Worship of Jesus is idolatry
Callodyn Bradlock
any other being apart from God, who is absolutely and fundamentally
ONE in nature, is idolatry.
Those who worship Jesus are comitting an act of idolatry and are
deserving of the death penalty.
The true faith is Noah's covenant for non jewish people (see Genesis
9).
Kind regards
Callodyn Bradlock
Canberra, Australia
Qolon
news:c33c5677.04062...@posting.google.com...
According to the first and second of the Ten Commandments, to worship
any other being apart from God, who is absolutely and fundamentally
ONE in nature, is idolatry.
Those who worship Jesus are comitting an act of idolatry and are
deserving of the death penalty.
The true faith is Noah's covenant for non jewish people (see Genesis
9).
QOLON NOTE:
Dear Callodyn Bradlock aka Daniel Daly,
"And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon {that hears; that obeys},
Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water
for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the
hairs of her head. THOU GAVEST ME NO KISS: BUT THIS WOMAN SINCE THE TIME I
CAME IN HATH NOT CEASED TO KISS MY FEET. My head with oil thou didst not
anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment. Wherefore I say
unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but
to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And he said unto her,
Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say
within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the
woman-GUNE, Thy faith-PISTIS hath saved-SOZO thee; go-POREUOMAI in
peace-EIRENE {prosperity: one, peace, quietness, rest, + set at one again}."
[Luke 7:44-50]
A previous response made on
Wednesday, 17 September 2003 12:20 AM = [#41, #41, #41, #41 - Playing with
Reversal/ Sameness in Difference]
Saturday, 24 April 2004 5:49 PM = [#31, #16, #5, #45 * - Extremes and
Reversals/ Greatest Virtue]
has been given in each of the religious newsgroups, in which you insincerely
asked: "I was wondering if anybody is familiar with the various covenants
that the Torah speaks of. These are Noah's covenant, Abraham's Covenant
and Israel's covenant. All mankind is descended from Noah, so all mankind,
apart from Abraham's seed, are under the covenant of Noah. Noah's covenant
has laws and rules associated with it." ["Daniel Daly"
<saru...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:755bae82.0405...@posting.google.com...]
There was been no response or refutation from you--So I have included an
amended version of one of those posts below and expanded this response to
include the newsgroups to which those responses were made--so that
individuals may be aware of where your theology takes you!
"To say, like the insane talmudic rabbis say, that you have to believe that
these laws were given by God to be righteous is just stupid. This is
now[h]ere recorded in the Torah as being true - it is simply ludicrous
Rabbinic opinion." [Callodyn Bradlock. 18 Jun 2004 01:05:03 -0700]
Clearly what you are saying is NONSENSE... The true faith of Noah's
covenant is related to Sabbath based Jubilee chronology of which extant
literary records as the "Book of Time Divisions as Weeks and Jubilees" (ie.
short title: Book of Jubilees) is related and upon which the Messianic
cryptic prophecy is established.
These documents were also found amongst and therefore corroborated by the
Dead Sea Scrolls as legally a Jewish Sectarian Association--plainly
indicating that your claim to observance of the 10 Commandments as the
foundation to the Everlasting Covenant has exceeded it's chronological
boundaries--AND THAT YOUR OWN RELIGIOUS BELIEF IS IDOLATRY WHICH YOU ARE
ATTEMPTING TO JUSTIFY!
Below is the 10 Commandments given in their chronological, philosophical and
superficial form:
1) Nature contains Nature (FOCUS - The God who took Israel out of
Egypt--there is no other)
2) Nature rejoices in its Nature (EQUITY - Whose likeness is beyond anything
in the Heavens and upon the earth)
3) Nature surmounts Nature (RATIO - As ecliptic cosmological/taxonomical
view: 9(9²+1)/2 = #369 - 3(3²+1)/2 = #15 = #354 typical lunar year is
understood to be connected with the Name of God)
It is against occult hymenealism such as promulgated institutionally by
those who make planentary associations as symbollic theology that the
Biblical narrative [Genesis 1:1-2:25] is directed in retort as Genesis (arch
or the circular apeiron as the infinite), being the view expounded further
by later Greek Judaism: That not only does all occurrence which can be
measured in time come from the apeiron, but the relativity of the time
sequence itself underlies the religious statement that God is 'arch kai
teles', which as the logos, penetrates and rules all being:
1. Begin/Arch/Genesis ... 22/7 = 3W1D [#13, #12, #29, #69 - Profound Use/
The Function of the Mysterious]
4) Nature amended in its Nature [Aleph {1+30+80 = 111 /#6}]
- Nature contains Nature (#1 - 22/7 as 3W1D - Adam)
Remember the Sabbath?
2. Cata {-strophe} ... 26J5W [#79, #26, #30, #9 - The Inconstancy of
Achievement/ Practising Placidity]
5) Act of Nature [Beth {2+10+400 = 412 /#6}]
- Nature rejoices in its Nature (#2 - 26J5W - Noah)
Honor Parents.
3. Generation ... 40J4W [#80, #53, #72, #32 - A Natural Guide/ The Virtue of
Holiness]
6) Form of Nature [Gimel {3+40+30 = 73 /#3}]
- Nature surmounts Nature (#3 - 40J4W as Everlasting Covenant [Hebrews
6:13-20])
Commit no murder
4. Torah Law & Jubilee @ Sinai [50J] - 1550 BCE ... [#38, #38, #40, #20 -
Left without Language/ Different From the Vulgar]
7) Engendering Nature [Daleth {4+30+400 = 434 /#7}]
- Nature amended in its Nature (#4 - 50J [Jubilee & Torah @ Sinai])
Avoid Spiritual Adultery
5. Artaxerxes' decree as Hebrew's return from Babylonian Exile & Pythagorean
use of YHWH Tetragrammation [72J] + 3(3²+1)/2=[2W1D]} -#3 = 457 BCE ... #10
= 33 CE [#9, #31, #51, #61 - Virtuosity at Using 'Beneath'/ The Virtue of
Humility]
8) Transforming Nature [He {5+1 = 6 /#6}]
- Act of Nature (#5 - Pythagorean Tetragrammation of 'YHWH' as {72J} +
3(3²+1)/2 as 15 Units {2W1D} = {72J2W1D} - 457 BCE)
Do Not Steal
6. Jesus of Nazareth in midst 69th Week = 30 CE as [10J] = 490 years - 33 CE
... [#3, #20, #52, #73 - Employing Deeming/ Daring to Act]
9) Autonomous Nature [Waw {6+6 = 12 /#5}]
- Form of Nature (#6 - 70 weeks cryptic Messianic prophecy in midst of
69th week - 30CE being that 10J = 490 years = 33 CE)
Bear No False Witness
7. Telos [122J3W1D] - 6,000 years + {9(9²+1)/2=[52W5D]} ... [#71, #80, #45,
#35 - Great Guiding Signs?/ The Virtue of Benevolence]
10) Totality of Nature [Zayin {7+10+50 = 67 /#4}]
- Engendering Nature (#7 - Telos Topical year/day solar eclipse Monday
25 December, 2000 + 6 days = 122J3W1D : 6,000 / 666 = 9.009 ... (6
remaining)) ... 9(9² +1)/2 = 369 {52W5D or 9 x 41} days with center #41 Mem
= Thursday, 13-17 September, 2001 [#41, #41, #41, #41 - Playing with
Reversal/ #41, #41. Occurring with a further apogee + 2300 days = 31
December, 2007]
Do Not Covet.
Various forms of Magic were nebulously condemned by the Talmud but permitted
were those associated with the use of "the Laws of Creation", a term which
was later interpreted to signify the mystical names of God and the angels:
"Moses Isserles (born 1520, Krakow, Poland died May 1, 1572 as rabbi,
philosopher and scholar who published a commentary on the Zohar was
considered the "Maimonides of Polish Jewry") who brings us closer to an
understanding of what the forbidden 'magic' was. 'The roots of the
[magical] arts are three,' he wrote, 'God, science, and nature... From God
comes... the power to invoke the heavenly princes by means of the holy
names; the scientific root may be illustrated by astrology, by which a man
can foretell the future, make talismans, and subdue the spirits annd the
powers of the stars and the like; on natural elements depends the
effectiveness of the various types of magic, all of which consist in
bringing out the inner nature of things, whereby an expert may perform deeds
strange in appearance...'
MAGIC SQUARES & THEIR PLANETARY CORRESPONDENCES
#3 (sum = 15) - Saturn
#4 (sum = 34) - Jupiter
#5 (sum = 65) - Mars
#6 (sum = 111) - Sun
#7 (sum = 175) - Venus
#8 (sum = 260) - Mercury
#9 (sum = 369) - Luna
This classification is not definative, for Isserles failed to include the
demonic 'root' of magic; his inclusion of astrology, however, which was well
known in Talmudic times but did not enter into the central discussions of
magic, is significant of the place of that science in particular and the
divinatory arts generally in medieval magic." [Joshua Trachtenberg, © 1939
Behrman's Jewish Book House, The Truth Behind the Legend, Jewish Magic and
Superstition, p 20 - 21]
Being further sustained by a symbolic theology derived from the Pythagorean
use of the Triangulation of Number: n(n+1)/2 as transposition applied to the
Tetragrammation of 'YHWH' and known as the root of nature or Tetractys, the
'Holy Four-fold Form' ie.
Yod (10) as 4(4+1)/2 = 10 +
Yod (10) + He (5) as 5(5+1)/2 = 15 +
Yod (10) + He (5) + Vav (6) as 6(6+1)/2 = 21 +
Yod (10) + He (5) + Vav (6) + He (5) = 26 and total of 72 (ie. 472 BCE) [c.
57/58 CE in Romans 2:17-24 ] and existing prior to the year 457 BCE
(72J2W1D) from whence the Hebrews had made several popluation repatriations
to Jerusalem from Babylonian exile [c. 400 BCE in Ezra 2:1-2; Nehemiah
7:6-7; 450 BCE in Esther 9:6-15].
And indeed the scientific basis of astrology within medieval europe as the
source of natural divination is established by their representing in a
tabular form given by Theodore de Bry in 1582 CE, as his depiction of the
astronomer and scientist Tycho Brahe's (1546-1601 CE) Perpetual Calendar of
Natural Magic, as the 'Calendarium Naturale Magicum Perpetuum Profunissimam
Rerum Secretissimarum Contemplationem Complectens of Tycho'.
These symbolic taxonomical and astrological associations pervaded the time
of the adoption of the Gregorian calender reforms of 1582 CE and are related
to the usage of the following Kabbalistic celestial hierarchy [Ephesians
6:12}: {
#1 - Seraphim (Metatron or Mithra - Soul of the Messiah) [#11, #2, #37,
#47 - Ignorant Guides/ Viewing the Distant/ #1, #81]
#2 - Cherubim (Ophaniel - Sandolphon {Gk. co-brother}) [#16, #6, #6, #57 -
Laissez Faire Politics/ Simplicity In Habits/ #10, #72]
#3 - Thrones (Zaphkiel/Saturn - Albumasaris [787-886 CE]) [#15, #7, #47,
#67 - Three Treasures/ #19, #63]
#4 - Dominion (Zadkiel/Jupiter - Pythagoras [c. 580/570-500 BCE]) [#56,
#8, #16, #77 - The Natural Guide/ Heaven's Reason/ #28, #54]
#5 - Potestates (Camael/Mars - Ptolemy [c. 85-160 CE]) [#61, #73, #57,
#6 - The Superiority of the Female/ The Completion of Form/ #37, #45]
#6 - Virtues (Raphael/Sun - Anthidonis) [#60, #72, #26, #16 - Being a
Guide/ Returning to the Root/ #46, #36]
#7 - Principalities (Haniel/Venus - Plato [428-348 BCE]) [#47, #68, #67,
#26 - Ambiguous Reversals/ The Virtue of Gravity/ #55, #27]
#8 - Archangels (Michael/Mercury - Aristotle [384-322 BCE]) [#52, #67,
#36, #36 - Natural Reversals/ The 'Secret' Explanation/ #54, #18]
#9 - Angels (Gabriel/Moon - Hali) [#51, #66, #77, #37 - Non-Deeming
Action/ Administration of Government/ #73, #9]
} derived from a dependency on Greek philosophy and the Arabic astrology of
Abu Ma'shar (Abu Ma'shar Ja'far ibn Muhammad ibn 'Umar al-alkhi) (787-886
CE) which itself has a Persian and Indian, if not a Mithratic source,
exploiting for the first time the translation from the Greek language of
Ptolemy's (c. 85-160 CE) astronomical works.
- dolf
- <http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html#AXIOM4>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Qolon" <te...@bigpond.com>
Newsgroups: aus.religion.christian
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2004 10:48 PM
Subject: Re: Torah Covenants
A reply has been given to you in every newsgroup in which you posted you
enquiry, but so far there has been no response from you.
- dolf
"Daniel Daly" <saru...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:755bae82.04050...@posting.google.com...
HI all
I was wondering if anybody is familiar with the various covenants that
the Torah speaks of. These are Noah's covenant, Abraham's Covenant
and Israel's covenant. All mankind is descended from Noah, so all
mankind, apart from Abraham's seed, are under the covenant of Noah.
Noah's covenant has laws and rules associated with it. Information on
the covenant can be found at the following web address:
http://www.geocities.com/torahcovenants
Feel free to contact me regarding it.
Kind regards
Daniel Daly
Canberra, Australia
email: saru...@hotmail.com
QOLON NOTE:
The difficulty with Noah's covenant is that modern Judaism appears to have
constructed an alternate and literal interpretation as extrapolation of the
seven laws, but dismisses or ignores the reality expressed within the
pre-New Covenant of Damascus era literature as an alternate Genesis treatise
called 'Time Divisions according to Jubilees and Weeks' which was found
amongst the Dead Sea Scrolls of Qumran. And this treatise shares with the
Yahad Dead Sea Scrolls community, the same chronological conception
regarding an annual lunar/solar inter-relational computation of 364 days as
52 weeks rather than 365.25 adopted by the Romans within 46 BCE as the
Julian calendar. It appears to be the mechanism of synchronisation between
the lunar and solar cycles and the perennial basis to reason, faith and
mechanism for governance, which is claimed within the document to be not
only observed by Noah but in perpetuity. It gives explicit warning that
because the typical lunar cycle was 10 days shorter, it would cause later
generations to sin.
The sin being the adoption of Chaldean symbolic taxonomical associations as
metathesis which is consistently associated with idolatry, and the
possibility that the natural sequence of the Hebrew taxonomy when arrayed as
a (3 x 7) matrix is in effect a treatise on the quadruple form #369 Matrix
as 'a priori' or polemic on the First Cause and Divine Providence, to which
the chronological and theological conception: Ages of the World (cf: 'the
end-SUNTELEIA of the world-AION' [Matthew 13:34-43]) and an ontological
overlay as the generations from Adam to the sons of Jacob, is historically
applied as retort to hymeneal mystical practice as idolatry. [cf: 4Q180 -
The Ages of the World, Frag 1:1-5 + 4Q181 Frag. 2:1; Genesis 49:1; Psalm
78:1-8]
And when Israel turned from sin and returned from exile, the Dead Sea Scroll
fragment '4Q390 as Prophetic Apocryphon or 4QPseudo-Moses' speaks further of
it as repatriations associated with Jubilee chronology ('in the seventh
Jubilee' as 343 years) transpiring with both Zerubbabel's rebuilding of the
2nd Jerusalem Temple ('those who will be the first to go up from the land of
captivity in order to build the temple') under an initial decree from King
Darius I in circa 520 BCE [#49, #46, #59, #39 - Achieving Oneness/ The Root
of Order/ #57, #25]. And under subsequent decree from King Artaxerxes in
72J2W1D = 457 BCE [#9, #31, #51, #61 - Virtuosity at Using 'Beneath'/ The
Virtue of Humility/ #59, #23], allowing the restoration of the Judicatory
and Adminstrative Process in accordance with the Laws of Moses: ('I will
speak to them and send them a precept / commandment and they will understand
all that they have abandoned, they and their fathers').
The specific reference relating to Noah is as follows:
"(discussion on the Noah laws)...And He gave to Noah and his sons a sign
that there should not again be a flood on the earth. He set His bow in the
cloud for a sign of the eternal covenant that there should not again be a
flood on the earth to destroy it all the days of the earth. For this reason
it is ordained and written on the heavenly tablets {ie. its my view that the
quadruple form vMeme/Moment Matrix may have something to do with this-
<http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html#AXIOM4>}, that
they should celebrate the feast of weeks in this month once a year, to renew
the covenant every year. And this whole festival was celebrated in heaven
from the day of creation till the days of Noah -twenty-six jubilees and five
weeks of years {ie. 26J5W as 26 x 49 + 5 x 7 =} [1309-1659 A.M.]: and Noah
and his sons observed it for seven jubilees and one week of years {ie. 7J1W
= 350 years + 1309 = 1659 years}, till the day of Noah's death, and from the
day of Noah's death his sons did away with (it) until the days of Abraham,
and they eat blood. But Abraham observed it, and Isaac and Jacob and his
children observed it up to thy days, and in thy days the children of Israel
forgot it until ye celebrated it anew on this mountain.
And do thou command the children of Israel to observe this festival in all
their generations for a commandment unto them: one day in the year in this
month they shall celebrate the festival. For it is the feast of weeks and
the feast of first fruits: {
ie. The usual spring Equinox on 21 March as 1 Nissan, 5756 is a reprise of
19 year lunar leap year cycle {3, 6, 8, 11, 14, 17, 19} + 30 day
intercalation. With the fifteenth of Nisan beginning Hag HaMatzah (the
Feast of Unleavened Bread), which is a high sabbath, a shabbaton . It is a
seven day feast to the L-rd. The day following the sabbath during Passover
is called the Feast of First Fruits (Leviticus 23:10-11)
} this feast is twofold and of a double nature: according to what is written
and engraven concerning it, celebrate it. For I have written in the book of
the first law, in that which I have written for thee, that thou shouldst
celebrate it in its season, one day in the year, and I explained to thee its
sacrifices that the children of Israel should remember and should celebrate
it throughout their generations in this month, one day in every year.
And on the new moon of the first month {ie. Nisan as beginning of the
religious year}, and on the new moon of the fourth month {
ie. Summer solstice occuring on 21 June. Tammuz occuring within June or
July and appears to negate pagan Egyptian practice as the observance of the
heliacal rising of the Sirius (Isis) star as the beginning of the Egyptian
decan calendar. Because of of the effect of astronomical precession, the
event of the helical rising of Sirius shifted along the calendar at
approximately the rate of 8.5 days every 1000 years. In 3300 BC the heliacal
rising of Sirius occurred on the 21 June (Gregorian) as seen from Giza. When
Jesus was born the heliacal rising of Sirius occurred on the 19 July, and
today it occurs on the 5 August. cf:
<http://www.robertbauval.com/articles/article3.html>
}, and on the new moon of the seventh month {ie. The Autumn Equinox on 21
September with 1 Trishi leading to Yom Kippur on the 10th}, and on the new
moon of the tenth month {ie. Winter Solstice on 21 December with Hanukkah in
month of Tevet} are the days of remembrance, and the days of the seasons in
the four divisions of the year {ie. months were comprised of 4 groups of
30+30+31 days and synchronises on:
1st of Nisan
Wed 21/3/2001 + 91
Wed 20/6/2001 + 91
Wed 19/9/01 + 91
Wed 19/12/01 + 91
Wed 20/3/02.
1st of Topical Year
Mon 1/1/2001 + 91
Mon 2/4/2001 + 91
Mon 2/7/2001 + 60 [= 1 September, 2001] + 31
Mon 1/10/2001 + 91
Mon 31/12/01
These are written and ordained as a testimony for ever. And Noah ordained
them for himself as feasts for the generations for ever, so that they have
become thereby a memorial unto him. And on the new moon of the first month
he was bidden to make for himself an ark, and on that (day) the earth became
dry and he opened (the ark) and saw the earth. And on the new moon of the
fourth month the mouths of the depths of the abyss beneath were closed. And
on the new moon of the seventh month all the mouths of the abysses of the
earth were opened, and the waters began to descend into them. And on the new
moon of the tenth month the tops of the mountains were seen, and Noah was
glad.
And on this account he ordained them for himself as feasts for a memorial
for ever, and thus are they ordained. And they placed them on the heavenly
tablets, each had thirteen weeks {ie. 13 x 4 = 52 weeks or 364 days}; from
one to another (passed) their memorial, from the first to the second, and
from the second to the third, and from the third to the fourth. And all the
days of the commandment will be two and fifty weeks of days, and (these will
make) the entire year complete.
Thus it is engraven and ordained on the heavenly tablets. And there is no
neglecting (this commandment) for a single year or from year to year.
And command thou the children of Israel that they observe the years
according to this reckoning- three hundred and sixty-four days, and (these)
will constitute a complete year, and they will not disturb its time from its
days and from its feasts; for everything will fall out in them according to
their testimony, and they will not leave out any day nor disturb any feasts.
But if they do neglect and do not observe them according to His commandment,
then they will disturb all their seasons and the years will be dislodged
from this (order), [and they will disturb the seasons and the years will be
dislodged] and they will neglect their ordinances. And all the children of
Israel will forget and will not find the path of the years, and will forget
the new moons, and seasons, and sabbaths and they will go wrong as to all
the order of the years. {ie.
This chronological cycle appears to have been observed by King David (c.
1040-970 BCE) and is as follows:
"The LORD-YAHWEH gave [King David circa 1040-970 BCE] a brilliant and
discerning spirit, so that he wrote: psalms, three thousand six hundred;
songs to sing before the altar accompanying the daily perpetual burnt
offering, for all the days of the year, three hundred and sixty-four; {
The Hebrew Calendar Synchronizes as follows:
354 [typical lunar year] x 3 + 30 [Intercalation] =
3 x 364 days each year [52 weeks each] =
2 x #369 vMeme/Moment calendar matrix [ie. 9(9²+1)/2] + 354 [typical lunar
year] = 1092 days
1092 days x 2 = 2184 days {ie. approximately 6 years} / 168 {ie. 24 x 7
days} = 13 instances of a weekly service per Priestly Division [1Chronicles
24:7-19; Luke 1:5, 8-11]
LENGTH OF HEBREW LUNAR YEAR RELATIVE TO SOLAR YEAR
1996 #B0 = 1093 days (1 Nisan = 21 March)
1997 #C0 = 1122 days (19 - leap year)
1998 #A1 = 1092 days (1)
1999 #B1 = 1092 days (2)
2000 #C1 = 1094 days (3 - leap year)
2001 #A2 = 1093 days (4)
2002 #B2 = 1092 days (5)
2003 #C2 = 1092 days (6 - leap year)
2004 #A3 = 1094 days (7)
2005 #B3 = 1123 days (8 - leap year)
2006 #C3 = 1092 days (9)
2007 #A4 = 1092 days (10)
2008 #B4 = 1092 days (11 - leap year)
2009 #C4 = 1092 days (12)
2010 #A5 = 1092 days (13)
2011 #B5 = 1094 days (14 - leap year)
2012 #C5 = 1094 days (15)
2013 #A6 = 1092 days (16)
2014 #B6 = 1092 days (17 - leap year)
2015 #C6 = 1092 days (1 Nisan = 21 March)
2016 #A7 = 1124 days (19 - leap year)
} for the Sabbath offerings, fifty-two songs; and for the New Moon
offerings, all the festival days, and the Day of Atonement, thirty songs."
[Dead Sea Scrolls, Apocryphal Psalms of David, 11Q5 Col. 27:2-8]
Given that a total solar eclipse occurs in conjunction with a new moon, the
synchronisation of this 9(9²+1)/2 = #369 vMeme/Moment matrix as magic square
with our experience of the space/time continuum as lunar/solar cycles may
empirically be said to occur as follows:
Last total solar eclipse for Millennium on 11 August 1999 + 30 days
Commencement of 1092-day cycle: 354 day [typical lunar year] x 3 + 30 days
[Intercalation]
1 Tishri 5760 = 11-12 September 1999 + 385 day lunar year =
1 Tishri 5761 = 30 September-1 October 2000 + 353 day lunar year =
Topical year/day solar eclipse on 25 December 2000 + 6 days
2 x 9(9²+1)/2 (ie. #369 vMeme/Moment matrix) as 738 days =
1 Tishri 5762 = 18-19 September, 2001 + 354 day lunar year =
1 Tishri 5763 = 7-8 September 2002 = 1092 days
Australia's 1st Geodesic total solar eclipse 4 December 2002
Australia's 2nd Geodesic total solar eclipse 25 November 2030
Or more precisely as last day of the Hebrew lunar year: 10/9/1999 to
29/9/2000 (385 days)+17/9/2001 (353 days)+6/9/2002 (354 days) = 1092 days
[See enclosed folio relating to the Metaphysical or Esoteric Theology of the
Hebrews as the Regulative Philosophic principles underpinning the Letters
Patent to the Australian Constitution -
<http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html#AXIOM4>]
} For I know and from henceforth will I declare it unto thee, and it is not
of my own devising; for the book (lies) written before me, and on the
heavenly tablets the division of days is ordained, lest they forget the
feasts of the covenant and walk according to the feasts of the Gentiles
after their error and after their ignorance. For there will be those who
will assuredly make observations of the moon -how (it) disturbs the seasons
and comes in from year to year ten days too soon {ie. typically 354 days
instead of 364 days}.
For this reason the years will come upon them when they will disturb (the
order), and make an abominable (day) the day of testimony, and an unclean
day a feast day, and they will confound all the days, the holy with the
unclean, and the unclean day with the holy; for they will go wrong as to the
months and sabbaths and feasts and jubilees. For this reason I command and
testify to thee that thou mayst testify to them; for after thy death thy
children will disturb (them), so that they will not make the year three
hundred and sixty-four days only, and for this reason they will go wrong as
to the new moons and seasons and sabbaths and festivals, and they will eat
all kinds of blood with all kinds of flesh." [Book of Jubilees 7:15-38]
- dolf
Barry OGrady
>According to the first and second of the Ten Commandments, to worship
>any other being apart from God, who is absolutely and fundamentally
>ONE in nature, is idolatry.
>
>Those who worship Jesus are comitting an act of idolatry and are
>deserving of the death penalty.
Nothing is worthy of worship. God is worthy only of condemnation.
>The true faith is Noah's covenant for non jewish people (see Genesis 9).
Trust in yourself.
>Kind regards
>
>Callodyn Bradlock
>Canberra, Australia
Australians are mostly non religious. We reject the Christian mythology.
-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.optusnet.com.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.
Raymond
> According to the first and second of the Ten Commandments, to worship
> any other being apart from God, who is absolutely and fundamentally
> ONE in nature, is idolatry.
>
> Those who worship Jesus are comitting an act of idolatry and are
> deserving of the death penalty.
>
> The true faith is Noah's covenant for non jewish people (see Genesis
> 9).
>
The problem is Jesus is God, God came in the form of a man, and even
the Apostle Thomas said "Oh Lord and my God" addressing Jesus. Now in
Jesus we have the human, Son of Man, and such should not be worshiped,
then no body is to be worshipped, but at the same time the Spirit of
Christ is the Spirit of God, and not to worship Jesus as God would be
sin. Idolatry has nothing to do with this. Jesus told the people to
believe in ONE GOD, and the Bible says that ONE GOD was dwelling in
JESUS, the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Him. Jesus told one
person, if you see me, you see God, because Jesus is the expressed
image of God.
To disobey the Bible is sin, and to tell others not to do as the bible
says is evil and not of God.
In Jesus my Lord and Saviour,
Raymond
Callodyn Bradlock
> the Apostle Thomas said "Oh Lord and my God" addressing Jesus. Now in
> Jesus we have the human, Son of Man, and such should not be worshiped,
> then no body is to be worshipped, but at the same time the Spirit of
> Christ is the Spirit of God, and not to worship Jesus as God would be
> sin. Idolatry has nothing to do with this. Jesus told the people to
> believe in ONE GOD, and the Bible says that ONE GOD was dwelling in
> JESUS, the fullness of the Godhead dwells in Him. Jesus told one
> person, if you see me, you see God, because Jesus is the expressed
> image of God.
>
> To disobey the Bible is sin, and to tell others not to do as the bible
> says is evil and not of God.
>
> In Jesus my Lord and Saviour,
The theology you are defending is Pentecostal "Oneness" theology,
which believes that in Jesus dwells all the fullness of the Godhead
(col 2:9). I studied this theology a great deal when I was a
Pentecostal in the United Pentecostal Church (a oneness church). The
bottom line is that it is not what the New Testament teaches. For
example, 1 Corinthians 8:6 speaks plainly of one God, the Father, and
one Lord, Jesus Christ, son of the Father. Jesus prayed to the
Father. All throughout the New Testament you see a distinction
between the Father and the Son. If you would like an in-depth
examination of oneness theology compared to the True Christian
theology of God, check out the following web link:
http://www.geocities.com/unitarianpentecostal/AnsweringOnenessBelievers.htm
The article was written by myself when I was a Christian.
So, because the new testament speaks of a DUALITY of God (ie Father
and Son), it does not really harmonise with the fundamental
monotheistic principle that God is one. Whatever way you look at it,
Jesus is another God before YHWH, and that is idolatry. To believe
anything else you are just deceiving yourself.
Kind regards
Callodyn Bradlock
Canberra, Australia
Email: valan...@hotmail.com
Raymond
Oneness Theology, nice escape goat answer. Since the verse is in the
Bible and not an invention of some person like the Trinity is, it can
not be said to be Oneness Theology. Then I really do not care what
the UPCI has to say on the matter. There is a distinction between the
Father and the Son, which is why the bible says Son of God and Son of
Man. The oneness of God dwelling in His only Human body made of a
woman and that is Jesus Christ. The nature of God as Spirit and as
found in the man Christ Jesus. You seem to toss out the whole just
because was dwelled, lived was in Christ Jesus when you see Jesus as a
human also. Oh I just love you guys, when you can not disprove the
Bible you just say "True Christian Theology" get a life. That means
nothing just a run and hide tactics. I have done much in-dept
examination on the Oneness and the UPCI teachings on this matter. A
good book to buy would be "Christianity without the Cross, A History
of Salvation in Oneness Pentecostalism" by Dr. Thomas A. Fudge.
University of Canterbury, New Zealand. Published by the Universal
Publishers, Parkland, Florida. Which covers the Oneness covers the
argument on this matter. Dr.Thomas Fudge holds a B.A, M.D, also a PhD
in theology a PhD in History from the University of Cambridge UK and
others. He is also the author of many books. If you want to follow
this up, check this website. www.upublish.com/books/fudge.htm to get
a review about this matter.
>
> http://www.geocities.com/unitarianpentecostal/AnsweringOnenessBelievers.htm
Better to get the answers from the people that teach the matter, then
them that do not believe in it. Like asking the Pope to show the
truth about Protestants. Then Unitarian and Oneness are not the same,
again like asking a Trinitarian to show the truths of Oneness
teachings. I dare say the writer of such did not study the matter in
an Oneness Pentecostal Bible College and has a personal knowledge on
such a subject. Dr. Thomas Fudge does.
>
> The article was written by myself when I was a Christian.
Sorry if you wrote such to disprove the bible, you never were a
Christian, except maybe in name only. Then telling me about such, to
disprove what you said you did believe, only shows the errors in them
that taught you.
>
>
> So, because the new testament speaks of a DUALITY of God (ie Father
> and Son), it does not really harmonise with the fundamental
> monotheistic principle that God is one. Whatever way you look at it,
> Jesus is another God before YHWH, and that is idolatry. To believe
> anything else you are just deceiving yourself.
Sure it does harmonize, and just because you say it doesn't, really
means nothing or changes anything either. I look at it from all
ways, as I was not always a Christian, in fact I opposed the Church
not only the UPCI but all of them, for years, till Jesus my Lord and
Saviour got a hold of me, and I know the truth that does set on free.
God is ONE, God became a man to save mankind and pay the price for
sin, God can not die, and Jesus did, God in Christ, paid for the sin
of the World. Only ONE GOD, not more, not less, Just One, then as
Jesus said, if you see him, you seen God. I and the Father are ONE,
not two or more. The idolatry is denying that God is omnipresent in
all, all times, no place that is without God. No limit to location or
being. I just love it, with these silly statements you make, "Believe
anything else you are just deceiving yourself" Totally false,
ridiculous remarks, to justify your false teachings, get real. The
Bible has the answer, and then your UPCI back ground does give you a
reason to question, then read Dr. Fudge if you want some real answers.
>
> Kind regards
>
> Callodyn Bradlock
> Canberra, Australia
> Email: valan...@hotmail.com
Raymond Knapp
www.pioneers-for-jesus.org
Qolon
resolve the dilemma as a failed Pentecostal, that one can't partake of the
Holy Spirit twice and claim it as the seal of truth for both.
- dolf
"Raymond" <rwk...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:53592110.04062...@posting.google.com...
Callodyn Bradlock
YOU WROTE
> I wonder if Callodyn Bradlock (aka Daniel Daly) has ever been able to
> resolve the dilemma as a failed Pentecostal, that one can't partake of the
> Holy Spirit twice and claim it as the seal of truth for both.
>
MY RESPONSE
The Holy Spirit of Christianity is nothing more than a collection of
renegade angels (demons if you will) filling their victims with
spiritual matter. I know all about it, having encountered it a great
deal as a christian, and in a limited manner since. These
pentecostals and other christians who claim to receive the "HOLY
SPIRIT" are in fact deceieved children of Satan. He gives them a
spiritual rush, and christians then think they HAVE the Spirit. No,
they do not have the spirit of truth, but rather a spirit of idolatry.
Worship of Jesus is a grave sin, and God (YHWH) would never anoint
such an unholy practice.
And on the issue of the theolgy of God you defend - you seem to be
biblical unitarian then, rather than oneness. This is closer to the
mark of the original christian doctrine on God - but still not quite.
You claim to have had an encounter with Jesus. I would suggest that
you rethink this episode - it was more probably a demonic delusion.
God never anoints the devils religions which Christianity is.
Kind regards
Callodyn Bradlock
Canberra, Australia
email: valan...@hotmail.com
Qolon
{ie.
autos / one's true self, the soul + nomos / Torah viz. the mathematical
9(9²+1)/2 = #369 a fourfold vMeme/Moment Kabbalistic Matrix, being the basis
for a theological, metaphysical philosophical and chronological paradigm
} speech of the Pentecostals (and even Seventh-day Adventist's such as Tim
Veach moderator of Adventist Interactive Forum) which I have many years ago
witnessed amongst a group of those who falsely claimed as an anti-nomian
piety in a meeting held in a theatre temple in Bourke Street, Melbourne:
"The quasi-automatic speech of a maggid {ie. Angelic voice as the Answering
Angel invoked amongst the Kabbalists of 16th century Safed, Palestine} is
not altogether different from current Pentecostalism, but that is not a
Jewish phenomenon, and Karo's maggid is fiercely intellectual, in contrast
to Pentecostalists who [claim to] speak with the tongues of men and of
angels. The paradox of a rational (rather than rationalised) mode of
possession by the Answering Angel remains to be investigated." [Harold Bloom
© 1996 Omens of Millennium, p 90-91]
It seems that many esteemed theologians such a Thomas Aquinas (1224-1275 CE)
quoted the angelic hierarchy publicised by the non-Christian and
neo-platonist Dionysius some 1,700 times, which simply would not have
happened if only the great Scholastic had known that the author had written
five centuries after the Hebrew Torah Scholar, Greek Philosopher and
Christian Apostle Paul had converted the as-it-were original Dionysius the
Areopagite. It was not unto 1457 CE, almost two centuries after the death
of Aquinas, that the scholar Lorenzo Valla exposed the forgery, but by then
the false Areopagite had shaped the Catholic hierarchy of the angels with
rare permanence." [© 1996 Harold Bloom, Omens of the Millennium, 58-59]
This Angelic Hierarchy is as an a priori based teleological argument
represented mathematically 9(9²+1)/2 = #369 a fourfold vMeme/Moment
Kabbalistic Matrix, being the basis for a theological, metaphysical
philosophical and chronological retort-- a 369 day chronological and math
ematical matrix known from antiquity as the Merkabah (ie. Kabbalistic)
mystical (transcendent and metaphysical) foundation for a perennial
solar/lunar [ie. 9(9²+1)/2 (#369) - 3(3²+1)/2 (#15) = 354 lunar cycle] and
organizational philosophy uniting reason and faith.
It can be therefore be considered that no aspect of Roman Catholic theology
promulgated by Thomas Aquinas has merit in matters of soul--and human,
religious and Constitutional rights abuses encouraged by the Church's
ecclesiastical authorities such as Cardinal George Pell are not only
unlawful but without merit as a claim to Christianity. For which notice has
been served upon the Roman Catholic Church on 7 November, 2003 and 29
December, 2003 with the view of pursuing them for undisclosed damages
related to the infringement of proprietary rights and outstanding licensing
fees.
"Matrimony gives the graces necessary for those who are to rear children in
the love and fear of God, members of the Church militant, future citizens of
heaven. This is St. Thomas Aquinas's explanation of the fitness of the
number seven. He gives other explanations offered by the Schoolmen, but does
not bind himself to any of them. In fact the only sufficient reason for the
existence of seven sacraments, and no more, is the will of Christ: there are
seven because He instituted seven. The explanations and adaptations of
theologians serve only to excite our admiration and gratitude, by showing
how wisely and beneficently God has provided for our spiritual needs in
these seven efficacious signs of grace." [Catholic Encyclopedia
'Sacraments', IV 3a]
"Again, since the principles of certain sciences--of logic, geometry, and
arithmetic, for instance--are derived exclusively from the formal principles
of things [Pythagoras' theory of Numbers], upon which their essence depends,
it follows that God cannot make the genus not to be predictable of the
species, nor lines drawn from the circle's center to its circumference not
to be equal, nor the three angles of a rectiliner triangle not to be equal
to two right angles." ['Omnipotence' - Summa Contra Gentiles, St Thomas
Aquinas (c. 13th century); cf Stump & Murray, Philosophy of Religion, The
Big Questions, p 8]
"Matrimony did indeed exist under the Old Law, as a function of nature, but
not as the sacrament of the union of Christ with the Church, for that union
was not as yet brought about. Hence under the Old Law it was allowable to
give a bill of divorce, which is contrary to the nature of the sacrament."
[St. Thomas Aquinas, The Summa Theologica, Reply to Objection 3]
Having consideration to the maxim of Saint Thomas Aquinas concerning the
sources of knowledge as two, being--reason and revelation, one can only
wonder as to the nature of their 'object of enjoyment' as the foundation for
biblical hermeneutics--if not the canon of Scripture known as the 10
Commandments--what then? [Romans 16:17-20]
- dolf
- <http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/vkabbalah.html>
"Callodyn Bradlock" <xadin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c33c5677.04070...@posting.google.com...
Greetings
YOU WROTE
> I wonder if Callodyn Bradlock (aka Daniel Daly) has ever been able to
> resolve the dilemma as a failed Pentecostal, that one can't partake of the
> Holy Spirit twice and claim it as the seal of truth for both.
>
MY RESPONSE
The Holy Spirit of Christianity is nothing more than a collection of
renegade angels (demons if you will) filling their victims with
spiritual matter. I know all about it, having encountered it a great
deal as a christian, and in a limited manner since. These
pentecostals and other christians who claim to receive the "HOLY
SPIRIT" are in fact deceived children of Satan. He gives them a
Barry OGrady
>Harold Bloom raises an interesting perspective concerning the autonomous
>{ie.
Fascinating, Dolt. Now go away.
>- dolt
-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og
Qolon
who themselves has the X-No-Archive attribute set, seems to have
deliberately made a falsification by subscribing words to me that not only
did I not make, they were not part of the discussion, fabricated by them and
which they presume to make in a claim to ethical conduct as the mind of
Christ.
Consequentially advice has been forwarded to: abuse...@frontiernet.net
- dolf
"The Last Church" <re-le...@thelastchurch.org> wrote in message
news:f20ce0dauhv22k5s0...@4ax.com...
I hate people
I don't worship Jesus, he's my brother.
In the mind of Christ, Michael
QOLON NOTE:
What about where he is mentioned as 'Jesus of Nazareth' when as a man he is
then annointed-CHRIO as the same word from whence CHRISTOS is derived?
"Jesus-IESOUS of Nazareth a man-ANER"--"Ye men of Israel, hear these words;
Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved of God among you by miracles and wonders
and signs, which God did by him in the midst of you, as ye yourselves also
know:" [Acts 2:22]
"How God anointed-CHRIO Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with
power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the
devil; for God was with him." [Acts 10:38]
Your theology appears to be in error!
- dolf
"Thomas Hankin" <thomas...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:Xns951A4B1C92565th...@66.185.95.104...
Christ, the God-Man
A professor of theology once asked his students to get a sheet of
paper and divide it into three columns. In the first column they were to
write every passage where Christ is spoken of as God-Man; in the second
column all the passages where Christ is spoken of as God alone; and in the
third, all the passages where Christ is spoken of as man alone. The papers
were badly balanced. The first and second columns filled right up, but as
to the third column, NO ONE FOUND A PASSAGE SPEAKING OF CHRIST AS MAN ALONE.
THERE IS NO SUCH PASSAGE.
from "2000+ Bible Illustrations," Christ: His Deity.
God Bless.
Tom.
PREVIOUS QOLON NOTE:
"Qolon" <te...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:qs9Fc.74976$sj4....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Qolon
individual "The Last Church" <re-le...@thelastchurch.org> who themselves
has the X-No-Archive attribute set, seems to have deliberately made a
falsification by subscribing words to me that not only did I not make, they
were not part of the discussion, fabricated by them and which they presume
to make in a claim to ethical conduct as the mind of Christ. Consequentially
advice has been forwarded to: abuse...@frontiernet.net"
My post to which you have subsequently responded was a comment of your
capacity to deliberately make a falsification of my comments and then
subscribing the quote to me, as if you delusionally hoped it was what I
said. It is what you said, as is this: "You made the statement alright.
You just used different words to say it. Your whole post is a condemnation
of your fellow man." ["The Last Church" <re-le...@thelastchurch.org> on
the Sabbath Day of our Jesus Christ Saturday, July 03, 2004 3:51 PM]
Again you egage in the practice by changing my well founded comment, having
provided support of it by substitution of 'my' for 'your' in the sentence:
"Your theology appears to be in error!" You might like to direct your
consideration on "Son of Man" to Thomas Hankin who quotes "2000+ Bible
Illustrations," on "Christ: His Deity" as being an error when the
publication further subscribing the remarks to a theology professor in
saying, "NO ONE FOUND A PASSAGE SPEAKING OF CHRIST AS MAN ALONE. THERE IS NO
SUCH PASSAGE."
I thought that was rather clear from my post.
- dolf
"Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not
condemn himself in what he approves. But he who doubts is condemned if he
eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is
sin." [Romans 14:22-23]
"The Last Church" <re-le...@thelastchurch.org> wrote in message
news:9fhce09i91207ur16...@4ax.com...
On Sat, 03 Jul 2004 02:23:47 GMT, "Qolon" <te...@bigpond.com> wrote:
><The anonymous individual "The Last Church"
There is nothing anonymous about me...
>< seems to have
><deliberately made a falsification by subscribing words to me that not only
><did I not make,
You made the statement alright. You just used different words to say
it. Your whole post is a condemnation of your fellow man.
><Consequentially advice has been forwarded to: abuse...@frontiernet.net
><- dolf
Be sure and give them my phone number. I bet they have a back log of
you complaining about everyone over the last few years.
Dol[f]! why do you not mention that in the Gospel of Matthew, Jesus refers
to himself as the "Son of Man" In the Gospel of Mark, again Jesus refers to
himself as the "Son of Man". Even in Luke, Jesus constantly refers to
himself as the "Son of Man". In the Gospel of John, Jesus still refers to
himself as the "Son of Man." But in the Four Gospels, Jesus refers to
Himself, as the "Son of Man" 65 times. Who else in the whole bible, is
called "Son of Man"?? Look at the book of Ezekiel. The Prophet Ezekiel is
referred to as the "Son of Man" 88 times. Is Jesus telling us himself, that
he is a prophet, like Ezekiel? Now, read Numbers 23: 19. God is not a man,
that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent. Here you
have God himself saying that God, is not a son of man. But that is what
Jesus constantly tells us, that he is the "Son of Man." So, can you tell us
why the only begotten son of God, constantly refers to himself as the Son of
Man???
Barry OGrady
>On Fri, 02 Jul 2004 08:57:58 GMT, "Qolon" <te...@bigpond.com> wrote:
>> I hate people
>
> I don't worship Jesus, he's my brother.
Thankfully Jesus is not my brother.
Barry OGrady
>The anonymous individual "The Last Church" <re-le...@thelastchurch.org>
>who themselves has the X-No-Archive attribute set, seems to have
>deliberately made a falsification by subscribing words to me that not only
>did I not make, they were not part of the discussion, fabricated by them and
>which they presume to make in a claim to ethical conduct as the mind of
>Christ.
>
>Consequentially advice has been forwarded to: abuse...@frontiernet.net
You will be glad to know that Frontiernet know about you and have had a good laugh
at your expense.
>- dolt
alight
news:<c33c5677.04062...@posting.google.com>...
> > According to the first and second of the Ten Commandments, to worship
> > any other being apart from God, who is absolutely and fundamentally
> > ONE in nature, is idolatry.
> >
> > Those who worship Jesus are comitting an act of idolatry and are
> > deserving of the death penalty.
> >
> > The true faith is Noah's covenant for non jewish people (see Genesis
> > 9).
> >
>
> The problem is Jesus is God, God came in the form of a man, and even
If Jesus is God, and God came in the form of man (which is not written in
scripture).
why then did Jesus have a God if he is God?
very contradictory.
if you look at the context of what is going on, was Thomas telling Jesus who
he is?
OR
Is it a response from his unbelieving heart because he didnt see Jesus till
that time?
I have heard 2 teenagers talking:
1st teenager said something to the 2nd teenager, then the 2nd teenager
answered and said
to the 1st teenager "OH MY GOD".
whoever reads this, they must say WOW, the 1st teenager is God, because the
2nd teenager
said to the 1st teenager "OH MY GOD".
This is no mistake, the 2nd teenager said to the 1st "OH MY GOD". Surely the
1st teenager must be God.
So I ask you Raymond, is the 1st teenager God? For the 1st teenager didn't
stop the 2nd one saying to
him "OH MY GOD".
alight
AMEN
alight
"Qolon" <te...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:2s%Dc.69254$sj4....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Qolon
- dolf
"alight" <sheb...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:ccdi6l$n47$1...@mws-stat-syd.cdn.telstra.com.au...
Oneness and Trinity are Christian cults.
QOLON NOTE:
"Callodyn Bradlock" <xadin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c33c5677.04070...@posting.google.com...
Greetings
YOU WROTE
> I wonder if Callodyn Bradlock (aka Daniel Daly) has ever been able to
> resolve the dilemma as a failed Pentecostal, that one can't partake of the
> Holy Spirit twice and claim it as the seal of truth for both.
>
MY RESPONSE
Not-easily-duped
You did not read Paul no wonder you don't get how Christ and the Law of Moses
are related and that is jesus.YOU ARE A JERK
Not-easily-duped
It might be a sin under the Law of Moses-Torah- but not under Paul
We are under Paul.
Jack SlopehE@d
>
>> "Callodyn Bradlock" <xadin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:c33c5677.04062...@posting.google.com...
>> According to the first and second of the Ten Commandments, to worship
>> any other being apart from God, who is absolutely and fundamentally
>> ONE in nature, is idolatry.
>>
>> Those who worship Jesus are comitting an act of idolatry and are
>> deserving of the death penalty.
>
ignorance is bliss in your world.
Qolon
Virtuosity/ The Virtue of the Mysterious/ #27, #55 = Judah - the praise of
the Lord; confession] responding with a one liner of indeterminate value and
integrity to a post made on 26 June, 2004 [#73, #51, #31, #21 - Guiding and
the Physical/ Emptying the Heart/ #23, #59 = Terah - Station, delay, a
station of Israel in the wilderness/ To breathe; scent; blow].
Why the delay in expressing praise to your Lord?
- dolf
"Not-easily-duped" <Codeb...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:bbba7302.04071...@posting.google.com...
You did not read Paul no wonder you don't get how Christ and the Law of
Moses
are related and that is jesus.YOU ARE A JERK
QOLON NOTE:
Not-easily-duped
> You are anonymously on 14 July, 2004 [#35, #75, #15 *, #56 - Abstruse
> Virtuosity/ The Virtue of the Mysterious/ #27, #55 = Judah - the praise of
> the Lord; confession] responding with a one liner of indeterminate value and
> integrity to a post made on 26 June, 2004 [#73, #51, #31, #21 - Guiding and
> the Physical/ Emptying the Heart/ #23, #59 = Terah - Station, delay, a
> station of Israel in the wilderness/ To breathe; scent; blow].
>
> Why the delay in expressing praise to your Lord?
>
> - dolf
>
> "Not-easily-duped" <Codeb...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
> news:bbba7302.04071...@posting.google.com...
> You did not read Paul no wonder you don't get how Christ and the Law of
> Moses
> are related and that is jesus.YOU ARE A JERK
>
> QOLON NOTE:
> "Callodyn Bradlock" <xadin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c33c5677.04062...@posting.google.com...
> According to the first and second of the Ten Commandments, to worship
> any other being apart from God, who is absolutely and fundamentally
> ONE in nature, is idolatry.
>
> Those who worship Jesus are comitting an act of idolatry and are
> deserving of the death penalty.
We are no longer living under Moses. What part of this did you miss?
Oh, yes muslims are still living under Moses but Catholics/orthodox
are living under Paul.
For Moses, the MESSIAH is a prophet of God like Moses himself. Deut 18:15
But Paul taught us that Messiah who being in the likeness of God
did not seems to grasp... cf Letter to the philipians.
Your Christology is very poor because focused on Jesus and not Christ/Messiah.
Did you forget that Jesus is the Messiah? or do you also think that
Christ is Jesus last name?
Boy,That title Christ is not there for fun. I wish you knew that.
You are a JERK
Qolon
revisionistic thought often is--a subjective flight of fantasy, then perhaps
one would be able to differentiate your claim to Christianity as being
something other than autistic.
"Not-easily-duped" <Codeb...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:bbba7302.0407...@posting.google.com...
Not-easily-duped
> If you were capable of giving a reasoned response and which isn't as
> revisionistic thought often is--a subjective flight of fantasy, then perhaps
> one would be able to differentiate your claim to Christianity as being
> something other than autistic.
>
than the revelation entrusted to Paul, then maybe then we will take
you seriously. YOU ARE AT A LOSS
Not-easily-duped
>
> "And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon {that hears; that obeys},
> Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water
> for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the
> hairs of her head. THOU GAVEST ME NO KISS: BUT THIS WOMAN SINCE THE TIME I
> CAME IN HATH NOT CEASED TO KISS MY FEET. My head with oil thou didst not
> anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment. Wherefore I say
> unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but
> to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And he said unto her,
> Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say
> within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the
> woman-GUNE, Thy faith-PISTIS hath saved-SOZO thee; go-POREUOMAI in
> peace-EIRENE {prosperity: one, peace, quietness, rest, + set at one again}."
> [Luke 7:44-50]
Paul taught the mystery of Christ/Messiah as a revelation given to him
by God himself.
So according to his Christology Jesus is the Christ/Messiah promised
by God and Christ is the Unique God. WE ARE LIVING UNDER PAUL and following
his teaching on Christ, that is more important than your fantasy
Qolon
If you could just give us one reason why we should believe you rather
than the revelation entrusted to Paul, then maybe then we will take
you seriously. YOU ARE AT A LOSS
"Not-easily-duped" <Codeb...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:bbba7302.04071...@posting.google.com...
Paul taught the mystery of Christ/Messiah as a revelation given to him
by God himself. So according to his Christology Jesus is the
Christ/Messiah promised
by God and Christ is the Unique God. WE ARE LIVING UNDER PAUL and following
his teaching on Christ, that is more important than your fantasy
QOLON NOTE:
You said, "yes muslims are still living under Moses" "Not-easily-duped"
<Codeb...@bigsecret.com>
The Mosaic covenant was made with the genealogical ancestral lineage of
Isaac and Jacob. However some Muslims claim an alternate ancestral
dependency with Ishmael.
The New Testament issue may also be viewed more properly as being the
product and consequence of increased Hellenisation and religious/political
sub-ordination to Roman and pagan domination by virtue of the collusion {ie.
the leaven} initially between the Idumean King Herod who being ancestrally
Palestinian who had no participation within the Torah covenant of Mt Sinai,
the Great and the Sadducean (White Washers and Men of Mockery) and Phariees
(Flattery Seekers) who gave creedance to a lie {
ie. Man of Lie supposed asAntipater as a sycophantic Idumean political
adviser who's son was Herod the Great. / Hellenist Jew Philo of Alexandria
(20BCE-50CE) (viz Jesus central theological statement: Beware the leaven of
Herod, the Pharisees and Sadducees [Matthew 16:6-12; Mark 8:5; Luke 12:1])
"No one -- and I mean no one -- denied most of the major aspects of Judaism
for many centuries after the Sinaitic event. The first record we have of
formal schisms within Judaism is close to the period of the Mishna (such as
the Sadducees), roughly 1000 years later! (See our class on 1:3
<www.torah.org/learning/pirkei-avos/chapter1-3.html>.) Even then, the
doubters denied only the Oral Law - the explanation and elaboration of the
Scripture as handed down orally by Moses. For no one at that time could
have ever gotten away with the claim that the Written Torah was not
authentic. Such a claim would have been regarded as patently absurd; it
would have been laughed off the stage of history. We all *knew* there was a
Torah." [Courtesy: Š 2004 Rabbi Dovid Rosenfeld Pirkei Avos on Does God
Exist? Chapter 3 Mishna 10 (a), Project Genesis <http://www.torah.org> ]
} and tolerated King Herod's infidelity {he is presumed to have died of
Gonorrhea) and had 5-10 wives--the entire New Testament literature appears
overshadowed by its consequence culminating it King Agrippa II (c. 27-93
CE).
The point being that the Jews of the time due to the religious/political
collusion between the Idumean Herod, Pharisees and Sadducees could not even
bring themselves to mention the term 'Messiah' and that any consideration of
such was euphemistically dismissed as, "boasting himself to be somebody":
"Now when Jesus {He is saved/A savior; a deliverer} of Nazareth {one chosen
or set apart; separated; crowned; sanctified} was born in Bethlehem {house
of bread} of Judaea {the praise of the Lord; confession} in the days of
Herod {son of a hero} the king, behold, there came wise men from the east to
Jerusalem {vision of peace}, Saying, Where is he that is born King of the
Jews? for we have seen his star in the east, and are come to worship him.
When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all
Jerusalem with him. And when he had gathered all the chief priests and
scribes of the people together, he demanded of them where Christ should be
born." [Matthew 2:1-4]
You appear to be expressing a religious belief which is a delusion. "And
this is the blessing with which Moses, the prophet of the Lord, blessed the
children of Israel before he died. and he said, 'The Lord was revealed from
Sinai {a bush; enmity} to given the law to his people, the children of
Israel; he shone in his Glory on the Mount of Gabla {Seir-'hairy; goat;
demon; tempest'} to give the law to the sons of Esau {he that acts or
finishes}. And when they found written within it: 'YOU SHALL NOT BE
MURDERERS' they did not accept it. And he appeared in his Glory to give his
law on the Mount of Paran {beauty; glory; ornament} to the sons of Ishmael
{God that hears}. And when the sons of Ishmael found that it was written
within it: 'YOU SHALL NOT BE THIEVES', they did not accept it. He went back
and was revealed on the Mount of Sinai and with him were myriads of holy
angels. The children of Israel said, 'WE WILL DO AND OBEY ALL THAT THE
MEMRA OF THE LORD HAS SPOKEN.' And he stretched out his right hand from the
midst of the flames of fire and gave the law to his people.
Was it not manifest and known before him that neither the sons of Esau not
the sons of Ishmael were to accept the law? Yet, all this was to show that
he loved the people, the children of Israel; myriads of holy angels
descended; sine, although he brought numerous chastisements upon them, their
neither rested nor reposed from the instruction of the law, and where let
and came to the foot of his clouds, and set out, and encamped according to
his commandments.
The children of Israel said, 'Moses commanded us a law; he gave it as an
inheritance and a possession to the assmebly of the tribes of Jacob. And a
king shall arise from those of the house of Jacob; when he gathers the heads
of the people together, all the tribes of the children of Israel shall obey
him." [Š 1997 The Order of Saint Benedict, Aramaic Targum of Deuteronomy
33:1-5]
PREVIOUS QOLON NOTE;
If you were capable of giving a reasoned response and which isn't as
revisionistic thought often is--a subjective flight of fantasy, then perhaps
one would be able to differentiate your claim to Christianity as being
something other than autistic.
"Not-easily-duped" <Codeb...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
Serendyn
"Not-easily-duped" <Codeb...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:bbba7302.04071...@posting.google.com...
> Paul taught the mystery of Christ/Messiah as a revelation given to him
> by God himself.
> So according to his Christology Jesus is the Christ/Messiah promised
> by God and Christ is the Unique God. WE ARE LIVING UNDER PAUL and
following
> his teaching on Christ, that is more important than your fantasy
Yep, good old Paul. Put Christians back under the law.
Got a good round of bigotry going too.
And helped keep women under the thumb for two thousand years.
What a guy!
-dyn
Qolon
a) He was an apostle to gentiles as the uncircumcision, being that
Peter's apostleship was to the circumcision as Jews; [Galatians 2:7-9]
b) Whilst he himself was a Pharisee, and advocated the 10 commandments as
Natural, Regulative, Metempirical based Theology including the Sabbath, it
was not adversarial to Jewish ritual practice [Acts 13:38-44]
c) He never advocated that Gentiles observe such ritual [Acts 21:20-25]
d) Indeed he suggested that if the gentiles observed the principles a
part from the Law, they were a Law to themselves and would be measured by
such a subjective standard. [Romans 2:8-16; 11:13-25]
However, he recognised the advantage that Hebrew/Greek Jewish-Christians had
in their knowledge of God [Romans 3:1; Titus 1:3].
"Serendyn" <hol...@wuzzup.com> wrote in message
news:10feipk...@corp.supernews.com...
Serendyn
But I do apologize for my error...he didn't put them back under the law--he
introduced a whole new set of laws.
And Christians have labored under them ever since.
-dyn
"Qolon" <te...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:26JJc.3145$K53...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Qolon
laws did you have in mind--if not the mindset that ought to be adopted, to
enable Christianity to survive the pagan / hymeneal onslaught of Mithra as
Roman / Greek religion?
If you've made an error, you ought not perpetuate it the more...
- dolf
From: "Serendyn" <hol...@wuzzup.com>
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"Serendyn" <hol...@wuzzup.com> wrote in message
news:10feohc...@corp.supernews.com...
I'd hardly call the history of Christianity "myth."
But I do apologize for my error...he didn't put them back under the law--he
introduced a whole new set of laws.
And Christians have labored under them ever since.
-dyn
Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 05:57:17 CST
From: "Serendyn" <hol...@wuzzup.com>
Newsgroups: alt.religion.wicca.moderated
Subject: Re: Wiccan Doctrine Discussion (Was: Re: Protection Against
Voodoo?)
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"Tiliqua" <full...@ozemale.com.au> wrote in message
news:jbr0f01lgf8dc9iou...@4ax.com...
> Under close feline supervision,
> I reply to 'Thenie's thesis:
> in which it was mentioned that
>
> Major snippage
> >Religion/spirituality comes in when the issue of intent is addressed.
Wicca
> >does have suggested 'rules' for applying magick, based on the experience
of
> >generations going before. Not all wiccans follow those rules, not even
as
> >advice, and they later note how the advice was borne out by the
consequences
> >that followed.
>
> And more snippages
>
> As a supplementary to Thenie's paragraph above, I feel it's important
> to add that, in either case, independent of the effect of the casting,
> the caster accepts the responsibility for his/her actions.
>
> Not the intent, but the *action* which caused the consequences later
> observed.
>
> Is this possibly the one unifying belief of our belief system (be it
> whatever blend of Wicca, paganism, etc etc etc each of us professes)
> that I am responsible for my own actions and the results arising
> therefrom?
It very much Should be. Accept 'em or not, they are ours. We can stand
upon the notion of "intent" all we want, but there is no judge to grant us
immunity...we act, and the whole of existence reacts. On Every act, the
balance of the whole depends.
-dyn
QOLON NOTE:
Serendyn
> As pagan or Wiccan engaging in slander and religious vilification, which
> laws did you have in mind--if not the mindset that ought to be adopted, to
> enable Christianity to survive the pagan / hymeneal onslaught of Mithra as
> Roman / Greek religion?
Where would I even begin? For the sake of brevity, let's take Paul's views
of women...
1) Men are above women, as Christ is above men...1 Cor 11:3
2) Man was made in God's image, but woman was made in man's...1 Cor 11:7-9
3) Women remain silent in church...1 Cor 14:34-35
4) Wives submit to husbands...Eph 5:22-24
5) Women not allowed to teach...1 Tim 2:11-15
6) Women not to be elders, deacons or bishops...1 Tim 3:2,8 Titus 1:6
7) Inequality in marriage...Titus 2:4
For the past 1900 years or so the Christian church has taken these teachings
to heart and as a result, women have held a second-class status that remains
TO THIS DAY.
Any serious evaluation of the Christian scriptures can't help but reveal
that Paul's writings added nothing more to the teachings of Jesus but the
"rules" on how to live as a follower of Christ, complete with the
prejudices, bigotry, and inequality that pervaded Jewish thought at that
time. You may feel this was "necessary" to enable Christianity to survive,
but unfortunately it has been used over the years to justify behavior that
one cannot even consider walking in the steps of Jesus.
-dyn
Jack SlopehE@d
wrote:
someone has a stick up their ass.
Qolon
Religion of Rome who claiming deification engaged in both homogeneity,
gamogeneity etc}, he says, "I myself thought I must do many things contrary
to the name of Jesus of Nazareth. This I also did in Jerusalem, and many of
the saints I shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief
priests; and when they were put to death, I cast my vote against them. And I
punished them often in every synagogue and compelled them to blaspheme; and
being exceedingly enraged against them, I persecuted them even to foreign
cities." [Acts 26:9-11]
Independent historical references of 3rd century Jewish-Greek Gnosticism,
conveys the notion that carnal marriage [... is also like the marriage of
the soul as they become soul mates * words added by me] But once they unite
with one another, they become a single life. Wherefore the prophet [Genesis
2:24] concerning the first man and the first woman said, 'They will become
one flesh.' For they were originally joined to one another when they were
with the father before the woman led astray the man, who is her brother {ie.
Gk philadelphia as brotherly love or soul mate}. This marriage has brought
them back together again and the soul has been joined to her true love, her
real master, as it is written [cf: Genesis 3:16; 1 Corinthians 11:1;
Ephesians 5:3]" [Exegesis on the Soul, Nag Hammadi Library p 194-195]
Thus we actually see that the Hebrew Torah Scholar, Greek Philosopher and
Christian Apostle's regard of marriage reflects this 'co-joining as soul
mate' by oath (the problem being, people do not abide by their word) and
according to Jewish belief, the soul of the Messiah is conveyed as likewise
having a co-brother called Sandolphon (ie. the left side cherubim who
although being male is given an inclusive female attribute):--
"Nevertheless-DE, to avoid-DIA fornication-PORNEIA, let every-HEKASTOS {ie.
male, female, one} man have-ECHO his own-HEAUTOU wife-GUNE, and let
every-HEKASTOS woman have-ECHO her own-IDIOS husband-ANER. Let the
husband-ANER render-APODIDOMAI unto the wife-GUNE due-OPHEILO
benevolence-EUNOIA: and likewise-HOMOIOS the-KAI wife-GUNE unto the
husband-ANER. The wife-GUNE hath not power-EXOUSIAZO of her own-IDIOS
body-SOMA, but the husband-ANER: and likewise-HOMOIOS also-KAI the
husband-ANER hath not power-EXOUSIAZO of his own-IDIOS body-SOMA, but the
wife-GUNE. [1 Corinthians 7:2-4]
The same equitable power-EXOUSIA of his/her own-IDIOS body-SOMA is granted
to the individual {
"That no-me man go-huperbaino beyond-huperbaino {transcend} and
defraud-pleonekteo his brother-adelphos in any matter-pragma: because-dioti
that the Lord-Kurios is the avenger-ekdikos of all-pas such-touton, as we
also-kai have forewarned-proepo you and testified-diamarturomai. For
God-theos hath not called-kaleo us unto uncleanness-akatharsia (cf:
katharmoi (purification rites) of the Lower Mysteries and teletai
(perfection of labours) pertaining to the Greater Mysteries of Bacchus,
whereby the thiaseuesthai (Initiate) is brought into the religious
fraternity or organisation (thiasos); Arsenokoite/Arsenogenes [1Corinthians
6:9; 1 Timothy 1:10] = moral corruption concerning Everlasting Covenant
Defilement), but unto holiness-hagiasmos. He therefore-toigaroun that
despiseth-atheteo {to set aside, that is, (by implication) to disesteem,
neutralize or violate:-cast off, despise, disannul, frustrate, bring to
nought, reject}, despiseth-atheteo not man-anthropos, but God-theos, who
hath also-kai given-didomi unto us his holy-hagios Spirit-pneuma.
But as touching-peri brotherly-philadelphia love-philadelphia ye need-chreia
{employment, that is, an affair; also (by implication) occasion, demand,
requirement or destitution:-business, lack, necessary (-ity), need (-ful),
use, want; cf: Apostolic succession [Acts 6:1-7]} not that I write-grapho
unto you: for ye yourselves-autos are taught-theodidaktos of
God-theodidaktos to love-agapao one-allelon another-allelon."
[1Thessalonians 4:3-9 ]
} That is it is unequivocally equal rights as with virtue and integrity.
The term HOMOIOS meaning:
1: like, resembling;
2: the same;
3: equal in force, a match for one;
4: of things, suiting, according with;
5: all one to us;
6: homois antapodidonai give 'tit for tat';
7: hold a thing in like esteem;
8: on equal terms, in fair fight;
9: of the same rank or station; hence hoi homoioi , in aristocratic states,
peers, all citizens who had equal right to hold state-offices, esp. at
Sparta;
10: Geometry of figures, similar; of angles, similar, i.e. equal;
11: of Numbers, square, the product of two equal factors {ie. Plato's
'ADELPHOIS NOMOIS'};
12: of that in which a person or thing resembles another [cf: Henry George
Liddell. Robert Scott. A Greek-English Lexicon]
It also suggests that the usage of arsenokoite {ie. men who act against
principles of covenant} and therefore by imputation, the term malakos {ie.
As pretension to the kingdom of heaven in the greatest degree assigned to
the prophecy concerning the Angel Metatron as soul of the Messiah; cf:
malakia is equated with disease
It is said that [Exodus 23:20-22] refers to Metatron: "Behold, I send an
angel of mercy before you to guard you in the land, to bring you into the
place which I have prepared. Pay attention before him and listen to (his)
voice, and do not rebel against his words, for my holy name in invoked upon
him, for he will not forgive or pardon your sins, for my holy name is
invoked upon him. But if you listen to the voice of my Memra and do all
that it says, I will hate whoever hates you, and I will oppress whoever
oppresses you." [© 1994 The Order of Saint Benedict Aramaic Targum of
Neofiti 1: Exodus 23:20-22]
Whilst the designation was also applied to John {Grace or mercy of the Lord}
the Baptist, it is thought to apply to the son of man in the Last Days
[Matthew 25:31-46]: "And his father Zacharias {memory of the Lord} was
filled with the Holy Ghost, and prophesied, saying, Blessed be the Lord God
of Israel; for he hath visited and redeemed his people,
And hath raised up an horn of salvation for us in the house of his servant
David {well beloved; dear}; As he spake by the mouth of his holy prophets,
which have been since the world began: That we should be saved from our
enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us; To perform the mercy
promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant; The oath which
he sware to our father Abraham {father of a multitude}, That he would grant
unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve
him without fear, In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of
our life.
And thou, child, shalt be called the prophet of the Highest: for thou shalt
go before the face of the Lord to prepare his ways; To give knowledge of
salvation unto his people by the remission of their sins, Through the tender
mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us, To
give light to them that sit in darkness and in the shadow of death, to guide
our feet into the way of peace. And the child grew, and waxed strong in
spirit, and was in the deserts till the day of his showing unto
Israel."[Luke 1:67-80]
"What did you go out into the wilderness to look at? A reed-kalamos
shaken-saleuo by the wind-anemos? But what did you go out to see? A man
clothed in soft-MALAKOS {
NOTE: This Term is elsewhere translated as Homosexual rather than
eclessiastical authorities as Sadducees {White Washers and Men of Mockery}
and Phariees {Flattery Seekers} aligned with King Herod the Great (37-4 (1)
BCE) to King Agrippa II (c. 27-(50-93 CE) as sub-ordination with the Roman
Caesars from Tiberius to Vitellius as Roman State Religion. cf: [1
Corithians 6:9]
The New Testament Era Roman Caesars Tiberius (14-37 CE), and Gaius
(Caligula) (37-41 CE), Claudius (41-54 CE), Nero (54-68 CE) as claimed pagan
divinities within the Roman State Religion engaged in homogeneity in
addition to gamogeneity. [Romans 1:18-32] History records that Roman
Emperor Aulus Vitellius (69CE) son of Lucius born in 15CE spent his boyhood
and early youth at Capreae, among the wantons of Roman Emperor Tiberius
(14-37CE) in his retirement to the island resort, with his
Babylonian/Egyptian Astrologer. That it is the reason he got the reputation
in being branded for all time with the nickname Spintria (Heb. Qadesh as
Sodomite) and is suspected of having been the cause of his father's first
advancement at the expense of his own chastity.
He held a prominent place at court, enjoying the favor of 3 successive Roman
Emperors: winning the intimacy of Emperor Gaius (Caligula -- 30,000 people
lost their lives to celebrate his coming to power) 37-41CE, of Emperor
Claudius (41-54CE) and he was still dearer to Emperor Nero 54-68CE. Being
honored, not only with political positions but also with distinguished
priesthoods to Apollo and local planetary and agricultural divinities;
} garments-himation? Indeed those who are gorgeously apparelled and live in
luxury-truphe are in the kings' courts. But what did you go out to see? A
prophet? Yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet. This is he of whom it
is written: 'Behold, I send my messenger before your face, who will prepare
your way before you.' For I say to you, among those born of women there is
not a greater prophet than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the
kingdom of God is greater than he." [Luke 7:24-28]
} is representative as the Christian Gospel the 'rulers-kosmokrater of the
obscurity-skotos of this age-aion' who engage in 'spiritual-pneumatikos
wickedness-porneia', [Ephesians 6:12]} in that they commit spiritual
adultery--being the elevation of carnal marriage and procreation to being a
spiritual verity and equitable to a spiritual marriage as the individuals's
integrity of soul as participation within the Everlasting Covenant
experience. Namely, that they fraudulently lay claim to the Spirit of God
thereby "compel her to live with them and render service to them upon their
bed {ie. arsenokoite as men who act against principles of covenant as
arsenogenes equates with men who act against principles or mores of race},
as if they were her masters." [The Nag Hammadi Library, © 1988 E. J. Brill,
Leiden, The Netherlands, The Exegesis
of the Soul]
The curious thing about this is that the Soul of the Messiah, as the Holy
Spirit or Shekinah within Jewish Kabbalistic thought or Pistis-Sophia within
Jewish-Greek Gnosticism is assigned to the Angel Michael as a name derived
by Themurah from term Angel given in [Exodus 23:21; 23] as Mem (#40) + Lamed
(#30) + Aleph (#1) + Final Kaf (#500) = #571 % 81 [#4] {
[#4, #29, #2, #72 - Self-Love/ Holding Oneself Dear]
[#8, #4, #12, #2 - Contrast of Terms/ Self-Culture]
[#64, #1, #4, #24 - Important Distinctions/ Trouble from Indulgence]
[#72, #63, #75, #4 - Using Guidance/ Sourceless such as Gematria]
"Yet Michael, the Arch-Angel, in contending with the devil, when he disputed
about the body of Moses, dare not bring against him a reviling accusation,
but said, 'The Lord rebuke you!' But these speak evil of whatever they do
not know; and whatever they know naturally, like brute beasts, in these
things they corrupt themselves. Woe to them! For they have gone in the way
of Cain {possession; possessed}, have run greedily in the error of Balaam
{the ancient of the people; the destruction of the people} for profit, and
perished in the rebellion of Korah {baldness; ice; frost}." [New Testament
Jude 1:9-11]
} But has often been equated with the Holy Ghost, the Logos, God as Lord of
Host, Saboath and Metatron. And has given assent to being such by a Jewish
temple priest within the temple regarding John the Baptist [Luke 1:67-80]
and Jesus of Nazareth [Luke 7:24-28], has according to traditional
intepretations given of the original text, a male companion, who even though
is regarded as the 'left-handed feminine cherub of the ark of the covenant
which is the throne of God' is nevertheless called Sandolphon, Sandolfon
which also means in Greek 'Twin Brother'.
- dolf
"Serendyn" <hol...@wuzzup.com> wrote in message
news:10fevrb...@corp.supernews.com...
Qolon
The term HOMOIOS meaning:
- dolf
"Serendyn" <hol...@wuzzup.com> wrote in message
news:10fevrb...@corp.supernews.com...
-dyn
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
----
Qolon
square, the product of two equal factors {ie. Plato's
magic erroneously assigned to odd numbers a male attribution and to even
numbers a female attribution and gave them cojointly a spermatic quality.
And therefore by implication the articulation of religious belief thought
and conscience as values expression represented mathematically by a fourfold
vMeme/Moment Kabbalistic 9(9²+1)/2 = #369 Matrix {ie. HOMOIS being of
Numbers squared as 9² = 81 Numbers}, being the basis for a theological,
metaphysical philosophical and chronological retort--A 369 day chronological
and mathematical matrix known from antiquity as the Merkabah (ie.
Kabbalistic) mystical (transcendent and metaphysical) foundation for a
perennial solar/lunar [ie. 9(9²+1)/2 (#369) - 3(3²+1)/2 (#15) = 354 lunar
cycle] and organizational philosophy uniting reason and faith and mechanism
for governance as the regulative & natural philosophical principles
underpinning our Australian Constitution and legislative framework [#51,
#66, #77, #37 - Non-Deeming Action/ Adminstration of Government].
As such 'a priori' based teleological argument transcends and negates any
rational and un-substantiated claim to religious and corporate belief which
the Christian Church can Institutionally make.
- dolf
"Qolon" <te...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:SIMJc.3303$K53....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Qolon
(Caligula) coming to power, that in three months, more than a hundred and
sixty thousand (160,000 and not 30,000 as previously stated) victims are
said to have been slain in sacrifice to Roman State Religion. cf: Suetonius
The Apostle Paul was present at the stoning of Stephen in circa 33 CE as the
conclusion of the prophet Daniel's 70 weeks cryptic Messianic prophecy
[Daniel 9:24-27] {ie. 457 BCE + 70 weeks (490 years) = 33 CE ... [#3, #20,
#52, #73 - Employing Deeming/ Daring to Act]}
"And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down
their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul. And they stoned
Stephen {crowned}, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my
spirit. And he kneeled down, and cried with a loud voice, Lord, lay not this
sin to their charge. And when he had said this, he fell asleep." [Acts
7:58-7:60]
The eclessiastical persecutions by Saul as imprisonments and executions are
depicted as occuring immediately thereafter [Acts 8:1-3] until his
conversion {from 33- circa 36CE} on the road to Damascus {and subsequent
travel in Arabia circa 36-38 CE; escape from Damascus at the time Aretas was
appointed King over Damascus by Roman Emperor Gaius (Caligula) in 37 CE [2
Corinthians 11:32-33], first visit to Jerusalem, 38 CE} [Acts 9:1-14] and
not by other Jewish ecclesiastical authorities [Acts 9:23-25; 29-30].
But that there was period of peace at the time of great famine during the
rulership of Claudius Caesar (41-54 CE) [Acts 11:28] until King Herod
Agrippa I is depicted as having killed the Apostle James as the brother to
John in the year circa 41-44CE.
Thus there is no reason to dis-believe, that when Caligula refers to 'Jews'
as 'God Haters' during Philo of Alexandria's diplomatic embassy in 38 CE,
that the Jewish ecclesiastical authorities under Roman governance, had
already delivered many Jewish-Christians candidates up to 'imprisonment and
execution' as some of the 160,000 sacrificed in the rejoicing as celebration
of Roman Emperor Caligula (37-41 CE) of his ascension to power as the Age of
Saturn and who later claimed Divine Honors to himself as head of Roman State
Religion: "I myself thought I must do many things contrary to the name of
Jesus of Nazareth. This I also did in Jerusalem, and many of the saints I
shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and
when they were put to death, I cast my vote against them {ie. perhaps his
conversion occured in circa 37 CE and not circa 36 CE}. And I punished them
often in every synagogue and compelled them to blaspheme; and being
exceedingly enraged against them, I persecuted them even to foreign cities."
[Acts 26:9-11]
And that this practice continued, being the cause for Paul's later
persecution and appeal to Caesar [Acts 23:1-10] by which he travels to Rome
in a ship whose figurehead is the Twin Brothers, landing at Syracuse {that
draws violently}, circling around till reaching Rhegium {rupture; fracture},
coming to Puteoli {sulphureous wells} meeting the brethren and then
staying at Rome {strength; power} from circa 61-63 CE. [Acts 28:22]
In the 10th year, Roman Emperor Nero {a lamp; new-tilled land} (54-68 CE)
accuses Jewish-Christians of burning Rome and state sponsored persecutions
commence. At the time of the destruction Jerusalem in 70 AD by Titus
{pleasing} as the elder son to Emperor Vespasian who's plans were underway
(c. 70-76 CE) for the construction of the Colosseum, which was dedicated by
Titus in 80 CE as the year after Vespasian's death.
That we may say, "how great a sin we shall lay to charge against those who
persecute as christian claims to piety."
- dolf
"Qolon" <te...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:7RMJc.3314$K53....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
- dolf
The term HOMOIOS meaning:
Emperors: winning the intimacy of Emperor Gaius (Caligula -- 160,000 people
Not-easily-duped
We follow Paul. It is safer to live under Paul than under your
ignorance.
This is Moses' Christology:" Your God will send you the Messiah
a prophet like myself, him you shall listen." Deut 18:15
But here is Paul's Christology:" In Christ dwells God in bodily form."
And we have everything needed.
We are no longer living under Moses,fool.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----
Qolon
news:bbba7302.04071...@posting.google.com...
This is Moses' Christology:" Your God will send you the Messiah a prophet
like myself, him you shall listen." Deut 18:15 But here is Paul's
Christology:" In Christ dwells God in bodily form." And we have everything
needed. We are no longer living under Moses,fool.
QOLON NOTE:
Thus when it comes to matters of Godhead claimed by the Roman Emperors as
Divinity and which the Greek / Roman state religion as Papal Catholic
religious / political entity and her harlot daughters erroneously claims for
itself under the title of Christian {
'Nor can they prove the things of which they now accuse me, But this I
confess to you, that according to the Way-HODOS / Heb. DEREK (of
peace-SHALOM) [Romans 3:17] which they call a sect [Acts 28:22], so I
worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the
Law and the Prophets. I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept,
that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the
unjust' [Acts 24:13-15]
} may be here considered an autonomous {autos / one's true self, the soul +
nomos / Torah} 'a priori' as existing from the origins of the world {'an
apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect and the
acknowledgement of the truth which is according to godliness, in hope of
eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began... [Titus
1:1-3]}, or a form of natural, regulatory, metemphirical and chrongological
goverance of the time {'When Felix {happy, prosperous; the governor of
Caesarea} heard these things, having a more accurate knowledge of the
Way-HODOS / Heb. DEREK [Acts 24:22]} related to the conclusion of the
prophet Daniel's 70 weeks cryptic Messianic prophecy [Daniel 9:24-27] {ie.
457 BCE + 70 weeks (490 years) = 33 CE ... [#3, #20, #52, #73 - Employing
Deeming/ Daring to Act/ #69, #13]}:
"...because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for since the
creation of the world his invisible attributes are clearly seen, being
understood by the things that are made, even his eternal-AIDIOS
power-DUNAMIS {Male Personification of Miraculous Power}and Godhead-THEIOTES
{Divinity as the Sefirot of the Kabbalah}, so that they are without excuse,
because although they knew God, they did not glorify him as God, nor were
they thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their foolish hearts
were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and changed the
glory of the incorruptible God into an image like corruptible man--"The
likeness of male and female" [Deuteronomy 4:16]" [Romans 1:19-23]
I should point out that when we are speaking of HOMOIS being of Numbers,
square, the product of two equal factors {ie. Plato's 'ADELPHOIS NOMOIS'} we
are recognising that Greek and Roman mysticism as magic erroneously assigned
to odd numbers a male attribution and to even numbers a female attribution
and gave them cojointly a spermatic quality.
Other-heteros {ie. Secret of male & female}
The other, another, other
. to number
- to number as opposed to some former person or thing [eg. Jesus of Nazareth
as the Messiah] ie. Faith-pistis [Divine Name-onama v's Pythagorean
metempsychosis as the Tetractys/10]
- the other of two
. to quality
- another: i.e. one not of the same nature, form, class, kind, different
"This is Shem Hemaphorash. It is the beginning of all the names. The
beginning is the highest name and the lowest. Of the secret of male and
female, Berash Adam Vochoveh. Of the name of four letters, Yod He Vav Heh.
The great and honored name is the knowledge of our existence, the root of
the invocation. Change the beginning of all existence. Bind to deliver by
the tried and proven essence of truth. Of favourable existence, all was
created by the wisdom and desire, according to the decree of wisdom, the
desire to bless. Decree the name of the twelve signs, of twelve written
words combined.
IHOH, IHHO, IOHH, HOHI, HOIO, HHIO, OHIH, OHHI, OIHH, HIHO, HIOH, HHOI {4 x
3 x 2 x 1 = 24}" [© 2000 Steve Savedow, The Sepher Rezial: The Book of the
Angel Raziel, p 144]
Thus the Apostle Paul is presented at the stoning of Stephen in circa 33 CE
as immediately engaging [#70, #17, #3, #3 - Prescriptions for Politics/
Keeping the People Quiet /#70, #12] as the persecuting those concerning The
Way in circa 34 CE as those who regarded the 'Law and the Prophets': "And I
persecuted this way unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both
men and women. As also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the
estate of the elders: from whom also I received letters unto the brethren,
and went to Damascus, to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem,
for to be punished." [Acts 22:4-5
Thus we actually see that the Hebrew Torah Scholar, Greek Philosopher and
Christian Apostle's regard of marriage reflects this 'co-joining as soul
mate' by oath (the problem being, people do not abide by their word) and
according to Jewish belief, the soul of the Messiah is conveyed as likewise
having a co-brother called Sandolphon (ie. the left side cherubim who
although being male is given an inclusive female attribute):--
"Nevertheless-DE, to avoid-DIA fornication-PORNEIA, let every-HEKASTOS {ie.
male, female, one} man have-ECHO his own-HEAUTOU wife-GUNE, and let
every-HEKASTOS woman have-ECHO her own-IDIOS husband-ANER. Let the
husband-ANER render-APODIDOMAI unto the wife-GUNE due-OPHEILO
benevolence-EUNOIA: and likewise-HOMOIOS the-KAI wife-GUNE unto the
husband-ANER. The wife-GUNE hath not power-EXOUSIAZO of her own-IDIOS
body-SOMA, but the husband-ANER: and likewise-HOMOIOS also-KAI the
husband-ANER hath not power-EXOUSIAZO of his own-IDIOS body-SOMA, but the
wife-GUNE. [1 Corinthians 7:2-4]
The same equitable power-EXOUSIAZO of his/her own-IDIOS body-SOMA is granted
to the individual as being unequivocally equal rights pursued as the Way
with virtue and integrity.
The term HOMOIOS meaning:
1: like, resembling;
2: the same;
3: equal in force, a match for one;
4: of things, suiting, according with;
5: all one to us;
6: homois antapodidonai give 'tit for tat';
7: hold a thing in like esteem;
8: on equal terms, in fair fight;
9: of the same rank or station; hence hoi homoioi , in aristocratic states,
peers, all citizens who had equal right to hold state-offices, esp. at
Sparta;
10: Geometry of figures, similar; of angles, similar, i.e. equal;
11: of Numbers, square, the product of two equal factors {ie. Plato's
'ADELPHOIS NOMOIS'};
12: of that in which a person or thing resembles another [cf: Henry George
Liddell. Robert Scott. A Greek-English Lexicon]
And therefore by implication the articulation of religious belief thought
and conscience as values expression represented mathematically by a fourfold
vMeme/Moment Kabbalistic 9(9²+1)/2 = #369 Matrix {ie. HOMOIS being of
Numbers squared as 9² = 81 Numbers}, being the basis for a theological,
metaphysical philosophical and chronological retort--A 369 day chronological
and mathematical matrix known from antiquity as the Merkabah (ie.
Kabbalistic) mystical (transcendent and metaphysical) foundation for a
perennial solar/lunar [ie. 9(9²+1)/2 (#369) - 3(3²+1)/2 (#15) = 354 lunar
cycle] and organizational philosophy uniting reason and faith and mechanism
for governance as the regulative & natural philosophical principles
underpinning our Australian Constitution and legislative framework [#51,
#66, #77, #37 - Non-Deeming Action/ Adminstration of Government].
As such 'a priori' based teleological argument transcends and negates any
rational and un-substantiated claim to religious and corporate belief which
the Christian Church can Institutionally make.
- dolf
- <http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/kabbalah/patent.html#AXIOM4>
Barry OGrady
>"Qolon" <te...@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:<Ts0Jc.197$K53...@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
>> You are anonymously on 14 July, 2004 [#35, #75, #15 *, #56 - Abstruse
>> Virtuosity/ The Virtue of the Mysterious/ #27, #55 = Judah - the praise of
>> the Lord; confession] responding with a one liner of indeterminate value and
>> integrity to a post made on 26 June, 2004 [#73, #51, #31, #21 - Guiding and
>> the Physical/ Emptying the Heart/ #23, #59 = Terah - Station, delay, a
>> station of Israel in the wilderness/ To breathe; scent; blow].
>>
>> Why the delay in expressing praise to your Lord?
>>
>> - dolf
>>
>> "Not-easily-duped" <Codeb...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
>> news:bbba7302.04071...@posting.google.com...
>> You did not read Paul no wonder you don't get how Christ and the Law of
>> Moses
>> are related and that is jesus.YOU ARE A JERK
>>
>> QOLON NOTE:
>> "Callodyn Bradlock" <xadin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:c33c5677.04062...@posting.google.com...
>> According to the first and second of the Ten Commandments, to worship
>> any other being apart from God, who is absolutely and fundamentally
>> ONE in nature, is idolatry.
>>
>> Those who worship Jesus are comitting an act of idolatry and are
>> deserving of the death penalty.
>
>
>
> We are no longer living under Moses. What part of this did you miss?
Dolt explained it to you. Did you miss the part about
>#35, #75, #15 *, #56
and
>#27, #55 and #73, #51, #31, #21
and
>#23, #59
-Barry
========
Web page: http://members.iinet.net.au/~barry.og
Atheist, radio scanner, LIPD information.
Qolon
the traditional Great Chain of Being, body to mind to soul to spirit {ie.
viz the Ennead as #1 Seraphim, #2 Cherubim, #3 Thrones, #4 Dominions, #5
Virtues, #6 Powers, #7 Principalities; #8 Arch-Angels; #9 Angels}, had
traditionally derived as Angels from the anagrammation of [Exodus 14:19-21],
according to some of the oldest Jewish literature, The Book of Raziel {ie.
mysteries} which claims to be an oral tradition going back to the time of
Moses, it claims that by them, one is able to "Prophesy the lives of the
ancestors. Of Elohim, learn from. Thus far, reveal the miracles of Yahweh
{ie. God}. The name of the glory and honor is divided in 72 names coming
forth from the mouth of the high priest [Kehen Gedol]. In holiness and
purity, it was received therein in a vision. It comes forth from three
scriptures. Reveal the going forth from the tribute. Go forth to begin on
path, from beginning to end.
There are three letters in every name. These words are the most glorious
and hidden power. Of the powers of the highest measure, the letters are
glorious and exalted.
They are delivered from three scriptures {ie. [Exodus 14:19-21]}, of
glorious power in the sublime and hidden secret. By them, reveal the wisdom
and enlightenment of every sublime and hidden secred. The secret of heaven
and earth. The highest secret of the letters.
They are divided in three groups of 24 names. Reveal the glory of 10
divisions, seven in every division. They indicate every secret going forth
of the highest matters. The secret of the angel of Elohim. The secret to
cover with glory. The secret power of the water and the sea. The secret to
extend the hand of Moses over them. The secret of the host of Egypt and the
host of Israel. Of light and darkness, day and night. The secret of the
ancient spirit [Ruoch Qediem].
The highest and most glorious words indicate the power. Of the secret of
the ten sephiroth, reveal the sublime secret and glory. Reveal the
divisions of the profound secrets in places. Reveal the angel of Elohim, of
the most glorious and highest powers. Of Jochin {counsel} and Boaz
{stength} around the victory and splendor of ancient Israel." [ 2000 Steve
Savedow, The Sepher Rezial: The Book of the Angel Raziel, p 144-146]
Curiously the Angel Mitzrael (Mizreal) 40, 90, 200 = #330 from this Torah
text is assigned to:
Isopsephy: Ison(omia) - Equilibrium, equal distribution, balance, equality
of political rights [#3, #20, #52, #73 - Employing Deeming/ Daring to Act]
Latin: Gloria Alt: Menkel {Cease Strife Before God}] {
1. HELPS HEAL THE ILLS OF THE SPIRIT, RELEASES FROM PERSECUTORS
2. MEN OF VIRTUE
3. FAITHFULNESS, INDUCES OBEDIENCE IN SUBORDINATES
4. Homoth}
This has historically been understood by this ancient literature, The Book
of Raziel as relating to the image {Heb: KO INR) of (Heb: ADNI} with the
three signs of the name. Speak (Heb. YHWH ADNI) is the name of the host.
According to Biblical records, this was assigned to Jesus {He is saved/A
savior; a deliverer} of Nazareth {one chosen or set apart; separated;
crowned; sanctified} and within the Aten based Egyptian occultic practice
which pervaded the early 20th Century as HRUMACHIS - 'The Holy Spirit of
Truth and Justice'.
As the initials above his Cross being a Kabbalistic technique records his
Crime: INR = IESVS NAZARENVS REX IVDAEORVM.
Matthew 27:37 says that, on the Cross, over the head of Jesus, was a sign
that said "This is Jesus the King of the Jews." (KJAV) Mark 15:26 and John
19:19 say essentially the same thing. Luke 23:38 also mentions the sign on
the Cross, and he mentions that the sign was written relevant to the three
languages, Greek, Latin and Hebrew.
Thus it demonstrates you are wrong to suggest Paul's Christology differs
from that written by Moses: "I receive not honour from men. But I know you,
that ye have not the love of God in you. I am come in my Father's name, and
ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will
receive. How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek
not the honour that cometh from God only? Do not think that I will accuse
you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye
trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of
me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?"
[John 5:41-47]
- dolf
"Not-easily-duped" <Codeb...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:bbba7302.04071...@posting.google.com...
We follow Paul. It is safer to live under Paul than under your ignorance.
This is Moses' Christology:" Your God will send you the Messiah a prophet
like myself, him you shall listen." Deut 18:15 But here is Paul's
Christology:" In Christ dwells God in bodily form." And we have everything
needed. We are no longer living under Moses,fool.
QOLON NOTE:
Thus when it comes to matters of Godhead claimed by the Roman Emperors as
Divinity and which the Greek / Roman state religion as Papal Catholic
religious / political entity and her harlot daughters erroneously claims for
itself under the title of Christian {
'Nor can they prove the things of which they now accuse me, But this I
confess to you, that according to the Way-HODOS / Heb. DEREK (of
peace-SHALOM) [Romans 3:17] which they call a sect [Acts 28:22], so I
worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the
Law and the Prophets. I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept,
that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the
unjust' [Acts 24:13-15]
} may be here considered an autonomous {autos / one's true self, the soul +
nomos / Torah} 'a priori' as existing from the origins of the world {'an
apostle of Jesus Christ, according to the faith of God's elect and the
acknowledgement of the truth which is according to godliness, in hope of
eternal life which God, who cannot lie, promised before time began... [Titus
1:1-3]}, or a form of natural, regulatory, metemphirical and chronological
governance of the time {'When Felix {happy, prosperous; the governor of
Barry OGrady
>
>"Qolon" <te...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
>news:mHJJc.3160$K53....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>> As pagan or Wiccan engaging in slander and religious vilification, which
>> laws did you have in mind--if not the mindset that ought to be adopted, to
>> enable Christianity to survive the pagan / hymeneal onslaught of Mithra as
>> Roman / Greek religion?
>
>Where would I even begin? For the sake of brevity, let's take Paul's views
>of women...
You have been caught by the Dolf bot.
Do not expect a coherent reply.
>1) Men are above women, as Christ is above men...1 Cor 11:3
>2) Man was made in God's image, but woman was made in man's...1 Cor 11:7-9
>3) Women remain silent in church...1 Cor 14:34-35
>4) Wives submit to husbands...Eph 5:22-24
>5) Women not allowed to teach...1 Tim 2:11-15
>6) Women not to be elders, deacons or bishops...1 Tim 3:2,8 Titus 1:6
>7) Inequality in marriage...Titus 2:4
>
>For the past 1900 years or so the Christian church has taken these teachings
>to heart and as a result, women have held a second-class status that remains
>TO THIS DAY.
>
>Any serious evaluation of the Christian scriptures can't help but reveal
>that Paul's writings added nothing more to the teachings of Jesus but the
>"rules" on how to live as a follower of Christ, complete with the
>prejudices, bigotry, and inequality that pervaded Jewish thought at that
>time. You may feel this was "necessary" to enable Christianity to survive,
>but unfortunately it has been used over the years to justify behavior that
>one cannot even consider walking in the steps of Jesus.
>
>-dyn
>
Barry OGrady
> We follow Paul. It is safer to live under Paul than under your
> ignorance.
> This is Moses' Christology:" Your God will send you the Messiah
> a prophet like myself, him you shall listen." Deut 18:15
> But here is Paul's Christology:" In Christ dwells God in bodily form."
> And we have everything needed.
> We are no longer living under Moses,fool.
Cool. So Paul is more powerful than God.
Let's get Paul and God to wrestle under the WWF.
Tasos
Sat., July 17, 2004 Tamuz 28, 5764 Israel Time: 17:24 (GMT+3)
Al-Qaida statement threatens to stage attacks in Italy
By DPA
CAIRO - A statement attributed to Al-Qaida posted on an Islamist website Saturday threatened to stage attacks in Italy if Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi remained in power.
Signed in the name of the Abu Hafs al-Masri brigades, the statement said: "This is the final warning for the people of Italy. You either get rid of incompetent Berlusconi or we will truly burn Italy."
The Abu Haf al-Masri Brigades had claimed responsibility for the March 11 attacks in Madrid and the November 2003 bombings in Istanbul.
"This message is the farthest it could be from a mere threat. It is to warn you that a true catastrophe will happen and we are able to hit our targets with light weapons," the statement said.
Al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden gave European governments who have troops in Iraq a July 15 deadline to withdraw from Muslim countries. There are about 3,000 Italians operating in southern Iraq.
Not-easily-duped
> On 16 Jul 2004 10:53:14 -0700, Codeb...@bigsecret.com (Not-easily-duped) wrote:
>
> > We follow Paul. It is safer to live under Paul than under your
> > ignorance.
> > This is Moses' Christology:" Your God will send you the Messiah
> > a prophet like myself, him you shall listen." Deut 18:15
> > But here is Paul's Christology:" In Christ dwells God in bodily form."
> > And we have everything needed.
> > We are no longer living under Moses,fool.
>
> Cool. So Paul is more powerful than God.
Moses is not God. The fact is that Christology evolved to fit the
sophisticate mind of Paul's time.
Moses defined the basic element of Christ's nature and Paul polished it.
> Let's get Paul and God to wrestle under the WWF.
The only God who called Moses is the same God who mandated Paul.
There is no contradiction but complementarity.
Kevin Jones
from the header. :-)
Kevin
"Not-easily-duped" <Codeb...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:bbba7302.04071...@posting.google.com...
TheBlackKnight
Damned If You Do
Historians dare to criticize Islamic dhimmitude at Georgetown and pay a price.
ill Jews and Christians on American college campuses have the freedom — and more importantly, the courage — to speak out against oppression of their people in Islamic nations? Not, it seems, at Georgetown University, where Jewish student leaders turned on the leading historian of dhimmitude — the state of formal discrimination historically imposed on Jews and Christians living under Islamic occupation — when Muslim students became angry and emotional over her remarks.
Bat Yeor <http://www.dhimmitude.org/>, who occasionally contributes to National Review Online, made her reputation by documenting the tragic fate of the dhimmi Christians of the East, in lands conquered by Islam. Classical Islam prescribes a state of existence for subject Jews and Christians under which they must live as second-class citizens, paying a special tax to their Muslim rulers, living under special rules, and not granted the same basic human rights enjoyed by Muslims. Bat Yeor, born a Jew in Egypt but exiled to Europe, is the best-known historian of what she has termed dhimmitude, and has written three books on the subject.
A coalition of Jewish and Christian student groups at Georgetown invited the historian and her husband, historian David Littman, to deliver a lecture a week ago today on the stated topic of "Ideology of Jihad, Dhimmitude and Human Rights" — which was the title of the speech, according to flyers the event organizers produced. If statements the Littmans provided to National Review Online are accurate, it is hard to believe that their hosts were unaware of the nature of their work in the field.
"The various flyers in my possession that were prepared, posted, and widely circulated via e-mail by the organizers (I considered some of them somewhat provocative — and said so), confirm that all were fully aware of the subjects and themes to be addressed by both speakers," David Littman said.
Littman says the organizers agreed to provide special security for the event, indicating that they anticipated the possibility of trouble. Littman says he and his wife met with Ben Bixby, one of the Jewish student organizers, a week before the lecture, gave him copies of Bat Yeor's books, as well as copies of her recent articles. "Anyone glancing at these publications would know exactly the thrust of subjects and themes of the evening lectures," he tells NRO.
On the morning of the lectures, says Littman, he and Bat Yeor met Bixby and fellow students Julia Segall and Salamon Kalach-Zaga for breakfast. They spoke about the planned speeches. Littman says he decided to present a version of a talk he had given at the Congressional Human Rights Caucus, and provided a copy to the organizers. For her part, Bat Yeor says it is impossible for her to believe that she would have been invited to speak by students who were unfamiliar with her work.
Of her lecture, Bat Yeor says, "I explained the roots of jihad according to Muslim theologians and jurists, its aim, strategy, tactics and rules. This was followed by a short description of the jihad war of conquest on three continents over a millennium: from Portugal to India, from Budapest to Sudan, as those war operations, victories and conquests were described in Muslim and Christian chronicles. Dhimmitude is the direct consequence of jihad. It embodied all the Islamic laws and customs applied over a millennium on the vanquished population, Jews and Christians, living in the countries conquered by jihad and therefore Islamized.
"Then I spoke of the return of the jihad ideology since the 1960s, and of some dhimmitude practices in Muslim countries applying the sharia [Islamic] law, or inspired by it. I stressed the incompatibility between the concept of tolerance as expressed by the jihad-dhimmitude ideology, and the concept of human rights based on the equality of all human beings and the inalienability of their rights."
According to a letter written to the campus newspaper by Scott Borer-Miller <http://www.thehoya.com/printeditorials/102502/edit6.cfm>, a Jewish student who was present at the lecture, students "openly laughed and made comments" during Bat Yeor's half-hour lecture. In the question-and-answer period that followed, Bat Yeor reported "sometimes vehement" opposition from Muslim students in the audience. She describes it as "religiously motivated."
"They wouldn't accept a word of criticism on jihad and dhimmitude," she says. "I had approached and explained the subject as a matter of human history, like any other such subject. My vision was pluralistic, and based on countless testimonies, including Muslim ones. It was clear that the students who objected would not accept nor even tolerate the perception of jihad's victims."
Bat Yeor describes the Jewish students as looking "miserable and stunned." David Littman told me last week in New York that one of the Jewish students came to him and asked him not to deliver his lecture. He refused, and faced another outcry from Muslim students, particular when he mentioned disapprovingly that Muhammad's favorite wife, Aisha, was a small child when she was married off to the Prophet. Bat Yeor told me last week that several Jewish and Christian students approached her and her husband after the event and thanked them for their testimony. "I asked them, 'Why didn't you stand up for us when we were being attacked?'" she said. "They didn't have an answer."
Three days after the lecture, a story appeared in The Hoya <http://www.thehoya.com/printnews/102502/news8.cfm>, the campus newspaper, in which Kalach-Zaga, spokesman for the Georgetown Israel Alliance, alleged that Bat Yeor and her husband misled the organizers. "We wanted an event that talked about authoritarian regimes and how they twist and distort Islam to justify repression against minorities. The information that [Yeor and Littman] provided us with was about this topic, but their presentation wasn't concerned at all with this," the paper quoted Kalach-Zaga as saying.
"The speakers gave us certain ideas about what they would speak about so that they could get in the door, and once they were in, they gave a completely different idea of what we had wanted. It was two-faced and manipulative," he continued.
In a letter to The Hoya <http://www.thehoya.com/printeditorials/102502/edit3.cfm>, Jewish student leaders Julia Segall and Daniel Spector called the event "a disaster, and [we] denounce the views brought forth by Bat Yeor and David Littman." The pair called their guest speakers "hateful, slanderous and a crude surprise to us." They accused the speakers of making "no effort to make a clear distinction between pure, harmonious Islam, and the acts of a few who falsely claim to act in the name of Islam."
"This is pure nonsense," Bat Yeor replies. "When one studies the Inquisition or the Crusades, one does not feel obliged to make a clear distinction between 'pure' Christianity and those historical events. In a university, the examination of several analyses of history should be encouraged. The Muslim view is exclusively religion-based, and proceeds from the assumption that there is only one valid interpretation of history: the Islamic one. No criticism of jihad is accepted because it is a just war according to Muslim dogma.
"This attitude imposes the worst law of dhimmitude on non-Muslims: the refusal of their evidence. The historical testimony of the millions of human victims of jihad is rejected on its face by this doctrinal attitude."
It strains credibility to believe that the Jewish student organizers thought that Bat Yeor, whose work makes plain that jihad and dhimmitude are inextricably linked to Islamic doctrine and practice, would present them with a lecture saying the codified oppression of non-Muslim peoples is a peculiar distortion of Islam. None of several Jewish students involved with putting the event together responded to NRO's request for comment. David Littman says that unless the student organizers retract their accusations that he and his wife deceived the event's organizers, he will consult a lawyer about a libel suit.
Rabbi Harold White <http://www.georgetown.edu/spirit/campmin/home/white.html>, the Jewish chaplain at Georgetown, said he was visited by several of the "horrified" organizers the day after the presentation. "They didn't have problems with the facts [Bat Yeor and David Littman] were presenting," says Rabbi White. "They believed [the historians] were very rude. From what the students said to me, it was their mannerisms, and cutting off questions, that led to the apology. No [student] said to me that they doubted what she said was true. The just didn't like the presentation."
That contrasts starkly with the complaints the three students — Spector, Segall, and Kalach-Zaga — made for public consumption, in the pages of the campus newspaper, in which they mostly complained about the content of the Yeor-Littman speeches ("we in no way agree or support what was said"), and in Kalach-Zaga's case, accused the husband-wife team of being "two-faced and manipulative."
Rabbi White at first told NRO he suspected that the Jewish students had not read any of Bat Yeor's work prior to bringing her to campus, but corrected himself when he recalled that a Palestinian student group had requested of the Jewish student leaders that they cancel Bat Yeor's talk. "I know [the Jewish students] were provided with the material in advance, because in justifying the program to the leadership of the Arab group, they said they had read it and were convinced the program wouldn't be offensive."
When Muslim students in attendance reacted angrily to the speakers' presentations on jihad and dhimmitude, the Jewish students apparently changed their tune. "I don't think it was intimidation," says Rabbi White. "I think it was based on the fact that the week before, they had participated in a successful program on Jewish-Palestinian dialogue, and I think they must have figured it would endanger dialogue in the future."
As for Chi Alpha, the lone Christian group co-sponsoring the event, Shawn Galyen, the group's (non-student) chaplain, said he had never heard of Bat Yeor, but agreed to co-sponsor the lecture when Jewish organizers told him she would speak on the human rights situation of persecuted religious minorities in Islamic countries. Galyen said he was "disappointed" when her speech took up Islamic theology.
"I didn't think I heard a clear distinction when there could have been one between religion and people using religion for bad purposes," Galyen tells NRO. "If I would have known that was her work, I would have never been involved in it. It just isn't helpful, that kind of presentation."
But if what Bat Yeor and David Littman said about Islamic doctrine and history is true, I put it to Galyen, isn't it "helpful" — as opposed to a lie that keeps social peace? Galyen demurred, saying that his group isn't political, and that he only wishes that Bat Yeor had shown more "graciousness." The chaplain added that he wasn't sure that her voice belonged on a college campus, but when pressed, couldn't explain why.
All this, say Bat Yeor and Littman, shows how the Jews and Christians of Georgetown have embraced a dhimmi mentality, by abasing themselves before the sensibilities of Muslims, whose co-religionists persecute and oppress Jews and Christians abroad. Political correctness demands that Islam be thought of as inherently peaceful and tolerant, and no explorations of its history and doctrines that would lead to a contrary view may be presented.
Walid Phares <http://www.benadorassociates.com/phares.php>, a professor of Middle Eastern studies and ethnic-religious conflict at Florida Atlantic University, calls the Georgetown controversy "significant, but not unique."
"In the past two decades, any intellectual who advocates the fact that Middle Eastern Christians have suffered, or presented their research on this phenomenon, has been repressed," said Phares, who is a Maronite (Lebanese Catholic). "After 9/11, and continuing jihadist attacks on Christians around the world, it's very sad that students at a prominent university would try to suppress voices of academics, of researchers who are just trying to shed light on a very difficult issue. History is history, and in the same way Christians have criticized their own history, including the Crusades, it's time for the Muslim intellectuals to start criticizing the Islamic conquests and the jihad."
It's notable that this controversy erupted at Georgetown, says Phares, given the role its influential, Islamophilic Middle Eastern Studies department has played in what Phares calls "the erasing of the plight of Middle Eastern Christians under Islamic regimes."
Charles Jacobs, director of the Boston-based American Anti-Slavery Organization <http://www.iabolish.com/>, says Bat Yeor's historical argument must be heard because she is describing the basis for laws and ideology today in Saudi Arabia, Sudan, Iran, parts of Nigeria, and other Muslim nations, that determine how non-Muslims are governed.
"In most of the Middle East, the legacy of this religious inequality exists today," he says. "How can centuries of religious discrimination — cemented in daily practices through the requirement to wear distinctive garb, through the enforced custom of not looking at a Muslim in the eye, of not being able to defend yourself in court against a Muslim for any charge conceivable — how could this disappear overnight? This is what stokes the jihadi fires, and this is what Bat Yeor is calling attention to."
Could it be that Jews and Christians at Georgetown and other elite universities, who are among the small number of Americans in a position to do something to draw attention to the plight of the dhimmi peoples, may not want to hear about their suffering, past and present, because it upsets the social peace on campus? Because it gainsays the comforting multiculturalist nostrum that any unpleasant manifestation of Islam is not Islam at all? Because preserving good relations with Muslim groups requires not noticing dhimmitude — and, if it comes to it, possibly even dishonestly trashing the reputations of two scholars who do?
Any peace built on a lie is no peace at all, and a dialogue based on anything but the truth is self deception. It is to be hoped that the Georgetown debacle may result not in Bat Yeor's voice being silenced by dhimmitized Americans, but amplified by Americans who are tired of the silence on Islamic persecution of dhimmis. There is a nascent effort underway in certain Washington circles to establish an institute affiliated with Bat Yeor to promote scholarship on dhimmitude. This distressing incident at Georgetown underscores the need for such an institute, so Eastern Christians and Jews of dhimmi heritage can preserve and defend their history. "Ignorance is the enemy of reason," says FAU's Phares. "Maronites, Copts, Syriacs and others have been victims of jihad for centuries. After 9/11, the role of these communities in the West is extremely important. They can tell what has happened to them."
TheBlackKnight
A Definitive Reply to Islam
by Jerjis T. Alajaji
<http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/history2.aspx>
A casual reader of history will not fail to note the great and ferocious animosity of Islam to Christianity. One would ask why is this so, since both religions are supposed to worship the same God? The crux of the matter lies in focusing on the originators of these two religions, since followers of one or the other religion have a wide range of virtues or vices, resulting in complex and inscrutable historical developments.
Therefore let us concentrate on the two leaders, Jesus Christ and Muhammad. Let us look at their lives, what they both said and more importantly what they did. Which one of the two was forgiving, a peacemaker, kind, magnanimous? Which one would you trust more to be your friend? Which one was self-serving? Which one gave of himself and even his life for others? It is a relatively simple comparison, and the differences are obvious from their respective biographies. Which one of the two was interested in earthly power, a legalistic worldly empire, many wives and concubines? (in the Quran, Muhammad blesses the union of a man with four wives, except for himself, where he is blessed to have eight). Did Muhammad love his enemies or kill them?
We have many historically well documented witnesses who testify who Jesus is, who recorded His life, teachings, and deeds in the Gospels and Epistles, and who died martyrs' deaths for Him, without gaining any material benefits in return from a worldly point of view. There are also secular historians who are outsiders to the Christian tradition, such as the Jews Josephus and Philo, and the pagans Tacitus, Pliny, and Suetoneus, who have recorded corroborating facts about Jesus and his followers. In fact, during the first three centuries of the rise of Christianity, being a follower of Christ usually resulted in great hardship, persecution, and often martyrdom. All the apostles died as martyrs except St. John the Evangelist. A great many of the early Church leaders died as martyrs. Why would any of these intelligent and eloquent people, many highly educated, be ready to die for the cause of Christ if they were not convinced that He is True? On the other hand, we know that Islam from the outset was very militaristic and conquered by the sword, bestowing great earthly benefits on Muhammad himself and his entourage, granting power, wealth, and all the prestige that empire building reaps. His followers were ready to die for him, with a sword in hand, a very different situation than the early followers of Christ, who were peaceful subjects falsely accused and tortured by pagan Rome. Mohammad is the only source of the Quran. There is no other source of information to validate what he claims to be. He did not perform any miracles. His claim is that the beauty of the Quran is a sufficient miracle, but may I suggest that his cousin Ali's writings are sometimes equally or more eloquent? If Islam is true, why is it that Muslims are encouraged to kill other Muslims who leave Islam? Why is the Bible, a cross, or any Christian literature prohibited from entering Saudi Arabia? If Islam is true, it should welcome any fair challenge from other faiths, since the Truth always triumphs when compared to non-truths. Let us look at what Muhammad says in the Quran on his own terms. Since the Quran is allegedly verbatim the word of God, let us hereafter examine what God has to say about Jesus (called Issa in the Quran). We will demonstrate enormous inconsistencies in the Quran about who Jesus is.
[Maryam 19:20] She (Mary) said: How can I have a son when no mortal hath touched me, neither have I been unchaste? [Maryam 19:21] He said: So (it will be). Thy Lord saith: It is easy for Me. And (it will be) that We may make of him a revelation for mankind and a mercy from Us, and it is a thing ordained. [Maryam 19:22] And she conceived him (Jesus), and she withdrew with him to a far place.
Muhammad here acknowledges that Jesus' birth was miraculously done without human seed and was announced to the Virgin Mary by an angel. [Maryam 19:27] Then she brought him to her own folk, carrying him. They said: O Mary! Thou hast come with an amazing thing. [Maryam 19:28] O sister of Aaron! Thy father was not a wicked man nor was thy mother a harlot. [Maryam 19:29] Then she pointed to him. They said: How can we talk to one who is in the cradle, a young boy ? [Maryam 19:30] He (Jesus) spake: Lo! I am the slave of Allah. He hath given me the Scripture and hath appointed me a Prophet, [Maryam 19:31] And hath made me blessed wheresoever I may be, and hath enjoined upon me prayer and almsgiving so long as I remain alive, [Maryam 19:32] And (hath made me) dutiful toward her who bore me, and hath not made me arrogant, unblest. [Maryam 19:33] Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive! [Maryam 19:34] Such was Jesus, son of Mary: (this is) a statement of the truth concerning which they doubt. Here Muhammad records the first miracle of Jesus, who being still a baby, spoke as an adult to the kins of Mary who were accusing her of unchastity, since she had a child without being married to a man. Jesus defends her innocence and declares that he is the slave of Allah, who blessed him and appointed him to be a prophet. Then he prophesied about his own life saying : " Peace on me the day I was born, and the day I die, and the day I shall be raised alive!" Therefore, Jesus was to die and to be raised alive.
[an-Nisa' 4:157] And because of their saying: We slew the Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, Allah's messenger - they slew him not nor crucified him, but it appeared so unto them; and lo! those who disagree concerning it are in doubt thereof; they have no knowledge thereof save pursuit of a conjecture; they slew him not for certain. [an-Nisa' 4:158] But Allah took him up unto Himself. Allah was ever Mighty, Wise.
[Al-Imran 3:55] (And remember) when Allah said: O Jesus! Lo! I am gathering thee and causing thee to ascend unto Me, and am cleansing thee of those who disbelieve and am setting those who follow thee above those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection.
Muhammad here contradicts what he said previously by denying that Jesus was crucified, died, and was raised alive from the dead! He alleges that Jesus was rather taken up to heaven, "but it appeared so unto them" (the disciples) that Jesus was crucified. [al-Baqarah 2:87] And verily We gave unto Moses the Scripture and We caused a train of messengers to follow after him, and We gave unto Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs (of Allah's sovereignty), and We supported him with the Holy Spirit.
[al-Baqarah 2:253] Of those messengers, some of whom We have caused to excel others, and of whom there are some unto whom Allah spake, while some of them He exalted (above others) in degree; and We gave Jesus, son of Mary, clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty) and We supported him with the Holy Spirit.
[an-Nisa' 4:171] O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a Spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One God. Far is it removed from His Transcendent Majesty that He should have a Son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.
[al-Ma'idah 5:17] They indeed have disbelieved who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. [al-Ma'idah 5:72] They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the Messiah, son of Mary. The Messiah (himself) said: O Children of Israel, worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord. Lo! whoso ascribeth partners unto Allah, for him Allah hath forbidden paradise. His abode is the Fire.
[Maryam 19:35] It befitteth not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should take unto Himself a son. Glory be to Him! When He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is.
[at-Taubah 9:30] And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they! Muhammad here says that God bestowed on Jesus the Holy Spirit, exalted him above other prophets in degrees, and gave him clear proofs of Allah's sovereignty (i.e. miracles), but Muhammad denies the Holy Trinity and denies that Jesus is the Son of God. [al-Baqarah 2:53] And when We gave unto Moses the Scripture and the criterion (of right and wrong), that ye might be led aright.
[an-Nisa' 4:163] Lo! We inspire thee as We inspired Noah and the prophets after him, as We inspired Abraham and Ishmael and Isaac and Jacob and the tribes, and Jesus and Job and Jonah and Aaron and Solomon, and as We imparted unto David the Psalms;
[al-Ma'idah 5:46] And We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow in their footsteps, confirming that which was (revealed) before him in the Torah, and We bestowed on him the Gospel wherein is guidance and a light, confirming that which was (revealed) before it in the Torah - a guidance and an admonition unto those who ward off (evil).
[al-Hadid 57:27] Then We caused Our messengers to follow in their footsteps; and We caused Jesus, son of Mary, to follow, and gave him the Gospel, and placed compassion and mercy in the hearts of those who followed him. Muhammad says that he follows the line of revelation of all the previous prophets, including Moses, Job, Jonah, David, Solomon, and Jesus. However, Islam rejects the authority of the Hebrew and Christian Holy Scriptures. This gratuitous debunking of the Bible is based on the allegations that it has been corrupted from the original and deviated from the truth. This is the reason why God finally sent his last and ceal of all prophets, Muhammad, to bring humanity back to the straight path. Islam, in a self-serving manner, totally ignores any archeological or historical scholarship that proves that the Bible is authentic and unaltered. [Al-Imran 3:45] (And remember) when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, illustrious in the world and the hereafter, and one of those brought near (unto Allah). [Al-Imran 3:46] He will speak unto mankind in his cradle and in his manhood, and he is of the righteous. [Al-Imran 3:47] She said: My Lord! How can I have a child when no mortal hath touched me ? He said: So (it will be). Allah createth what He will. If He decreeth a thing, He saith unto it only: Be! and it is. [Al-Imran 3:48] And He will teach him the Scripture and wisdom, and the Torah and the Gospel, [Al-Imran 3:49] And will make him a messenger unto the Children of Israel, (saying): Lo! I come unto you with a sign from your Lord. Lo! I fashion for you out of clay the likeness of a bird, and I breathe into it and it is a bird, by Allah's leave. I heal him who was born blind, and the leper, and I raise the dead, by Allah's leave. And I announce unto you what ye eat and what ye store up in your houses. Lo! herein verily is a portent for you, if ye are to be believers.
[al-Ma'idah 5:110] When Allah saith: O Jesus, son of Mary! Remember My favour unto thee and unto thy mother; how I strengthened thee with the Holy Spirit, so that thou spakest unto mankind in the cradle as in maturity; and how I taught thee the Scripture and Wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel; and how thou didst shape of clay as it were the likeness of a bird by My permission, and didst blow upon it and it was a bird by My permission, and thou didst heal him who was born blind and the leper by My permission; and how thou didst raise the dead by My permission; and how I restrained the Children of Israel from (harming) thee when thou camest unto them with clear proofs, and those of them who disbelieved exclaimed: This is naught else than mere magic;
[al-Ma'idah 5:114] Jesus, son of Mary, said: O Allah, Lord of us! Send down for us a table spread with food from heaven, that it may be a feast for us, for the first of us and for the last of us, and a sign from Thee. Give us sustenance, for Thou art the Best of Sustainers. [al-Ma'idah 5:115] Allah said: Lo! I send it down for you. And whoso disbelieveth of you afterward, him surely will I punish with a punishment wherewith I have not punished any of (My) creatures.
[az-Zukhruf 43:63] When Jesus came with clear proofs (of Allah's Sovereignty), he said: I have come unto you with wisdom, and to make plain some of that concerning which ye differ. So keep your duty to Allah, and obey me. Here Muhammad describes the miraculous virgin birth of Jesus, how he spoke from his cradle as in maturity, fashioned a bird of clay and breathed on it to give it life (this is reminiscent of the Genesis account of the creation of Adam! Is not Jesus the Word of God by whom all things were made?), brought food down from heaven to feed the multitudes, healed the blind and the lepers, and raised the dead! Who can do these things other than God Incarnate? No other prophet before or after Jesus has done anything close to this. [Al-Imran 3:37] And her Lord accepted her (Mary) with full acceptance and vouchsafed to her a goodly growth; and made Zachariah her guardian. Whenever Zachariah went into the sanctuary where she was, he found that she had food. He said: O Mary! Whence cometh unto thee this (food) ? She answered: It is from Allah. Allah giveth without stint to whom He will.
[Al-Imran 3:42] And when the angels said: O Mary! Lo! Allah hath chosen thee and made thee pure, and hath preferred thee above (all) the women of creation.
[at-Tahrim 66:12] And Mary, daughter of 'Imran, whose body was chaste, therefore We breathed therein something of Our Spirit. And she put faith in the words of her Lord and His scriptures, and was of the obedient. Muhammad here believes that Mary, as a child, was sent angels from God to feed her in the temple's sanctuary, that she was pure and chaste, and that God has preferred her above all the women of creation and has given her of "Our Spirit" (meaning the Holy Spirit). Muhammad never claims anything remotely close to Mary's virtues for his mother. [as-Saff 61:6] And when Jesus son of Mary said: O Children of Israel! Lo! I am the messenger of Allah unto you, confirming that which was (revealed) before me in the Torah, and bringing good tidings of a messenger who cometh after me, whose name is the Praised One. Yet when he hath come unto them with clear proofs, they say: This is mere magic. The Holy Scriptures and Sacred Tradition of the Christian Church has never even remotely taught that Jesus predicted the coming of a prophet after Him. On the contrary, Jesus taught that false prophets and wolves will come after Him to tear apart the flock of His sheep. These contradictions, taken verbatim from the Quran, are very dramatic. They point to conflicting accounts about who Jesus is and what He did. The most overwhelming inconsistency is the affirmation that Jesus was to die and to be raised alive in one verse, and the denial that he ever was crucified in another remote verse, but was rather taken up to heaven. Could the word of God, which was dictated to Muhammad directly by the angel Gabriel, be in error? Would God make mistakes and change His mind? On the other hand, all four Gospels, written by four different witnesses, concur on the events of Jesus' life, death, and resurrection. Could it be that Muhammad started out earlier in his public life by accepting part of the Christian Gospel, when he himself had few followers, was persecuted, and fled to Medinah, but later reversed his opinions when he sensed an opportunity for establishing his own religion and kingdom, after his first successful battles at defeating his enemies and returning as victor to Mecca? Is it unthinkable or impossible for the All-Mighty God to enter His creation and become incarnate, the Maker of this vast universe? God can do all things and is absolutely sovereign, even according to Islam. Muhammad, as a mortal man like many others before and after him, was interested in all the usual enticements that appeal to ambitious leaders: power, fame, authority, women, wealth. On the other hand Jesus is unparalleled in all humanity on account of his birth, life, death, and resurrection, being disinterested in common pursuits, keeping His eyes on the eternal kingdom which He promised to establish and which He is capable of delivering, having shown clear proofs in His life on earth of His sovereignty over the elements of nature, sickness, life, and death. His life and deeds were prophesied with great accuracy centuries before His birth. Is it not plausible that He is the author and fulfillment of all these prophesies? As for me, I confess, after many careful years of learning from life and books, and after continuous and honest soul-searching, that Jesus of Nazareth is the Christ, the Son of the Living God, the Only-Begotten of the Father before all ages, eternally reigning and co-eternal with the Father and the Holy Spirit, the God-man, the Incarnate Word of God, uniting divine nature and human nature in one Person, the Logos, the Second Person of the All-Holy, Consubstantial, Tri-Personal, Triune, and Undivided Trinity. He took on human flesh and made it His own, without change, confusion, or separation of the divine and human natures, both operating simultaneously without diminution or alteration in the One Person, the Logos (this is the Orthodox Christian Faith of the Apostles, confirmed and defined at the fourth Ecumenical Council of Chalcedon, Asia Minor, 451 A.D).
As for Muhammad, he is a false prophet, whose coming was predicted by Christ. Jesus foretold in the Gospels the apparition of many false prophets after Him, one of the most successful of which turned out to be Muhammad. If you study carefully Muhammad's life, you will realize that he is of great religious, political, and military genius. He composed his own scriptures (the Quran) based on the Torah, the canonical Gospels, gnostic gospels (also called pseudepigrapha), and Arabian pagan customs. I, as a follower of Christ, do love Muslims, some of whom have great piety and love for God, surpassing the nominalism of many modern Christian peoples born under Islam are victims of their environment and have great difficulties breaking away from Islam because of many social pressures and the threat of being killed for the supposed crime of apostasy from Islam, even if they lose faith in their native inherited religion. The light they have received is a small fractional glimpse of the revealed full brightness of the True God, and their vision of God is shadowy and blurred. Their responsibility in front of God may not be as great as many Christians who are born in a free society and apostatize from Christ. Loving all Muslims, I, however, reject the teachings of Muhammad and Islam because they are misleading, discriminating, and often cruel, contradicting divine revelation in Christ, and mixing some of the revealed truths of Christianity (the fulfillment of Judaism) with falsehood and lies. Make no mistake about it: Islam is not compatible with Christianity and is not another path to God revealed by a late-coming prophet. What prophet does God need to send after He Himself came to show us the Royal Path to salvation in His Church, the Ark of salvation? The God depicted by Muhammad is very different than the God revealed in Christ, although the name of the deity and few of His attributes might be held in common. If one of these two religions is true, the other is false by simple deduction. Both can of course be considered false by non-believers, but both cannot be true. Orthodox Christianity teaches that God, the All-Merciful and Compassionate, will judge everyone according to what they have received and according to their deeds. Those who have received more will be accountable for more. Every human being is created and loved by God, and is given free will to chose good from evil, truth from falsehood, abundant Life from perdition, some according to the Truth revealed by the Son of God in Christianity, and others, who have not yet received Christ's illumination, according to the natural law inscribed in their heart and conscience by their Creator. The more one receives from God, the more one is accountable for on the Last Day. Ultimately, some non-Christians will be saved, and, on the other hand, some Christians will not be saved. God is All-Loving, Just, and Compassionate, and does not wish the death of a sinner, but patiently awaits his return. The height and breadth of His love was shown to us by the birth, death, and resurrection of His Only-Begotten Son.
[John 3:16] For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life. [John 8:57] Then said the Jews unto Him, Thou art not yet fifty years old, and hast thou seen Abraham? [John 8:58] Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am. [1Timothy 2:4] (God our Saviour) will have all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth. [1Timothy 3:15] ...the house of God, which is the Church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth. [1John 5:7] For there are Three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit: and these Three are One. Peace be unto all.
TheBlackKnight
Medieval Sourcebook:
A CHRISTIAN/MOSLEM DEBATE OF THE 12TH CENTURY
A CHRISTIAN/MOSLEM DEBATE OF THE 12TH CENTURY
TRANSLATED BY KARIM HAKKOUM AND FR. DALE A. JOHNSON 1989
taken, with permission from http://www.teleport.com/~hamarabi/posts.html, da...@colubs.com
This remarkable document is a part of a larger genre of Christian literature. Although dated 1165, the document which is in the hands of the family of the late Karim Hakkoum of Portland, Oregon, apparently was owned and perhaps copied by his father in 1914 in Aleppo, Syria.
We publish the first of three installments of this record of a
debate between a Christian Abbot George and Moslem clerics under
the protection of Saladin.
INTRODUCTION
In the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, one God, Amen. With the help of God, we begin writing a debate that happened between the monk Georgi and three Moslem theologians, in the presence of the prince Al-Khana, Al-Mushar Abul-Mulk, Gazi Al-Zaher Usef Ibn Ayub Al-Salah, the Moslem King of Aleppo and Syria, and during the reign of Leo the Armenian, son of Etienne, King of the Armenian tribe, in October 6615 from our Father Adam and 1165 A.D. God help us! The story says that the Abbot of the convent of "St. Simon the Fisherman" paid a visit to the King of Aleppo and its dependencies. The Abbot was accompanied by some of his monks. The King welcomed them, gave orders to secure all their demands, and allowed them to stay at his father's tent. Among the followers of the Abbot was an old monk who was very versed in knowledge. He spoke very well, too. Everybody liked to listen to him. he entered the convent in his childhood and profited of the books there; he acquired the virtues and the good manners of the monks. He was Abbot for many years until he became old. he was called "the monk Georgi" (George). When he met the Prince, he invoked God for him.
The Prince was pleased and asked him to have a seat.
When the Abbot had been convocated by the King to fulfill all
his requirements, the prince asked the monk (Georgi) to stay and
continued talking to him and inquired about the convent and the
mode of living of the monks. Let us relate (now) the questions
of the Prince:
DEBATE ON NATURE OF MONASTIC LIFE
The Prince-- O monk, don't you eat any meat?
The Monk-- No! We don't eat any at all.
The Prince-- Don't you get married?
The Monk-- No, Prince; on the contrary, we avoid women.
The Prince-- Why? Is this from God? But he created humankind as a man and a woman. He said also: "...have meat for eating." (You may eat the meat).
The Monk-- We do not forbid (eating) the meat. But we intend to have a light life, not material, in order to be nearer to God by lightening our body. The iron is purified from its impurities the closer it is to the fire. And as water becomes clearer, the water allows the sunlight to penetrate (it)--Don't you see that the rays let the light pierce through as far as they're thin and transparent? Don't you know that steam rising from the ground outshines the sunlight? The reason, O Prince, that is inside of us from God, becomes dark with luxurious life, and it keeps us away from God at the range of its darkness. And with our distance from God we attach ourselves to the corporal matters and to the love of the actual life. We avoid not only meat and women, but all corporal delights and everything that charms the five faculties. We expect, by using these privations, to obtain the graces of God in His eternal kingdom. He said,"you will not get the joy in the eternal world, if you don't endure the sorrows and difficulties in the perishable world."
The Prince-- O monk, you are just right. But, God granted us these and those.
The Monk-- Our God permitted to you to do as you like and gave you the liberty to enjoy the corporal felicities when He says: "I'll give you in the heaven a river of milk, a river of honey and beautiful women."
The Prince and the Monk were talking so, when three theologians came to the Prince and saluted him. He ordered them to sit down. And when they saw the monk, they spoke with the Prince in Turkish, saying,"where is this monk from? for what purpose is he in your presence?"
The Prince: This monk is from Simon's convent; he came to us with other monks to resolve some problems with the Sultan (King). How do you like his appearance? One of them called Abu-Zaher, from Baghdad said, "may I be made your ransom, O Prince, he has a smiling mouth and a handsome face. How regretful that he is Christian."
The Prince: Would you like to have a debate with
him in the matter of religion? They answered yes.
DEBATE ON THE SALVIFIC NATURE OF GOD
Then, they looked at each other. Thus, one of them, called
Abu-Salamah
Ibn Saad, from Mossul said,
Abu-Salamah (The Moslem) --"O monk, we revere and honor your Christ and make his rank over all prophets, except Mohammad, Prophet and Apostle of God. But you, Christians, decreased his esteem and you do not honor him, while God honored him and inspired him the Koran, as a light and mercy. You do not agree that he is the Prophet of God; so he shall confute you on the Resurrection.
The Monk-- Abu-Salamah, each question has an answer, But we did not come to your place to have a religious debate with you; But as petitioners. We do not need to talk to you, but with what it pleases you; because we know that the fury is yours and that you are boasting about that. A wise man said," Be cautious with them as long as you live in their house."
The Moslem-- Fear God, O Monk, because of what you mentioned. We are a people of law and justice; and nobody here is willing to discuss with you in a bad way.
Then, the Prince glanced at the Monk and said,-- "O Monk, I had been born from a Greek (Christian) woman. So, you can answer as you like, without fear. "Then he pulled out his own seal from his finger and put it on the finger of the monk.
The Monk-- Abu-Salamah, we do not want to give lies instead of truth. But we fear that you bring lies following the roughness of your nature. Don't you say that we do not revere Mohammed, nor confess that he is Apostle of God? Well, we will give you a clear proof from God (to ascertain our sayings).
The Moslem-- You could not succeed, at all, even if you try to do the impossible efforts.
The Monk-- The truth will appear. Abu-Salamah, don't you confess that God created all creatures?
The Moslem-- Yes, all which are in the heaven and in the earth; everything visible and invisible have been created by God, by His will.
The Monk-- Are there any people created by God and some people created by another God?
The Moslem-- No! The Creator created them and He is the One God I worship, and there is not another God.
The Monk-- Do you think that God willed the salvation of the whole world or He wants to save only a specified people among His creatures and destroy the rest? Don't you confess that God is rich, generous, and magnanimous? If you don't, then you attribute avarice to God; like a man who prepared food for a hundred persons, but when they came, he drove them out and said," Go away, I have no food for you!" By this way, he showed his avarice.
The Moslem-- I confess that God is rich, generous, magnanimous and the Creator of all creatures, and that He desires their salvation.
The Monk-- If God wants the salvation of the whole world, His messengers should be sent to the whole world, too. And anyone who pretends to be a Messenger of God needs a sign to corroborate his assertions; he needs also a power from God to confirm his message.
The Moslem-- What is the power and the sign?
The Monk-- Those that were with the Apostles of Christ.
The Moslem-- What is the power?
The Monk-- They are three: to make miracles, to speak various languages and avoid worldly things. While you have three opposite traits.
The Moslem-- Like what?
The Monk-- the menace with sword, tribute, and conviction. Those traits have been found in Mohammed. Evidence of God's Authority in the Apostles
Then, the Monk turned out to the Prince and said, " by God, O Prince if someone comes now to you and pretends to be a messenger of the King to you for so and so purposes, and you did not find in his possession a letter or a seal from the King , will you believe that he is the messenger of the King ?
The Prince-- By God, no! On the contrary, I'll consider him like a liar and traitor.
The Moslem-- What are the signs and the proof of the Apostles of Christ attesting their acquisition of the power to make miracles, to speak various languages and to preach in the whole world?
The Monk-- The sign is in your presence and the proof is evident: at any direction you look, east, west, south or north, you find the devotion to Christ at the farthest regions of the world. No one region is empty of it (this devotion). This is an evident proof that the Apostles of Christ traveled through the whole earth and spoke all languages. You cannot find a people, a language or a tongue without knowledge of Christ. The prophet David predicted that when he said," They went to whole earth and their speeches have grown in the regions of the world." This is also an evident proof that the Apostles spoke all languages. Do you have, Abu-Salamah, any doubt on those two things?
Abu-Salamah-- This is evident, without any doubt. Sermon on the Power and the Sign
The Monk-- I'll prove, now, that they made miracles, not by the force of their words, but by the power of their Sender, from the submission of the barbarian peoples to them. Their preachings were not dependent on their tolerance, neither menace, nor by the sword. They didn't take money. They were, in majority, illiterate fishermen and tent tailors. But the power received from Christ helped them to govern this world. When the Christ had sent them to preach in the world, He entered the room where they were gathered after His resurrection, while the doors were closed. He gave them peace, first because they were fearing the Jews. Then He blew on them and said," receive the Holy Spirit. This Spirit will be your voice. By this voice, you will raise the dead, heal the sick, and vanquish the Kings. If you remit the sins of people they will be pardoned; but if you retain them, they will be so. Give free of charge, as you received so." He told them also," Don't bear a staff, neither haversack not food; don't have two clothes, nor two shoes. Don't bear copper in your girdle." Now tell me, what's stronger of that sign? If you tell me that their orders were too soft, I'll answer you that those were not theirs, but of the Christ, their Master. Here they are, "To whom who slaps you on the right cheek, turn to him the left one"; and, "if someone wants your cloth, give him your coat also"; and, "if someone uses you for one mile, go two miles with him. Love your enemies. Bless those who persecute you. Do good to those who afflict you." Tell me, who could listen to these ordinances and accept them, if the miracles did not astonish the whole world? Then, they believed them (the Apostles) and trusted their preaching. Look, O Moslem, at the preachings of the Apostles, as they preached to the speakers, scientists and the Kings, saying, "believe in God. He has been born from a woman; he ate food and drank water; has been beaten and whipped; people mocked him and spit on His face; they slapped him and put on his head a crown of thorns; he has been crucified and buried; (but) he rose from the dead." No one believed them. But people mocked them; denied their sayings, beat and chased them away. The Apostles said, " People, if you deny our preachings, we shall prove the truth. In fact: bring to us the crippled, blind and leper people, along with crazy, dislocated and dead people." They said, " In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, stand up, you dead person." That person rose from the dead. As well as from other sicknesses, which were healed also. Then, people believed them and worshipped their God; for their acts testified for them. Some people closed their eyes and their ears, like the snake that closed her ears to avoid hearing the magician's voice. But those who worshipped Satan, through adultery, voluptuousnesses, viciousness, and avidity and the target of which was to satisfy the desires of their bodies: all of those became as a flume (of smoke) and their idolatric adoration is over. The heavens, the earth, God and his angels testify that the Apostles are the messengers of the Christ and that their religion is the right one. And your prophet, Mohammed also testified for them, saying in the Koran, " We inspired the Koran as a light and guidance and confirming what is in their hands (Christian) from the Bible and the Gospels." So, if your prophet and your Book confirmed the Gospel, you have to do so, otherwise you treat your prophet and your books as liars. Debate on the Integrity of the Gospels
The Moslem-- I trust the Gospel and all its contents. But you altered it to be as you wanted.
The Monk--Do not say something you can't prove, because, in the end, you will be ashamed, like that one who prefers to cover the sunlight. Tell me, Abu-Salamah, how many years had passed from the Christ until Mohammed?
The Moslem-- I don't know.
The Monk-- I give the answer: from the Christ to Mohammed, six hundred and some more years passed.
The Prince--You're right, Monk. That is what we found in the history.
The Monk-- Were the Christians, then, in the whole world?
The Moslem-- Yes, they were.
The Monk-- Like in the present time?
The Moslem--Yes and more (then they are now).
The Monk-- Could you count (the number of ) the Gospels which existed (in that time) on the earth (in the world) in various languages?
The Moslem-- We couldn't.
The Monk-- Let us suppose that some people in the West had altered their Gospels. So, how did they reach those who are at the end of the earth in the East? Same thing for those who are in the North towards the South. It's impossible. If that was possible you were, then, founding the apocryphal Gospels with a part of Christians. While if you pay for a trip over the whole world, you will find the Gospels in various languages analogous to those received from the Apostles of our Lord the Christ. No difference between any of them, even in one letter, except the particular traits of each language. I, hereby, give you an example which lets you believe me: If someone comes and shows a Koran different from that known to you now, and says, " this is the Koran inspired by the Prophet," while it is not, will you accept it?
The Prince-- No, on the contrary we shall kill him and burn his book.
The Monk-- How could you equalize the Master and the servant, the Creator and the created or God and the man? Debate on the Integrity of Mohammed
The Moslem-- Don't you know, Monk, that Mohammed governed the Arabs, and that he is God's Prophet and Messenger, because he guided Ishmail's descendants and passed them from the idolatry to the worship of the Living God, like what did Christ and his Apostles?
The Monk-- I know that Mohammed ruled the Arabs and passed them from the idolatry to the acquaintance of God, but not to the true acquaintance, because he intended to rule them in order to have them under his jurisdiction, much more than to give them information about the Creator. If you can be patient a little and calm yourself, I'll give you a testimony on behalf of me and all Christians concerning your prophet Mohammed, to let you know why we do not honor him, neither call him Prophet or Messenger.
The Moslem-- As the Prince allowed you to speak as you like and gave you security, and the permission to speak about Islam, you can say anything you want.
The Prince-- Abu-Salamah, the Monk spoke as it is suitable to the truth and as accepted by reason.
Abu-Salamah-- Give us what you gave about Mohammed.
The Monk-- You should know, Abu-Salamah, that Mohammed was from the tribe of Koreish, and descendant of Ishmail, son of Hagar the Egyptian, slave of Sarah, spouse of Abraham. He was an Arab nomad and camel driver. In his trips, he came to Jerusalem where he had been welcomed by a Christian Nestorian, called Buheira. When he asked Mohammed about his religion, he found him to be one of the pagans. Those were the sons of Ishmail. They worshipped an idol called AL-AKBAR (the greatest). They used to put around him poems containing desire and love written on tablets which they suspended over that idol. They served for prayers and had been called the seven "usudallakat" (suspended). When he (Buheira) knew that he (Mohammed) was from that tribe, he got sympathy for him, due to the similarity of languages, the friendship, and the desire of knowledge. Then he read to him some chapters from the Gospels, the Bible and the Psalms. When he returned home, he said to his friends, " Woe unto you! You are in flagrant error and your worship is null and unprofitable". They told him, " What is your problem, Mohammed?" He answered, " I found the true God." They asked, " What is his name?" He replied, " His name is ALLAH. He created the heaven and the earth and all creatures in it. He sent me to you as a light and a sign of his compassion." They said, " Could you show him to us to know where he is?" He said, " He resides in the heaven and sees all, but he is invisible." They told him, " We have a deity which we worship and honor. We inherited this worship from our ancestors who gave us the liberty to satisfy our desires with everything we own." Then Mohammed told them, " That one who sent me to you told me that he grants you what is better and greater than what you say." They asked, " What is it?" He said, " It is a paradise where he transfers you after your death. It contains food, drinks, and women." They asked, " What is the form of the food, drink, and women" He replied, " Rivers of honey, milk and wine, with beautiful women; there you will be not thirsty nor full of tears." they said, " Are you the Messenger of God?" He replied, " Yes." They said, " We fear our god AL-AKBAR." He said, " worship God and honor AL-AKBAR." Some of them said, " We believe in God, you said the truth," Then he passed through another group from koreish, Muhammed's tribe. He, later met another group. Those people allowed their members to marry their daughters and sisters. Those were their customs, before they knew God. Mohammed wrote to Buheira all what happened to him. Buheira prohibited those customs and with big efforts, he succeeded to draw them to the first cousins. When he got enough adherents from Arabs and their aristocracy, some remained reticent. Then he desired the monarchy (sovereignty) for himself and formed an armed detachment to fight his contradictors and said, " Those who enter the Islam, will be safe;" and said, " The inhabitants of the heaven and the earth entered the Islam by their will and (some) by force." Then, he attacked a group convinced another group with adorned words and arguments. His target was to rule them and rush them in order to reach the rest of women, because he was very avid of them. He desired them at a high degree. In confirmation of that, he was not satisfied with his numerous women, but desired Zeid's wife when he saw her and took her from him by force, pretending that God gave her to him as a wife, instead of Zeid. He spoke to his followers in this concern saying, " After Zeid had accomplished his desires from her, We (God) gave her to you as a wife, Mohammed." He pretended that God inspired him to do so. But his followers said, " Messenger of God, what God granted you is not permitted to anyone else."
The Moslem-- Woe unto you, uncircumcised! Zeid had asked him to take her and sworn that she will be unlawful for him.
The Monk-- He had to, otherwise he would have the same destiny as others.
The Moslem-- What happened to them?
The Monk-- Didn't you hear about the bedouin killed by your prophet, on his bed, while God forbids killing even the birds in their beds. When asked by his followers, " Who killed the slave?" "My sword," replied Mohammed.
The Moslem-- If you find some faults in the life of Mohammed to blame him for, you must confess that he had the biggest and most important honor and the greatest credit with God for what he did to Ishmail's descendants.
The Monk-- He guided you following his will, not as would like God. And Mohammed did not ignore that he and you are far from the truth and the right way, saying, " I don't know what happens to me and to you. Are we in the clarity or in the dark?" He said also, " Fear God as hard as you could, maybe you will succeed." And he assigned that in each prayer you request to be guided to the right way by saying, " Guide us (O God) to the right way." So, if you are right, then you don't need to ask for the righteousness. Bur he asks God for help. But let us forget what we said. Have an example about this. Suppose, O Prince, that I left your presence in search of without leaving the way guiding to the Fatherland . I'll not need guidance but the help to reach the Fatherland. .
The Prince-- Quite right,
The Monk-- If Mohammed knew that you were on the right way, he would not order you to request from God the guidance and the maturity. Besides, knowing that his prayer is not accepted by God, he ordered you to pray for him, and told you, " You, believers, pray for him and grant him salvation."
The Moslem-- Don't you know God and his angels pray for Mohammed? Don't we have to pray for him, too?
The Monk-- You should, preferably, pray for yourself and ask the pardon for yourself; not to be like that one who is hungry and asks food for others; or like that one who suffers from an injury and asks medicine for somebody else, So, if you, with God and his angels pray for Mohammed, who will accept your prayers? If this is your opinion, you equalize God and angels with the mankind.
The Moslem-- The prayer of God is a grace accorded to his worshippers.
The Monk-- Who has benefited from the grace of God and his angels doesn't need your prayers. You should better pray for yourself.
The Moslem-- Don't you pray, you Christians, on your Christ?
The Monk-- Absolutely not! On the contrary we pray to him, because he is our God and Creator and he accepts the prayer of his servants if they do, and forgives their faults.
The Moslem-- What an evident blasphemy and bad idea! You worship a created man, born from a woman, who suffered ignominy. That is what you confess, and you, Monk, do not deny that. You mock with insolence our Prophet Mohammed, the Chosen.
The Monk-- Upon my life, we do not bring anything from ourselves but from your Book and your Koran. Don't you confess that Mohammed was Bedouin and from Koreish?
The Moslem-- Yes.
The Monk-- Don't you know that he had many women, some against and some concubines. Don't you agree that he was so passionate towards women that he used the sword to kill those who did not obey him, and that he took Zeid's wife?
The Moslem-- Yes, that was God's order, for God inspired him to do so.
The Monk-- Don't you confess that he died and had been buried with thirty members with him under the soil? We mentioned only a few of the attributes of your Prophet, those which you admitted. So why do you contest it?
The Moslem-- Woe unto you! We contest what you make God a child, and that the Christ is God's son, and that he is Eternal God and Creator of the creatures while he is human and was born from a woman and God considers him like Adam to whom he said, " Be!" and he has been (created).
The Monk-- So, Abu-Salamah, you believe in all what your Prophet mentioned in your Book and that (this book) was inspired by God?
The Moslem-- Yes, everything mentioned in the Koran was inspired to Mohammed.
The Monk-- The Koran doesn't mention that the Christ is the Spirit of God and his Word given by God to Mary?
The Moslem-- Not eternal (word) but created.
The Monk-- Was God, at any time, dumb, deaf, or empty from any word or spirit?
The Moslem--God forbid! God, his Word and Spirit are always (present).
The Monk-- Is God's Word Creator or created?
The Moslem-- Creator.
The Monk-- You worship God along with his Spirit and Word, isn't it?
The Moslem-- I adore God, His Word and His Spirit.
The Monk-- Say now, then, " I believe in God, in His Spirit and in His Word."
The Moslem-- I believe in God and in His Spirit and in His Word. But I do not make them three, but one God.
The Monk-- This is my opinion, too; and my beliefs and those of all Christians of Orthodox faith. I like now to explain the meanings of the Holy Eternity: the Father is God; the Son is His Word; and the third (person is) the Holy Spirit.
The Prince was laying down. He then stood up, glanced to the Moslem, laughed and told him,-- " Abu-Salamah, the Monk Christianized you and introduced you to the Christian's religion; you are then Christian."
Abu-Salamah was furious. Then, a jurisprudent called Abul-Fadl Al-Halabi, told his friends: If you had permitted me from the beginning, I had a dialogue with the Monk and I showed you his defeat. Afterwards, he looked at the Prince and said, -- "Be informed, O Prince, that the non-believers are in the fire (in the hell) and whoever approaches them burns himself, and Satan who is the spirit of the tyranny speaks through their mouths."
The Monk-- Why do you insult us? Why do you attribute to us what is related to you and to your prophet? Didn't we talk and prove that the Christ is the Spirit of God and His Word from your Koran and your Prophet? If you are sure that what we cited is satanic, it should be from your Prophet and your Book.
The Prince-- Shame of you, Abul-Fadl! Your silence was better and more fruitful than your speech. I wish God had furnished you with silence and dumbness; then we would have been quite at ease.
Then Abdul-Fadl, ashamed, went away.
Note [Halsall]
I did contact Fr. Dale Johnson [email: da...@colubs.com] about this text, and he gave permission for it to be in the Medieval Sourcebook. What I am unable to do is verify the historicity of this document, beyond the notes by Fr. Johnson at the beginning.
This text is part of the Internet Medieval Source Book. The Sourcebook is a collection of public domain and copy-permitted texts related to medieval and Byzantine history.
Unless otherwise indicated the specific electronic form of the document is copyright. Permission is granted for electronic copying, distribution in print form for educational purposes and personal use. If you do reduplicate the document, indicate the source. No permission is granted for commercial use.
Paul Halsall November 1996
hal...@murray.fordham.edu
TheBlackKnight
TheBlac...@rogers.com
TheBlac...@rogers.com
Qolon
actually from your statements below you now claim to have Muslim empathies}
been shown to be a delusion and a lie--and the grounds for the systemic
abuse of equitable human, religious and constitutional rights as articulated
by the United Nations International Covenant of Civil and Political Rights
and sovergeinty of nations as articulated by their legislative and
regulative frameworks.
"Christianity is simply living by every word that proceedeth out of the
mouth of God. We are to believe in, and live in, Christ, who is the way, the
truth, and the life. We have faith in God when we believe His Word; we trust
and obey God when we keep His commandments; and we love God when we love His
law.
Believing a lie will not put any one of us in the way of being sanctified.
Should all the ministers in the world tell us that we were safe in
disobeying a single precept of the holy standard of righteousness, it would
not lessen our obligations nor make our guilt less, if we reject a plain
"Thou shalt" or "Thou shalt not." We need not think that because our fathers
did a certain way and died happy, we may follow in their footsteps and be
accepted in rendering the same service and doing the same works that they
did.
We have more light than they had in their day; and if we would be accepted
of God, we must be as faithful in obeying the light and walking in it as
they were in receiving and obeying the light that God sent to them. We must
accept and improve the light that shines upon our pathway as faithfully as
they accepted and improved the light that fell upon their pathway in their
generation. We shall be judged according to the light that shines into the
soul-temple in our day; and if
we follow the light, we shall be free men and women in Christ Jesus." [Ellen
G. White, Faith and Works 122.1-3]
"The worthy go forth to the hidden light. The most profound secrets are
revealed. The revelations are made clear, not obscured by darkness. There
is nothing in all the universe that compares. All actions and desires are
fulfilled by works revealed. Become proficient and results occur quickly.
Those who attempt to duplicate the works receive no results. The souls [
Nepheshoth ] of the disobedient and rebellious are punished by condemnation.
By desire, to establish the curse. The sea dries up. The Sun and Moon
darken. The light of the stars becomes faint. The mountains shift and fall,
and the Earth trembles. This is the result of arrogance. Those chosen are
strengthened by the power of the wisdom, established by understanding the
knowledge.
In the holy book are 72 signs, given by Michael, the great prince above
seven princes, ministering before the king, king of kings [Melech Melechi
Melechim]." [© 2000 Steve Savedow, The Sepher Rezial: The Book of the Angel
Raziel, pp 2]
The Book of Raziel is a treatise on the Torah deployment of a religious
nomenclature known as the traditional Great Chain of Being, body to mind to
soul to spirit {ie. viz the Ennead as #1 Seraphim, #2 Cherubim, #3
Thrones, #4 Dominions, #5 Virtues, #6 Powers, #7 Principalities; #8
Arch-Angels; #9 Angels}, which had traditionally derived as Angels from
the anagrammation of [Exodus 14:19-21]. And it claims that by them, one is
The Book of Raziel which purports to be an oral and Kabbalistic tradition
concerning the mysteries which goes back to the time of Moses {ie. actually
to Adam, Noah and Abraham} claims the purpose of the anagrammation of
[Exodus 14:19-21] as the nomenclature of Angels {ie. the water of separation
between Judaism and others} being an articulation of the Natural, Regulative
and Metempirical Philosophical origin of language, it's relationship to the
theory of number and considerations as an overlay over a heuristic {a method
of solving problems; one for which no algorithm heretofore exists and
therefore depends on inductive (ie. some reaction within the organism)
reasoning from past experience of similar problems} which exists and is
attributed to a chronological based hermeneutic as 'a priori'.
And therefore by implication the articulation of religious belief, thought
and conscience as values expression inclusive of one's self {ie. own-IDIOS
body-SOMA} which is compliant to those principles of religious liberty
espoused by the United Nations International Covenant of Civil and Political
Rights (ICCPR), but represented mathematically by a fourfold vMeme/Moment
Kabbalistic 9(9² +1)/2 = #369 Matrix {ie. HOMOIS being of Numbers squared as
92 = 81 Numbers}, being the basis for a theological, metaphysical
philosophical and chronological retort--A 369 day chronological and
mathematical matrix known from antiquity as the Merkabah (ie. Kabbalistic)
mystical (transcendent and metaphysical) foundation for a perennial
solar/lunar [ie. 9(9² +1)/2 (#369) - 3(3 +1)/2 (#15) = 354 lunar cycle] and
organizational philosophy uniting reason and faith and mechanism for
governance as the regulative & natural philosophical principles underpinning
our Australian Constitution and legislative framework [#51, #66, #77, #37 -
Non-Deeming Action/ Administration of Government /#9, #72].
The consideration that such religious belief, thought and conscience as
autonomous {autos / one's true self, the soul + nomos / Torah} values
expression consistently understood by Seventh-day Adventists as a Christian
community of faith, is established upon the transcendent and chronological
principle of Nature known as the 7th day Sabbath of the Decalogue, are
somehow antagonistic to the natural, regulative and metempirical principles
of good governance as certain powers, functions, and authorities declared to
be vested within the office of Governor General and Commander in chief over
Our said Commonwealth of Australia, may be considered absurd. Historically
within Australia, there was not opposition to the inclusion of a specific
religious clause as expression of liberty that was adopted as Section 116 of
the Australian Constitution of 1901 as the foundational document conveying
the Principles of Natural and Regulative Philosophy articulated by the
Letters Patent to said Australian Constitution of 1901:
"Both the Catholic Cardinal Moran and the Anglican Archbishop, Saumarez
Smith, were in favor of Section 116 of the Constitution, which prevented
Sabbatarian {ie. Saturday} legislation, and ensured that the
governor-general could not proclaim days of humiliation and thanksgiving."
[Ian Breward © 2001, A History of the Churches in Australia, Oxford
University Press, ISBN 0-19-826356-2, p 220]
Nevertheless, such an 'a priori' based teleological argument transcends and
negates any rational and un-substantiated claim to religious and corporate
belief, which the Christian Church can institutionally make, having
traditionally obtained its rules of Biblical interpretation from a magic
theology derived from symbolic taxonomical associations as a system of
natural, regulative and encyclical governance which evolved as the result of
the impress of Egyptian, Chaldean and Zoroastrian theological
intellectualization and its relationship to a geo-metric and partial
cosmology comprised of the seven visible planetary as astrological rather
than chronological associations.
Curiously the Angel Mitzrael (Mizreal) 40, 90, 200 = #330 from the Torah
text of [Exodus 14:19-21] is assigned to, and has historically been
understood by this ancient literature, The Book of Raziel as relating to the
image {Heb: KO INR) of (Heb: ADNI} with the three signs of the name. Speak
(Heb. YHWH ADNI) is the name of the host. According to Biblical records,
this was assigned to Jesus {He is saved/A savior; a deliverer} of Nazareth
{one chosen or set apart; separated; crowned; sanctified} and within the
Aten based Egyptian occultic practice which pervaded the early 20th Century
as HRUMACHIS - 'The Holy Spirit of Truth and Justice'.
As the initials above the Cross deploying notarikon {ie. the abbreviated
composition of a word from the beginning or end of several words} as a
Kabbalistic technique records his Crime as INR = IESVS NAZARENVS REX
IVDAEORVM.{Jesus Nazareth King of the Jews} [Matthew 27:37; Mark 15:26; John
19:19; Luke 23:38]
I have thereby demonstrated you are wrong to suggest Paul's Christology
differs from that written by Moses: "I receive not honour from men. But I
know you, that ye have not the love of God in you. I am come in my Father's
name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye
will receive. How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and
seek not the honour that cometh from God only? Do not think that I will
accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in
whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he
wrote of me. But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my
words?" [John 5:41-47]
Thus this statement by you is false: "You assume that Christ can not be God
and man at the same time, you are wrong. Paul knew that it was a blasphem
for a jew to refer to any human being as God, yet he went on and called
Christ the eternal God. Either he was purposedly blaspheming or he came to
the knowledge of that truth through revelation. By the way,the author of the
Qur'an already settled this matter. He labored with courage to redifine the
nature of Christ within the limit of Moses Law."
We have previously shown this statement by you is also false, "yes muslims
are still living under Moses" "Not-easily-duped" <Codeb...@bigsecret.com>
As I said, the Mosaic covenant was made with the genealogical ancestral
lineage of Isaac and Jacob. However some Muslims claim an alternate
ancestral dependency with Ishmael.
The New Testament issue may also be viewed more properly as being the
product and consequence of increased Hellenisation and religious/political
sub-ordination to Roman and pagan domination by virtue of the collusion {ie.
the leaven} initially between the Idumean King Herod who being ancestrally
Palestinian, had no participation within the Torah covenant of Mt Sinai, the
Great and the Sadducean (White Washers and Men of Mockery) and Phariees
(Flattery Seekers) who gave creedance to a lie--And this appears to be
interconnected to the Theological notion of Angel Metatron to which the
anagrammation of [Exodus 14:19-21] is also associated: "Of the palace of
Metatron, the name comes from the Nepheshoth, the most righteous of the
universe. Of the profound secret, Metatron is all the actions and power of
Shaddai, of all the one power. [Raziel p 196]
Within Jewish mysticism, Metatron is the demiurge who was important only
because his name is mathematically equivalent of Shaddai, one of God's name.
Sandolfon {co-brother} is being 'taller than his comrades by a distance of
500 years' has a significance as the left-handed cherubim of the ark of the
covenant, in having an intimate attendance upon God himself.
The usage of the greek term arsenokoite {ie. men who act against principles
of covenant} and therefore by imputation, the term malakos {ie. as
pretension to the kingdom of heaven in the greatest degree} are therefore
assigned to the prophecy concerning the Angel Metatron as soul of the
Messiah, as the Holy Spirit or Shekinah, Lord of Sabaoth within Jewish
Kabbalistic thought or Pistis-Sophia within Jewish-Greek Gnosticism. Being
further assigned to the Angel Michael as a name derived by Themurah from
term Angel given in [Exodus 23:21; 23] as Mem (#40) + Lamed (#30) + Aleph
(#1) + Final Kaf (#500) = #571 % 81 [#4] {
[#4, #29, #2, #72 - Self-Love/ Holding Oneself Dear]
[#8, #4, #12, #2 - Contrast of Terms/ Self-Culture]
[#64, #1, #4, #24 - Important Distinctions/ Trouble from Indulgence]
[#72, #63, #75, #4 - Using Guidance/ Sourceless such as Gematria]
It is said that [Exodus 23:20-22] refers to Metatron: "Behold, I send an
angel of mercy before you to guard you in the land, to bring you into the
place which I have prepared. Pay attention before him and listen to (his)
voice, and do not rebel against his words, for my holy name in invoked upon
him, for he will not forgive or pardon your sins, for my holy name is
invoked upon him. But if you listen to the voice of my Memra and do all
that it says, I will hate whoever hates you, and I will oppress whoever
oppresses you." [© 1994 The Order of Saint Benedict Aramaic Targum of
Neofiti 1: Exodus 23:20-22]
"What did you go out into the wilderness to look at? A reed-kalamos
shaken-saleuo by the wind-anemos? But what did you go out to see? A man
clothed in soft-MALAKOS {
NOTE: This Term is elsewhere erroneously translated as Homosexual rather
than the eclessiastical authorities as Sadducees {White Washers and Men of
Mockery} and Phariees {Flattery Seekers} aligned with King Herod the Great
(37-4 (1) BCE) to King Agrippa II (c. 27-(50-93 CE) as sub-ordination with
the Roman Caesars from Tiberius to Vitellius as Roman State Religion. cf: [1
Corithians 6:9]
"No one -- and I mean no one -- denied most of the major aspects of Judaism
for many centuries after the Sinaitic event. The first record we have of
formal schisms within Judaism is close to the period of the Mishna (such as
the Sadducees), roughly 1000 years later! (See our class on 1:3
<www.torah.org/learning/pirkei-avos/chapter1-3.html>.) Even then, the
doubters denied only the Oral Law - the explanation and elaboration of the
Scripture as handed down orally by Moses. For no one at that time could
have ever gotten away with the claim that the Written Torah was not
authentic. Such a claim would have been regarded as patently absurd; it
would have been laughed off the stage of history. We all *knew* there was a
Torah." [Courtesy: © 2004 Rabbi Dovid Rosenfeld Pirkei Avos on Does God
Exist? Chapter 3 Mishna 10 (a), Project Genesis <http://www.torah.org> ]
} garments-himation? Indeed those who are gorgeously apparelled and live in
luxury-truphe are in the kings' courts. But what did you go out to see? A
prophet? Yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet. This is he of whom it
is written: 'Behold, I send my messenger before your face, who will prepare
your way before you.' For I say to you, among those born of women there is
not a greater prophet than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the
kingdom of God is greater than he." [Luke 7:24-28]
It is representative as the Christian Gospel the 'rulers-kosmokrater of the
obscurity-skotos of this age-aion' who engage in 'spiritual-pneumatikos
wickedness-porneia', [Ephesians 6:12]} in that they commit spiritual
adultery--being the elevation of carnal marriage and procreation to being a
spiritual verity and equitable to a spiritual marriage as the individuals's
integrity of soul as participation within the Everlasting Covenant
experience. Namely, that they fraudulently lay claim to the Spirit of God
thereby "compel her to live with them and render service to them upon their
bed {ie. arsenokoite as men who act against principles of covenant as
arsenogenes equates with men who act against principles or mores of race},
as if they were her masters." [The Nag Hammadi Library, © 1988 E. J. Brill,
Leiden, The Netherlands, The Exegesis of the Soul]
The New Testament Era Roman Caesars Tiberius (14-37 CE), and Gaius
(Caligula) (37-41 CE), Claudius (41-54 CE), Nero (54-68 CE) as claimed pagan
divinities within the Roman State Religion engaged in homogeneity in
addition to gamogeneity. [Romans 1:18-32] History records that Roman
Emperor Aulus Vitellius (69CE) son of Lucius born in 15CE spent his boyhood
and early youth at Capreae, among the wantons of Roman Emperor Tiberius
(14-37CE) in his retirement to the island resort, with his
Babylonian/Egyptian Astrologer. That it is the reason he got the reputation
in being branded for all time with the nickname Spintria (Heb. Qadesh as
Sodomite) and is suspected of having been the cause of his father's first
advancement at the expense of his own chastity.
He held a prominent place at court, enjoying the favor of 3 successive Roman
Emperors: winning the intimacy of Emperor Gaius (Caligula -- 160,000 people
lost their lives to celebrate his coming to power) 37-41CE, of Emperor
Claudius (41-54CE) and he was still dearer to Emperor Nero 54-68CE. Being
honored, not only with political positions but also with distinguished
priesthoods to Apollo and local planetary and agricultural divinities;
Thus there is no reason to dis-believe, that when Caligula refers to 'Jews'
as 'God Haters' during Philo of Alexandria's diplomatic embassy in 38 CE,
that the Jewish ecclesiastical authorities under Roman governance, had
already delivered many Jewish-Christians candidates up to 'imprisonment and
execution' as some of the 160,000 sacrificed in the rejoicing as celebration
of Roman Emperor Caligula (37-41 CE) of his ascension to power as the Age of
Saturn and who later claimed Divine Honors to himself as head of Roman State
Religion: "I myself thought I must do many things contrary to the name of
Jesus of Nazareth. This I also did in Jerusalem, and many of the saints I
shut up in prison, having received authority from the chief priests; and
when they were put to death, I cast my vote against them {ie. perhaps his
conversion occured in circa 37 CE and not circa 36 CE}. And I punished them
often in every synagogue and compelled them to blaspheme; and being
exceedingly enraged against them, I persecuted them even to foreign cities."
[Acts 26:9-11]
The Apostle Paul is presented at the stoning of Stephen in circa 33 CE as
the conclusion of the prophet Daniel's 70 weeks cryptic Messianic prophecy
[Daniel 9:24-27] {ie. 457 BCE + 70 weeks (490 years) = 33 CE ... [#3, #20,
#52, #73 - Employing Deeming/ Daring to Act] and as immediately engaging
[#70, #17, #3, #3 - Prescriptions for Politics/ Keeping the People Quiet
/#70, #12] as the persecuting of those concerning 'The Way' in circa 34 CE
as those who regarded the 'Law and the Prophets': "And I persecuted this way
unto the death, binding and delivering into prisons both men and women. As
also the high priest doth bear me witness, and all the estate of the elders:
from whom also I received letters unto the brethren, and went to Damascus,
to bring them which were there bound unto Jerusalem, for to be punished."
[Acts 22:4-5]
- dolf
"Not-easily-duped" <Codeb...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:bbba7302.04071...@posting.google.com...
Who has time for this crap??????
I do not. You assume that Christ can not be God and man at the same time,
you are wrong.
Paul knew that it was a blasphem for a jew to refer to any human being as
God, yet he went on and called Christ the eternal God.
Either he was purposedly
blaspheming or he came to the knowledge of that truth
through revelation.
By the way,the author of the Qur'an already settled this matter. He
labored
with courage to redifine the nature of Christ within the limit of
Moses Law. So the issue you raised was already settled but you missed it
through your own ignorance. BLAME IT ON YOURSELF,PRICK
"Not-easily-duped" <Codeb...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:bbba7302.04071...@posting.google.com...
We follow Paul. It is safer to live under Paul than under your ignorance.
This is Moses' Christology:" Your God will send you the Messiah a prophet
like myself, him you shall listen." Deut 18:15 But here is Paul's
Christology:" In Christ dwells God in bodily form." And we have everything
needed. We are no longer living under Moses,fool.
"Not-easily-duped" <Codeb...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:bbba7302.04071...@posting.google.com...
Moses is not God. The fact is that Christology evolved to fit the
sophisticate mind of Paul's time. Moses defined the basic element of
Christ's nature and Paul polished it.
The only God who called Moses is the same God who mandated Paul. There is no
contradiction but complementarity.
"Not-easily-duped" <Codeb...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:bbba7302.04071...@posting.google.com...
If you could just give us one reason why we should believe you rather
than the revelation entrusted to Paul, then maybe then we will take
you seriously. YOU ARE AT A LOSS
"Not-easily-duped" <Codeb...@bigsecret.com> wrote in message
news:bbba7302.04071...@posting.google.com...
Slade Farney
> http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/islam_definitivereply.aspx
>
>
> A Definitive Reply to Islam
>
>
> by Jerjis T. Alajaji
>
> <http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/history2.aspx>
>
> A casual reader of history will not fail to note the great and ferocious
> animosity of Islam to Christianity.
And vice versa. However, Christians were tolerated within Muslim
countries, as were Jews, fire worshipers from Persia, and others.
Islam had a great tradition of Freedom of Religion long before
Christianity bled itself white trying to invent it.
> One would ask why is this so, since
> both religions are supposed to worship the same God? The crux of the
> matter lies in focusing on the originators of these two religions, since
> followers of one or the other religion have a wide range of virtues or
> vices, resulting in complex and inscrutable historical developments.
>
> Therefore let us concentrate on the two leaders, Jesus Christ and
> Muhammad. Let us look at their lives, what they both said and more
> importantly what they did. Which one of the two was forgiving, a
> peacemaker, kind, magnanimous? Which one would you trust more to be your
> friend? Which one was self-serving? Which one gave of himself and even
> his life for others? It is a relatively simple comparison, and the
> differences are obvious from their respective biographies. Which one of
> the two was interested in earthly power, a legalistic worldly empire,
> many wives and concubines? (in the Quran, Muhammad blesses the union of
> a man with four wives, except for himself, where he is blessed to have
> eight). Did Muhammad love his enemies or kill them?
Jesus supposedly endorsed the Old Testament of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob,
Moses, and David. The last three were war criminals who massacred
other races and took women and children in slavery. Jacob permitted
this atrocity of his sons when they massacred the Hivites in Genesis
34, and Moses and David killed too many people to count, including
non-combattants, women, and children. They were filthy war criminals
and slavers. They had multiple wives and fathered children on their
female slaves.
Now you want to compare religions? Those cut-throat "prophets" are
the patriarchs of all three of them, and their foundations are soaking
in blood. Read high-points and excerpts of those famous scriptures at
http://www.come-and-hear.com/supplement/ot-select.html
It is barely possible that Jesus did not endorse the bloody prophets,
nor did he endorse the Old Bad Jehovah, who delighteth in the smoke
from burning animal bodies and commandeth the massacre of innocents.
The dirty fingers of too many Pharisees have worked over the Gospels
to know clearly what Jesus taught.
But it is certain that the Jewish establishment hated Jesus and
sentenced Jesus to death, though they persuaded the Romans to kill
him.
> We have many historically well documented witnesses who testify who
> Jesus is, who recorded His life, teachings, and deeds in the Gospels and
> Epistles, and who died martyrs' deaths for Him, without gaining any
> material benefits in return from a worldly point of view. There are also
> secular historians who are outsiders to the Christian tradition, such as
> the Jews Josephus and Philo, and the pagans Tacitus, Pliny, and
> Suetoneus, who have recorded corroborating facts about Jesus and his
> followers.
Josephus does not mention the existence of Jesus, and it is not hard
to understand why: Josphus was a Pharisee.
> In fact, during the first three centuries of the rise of
> Christianity, being a follower of Christ usually resulted in great
> hardship, persecution, and often martyrdom.
A good read of Acts shows that many persecutors of Christians were
Jews. They sentenced St. Stephen to death and stoned him outside of
town -- for being a Christian.
> All the apostles died as
> martyrs except St. John the Evangelist. A great many of the early Church
> leaders died as martyrs. Why would any of these intelligent and eloquent
> people, many highly educated, be ready to die for the cause of Christ if
> they were not convinced that He is True? On the other hand, we know that
> Islam from the outset was very militaristic and conquered by the sword,
> bestowing great earthly benefits on Muhammad himself and his entourage,
> granting power, wealth, and all the prestige that empire building reaps.
We do know that Islam brought much wealth to many peoples in the first
centuries of Islam. The tribes all over Asia and Asia Minor made a
daily habit of murdering and enslaving each other. Islam brought a
unified faith, a unified language, and a code of conduct that forbade
killing non-combattants.
Perhaps you ask too much of religion: Europeans, though Christian,
have been murdering each other for 1200 years. The people of Asia
Minor, though Muslim, have been doing the same.
> His followers were ready to die for him, with a sword in hand, a very
> different situation than the early followers of Christ, who were
> peaceful subjects falsely accused and tortured by pagan Rome. Mohammad
> is the only source of the Quran. There is no other source of information
> to validate what he claims to be. He did not perform any miracles.
You know so little. The Quran itself is considered a miracle of
poetry, beauty, and language. The Quran became the definition of the
language; Quranic Arabic was so clear, it became a root of wisdom;
it is a language in which so much poetry, science, mathematics, and
philosophy was written. Islam had a vast and rich civilization while
Europe was still squatting in dank castles, praying in a dead
language, and refusing to bathe.
> His
> claim is that the beauty of the Quran is a sufficient miracle, but may I
> suggest that his cousin Ali's writings are sometimes equally or more
> eloquent? If Islam is true, why is it that Muslims are encouraged to
> kill other Muslims who leave Islam?
If Judaism is true, why did Jehovah order the Hebrews to kill other
Hebrews who tried to leave Judaism?
Deuteronomy 13:6-11
6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter,
or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul,
entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which
thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh
unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even
unto the other end of the earth;
8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither
shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou
conceal him:
9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him
to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath
sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee
out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such
wickedness as this is among you.
Read the whole chapter. It will put curl in your hair.
http://biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible?version=KJV&passage=deut+13
--Slade
Qolon
worshippers and cults of Mithra which prevailed throughout Pagan Rome and
Ahura Madza {Kings Darius the Great and Xerxes}of the cult of
Zorastrian--where are they today?
- dolf
"Slade Farney" <sfa...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:abe991f.04071...@posting.google.com...
And vice versa. However, Christians were tolerated within Muslim
countries, as were Jews, fire worshipers from Persia, and others.
Islam had a great tradition of Freedom of Religion long before
Christianity bled itself white trying to invent it.
[ snipped for context ]
Alexander Arnakis
wrote:
>
>And vice versa. However, Christians were tolerated within Muslim
>countries, as were Jews, fire worshipers from Persia, and others.
>Islam had a great tradition of Freedom of Religion long before
>Christianity bled itself white trying to invent it.
>
extended only to "People of the Book" -- that is, Jews and Christians
-- and only insofar as they didn't resist or dispute Moslem rule. So
the bottom line is that you could be "tolerated" by Islam as long as
you agreed to live essentially as a slave. It's true that some
Christians and Jews became quite wealthy under some Moslem regimes,
but this was like being a kept bird in a gilded cage. That's why
slogans, such as that of the Greeks before the uprising of 1821,
resonated: "Better to have one hour of free life rather than forty
years of slavery and prison." And remember, the Ottoman regime against
which the Greeks were rebelling was far more "tolerant" than today's
Saudi theocracy and its ilk.
Pastor Steve Winter
>Often, when a grotesque murder in Iraq or a beating in Europe occurs, we
>see more concern about protecting Muslim rights than in cleansing Islam
>of its extremists.
See http://www.allahislam.com for a bit of history and some
online Muslim skill tests.
Pastor Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
Tasos
Posted: March 18, 2003
1:00 a.m. Eastern
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=31571
By Aaron Klein
© 2003 WorldNetDaily.com
I've heard a lot of rumors lately about the Muslim Student Association – the national organization of Muslim college students that boasts chapters in over a thousand colleges across America and Canada, and is one of the most influential religious organizations around. They've been accused of promoting Islamic fundamentalism and inviting speakers who spew violent anti-American rhetoric. I thought I'd check things out for myself.
I'm Jewish, but thanks to my Middle Eastern features, I can easily pass for an Arab. So, last week, I attended a closed (as in Muslim students only) meeting sponsored by the MSA at Queensborough Community College, just across the bridge from me in Manhattan.
The event featured a speech about Iraq by two American-based leaders of Al-Muhajiroun, a well-known Islamic fundamentalist organization that supports the ideology of Osama bin Laden, and whose worldwide leader, Sheikh Omar Bakri Muhammad, has long been suspected of ties with al-Qaida.
I arrived at the mid-sized classroom in the Humanities building of the college. About 20 students were in attendance. The males were on their knees, barefoot, completing afternoon services, while the women sat clustered in the back, traditional scarves covering their heads.
The president of the Queensborough MSA distributed soda and slices of pizza, and then introduced the two speakers – Abu Yousuf and Muhammad Faheed.
Yousuf, 20, looked like a regular college student – dark skin, clad in black jeans and a gray sweater. He was born in America, and became involved with Al-Muhajiroun at age 15. He says he attended a "camp" in Sudan last year, and now leads the New York chapter of the organization.
Faheed, 23, stood out a bit more. A freshly grown beard complimented his brown turban, long white robe and a green military sweater with Arabic writing on it. He was born in Pakistan, and says he immigrated to America at age 3 and now assists Yousuf with Al-Muhajiroun in New York.
Yousuf took the podium first. He began in Arabic: "With thanks to Allah we are here. I testify that there is no God but Allah ... May Allah grant that I speak only the truth."
He then switched to English, and explained that the war against Iraq is about oil and Western dominance over Muslim nations under the pretext of disarmament. He argued that President Bush is starting a "Christian crusade to rid the world of Islam," and that after Iraq, America will likely attack the rest of the Arab countries.
He said that a war with Iraq will cause a major humanitarian crisis in which American soldiers "starve, rape and murder our brothers and sisters," and that something must be done if that happens.
"America is hypocritical," he asserts. "Now it says it must 'disarm' Saddam, but they armed him in the first place! And most of the crimes against Saddam's people were committed while America supported him and turned a blind eye to his atrocities."
Yousuf disregards the argument that America is trying to liberate the Iraqi people and fight terrorism: "America doesn't want Saddam attacking his own people, so what are they going to do to liberate the Iraqis? Attack Saddam's people!"
"Because there is no way to justify this war," Yousuf said, "we must find a solution." He then introduced Brother Faheed to explain just what that solution is.
Faheed immediately declared that there is an outright conspiracy against Islam by Christians and Jews, and that as Muslims, "we must not recognize any government authority, or any authority at all besides Allah."
"We are not Americans," he shouted. "We are Muslims. [The U.S.] is going to deport and attack us! It is us vs. them! Truth against falsehood! The colonizers and masters against the oppressed, and we will burn down the master's house!"
Faheed argued that it is against the Koran for Muslims to protest the American government because that would constitute unfaithfully recognizing the authority of a non-Muslim country.
"We reject the U.N., reject America, reject all law and order. Don't lobby Congress or protest because we don't recognize Congress! The only relationship you should have with America is to topple it!"
Faheed explained that those in attendance should also reject the authority of secular Muslim states such as Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Turkey, "which have been bought out by America ... Mushariff gets $60 Million a month to betray and arrest us."
Faheed said the war against Iraq would be "felt in America," and that U.S. Muslims would soon be in danger and should prepare themselves for a battle with the American people.
I was particularly concerned when he indicated his support for terrorist organizations.
"The so-called terrorists are the only people who truly fear Allah. Since everyone fears the worldly things that Allah controls, they therefore fear these Islamic organizations [which have been labeled terrorist organizations]. We must join with these organizations. They are the only worthy causes, and the mighty superpower only fears them."
That seemed the main thrust of his presentation – that the proper Muslim response to an American war with Iraq should not be intellectual or to protest against the government, but to join "appropriate" Muslim organizations and prepare for some sort of physical confrontation with America.
Faheed explained that the U.S. is "not strong. Vietnam, they lost. Somalia, they ran away from. America hasn't won anything since World War II. We can defeat America."
"Eventually there will be a Muslim in the White House dictating the laws of Shariah."
Faheed then opened the floor to questions, and I immediately asked what it is that people in the room should do, what specific organizations they should join. Al-Qaida? Hamas? Hezbollah?
Faheed said that he "already answered that question – you must join true Muslim organizations."
But he was nonspecific. I asked for names, details.
Yousuf took over and told the students to "use the Koran to divine whether a Muslim organization is true – does it recognize the authority of the West? Does it use true Muslim principles for guidance?"
"You see, there is only one good Muslim organization out of every 73."
He still wouldn't mention specific groups, or even directly promote his own organization.
The students in the room asked basic but complimentary questions like, "How can we support the people in Iraq financially?" and "What kind of rhetoric should we use when we talk with non-Muslims about the situation?"
People started to trickle out, and the MSA leader thanked everyone for coming.
I had a chance to chat for a few minutes in private with the leaders of Al-Muhajiroun. Yousuf explained that he speaks at many colleges throughout the New York area, and that most of his speeches are arranged by the MSA. In fact, Yousuf invited me to a speech he was giving the very next day being sponsored by the MSA of Marymount College in Manhattan.
As I helped Yousuf and Faheed clean up the pizza boxes and empty plates, I wondered how students likely receiving federal aid to attend a public college can agree with speakers who promote the destruction of the very government that is educating them? Whether some of these students would consider joining the kinds of organizations that were being promoted? How such rhetoric can be accepted at an American university?
And when I walked out, I realized that those rumors about the MSA had just been confirmed.
Pastor Steve Winter
Yogensha
>
>Often, when a grotesque murder in Iraq or a beating in Europe occurs, we
>see more concern about protecting Muslim rights than in cleansing Islam
>Jews, they are labeled as being Islam haters. When Jews are knifed in
>the street by Muslims, we are told the attack has absolutely nothing to
>do with Islam.
Perhaps that is because:
1. Most ignorant individuals don't comprehend that the actions of
political extremists don't represent the teachings of a religion, nor
the society which claims allegience to this religion, and thus they
use this for their own twisted purposes to violate human rights and
attempt to turn the many times uninformed public opinion against
Muslims.
2. The actions of Bush and his "war on Terrorism" have done nothing to
"cleanse Islam of its extremists," but instead has produced fertile
soil and ripe conditions for growing even more extremists, especially
in the areas which he has destabilized, and across the entire region
given that he has sent the message that not only does he not care
about the facts, he believes he has the right to attack any country
for whatever reason he desires, and that he has no respect for the
sovereignty of any country. We can see this in the war efforts of
Afghanistan, where the United States' administration fought the
Soviets via proxy and then tucked tail and ran, leaving others with
the bill for this war; then later, backing the Taliban only to run
away once again when things went sour; then in Iraq, with his dubious
claims of WMD, then the WMD programs, then the desire for WMD (his
lies changing when the truth is revealed); and now we are hearing the
familiar claims of WMD in Iran, and Iran in league with Al Qaeda (much
like they say Saddam was, as well.)
I agree with you when you say that the extremists must be removed from
Islam. The problem is that, instead of taking away the factors which
cause these extremists to rise and gain public support, nothing is
being done except justifying their causes in the eyes of the world,
and producing the conditions for even more to spring up in the coming
years.
Yogensha
Slade Farney
> On 17 Jul 2004 18:57:53 -0700, sfa...@bigfoot.com (Slade Farney)
> wrote:
> >
> >And vice versa. However, Christians were tolerated within Muslim
> >countries, as were Jews, fire worshipers from Persia, and others.
> >Islam had a great tradition of Freedom of Religion long before
> >Christianity bled itself white trying to invent it.
> >
> Islam is most certainly *not* a "tolerant religion." Toleration
> extended only to "People of the Book" -- that is, Jews and Christians
> -- and only insofar as they didn't resist or dispute Moslem rule.
Well frost my shorts! What kingdom anywhere has ever permitted people
to overthrow the king? Or "resist" the government?
> So
> the bottom line is that you could be "tolerated" by Islam as long as
> you agreed to live essentially as a slave.
Correction, as a law-abiding citizen. You just step out on an
American street and dispute the authority of the police force and see
how far it gets you. Now throw yourself back 500 years and dispute
the authority of the king of England on the streets of London. I'm
not saying it is right. I am saying you should apply your standards
universally.
And while Islam was in flower, free of the imperial European powers,
most Europeans lived as serfs -- essentially slaves of the landowners.
If you want to judge, judge evenly.
> It's true that some
> Christians and Jews became quite wealthy under some Moslem regimes,
> but this was like being a kept bird in a gilded cage. That's why
> slogans, such as that of the Greeks before the uprising of 1821,
> resonated: "Better to have one hour of free life rather than forty
> years of slavery and prison."
Oh, my, how easliy you write of freedom and death. The rich man is
always the freest man in any society. Until you live all your waking
hours shackled to a plow or a loom, you know nothing of freedom or
slavery.
> And remember, the Ottoman regime against
> which the Greeks were rebelling was far more "tolerant" than today's
> Saudi theocracy and its ilk.
The Saudi regime is a creation of the CIA and American oil interests.
The Saudi royal family is propped up by American guns, and would not
be in power if not for America. The Saudis are not Muslim -- back in
the 60's they ordered solders to fire machine guns into an unarmed
procession of Haj pilgrims, the most sacred of all Muslim religious
ceremonies. No Muslim would do that.
--Slade
Not-easily-duped
>
>
> A Definitive Reply to Islam
>
>
> by Jerjis T. Alajaji
>
> <http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/general/history2.aspx>
>
> A casual reader of history will not fail to note the great and ferocious
> animosity of Islam to Christianity. One would ask why is this so, since
> both religions are supposed to worship the same God? The crux of the
> matter lies in focusing on the originators of these two religions, since
> followers of one or the other religion have a wide range of virtues or
> vices, resulting in complex and inscrutable historical developments.
>
> Therefore let us concentrate on the two leaders, Jesus Christ and
> Muhammad. Let us look at their lives, what they both said and more
Then you are aclueless and pompous jerk. If you really think that
it is about Jesus against Mohammad You know nothing,and
I would advise any reader not to waste his precious time.
Pastor Steve Winter
>Faheed argued that it is against the Koran for Muslims to protest the
>American government because that would constitute unfaithfully
>recognizing the authority of a non-Muslim country.
>
>"We reject the U.N., reject America, reject all law and order. Don't
>lobby Congress or protest because we don't recognize Congress! The only
>relationship you should have with America is to topple it!"
See also http://www.allahislam.com
Slade Farney
> "Callodyn Bradlock" <xadin...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c33c5677.04062...@posting.google.com...
> According to the first and second of the Ten Commandments, to worship
> any other being apart from God, who is absolutely and fundamentally
> ONE in nature, is idolatry.
>
> Those who worship Jesus are comitting an act of idolatry and are
> deserving of the death penalty.
>
> 9).
Deserving of death, is it? And you call the Arabs terrorists?
When someone points out that the early Christians were persecuted by
Jews more than by Romans, you call him an anti-Semite. Yet listen to
this fanatical Jew, preaching the same doctrines of the rabbis from
1500 years ago.
The official attitude of Judaism toward non-Jews is publicly
tolerance. But privately and religiously it is "off with their
heads". Judging by the literature in Judaism, Islam, and
Christianity, and judging from the most wild-eyed preachers lie this
one, Judaism is truly the most frightening and intollerant of all
three religions.
By actual historical record, Christians and Muslims permitted
non-believers to live among them. Jews have been tolerated in both
cultures -- maybe not happily, and maybe not welcomed -- but they were
not (usually) slaughtered. They were permitted to prosper.
But read the Old Testament some time to see the Jewish record. When
they had a free hand in their own country to wield autonomous power,
extermination was the policy. Thus went the Amaleks and the Seven
Nations of Canaan.
And thus it will be again, if fools like this one ever rise to power.
Thus is the Jewish policy to Christians and Gentiles: "They deserve
the death penalty". http://come-and-hear.com/editor/gentile.html
--Slade
Qolon
to be:
1) responding to a post I made on 26 June, 2004 being some 26 days ago.
2) the post includes no referenced comment by me, yet includes appears to
convey otherwise.
3) you are engaging in historical revisionism as the Jews persecuted by the
Romans were Jewish-Christians
4) your lack of integrity to discourse conveys the impression that your
anti-semitism is SPAM.
The biblical record doesn't support your view that 'anti-Semitism is pious'
as your nebulus claim to being Christian: "The Spirit of the Lord is upon
me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath
sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives,
and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are
bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he closed the book,
and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them
that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. And he began to say unto
them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears." [Luke 4:18-21]
It appears that he was approved-CHRIO (the same root word as Christ) of God,
and that God raised him up--the power came from God and that he was the
harbinger of the everlasting covenant as {Autonomous Nature (Form of
Nature)} being of God.
Others held relative covenant equivalence before him: "Let us therefore
fear, lest, a promise being left us of entering into his rest, any of you
should seem to come short of it. For unto us was the gospel preached, as
well as unto them: but the word preached did not profit them, not being
mixed with faith in them that heard it.
ARCHE
#1 - Adam {Nature amended in its Nature (Nature contains Nature)}
#2 - Noah {Act of Nature (Nature rejoices in its Nature)}
#3 - Abraham {Form of Nature (Nature surmounts Nature)}
#4 - Moses {Engendering Nature (Nature amended in its Nature)}
#5 - Daniel {Transforming Nature (Act of Nature)}
#6 - Jesus {Autonomous Nature (Form of Nature)}
#7 - Telos {Totality of Nature(Engendering Nature)}
For we which have believed do enter into rest, as he said, As I swore {ie.
to swear an oath is spoken of as to seven oneself: "For when God made
promise to Abraham, because he could swear by no greater, he sware by
himself, Saying, Surely blessing I will bless thee, and multiplying I will
multiply thee. And so, after he had patiently endured, he obtained the
promise. For men verily swear by the greater: and an oath for confirmation
is to them an end of all strife. Wherein God, willing more abundantly to
show unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it
by an oath: That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God
to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay
hold upon the hope set before us: Which hope we have as an anchor of the
soul, both sure and stedfast, and which entereth into that within the veil;
Whither the forerunner is for us entered, even Jesus, made an high priest
for ever after the order of Melchisedec." [Hebrews 6:13-20]
} in My wrath, 'They shall not enter My rest,'although the works were
finished from the foundation of the world. For He has spoken in a certain
place of the seventh day in this way: 'And God rested on the seventh day
from all His works'; and again in this place: 'They shall not enter My
rest.' Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom
it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, again He
designates a certain day, saying in David, 'Today,' after such a long time,
as it has been said: 'Today, if you will hear His voice, Do not harden your
hearts.' For if Joshua {ie. Jesus} had given them rest, then He would not
afterward have spoken of another day. There remains therefore a rest for the
people of God." [Hebrews 4:3-9]
"Ye men of Israel, hear these words; Jesus of Nazareth, a man approved-CHRIO
of God among you by miracles and wonders and signs, which God did by him in
the midst of you, as ye yourselves also know: Him, being delivered {ie.
surrendered} by the determinate {ie. to appoint, decree, specify:-declare,
determine, limit, ordain} counsel-BOULE {will, mind, purpose, counsel} and
foreknowledge-PROGNOSIS of God, ye have taken, and by wicked hands have
crucified and slain: Whom God hath raised-ANISTEMI {ie.
Do you deny the efficacy {ie. capacity for serving to produce effects;
effectiveness} and efficiency {ie. the fact or quality of being efficient;
competency in performance; the ratio of work done or energy developed by a
machine, engine, etc., to the energy supplied to it}of the resurrection of
the Saviour as being raised-ANISTEMI, which is not adequately shown by the
expression: dead-NEKROS, no-MEKETI more-EPISCHUO and is reduced to the point
of redundancy, particularly when you show pariality in interpreting the
expression of [John 8:11] as: "go-POREUOMAI sin-HAMARTANO no-MEKETI
more-EPISCHUO"
It ought to read: "he raised-ANISTEMI him up from the dead-NEKROS,
henceforth-MEKETI vigorous-EPISCHUO {
compare to "go-POREUOMAI sin-HAMARTANO henceforth-MEKETI the more-EPISCHUO"
[John 8:11] and "go-POREUOMAI in peace-EIRENE {prosperity: one, peace,
quietness, rest, + set at one again}" [Luke 7:50]
} ) not to return-HUPOSTREPHO to corruption-DIAPHTHORA" [Acts 13:34]
} up, having loosed-LUO the pains-ODIN {especially of child birth} of
death-THANATOS: because-KATHOI it was not possible-DUNATOS {ie by virtue
of outward power, powerful, influential, strength, potential} that he should
be holden-KRATEO {ie. BY USE OF VIGOUR OR STRENGTH RETAINED BY IT} of it."
[Acts 2:22-24]
- dolf
"Slade Farney" <sfa...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:abe991f.04072...@posting.google.com...
the death penalty". http://come_and_hear.com/editor/gentile.html
--Slade
Slade Farney
> It is singularly dishonest and a destitution of any claim to spiritual life
> to be:
>
> 1) responding to a post I made on 26 June, 2004 being some 26 days ago.
So long ago, you don't believe what you wrote any more? Then what is
the complaint.
> 2) the post includes no referenced comment by me, yet includes appears to
> convey otherwise.
The post was from you in a new thread that you started. If you don't
believe his words, you have no business putting his words in your post
-- unless you leave it in the thread so readers can follow the
conversation. This is a public forum.
> 3) you are engaging in historical revisionism as the Jews persecuted by the
> Romans were Jewish-Christians
The Romans fought a war against Jerusalem to suppress a rebellion.
The Romans also persecuted Christians in Rome -- and those Christians
were of all nationalities. The Jew also persecuted Christians in
Judea (Israel) because religious intollerance is an essential part of
Judaism:
Deuteronomy 13:6-11
6 If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter,
or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul,
entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which
thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers;
7 Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh
unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even
unto the other end of the earth;
8 Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall
thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou
conceal him:
9 But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him
to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people.
10 And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath
sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee
out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
11 And all Israel shall hear, and fear, and shall do no more any such
wickedness as this is among you.
Thus they dealt with Jesus, and thus they dealt with St. Stephen, and
thus with many other followers of Jesus.
> 4) your lack of integrity to discourse conveys the impression that your
> anti-semitism is SPAM.
I don't care what race you are. If you sign up to the Law of Moses,
you are a menace to civilization. It is your beliefs that make you
dangerous. YOU are the extremist and the misanthropist.
Moses was a war-criminal.
--Slade
Qolon
rhetoricaland revisionistic.
- dolf
"Slade Farney" <sfa...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:abe991f.04072...@posting.google.com...
So long ago, you don't believe what you wrote any more? Then what is
the complaint.
The post was from you in a new thread that you started. If you don't
believe his words, you have no business putting his words in your post
-- unless you leave it in the thread so readers can follow the
conversation. This is a public forum.
The Romans fought a war against Jerusalem to suppress a rebellion.
I don't care what race you are. If you sign up to the Law of Moses,
FD
> According to the first and second of the Ten Commandments, to worship
> any other being apart from God, who is absolutely and fundamentally
> ONE in nature, is idolatry.
>
> Those who worship Jesus are comitting an act of idolatry and are
> deserving of the death penalty.
>
> The true faith is Noah's covenant for non jewish people (see Genesis
> 9).
>
>
> Callodyn Bradlock
> Canberra, Australia
It sys "thou shalt have no god BEFORE me. I does not say you cannot
have other Gods. The hebrews worshipped the Teraphim, and, as the book
of Merlin tells us, the "hosts" were the planetary Gods, the real
words for them having been deliberately mistranslated by the Church,
after they left out many of the books of the original Bible. This, of
course was done to protect the Sacred truths and hidden secrets from
"swine" who could not understand it, and would just corrupt the power
these secrets could give. But anyhow, I do not see why you are trying
to discredit Jesus. Real druids have no problem with the Church, and
in fact, are members of it. St. Eugenes and St. Rose in Santa Rosa are
but two examples of Druid Churches, the former being designed by one
of us (and let me tell you, there are some real secrets hidden in the
architecture ;>) but, I think before you "tell the druids about what
God has trusted to them from the beginning of time", you should read
and reread the Bible. This will help you keep from making a fool of
yourself.
FD
UAOD
Slade Farney
> news:abe991f.04072...@posting.google.com...
>
"Qolon" <te...@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:<1j2Mc.12487$K53....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
> Your religious arguments continue to be specious, lacking in fidelity,
> rhetorical and revisionistic.
>
> - dolf
In other words, you don't care for my statements, you don't agree with
me, and your rabbi doesn't agree with me either.
Nevertheless, the Jews were under the law of Moses, and Moses required
them to stone religious reformers to death as quoted above. That was
the law of the land. So, when Jesus came along, they killed him.
It should not surprise anyone, including you.
They call you the dolf-bot. Is that because you cannot respond with
rational answers?
--Slade
Qolon
belief as being something other than racialism derived from Priapism!
- dolf
"Slade Farney" <sfa...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:abe991f.04072...@posting.google.com...
Qolon
Hebrews/Greek (et al = "And how is it that we hear, each in our own language
in which we were born? [Acts 2:5-12]) as Jews and Christians with their
transcendent chronological understanding of Providence as the first-ARCHE
principles-STOICHEION {
ie. the elements such as the letters of the alphabet (#20), as the
rudiments, primary and fundamental principles of any art, science, or
discipline may be considered as a paradigm, the pattern or example, a set of
concepts etc., that are shared by a community of scholars or scientists:
Telos = Arch + c²} of the oracles-LOGION {ie. the 10 Commandments [Romans
3:1-2]
} of God-THEOS" [Hebrews 5:12-14], is somehow sub-ordinated by deity made of
planetary associations--They regard as an anathema Baal-Poer or Priapism
worship.
I also note from your recent posts to alt.religion.druid that others find
your remarks to be incongruous. I have included contextual quotes from some
of those posts as it relates to this discussion thread which you reduced to
aus.religion.christian, alt.religion.druid, alt.religion.christian and they
appear below.
This response to your comment is obtained from a portion from a work in
progress document anticipated to be tabled before a Parliamentary Senate
Committee. As I am devulging such information within the public sphere, as
the nature and fruit of my philological studies these past 9 years, it means
I am not covered by the 'privilege' afforded individuals making submissions
to such Committee.
- dolf
"FD" <fruit...@planetholy.com> wrote in message
news:76894062.0407...@posting.google.com...
It sys "thou shalt have no god BEFORE me. I does not say you cannot
have other Gods. The hebrews worshipped the Teraphim, and, as the book
of Merlin tells us, the "hosts" were the planetary Gods, the real
words for them having been deliberately mistranslated by the Church,
after they left out many of the books of the original Bible. This, of
course was done to protect the Sacred truths and hidden secrets from
"swine" who could not understand it, and would just corrupt the power
these secrets could give. But anyhow, I do not see why you are trying
to discredit Jesus. Real druids have no problem with the Church, and
in fact, are members of it. St. Eugenes and St. Rose in Santa Rosa are
but two examples of Druid Churches, the former being designed by one
of us (and let me tell you, there are some real secrets hidden in the
architecture ;>) but, I think before you "tell the druids about what
God has trusted to them from the beginning of time", you should read
and reread the Bible. This will help you keep from making a fool of
yourself.
"I would just like to say thank you very much to all the men and boys who
went to the summer solistice ritual. There was drumming circles, dances, and
the boys put on a play. All this was done skyclad in the santa rosa lodge.
Bright blessing for the coming season!" ["FD" <fruit...@planetholy.com>
on Male magic...
2004-07-09 13:30:43 PST]
"Please tell me when and where the next one will be. I will pass the
information on to the FBI. This sort of thing does nothing to advance the
cause of Druidry.
Druids have no scyclad rituals, and always take pains to avoid even the
appearance of impropriety." [<THIS...@COTSE.NET> 12 Jul 2004 12:52:44 -0400
(EDT) DgHPC2LZBwu=.5DA659EE370C92CE...@1089651164.NULLUSER.COM]
"Please do not presume to tell the rest of us what does or does not
constitute Druidry or Druidic behavior, especially since service to Truth is
an integral part of Druidry & totally incompatible with acting as snitch for
the FBI.
How the hell do you know?? Do you own a time machine? It's documented that
Celts fought naked, & that Druids could be warriors as well, so I expect
they could have worked skyclad if they'd felt like it. Only moderns and
fundies have this big hang-up about nudity. Oh, and the ancient Celts were
also accepting of homosexual relationships--so perhaps you should take your
sputterings about propriety to alt.losers.homophobes where it would perhaps
find a more appreciative
audience. They might even be able to put you in touch with Adm.
Poindexter's office." [Dana (yo...@earthlink.net ) on Male magic...
2004-07-12 11:48:02 PST]
"There are certainly Druids in the UK who work skyclad, although amongst the
ones I know, it seems to be more that individuals who happen to be
naturists, also happen to be Druids, rather than a particular requisite of
Druidry per se. What I found of more concern, in the original post, was the
specific mention of "men and boys" from someone who posts to "prettyboy sex"
groups frequented by NAMBLA. I don't know if it's the same in the US, but in
Britain, gays have a hell of a time trying to get across to the uninformed
that homosexuality does not equal paedophilia, anymore than heterosexuality
does." ["Jani" <ja...@dsl.pipex.com> on Male magic... 14 Jul 2004 17:57:52
+0100]
"MELLOW OUT PEOPLE! no one, as far as I know, is a member of namble (I didnt
even know what it was till I looked it up). Only some kids went skyclad, and
most of them had parents there. It was cute, and there were no hardons. We
are a mixed lodge/grove, and there are many straights--some are even
republicans. Alot of what happens is in small groups within the larger
group, and many of us show up at the "official" lodges just to be seen and
stay offical, about once or twice a year. We are supposed to be Druids, and
open to new ideas. Everyone needs to mellow out." ["FD"
<fruit...@planetholy.com> on Male magic... 2004-07-20 14:37:50 PST]
"I don't know any Druids who are what you might call closed-minded,
especially where naturism or working skyclad is concerned (whether in
reference to themselves, or other people's practices). However, they're also
extremely protective of children, and well aware of the specious rationales
set out by paedophiles, especially those who use naturism and/or paganism as
a pseudo-justification. You might want to look back at your Google posting
history to see why there was something of a negative reaction to your
original post." ["Jani" <ja...@dsl.pipex.com> on Male magic... 21 Jul 2004
22:23:34 +0100]
"I don't know any Druids who are what you might call closed-minded,
especially where naturism or working skyclad is concerned (whether in
reference to themselves, or other people's practices). However, they're also
extremely protective of children, and well aware of the specious rationales
set out by paedophiles, especially those who use naturism and/or paganism as
a pseudo-justification. You might want to look back at your Google posting
history to see why there was something of a negative reaction to your
original post." ["Jani" <ja...@dsl.pipex.com> on Male magic... 2004-07-21
14:20:15 PST]
QOLON NOTE:
The most popular amongst these religious nomenclatures and that which were
still deployed by the time of St. Thomas Aquinas (1224-1275 CE), was the
angelic mystical schema as cosmic hierarchy proposed by the 6th century
neo-Platonic theologian Dionysius the Areopagite (Pseudo-Dionysius), upon in
John Scotus Erigena (c. 810-877 CE) as an Irish theologian and philosopher
bases his whole conception of Deity. (#17) When Erigena undertook to
translate them into Latin, he did vastly more than merely act as a
translator. He incorporated the principles of the Areopagite into his
celebrated treatise 'De Divisione Nature', in which his own speculative
system is contained, and which may be said to be as representative of his
mind as the 'De Principiis' is for Origen (185-254 CE) or the 'Summa
Theologica' for Saint Thomas:
"It will be remembered that, after maintaining as his fundamental position
that Deity cannot be defined because it cannot be comprehended, and that
nothing whatever can be affirmed concerning it beyond the fact of its being,
Erigena went on to justify the theologians of the Church in affirming the
Unity and the Trinity. But the grounds on which Erigena justified the
authorities of the Church are significant. He did not justify the doctrine
on the ground that it was a truth revealed, or because it was an inference
demanded of the fact and claim of Christ.
It is remarkable how obscure a place Christ occupies in Erigena's conception
of Deity. The ground on which Erigena would justify the doctrine is that
Unity and Multiplicity may fairly be ascribed to the First Cause of all
things, because Deity can be regarded in its simplicity as one and then
regarded as extended [in accord with Pythagorean number symbolism] into
multiplicity. But it is impossible to avoid the criticism that this
ascription of Unity and Multiplicity to Deity is not the same thing as the
doctrine of the Trinity. Nor is it obvious why the Trinity should be
substituted for Multiplicity. Moreover, this Multiplicity exists
subjectively in the human mind rather than in being of Deity: since it is
expressly forbidden by the author's fundamental principle to say anything
whatever concerning Deity beyond the fact that it exists." (#18)
Dionysius originated the distinction between cataphatic {ie. the production,
by way of negation, of straightforward, positive assertions about the nature
of God} and apophatic {ie. a metempirical assertion, as an attempt to gain
and express knowledge of God, by describing what God is not, rather than by
describing what God is} theology and in his treatise, 'The Ecclesiastical
Hierarchy', sought to establish angelic orders of intelligences, which were
reflected in the structure of the earthly church and presupposed to form a
continuum between God and the believer. These are typically equivalent to
the Kabbalistic conception of the 72 sacred names divided in three groups of
24 names conveyed by Jewish mystical literature contemporaneous to the
Christian era, such as the Sepher Raziel, Yetzirah, Bahir and Zohar. Being
classed into three Hierarchies, appointing them their respective offices in
the performance of the word and will of God: First Order (Those closest to
God); Second Order (Composed of the priest-princes of the court of heaven)
and the Third Order (Constituted by the ministering angels). Pope Innocent
III in his 1198 CE mystical treatise on Empire and Papacy, seemingly draws
upon these mythological allegories when he accordingly defines the Papal
authority, as:
"The creator of the universe set up two great luminaries in the firmament of
heaven; the greater light to rule the day, the lesser light to rule the
night. In the same way for the firmament of the universal Church, which is
spoken of as heaven, he appointed two great dignities; the greater to bear
rule over souls (these being, as it were, days), the lesser to bear rule
over bodies (those being, as it were, nights). These dignities are the
pontifical authority and the royal power. Furthermore, the moon derives her
light from the sun, and is in truth inferior to the sun in both size and
quality, in position as well as effect. In the same way the royal power
derives its dignity from the pontifical authority: and the more closely it
cleaves to the sphere of that authority the less is the light with which it
is adorned; the further it is removed, the more it increases in splendor."
(#19)
THE CHURCH'S TRIPLE STANDARD AS TREASON AGAINST AUTONOMY
If as Pope Innocent III (1198 CE) suggests, the papal authority is derived
from the Sun and the Moon, this is at divergence to Philo of Alexandria's
(20 BCE-50 CE) comment that even they are sub-ordinate to some other power:
'the sun and the moon, and the entire heaven and the whole world labor,
inasmuch as they are not endowed with independent power' [Philo of
Alexandria 20BCE-50CE, On Cherubim, #7, #88] being further related to a
heuristic attributed to a chronological based hermeneutic as a priori to the
natural, regulative and metempirical principles underlying the language
taxonomy as teleological argument: "For though by this time you ought to be
teachers, you need someone to teach you again the first-ARCHE
principles-STOICHEION {ie. the elements such as the letters of the alphabet
(#20), as the rudiments, primary and fundamental principles of any art,
science, or discipline may be considered as a paradigm, the pattern or
example, a set of concepts etc., that are shared by a community of scholars
or scientists: Telos = Arch + c²} of the oracles-LOGION {ie. the 10
Commandments [Romans 3:1-2]} of God-THEOS" [Hebrews 5:12-14]
Such a metaphysical hypothesis, relating to both the origins of language and
number as its principle purpose being an encyclical architecture for
establishing regimes of governance, is further sustained by several
immutable historical facts, namely:
a) A comment made by Queen Victoria's daughter, Princess Victoria recalling
the atmosphere of German nationalism, militarism and hatred of foreigners
describes the Kaiser's chancellor, Otto von Bismarck's autocratic ways, in a
letter to her mother, Queen Victoria in 1875, wherein she said: 'His views
of the press are medieval. In general he is a medieval person for whom the
true theories of freedom and modern government are like Hebrew.' (#21)
b) In many instances within Australia's history, the organizational prowess
of Freemasonry provided the impetus and foundational architecture for the
origin of Trade Unions and working peoples organizations. This function may
be readily observed in the mathematical matrix interpretation given to the
Hebrew letters and symbolism conveyed by the 100 year Memorial Capstone of
the Royal Arch Freemasons Australia dated 30 May, 1999, situated at the
Hotel Sofitel, 25 Collins Street, Melbourne. These Hebrew letters are
associated to the 'Universe of Discourse' as 9(9²+1)/2 (#369 vMeme/Moment
matrix) - 3(3²+1)/2 (#15) = 354 day, typical lunar cycle being a perennial
and organizational philosophy uniting reason, faith and the mechanism for
[#51, #66, #77, #37 - Non-Deeming Action/ Administration of Government /#73,
#9], as follows:
1) Mem = [#46, #71, #28, #48 - Forgetting/ Forgetting Knowledge]
2) Aleph = ie. #369 as [#53, #70, #69, #59 - A Sensible Guide/ Hold Fast To
Reason]
3) Shin = [#6, #69, #20, #70 - Difficulty in Knowing How/ Difficult to
Understand]
4) Kaf = [#1, #5, #61, #81 - Making the Essence Clear/ Propounding the
Essential]
5) Aleph = [#8, #4, #12, #2 - Contrast of Terms/ Self-Culture]
6) He = [#69, #3, #53, #13 - Status/ Loathing Shame]
7) Heth = [#64, #1, #4, #24 - Important Distinctions/ Trouble from
Indulgence]
8) Shin = [#71, #80, #45, #35 - Great Guiding Signs?/ The Virtue of
Benevolence]
At a time when Australian mateship is being denigrated and generational
dysfunction is widespread, there is little awareness of what used to tie
communities together, what 'solidarity' can mean or how the 'labour movement
' built it self in the first place. (#22)
Furthermore, the metaphor that the sun and the moon are sub-ordinate to a
natural, regulative and metempirical power as transcendent principle in
consequence of Providence, is that which Philo of Alexandria 20BCE-50CE as
Jewish political and theological propagandist, was "unable to trace out
accurately [concerning] the respective natures and powers of each,
therefore, [is] reduced to silence about them. (#23)" But nevertheless
remains analogous with the Philosopher Plato's insight that consciousness of
God rests in reason, the supreme function of man's spiritual life. With
which he contributed to the religious philosophy of antiquity one of its
most fruitful concepts: "...that reason, in virtue of its knowledge of
virtue, also controls moral action, is made clear in the metaphor of the
helmsman. As in the microcosm, man, so in the universe there rules as king
of heaven and earth (alethinos kai theios nous). In intercourse and marriage
with pure being (to auti autos) man brings forth nous (mind) and aletheia
(truth) [1 John 5:20]." [KITTEL 1995 IV:954]
It is not therefore possible for members of Christian communities of faith
to engage in the subject of homogeneity, as it has been meta-morphisosed by
religious fundamentalism in the latter part of the 20th century, without
giving any historical regard for the view that the theory of eugenics {ie.
bringing about improvement in the type of offspring produced; having good
inherited characteristics} and racialism which was foundational to German
socialism known as the Nazi Party, together with its theological
perspectives of anti-Semitism and homosexuality, obtained its predominant
impetus from Catholic theology.
It is imperative therefore that any Christian or other religious
denomination, fraternity, association or political lobbying group making
submissions to this Committee, be required by law to substantiate their
usage of the term 'Christian' as embodiment of their claim to such religious
belief-If they do not have a teleological statement as chronological 'a
priori' which they can make in support of such an otherwise insubstantial
claim to religious belief, it ought to be construed that they are simply
promulgating quasi-scientific, psychological and spiritual dogmas as the
institutional practice of treason against the autonomous rights of others:
"And above all things have fervent love for one another, for 'love will
cover a multitude of sins.' Be hospitable-PHILOXENOS to one another without
grudging. As each one has received a gift, minister it to one another, as
good stewards-OIKONOMOS {a house distributor (that is, manager), or
overseer, that is, an employee in that capacity; by extension a fiscal agent
(treasurer); figuratively a preacher (of the Gospel); chamberlain, governor,
steward} of the manifold grace of God. If anyone speaks, let him speak-LALEO
as the oracles-LOGION of God-THEOS." [1 Peter 4:8-11]
The primary question therefore arises, that in adopting an apophatic or
cataphatic theological conception of God as religious belief known by the
term Way-HODOS: "Nor can they prove the things of which they now accuse me,
But this I confess to you, that according to the Way {Gk. HODOS / Heb. DEREK
(of peace-SHALOM) [Romans 3:17]} which they call a sect [Acts 28:22], so I
worship the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the
Law and the Prophets. I have hope in God, which they themselves also accept,
that there will be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and the
unjust." [Acts 24:13-15]
Whereupon it draws its impetus from symbolic associations of Number-HETEROS,
in that it historically assigned to odd numbers a male attribution and to
even numbers a female attribution-giving them co-jointly a spermatic
quality. Whether such profession, being 'one not of the same nature, form,
class, kind, different' has a consequence upon our understanding- KATHORAOA
{to behold fully, that is, (figuratively) distinctly apprehend; clearly see}
of the eternal-AIDIOS power-DUNAMIS {Male Personification of Miraculous
Power} as Godhead-THEIOTES {Divinity as the Sefirot of the Kabbalah}
[Romans 1:19-23] and might be more appropriately characterized as specious.
Whilst many such religionists as hymenealists whose quasi-religious and
quasi-philosophical opinion evolved from magic theology, would advocate
marriage as the societal model and vehicle for human, religious and
Constitutional rights (ie. the freedom to have no belief) which is inclusive
of an atheist, the secondary consideration is whether such practice as
belief in God, also has an impact upon our understanding of the very
autonomous nature and extent of the equivalent-HOMOIOS {as being related to
Numbers as the square 9² = 81 or the product of two equal factors; Plato's
'ADELPHOIS NOMOIS'} and their reciprocal powers-EXOUSIAZO as unequivocally
equitable human, religious and Constitutional right, that is granted the
individual over their own-IDIOS body-SOMA:
"Nevertheless-DE, to avoid-DIA fornication-PORNEIA {ie. The betrayal of the
autonomous {autos / one's true self, the soul + nomos / Torah} nature by
hymeneal occult and idolatrous practice as claimed piety}, let
every-HEKASTOS {ie. male, female, one} man have-ECHO his own-HEAUTOU
wife-GUNE, and let every-HEKASTOS woman have-ECHO her own-IDIOS
husband-ANER. Let the husband-ANER render-APODIDOMAI unto the wife-GUNE
due-OPHEILO benevolence-EUNOIA: and likewise-HOMOIOS the-KAI wife-GUNE unto
the husband-ANER. The wife-GUNE hath not power-EXOUSIAZO of her own-IDIOS
body-SOMA, but the husband-ANER: and likewise-HOMOIOS also-KAI the
husband-ANER hath not power-EXOUSIAZO of his own-IDIOS body-SOMA, but the
wife-GUNE." [1 Corinthians 7:2-4]
The Greek word HOMOIOS meaning 'similar or like' which is often used in
parabolic mystery formulas as being descriptive of the nature of the kingdom
of heaven [Matthew 13:24-52], implies that the same equitable
power-EXOUSIAZO as autonomy over his/her own-IDIOS body-SOMA is granted to
the individual as being unequivocally equal rights pursued as the Way with
virtue and integrity. That is, the term HOMOIOS means:
i) Of the same kind; like or resembling;
(1) those who have the same position and rights;
ii) Of like disposition; the same;
(1) men of the same mind or party; of the same rank or station
(2) expression of closeness of agreement
(3) one and the same
(4) the same as usual
(5) all one to us
(6) homois antapodidonai give 'tit for tat'
(7) on equal terms, in fair fight
iii) In relation to possessions, 'belonging equally in common'
(1) accruing equally to all, general
(2) approaching all equally
iv) In geometry, 'similar' of figures'
(1) of triangles in the sense of equal
(2) of numbers (the square of a number as the product of two equal factors
v) Emphasizing the agreement by which one thing is similar or equal to
another
vi) Hebrew equivalent is Mem (#40) + Yod (#10) + Final Nun (#50 / #500) =
#100 / #550 {species as one of the same nature, form, class, kind, same;
stalk of corn; him, her, it; sexual intercourse, salaciousness; feast of
dedication of a temple / Arrow; By; Aphrodite Cythereia as the Greek Goddess
associated with the planet Venus, of eternal beauty and erotic desire who
according to legend, when taken to Olympus and presented to Zeus and the
other gods. Everyone admired her and was dazzled by her beauty. She had many
sexual relationships including Zeus (Jupiter), Ares (Mars), Poseidon, her
brothers Hermes and Dionysus and mortals such as Anchises a prince of
Dardania (near Troy), as many of those who wanted her as their own wife.
According to mythical accounts given of Greek Legend Priapus was conceived
from an illicit rape and solicitations by Zeus (or Dionysus) of Aphrodite;
but Hera as Zeus' wife in a jealous rage performed an incantation on the
still pregnant Aphrodite, rendering the infant deformed by enlarged
genitalia. Priapus was the god who presided over the fertility of vegetable
crops. He was also worshipped as the protector of sheep, goats, bees, the
vine, and of all garden produce. The god depicted here in a fresco from
the ancient Roman city of Pompeii (destroyed in 79 CE
<http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/telos/images\priapism.jpg>) is of a
dwarfish man with oversized red genitals and wearing a Phygian cap. His
statue was set-up in vegetable plots to promote garden fertility but doubled
as a 'scarecrow' to keep away birds};
Or Kaf (#20) + Mem (#40) + Vav (#6) = #66 {like = HOMOIOS; damage, loss;
babbler as spermologist [Acts 17:16-21] or seed-picker as crow [Matthew
13:3-30; Mark 4:3-29; Luke 8:5-18]; total books in the bible}
(1) [#66, #15, #76, #25 - What's behind it all?/ Imaging the Mysterious/
#72, #10]
(2) [#51, #66, #77, #37 - Non-Deeming Action/ Administration of Government/
#73, #9]
(3) [#26, #10, #66, #5 - Natural Guidance/ The Function of Emptiness/ #54,
#28]
(4) [#22, #74, #56, #66 - Strategic Reversal/ Putting Oneself Behind/ #36,
#46]
(5) [#48, #55, #19, #49 - Sage's Constancy/ Trust in Virtue/ #66, #16]
(6) [#34, #65, #63, #33 - Achievable Goals/ The Virtue of Discrimation/ #16,
#66]
Among the Spartans and in other aristocratic and oligarchical {ie. where
power is vested in the few} societies, the term 'hoi homoioi' describes
individuals of the same rank or station. It is over the inscription upon the
altar to the 'agnostos theos' (Unknown God) to which the Apostle Paul
directs his defence against ridicule. Even though history fails to record
the decisive term 'Xenos' as 'stranger or an anonymous hero-saviour'
associated as the character central to the drama of the event on Mars Hill,
the Athenians serious intent is established by Jerome's (c. 347 - 420) note
on the inscription: 'Diis Asiae et Europae et Africae diis ignotis et
peregrinis {ie. OF DIVINE MATTERS ASIA, EUROPE AND AFRICA ARE DESTITUTE
BEING IGNORANT AS FOREIGNERS OR BARBARIANS OF THE SUBSTANCE OF THINGS}'. But
above all it is God's answer to a serious question, like the no less
specifically oriented address by the Apostle Peter in [Acts 2:12-39]. The
Athenians, of course, ask in the sense of a religio eventualis {ie. true
religion is the result of action}, whereas Paul proclaims, not the one
unknown and true god of the philosophy of religion with all their illicit
sexual affairs embellished by mythology, but the very different God who for
the world is in fact a strange God in the ultimate sense. [KITTEL 1995, V:8]
"Let brotherly-philadelphia love-philadelphia continue-meno. Do not
forget-epilanthanomai to entertain-philonexia strangers-philonexia, for by
so doing some have unwittingly entertained angels. Remember the prisoners as
if chained with them, and those who are mistreated, since we ourselves are
in the body also. Marriage is honorable among all, and the bed undefiled;
but fornicators and adulterers God will judge." [Hebrews 13:1-4]
Whilst the Godhead cannot be set forth with the help of earthly or human
means, it exists within-ENTOS each, [Luke 17:21] as we are his offspring:
"...because what may be known of God is manifest in them, for since the
creation of the world his invisible attributes are clearly seen, being
understood by the things that are made, even his eternal-AIDIOS
power-DUNAMIS {Male Personification of Miraculous Power} and
Godhead-THEIOTES {Divinity as the Sefirot of the Kabbalah}, so that they are
without excuse, because although they knew God, they did not glorify him as
God, nor were they thankful, but became futile in their thoughts, and their
foolish hearts were darkened. Professing to be wise, they became fools, and
changed the glory of the incorruptible God into an image like corruptible
man-'The likeness of male and female' [Deuteronomy 4:16]" [Romans 1:19-23]
This view is further sustained by a 3rd century CE Nag Hammadi tractate
titled 'The Exegesis on the Soul', as one of the few literary examples to
survive systematic ecclesiastical attempts at censorship and genocide. (#24)
It accords us with a rare exegetical perspective on the notion of
'fornication-PORNEIA', saying: "But as to this prostitution the Apostles of
the Savior commanded [cf. Acts 15:20, 29; 21:25, 1 Thessalonians 4:3; 1
Corinthians 6:18; 2 Corinthians 7:1], 'Guard yourselves against it, purify
yourselves from it', speaking not just of the prostitution of the body but
especially of that of the soul. For this reason the apostles write to the
churches of God, that such prostitution might not occur among us. Yet the
greatest struggle has to do with the prostitution of the soul. From it
arises the prostitution of the body as well. Therefore Paul, writing to the
Corinthians [1 Corinthians 5:9-10], said, I wrote you in the letter, 'Do not
associate with prostitutes,' not at all meaning the prostitutes of this
world or the greedy or the thieves or the idolaters, since then you would
have to go out from the world. Here it is speaking spiritually-'For our
struggle is not against flesh and blood-as he said in [Ephesians 6:12]-but
against the world rulers of this darkness and the spirits of wickedness.'"
[The Nag Hammadi Library, © 1988 E. J. Brill, Leiden, The Netherlands, The
Exegesis of the Soul, 130:19-131:12]
FOOTNOTES:
#17 © Kessinger Publishing Company, C.E. Rolt, Pseudo-Dionysius the
Areopagite on the Divine Names & the Mystical Theology, p 203
#18 Pope Innocent III on Empire and Papacy 'The Moon and the Sun' Sicut
universitatis conditor. Ep. i, 401, October 1198 P.L. ccxiv. 337. Mirbt, no.
326
#19 The letters of the alphabet, primary body, element, 'shadow', the
more important denotation of the term stoicheion was 'a member of a row'.
The earliest attested use of the term stoicheion is in Plato Theaet. 201e,
where it is obvious that Plato still feels the original connotation of
'letter of the alphabet'. Aristotle uses the term to refer to the basic
ingredient of a composite (Meta. 1014a), or perhaps primary unit indivisible
into kinds different from itself. That means that the term is basically a
'formal' term that takes on its specific meaning from the 'thing' of which
it is primary component. Thus in the early literature stoicheia specifically
means such things as letters or phonemes that make up syllables, notes on a
musical scale, the components of physical bodies, the elementary principles
or rules of politics, etc. It was frequently used by philosophers in the
phrase, ta stoicheia tou kosmou, to refer to those primary components from
which the world was made, namely, earth, water, air, and fire; but that was
only one of its many specific meanings. By the time of the atomists,
stoicheion compares the basic bodies of the physical world to the letters of
the alphabet which have no significance of their own, but by manipulating
their order (taxis) and position (thesis) one can construct them into
aggregates with different meanings (Aristotle, Meta. 985b; De gen. Et corr.
I, 315b). Thus stoicheion is a 'formal' word which means 'primary inherent
component,' and which takes on its specific meaning from the universe of
discourse from which it is taken. In that regard it is similar to the
English word 'element'. [Courtesy: Ian Dengler, [Basics of ] Stoicheion, a
predecessor term to ideometry and the philosophy of taxon, 25 May 2001]
#20 Hebrew taxonomy sequence obtained from the Memorial Capstone of Royal
Arch Freemasons Australia dated 30 May, 1999, Hotel Sofitel, 25 Collins
Street, Melbourne
#21 Bob James for the 6th Biennial Conference of the Australian Society
for the Study of Labour History, which was held 1-4 October 1999 in
Wollongong <http://www.takver.com/history/secsoc01.htm>
#22 If Philo of Alexandria (20 BCE-50 CE) is to be regarded as a
political and theological propagandist on behalf of Judaism of later
antiquity, or Josephus (37-100 CE) as an historical revisionist, the
expressions which characterize Old Testament usage of Derek /Hodos seems not
to find any empathy with them. [TDNT © 1967, 1995 edition V:65]
#23 See Appendix 'A' for the lexicon definition of the Greek word 'Hodos'
or the Hebrew word 'Derek' (German for 'Ruler') as a systematic approach to
governance and claim to Christian belief
#24 The scribal note to 'The Prayer of Thanksgiving' as a circa 2nd to
3rd century tractate found amongst the Nag Hammadi Library suggests the
matters conveyed by the cache of documents, as alternative theological
considerations may have been burdensome to the recipient to whom the scribe
was institutionally associated and hierarchically accountable: "I hesitate
to copy these for you because, perhaps they have (already) come to you, and
the matter may burden you. Since the discourses of that one, which have
come to me, are numerous." [© 1988 Brill, Leiden Netherlands, 'The Nag
Hammadi Library', p 329]
The 'Passion of Serge {net} & Bacchus' conveyed in Appendix 'B' is a classic
example of the literature from this period, which gives rise to the
consideration of 'Same Sex Unions' having a historical validity within
Hebrew/Greek Christian culture as opposed to that imposed by Roman State
Religion as Mithraicism being 'gross superstition' and 'worship and
sacrifices made to stones and wood, the devices of human beings, and the
consumption of obscene offerings' [cf. Acts 15:20, 29; 21:25, 1
Thessalonians 4:3; 1 Corinthians 6:18; 2 Corinthians 7:1]. The tractate
depicts 'Roman soldiers of high standing in the late 3rd to early 4th
century who enjoyed such close friendship with the emperor Maximian (286-308
CE) that they were able to have a friend Antiochus {speedy as a chariot}
appointed as a provincial governor of Augusto-Euphrates {increased,
augmented + that makes fruitful}. They were also Christians, united in
their love for each other in a way that recalls the description by the
reformed former Catholic theologian Tertullian (c. 150-240 CE) of a
Christian heterosexual married couple.' [© 1994 John Boswell, Same-Sex
Unions in Pre-Modern Europe, p 147]
Chet Lyle
> It is singularly dishonest and a destitution of any claim to spiritual life
> to be:
>
> 1) responding to a post I made on 26 June, 2004 being some 26 days ago.
> 2) the post includes no referenced comment by me, yet includes appears to
> convey otherwise.
> 3) you are engaging in historical revisionism as the Jews persecuted by the
> Romans were Jewish-Christians
> 4) your lack of integrity to discourse conveys the impression that your
> anti-semitism is SPAM.
>
> The biblical record doesn't support your view that 'anti-Semitism is pious'
Funny, I don't recall reading Slade express that view. Maybe you can
straighten us out on this.
> as your nebulus claim to being Christian: "The Spirit of the Lord is upon
> me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor; he hath
> sent me to heal the brokenhearted, to preach deliverance to the captives,
> and recovering of sight to the blind, to set at liberty them that are
> bruised, To preach the acceptable year of the Lord. And he closed the book,
> and he gave it again to the minister, and sat down. And the eyes of all them
> that were in the synagogue were fastened on him. And he began to say unto
> them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears." [Luke 4:18-21]
Ditto here: I recall not, Slade invoking the above.
What planet are you posting from?
Dolf, this is very penetrating, what you have just written. Hard to
understand in places, though.
Since what you've just said has a profound bearing on my life, maybe
you can enlighten me on a few fine points. If I follow you correctly,
in summary, what I believe you meant was that fantastic delphine
handgun hose s conner december clannish sibley repentant dizzy synonym
dietz anniversary astarte simile despite pop sideboard combination
indent shoestring taskmaster tuba arithmetic consolation felicity
highfalutin drudgery steer bulblet proctor wean inoculate raster
afflict lim deletion architectural explicate catkin botanic ephraim
migrant pablo militarist knick atchison beg cottony bridgewater
dogging backtrack darpa ranier became eagle confine elisha madmen
couturier elinor ecliptic fleawort landis left mcdonald anteroom abbot
augustan squeak filibuster disk burnish.
Am I more or less correct as to what you had in mind? I sense that I
follow you rather well, except insofar as your understanding of
fleaworts is concerned.
Keep right on trucking, Doofus. Your rabbi loves ya.
--Chet Lyle
Qolon
news:1de2435b.04072...@posting.google.com...
> The biblical record doesn't support your view that 'anti-Semitism is
pious'
Funny, I don't recall reading Slade express that view. Maybe you can
straighten us out on this.
[snipped as a false premise makes every other statement no less a lie]
QOLON NOTE:
I do recall saying that he was engaging in historical revisionism as the
Jews persecuted by the Romans were Jewish-Christians who refused to adopt
Baal-Poer or Priapism by being subjected to the Roman Governance who's
Caesar's claimed Divine honor as Godhead to themselves.
The Hebrew Torah Scholar, Greek Philosopher and Christian Apostle Paul has
in mind, that the death of Christ on the Cross brings about a
spoiling-apekduomai of the pagan Priesthoods aligned with Roman State
Religion as 'rulers-kosmokrater of the obscurity-skotos of this age-aion'
engaging in 'spiritual-pneumatikos wickedness-porneia' when he speaks of
'principalities-arche and powers-exousia, he made-deigmatizo a
show-deigmatizo of them openly-en-parrhesia, triumphing-thriambeuo'
[Colossians 2:15]. And is further emphasized by his elsewhere raising a
particular concern over the great sin of the bible. He is here using
language 'principalities-arche' and 'powers-exousia' normally associated
with a particular nomenclature as Kabbalistic celestial hierarchy of
governance by which it occurs-The advocacy of governance {HOMOIOS} as
defined by the definition of the Greek word HODOS or the Hebrew word Derek
(German for Ruler) as a systematic approach to governance and autonomous
{autos / ones true self, the soul + nomos / Torah} rights being
representative of Hebrew/Greek Jewish-Christian belief, which stands in
contrast to the denial of it as claimed religious belief which is
indistinguishable from present day fascist ideology (which we must as matter
of social conscience, strenuously object to) as nothing more than a
linguistic conception of hermetic mysticism as number {HETEROS as an
indefinite number, denoting the new member of a series distinct from those
which preceded and either carrying the series forward} derived philosophy or
theology of the magians--an aberration of reality:
"Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths
reasoned with them from the Scriptures, explaining and demonstrating that
the Christ had to suffer and rise again from the dead, and saying 'This
Jesus who I preach to you is the Christ.' .
But the Jews who were not persuaded becoming envious . dragged Jason {he
that cures} and some brethren to the rulers-politarches of the city, crying
out, 'These who have turned the world upside down have come here too. Jason
has harboured them, and these are all acting contrary to the decrees of the
Caesar, saying there is another-HETEROS king-Jesus.'" [Acts 17:2-7]
I ought to point out, that when speaking of HOMOIS being related to Numbers
as the square or the product of two equal factors {ie. Plato's 'ADELPHOIS
NOMOIS'}, recognition is being given to the view that Greek and Roman
mysticism as the foundation to Roman Christianity as state religious /
political entity was established upon magic or the curious arts [Acts
19:18-41]. Which erroneously assigned to odd numbers a male attribution and
to even numbers a female attribution and gave them co-jointly a spermatic
quality known by the Greek term: Other-HETEROS {ie. As an indefinite number,
denoting the new member of a series distinct from those which preceded and
either carrying the series forward}.
Other-HETEROS {ie. Secret of male & female}
The other, another, other
- to number
- the other of two
- to quality
- another: i.e. one not of the same nature, form, class, kind, different;
the others
- to number as opposed to some former person or thing [eg. Jesus of Nazareth
as the Messiah indicative of Faith-pistis 'KO INR' towards the Divine
Name-onama being 'YHWH ADNI' verses Pythagorean Tetractys/10 as
numerological triangulation upon the 'YHWH']
"This is Shem Hemaphorash {ie. The Divine Name of Extension}. It is the
beginning of all the names. The beginning is the highest name and the
lowest. Of the secret of male and female [and] Berash Adam Vochoveh. Of the
name of four letters: Yod He Vav Heh. The great and honored name is the
knowledge of our existence, the root of the invocation. Change the beginning
of all existence. Bind to deliver by the tried and proven essence of truth.
Of favorable existence, all was created by the wisdom and desire, according
to the decree of wisdom, the desire to bless. Decree the name (which are in
Gematria equivalent) of the twelve signs (over chaos), of twelve written
words combined {seemingly symbolically related to unity of the 10 Sefirot
(Number) as continuum being a 6 dimensional notion of space, time, morality
and gender containing opposites}.
YHVH {south - Chesed/Mercy}, YHHV, YVHH {above - Netzach/Victory}, HVHY,
HVYH {north - Gevurah/Strength}, HHYV, VHYH {west - Yesod/Foundation}, VHHY,
VYHH {east - Tiferet/Beauty}, HYHV, HYVH {below - Hod/Splendour}, HHVY [©
2000 Steve Savedow, The Sepher Rezial: The Book of the Angel Raziel, p 144]
Being further sustained by a symbolic theology derived from the Pythagorean
(c. 580-500 BCE) usage of the Triangulation of Number: n(n+1)/2 as
transposition applied to the Tetragrammation of 'YHWH' and known as the root
of nature or Tetractys, the 'Holy Four-fold Form'. That is:
SWEAR AN OATH AND REVERE {ie. Y + YH + YHV + YHVH ( )}:
Yod (10) as 4(4+1)/2 = 10 + (Kether - Prime Directive as Sefirot/Number)
Yod (10) + He (5) as 5(5+1)/2 = 15 + (Chokmah - Wisdom/Throne of Glory)
Yod (10) + He (5) + Vav (6) as 6(6+1)/2 = 21 + (Binah - Understanding of
Angels)
Yod (10) + He (5) + Vav (6) + He (5) = 26 (Malkhut - Dwelling of God in
Creation)
As the total of 72 (ie. 472 BCE) [c. 57/58 CE in Romans 2:17-24] and
existing prior to the year 457 BCE (72J2W1D) from whence the Hebrews had
made several population repatriations to Jerusalem from Babylonian exile [c.
400 BCE in Ezra 2:1-2; Nehemiah 7:6-7; 450 BCE in Esther 9:6-15].
The Dead Sea Scroll fragment '4Q390 as Prophetic Apocryphon or
4QPseudo-Moses' provides an alternate theological view, in that it speaks of
these repatriations associated with Jubilee chronology ('in the seventh
Jubilee' as 343 or 73 years: the 'oth {sign, signal; a distinguishing mark;
banner; remembrance; miraculous sign; omen; warning; token, ensign,
standard, miracle, proof} character as (73 - 72 years) produces a value of
294 [6J] years as a dynamic ratio within its result of 120J (ie. 20 x 6J)
Jubilees + 120 [2J3W1D] years [ie. Jubilee & Torah @ Sinai in [50J] + 12 x
[6J] + [3W1D] = 6,000 years]) transpiring with both Zerubbabel's rebuilding
of the 2nd Jerusalem Temple ('those who will be the first to go up from the
land of captivity in order to build the temple') under an initial decree
from King Darius I in circa 520 BCE [#49, #46, #59, #39 - Achieving Oneness/
The Root of Order/ #57, #25]. And under subsequent decree from King
Artaxerxes in 72J2W1D = 457 BCE [#9, #31, #51, #61 - Virtuosity at Using
'Beneath'/ The Virtue of Humility/ #59, #23], allowing the restoration of
the Judicatory and Administrative Process in accordance with the Laws of
Moses: ('I will speak to them and send them a precept / commandment and they
will understand all that they have abandoned, they and their fathers').
This notion that Divine Providence is determined by the 'oth {signs}
chronological principle as being 6J or 294 years may be associated with the
Telos as the Topical year/day solar eclipse Monday 25 December, 2000 + 6
days = 122J3W1D: "For eclipses are a natural consequence of the rules which
regulate the divine natures of the sun and moon; and they are indications
either of the impending death of some king, or the destruction of some city
[or] to such events as the consequences of the omens {'oth-signs} which I
have now been mentioning. ... For as the sun and moon exist in consequence
of Providence, so also do all things in heaven, even though we are unable to
trace out accurately the respective natures and powers of each, therefore,
reduced to silence about them." [Philo of Alexandria 20BCE-50CE, On
Providence II: 50, 52]
The New Testament issue may also be viewed more properly as being the
product and consequence of increased Hellenisation and subsequent
religious/political sub-ordination to Roman and pagan domination by virtue
of the hymeneal collusion {ie. the leaven} initially between Jewish nobility
and the Idumean King Herod who being ancestrally Palestinian, had no
participation within the Torah covenant of Mt Sinai, the Great and the
Sadducees {White Washers and Men of Mockery} and Pharisees {Flattery
Seekers} who gave credence to a lie-Where on matters of Godhead conveyed by
the Way-HODOS as claim to religious belief and governance {ie. HOMOIOS}, it
was attributed to the Roman Emperors as a status of Divinity within the
Greek / Roman state as religious / political entity.
The usage of the Greek term 'arsenokoite' {ie. men who act against
principles of covenant compared to arsenogenes as men who act against
principles or mores of race} and therefore by imputation, the term 'malakos'
{ie. as pretension to the kingdom of heaven in the greatest degree} are
therefore assigned to the prophecy concerning the Angel Metatron as soul of
the Messiah, as the Lord of Sabaoth, Lord of Hosts, Forces & Authority over
Chaos, Memra, Word, Shekinah, Holy Spirit, by Acts of Divine Providence
within Jewish Kabbalistic thought or Pistis-Sophia within Jewish-Greek
Gnosticism. Being further assigned to the Angel Michael as a name derived
by Themurah ( ) from the term Angel given in [Exodus 23:21; 23] as:
Mem (#40) + Lamed (#30) + Aleph (#1) + Final Kaf (#500) = #571 % 81 [#4]
[#4, #29, #2, #72 - Self-Love/ Holding Oneself Dear]
[#8, #4, #12, #2 - Contrast of Terms/ Self-Culture]
[#64, #1, #4, #24 - Important Distinctions/ Trouble from Indulgence]
[#72, #63, #75, #4 - Using Guidance/ Sourceless such as Gematria]
[#74, #13, #70, #80 - Primitivist Independence/ Remaining in Isolation/ #4,
#78]
[#8, #4, #12, #2 - Contrast of Terms/ Self-Culture/ #78, #4]
And this appears to be consequently interconnected to the theological notion
of the Angel Metatron to which the anagrammation of [Exodus 14:19-21] is
also associated: "Of the palace of Metatron, the name comes from the
Nepheshoth, the most righteous of the universe. Of the profound secret,
Metatron is all the actions and power of Shaddai, of all the one power."
[Raziel p 196] Within Jewish mysticism, the Arch-Angel Metatron is the
demiurge who was important only because his name is mathematically
equivalent of Shaddai, one of God's name and is regarded as companion to the
Angel Sandolfon {co-brother} who, being 'taller than his comrades by a
distance of 500 years' has a significance as the left-handed cherubim of the
ark of the covenant, in having an intimate attendance upon God himself.
Curiously the Angel / Daemon known as Mitzrael (Mizreal) 40, 90, 200 = #330
which is derived from the annagramation of Torah text of [Exodus 14:19-21]
has historically been understood by this ancient literature, 'The Book of
Raziel' as relating to the image {Heb: KO INR) of (Heb: ADNI} with the three
signs of the name. Speak (Heb. YHWH ADNI) is the name of the host. According
to Biblical records, this was assigned to Jesus {He is saved/A savior; a
deliverer} of Nazareth {one chosen or set apart; separated; crowned;
sanctified} and within the Aten based Egyptian occultic practice which
pervaded the early 20th Century as HRUMACHIS - 'The Holy Spirit of Truth and
Justice':
"I receive not honor from men. But I know you, that ye have not the love of
God in you. I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another
shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. How can ye believe, which
receive honor one of another, and seek not the honor that cometh from God
only? Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that
accuses you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. For had ye believed Moses, ye
would have believed me: for he wrote of me. But if ye believe not his
writings, how shall ye believe my words?" [John 5:41-47]
As the initials above the Cross deploying notarikon {ie. As the abbreviated
composition of a word from the beginning or end of several words} as a
Kabbalistic technique records his Crime as INR = IESVS NAZARENVS REX
IVDAEORVM.{Jesus Nazareth King of the Jews} [Matthew 27:37; Mark 15:26; John
19:19; Luke 23:38]
It is said that the Torah text [Exodus 23:20-22] also refers to Metatron:
"Behold, I send an angel of mercy before you to guard you in the land, to
bring you into the place which I have prepared. Pay attention before him
and listen to (his) voice, and do not rebel against his words, for my holy
name in invoked upon him, for he will not forgive or pardon your sins, for
my holy name is invoked upon him. But if you listen to the voice of my
Memra and do all that it says, I will hate whoever hates you, and I will
oppress whoever oppresses you." [© 1994 The Order of Saint Benedict Aramaic
Targum of Neofiti 1: Exodus 23:20-22]
And it is upon this theological notion, as claimed Christian belief which is
inevitably barren of soul, having no justification and simply engaging in
pretension as presumption of piety, that the term 'MALAKOS' is referenced,
but elsewhere in [1 Corinthians 6:9], erroneously translated as Homosexual
rather than the present day ecclesiastical authorities as then being the
Sadducees {White Washers and Men of Mockery} and Pharisees {Flattery
Seekers} aligned with King Herod the Great (37-4 (1) BCE) to King Agrippa II
(c. 27-(50-93 CE) as sub-ordination with the Roman Caesars from Tiberius (15
CE) to Vitellius (69 CE) as Roman State Religion:
"What did you go out into the wilderness to look at? A reed-kalamos
shaken-saleuo by the wind-anemos? But what did you go out to see? A man
clothed in soft-MALAKOS {
'No one-and I mean no one-denied most of the major aspects of Judaism for
many centuries after the Sinaitic event. The first record we have of formal
schisms within Judaism is close to the period of the Mishna (such as the
Sadducees), roughly 1000 years later! (See our class on 1:3
<www.torah.org/learning/pirkei-avos/chapter1-3.html>.) Even then, the
doubters denied only the Oral Law-the explanation and elaboration of the
Scripture as handed down orally by Moses. For no one at that time could have
ever gotten away with the claim that the Written Torah was not authentic.
Such a claim would have been regarded as patently absurd; it would have been
laughed off the stage of history. We all knew there was a Torah.' [Courtesy:
© 2004 Rabbi Dovid Rosenfeld Pirkei Avos on Does God Exist? Chapter 3 Mishna
10 (a), Project Genesis <http://www.torah.org>]
} garments-himation? Indeed those who are gorgeously appareled and live in
luxury-truphe are in the kings' courts. But what did you go out to see? A
prophet? Yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet. This is he of whom it
is written: 'Behold, I send my messenger before your face, who will prepare
your way before you.' [Exodus 23:20-22] For I say to you, among those born
of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist; but he who is
least in the kingdom of God is greater than he." [Luke 7:24-28]
I've included his comment below...
- dolf
"Slade Farney" <sfa...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:abe991f.04072...@posting.google.com...
So long ago, you don't believe what you wrote any more? Then what is
the complaint.
The post was from you in a new thread that you started. If you don't
believe his words, you have no business putting his words in your post
-- unless you leave it in the thread so readers can follow the
conversation. This is a public forum.
The Romans fought a war against Jerusalem to suppress a rebellion.
Slade Farney
>
> Not at all, I'm waiting for you to distinguish your claim to religious
> belief
Sorry to hear you are holding your breath. If I had made such a
claim, you could breathe now. But I didn't, so you can't.
> as being something other than racialism derived from Priapism!
^^^^^^^^
Go take an remedial English course while you wait.
Meanwhile, tell us why Judaism says that slavery is godly.
Leviticus 25:44-46
Both thy bondmen, and thy bondmaids, which thou shalt have, shall be
of the heathen that are round about you; of them shall ye buy bondmen
and bondmaids.
Moreover of the children of the strangers that do sojourn among you,
of them shall ye buy, and of their families that are with you, which
they begat in your land: and they shall be your possession.
And ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you,
to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever:
but over your brethren the children of Israel, ye shall not rule one
over another with rigour.
--Slade
Qolon
of God, within Islam also appears insubstantial. Do you have anything else
to provide substantiation by way of proof of your racialisms as ideology:
"The most concise definition of God in Islam is given in the four verses of
Surah Ikhlas which is Chapter 112 of the Qur'an:
"Say: He is Allah, {Nature contains Nature}
The One and Only. {Nature rejoices in its Nature}
"Allah, the Eternal, Absolute. {Nature surmounts Nature}
"He begets not, nor is He begotten. {Nature amended in its Nature}
And there is none like unto Him." [Al-Qur'an 112:1-4] {Act of Nature 'LIKE'
= 'HOMOIOS"}
The word 'Assamad' is difficult to translate. It means 'absolute existence',
which can be attributed only to Allah (swt), all other existence being
temporal or conditional. It also means that Allah (swt) is not dependant on
any person or thing, but all persons and things are dependant on Him." [by
Dr. Zakir Naik, "The Most Concise Definition of God',
<http://www.theunjustmedia.com/>]
- dolf
"Slade Farney" <sfa...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:abe991f.04072...@posting.google.com...
Jack SlopehE@d
wrote:
>"Qolon" <te...@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:<DAhMc.13295$K53...@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
bond.. james bond.
Diana BB
Not-easily-duped wrote:
> "Qolon" <te...@bigpond.com> wrote in message news:<LR7Dc.64877$sj4....@news-server.bigpond.net.au>...
>
>
>>"And he turned to the woman, and said unto Simon {that hears; that obeys},
>>Seest thou this woman? I entered into thine house, thou gavest me no water
>>for my feet: but she hath washed my feet with tears, and wiped them with the
>>hairs of her head. THOU GAVEST ME NO KISS: BUT THIS WOMAN SINCE THE TIME I
>>CAME IN HATH NOT CEASED TO KISS MY FEET. My head with oil thou didst not
>>anoint: but this woman hath anointed my feet with ointment. Wherefore I say
>>unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but
>>to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little. And he said unto her,
>>Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say
>>within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the
>>woman-GUNE, Thy faith-PISTIS hath saved-SOZO thee; go-POREUOMAI in
>>peace-EIRENE {prosperity: one, peace, quietness, rest, + set at one again}."
>>[Luke 7:44-50]
>
>
> Paul taught the mystery of Christ/Messiah as a revelation given to him
> by God himself.
> So according to his Christology Jesus is the Christ/Messiah promised
> by God and Christ is the Unique God. WE ARE LIVING UNDER PAUL and following
> his teaching on Christ, that is more important than your fantasy
Could this be true?
A Christian who admits to following Paul and what Paul thinks Jesus meant?
What about following what Jesus himself said?
It's a bit scary at first. You start to realize that your almost whole
religion has been based on what Paul said. Then when you start to
question Paul you begin to understand that Paul was not all he said he was.
Then you suddenly come to the knowledge that really sets you free.
Christianity IS Pauls religion and not Jesus based at all.
Take it slow. Most Christians find it difficult to think alone(that is
without theologians telling you what the bible says) at first. But then
it come easily and the truth sets you free.
Pray to God( not Christianity's three headed multiple personality god).
He will show you.
Roy Mock
"Diana BB" <us...@example.net> wrote in message
news:42fde642$1...@news.iprimus.com.au...
Who is worshipped in Rev 7:9-12?
Who is on the throne that is served in Rev 22:1-3?
Who is coming in Rev 1:7-8?
Mark T
> Who is worshipped in Rev 7:9-12?
> Who is on the throne that is served in Rev 22:1-3?
> Who is coming in Rev 1:7-8?
All written 90 - 95 CE many years after the historical Pre-Easter Jesus of
Nazareth was living on earth.
Jesus is God's Messiah / Christ. Messiah / Christ means God's anointed one
not the One God YHWH himself.
Please explain the following ....................
Numbers 23:19 "God is not a MAN"
Jn.14:28 "My FATHER (GOD) is GREATER than I (JESUS)."
1 Cor.11:3 "The HEAD of CHRIST is GOD."
1 Tim.2:5 "For there is ONE GOD, and ONE MEDIATOR between GOD and men, THE
MAN CHRIST JESUS."
Col.3:1 "CHRIST sitteth on the right hand of GOD."
Jn. 8:40 "But now ye seek to kill ME (JESUS), a MAN that hath told you the
truth, which I (JESUS) have heard of GOD."
Acts 17:31 "Because he (GOD) hath appointed a day, in the which he (GOD)
will judge the world in righteousness by that MAN (Jesus) whom he (GOD) hath
ordained; whereof he (GOD) hath given assurance unto all men, in that he
(GOD) hath raised him (JESUS) from the dead."
Romans 5:19 "For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many
were made sinners, so also through the obedience of the one MAN (JESUS) the
many will be made righteous."
John 20:17 "I ascend to my (JESUS') Father (GOD) and your Father, and my
(JESUS') GOD and your GOD"
1 Cor. 15:28 "When he (GOD) has done this, then the Son (JESUS) himself
will be made subject to him (GOD) who put everything under him, so that GOD
may be all in all."
John 17:3 "that they might know you (GOD), the ONLY TRUE GOD, and JESUS
CHRIST whom you (GOD) have sent"
John 10:36 "Do you say of him (JESUS) whom the Father (GOD) SANCTIFIED and
sent into the world, 'You are blaspheming' because I said 'I am the SON of
GOD'"? (Why does Jesus need sanctifying if he is God already?)
Philippians 2:6 "He (JESUS) did not consider EQUALITY with GOD something
to be grasped."
Luke 18:19 "Why do you call me (JESUS) good? No one is good except GOD
alone."
1 Corinthians 3:23 "and you belong to CHRIST; and CHRIST belongs to GOD"
Ephesians 4:5 - 6 says there is "one LORD (JESUS), one faith, one baptism,
one GOD AND FATHER of all (LORD GOD)."
Luke 12:10: "And everyone who speaks a word against the SON OF MAN (JESUS)
will be forgiven, but anyone who blasphemes against the HOLY
SPIRIT (GOD) will not be forgiven."
John 7:16: "My (JESUS) teaching is not my (JESUS) own. It comes from HIM
(GOD) who sent ME (JESUS)."
John 14:1 "Trust in GOD; trust also in ME (JESUS)."
Acts 7:56 "the SON OF MAN (JESUS) standing at the right hand of GOD"
Rom. 16:27: "To the ONLY WISE GOD be glory forever through JESUS CHRIST
1 Corinthians 8:6 "yet for us there is but ONE GOD, the FATHER...and there
is but one LORD, JESUS CHRIST."
Acts 2:36 "GOD has made this JESUS ... both LORD (BOSS NOT GOD) and
CHRIST."
John 5:44 (JESUS speaking to GOD) "the ONLY GOD (FATHER)"
Mark T
> Take it slow. Most Christians find it difficult to think alone(that is
> without theologians telling you what the bible says) at first. But then it
> come easily and the truth sets you free.
Many Christians caught up in the current Fundamentlist Dark Age find it
difficult to think anything at all!
"Fit Bodies, Fat Minds: Why Evangelicals don't think and what to do about
it" ( Baker Books; Grand Rapids:1994) - Os Guiness
p. 9 -11
...a leading problem in American evangelicalism - anti-intellectualism.
Anti-intellectualism is a disposition to discount the importance of truth
and the life of the mind. ...evangelicals have toned up their bodies and
dumbed down their minds. The result! Many suffer from a modern form of
what the ancient stoics called "mental hedonism" - having fit bodies but fat
minds. ...At root, evangelical anti-intellectualism is both a scandal and a
sin. It is a scandal in the sense of being an offense and a stumbling block
that needlessly hinders seriopus people from considering the Christian faith
and coming to Christ. it is a sin because it is a refusal, contrary to the
first of Jesus' two great commandments, to love the Lord our God with all
our minds.
p. 12
Bertrand Russell mocked, "Most Christians would rather die than think - in
fact they do!"
p. 16
Those more educated now tend to be sighnificantly less religious, those more
religious tend to be significantly less educated.
p. 30
The false antagonisms of that sort of either / or thinking have become a
standard feature of evangelicalism ... In terms of a Christin mind, we
evangelicals characteristically pit "heart" versus "head" and opt for the
heart as the more spiritual choice.
p. 31
... "heart" in the Bible is more a matter of understanding than sentiment -
so "heart" versus "head' is a false choice.
p. 32
John Wesley , the founder of Methodism, had said, "It is a fundamental
principal with us that to renounce reason is to renounce religion, that
religion and reason go hand in hand, that irrational religion is false
religion."
p. 143
A fourth misconception concerns the idea tht thinking Christianly is a form
of uniformity - in other words, that if we all think Christianly we will all
think the same way. Whe this happens, the goal of thinking Christinly
collapses into a frantic search for the one particular correct way of
thinking or acting. The result is he fallacy of "particularism", the
uniformity of a particular "Christianly Correct" way of thinking.
...[particularism] denies two requirements of thinking Christianly that
oppose all uniformity: the importance of diversity and the fact of human
fallibility.
p. 143 - 144
For another thing, applying the idea of uniformity is disastrous because it
leads inevitably to legalsim and judgementalism. There is only a short and
easy step from "This is the Christian way" to "There is only one Christian
way" to "Anything different from this Christian way is not Christian" to
"All those who differ fom my way are not Christians".
p. 151
One of the greatest sadnesses of a thinking evangelical is knowing the
thousands who have left, and are still leaving, evangelicalism because
evangelicals do not think.
#############################################################
Roy Mock
"Mark T" <www...@tdoyoumean.2022> wrote in message
news:42fe...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
Yes, it's certainly shows His humanity. And it is His humanity that He
empathises with our weaknesses (Hebrews 4:15, cf 1 Pet:2:22).
But if we observe how His contemporaries understood and reacted to Him, it's
possible to see another side. So, for example -
When He claimed to be the I Am (John 8:58-59), or making Himself God (John
10:23), His hearers clearly understood He was saying and gave the
explanation "We have a law, and according to that law he ought to die
because he has made himself the Son of God "(John 19:7).
John elsewhere provides an interesting Semitic parallel with a twist -
"Whoever believes in the Son of God has the testimony in himself."
(1 John 5:10).
"Whoever does not believe God has made him a liar, because he has not
believed in the testimony that God has borne concerning his Son."
(1 John 5:10).
I see here, the clearest association of "Son of God" with God Himself.
And as Son of God, He called "God his own Father, making himself equal with
God" (John 5:18), which took a bit of an effort for Thomas to concede (John
20:28).
There are many instances where Jesus is worshiped, like the blind man in
John 9:38.
It's interesting to note that while God is the "Lord of lords" (Deut 10:17),
and the Lamb is likewise (Rev 17:14, 19:16). For, right at the beginning of
Luke's gospel, we are introduced to Christ as to be "the Lord" (Luke 2:11),
when at the time the LORD usually refers to God Himself.
Cheers.
Random Packet
I've seen this DVD,
> Who is worshipped in Rev 7:9-12?
Lisa, bitch-queen of the sex temple.
>
> Who is on the throne that is served in Rev 22:1-3?
Again, Lisa, and she's being served by a well-endowed younger man.
>
> Who is coming in Rev 1:7-8?
Again, Lisa, during some red hot girl-on-girl action.
--
Random Packet
Source unknown, destination uncertain.
Qolon
fanciful claimed, "yes muslims are still living under Moses"
"Not-easily-duped"
<Codebrea...@bigsecret.com>
The Mosaic covenant was made with the genealogical ancestral lineage of
Isaac and Jacob. However some Muslims claim an alternate ancestral
dependency with Ishmael.
On 13 August 2005, DiannaBB made a further comment, which like her theology
has no connection to the Everlasting Covenant made by God with the Children
of Israel at Sinai and its continuation within the Jewish/Christian Apostle
Paul's Ministry.
It is evident that with false statements like:
"yes muslims are still living under Moses" "Not-easily-duped"
"Christianity IS Pauls religion and not Jesus based at all." [DiannaBB]
That both individuals are engaged in replacement theology, an invented
history of ascetic human and non-Judaeo-Christian mystery tradition--they
appear to think it okay to steal the autonomous, sovereign and intellectual
religious property of others.
- dolf
- <http://home.iprimus.com.au/telos/>