Born again.

[Michael Christ]

The born again man has already been resurrected.




Michael Christ

[Michael Christ]

Michael Christ wrote:
> The born again man has already been resurrected.

Pete the sleazy bastard, the boy who doesn't need to quote, wrote:
> Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
> (Joh 3:7 KJV)

Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound
thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so
is every one that is born of the Spirit.

And that is why man-made christianity is lost in theology, because
they/you seek to control the wind with your mind. The voice of God is
all 'Greek and Hebrew' to you, but He is not a language, He is a
Person.




Michael Christ

[GSI]

On 2013-05-10 22:03:26 +0000, Michael Christ said:

> The born again man has already been resurrected.
>
> Michael Christ

…In his/her delusional so-called "Christian" fantasy life.

[Barry OGrady]

On Fri, 10 May 2013 15:03:26 -0700 (PDT), Michael Christ
<jesusisth...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>The born again man has already been resurrected.

The first birth gives intelligence and wisdom.
The second birth takes those away.

>Michael Christ

===========
"I see only with deep regret that God punishes so many of His children
for their numerous stupidities, for which only He Himself can be held
responsible; in my opinion, only His nonexistence could excuse Him."
-Albert Einstein

[Michael Christ]

On May 11, 10:22 am, Pete <n...@nya.biz> wrote:
> On Fri, 10 May 2013 18:41:59 -0700 (PDT), Michael Christ

>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Michael Christ wrote:
> >> The born again man has already been resurrected.

Pete the sleazy bastard, the boy who doesn't need to quote, wrote:
> >> Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
> >> (Joh 3:7 KJV)

Michael Christ wrote:
> > Joh 3:7  Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
> > Joh 3:8  The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound
> > thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so
> > is every one that is born of the Spirit.
>
> > And that is why man-made christianity is lost in theology, because
> > they/you seek to control the wind with your mind.  The voice of God is
> > all 'Greek and Hebrew' to you, but He is not a language, He is a
> > Person.

Pete wrote:
> God is most gracious, He speaks to me in English. He speaks clearly. He
> speaks quietly. As I...
> Study to shew thyself approved unto God,

Well keep studying until you are.

Pete wrote:
> a workman that needeth not to be
> ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. (2Ti 2:15 KJV)

Then you will be able to rightly divide the word of truth, instead of
trying in vain to try and control God in your mind and masturbate over
yourself with your theology.

Until then you are just guessing and paraphrasing according to your
fallen nature. When you are approved, we might get to see a few
honest genuine contextual 'quotes' that parallel your opinions, sleazy
bastard.

Also you might not feel the need to remove your posts after a week,
sticky.




Michael Christ

[Ike]

On 5/10/2013 6:03 PM, Michael Christ wrote:
> The born again man has already been resurrected.

Idiotic nonsense.

The resurrection pertinent to this age comes in the End of the Age, at
the Seventh Trump, and not before.

Yeesh, you're getting desperate with your lies.

Ike

[Ike]

On 5/10/2013 7:34 PM, Pete wrote:
> On Fri, 10 May 2013 15:03:26 -0700 (PDT), Michael Christ
> <jesusisth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>

> Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
> (Joh 3:7 KJV)
>

> Ye as in you all.

You should try reading the whole passage; then you might know what Jesus
was talking about.

Ike

[Ike]

On 5/10/2013 9:41 PM, Michael Christ wrote:
> Michael Christ wrote:
>> The born again man has already been resurrected.
>
> Pete the sleazy bastard, the boy who doesn't need to quote, wrote:
>> Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
>> (Joh 3:7 KJV)
>
> Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
> Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound
> thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so
> is every one that is born of the Spirit.
>

> And that is why man-made christianity is lost in theology...

Yours is the "man-made Christianity," moron.

Perhaps if you read the WHOLE passage, you would know what Jesus was
talking about in His triune statement about being "born."

Ike

[Ike]

On 5/10/2013 10:22 PM, Pete wrote:

> God is most gracious, He speaks to me in English. He speaks clearly. He
> speaks quietly.

You've never heard Him, nor He you, antichurch antitrinitarian
antichristian cultist.

Ike

[Ike]

On 5/10/2013 10:33 PM, Barry OGrady wrote:
> On Fri, 10 May 2013 15:03:26 -0700 (PDT), Michael Christ
> <jesusisth...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The born again man has already been resurrected.
>
> The first birth gives intelligence and wisdom.
> The second birth takes those away.

Only in the case of boobs like you.

Ike

[Michael Christ]

As usual you confuse the spirit man, the born again man, with the
natural man, the man who loves this world...his sinful state.

The born again man has already been resurrected.

Its already happened. There will be no marrying or giving in marriage
in heaven...only the consummation of the marriage that has already
taken place.

Not that it gets through with you because you are such a stubborn
moron...

2Co_5:17 (KJV) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new
creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become
new.

Its already happened. I know, it is not just theology with me. I
experienced it, even though you in your glorious fallen state can't
see it.





Michael Christ

[Rod]

On 5/13/2013 7:40 AM, Michael Christ wrote:
> On May 13, 6:36 pm, Ike <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 5/10/2013 6:03 PM, Michael Christ wrote:
>>
>>> The born again man has already been resurrected.
>>
>> Idiotic nonsense.
>>
>> The resurrection pertinent to this age comes in the End of the Age, at
>> the Seventh Trump, and not before.
>>
>> Yeesh, you're getting desperate with your lies.
>>
>> Ike
>
> As usual you confuse the spirit man, the born again man, with the
> natural man, the man who loves this world...his sinful state.
>
> The born again man has already been resurrected.

There are some verses in 1 John and John that support this.

[Rod]

On 5/13/2013 7:40 AM, Michael Christ wrote:

> On May 13, 6:36 pm, Ike <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 5/10/2013 6:03 PM, Michael Christ wrote:
>>
>>> The born again man has already been resurrected.
>>
>> Idiotic nonsense.
>>
>> The resurrection pertinent to this age comes in the End of the Age, at
>> the Seventh Trump, and not before.
>>
>> Yeesh, you're getting desperate with your lies.
>>
>> Ike
>
> As usual you confuse the spirit man, the born again man, with the
> natural man, the man who loves this world...his sinful state.
>
> The born again man has already been resurrected.

John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, *and now
is*, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that
hear shall live.

John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all
that are in the graves shall hear his voice,


John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the
resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the
resurrection of damnation.

[Ike]

On 5/13/2013 9:12 PM, Rod wrote:
> On 5/13/2013 7:40 AM, Michael Christ wrote:
>> On May 13, 6:36 pm, Ike <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 5/10/2013 6:03 PM, Michael Christ wrote:
>>>
>>>> The born again man has already been resurrected.
>>>
>>> Idiotic nonsense.
>>>
>>> The resurrection pertinent to this age comes in the End of the Age, at
>>> the Seventh Trump, and not before.
>>>
>>> Yeesh, you're getting desperate with your lies.
>>>
>>> Ike
>>
>> As usual you confuse the spirit man, the born again man, with the
>> natural man, the man who loves this world...his sinful state.
>>
>> The born again man has already been resurrected.
>
>
> John 5:25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, *and now
> is*, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that
> hear shall live.
>
> John 5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all
> that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
>
>
> John 5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the
> resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the
> resurrection of damnation.

LOL

Way to screw up. This is about THREE groups of people at THREE different
resurrections, which Jesus parsed using His "is now/is coming"
dichotomy, and the limited ("those that hear") versus unlimited ("all
will hear") dichotomy.

First resurrection = the one documented in Matthew, and accidentally by
Paul. This was the "now" resurrection (from when Jesus said this).

Second resurrection = the one at the end of this age. This will be the
first "is coming" resurrection, limited to "those who hear."

Third resurrection = the one at the end of all things. This will be the
second "is coming" resurrection, unlimited, as Jesus switched to "ALL
will hear."

It is NOT about anyone being "resurrected now," save for Jesus and His
entourage who were resurrected at the FIRST (of three) resurrections.

So this "born again man is already resurrected" nonsense is just some
more of Michael Antichrist's ignorant prattle (at least, the way he's
implying, not in terms of three-dimensional time).

<chuckle>

Ike

[Michael Christ]

He has been resurrected from the dead.

But since you have not been born again you share your theology
(perspective) from the dead, Ike.

Heaven is a celebration, Ike, not a time for working on sinners.

Now is the time for sinners.




Michael Christ

[Ike]

On 5/13/2013 9:10 PM, Rod wrote:
> On 5/13/2013 7:40 AM, Michael Christ wrote:
>> On May 13, 6:36 pm, Ike <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> On 5/10/2013 6:03 PM, Michael Christ wrote:
>>>
>>>> The born again man has already been resurrected.
>>>
>>> Idiotic nonsense.
>>>
>>> The resurrection pertinent to this age comes in the End of the Age, at
>>> the Seventh Trump, and not before.
>>>
>>> Yeesh, you're getting desperate with your lies.
>>>
>>> Ike
>>
>> As usual you confuse the spirit man, the born again man, with the
>> natural man, the man who loves this world...his sinful state.
>>
>> The born again man has already been resurrected.
>
> There are some verses in 1 John and John that support this.

No, there isn't.

>> Its already happened. There will be no marrying or giving in marriage
>> in heaven...only the consummation of the marriage that has already
>> taken place.
>>
>> Not that it gets through with you because you are such a stubborn
>> moron...
>>
>> 2Co_5:17 (KJV) Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new
>> creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become
>> new.
>>
>> Its already happened. I know, it is not just theology with me. I
>> experienced it, even though you in your glorious fallen state can't
>> see it.

Ike

[Barry OGrady]

The first birth given wisdom and intelligence.

The second birth takes those away.

===========
I have come up with a way God could prove himself to everybody
in a way that would leave no doubt.
God is said to be everywhere at once so God could knock on every
door in the world at the same time. How could I deny God then?

[Ike]

On 5/13/2013 8:40 AM, Michael Christ wrote:
> On May 13, 6:36 pm, Ike <xhermaneicklebe...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 5/10/2013 6:03 PM, Michael Christ wrote:
>>
>>> The born again man has already been resurrected.
>>
>> Idiotic nonsense.
>>
>> The resurrection pertinent to this age comes in the End of the Age, at
>> the Seventh Trump, and not before.
>>
>> Yeesh, you're getting desperate with your lies.
>>
>> Ike
>

> As usual you confuse the spirit man...

What a moron.

THERE WERE, ARE, AND WILL BE THREE LITERAL RESURRECTIONS.

The FIRST was concurrent with Jesus' resurrection.

The SECOND comes at the end of this age.

The THIRD comes at the end of all things.

...just like Jesus said.

And "epiphany," or "conversion" IS NOT "RESURRECTION," you illiterate
imbecile.

All of your pseudo-mystical hoopla has nothing to do with the Word or
facts, just like the rest of your antichristian bullshit.

Ike

[Ike]

On 5/13/2013 2:52 PM, Pete wrote:

> I have and I do.
>
> He also said,...
> Joh 10:9 I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and
> shall go in and out, and find pasture.

Great.

Now try saying and quoting something RELEVANT TO THE POINT, moron.

Ike

[Ike]

Now try finding that in the Word, blasphemer, 'cause IT SAYS NO SUCH THING.

Ike

[Ike]

On 5/19/2013 12:51 PM, Pete wrote:
> On Sun, 19 May 2013 07:25:44 -0400, Ike <xhermanei...@gmail.com>

> Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee,
> Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
> Joh 3:4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old?
> can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?
> Joh 3:5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be
> born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
> Joh 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born
> of the Spirit is spirit.

> Joh 3:7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
> Joh 3:8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound
> thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is
> every one that is born of the Spirit.

> Joh 3:9 Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
> Joh 3:10 Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel,
> and knowest not these things?
>
> The point is, must be born again.

No, it's not.

In fact, there isn't one point, but three points, in ascensions.

1) One is born.

2) One must be born from above (which is what the term actually means),
which refers to conversion and reception of the Holy Spirit.

3) One is "born again" at the resurrection, and not before.

And THAT'S where the "born again" crowd screwed up in the 19th Century.

Ike

[Rod]

Only because the books were written over 2,000 years ago.

[//"".]

We are born again in baptism and then of the reception of the HS. As Paul
writes in romans this is the means by which we ar tied to Christ unto
eternal life.

[//"".]

>> We are born again in baptism and then of the reception of the HS. As Paul
>> writes in romans this is the means by which we ar tied to Christ unto
>> eternal life.
>

>There is no such statement in the Bible.

Christ spoke of being born again of water and spirit, and the Paul has been
given here before that in baptism we are joined to Christ unto eternal
life.

There is an unbroken 2000 year teaching starting in scripture and at the
time of scripture in other sources as baptisim in this regard. Only in the
past few 150 or so years has someone invented other meaning to it.
Scripture says that those will come to distort and decieve.

[Ike]

The ONLY books were written 2,000 years ago, just as Jesus said they
would be, moron.

Now, where in THAT ONE AND ONLY AUTHENTIC WORD OF GOD does it say "the
born again man is already resurrected."

Answer: IT DOESN'T.

The very notion is patently ridiculous (at least, the way you fools are
implying).

Ike

[Ike]

On 5/19/2013 9:45 PM, Pete wrote:
> On Sun, 19 May 2013 17:59:03 -0400, Ike <xhermanei...@gmail.com>

> the fleshly born much happen as a non-existent person cannot believe.

One more time for the dull and slow-witted.

There are THREE concepts in that conversation.

1) Being born
2) Being "born from above" (which is NOT "resurrected," but being sealed
UNTIL the resurrection).
3) Bring "born again" (which IS the resurrection).

Now, you can throw out all the rhetorical bullshit you want, but 1) NO
ONE is "born again" until their resurrection, and 2) NO ONE is
resurrected until THEY DIE. Until then, they're just "born from above,"
and going through the process of Baptism. (Or not, as the case may be.)

The statement was a load of crap all along.

Ike

[Ike]

On 5/20/2013 8:08 AM, // "". wrote:
> We are born again in baptism...

FALSE.

One is only SEALED at Baptism; one is not "born again" until the
resurrection.

This false reference to being a "born again Christian" started in the
19th Century, along with a slew of other cult nonsense.

Prior to that, the historical churches NEVER used such a phrase in that
manner.

So just as Jesus laid out in the conversation in John, there are THREE
levels of interpretation at work here.

1) One is born.
2) One can be "born from above."
3) A few will be "born again" at the resurrection.

Ike

[Ike]

On 5/20/2013 11:49 AM, Pete wrote:

> There is no such statement in the Bible.

Just as your statement isn't in there either.

Ike

[Ike]

On 5/20/2013 1:33 PM, // "". wrote:
>>> We are born again in baptism and then of the reception of the HS. As Paul
>>> writes in romans this is the means by which we ar tied to Christ unto
>>> eternal life.
>>
>> There is no such statement in the Bible.
>
> Christ spoke of being born again of water and spirit,

You know, I just finished writing a section of a revision of my last
book about this very subject, and the thing that everyone keeps missing
is that Jesus was dealing with THREE levels of interpretation in that
conversation.

1) Born.
2) Born from above (i.e. of "spirit and water," with the third, "the
fire," yet to come).
3) Born again.

> and the Paul has been
> given here before that in baptism we are joined to Christ unto eternal
> life.

IF one continues in the faith, as is reiterated throughout the New
Testament. Hence, following "procedures" is no guarantee of salvation,
which is another false notion that arose in the 19th Century thanks to
the "Plymouth Brethren" Dispensationalist cult.

> There is an unbroken 2000 year teaching starting in scripture and at the
> time of scripture in other sources as baptisim in this regard. Only in the
> past few 150 or so years has someone invented other meaning to it.
> Scripture says that those will come to distort and decieve.

That's quite backwards: The "Born Again Christian" nonsense didn't start
until the 19th Century; before that, the historical churches never used
that phrase in that way.

Ike

[Ike]

On 5/22/2013 11:36 PM, Pete wrote:

> That there is no such statement in the Bible? Great call Brainiac.

Yeah, it was, since that WASN'T WHAT JESUS SAID, OR WHAT HE WAS TALKING
ABOUT, MORON.

Now, try reading it again, and you'll see that Jesus was talking about
THE RESURRECTION.

Idiot.

Ike

[Ike]

On 5/22/2013 11:42 PM, Pete wrote:
> On Tue, 21 May 2013 08:23:11 -0400, Ike <xhermanei...@gmail.com>

> Born, new birth, from above. (by God)

Notice that the asshole didn't address a single fact presented.

> So I know who I am though Christ Jesus, right at this moment.

The asshole totally ignores what Christ Jesus said, then says "so I know
who I am."

Go figure--Satan blasphemes Christ with one hand, while claiming Him
with the other.

Ike

[.//"".]

> We are born again in baptism and then of the reception of the HS. As
Paul
> writes in romans this is the means by which we ar tied to Christ unto
> eternal life.

"There is no such statement in the Bible."

Sure is, and it has been given you previously, recall the Romans?

[duke]

The resurrection is that which we hope to follow Jesus by dying to death of sin
with him. And THAT is in scripture.

Romans 6:3-4 (New International Version)
3 Or don’t you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were
baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism
into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the
glory of the Father, we too may live a new life.


>Idiot.
>
>Ike

The dukester, American - American

********************************************
Repeal Obama
You simply can't fix stupid.
********************************************

[//"".]

>>> We are born again in baptism and then of the reception of the HS. As
>> Paul
>>> writes in romans this is the means by which we ar tied to Christ unto
>>> eternal life.
>>
>> "There is no such statement in the Bible."
>>

>> Sure is, and it has been given you previously, recall the Romans?
>

>If there had been you would have quoted it, you didn't. case closed

In past the full parts of Romans have been presented you and discussed. In
it Paul declares that in baptism we are joined to Christ unto eternal life.
You know it well, please don't play dumb now.

Some new 150 year old doctrine saying born again means something else will
not serve.

[Ike]

On 5/23/2013 6:31 PM, Pete wrote:

> If there had been you would have quoted it, you didn't. case closed

Precisely.

Ike

[Ike]

On 5/23/2013 7:19 PM, // "". wrote:
>>>> We are born again in baptism and then of the reception of the HS. As
>>> Paul
>>>> writes in romans this is the means by which we ar tied to Christ unto
>>>> eternal life.
>>>
>>> "There is no such statement in the Bible."
>>>
>>> Sure is, and it has been given you previously, recall the Romans?
>>
>> If there had been you would have quoted it, you didn't. case closed
>
> In past the full parts of Romans have been presented you and discussed. In
> it Paul declares that in baptism we are joined to Christ unto eternal life.

That was written from the perfect indicative perspective.

And it says nothing about "being born again" in the flesh, which is what
Jesus was talking about, i.e. the resurrection.

> You know it well, please don't play dumb now.

Still no quote.

Ala you're the one "playing dumb."

> Some new 150 year old doctrine saying born again means something else will
> not serve.

The "new" doctrine was the one that the so-called "evangelicals"
concocted in the 19th Century, along with this phrase "born again
Christian," which none of the historical churches used the way these
lunatics use it.

Ike

[Up from the Abyss]

"Ike" wrote:

> // "". wrote:
> >
> > In past the full parts of Romans have been presented you
> > and discussed. In it Paul declares that in baptism we are
> > joined to Christ unto eternal life.
>
> That was written from the perfect indicative perspective.
>
> And it says nothing about "being born again" in the flesh,
> which is what Jesus was talking about, i.e. the resurrection.

Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I

say unto thee, Except one be born anew, he cannot see the
kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a
man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time
into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered,
Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water
and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God!

6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is

born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee,
Ye must be born anew.

Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a
new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of
their flesh, and will give them a heart of flesh; 20 that they
may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and
do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their
God.

Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit
will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out
of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I
will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my
statutes, and ye shall keep mine ordinances, and do them.

<snip>

[GSI]

On 2013-06-11 02:28:25 +0000, Up from the Abyss said:

>> And it says nothing about "being born again" in the flesh,
>> which is what Jesus was talking about, i.e. the resurrection.
>
> Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I
> say unto thee, Except one be born anew, he cannot see the
> kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a
> man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time
> into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered,
> Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water
> and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God!
> 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is
> born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee,
> Ye must be born anew.

It never ceases to amaze me that no one seems to be able
to understand the above.
Jesus is saying that to have the experience that all religion
is about, you have to renew yourself, starting with a symbolic
washing of the body. Christianity was about spiritual develop-
ment through diet, meditation, and study. Many of those Jesus
taught were the sick. Christianity was first and foremost about
renewing the body. The Holy Spirit will not enter a sick body.
To "enter the Kingdom of Heaven" means to have THE
religious experience, known as enlightenment in eastern
religion. To receive the Holy Spirit, the body must be clean
and empty.

[Barry OGrady]

On Mon, 10 Jun 2013 23:23:16 -0700, GSI <g...@itchynet.com> wrote:

>On 2013-06-11 02:28:25 +0000, Up from the Abyss said:
>
>>> And it says nothing about "being born again" in the flesh,
>>> which is what Jesus was talking about, i.e. the resurrection.
>>
>> Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I
>> say unto thee, Except one be born anew, he cannot see the
>> kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a
>> man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time
>> into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered,
>> Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water
>> and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God!
>> 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is
>> born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee,
>> Ye must be born anew.
>
>It never ceases to amaze me that no one seems to be able
>to understand the above.

You certainly don't.

The first birth gives intelligence and wisdom.
The second birth takes those away.

==============

With respect to the theological view of the question;
this is always painful to me.— I am bewildered.
I had no intention to write atheistically.
But I own that I cannot see, as plainly as others do,
& as I shd wish to do, evidence of design & beneficence
on all sides of us. There seems to me too much misery in
the world. I cannot persuade myself that a beneficent
& omnipotent God would have designedly created the Ichneumonidæ
with the express intention of their feeding within the living
bodies of caterpillars, or that a cat should play with mice.
Darwin to Asa Gray, 22 May 1860

[duke]

On Mon, 10 Jun 2013 23:23:16 -0700, GSI <g...@itchynet.com> wrote:

>On 2013-06-11 02:28:25 +0000, Up from the Abyss said:
>
>>> And it says nothing about "being born again" in the flesh,
>>> which is what Jesus was talking about, i.e. the resurrection.
>>
>> Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I
>> say unto thee, Except one be born anew, he cannot see the
>> kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a
>> man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time
>> into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered,
>> Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water
>> and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God!
>> 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is
>> born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee,
>> Ye must be born anew.
>
>It never ceases to amaze me that no one seems to be able
>to understand the above.

It's very simple. Jesus is saying you must be cleansed of original sin in order
to stand before God. Scripture says only the pure will stand before him. You
are born in sin and unless you have it removed in baptism, you are thus removed
from entrance to heaven.

It's all in the bible.

>Jesus is saying that to have the experience that all religion
>is about, you have to renew yourself, starting with a symbolic
>washing of the body.

Actually, scripture says that baptism only removes the sins from under the first
covenant. Without baptism, you are never cleansed.

> Christianity was about spiritual develop-
>ment through diet, meditation, and study. Many of those Jesus
>taught were the sick. Christianity was first and foremost about
>renewing the body. The Holy Spirit will not enter a sick body.
>To "enter the Kingdom of Heaven" means to have THE
>religious experience, known as enlightenment in eastern
>religion. To receive the Holy Spirit, the body must be clean
>and empty.

And including standing before God.

>> Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a
>> new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of
>> their flesh, and will give them a heart of flesh; 20 that they
>> may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and
>> do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their
>> God.
>>
>> Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit
>> will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out
>> of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I
>> will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my
>> statutes, and ye shall keep mine ordinances, and do them.
>

I thought you were a Christian.

2 Corinthians 3:15-16 (New International Version)
15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But
whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.

Welcome to Christian baptism.

[Ike]

(Still waiting for you to quote such a thing.)

Ike

[Ike]

Note "baptized into HIS DEATH," moron, said in reference to the THIRD
baptism, i.e. the baptism of "fire" (or "blood," depending on whose
parlance you're using).

Ike

[Ike]

On 6/10/2013 10:28 PM, Up from the Abyss wrote:
> "Ike" wrote:
>> // "". wrote:
>>>
>>> In past the full parts of Romans have been presented you
>>> and discussed. In it Paul declares that in baptism we are
>>> joined to Christ unto eternal life.
>>
>> That was written from the perfect indicative perspective.
>>
>> And it says nothing about "being born again" in the flesh,
>> which is what Jesus was talking about, i.e. the resurrection.
>
> Joh 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I
> say unto thee, Except one be born anew, he cannot see the
> kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a
> man be born when he is old? can he enter a second time
> into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered,
> Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except one be born of water
> and the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God!
> 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is
> born of the Spirit is spirit. 7 Marvel not that I said unto thee,
> Ye must be born anew.

Way to go, moron. You just cited the very passage in question, which has
THREE layers of meaning, just like I said.

First layer: physical birth.
Second layer: intellectual birth, i.e. epiphany.
Third layer: spiritual birth, i.e. THE RESURRECTION.

Of course, if you had finished quoting the passage instead of attempting
to take it OUT OF CONTEXT--as usual--you might have known what you were
talking about for a change.

The REST of the story...

7 Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.

8 The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound
thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so
is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Do YOU come and go like the wind? Does anyone IN THE FLESH?

Answer: NO.

That's because Jesus WAS NOT REFERRING TO THIS DEAD FLESH, or this
PRESENT EXISTENCE, BUT THE POST RESURRECTION SPIRITUAL BODY.

> Eze 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a
> new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of
> their flesh, and will give them a heart of flesh; 20 that they
> may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and
> do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their
> God.

That's an end-of the-age prophecy, and has nothing to do with the
present (except in the deficient).

> Eze 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit
> will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out
> of your flesh, and I will give you a heart of flesh. 27 And I
> will put my Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my
> statutes, and ye shall keep mine ordinances, and do them.

Another end-of-the-age prophecy that has nothing to do with the present
(except in the deficient).

Ike