gunzel?
Bill Hough
Derick Wuen <cul...@webone.com.au> wrote in message
news:372e1...@iridium.webone.com.au...
> Newbie to group seeks info on etymology and usage of term gunzel.
It's Australian for "foamer".
Derick Wuen
So far from this ng it seems to me that ....
(1) Its a derogatory term used mainly by people from Vic and SA;
(2) Perversly, the term is used proudly by one or two.
Questions....
(1) Is it a rude word? Can I use it in polite company? Will people north of
Albury know or care?
(2) What specific pattern of behaviour can be classified as gunzel
behaviour? (Gosh I hope its not "if you have to ask about gunzels then you
are one"!)
(3) Is one act of gunzelality sufficient to have someone classified for life
or is there something which can be done to earn redemption? (If the rule is
once a gunzel always a gunzel, then that explains why some gunzels are
making a virtue out of necessity by being proud of gunzeldom.) Is there an
appeal court?
(4) Word looks as if it comes from middle Europe. Old German folk tale,
Hansel and Gunzel? Like to hear that.
(5) Word is used in this ng as both noun and adjective. What is verb form?
How is the noun declined? How is the verb conjugated?
Perhaps notagunzel and the author of gunzelgram can help.
Hopefully ......
notsureifimagunzel
John Cleverdon
> Newbie to group seeks info on etymology and usage of term gunzel.
>
> So far from this ng it seems to me that ....
>
> <snip>
>
> (4) Word looks as if it comes from middle Europe. Old German folk tale,
> Hansel and Gunzel? Like to hear that.
>
> <snip>
I have only ever read one definition of the word, some years ago now.
IIRC, only men can be gunzels (hint, hint...), and it involves a certain type of
man that I (and I assume others on this ng as well) am definitely *not*.
John
--
John Cleverdon, B.App.Sc. (Cartography), AMMSIA
Amateur astronomer & Railway enthusiast | Essendon - 1999 AFL premiers
Dromana, Victoria, Australia | Phone: 03 5987 1535 (H)
E-mail: jo...@cdi.com.au
The Locomotive Page: http://www.railpage.org.au/loco
Astronomical Soc. of Frankston: http://www.peninsula.starway.net.au/~aggro
David Bromage
> Derick Wuen <cul...@webone.com.au> wrote in message
> news:372e1...@iridium.webone.com.au...
> It's Australian for "foamer".
It doesn't quite have the same negative connotations as foamer. Not all
railfans are gunzels, and not all gunzels are foamers. There are a small
number of nuts who give gunzels a bad name.
I suppose it depends on the context and tone of voice. Just like calling
somebosy an "old bastard" can either be abuse or a term of endearment.
Cheers
David
MarkBau1
it meant "kept boy"
I have to agree with GOD, it depends on how its used. If I were to say so and
so is a &*%^ing gunzel that would be bad, but if I said I went "gunzelling"
that would be ok.
Foamer is a similarly used word in the US, it simply means someone who is a
gunzel, like gunzel, the way its used is what matters.
Poms call them "gricers" don't they?
Mark.
Visit my train pic website at:
http://home.earthlink.net/~markbau/
Keith Malcolm
>From: "Derick Wuen" <cul...@webone.com.au>
>Subject: gunzel?
>Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 07:27:09 +1000
>Newbie to group seeks info on etymology and usage of term gunzel.
>So far from this ng it seems to me that ....
>(1) Its a derogatory term used mainly by people from Vic and SA;
>(2) Perversly, the term is used proudly by one or two.
>Questions....
>(1) Is it a rude word? Can I use it in polite company? Will people north of
>Albury know or care?
>(2) What specific pattern of behaviour can be classified as gunzel
>behaviour? (Gosh I hope its not "if you have to ask about gunzels then you
>are one"!)
>(3) Is one act of gunzelality sufficient to have someone classified for life
>or is there something which can be done to earn redemption? (If the rule is
>once a gunzel always a gunzel, then that explains why some gunzels are
>making a virtue out of necessity by being proud of gunzeldom.) Is there an
>appeal court?
>(4) Word looks as if it comes from middle Europe. Old German folk tale,
>Hansel and Gunzel? Like to hear that.
>(5) Word is used in this ng as both noun and adjective. What is verb form?
>How is the noun declined? How is the verb conjugated?
>Perhaps notagunzel and the author of gunzelgram can help.
>Hopefully ......
>notsureifimagunzel
Often used to describe one who spends a large amount of time photographing
trains.
Dave Malcolm
Keith Malcolm
Malcolm) writes:>From: kei...@commslab.gov.au (Keith Malcolm)
>Subject: Re: gunzel?
>Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 07:19:47 GMT
>>Questions....
>>Hopefully ......
>>notsureifimagunzel
>Dave Malcolm
I forgot to mention, it is used in NSW I heard it actually originated in NSW.
Dave Malcolm
John Dennis
>Someone once came up with a definition from an unnamed pommy dictionary where
>it meant "kept boy"
>
>I have to agree with GOD, it depends on how its used. If I were to say so and
>so is a &*%^ing gunzel that would be bad, but if I said I went "gunzelling"
>that would be ok.
>
>Foamer is a similarly used word in the US, it simply means someone who is a
>gunzel, like gunzel, the way its used is what matters.
>
>Poms call them "gricers" don't they?
I am not sure. I thought "gricer" was a term for somebody who was
interested in collecting route mileage, but it may be a generic term
for an "anorak".
Apparently the term "grice" is derived from "griced with our
presence".
JD
==========================================================
John Dennis jde...@acslink.net.au
Melbourne den...@cai.com
Australia Home of the Dutton Bay Tramway
DBT URL: http://www.acslink.net.au/~jdennis/dbt.html
Roderick Smith
derogatory (equivalent of USA foamite/foamer). It is bit by bit gaining
acceptance. The original breakthrough was with tram lovers: a positive
term with them while still negative with train lovers.
I did research the origin. It came from some second-grade USA film, as a
contraction of gunslinger, and should really be spelt gunsel; however the z
spelling has taken root.
--
Regards
Roderick Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor
Derick Wuen <cul...@webone.com.au> wrote in article
<372e1...@iridium.webone.com.au>...
JohnMcCandless
> Poms call them "gricers" don't they?
your camera, just as you were about to take your shot........
David Langley
> In article <372e1...@iridium.webone.com.au> "Derick Wuen" <cul...@webone.com.au> writes:
> >From: "Derick Wuen" <cul...@webone.com.au>
> >Subject: gunzel?
> >Date: Tue, 4 May 1999 07:27:09 +1000
>
> >Newbie to group seeks info on etymology and usage of term gunzel.
Cut.
>
>
> Often used to describe one who spends a large amount of time photographing
> trains.
That makes most of us gunzels.
DEL.
js49...@my-dejanews.com
"Roderick Smith" <rods...@werple.net.au> wrote:
> The term originated in Victoria in the mid 1970s,.......
> (snip)
> ....I did research the origin. It came from some second-grade USA film, as a
> contraction of gunslinger, and should really be spelt gunsel; however the z
> spelling has taken root.
>
The term was in common use by 1968.
With respect, its' origin might be traced to that first-grade US film "The
Maltese Falcon" starring Humphey Bogart when Sam Spade says to (Sydney
Greenstreet) "Who's the gunsel" in reference to SG's neurotic minder.
JS
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Gareth Lumsden
Please check out
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What would you describe this? (A 'nut' or 'freak' comes to mind)
Gareth.
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John Cleverdon
On 4 May 1999 06:47:33 GMT, mark...@aol.comQQQQyuk (MarkBau1) wrote:
>Someone once came up with a definition from an unnamed pommy dictionary where
>it meant "kept boy"
>
>I have to agree with GOD, it depends on how its used. If I were to say so and
>so is a &*%^ing gunzel that would be bad, but if I said I went "gunzelling"
>that would be ok.
>
>Foamer is a similarly used word in the US, it simply means someone who is a
>gunzel, like gunzel, the way its used is what matters.
>
>Poms call them "gricers" don't they?
I am not sure. I thought "gricer" was a term for somebody who was
interested in collecting route mileage, but it may be a generic term
for an "anorak".Apparently the term "grice" is derived from "griced with our
presence".
I thought "gricer" was named after a UK railfan with the surname "Grice" (but then, I may be wrong).
David Bromage
> I am not sure. I thought "gricer" was a term for somebody who was
> interested in collecting route mileage, but it may be a generic term
> for an "anorak".
IIRC, gricing is "train spotting". In Australia, collecting engine numbers
was never really popular (John Cleverdon excepted *grin*) as it still is
in the UK.
Cheers
David
Tony Gatt
> I have only ever read one definition of the word, some years ago now.
> IIRC, only men can be gunzels (hint, hint...), and it involves a certain type of
> man that I (and I assume others on this ng as well) am definitely *not*.
I cannot believe what you are suggesting!
That makes you particularly ignorant when it comes to the hobby I am afraid...
Gunzels Photograph!
And I for 1 am proud to be a Gunzel (rail photographer :)
http://www.railpage.org.au/railpix/
There are a lot of us out there..
--
Thanks, Tony.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Please Note: NEW LOCATION
Railpix - Australian Railway Photography.
------>> http://www.railpage.org.au/railpix
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
David Langley
> Please check out
>
> http://minyos.its.rmit.edu.au/~s9763278/disease.html
>
> What would you describe this? (A 'nut' or 'freak' comes to mind)
Sorry, tried at 2205 but couldn't wait around for the site to reply.
David.
John Cleverdon
> > I have only ever read one definition of the word, some years ago now.
> > IIRC, only men can be gunzels (hint, hint...), and it involves a certain type of
> > man that I (and I assume others on this ng as well) am definitely *not*.
>
> I cannot believe what you are suggesting!
>
> That makes you particularly ignorant when it comes to the hobby I am afraid...
>
Sorry!!!
I am very definitely NOT implying anything towards anyone on this ng (or elsewhere),
it's just that this is the *only* definition I can recall seeing (it was in a
dictionary of Australian slang).
I admit that I am probably a gunzel myself - sometimes hanging around MFT with a large
pair of binoculars, to read loco numbers (1254 seen to date).
dave pierson
writes...
>Tony Gatt wrote:
>> > I have only ever read one definition of the word, some years ago now.
>> > IIRC, only men can be gunzels (hint, hint...), and it involves a certain type of
>> > man that I (and I assume others on this ng as well) am definitely *not*.
fwiw, a scholarly dictionary of US (prison/underworld) slang,
dating ca 1930, defines it as being struggled with above. With no
reference to the gunslinger derivation.
>> I cannot believe what you are suggesting!
>> That makes you particularly ignorant when it comes to the hobby I am afraid.
>>..
>Sorry!!!
>I am very definitely NOT implying anything towards anyone on this ng (or elsewhere),
>it's just that this is the *only* definition I can recall seeing (it was in a
>dictionary of Australian slang).
>
>I admit that I am probably a gunzel myself - sometimes hanging around MFT with a large
>pair of binoculars, to read loco numbers (1254 seen to date).
As it's a 'slang' word, usage defines it, by defnition...
thanks
dave pierson |the facts, as accurately as i can manage,
Compaq Computer Corporation |the opinions, my own.
334 South St |
Shrewsbury, Mass USA pie...@gone.enet.dec.com
"He has read everything, and, to his credit, written nothing." A J Raffles
"....the net of a million lies...." Vernor Vinge
John Cleverdon
Well, its more than just a sign of madness (looking behind my back for the
people in white coats <vbg>).
I also pass my observations from the MFT etc on to Roderick Smith, in case
there is anything of interest for Rail News Victoria.
Derick Wuen
Derick Wuen wrote in message <372e1...@iridium.webone.com.au>...
>Newbie to group seeks info on etymology and usage of term gunzel.
big snip
Thank goodness we have sorted that out. Thanks to all who contributed. I’ll
attempt to summarise.
Gunzel ( noun, slang Australia especially Victoria): A person who pursues
useless and pointless railway enthusiast activities. Verb (intransitive) to
gunzel, to go gunzelling.
UK equivalents: gricer, anorak.
USA equivalents: foamer, foamite.
Usage: usually a derogatory context, sometimes term of endearment (q.v. “you
bastard” and “you old bastard”). Applied by railway enthusiasts and
sometimes by professional railway personnel to other railway enthusiasts,
and represents status layering of the railway enthusiast movement. An early
example (circa 1970) had “steam” and “real” railway enthusiasts apply the
term to the useless and pointless tramway enthusiasts. Other useless and
pointless activities mentioned include:
. taking too many railway photographs;
. collecting engine numbers;
. sitting on platforms merely to watch trains;
. taking 2 or 3 day excursions in rail motors to outlandish places;
. pedantic concentration on esoteric details, not confined to but especially
timetables and safeworking;
. poor social graces (washing habits, unfashionable clothes, boring
conversations, getting in other peoples’ photographs).
Given that many professional railway personnel consider all railway
enthusiast activity to be useless and pointless, by definition all railway
enthusiasts are gunzels. Therefore when used by railway enthusiasts, the
term is becoming less offensive. If this trend continues, then gunzel will
be more aligned to the UK trainspotter rather than gricer.
Derivation:
(1) From an old English term meaning “kept boy”. The homosexual connotation
is probably a reference to useless and pointless activity rather than an
assertion about the sexual preferences of whatever sub-group of railway
enthusiasts are being discriminated against.
(2) From a Hollywood B-grade movie, possibly the “Maltese Falcon”, where
gunsel or gunzel was used as a contraction of gunslinger.
Given that the gunslinger in the Maltese Falcon was quite effective against
all but Sam Spade (Humphrey Bogart), its difficult to see the connection
between gunslinging and useless and pointless railway enthusiasm. I favour
the first derivation, even though the word was not in my concise Oxford.
Collective Nouns: So what word to use for a bunch of railway enthusiasts?
Can we do better than “mob”? Lets try in the UK first. A gaggle of gricers?
Hmmmm, not so descriptive. A grunge of anoraks! Now USA: A froth of foamers!
Oz: A gossip of gunzels!
Observations:
There are some possible reasons for the term not gaining widespread usage
outside Victorian railway enthusiast circles.
(1) the prototype gunzel grouping was tramway enthusiasts. By the 1970’s
there were few tramways outside Victoria to be the objects of useless and
pointless enthusiasm. Most trams, and tram enthusiasts, in other states were
confined to museums by the 1970’s.
(2) By the 1970’s Sydney had become the gay capital of the south pacific.
Any group trying to induce a superior status by inferring another group was
inferior by dint of sexual preference was unlikely to succeed simply because
sexual preference did not provide sufficient discriminatory power within
society (even amongst professional railway employees!). Sydney (and to a
lesser extent NSW) was at the dawn of a sensitive new age era. So how did
professional railway employees characterise useless and pointless railway
enthusiast activity? In the spirit of the sensitive new age they called it
wanking.
To me, the term wanker, or even railway wanker, is not only coarse, but
ineffective at conveying the intent of the term gunzel.. Wanking after all
is not confined to railway enthusiasts. Therefore we should rejoice in the
homegrown term gunzel, and exploit its descriptive powers.
Gunzel-free railway enthusiam?
Can a person indulge in railway enthusiasm without being a gunzel? There is
a valiant attempt to prove the answer to the question is “Yes” by a
contributor to the aus.rail internet newsgroup, who goes by the pseudonym of
Notagunzel.
Contributing original postings, responding to postings and even logging into
and reading postings on aus.rail is likely to be sufficient condition for
attaining gunzelhood. After all, its based on whether someone else thinks
your railway enthusiast activities are useless and pointless.
Notagunzel does all these things and also maintains a website devoted to
railway enthusiasm, the World of Notagunzel
http://ww.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Cockpit/9412/index.html . Notagunzel
strenuously asserts the contrary, not by avoiding railway enthusiast
activities, but by the manner of execution of those activities. This site
contains (amongst other things) photos of disconnected signal lever frames,
current signalling practices in Tasmania, and an official diagram of the
safeworking arrangements at Drome in 1939.
Useless and pointless? Pedantic and boring concentration on detail?
Possibly. But Notagunzel maintains that these things were done in non-gunzel
style, and challenges any gunzel who wants to score points on the manner of
execution of the website to declare gunzelhood by so-doing.
Most of us would not have the strength of character to follow this lead. So
for the rest of us, try this….
Self-Administered Gunzel Quotient Test
Answer yes or no to the following….
(1) I have purchased at least one publication devoted to railway enthusiasm.
(2) I have heaps of railway enthusiast publications.
(3) I am or once was a member of a railway enthusiast society.
(4) I am a member or once was a member of many railway enthusiast societies.
(5) I took a photo of a train once.
(6) I have heaps of photos of trains.
(7) I once looked at a railway oriented website.
(8) I maintain my own railway website, and look at many others.
(9) I once sat on a platform and watched trains go by.
(10) I frequently gather with fellow enthusiasts to watch trains go by.
(11) I know what a railmotor is.
(12) I have been on at least one railmotor trip to a far distant country
destination.
(13) I know what a smokebox is.
(14) I know how many rivets there are in the smokebox of R711.
For each odd-numbered question answered “yes”, score 1 point; for each even
numbered question answered “yes” score 10 points.
GQ: less than 10: what possible interest could you have in aus.rail ?
GQ 11-35: keep at it, you’ll get there eventually.
GQ: 36-50 solid achievement, suggest you take master classes.
GQ: 51-69 are you prepared to give master classes?
GQ: 70+ ok, so was that the number of rivets in the smokebox of R711 before
or after outshopping after major overhaul on 01/05/58?
In the interests of transparency, my score is 47.
MarkBau1
FWIW, my definition of gunzel is someone so consumed by trains that no other
subject ever enters their brains. As an ex VR employee I might also add that an
employee cannot be considered a gunzel, only non employees can be called
gunzels. But I am the first to admit that I have been guilty of "gunzelising"
in the past and perhaps in the future!
Rufus
Derick Wuen wrote in message <37353...@iridium.webone.com.au>...
>
>Derick Wuen wrote in message <372e1...@iridium.webone.com.au>...
>
>
>
>>Newbie to group seeks info on etymology and usage of term gunzel.
>
>
>big snip
>
>Thank goodness we have sorted that out. Thanks to all who contributed. I’ll
>attempt to summarise.
>
BRAVO [sounds of vigorous loud clapping and "oi! oi! oi! oi!]
Its all right Dear! just enjoyed that one quite a lot............
now does he mean to count the odds even when the evens are more correct, oh
well I will count ALL the right answers..... dam! ......57??
Rod ;o)
David Langley
> Derick Wuen wrote in message <372e1...@iridium.webone.com.au>...
>
> >Newbie to group seeks info on etymology and usage of term gunzel.
>
>
>
> . taking too many railway photographs;
> . collecting engine numbers;
> . sitting on platforms merely to watch trains;
> . taking 2 or 3 day excursions in rail motors to outlandish places;
> . pedantic concentration on esoteric details, not confined to but especially
> timetables and safeworking;
Pedancy has nothing on getting the historical facts correct for future
generations of newbies.
Keith Malcolm
GUNZEL IS NOT JUST VICTORIAN TERMINOLOGY ANY MORE!!!!!!
Dave Malcolm
Roderick Smith
nature of the hired gunslingers: slow of speech and dimwitted. The
relatively more-intelligent boss referred to his hick underlings as
'gunsels'.
A third possible origin was mooted when I researched this a few years back:
Gunz photo shop in Sydney, frequented by potential recipients of the
description. I discounted this theory.
I am still sure that the term was applied to Victorian *railway*
enthusiasts long before it was applied to *tramway* ones. AFAIK it has
never been derogatory in the tramway context.
Derick's summary has missed the original use of the word in Victoria. It
was far more directed at the character than at the activity. A gunsel and
a non gunsel could do the same things: one was ok; the other wasn't.
--
Regards
Roderick Smith
Rail News Victoria Editor
Derick Wuen <cul...@webone.com.au> wrote in article
<37353...@iridium.webone.com.au>...
arthur marsh
On Sun, 9 May 1999, Derick Wuen wrote:
> Self-Administered Gunzel Quotient Test
>
> Answer yes or no to the following….
>
> (1) I have purchased at least one publication devoted to railway enthusiasm.
Yes
> (2) I have heaps of railway enthusiast publications.
Only if "Rail Directions", "Catchpoint" and "The Pichi Richi Patter"
constitutes "heaps"
> (3) I am or once was a member of a railway enthusiast society.
Yes
> (4) I am a member or once was a member of many railway enthusiast societies.
Only Pichi Richi Railway Preservation Society Inc and Rail 2000 Inc
> (5) I took a photo of a train once.
Yes
> (6) I have heaps of photos of trains.
Well, some.
> (7) I once looked at a railway oriented website.
Yes, even though from the Australian links pages one could be forgiven for
thinking that Genesee & Wyoming (www.gwrr.com) and Wisconsin Central
(www.wclx.com) have no relavance to railways in Australia.
> (8) I maintain my own railway website, and look at many others.
No, and yes.
> (9) I once sat on a platform and watched trains go by.
Yes, it's called waiting for *your* train at Strathfield.
> (10) I frequently gather with fellow enthusiasts to watch trains go by.
No.
> (11) I know what a railmotor is.
Railcar to the rest of us?
> (12) I have been on at least one railmotor trip to a far distant country
> destination.
Kingston South East from Adelaide qualify?
> (13) I know what a smokebox is.
> (14) I know how many rivets there are in the smokebox of R711.
>
> For each odd-numbered question answered “yes”, score 1 point; for each even
> numbered question answered “yes” score 10 points.
>
> GQ: less than 10: what possible interest could you have in aus.rail ?
> GQ 11-35: keep at it, you’ll get there eventually.
> GQ: 36-50 solid achievement, suggest you take master classes.
> GQ: 51-69 are you prepared to give master classes?
> GQ: 70+ ok, so was that the number of rivets in the smokebox of R711 before
> or after outshopping after major overhaul on 01/05/58?
>
> In the interests of transparency, my score is 47.
>
>
Mine looks like a 16
>
>
>
>
dave pierson
gets The Lot...
(Its posible the Maltese Falcon reference was an _insulting_ use of the
'gunsel' (sense 1, 'kept boy'), which went over the heads of Lots of People,
who not grasping the original meaning, applique'ed on one...)
Alternate term in the US is FRN: ''fine' Rail Nut'.
'foamite', per se, was, (is?) a water treatment product, for use in boiler
water to reduce foaming...
David Johnson
> Derick Wuen wrote in message <372e1...@iridium.webone.com.au>...
>
> >Newbie to group seeks info on etymology and usage of term gunzel.
I think it is worth noting the possibility that the term gunzel could also be
derived from a company in Sydney "R. Gunz" which was a photographic shop
frequented by gossips of gunzels.
> In the interests of transparency, my score is 47.
I got 67.
--
David Johnson
CityRail Guard
trai...@ozemail.com.au
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~trainman/
David Johnson
> Newbie to group seeks info on etymology and usage of term gunzel.
For your next term, why not ask about the humble "Hogaphone"?
Stuart Thyer
> Derick Wuen wrote:
>
> > Newbie to group seeks info on etymology and usage of term gunzel.
>
> For your next term, why not ask about the humble "Hogaphone"?
>
Too easy, the use of the humble battery operated megaphone by one (late)
Eldon Hogan over more years than your average gunzel can even remember to
announce all manners of things relevant and irrelevant while on tours
around Victoria.
He wielded it with such skill?? eloquence?? authority?? too damn
often?? that his hand was rarely seen without it.
Even today, the Hogaphone is the commonly used word around Steamrail for
describing the megaphone.
--
Stuart Thyer
Photographer-Department of Anatomy
University of Melbourne
One time winner of the 'Imaginary chocolate frog of discretion'
John Cleverdon
Derick Wuen wrote:
> Derick Wuen wrote in message <372e1...@iridium.webone.com.au>...
>
> >Newbie to group seeks info on etymology and usage of term gunzel.
>
> big snip
>
> Thank goodness we have sorted that out. Thanks to all who contributed. I’ll
> attempt to summarise.
>
> Other useless and
> pointless activities mentioned include:
>
> . taking too many railway photographs;
Yes, although most of my photos are of railway stations/station sites.
> . collecting engine numbers;
Yes - I am perhaps the only one on this ng who does this (does anyone else
confess to doing it? <g>)
> . sitting on platforms merely to watch trains;
Yes, but then I send my observations to Rail News Victoria as well.
> . taking 2 or 3 day excursions in rail motors to outlandish places;
No.
> . pedantic concentration on esoteric details, not confined to but especially
> timetables and safeworking;
No.
> . poor social graces (washing habits, unfashionable clothes, boring
> conversations, getting in other peoples’ photographs).
No.
> Most of us would not have the strength of character to follow this lead. So
> for the rest of us, try this….
>
> Self-Administered Gunzel Quotient Test
>
> Answer yes or no to the following….
>
> (1) I have purchased at least one publication devoted to railway enthusiasm.
Yes
> (2) I have heaps of railway enthusiast publications.
Yes
> (3) I am or once was a member of a railway enthusiast society.
Yes
> (4) I am a member or once was a member of many railway enthusiast societies.
Yes
> (5) I took a photo of a train once.
Yes
> (6) I have heaps of photos of trains.
Some; as above, most of my photos are from line inspection holidays.
> (7) I once looked at a railway oriented website.
Yes
> (8) I maintain my own railway website, and look at many others.
Yes
> (9) I once sat on a platform and watched trains go by.
Yes
> (10) I frequently gather with fellow enthusiasts to watch trains go by.
No
> (11) I know what a railmotor is.
Yes
> (12) I have been on at least one railmotor trip to a far distant country
> destination.
No
> (13) I know what a smokebox is.
Yes, although my interest is with diesel and electric, not steam, locos.
> (14) I know how many rivets there are in the smokebox of R711.
No
> For each odd-numbered question answered “yes”, score 1 point; for each even
> numbered question answered “yes” score 10 points.
>
> GQ: less than 10: what possible interest could you have in aus.rail ?
> GQ 11-35: keep at it, you’ll get there eventually.
> GQ: 36-50 solid achievement, suggest you take master classes.
> GQ: 51-69 are you prepared to give master classes?
> GQ: 70+ ok, so was that the number of rivets in the smokebox of R711 before
> or after outshopping after major overhaul on 01/05/58?
>
> In the interests of transparency, my score is 47.
As it happens, my score is also 47.
tony bailey
>For your next term, why not ask about the humble "Hogaphone"?
>
>David Johnson
>CityRail Guard
AH! I remember it well.
And if you want some ancient history try "Charlton Shunt."
Tony Bailey
John Dennis
(Stuart Thyer) wrote:
>In article <373AFF65...@ozemail.com.au>, trai...@ozemail.com.au wrote:
>
>> Derick Wuen wrote:
>>
>> > Newbie to group seeks info on etymology and usage of term gunzel.
>>
>> For your next term, why not ask about the humble "Hogaphone"?
>>
>
>Too easy, the use of the humble battery operated megaphone by one (late)
>Eldon Hogan over more years than your average gunzel can even remember to
>announce all manners of things relevant and irrelevant while on tours
>around Victoria.
Ah yes, remember it well. But not just on fan trips. I remember once
travelling by special train to attend school athletic sports at
Olympic Park. I was very surprised to hear the Hogaphone in action as
we filed down the ramp and out towards Swan Street. He must have
taken it upon himself to assist in crowd control - and no, this was
nothing to do with APS/AGS, this was simply divisional High School
sports.
>
>He wielded it with such skill?? eloquence?? authority?? too damn
>often?? that his hand was rarely seen without it.
>
>Even today, the Hogaphone is the commonly used word around Steamrail for
>describing the megaphone.
==========================================================
John Dennis jde...@acslink.net.au
Melbourne den...@cai.com
Australia Home of the Dutton Bay Tramway
DBT URL: http://www.acslink.net.au/~jdennis/dbt.html
MarkBau1
the Hogaphone started warning us to be careful not to trip over the signal
wires. just then Eldon tripped over a signal wire, the last sound from the
hogaphone was a "aaarrrrgggghhhh"!
Derick Wuen
David Johnson wrote in message <373AFF65...@ozemail.com.au>...
>Derick Wuen wrote:
>
>> Newbie to group seeks info on etymology and usage of term gunzel.
>
>For your next term, why not ask about the humble "Hogaphone"?
>
>David Johnson
>CityRail Guard
>http://www.ozemail.com.au/~trainman/
>
I may be a relative newbie to this group but I am not a newbie to rail
enthusiasm (useless, pointless or otherwise). I am thus quite familiar with
the hogaphone and the gentleman who operated same. I agree that hogaphone
deserves a place in any dictionary of railway enthusiast terms. But the
hogaphone was never humble!
Eldon was a delight to see in operation, and was unfailingly courteous and
helpful to us out-of-staters who did not quite know the way things were done
in Victoria. The man to see about stuff when in Melbourne.....
I never did work out how most (?) of the announcements made on said
hogaphone about train movements in the immediate vicinity usually came to
pass...... was Eldon really told all this detail in advance, or did the
ever-alert train crews, signalmen and yard shunters listen intently to what
he had to say and then carry it out diligently?
Either way, anyone who has tried to convince (a) mechanical branch and (b)
traffic branch and (c) your fellow tour organisers to carry out some planned
and agreed manoeuvre in some coordinated fashion just had to look on in awe
at how Eldon seemingly orchestrated things.
My favourite piece of Hogania goes back to 1973 (!). The great Easter steam
tour of that year had 3801+3820 on the SG, R707 parallel running on the BG
plus all sorts of side trips to odd corners of Melbourne, Ballarat, Geelong,
PBS etc. all subject to the blare of the hogaphone.
After some days at this we were finally belting home through the gathering
darkness somewhere north of Seymour. At that point my fellow lounge-car
occupants and I were engaged in constructing an accelerometer which was
designed to test the vertical and horizontal components of the oscillations
of the lounge car. The accelerometer was being constructed from available
materials, viz MT VB cans. A copious supply of VB had been taken on board,
but most of them were full at this stage. After rendering every assistance I
could to converting the fulls to MT's, I had to visit the blow-down pit
errrr gents. As I lurched down the swaying corridor (or was that sway down
the lurching corridor) to the gents in the next car, I became aware of Eldon
in the vestibule.
I politely enquired as to the reason for his presence on the train. Had he
forgotten to get off? How was he going to get home? He said there was no way
he was going to miss being behind double 38's going flat chat across
Victoria. And besides, there was a pass he could catch from Albury. After
sharing the stack-talk and soot from the open windows with him for a while,
and reliving the highlight of the last couple of days, I performed the
blow-down and returned to the serious engineering task at hand.
My fellow VB guzzlers errr engineering students also chatted away with him
on their way to and from the blow-down facility. The accelerometer was
achieving suitable pyramidal proportions by the time Albury came, but while
coaling and watering took place there, more VB was brought on board to
ensure adequate testing of the ride on NSW metals. As Albury fell behind we
noticed Eldon was still in the vestibule. He mumbled (or did we hear
indistinctly) that he was not without influence on the railways north of the
border, and that he would hop on the Spirit at Junee or Wagga or wherever
our special was due to cross.
By the time we reached Goulburn it had become clear that more parts were
needed to achieve the now-evident optimum dimensions of the accelerometer.
We had decided that it had to be at least 7 feet high, on a suitably broad
base to test the riding qualities of the lounge car properly. The "very
small" prototypes we had been testing thus far were either too senstitive if
tall enough or not sensitive enough if on a wide base. Thus preoccupied, we
were startled to find, as we manhandled the new VB errrr accelerometer parts
through the vestibule door that a very soot-stained and cold Eldon was still
with us. He explained that he didn't have a ticket for the Spirit, he was a
bit dirty and seeing that he had come this far he might as well clean up at
Central.
The last I recall of Eldon on this trip was seeing him wander off to the
Gents at Central, no doubt to clean up, after we had all witnessed the
"ritual of the uncoupling" and the "ceremony of the final runaround", and
made sure the 38's were indeed on their way back to Enfield.
Oh, yes.... the accelerometer. The special entered Sydney via the "main
south" i.e. via Granville, and not the short cut via Regent's Park. The 38's
were putting on quite a good show over this stretch and somewhere in the
vicinity of the original Parramatta terminus, the lounge car lunged to one
side under the influence of curve and imperfect alignment as we crossed some
interlocking. The accelerometer did its stuff by recording the event with a
mighty crash and a shower of MT's all over the car. I don't recall whether
we were incapable of reconstructing it, but eventually we carefully placed
all the parts in the green garbage bags provided for the use of passengers.
And if you aren't careful, I'll tell you about the combination
airconditioner - drinks cooler we built in a TAM compartment from available
materials whilst on tour on a very hot day....
Derick Wuen
dave pierson wrote in message <7hegvg$q9d$1...@nntpd.lkg.dec.com>...
>At the risk of being pedantic (8)>>), but anyone using the word
'eytymology'
>gets The Lot...
Gidday Dave good to see alt.railroad poster in this ng.
>(Its posible the Maltese Falcon reference was an _insulting_ use of the
>'gunsel' (sense 1, 'kept boy'), which went over the heads of Lots of
People,
>who not grasping the original meaning, applique'ed on one...)
>
Its possible, now you point it out. Straight over my head. The gunsel in
question's name was "Homer", I think. I was busy avoiding Simpsons
allusions, and it wizzed over. That's my excuse, anyway.
>Alternate term in the US is FRN: ''fine' Rail Nut'.
Are you sure the F is for "fine"?
>'foamite', per se, was, (is?) a water treatment product, for use in boiler
>water to reduce foaming...
NSW enginemen called it "soap".
When I worked on locos we had a 2 part treatment of "red powder" and "liquid
from the blue drum" which we mixed in a bucket of hot water from the
injector overflow in doses calculated from a dipstick measurement of
remaining water in the tender. Result put a pink tinge over all parts in
touch with steam or water, including fingers or any other body parts.
Rendered injector overflow useless for brewing tea or coffee..... guaranteed
to stop even the most ardent rail enthusiast frothing at the mouth under any
circumstance.
David Langley
>
>
>
> After some days at this we were finally belting home through the gathering
> darkness somewhere north of Seymour. At that point my fellow lounge-car
> occupants and I were engaged in constructing an accelerometer which was
> designed to test the vertical and horizontal components of the oscillations
> of the lounge car. The accelerometer was being constructed from available
> materials, viz MT VB cans. A copious supply of VB had been taken on board,
A copious supply of VB is 1. 2 would be 1 too many and in fact I have heard it
argued that 2 would be 3 too many.
>
> but most of them were full at this stage.
And that is the situation that should have remained until Central/Terminal.
> After rendering every assistance I
> could to converting the fulls to MT's,
Now I commend your volunteer attitude to this worthwhile project - but
VB!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
> And if you aren't careful, I'll tell you about the combination
> airconditioner - drinks cooler we built in a TAM compartment from available
> materials whilst on tour on a very hot day....
As long as it's not VB.
DEL
Derick Wuen
David Langley wrote in message <3741656B...@ancc.com.au>...
>Derick Wuen wrote:
>
>>
>
>>
>>
>> After some days at this we were finally belting home through the
gathering
>> darkness somewhere north of Seymour. At that point my fellow lounge-car
>> occupants and I were engaged in constructing an accelerometer which was
>> designed to test the vertical and horizontal components of the
oscillations
>> of the lounge car. The accelerometer was being constructed from available
>> materials, viz MT VB cans. A copious supply of VB had been taken on
board,
>
it
>argued that 2 would be 3 too many.
>
>
>>
>
>
>> could to converting the fulls to MT's,
> Now I commend your volunteer attitude to this worthwhile project - but
> VB!!!!!!!!!!
>
>
>> And if you aren't careful, I'll tell you about the combination
>> airconditioner - drinks cooler we built in a TAM compartment from
available
>> materials whilst on tour on a very hot day....
>
> As long as it's not VB.
>
> DEL
I offer the following six-pack of excuses, some of which may be true, and
some hard to swallow......
1. In 1973 I was but a callow youth with ill-formed tastes. Now I am older.
2. We were in Victoria, and thus wanted to experience the full Victorian
experience.
3. The lounge car was coded BV. VB in a BV seemed the right thing to do.
4. The nearest bottle shop could only supply VB in the quantitites demanded
at the price we were willing to pay.
5. The phrase "MT VB" sounds neater and looks neater in print than "empty
nameyourpoison".
6. I was fibbing. Only 707 of the 3820 MT's in the accelerometer as
ultimately configured were VB MT's.
Cheers
David Langley
>
>
> 6. I was fibbing. Only 707 of the 3820 MT's in the accelerometer as
> ultimately configured were VB MT's.
That's a relief.
David.