trew Kristyun to Plain English?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
You are only political - You want to have rational, logical and intelligent
discussions
You are a heretic - I don't agree with you
You are satan - I *really* don't agree with you
You support heretics - You are a friend to people on the fringe and show
compassion and love
You invade the NG - You came here the same as I did but I assumed control
before you came here and you aren't taking that away
This NG is not for discussion/debates - I fear being challenged by different
views and opinions
I don't have a problem with English, you do - I cannot admit I may be wrong
and I sometimes misunderstand people
This NG has guidelines - Regardless of the facts presented to me as to why
this NG won't/can't/doesn't have guidelines I feel there must be some form
of control over this group to stop mature discussion
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Who are POOP's beast friends?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
All Trew Kristyuns, funnyMENTALists, Grizian thugs, Pedrophiles and other
assorted Woohoo Wankers and Poopers
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What is POOP's favourite bible verse?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Mark 17:666 (Trew Kristyun Version )
A new Trew Kristyun commandment I give unto you, That you luv one another as
long as they are Trew Kristyuns ... hunt out the other heretical buggers in
a Trew Kristyun Inquisition and burn them alive at the stake ... in Trew
Kristyun luv.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How does POOP discern if people are Trew
Kristyuns?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They know who are Trew Kristyuns by their plonk.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What are POOP's favourite websites?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
True Christian Church
http://www.truechristian.com/index.html
Landover Baptist ...Unsaved Unwelcome!
http://www.landoverbaptist.org/
Broomleigh Baptist Church
http://church.broomleigh.org/
McChurch Tabernacle
http://www.mcchurch.com/
Lark News - "A good source for Christian news"
http://larknews.com/
Fundyland
http://fundyland.tripod.com/index.htm
Cheesy Jesus - Truly God awful stuff to buy
http://www.cheesyjesus.com/online-store/scstore/
Robert Tilton Video
http://strange.timetrip.net/?entry=tilton
People Against Fun
http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_electronics/savesummer/paintdrying.asp
Christ's Love
http://www.christslove.com/cl1.htm
Bible Sex Stories
http://www.biblesexstories.com/
Virtual Pox
http://www.virtualpox.net/
Where's Christ?
http://www.fadetoblack.com/christ/christ2.htm
Jesus Dress up
http://www.jesusdressup.com/
Watch Paint Dry
http://www.panasonic.com/consumer_electronics/savesummer/paintdrying.asp
The End Of The Internet
http://www.shibumi.org/eoti.htm
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Should one respond to POOP's rants?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"It is not polite to greet someone who is making water or discharging his
bowels." (Erasmus in Colloquia) ...however it is advised that one answers
with the following Trew Kristyun Flame Template .....
**************************************************************************
Dear Trew Kristyun Pooper
Kissy kissy! Now you pucker up and greet me with a kiss. (Romans 6:16;
1Corinthians 16:20; 2 Corinthians13:12; I Thessalonians 5:26; 1 Peter 5:14.)
I am refreshed and challenged by your unique point of view. You make silence
a wonderful thing to look forward to. However I took exception to your
recent scribble
It was:
[X] backmasked with Satanic messages
[X] Pagan
[X] New Age
[X] unChristian
[X] Secular Humanist
[X] written in King James English
[X] written in tongues and did not include the interpretation
Your attention is drawn to the fact that:
[X] You flamed the Archbishop of Canterbury
[X] You flamed the Pope
[X] You flamed God
[X] You contradicted Jesus
[X] You contradicted yourself several times
[X] You mindlessly chanted the Pente Mantra several times
[X] You repeatedly assumed unwarranted spiritual, moral or intellectual
superiority
My informed, considered, rational and logical answer to your scribble is in
the acronyms:
[X] AWGTHTGTTSA
[X] DBEYR
[X] DILLIGAD
[X] DQYDJ
[X] FUBAR
[X] GIGO
[X] HUYA
[X] LSHHTCMS
[X] NRN
[X] PMF
[X] SITD
[X] SOI
[X] TAFL
[X] VI
[X] YGBK
I'd explain them to you, but your brain would explode.
It is recommended that you:
[X] Buy an indulgence from me.
[X] Send me a triple tithe.
[X] Do penance.
[X] Devote your life to missionary work in Iraq and Afghanistan.
[X] Start up a Christian Clown Ministry
[X] Start up a Kristyun Skool
QUESTIONS TO UNDERSTAND YOU BETTER:
[X] Jesus said in Matthew 5:42, "Give to him that asketh thee, and from
him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away." May I have your house
and car and may I borrow your most prized possession?
[X] Can I have your car after the Rapture?
[X] Have you ever sinned by eating rabbit, pork, shellfish (Leviticus 11:4,
7, 10)?
[X] Have you ever sinned by wearing clothes made of two types of material
(Leviticus 19:19; Deuteronomy 22:11)?
[X] Have you ever sinned by cutting your hair (Leviticus 19:27)?
[X] Were you in the special class at school?
[X] Are you from the shallow end of the gene pool?
[X] Do you want fries with that?
Please save this message and review it occasionally to determine your
progress toward being;
[X] a tolerable Trew Kristyun
[X] a fully-functional human being
[X] integrated into humanity
[X] re-integrated into the wild
If what you don't know can't hurt you, you're practically invulnerable.
Thank you for taking the time to read this flame form.
Deuteronomy 23:12 -13 "You are to have a place outside the camp where you
can go when you need to relieve yourselves. Carry a stick as a part of your
equipment, so when you have a bowel movement you can dig a hole and cover it
up."
**********************************************************************
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
How does one sing along with POOP?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
One must sing the POOP Anthem ...
**********************************************************************
THE HAPPY HAPPY JOY JOY SONG (by Ren & Stimpy)
Hello, boys and girls. This is your old pal, Stinky Wizzleteats. This is a
song about a whale. No! This is a song about being happy! That's right! It's
the Happy Happy Joy Joy song!
Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy
Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy
Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy
Happy Happy Joy Joy Joy!
I don't think you're happy enough! That's right! I'll teach you to be happy!
I'll teach your grandmother to suck eggs! Now, boys and girls, let's try it
again!
Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy
Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy
Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy
Happy Happy Joy Joy Joy!
If'n you aint the grandaddy of all liars! The little critters of nature...
They don't know that they're ugly! That's very funny, a fly marrying a
bumblebee! I told you I'd shoot! But you didn't believe me! Why didn't you
believe me?!
Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy
Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy
Happy Happy Joy Joy Happy Happy Joy Joy
Happy Happy Happy Happy
Happy Happy Happy Happy
Happy Happy Joy Joy Joy!
from http://www.bitstorm.org/happyjoy/ where you can also listen to the
song and pretend its a Jesus Jingle.
Guitar tab at http://www.guitaretab.com/m/misc-television/26019.html
See a happy happy joy joy dog at
http://www.yourpetphotos.com/funpages/happyjoy.cfm
Get you happy happy joy joy! sticker at
http://www.stickergiant.com/page/sg/PROD/g438
Buy the dvd at http://www.dvdtimes.co.uk/content.php?contentid=5718
Buy happy happy joy joy action figures, toys, games and othjer kitsch at
http://www.entertainmentearth.com/c/Ren_&_Stimpy.html
Ren & Stimpy Information for Trew Kristyuns at
http://www.lysator.liu.se/~marcus/ren_stimpy/
#################################################
Compiled 29 June 2004, during the great POOP of August 2004 .
Mark T
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What is POOP?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Principality of Obnoxious Poopers (aka collectively as POOP) including Vera,
Abby, etc
AKA
- Venomous Vera, Vera 666, The Nazi, Plonk Bottle Washer
- scAbby, Obnoxious Abby, Juvenile Jeanutter
They are
- Trew Kristyuns
- funnyMENTALists
- Grizian thugs
- Pedrophiles
- Poopers
These are characterised by one or more of the following: an extreme lack of
rationality, fondness of logical fallacies, repeated use of emotional
appeals, rigid adherence to Bronze Age mythology, endorsement of
pseudoscientific nonsense, opposition to the First Amendment, bigotry and
discriminatory attitudes towards minority groups, belief that certain
children's media is the work of Satan, and propensity to post Bible verses
instead of valid argument.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What's wrong with POOP?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They appear to be as happy as if they were in their right minds.
They have the following unfortunate features:
- a distrust and fear of freedom
- a belief in the importance of authority and in controlling what people
believe
- a corre貞ponding preference for obedience rather than love
Mark T
Mark T
Mark T
Blobert!
>
> "(: Lawrence Meckan :)" <lme...@SMEEyahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:412d1...@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com...
> > ::: vera ::: wrote:
> > > People who bash my Brothers and Sisters are surely not my friends if
> they do
> > > not stop that.
> >
> > Yeah, but what happens when your brothers and sisters are wrong and
> > committing injustice in the name of Christ ?
You forgot to say IMO, Larry. You don't even know what "in the Name of
Christ" means.....
> >
> > What, then ?
> >
> > Should people just ignore the junk they spew?
> >
> > lawrence
>
> Of course not Larry. Do we ignore ==you==? NO! We set you back on track.
> We always tell you when you are wrong. Which is most of the time.
I usually just leave him to go on his merry way (to hell).
BUT! News Flash! Larry was right once!!!
Then he went back to playing with Moe and Curly.....
>
> Abbs
>
>
Blobert!
> "Blobert!" <OneN...@Under.Blob> wrote in
> news:TT%Wc.3419$Y%3.3...@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net:
>
> >
> > "applegas" <appl...@NO.SPAM.sunflower.com> wrote in message
> > news:Xns954FD7EED8B42...@216.168.3.44...
> >> pedro <pe...@nowhere.com> wrote in news:412bf4c7$0$2036$afc38c87
> >> @news.optusnet.com.au:
> >>
> >> > Notice how that Mork is always bashing others beliefs, but never
> >> > says what he believes himself? He never offers any positive
> >> > alternative views. But any fool can do that.. and he is a fool! He
> >> > won't say what he does believe, because then others would be able
> >> > to criticise his beliefs. It would make a refreshing change tho
> >> > wouldn't it.
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >> And yet he has stated what he believes.
> >
> > What he believes is diametrically opposed to the orthodox
> > teachings of
> > the Christian faith.
> >
>
> That is your opinion. And I praise God that you are able to share that
> opinion. That we are ALL able to share our opinions.
Sarah,
=THE= core teaching of Christianity is the Deity of Christ. If you
reject that you reject the Christ of the Bible, reject that Christ and you
are not a Christian. If you are not a Christian you are going to hell.
>
> You are all fighting so hard against Mark. You are spending SO much
> energy to fight him.
>
> What about JW's or Mormons or Christian Scientists...Do you totally agree
> with everything they are teaching?
>
> NO?
Of course NOT!
>
> Well, they are probably converting more people to their way of thinking
> than Mark is here.
There is no safety in numbers.
>
> Most people regard him as a troll and don't even read him. The majority
> of people reading him now are reading him because of titles like "Mork
> 'the Dork' Dingbat". They see controversy and flock to it like white on
> rice.
>
> Those of us who have taken the time to actually conversate with him
> understand him a bit more.
Then why don't you understand that he is not a Christian or do you need
to conversate (sic) some more?
>
> But, I should know that I'm wasting my time here.
>
> >> He's actually a very intelligent
> >> man.
> >
> > So were Adolf Hitler and Dr. Joseph Mengele. Nazi Germany was the
> > most
> > educated nation on earth.
> >
> Comparing Mark to Hitler, are we? Run out of other insults?
If the shoe fits.... You were the one who brought "intelligence" and
safety in numbers into the discussion.
pedro
> "pedro" <pe...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:412c1f99$0$16887$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
>>
>>
>>>"Diana" wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Actually Mark on many occasions states what his >beliefs are.
>>>
>>>Yep ... especially if you ask nicely.
>>
>>me? Oh, that's a good one. ALL HAIL POPE MORK!!
>
> kindness, even in the face of rudeness.
>
> Matthew 5:
>
> Love for Enemies
>
> 43"You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your
> enemy.'
>
> good to those who hate you and pray for those who persecute you,
>
> 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise
> on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the
> unrighteous.
>
> 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even
> the tax collectors doing that?
>
> 47 And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others?
> Do not even pagans do that?
>
> 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
>
> Now, while I admit as a fallible human, that we can really never be perfect
> this side of the veil, as it were, I do believe that we can put this into
> practice in this format of the newsgroups - the major "golden rule,"
>
> "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." = "Treat people the way
> YOU want to be treated."
>
> Matthew 7:12
> So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this
> sums up the Law and the Prophets.
>
> Luke 6:31
> Do to others as you would have them do to you.
>
> Now of course, this does not mean for the Christian, to treat Mark the way
> that he is treating them, now, does it?
>
> from whence some of Mark's doctrinal beliefs went astray, as it were. Some
> of them are right on the mark, (no pun intended), while a lot of them have
> fallen by the wayside into a liberal granular earthen soul, if you will
> pardon my attempts at illustration with words - I am thinking of the heart
> from every contact I have had with him, quite the mixture of soils.
>
> Christians, are to be rude and abusive with words right back?
>
> No.
>
> It means we are to "have an answer for every man of the hope that is in us,"
>
> 1 Peter 3:
>
> 15b Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give
> the reason for the hope that you have. ***But do this with gentleness and
> respect,***
>
> 16 keeping a clear conscience, so that those who speak maliciously against
> your good behavior in Christ may be ashamed of their slander.
>
> No matter how ugly we are treated by ANYONE, we are to "turn the other
> cheek," and provide loving, gentle, and respectful words - not react in
> kind.
That's not a philosophy that I subscribe to. I prefer to treat ppl as
they treat me. i.e. as they deserve to be treated. At least it makes
them sit up and take notice, and maybe think about their behaviour. If
you let ppl treat you like garbage they will! And then where is the
incentive for them not to treat you like that? But if you can make them
realize that they are not going to get anywhere with you unless they
show you some respect, then they will need to behave themselves if they
wish to have any sort of meaningful relationship. But if they continue
to treat you badly, then they are showing their contempt for you- as
Mark clearly does- so they are not worth bothering with as far as I'm
concerned. Life is too short to be concerned with trying to get ppl
onside who are not willing to behave decently. Because after all, it's
wrong to abuse and insult ppl, so why should anyone be expected or asked
to stand for it?
> It's hard enough in the real world out here to do that, you know? But in an
> online format, it's easier, I think, to "sit on your hands" before typing
> something that you or I would later regret. . .
>
>
>>'Put "eat chocolate" on your list of things to do today. That way, at
>>least you'll get one thing done'
>
>
> *LOL* I had that on my list yesterday and had weird dreams all night. . .
>
> God bless,
>
> Feather
>
--
rgds,
Pete.
-----
http://pedro.spyw.com
'City: A large community where people are lonesome together'
pedro
> In news:412ca83c$0$8833$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au,
> pedro <pe...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>
>>>>>vera ::: wrote:
>>
>>>In news:2p2n64F...@uni-berlin.de,
>>>
>>>>>>vera ::: <ver...@acc-growing-deeper.de> wrote:
>>>
>>>>In news:412c1f8d$0$16887$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au,
>>>>pedro <pe...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>"Diana" wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Actually Mark on many occasions states what his >beliefs are.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Yep ... especially if you ask nicely.
>>>>>
>>>>>insulting to me? Oh, that's a good one. ALL HAIL POPE MORK!!
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>>Love to you, Your Majesty Pedro!!!
>>
>
> Greetings, MOP...!
No! I'm not MOP! You're MOP.. Minister of Pies!
> What was VOTDP? I have forgotten, your Majesty of POP! Sorry. I regret,
> awfully.
You forget your own title??!! (sigh) What is the world coming to? Oh
well, that's ok. I don't expect perfection.. only instant absolute
obedience!.. with much grovelling! (lol!)
VOTDP = Vera of the Deadly Pies
>>>>Funny, how other Christians try to convince you of the goosness in
>>>>the heresy of Morkie.
>>>
>>>Hey, I meant "goodness", but "gooseness" might be a nice creation,
>>>too...
>>
>>Well he is a goose!
>>
>>
>>>:-)
>
>
> He is so gooooooooood in his goooooooooooooooooooseness.
>
> And Alice and Bev habe been living next door to him for 25 years - but have
> moved away now. :-)
>
>
>>>>>>>vera :::
>>>>>>>http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::
>>>>>>>http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::
--
rgds,
Pete.
-----
http://pedro.spyw.com
'Publik educazion iz jus good ass prrivat!!'
pedro
LOL! How can they 'forget about yours' when you are so much in their
face, with all your christian bashing?
--
rgds,
Pete.
-----
http://pedro.spyw.com
'If today was a fish, I'd throw it back in!'
pedro
> "Diana" wrote:
>
>
>>I won't stop being Marks friend
>>either. I am not friends with someone because of how
>>they believe or what church they go to or not. I see
>>something good in all people some more than others but
>>none the less I see good in all.
>
>
>
> I am also a friends with Diana regardless of what she believes. I'd hate to
> have friends that are my clones. it would be boring. Diana is one of the
> good fundies like Cal who express their opinion but don't expect everyone to
> accept it or burn in hell.
See there you go with your heresy.. Ppl don't/can't consign anyone to
hell. They can only tell others that they are going to hell if they
don't believe.
--
rgds,
Pete.
-----
http://pedro.spyw.com
'He who laughs last.. thinks slowest'
::: vera :::
Bradley <spam...@blocked.com> wrote:
> "::: vera :::" <ver...@acc-growing-deeper.de> wrote in message
>> In news:u82Xc.227859$fv.6...@fe2.columbus.rr.com,
>> Diana <(H)(U)(G)(S)fr...@Diana.com> wrote:
> <snip>
>
>>> Vera, Mark is my friend. I do not know if he is a
>>> Christian ONLY God knows that.
>
>> Wrong - I can tell you, too - as it is too obvious, and the silliest
>> idiot would know that.
>>
>> I am not willing to discuss that with you - with regards to your
>> health. So better concentrate on something uplifting.
>
> Like calling people idiots?
I don't "call" them idiots - they ARE idiots, and everybody can see that. It
is obvious. Just read the "POOPs POSTS" of Mark Tindall. What would you call
him when reading such a slander? What? - Your dear Brother and friend? LOL
You are guilty, BadLie. You are guilty for all the coming Christian
persecutions.
::: vera :::
Blobert!
> Feather Forestwalker wrote:
> > No matter how ugly we are treated by ANYONE, we are to "turn the other
> > cheek," and provide loving, gentle, and respectful words - not react in
> > kind.
>
> That's not a philosophy that I subscribe to. I prefer to treat ppl as
> they treat me. i.e. as they deserve to be treated. At least it makes
> them sit up and take notice, and maybe think about their behaviour. If
> you let ppl treat you like garbage they will! And then where is the
> incentive for them not to treat you like that? But if you can make them
> realize that they are not going to get anywhere with you unless they
> show you some respect, then they will need to behave themselves if they
> wish to have any sort of meaningful relationship. But if they continue
> to treat you badly, then they are showing their contempt for you- as
> Mark clearly does- so they are not worth bothering with as far as I'm
> concerned. Life is too short to be concerned with trying to get ppl
> onside who are not willing to behave decently. Because after all, it's
> wrong to abuse and insult ppl, so why should anyone be expected or asked
> to stand for it?
Christians endeavor to do this simply because we are commanded to do so
by our Master. We all fail miserably, and many people fail =spectacularly=!
Blobert!
> Mark T wrote:
>
> > "Diana" wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> >>Exactly Bob !! If I saw Mark hated Jesus you are right
> >>he would not be my friend. However I do not see that.
> >>Where has he said he hates Jesus? Please provide that
> >>if you will so I may read it for myself.
> >
> >
> >
> > I love Jesus as my Lord. Some cannot see the distinction I am making in
my
> > current Christian journey. Since it is not their journey they think it
is
> > evil. they should have their oiwn journey and forget about mine.
We are on our own journeys and have seen someone who so desperately
wants to =appear= to be on the same journey, but he is not. He has rejected
the map and gotten lost in a morass of his own choosing. If you do not
believe in the Deity of Christ you are not on a Christian journey.
::: vera :::
>
>>> Funny how things get read into something that is not
>>> there. Then the lies , slander, backbiting etc starts.
>>> Yes I love Mark because he is Mark. Do I have the same
>>> beliefs? No I don't but I don't choose my friends that
>>> way.
>>>
>>> Diana
>
>> they do not stop that.
>
> UNCONDITIONALLY and loving friends. Loving friends is easy but God
> calls us to a higher level... to also love our enemies and those that
> persecute us.
Yes, but that does not mean we should forget to love our Brothers and
Sisters FIRST OF ALL! AND the enemies. We are not to sacrifice others for
enemies. You may, however sacrifice. But yourself, not others. You - and
Feather as well - misinterpret the Bible there!
Love your neighbour, and THEN love your enemy. Nowhere did God say to love
your neighbour more than your Friends. That would really be sick! That's
what you all are: sick! That is NOT what Jesus meant!
Love your neighbour, love your Brothers and Sisters, love your Friends -
that is NORMAL TO DO! but you will get more reward if you can ALSO love your
enemy.
I do not think you will understand that - just because you have not
understood anything. Well, it seems you can't, as you are blocked. Try to
have that unblocked.
How sick you all are.
Now go and sacrifice yourself if you want to. But you mixed it up with
sacrificing other believers. Sick, you are so sick. You need a good doctor.
Go and try Jesus - he is the best there ever has been.
pedro
> "Blobert!" <OneN...@Under.Blob> wrote in
> news:TT%Wc.3419$Y%3.3...@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net:
>
>
>>"applegas" <appl...@NO.SPAM.sunflower.com> wrote in message
>>news:Xns954FD7EED8B42...@216.168.3.44...
>>
>>>pedro <pe...@nowhere.com> wrote in news:412bf4c7$0$2036$afc38c87
>>>@news.optusnet.com.au:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Notice how that Mork is always bashing others beliefs, but never
>>>>says what he believes himself? He never offers any positive
>>>>alternative views. But any fool can do that.. and he is a fool! He
>>>>won't say what he does believe, because then others would be able
>>>>to criticise his beliefs. It would make a refreshing change tho
>>>>wouldn't it.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>And yet he has stated what he believes.
>>
>> What he believes is diametrically opposed to the orthodox
>> teachings of
>>the Christian faith.
>>
>
>
> That is your opinion. And I praise God that you are able to share that
> opinion. That we are ALL able to share our opinions.
That is something that we should all value very highly. In many places
of the world ppl cannot speak their mind on religious or other issues,
and may well pay with their lives if they do.
> You are all fighting so hard against Mark. You are spending SO much
> energy to fight him.
Sarah.. I believe that is your name. :)
I first encountered Mark Tindall was several years ago, when I had been
posting on ARC for several years at least- maybe even 4 or 5. Within a
few weeks (maybe less) of his appearing on the ng he told me, a regular
contributor, literally to 'PISS OFF!!" He was rude, insulting, abusive,
and bombastic, and has been that way ever since. He treats anyone who
disagrees with him, or doesn't accept his irregular form of Christianity
in this way. The energy that is being spent is in response to his
intolerance of others beliefs, and their way of life.
> What about JW's or Mormons or Christian Scientists...Do you totally agree
> with everything they are teaching?
>
> NO?
>
> Well, they are probably converting more people to their way of thinking
> than Mark is here.
Fortunately they are not here causing disruption!
> Most people regard him as a troll and don't even read him.
Good!
> The majority
> of people reading him now are reading him because of titles like "Mork
> 'the Dork' Dingbat". They see controversy and flock to it like white on
> rice.
>
> Those of us who have taken the time to actually conversate with him
> understand him a bit more.
>
> But, I should know that I'm wasting my time here.
>
>
>>>He's actually a very intelligent
>>>man.
I don't think anyone disputes that- or that he is erudite. It's only his
behaviour and beliefs that ppl take issue with. If he cannot tolerate
being told that he is wrong- and whether he is or isn't is irrelevant in
this context- then he's at fault, not others who seek to inform him
about their beliefs.
>> So were Adolf Hitler and Dr. Joseph Mengele. Nazi Germany was the
>> most
>>educated nation on earth.
>>
>
> Comparing Mark to Hitler, are we? Run out of other insults?
>
> I will keep praying for you, Bob. I do hope you are well.
>
> Sarah
--
rgds,
Pete.
-----
http://pedro.spyw.com
'Virus scan completed: All viruses functioning normally'
pedro
> "pedro" <pe...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:412df2e2$0$9811$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
>
>>Mark T wrote:
>>
>>>"Diana" wrote:
>>>
>>>>Exactly Bob !! If I saw Mark hated Jesus you are right
>>>>he would not be my friend. However I do not see that.
>>>>Where has he said he hates Jesus? Please provide that
>>>>if you will so I may read it for myself.
>>>
>>>I love Jesus as my Lord. Some cannot see the distinction I am making in
>>>my current Christian journey. Since it is not their journey they think
>>>it is evil. they should have their oiwn journey and forget about mine.
>
> We are on our own journeys and have seen someone who so desperately
> wants to =appear= to be on the same journey, but he is not. He has rejected
> the map and gotten lost in a morass of his own choosing. If you do not
> believe in the Deity of Christ you are not on a Christian journey.
I agree.
>>LOL! How can they 'forget about yours' when you are so much in their
>>face, with all your christian bashing?
>>
--
rgds,
Pete.
-----
http://pedro.spyw.com
'A conclusion is simply the place where you got tired of thinking'
Ninure Saunders
From the NIV Bible dictionary
REVILE (Heb. qalal, Gr. antiloidoreo, blasphemeo, loidoreo, oneidizo). A
word meaning łto address with abusive or insulting language,˛ łto
reproach.˛ Israelites were forbidden to revile their parents on pain of
death (Exod 21:17 KJV; NIV łcurses˛). Israel was reviled by Moab and Ammon
(Zeph 2:8 KJV; NIV łtaunts˛). Jesus endured reviling on the cross (Mark
15:32 KJV). Revilers will have no part in the kingdom of God (1 Cor 6:10
KJV; cf. Pss 10:13; 44:16; 74:10, 18).
From the Wordsuth Dictionary:
Revile:
Inflected Forms reviled, reviling, reviles
Definition 1. to speak about or speak to with hostile insults;
disparage or abuse.
Synonyms abuse (3) , slur (1) , mock (1) , disparage (1) ,
deprecate (1) , deride
From The Online Plain
Text English Dictionary:
Revile
* (n.) Reproach; reviling.
* (v. t. & i.) To address or abuse with opprobrious and contemptuous
language; to
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
http://Rainbow-Christian.tk
The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
Take my polls
http://ninure.100megsfree5.com
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http://Ninure.tk
My Online Diary
http://www.ninure.deardiary.net
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http://www.MCCchurch.org
The Bible Site - help provide free scripture
http://www.thebiblesite.org
To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
::: vera :::
pedro <pe...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>> vera ::: wrote:
>> In news:412ca83c$0$8833$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au,
>> pedro <pe...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>
>>>>>> vera ::: wrote:
>>>
>>>> In news:2p2n64F...@uni-berlin.de,
>>>>
>>>>>>> vera ::: <ver...@acc-growing-deeper.de> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> In news:412c1f8d$0$16887$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au,
>>>>> pedro <pe...@nowhere.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Mark T wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "Diana" wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Actually Mark on many occasions states what his >beliefs are.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yep ... especially if you ask nicely.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> So I should ask nicely to someone who is rude, abusive, and
>>>>>> insulting to me? Oh, that's a good one. ALL HAIL POPE MORK!!
>>>>>
>>>>> Yes, let us all kiss his dirty feet!!! LOL
>>>
>>> Ewww! Yuk!
>>>
>>>
>>>>> Love to you, Your Majesty Pedro!!!
>>>
>>> Greetings VOTDP, MOP..! :)
>>
>> Greetings, MOP...!
>
> No! I'm not MOP! You're MOP.. Minister of Pies!
Hi POP!
This is MOP writing on ACE. :-)
Oh - wonderful, I am the MOP. :-D
I mussed have missed my nomination, sorry - I had so much to do.... :-)
>> What was VOTDP? I have forgotten, your Majesty of POP! Sorry. I
>> regret, awfully.
>
> You forget your own title??!! (sigh) What is the world coming to? Oh
> well, that's ok. I don't expect perfection.. only instant absolute
> obedience!.. with much grovelling! (lol!)
>
> VOTDP = Vera of the Deadly Pies
Oh, I see... I will write that down on a separate sheet of paper...
Much Christian love to you,
your
MOP VOTDP
vera
I hope I have spelled that correctly, Your Eminence.
Bradley
>> Vera still does not appear to get the difference between loving
>> people UNCONDITIONALLY and loving friends. Loving friends is easy
>> but God calls us to a higher level... to also love our enemies and
>> those that persecute us.
> Yes, but that does not mean we should forget to love our Brothers and
> Sisters FIRST OF ALL! AND the enemies. We are not to sacrifice others
> for enemies. You may, however sacrifice. But yourself, not others.
> You - and Feather as well - misinterpret the Bible there!
> Love your neighbour, and THEN love your enemy.
> Nowhere did God say to
> love your neighbour more than your Friends.
> That would really be
> sick! That's what you all are: sick! That is NOT what Jesus meant!
>
> Love your neighbour, love your Brothers and Sisters, love your
> Friends - that is NORMAL TO DO! but you will get more reward if you
> can ALSO love your enemy.
>
> I do not think you will understand that - just because you have not
> understood anything. Well, it seems you can't, as you are blocked.
> Try to have that unblocked.
> How sick you all are.
It is sad that you feel the need to belittle others because they
apparently have a different view than you. It is also sad that you
justify your lovelessness in such a way.
Matt 43 "You have heard that it was said, You shall love your neighbor
and hate your enemy. 44 But I tell you, love your enemies, and pray for
those who persecute you, 45 so that you may be sons of your Father in
heaven. For He causes His sun to rise on the evil and the good, and
sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 For if you love
those who love you, what reward will you have? Don't even the tax
collectors do the same? 47 And if you greet only your brothers, what are
you doing out of the ordinary? Don't even the Gentiles do the same? 48
Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
What are you doing "out of the ordinary" Vera in this circumstance?
> Now go and sacrifice yourself if you want to.
> But you mixed it up with
> sacrificing other believers.
>
> Sick, you are so sick. You need a good
> doctor.
Matt 21 "You have heard that it was said to our ancestors, You shall not
murder , and whoever murders will be subject to judgment. 22 But I tell
you, everyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment.
And whoever says to his brother, 'Fool!' will be subject to the
Sanhedrin. But whoever says, 'You moron!' will be subject to hellfire.
23 So if you are offering your gift on the altar, and there you remember
that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in
front of the altar. First go and be reconciled with your brother, and
then come and offer your gift. 25 Reach a settlement quickly with your
adversary while you're on the way with him, or your adversary will hand
you over to the judge, the judge to the officer, and you will be thrown
into prison. 26 I assure you: You will never get out of there until you
have paid the last penny!
You have been handed over for judgement Vera.
--
regards,
Bradley
Bradley
> In news:412d1...@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com,
> Bradley <spam...@blocked.com> wrote:
>> "::: vera :::" <ver...@acc-growing-deeper.de> wrote in message
>> news:2p3qufF...@uni-berlin.de
>>> In news:u82Xc.227859$fv.6...@fe2.columbus.rr.com,
>>> Diana <(H)(U)(G)(S)fr...@Diana.com> wrote:
>> <snip>
>>
>>>> Vera, Mark is my friend. I do not know if he is a
>>>> Christian ONLY God knows that.
>>
>>> Wrong - I can tell you, too - as it is too obvious, and the silliest
>>> idiot would know that.
>>>
>>> I am not willing to discuss that with you - with regards to your
>>> health. So better concentrate on something uplifting.
>>
>> Like calling people idiots?
> I don't "call" them idiots - they ARE idiots,
Vera, it is plain to see that you are calling people names like this.
Mt 21 "You have heard that it was said to our ancestors, You shall not
murder , and whoever murders will be subject to judgment. 22 But I tell
you, everyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment.
And whoever says to his brother, 'Fool!' will be subject to the
Sanhedrin. But whoever says, 'You moron!' will be subject to hellfire.
23 So if you are offering your gift on the altar, and there you remember
that your brother has something against you, 24 leave your gift there in
front of the altar. First go and be reconciled with your brother, and
then come and offer your gift. 25 Reach a settlement quickly with your
adversary while you're on the way with him, or your adversary will hand
you over to the judge, the judge to the officer, and you will be thrown
into prison. 26 I assure you: You will never get out of there until you
have paid the last penny!
> and everybody can see
> that. It is obvious. Just read the "POOPs POSTS" of Mark Tindall.
> What would you call him when reading such a slander? What? - Your
> dear Brother and friend? LOL
What is obvious is that you are just as guilty and continually try to
avoid your own actions by pointing at others.
<snip more silly name calling>
--
regards,
Bradley
(: Lawrence Meckan :)
> "Abby" <ab...@clevelandedu.org> wrote in message
> news:6pqdnQSWIJE...@bright.net...
>
>>"(: Lawrence Meckan :)" <lme...@SMEEyahoo.com> wrote in message
>>news:412d1...@news.melbourne.pipenetworks.com...
>>
>>>::: vera ::: wrote:
>>>
>>>>People who bash my Brothers and Sisters are surely not my friends if
>>
>>they do
>>
>>>>not stop that.
>>>
>>>Yeah, but what happens when your brothers and sisters are wrong and
>>>committing injustice in the name of Christ ?
>
>
> You forgot to say IMO, Larry. You don't even know what "in the Name of
> Christ" means.....
Now that's a shining example of great Christian witness. Not!
People leave the Church because of behaviour likes yours!
>>>What, then ?
>>>
>>>Should people just ignore the junk they spew?
>>>
>>>lawrence
>>
>>Of course not Larry. Do we ignore ==you==? NO! We set you back on track.
>>We always tell you when you are wrong. Which is most of the time.
>
>
> I usually just leave him to go on his merry way (to hell).
Yep, yet another nutcase that gets his rocks off saying people are
turning into spiritual marshmallows.
You go on and on like a prom queen on heat about everyone else burning
in hell, but never mention the grace of God that is available to all
mankind, where they don't have to follow YOUR freaking rules or doctrine
to get into heaven!
> BUT! News Flash! Larry was right once!!!
I've been right more than once.;-)
Most of the times I've been right concering your life, you haven't had
the gumption to own up..
lawrence
(: Lawrence Meckan :)
> Mark T wrote:
>
>> "Diana" wrote:
>>
>>
>>> I won't stop being Marks friend
>>> either. I am not friends with someone because of how
>>> they believe or what church they go to or not. I see
>>> something good in all people some more than others but
>>> none the less I see good in all.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I am also a friends with Diana regardless of what she believes. I'd
>> hate to
>> have friends that are my clones. it would be boring. Diana is one of
>> the
>> good fundies like Cal who express their opinion but don't expect
>> everyone to
>> accept it or burn in hell.
>
>
> See there you go with your heresy.. Ppl don't/can't consign anyone to
> hell. They can only tell others that they are going to hell if they
> don't believe.
Then tell BOB that's he's promoting heresy!
lawrence
Mark T
> > I love Jesus as my Lord. Some cannot see the distinction I am making in
my
> > current Christian journey. Since it is not their journey they think it
is
> > evil. They should have their own journey and forget about mine.
>
> LOL! How can they 'forget about yours' when you are so much in their
> face, with all your christian bashing?
Do you have a life besides Mark bashing?
Can you dialogue on a serious rational level or are you confined to silly
one liners?
You seem to be young , impetuous and without much educational or theological
background.
How about dialoguing with me on the difference between Christianity as a
journey rather than an end point? Are you capable of doing so? Then show
me.
Mark T
> > I am also a friends with Diana regardless of what she believes. I'd
hate to
> > have friends that are my clones. It would be boring. Diana is one of
the
> > good fundies like Cal who express their opinion but don't expect
everyone to
> > accept it or burn in hell.
>
> See there you go with your heresy.. Ppl don't/can't consign anyone to
> hell. They can only tell others that they are going to hell if they
> don't believe.
How about dialoguing with me on the subject of hell?
First of all, deleting Matthew's gospel from the bible would also delete
most of the references to hell. Mathew has a hell fetish just like you have
a Mark fetish.
Secondly, it's your hell , you burn in it.
Thirdly, I don't think you have you have the intellectual ability to
rationally discuss anything in depth with me. prove I am wrong. What is
hell?
Mark T
> We are on our own journeys and have seen someone who so desperately
> wants to =appear= to be on the same journey, but he is not. He has
rejected
> the map and gotten lost in a morass of his own choosing. If you do not
> believe in the Deity of Christ you are not on a Christian journey.
How about dialoguing with me on the above, Blob?
First of all, there are many scriptures which present my position.
Secondly, you suffer from Asperger's syndrome and in the past I have felt
sorry for you and have tended to ignore your obsessive behaviour. That may
change if you cannot dialogue with me on a serious level.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Asperger's Syndrome
In 1944, Asperger's Syndrome was first described and named after the
Austrian doctor, Hans Asperger. He described individuals who showed odd-like
behaviours...
Asperger's Syndrome is a form of autism that affects how a person
communicates and relates with others. This means that they commonly have
difficulty in social relationships, in communicating, and have limitations
in imagination and creative play
... they often repeat what they say and partake in conversations that
revolve around themselves. They are usually obsessed with complex topics
like patterns, weather, music, and technology.
... They mainly have concrete thinking and often lack common sense. ...
They have a great deal of difficulty reading body language, have trouble
determining personal body space, and are socially aware but often 'react the
wrong way? It is because of this that those with Asperger's Syndrome are
often viewed as eccentric or odd and can easily become victims of teasing
and bullying.
....
Persons with Asperger's Syndrome show marked deficiencies in social skills,
have difficulties with transitions or changes and prefer sameness. They
often have obsessive routines and may be preoccupied with a particular
subject of interest.
It's important to remember that the person with Asperger's Syndrome
perceives the world very differently. Therefore, much behaviour that seems
odd or unusual is due to those neurological differences and not the result
of intentional rudeness or bad behaviour, and most certainly not the result
of "improper parenting".
...
People with Asperger's Syndrome find it more difficult to read the signals
which most of us take for granted. As a result they find it more difficult
to communicate and interact with others and have a large problem with social
interaction. Meanwhile they often develop overwhelmingly obsessive
interests, which can preoccupy them
...
People with Asperger's Syndrome often find change upsetting.
...
As they get older, they may realise that they are different from other
people and feel isolated and depressed. People with Asperger's Syndrome
often want to be sociable and are upset by the fact that they find it hard
to make friends.
Mark T
> > We are on our own journeys and have seen someone who so desperately
> > wants to =appear= to be on the same journey, but he is not. He has
rejected
> > the map and gotten lost in a morass of his own choosing. If you do not
> > believe in the Deity of Christ you are not on a Christian journey.
>
> I agree.
Why?
applegas
STOP RIGHT NOW OR I'LL TELL YOUR MOM ON YOU!!!
:)
Sarah
Mark T
> Revilers will have no part in the kingdom of God (1 Cor 6:10
If the Trew Kristyun revilers are going to heaven I would not want to be in
heaven with them.
Abby
"(: Lawrence Meckan :)" <lme...@SMEEyahoo.com> wrote in message
The true filth is learned. Larry knows we have him pegged.
Salvation is NOT for everyone. Only to those God calls for His own. The
elect. These are the only ones who have God's mercy.
If you would read The Book you would have known that, but oh yes....its full
of errors (which you have yet to prove we have waited and waited and asked
and asked). You are just another idiot like mork, mordecia and a few others
who hang out here just to divide the brethren.
Abby
Abby
"(: Lawrence Meckan :)" <lme...@SMEEyahoo.com> wrote in message
Why don't ==YOU==Larry? Or are your knees knocking from lack of integrity.
Abbs
Ben Mitts
> "Ben Mitts" <bmit...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:412C4BC...@comcast.net
>
>>Bradley wrote:
>>
>>>"Ben Mitts" <bmit...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>news:412C2EC4...@comcast.net
>
> <snip>
>
>>>>I think they call it Post-Modernism!
>>>>If one believes in this theory they
>>>>automatically get to re-invent The
>>>>Word of God, then beat up on the
>>>>Christian beliefs of others!
>>>
>>>
>>>Do you even know what post-modernism is????
>>
>>Why do you ask?
>
>
> Because it doesn't seem apparent from your comments.
Sorry to not have answered this sooner. Was
setting up Netscape 7.2! Basically Post Modernism
in essence, from a street understanding of the term,
deals with deconstructing Scriptures to change their
meanings. In essence most of this persuasion rather
want to feel good, but cant when they try to use The
Bible to back their beliefs, so they either ignore The
Word, or redefine it so they can feel good about what
they are into! Mark is a classic example of this! He
doesn't accept Scripture, so in order to feel good
about what himself he does what ever it takes to de-
stroy The Word, and any one who stands against him
In order to make his take on life work he tries to make
them bear the brunt of his illogicity- regardless of how
evil he has to become and who he must destroy in
order to make his plan work!
--
May God continue to richly Bless you!
Peace and Love in The Name of Jesus Christ!
Sincerely,
Ben mitts
From The Word of God: And as Moses lifted up the serpent
in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted
up; that whoever believes may in Him have eternal life."
Similarly, God so loved the world, that He gave His only
begotten Son, that who ever believes in Him should not
perish, but Have eternal life.
Mark T
>are your knees knocking from lack of integrity.
Yours certainly seem to be, Abby!
Since you claim to be so wonderfully educated, prove it. I challenge you to
a debate on your fundamentalism. Let's see which of us is more mentally
deficient than the other. I think it is you. You have not been able to
debate anyone rationally over the last year that I have the misfortune to
read your posts. Prove that you are not mentally deficient by debating me in
a protracted rational argument. I bet you can't.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
This is a brief History of Jeannette/Abby
It is easy, all too easy, for someone to claim to be a "Christian."
However, the proof of their claim can be found in their daily conduct.
On USENET where we cannot see the conduct, we must "read between the
lines," or, keep track of someone's words until we recognize their Truth
(or lie).
Actually, in a busy NG like ACC where there are hundreds of posts each
day, this can be difficult.
The solution is the google archive. What I did (and recommend for
everyone) is I read for a while, and then looked up the people who
interested me to find what their history was.
It took me three months to decide that my choice of friends could not be
postponed any longer.
I do not ask you to take my word for anything. I do ask you to use the
information I provide to discover the Truth for yourself.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
I am convinced that Jeannette is a Liar, and have posted my proof, to
which Jeannette did not refute or deny or disprove or contest or reply,
nor did she apologize.
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=100k9a4ep59n64b%40corp.supernews.com&oe=UT
F-8&output=gplain
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------
Below is clips and snips of some of the things Jeannette has said, which
IMHO reveal her character and personality.
----------------------------------------------------
the following is one link into the google archive
(watch for word wrap)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----------------
http://www.google.com/groups?selm=SsKdnVMuHYzyvpLdRVn-jQ%40bright.net&oe=UTF
-8&output=gplain
---------------------------------------------------------------
Next, is the complete header found on all messages: this header is on a
google archived message.
Whether from hotmail, or yahoo, or gte.net or webtv or whomever or
wherever, all messages have headers which can be used to trace their origin.
This in one of the ways a spammer or hacker or virus spreader can be traced.
This is a real header: you can use the Message-ID to locate this
message, or use the subject and author.
----------------------------------------------------
NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 19:12:15 -0600
From: "Jeannette" <cowabunga@home>
Newsgroups: alt.christnet.christianlife
References: <100u7ts...@corp.supernews.com>
Subject: Re: I don't understand
Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 20:14:45 -0500
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"sensible2me" <mca...@spamfree.advertisnet.com>
wrote in message
news:100u7ts...@corp.supernews.com...
: How you separate the bible as the living word of God
: from your heart as the living word of God?
:
: People take parts of the bible so very serious and other parts are just
not
: so important, just drive on by. .
<snip>
:
: Just saying what's on my mind.
:
: Thanks,
: sensible2me
--------------------------------------------------
You need to study. The Word will explain it all.
After we are called to God thru the Holy Spirit we
are saved by grace. Then, the sanctification
process begins. We grow as the Holy Spirit of God
leads. That is accomplished thru the Word of God.
The Bible.
I notice you keep talking about YOUR life and
things YOU want to do. YOUR thoughts. Its not
about YOU! Hear That S2me??? Its not about YOU!
When you become a Christian you die to self.
It all about Jesus. That is what you are missing.
If you were into the Word, you would know exactly
what I am speaking of. This is the road we
Christians travel. It is the narrow road lead by
The Holy Spirit...giver of truth.
Jeannette
-------------------------------------------------
You know nothing of me. You pop in and out of
reality with your new age religion. I wonder if
you will ever get it. I sense its more of a show
than anything else. Continue on in your fantasy.
Remember, eternity...smoking or no smoking....the
choice is yours. But for now you are in with
those who do not wish to learn or accept God as He
is. You want God but only on your terms.
Fight it out in the killfile. Its quite pleasant
out here with people who really DO wish to love
God.
Jeannette
-----------------------------------------------------
You forgot to mention you are a blatant liar.
Jeannette
-----------------------------------------------------
I "wonder" no such thing. You are off in a cloud.
Flitting about aimlessly using God's Word only
when you "feel" like it. You run off on these
"thought" tangents like you in some dream world.
The bible is real, God is real and yes its about
saving your ass (NOT THE DONKEY KIND). If you
would read the Word you would know that. This is
not what its about. Eternity is what its about.
Eternity with the Great I Am. Stop cheapening it
with your "thoughts" Its not about you...its
about God.
Jeannette
-----------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------
: > (owd said)
: > Please allow me to offer you one small suggestion: If your words are not
: > worthy of recording for eternity, do not say
: > them, or post them.
(snipped)
ROFLMBO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Aaron....theres the problem....the dog thinks
GOOGLE IS ETERNITY!!!!!!!!! LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!
Does he really think we should follow his rules??
I told you he is a wanna be, but really he is a
never was!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Jeannette
---------------------------------------------------
Your rambling is senseless Diana. Join your five
friends in the killfile. Thrash about and wrangle
who you will there. Thats the only place you
would make any sense and perhaps you will find
fellowship there. More than anything, I wish you
peace as it obviously has alluded you. You may
have all the evil in front of you on a silver
platter with a fork in your hand and your mouth
drooling.
Enjoy!
Plonk, Plonk and double plonk.
Jeannette
--------------------------------------------------------
I am leaving for good. (some will say yea)!
Oldwetdog-you really do need to come clean. And you know what I mean.
(other names snipped for privecy)
I feel the ng scene is not right for me because of my temper. It is
something I continue to struggle with but it seems to come out in the ng
which is not fair to anyone, not to mention sinful. So I apologize for
the wrongs and hope the rights shine thru a bit. I am unsubscribing to
all ng's at this point as I feel it is the right thing to do. Please
continue to seek the Spirit of God in this NG as He is here. Don't
allow Satan to snuff out your light.
In Him,
Jeannette
-----------------------------------------------
Jeannette said she is leaving...
Did she?
-----------------------------------------------
You are the deceiver and several of us here have
been aware of it all along. You are a liar of the
worst kind because you lie out of one side of your
mouth and try to tech Godly things out of the
other side of your mouth. God gives people
discernment and many of us have it and all I hear,
see and feel from you is pure evil. Antichrist.
You are a demon prancing around with a feeble
attempt of having the light of Jesus in you but
you don't. You are the deceiver.
You have never apologized to me for your vile and
I don't want one from you at this point because I
know who and what you are. I have lurked here for
a couple days and see the same thing from you over
and over. You are a Griz wanna be. Yes you are
or you wouldn't be hounding him so much. It
wouldn't be so important to you..but you are
jealous of the Holy Spirit in Griz and in others
here. You wish that for yourself but you cannot
have it as you have already been cast out of
Heaven's realms. You fell with your demons and
now you must flounder with them in your pit.
I shall no longer even lurk here as there is Godly
fellowship elsewhere where real Christians lift up
the name of Jesus Christ, *our*. You are
officially turned over to satan as he is your
master.
Jeannette
-------------------------------------------------------
Yep he is old and wet and too bad he is taking the
other weaker ones down with him.
Jeannette
------------------------------------------------------
You have brought shame to the Name of Jesus by
your abuse to innocent people. I am finished with
you. I have to calm down and pray to my Lord.
I suggest you do the same.
I will no longer respond to you.
Jeannette
---------------------------------------------------
More than me see this in her. She is definitely
New Age and lost. Picks and chooses what is
"loving". She will "love" herself into the pits
of hell.
Jeannette
-----------------------------------------------------
Cry me a river. You will say anything to take the
focus off yourself. You keep avoiding the abuse
you are giving Griz and Vera and Ben.
You simply won't accept the fact that you are
abusive in the worst way.
Jeannette
----------------------------------------------------
You are vile and you continue to prove it.
Jeannette
------------------------------------------------------
Exactly. And now notice glenn is attempting to
assumed the role of Griz? He answers posts not
directed to him and gives his approval or
disapproval?? Wants to set up "new rules for and
*unmoderated* forum"???
This is simply turning into instant reply except
with a new cast.
I hate reruns.
Jeannette
----------------------------------------------------------
I believe you are a complete idiot. We are still
waiting for the proof of all your accusations.
It looks like you can't come up with any as thus
far you have ignored the request. So at this
point....yup...hot air wanna-be along with Mike.
You both spew the words but you can't live by it.
Jesus said shake the dust from your feet so
consider yourselves shaken.
I shall no longer respond to either of you as you
continue to pridefully divide. Jesus warned us
about the likes of you.
Jeannette
------------------------------------------------------
Your true spirit has been exposed for all to see.
It is sad but I must join other in killfiling you
so that I too may have more peace.
Your ragging has reached the point of having no
credibility.
Jeannette
------------------------------------------------------
Seems you have your own agenda Glenn.
Perhaps you should stop posting, take a rest and
reflect a bit. You talk
about discernment yet you don't seem to be using
any.
Either stop it or prove your accusations publicly.
Jeannette
--------------------------------------------------
How does it feel to be perfect glenn?
We are still waiting for the proof of your
accusations....when will it come? Do you not have
a plank in your own eye to remove?
Jeannette
------------------------------------------------------
Well, you let him out for a few days and look what
happens. Back into the killfile Wayne.
I seriously question your credibility.
Jeannette
----------------------------------------------------
Clay, unfortunately you are right, something is
horribly wrong. I suggest getting out before its
too late. You will be next on the hit list.
Blessings to you in the name of our Lord Jesus,
Abby
-----------------------------------------------------
Thanks for the offer Feather, however, after I
prayed about it I felt led to just ignore him so I
killfiled him. I am not sure he is well. I feel
any association with him is not in my best
interest.
Abby
--------------------------------------------------------
: Pastor Dave Raymond
Consider your dust kicked off my shoes, You are
less than rational. I will no longer respond to
your whines. Blessings to you.
Abby
-------------------------------------------------------------
You are delusional.
Abby
---------------------------------------------------
You can locate any of the above posts by using a line from the post, and
the author as Jeannette or Abby.
To use gogle search:
go to google, goto groups, advanced search.
http://www.google.com/advanced_group_search?hl=en
type in the phrase or word you are searching for,
(Feather can show you some tricks, if you ask her)
type in the group to be searched: alt.christnet.christianlife
type in author
select 'english'
select 3 months
select 100 results
google may eliminate some search results due to simularity, click on
repeat search and include all results
Those who love Truth search for it, those who hate truth hide from Truth
--
oldwetdog
-----
"Sophistry is not a system of ideas, but a vicious attitude of the
mind." Jacques Maritain
http://www.xprt.net/~servitum/
.
Ben Mitts
> "Ben Mitts" <bmit...@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:412C4BC...@comcast.net...
>
>>Bradley wrote:
>>
>>>"Ben Mitts" <bmit...@comcast.net> wrote in message
>>>news:412C2EC4...@comcast.net
>>>
>>>>I think they call it Post-Modernism!
>>>>If one believes in this theory they
>>>>automatically get to re-invent The
>>>>Word of God, then beat up on the
>>>>Christian beliefs of others!
>>>
>>>
>>>Do you even know what post-modernism is????
>>
>>Why do you ask?
>
>
> Because you didn't kiss his Daddy's arse.
>
>
Never done that yet! Dont ever intend to!
Mark T
> Basically Post Modernism
> in essence, from a street understanding of the term,
> deals with deconstructing Scriptures to change their
> meanings.
Wrong. Next contestant.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Postmodernism for the uninitiated
© 1999 Clare O'Farrell
in Daphne Meamore, Bruce Burnett, Peter O'Brien (eds)
Understanding Education: Contexts and Agendas for the New Millennium,
Sydney: Prentice Hall. pp. 11-17.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
You may have heard the joke: 'what do you get when you cross a mafiosi
with a postmodernist?' The answer of course is 'someone who will make you an
offer you can't understand'. It is the pinnacle of trendiness in much
contemporary writing including the latest theory on education to attach the
word 'post' to as many 'isms' as you can lay your hands on: postcolonialism,
poststructuralism, postindustrialism, postfordism. Feel free to invent your
own 'posts'! The term 'postmodernism', however, has the advantage of being
able to encompass just about all of the aforementioned 'posts', and it is my
aim here in the face of what might seem to be insurmountable difficulties
occasioned by the undeniably weighty concrete boots of 'theory' to attempt
to bring some clarity to the situation.
A quick trip to the library in search of enlightenment only brings
more confusion. Opening a book with the hermetic title Postmodernism and
Heterology, one reads: 'the paradigmatics of and pragmatics of the game, the
philosophies of erotics, and the privilege accorded the work of art and
literature-as players in the critical/theoretical field-have to be related
to the question of writing in post-structuralism' (Pefanis, 1991 p.5). One
need not leave this book open too long! Things are no better when one opens
a book titled Postmodern Education by well known educational theorists
Stanley Aronowitz and Henry Giroux (1991, p.59) one reads: 'briefly put the
postmodern condition refers to the various discursive and structural
transformations that characterise what can be called a postmodernism culture
in the era of late capitalism'. In short, postmodernism is postmodernism, so
there!! Another major problem apart from the mind boggling obscurity of some
of these proponents of the postmodern, is that none of them, it would seem,
can agree over what the term 'postmodern' actually means. Indeed, many would
argue that this very lack of agreement is in itself one of the
distinguishing features of the 'postmodern'.
Modernism
But all is not lost, it is in fact possible to throw some light on
this confused state of affairs and the best place to start is historically,
at the beginning. The term 'postmodern' originally appeared in the domains
of art and architecture and has since spread to the areas of literary and
cultural theory, philosophy and political and educational theory. As you
will note, the word is made up of two components: 'post' (after) and
'modern'. (Incidentally, one can only wonder what comes after the
postmodern: the post-postmodern?, postmodernism cubed? But, I will leave
aside such frivolous speculation for the moment.) It might be best to start
with some definitions of what is meant by 'modern' and then move on to
define how the postmodern differs from this. Generally philosophical
commentators tend to situate the birth of the Modern in the seventeenth and
eighteenth centuries with the Age of Enlightenment or the Age of Reason as
it is often called. However, I might point out that The New Cambridge Modern
History (1957-79) locates the birth of the Modern in the fifteenth century
with the Renaissance. But, for the sake of convenience here, I will locate
the birth of the modern just prior to the Enlightenment in the seventeenth
century with philosopher René Descartes' (1596-1650) famous dictum 'I think,
therefore I am'. This dictum in fact sums up the whole 'Enlightenment
project' as it is often referred to. It is this project that postmodernism
declares is dead and whose final death agonies began in the 1960s. Modernism
has not ceased to expire since then and the collapse of the Soviet Empire
and communism in 1989 has added a further nail to the coffin of a not quite
dead corpse.
So just what is the 'Enlightenment project'? It can in fact be summed
up quite neatly by Descartes' aphorism. This expresses the idea, that
through the use of intellect and reason, principally in the form of science,
humanity can understand the universe and find solutions to all the problems
which plague existence. In other words, the judicious use of reason and our
powers of rational science will eventually solve all our political and
social problems as well as allow us to master our physical environment in
the form of our own bodies as well as the broader natural environment. The
Enlightenment project subscribes to the idea that we can build on our
knowledge as we build a wall with bricks. As the nineteenth century poet
Samuel Taylor Coleridge (1772-1834) would have it knowledge proceeds by
stepping on the shoulders of the giants who went before us: 'the dwarf sees
farther than the giant, when he has the giant's shoulder to mount on'. This
is progress.
Intellectuals, writers, artists, scientists, educators, political
theorists and militants, are all architects of the modern-forever pushing
forward the frontiers of knowledge and experience. The most adventurous
pioneers of the modern are the avant garde who react against the dead weight
of tradition and all that resists the general progress of rational human
enlightenment. Modernism, therefore could be described as an optimistic
project of hoisting ourselves up by our own bootstraps.
But have we in fact hoist ourselves on our own petards? In other words
where has all this 'progress' actually got us? Apart from a more comfortable
life style for a fraction of the world's population, things seem no better,
no more certain than they were before, even after two centuries of mammoth
effort. And what exactly does the idea of 'certainty' mean? If the modernist
project promotes a gradual brick by brick approach to knowledge, it also
promotes the idea that we can eventually work out the 'reason' for the way
things are, the 'truth' of the matter. That is, if we think hard enough and
collect enough information then we might just find that principle of
scientific and social order which would make everything clear and solve all
our problems. If we could just find that one rational and 'unbiased'
curriculum, that infallible method of school discipline the new could
educate children for a perfect society. Further to this, the whole notion of
the 'right' political system (for example 'democracy' or 'communism') and of
the possibility of a definitive 'political solution' for social problems is
a modernist one. The totalitarian regimes which have characterised the
twentieth century are all prime examples of the modernist approach.
Postmodernism
Hence it was that two World Wars, several revolutions and
dictatorships later, some thinkers began to have their doubts. Very well,
they argued, so we have got rid of God and other such unfounded
'superstitions'. We are using our intellects to the maximum and science is
forging ahead, but something is still wrong. Things are not working out as
planned. The idea of a unified rational explanation, of a political or
scientific solution, far from bringing a promised utopia, has instead
resulted in mass slaughter and vast numbers enslaved and excluded from
mainstream society on a scale unprecedented in human history. A schooling
system which promised social equality and enlightenment for all has done
little more than reinforce social division and entrench new forms of
conformity, ignorance and exclusion. Was this the happiness and social
harmony promised by the Enlightenment philosopher Jean-Jacques Rousseau
(1712-1778) and nineteenth century economist Karl Marx (1818-1883)? Was a
devastated natural environment the only outcome of the scientific search to
improve our physical living conditions? Clearly there was something very
wrong indeed with the whole idea that unaided Reason and rationality could
save us, and this is the kind of criticism that the French thinker Michel
Foucault (1926-1984) put forward in his classic 1961 (trans. 1970) work
Madness and Civilisation: A History of Insanity in the Age of Reason.
In this book Foucault argues that Reason created its own power base by
brutally excluding a whole section of the population - the insane, the
debauched, defrocked priests, homosexuals, criminals, prostitutes, single
mothers and any number of other 'unreasonable' people. In the old religious
regime of the Middle Ages, salvation had always been possible because
ultimately only God could judge and read the hearts of men. There was always
the possibility of communication with God and a life beyond death if all
transaction with the rest of the human race failed. In short, the excluded
still had some value, even if only in the eyes of God. Further to this,
those still integrated into society could save their own souls by acting
charitably towards the poor and excluded. But the Age of Reason violently
destroyed even this kind of belonging for the excluded. To be human was to
be rational, therefore those who were not rational were no longer human.
They had no value of any kind except as a warning to those tempted not to
conform, or if they were still physically and mentally able, as a cheap
labour force, little better than subhuman slaves.
In 1967 (trans. 1976), another French thinker Jacques Derrida (1930-)
announced the project of 'deconstruction', in which he set out to show that
at the deepest level, there is no system, no theory, no science or political
system which rests on entirely rational foundations. There is always a point
which precedes reason, a point where one makes an assumption, a declaration
of belief or faith. Even physics is based on an assumption, namely the
belief that matter exists and that it is possible to discover at least some
of its 'laws'. With such damning indictments the postmodern era was born. As
the word 'post' indicates, the claim is that the ideas of the 'modern' era
are no longer valid-that the notion of a central unifying truth is no longer
operative.
But it was Jean François Lyotard (1924-1998), yet another French
thinker, who first popularised the word 'postmodernism' in the domain of
social theory. His book The Postmodern Condition: A Report on Knowledge
(trans. 1984) was originally delivered as a report to the Universities
Council of the government of Quebec in 1979 and focuses extensively on
current and future trends in the areas of knowledge and education. This
extraordinarily influential book is perhaps even more relevant today than it
was in 1979.
The big story ('grand narrative') of modernism, he says, has been
replaced by a whole range of competing 'small stories'. No longer, for
example, can the call: 'a free and equal education for all' provide a
universal rallying point. Instead, we have a collection of quite separate
and isolated groups often with conflicting or even mutually exclusive
beliefs and goals: groups which might include feminists, homosexuals,
environmentalists, neo-Nazis, Christian and Islamic fundamentalists or any
number of other interest groups. It is very hard to mount a modernist
universal call for justice and truth when so many cannot agree over what
these things are or indeed over whether they exist at all.
The term 'postmodern' further describes the rejection of certain types
of 'totalising historical or social schemas' particularly as they have been
inherited from Hegel (1770-1831) and Marx and other nineteenth century
thinkers. It also rejects such notions as the idea that there can only be
one form of education, one form of curriculum suitable for all students and
that all students are rewarded or punished according to their just desserts
by this system. Strictly speaking one could describe postmodernism as a form
of anarchism. It is a rejection of any overarching orderly schema and
explanation. If postmodern fragmentation frees society at least to some
extent from the tyranny of one voice, one ideology and one set of meanings
it also produces a number of other, perhaps less desirable, effects in the
way knowledge and education are perceived and organised. The transition from
modernism to postmodernism is not an easy one and the clash of the two work
views can be seen particularly clearly in the arena of education. As Lyotard
argues, the question asked by the state, by students, by schools and
universities is no longer 'is it true' but 'is this knowledge useful?' In an
environment where money is all, this question also becomes 'how much money
be made out of this knowledge?' and further 'will this knowledge make the
process of making money more efficient? In short , knowledge is no longer
assessed in terms of its truth or falsity or its promotion of justice, but
in terms of its efficiency at making money. AS Lyotard continues, it is only
in the context of the big story of modernism, of '-the life of the spirit
and/or the emancipation of humanity-that the partial replacement of teachers
by machines may seem inadequate or even intolerable' (Lyotard 1984, p.51)
That other great icon of postmodern thought, French sociologist Jean
Baudrillard (1929-), takes the postmodern logic to its radical extreme.
Baudrillard's (1993) work concentrates on the famous 'crisis in
representation'. What this means is that signs-words, concepts and so on-no
longer refer to real material things, they only refer to each other. This is
of course in line with the notorious proclamation by another nineteenth
century philosopher Friedrich Nietzsche (1844-1900) that 'there are no facts
only interpretations'. So, for example when I go to the supermarket to buy a
can of dog food, I am not so much buying the real dog food as the labeled
product: I am buying all those happy television canines bounding through the
fields towards their well groomed, well adjusted masters and mistresses.
Baudrillard argues that there are no longer any links between our sign
systems, or our languages and a central reality or meaning. Advertising
companies sell the image of a car, rather than the car itself. For
Jean-François Lyotard there is still a monolithic system which must be
resisted and fought against. For Baudrillard, this system no longer exists.
All boundaries have already disappeared as the sign 'is liberated for any
archaic obligation to designate anything at all'.
This process can be seen emerging very clearly in the current context
of the 'marketisation' of schooling. In a climate of increasingly reduced
government funding, schools are forced to market themselves to attract
'clients' and money. Glossy brochures, prospectuses and websites all
advertise an 'image' of a school. Prospective 'clients' depending on their
niche in the postmodern diaspora can buy the image of 'tradition',
disciplined middle class respectability and quietly displayed old money.
Alternately they might decide to opt for high tech glitz with all its
promise of excitement, money and membership of a club that excludes others
in its adoption of technobabble code. Or in a world where performance and
representation is all, these prospective clients may choose a school which
offers the tantalising possibility of an entrée into the exclusive and
glamorous world of the performance arts and the media. For the more
communitarian minded, other schools may offer the possibility of a tightly
knit community where all may belong and be cared for. The day to day grind
of actual educational practice is absent here-one buys not an education but
a lifestyle.
Conclusion
It is too late to be either 'for' or 'against' postmodernism-there is
little point in being nostalgic for the old modernist world view ('truth,
justice and the American way') in a society where information technology and
globalisation have set the parameters for performance. Indeed, it has become
increasingly clear in recent years that modernism itself has become nothing
more than one of the many 'small stories' in circulation. Rather than
harking back to old models it might be better to take up the challenge and
ask 'what now?' How can one work to ensure one's freedoms (ability to
choose) in this scenario? A whole range of exciting new possibilities open
up before us. Perhaps we need to go beyond the notion of any rigidly fixed
social identities, no matter how countercultural these might be, and to
engage in an ongoing and open ended process of negotiation. The aim of this
negotiation would not be the kind of vague consensus which is the modernist
ideal, but a negotiation which recognises (rather than merely tolerates)
differences of all kinds and not simply those which are the current flavour
of the month. To speak in even more utopian terms (particularly in a society
which is subject to more and more intense forms of surveillance and
regulation), it should perhaps be a form of negotiation which aims to
maximise the choices (freedoms) of all participants. This is a project which
can be implemented at the most everyday classroom level. Instead of using
education to train students to calmly accept their fate as specialised and
highly regulated workers mindlessly perpetuating an increasingly complex and
hierarchically ordered economy, students should be invited at every possible
to consider and imagine alternative scenarios no matter how seemingly
impractical. After all yesterday's dream is today's reality. If the
education system can be used to train, to prepare willing and competent
workers, it can also be used to invite people to ask questions about what
competence means and about why 'work' and material production is currently
such a high social priority. In short, if education can be a machine for
social conformity, it can also be a machine for the investigation of new
horizons and new possibilities. The proliferation of 'difference' and
uncertainty in the postmodern world, far from being a problem, is a constant
invitation to imagine the unimaginable.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
References
Aronowitz, Stanley and Giroux, Henry A. (1991). Postmodern Education:
Politics, Culture, and Social Criticism. Minneapolis: University of
Minnesota Press.
Baudrillard, Jean (1993). Symbolic Exchange and Death. Translated by
Iain Hamilton Grant; with an introduction by Mike Gane. London: Sage
Derrida, Jacques (1976). Of Grammatology. Translated by Gayatri
Chakravorty Spivak. Baltimore: Johns Hopkins University Press.
Foucault, Michel (1970). Madness and Civilisation: A History of
Insanity in the Age of Reason. Translated by Richard Howard, Introduction by
David Cooper. London: Tavistock.
Lyotard, Jean-François (1984). The Postmodern Condition: A Report on
Knowledge. Translation from the French by Geoff Bennington and Brian Massumi
Manchester: Manchester University Press.
The New Cambridge Modern History (1957-79). Cambridge: Cambridge
University Press.
Pefanis, Julian (1991). Heterology and the Postmodern. North Sydney:
Allen & Unwin.
(: Lawrence Meckan :)
Ooh.. "filth" now these days, is it ?
Perhaps we might see Abby turn into the next Rev. Stevie, complete with FAQ.
> Larry knows we have him pegged.
Presumption, arrogance and your own grandiose chicanery get you nowhere.
> Salvation is NOT for everyone. Only to those God calls for His own. The
> elect. These are the only ones who have God's mercy.
If you actually READ what I said above, I said God's grace is available
to all. It's a different matter entirely on whether or not mankind take
God up on His offer (salvation is by grace, but will man recognise that
grace?). :-)
> If you would read The Book you would have known that, but oh yes....its full
> of errors (which you have yet to prove we have waited and waited and asked
> and asked).
I have read the Book. I know that. You're STILL being too trigger happy
by taking my words and running headlong into your own steel cage with them.
> You are just another idiot like mork, mordecia and a few others
> who hang out here just to divide the brethren.
You are someone who really need to relate better. Childish insults do
nothing for your integrity, character or peace of mind.
lawrence