[NSW] Gauntlet Track
David Bennetts
find a photograph of gauntletted (sometimes known as interlaced) track in
the tunnel under Broadway, on the former Darling Harbour line, now
apparently known as the the Powerhouse sidings. Refer
www.ozemail.com.au/~neety/trains/powerhouse.html
I would be interested to know whether this is the only example of this track
now existing in NSW, and when and why it was constructed. (obviously just a
few years back ). I can remember the old Como Bridge too well, and had
thought that the track on that bridge was the only example in the State, and
had disappeared with the replacement higher level bridge being commissioned.
Regards
David Bennetts
Canberra
ro...@shado.bozonet
I've just put up the following photo:
http://www.pobox.com/~rolfe/nsw/images/gauntlet.jpg
It is at... well, shouldn't be too hard for someone to guess :-)
See ya,
Rolfe
--
Rolfe Bozier ro...@pobox.com http://www.pobox.com/~rolfe
Programmer for hire! +61 (0)2 9427 8373
"The gull sees furthest who flies highest"
Paul Jones
near Taro or Brersefield I think it was.
Anyway, what is the purpose of this type of track? seems like a waste of
time to me.
----------
Paul Jones
David Bennetts wrote in message <394c...@newshost.pcug.org.au>...
>While looking through neety's most interesting website, I was surprised to
>find a photograph of gauntletted (sometimes known as interlaced) track in
>the tunnel under Broadway, on the former Darling Harbour line, now
>apparently known as the the Powerhouse sidings. Refer
>www.ozemail.com.au/~neety/trains/powerhouse.html
>
>I would be interested to know whether this is the only example of this
track
>now existing in NSW, and when and why it was constructed. (obviously just a
>few years back ). I can remember the old Como Bridge too well, and had
>thought that the track on that bridge was the only example in the State,
and
>had disappeared with the replacement higher level bridge being
commissioned.
>
>Regards
>
>David Bennetts
>Canberra
>
>
Barry Campbell
David Bennetts wrote in message <394c...@newshost.pcug.org.au>...
>While looking through neety's most interesting website, I was surprised to
>find a photograph of gauntletted (sometimes known as interlaced) track in
>the tunnel under Broadway, on the former Darling Harbour line, now
>apparently known as the the Powerhouse sidings. Refer
>www.ozemail.com.au/~neety/trains/powerhouse.html
>
>I would be interested to know whether this is the only example of this
track
>now existing in NSW, and when and why it was constructed. (obviously just a
>few years back ). I can remember the old Como Bridge too well, and had
>thought that the track on that bridge was the only example in the State,
and
>had disappeared with the replacement higher level bridge being
commissioned.
>
The reason for its existence was the fact that the DH line was double track
except through the single track tunnel under Broadway. The alternative would
be two sets of points which would need much more maintenance than this sort
of arrangements.
Other than on weighbridges the only examples I can think of are the DH one,
the old Como bridge and the Wallsend Tramline where it passed under a
railway to Old Lambton (?) Colliery in Lambton.
Barry Campbell
Graeme Cleak
Line crossed over Curl Curl Lagoon in Pittwater Rd, just beyond Manly Depot.
Graeme Cleak.
Barry Campbell <camp...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:Xc235.18329$N4.6...@ozemail.com.au...
Rod Gayford
double track. However, due to low clearances in the tunnel, to provide
sufficient height for the catenary, only a single track down the middle of
the tunnel that was gauntleted was laid. Now that the track is now
de-energised the gauntlet track is now only a historical curiosity. On the
coal roads the gauntlet track is laid in association with a weigh bridge
with one set of tracks going over the electronic weigh bridge whilst the
other set are just for normal running and speed.
Cheers
Rod Gayford
"Graeme Cleak" <gcl...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:394cceb4$0$16999$7f31...@news01.syd.optusnet.com.au...
James Robinson
> Only trains being weighed use the turnout track. Trains not being weighed can
> go through on the main line at full track speed.
My understanding of a gauntlet (or gantlet, or interlaced) track was
where there were two frogs and no points, such as used through tunnels
or over bridges.
The photo shows an arrangement with two sets of points and no frogs.
These type of arrangement also exists where high speed trains are routed
away from high platforms, while stopping trains are routed closer to the
platform through the turnouts. I have heard these called gauntlet
tracks as well.
My question is, has anyone heard of any terms that differentiate the
two?
David Johnson
> There is some of this track in the hunter valley on the coal lines somewhere
> near Taro or Brersefield I think it was.
>
> Anyway, what is the purpose of this type of track? seems like a waste of
> time to me.
Only trains being weighed use the turnout track. Trains not being weighed can
go through on the main line at full track speed.
--
David Johnson
trai...@ozemail.com.au
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~trainman/
------------------------------------
These comments are made in a private
capacity and do not represent the
official view of State Rail.
C.O.W.S. Page 11.
MattyQ
David Johnson <trai...@ozemail.com.au> wrote in message
news:394CE1BB...@ozemail.com.au...
> Paul Jones wrote:
>
> > There is some of this track in the hunter valley on the coal lines
somewhere
> > near Taro or Brersefield I think it was.
> >
> > Anyway, what is the purpose of this type of track? seems like a waste of
> > time to me.
>
> Only trains being weighed use the turnout track. Trains not being weighed
can
> go through on the main line at full track speed.
Isn't there one of these around the Clyde area too? Is it still in use?
--
Matt Smith
Brisbane Australia.
Reply to matty...@dingoblue.net.au
Bill McNiven
track
>now existing in NSW, and when and why it was constructed. (obviously just a
>few years back ).
electrified ca. 1956. There wasn't room for two 46 class to pass!
Rgds
Chris Stratton
--
Regards,
Chris Stratton
Wollongong, NSW, Australia
<ro...@shado.bozonet> wrote in message news:8ihc8p$506$1...@shado.bozonet...
> In article <394c...@newshost.pcug.org.au>,
> David Bennetts <davi...@pcug.org.au> wrote:
> > While looking through neety's most interesting website, I was surprised
to
> > find a photograph of gauntletted (sometimes known as interlaced) track
in
> > the tunnel under Broadway, on the former Darling Harbour line, now
> > apparently known as the the Powerhouse sidings. Refer
> > www.ozemail.com.au/~neety/trains/powerhouse.html
> >
> > I would be interested to know whether this is the only example of this
track
> > now existing in NSW, and when and why it was constructed. (obviously
just a
> > few years back ). I can remember the old Como Bridge too well, and had
> > thought that the track on that bridge was the only example in the State,
and
> > had disappeared with the replacement higher level bridge being
commissioned.
>
Marc Hunt
operated by electric staff to take the stresses and weight off the cracked
pylon whilst the new bridge was being built.
--
Marc Hunt
(ex-Enfield Guard)
nospam...@pip.com.au
Geoff Lambert
wrote:
>Lets not forget the Old Hawksbury River Bridge was turned into a gauntlet
>operated by electric staff to take the stresses and weight off the cracked
>pylon whilst the new bridge was being built.
>
Not only at the END of its life.
For some reason, the section Hawkesbury River - Wondabyne (a different
Wondabyne to today's) was converted back from double-track to single,
worked by electric staff, in about 1893. But, I don't think it was
gauntleted. When the rest of the line was doubled, in the 1910s?, the
bridge was re-opened as a double track section.
Geoff Lambert
ro...@shado.bozonet
Chris Stratton <stratton...@bhp.com.au> wrote:
> Looks like Hexham.
Yep (said it was easy!).
John McCandless
David Bennetts <davi...@pcug.org.au> wrote in message
news:394c...@newshost.pcug.org.au...
> While looking through neety's most interesting website, I was surprised to
> find a photograph of gauntletted (sometimes known as interlaced) track in
> the tunnel under Broadway, on the former Darling Harbour line, now
> apparently known as the the Powerhouse sidings.
<Insert English lesson question>
I presume this is where we get the phrase "running the gauntlet"?
--
John McCandless
Never play leapfrog with a unicorn...
Cloncurry Qld Au
http://www.geocities.com/SouthBeach/Port/3150/index.htm
Eddie Oliver
>
> <Insert English lesson question>
> I presume this is where we get the phrase "running the gauntlet"?
I wouldn't recommend the English lesson approach. Whenever the subject
of gauntlet tracks appears on overseas rail newsgroups, it seems to
start a month's debate about whether the spelling is gantlet or
gauntlet, and what the relationship is (if any) to gauntlets (as in
gloves) or "running the gauntlet", etc. Try deja news archives if you
are really that keen! (Actually I think there's mention of the subject
on uk.railway at the moment, although I haven't read it.)
To try to produce a general answer to a couple of the questions asked:
The main purpose of gauntlet track (apart from weighbridges) is simply
to enable a double track to go someplace where there is not enough
clearance for normal double track, but without requiring any pointwork.
So granted that this sort of purpose is often needed, gauntlet track is
not all that uncommon around the world, but there were relatively few
examples in Australia.
Eddie Oliver
Jonathan Boles
normal track?
John McCandless <joh...@topend.com.au> wrote in article
<394dd...@news.topend.com.au>...
>
> David Bennetts <davi...@pcug.org.au> wrote in message
> news:394c...@newshost.pcug.org.au...
> > While looking through neety's most interesting website, I was surprised to
> > find a photograph of gauntletted (sometimes known as interlaced) track in
> > the tunnel under Broadway, on the former Darling Harbour line, now
> > apparently known as the the Powerhouse sidings.
>
> <Insert English lesson question>
> I presume this is where we get the phrase "running the gauntlet"?
>
>
Eddie Oliver
>
> Why is there a special case for weighbridges? Why are they gauntlet track not
> normal track?
So that trains not being weighed don't have to pass over the active
weighbridge rails.
It is really a misrepresentation to label the weighbridges as "gauntlet
track" in the normal sense, since that entails NO pointwork; in the
weighbridge cases, there IS pointwork to select whether a train goes
over the "weigh" rails or the "non-weigh" rails.
Eddie
MattyQ
Eddie Oliver <eol...@efs.mq.edu.au> wrote in message
news:394E096E...@efs.mq.edu.au...
> It is really a misrepresentation to label the weighbridges as "gauntlet
> track" in the normal sense, since that entails NO pointwork; in the
> weighbridge cases, there IS pointwork to select whether a train goes
> over the "weigh" rails or the "non-weigh" rails.
>
> Eddie
I'm not sure if pointwork really is the distinguishing factor here. I think
the weighbridges are gauntlet track for the mere fact that the two tracks
laterally (not a spelling error) "overlap" each other. If lack of pointwork
was the distinguishing factor, then the North Geelong - Gheringhap line
would have to be called a Gauntlet, rather than Dual Gauge. This is because
there are no moving blades where the gauges combine/split. The gauge of the
train determines which way the train goes. If you wanted to get REALLY
pedantic, you could say the old Peterborough triple gauge was actually a
combination dual gauge (1067/1435mm and 1067/1600mm) and gauntlet track
(1435/1600mm) but let's not get into that!!!
carrington
<eol...@efs.mq.edu.au> wrote:
>John McCandless wrote:
>>
>> <Insert English lesson question>
>> I presume this is where we get the phrase "running the gauntlet"?
>
>I wouldn't recommend the English lesson approach. Whenever the subject
>of gauntlet tracks appears on overseas rail newsgroups, it seems to
>start a month's debate about whether the spelling is gantlet or
>gauntlet, and what the relationship is (if any) to gauntlets (as in
>gloves) or "running the gauntlet", etc. Try deja news archives if you
>are really that keen! (Actually I think there's mention of the subject
>on uk.railway at the moment, although I haven't read it.)
>
I know it's currently being discussed in the listserv group
Brit_Rail_L ... ad infinitum
Albert Alcoceba
<matty...@dingoblue.net.au> wrote:
>Isn't there one of these around the Clyde area too? Is it still in use?
There is, or at least used to be, one of this weighbridge gauntlet
arrangements in Campsie, NSW as well.
Albert Alcoceba
<><
alb...@zip.com.au
http://homepages.tig.com.au/~alberta
David Johnson
> Eddie Oliver <eol...@efs.mq.edu.au> wrote in message
> news:394E096E...@efs.mq.edu.au...
> > It is really a misrepresentation to label the weighbridges as "gauntlet
> > track" in the normal sense, since that entails NO pointwork; in the
> > weighbridge cases, there IS pointwork to select whether a train goes
> > over the "weigh" rails or the "non-weigh" rails.
> >
> > Eddie
>
> I'm not sure if pointwork really is the distinguishing factor here. I think
> the weighbridges are gauntlet track for the mere fact that the two tracks
> laterally (not a spelling error) "overlap" each other.
Overlap, as in a glove?
From www.dictionary.com:
gaunt·let1 also gant·let (gôntlt, gänt-).
n.
1.A protective glove worn with medieval armor.
2.A protective glove with a flared cuff, used in manual labor, in
certain sports, and for
driving.
3.A challenge: throw down the gauntlet; take up the gauntlet.
4.A dress glove cuffed above the wrist.
[Middle English from Old French gantelet, diminutive of gant, glove from
Frankish *want.]
Word History: In the first and second editions of The American Heritage
Dictionary
Usage Notes explained why the spelling gauntlet is acceptable for both
gauntlet1 and
gauntlet2. Such has not always been the case. The story of gauntlet1, as
in to throw
down the gauntlet, is unexciting: it comes from the Old French word
gantelet, a
diminutive of gant, “glove.” From the time of its appearance in Middle
English (in a work
composed in 1449), the word has been spelled with an au as well as an a,
still a possible
spelling. But the other gauntlet, as in to run the gauntlet, is an
alteration of the earlier
English form gantlope, which came from the Swedish word gatlopp, a
compound of
gata, “lane,” and lopp, “course.” The earliest recorded form of the
English word, found in
1646, is gantelope, showing that alteration of the Swedish word had
already occurred.
The English word was then influenced by the spelling of the word
gauntlet, “glove,” and
in 1676 we find the first recorded instance of the spelling gauntlet for
this word, although
gantelope is found as late as 1836. From then on spellings with au and a
are both found.
The au seems to have won out, although one could say that the a is
preferable because it
reflects the Swedish source. In regard to a word that has been so altered
in form, this
seems a rather fine point.
From www.m-w.com:
Main Entry: 1gaunt·let
Pronunciation: 'gont-l&t, 'gänt-
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French gantelet,
diminutive
of gant glove, of Germanic origin; akin to Middle Dutch
want glove,
Old Norse vottr
Date: 15th century
1 : a glove worn with medieval armor to protect the hand
2 : any of various protective gloves used especially in
industry
3 : an open challenge (as to combat) -- used in phrases
like throw
down the gauntlet
4 : a dress glove extending above the wrist
- gaunt·let·ed /-l&-t&d/ adjective
Main Entry: 2gauntlet
Function: noun
Etymology: by folk etymology from gantelope
Date: 1645
1 : a severe trial : ORDEAL <ran the gauntlet of criticism
and censure>
2 a : a double file of men facing each other and armed with
clubs or
other weapons with which to strike at an individual who is
made to run
between them -- used with run b : a long line (as of guards
or
well-wishers)
noff...@my-deja.com
Australia ? I'd like to ride from Sydney to Brisbane. Tips on best
places to jump on or off, types of wagons that are the best to ride,
would be appreciated.
thanks
N_D
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
noff...@my-deja.com
David Bromage
> is there a website or some information on riding freights in
> Australia ?
No, because it's illegal and dangerous.
Cheers
David
Michael Kurkowski
> places to jump on or off, types of wagons that are the best to ride,
> would be appreciated.
Good place to start would be www.darwinawards.com (-:
Michael
Rob Kearey
Even better, http://www.deadtrainbums.com.
Warning: do not visit this website.
> Michael
--
Rob Kearey [whitespace goes here] give me the karma, mama
51st Australian Intervarsity Choral Festival
Brisbane, Queensland http://www.biv2000.aicsa.org.au
Michael Kurkowski
>
> is there a website or some information on riding freights in
> Australia ? I'd like to ride from Sydney to Brisbane. Tips on best
> places to jump on or off, types of wagons that are the best to ride,
> would be appreciated.
Good place to start would be www.darwinawards.com (-:
Michael
noff...@my-deja.com
Umm, life involves risks, children. If it didn't, we wouldn't value
it. How many of you smoke, go over 110 occasionally, take an E etc ?
You take your poison, I'll take mine . . .
N_D
> Michael Kurkowski pulled it out, sniffed, and stuck it back in again
and wrote:
>
Good place to start would be www.darwinawards.com (-:
>
> Even better, http://www.deadtrainbums.com.
>
> Warning: do not visit this website.
>
> > Michael
>
> --
> Rob Kearey [whitespace goes here] give me the karma, mama
> 51st Australian Intervarsity Choral Festival
> Brisbane, Queensland http://www.biv2000.aicsa.org.au
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Rob Kearey
> Put simply, save up some money and buy a ticket on the XPT. It isn't
> that expensive!
The freight train would provide similar levels of comfort, and you'd
have no problems with argumentative passengers (Wadder YOO lookin' at?).
> - James Brook -
Mark Bau
> From: noff...@my-deja.com
> Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy.
> Newsgroups: aus.rail
> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 02:01:06 GMT
> Subject: hobos and train hopping
>
> is there a website or some information on riding freights in
> Australia ? I'd like to ride from Sydney to Brisbane. Tips on best
> places to jump on or off, types of wagons that are the best to ride,
> would be appreciated.
>
> thanks
>
> N_D
>
>
>
>
> Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
> Before you buy.
It is stupid and illegal to ride freight trains and I strongly warn against
it. However, if you are dead set on doing it I would advise the following in
an effort to make it as safe as possible for you.
Don't try to board a moving train, get on when its stopped
Boxcars may look inviting if the door is open but be aware that once you are
inside the door may close and you will be trapped.
An empty open wagon is probably the safest wagon to ride in, do not get in a
open wagon that has a load in it. (the load could shift and crush you)
The end area of a covered hopper is pretty safe but stay away from all brake
equipment, it can move and perhaps crush you or a part of you.
Bottom line, don't do it but if you must please follow my guidelines, at
least that way you might have a 10% chance of not getting killed or losing a
limb.
Mark
James Brook
>
> It is stupid and illegal to ride freight trains and I strongly warn against
> it. However, if you are dead set on doing it I would advise the following in
> an effort to make it as safe as possible for you.
>
> Don't try to board a moving train, get on when its stopped
>
> Boxcars may look inviting if the door is open but be aware that once you are
> inside the door may close and you will be trapped.
>
> An empty open wagon is probably the safest wagon to ride in, do not get in a
> open wagon that has a load in it. (the load could shift and crush you)
>
> The end area of a covered hopper is pretty safe but stay away from all brake
> equipment, it can move and perhaps crush you or a part of you.
>
> Bottom line, don't do it but if you must please follow my guidelines, at
> least that way you might have a 10% chance of not getting killed or losing a
> limb.
Put simply, save up some money and buy a ticket on the XPT. It isn't
that expensive!
--
- James Brook -
----------------------------------------------------------------
e-mail:
mailto:ajmb...@ozemail.com.au
Victorian Railfan Web Site:
http://www.railpage.org.au/vr/
----------------------------------------------------------------
Dave Proctor
news:395060C0...@ozemail.com.au...
> Mark Bau wrote:
> >
> > It is stupid and illegal to ride freight trains and I strongly warn
against
> > it. However, if you are dead set on doing it I would advise the
following in
> > an effort to make it as safe as possible for you.
> >
> > Don't try to board a moving train, get on when its stopped
> >
> > Boxcars may look inviting if the door is open but be aware that once you
are
> > inside the door may close and you will be trapped.
> >
> > An empty open wagon is probably the safest wagon to ride in, do not get
in a
> > open wagon that has a load in it. (the load could shift and crush you)
> >
> > The end area of a covered hopper is pretty safe but stay away from all
brake
> > equipment, it can move and perhaps crush you or a part of you.
> >
> > Bottom line, don't do it but if you must please follow my guidelines, at
> > least that way you might have a 10% chance of not getting killed or
losing a
> > limb.
>
> Put simply, save up some money and buy a ticket on the XPT. It isn't
> that expensive!
But which is more comfortable?
Dave
James Brook
cars to be fairly comfortable. They are better than the Sprinters or N
sets we have down here in Victoria and they are way ahead of the buses
in comfort. I think the biggest problem with the XPT is the
unreliability of the locomotive units but hopefully this will be fixed
up soon. As for argumentative passengers, you will get that on just
about all forms of public transport.
Rob Kearey wrote:
>
> James Brook wrote:
>
> > Put simply, save up some money and buy a ticket on the XPT. It isn't
> > that expensive!
>
> The freight train would provide similar levels of comfort, and you'd
> have no problems with argumentative passengers (Wadder YOO lookin' at?).
>
> > - James Brook -
>
> --
> Rob Kearey [whitespace goes here] give me the karma, mama
> 51st Australian Intervarsity Choral Festival
> Brisbane, Queensland http://www.biv2000.aicsa.org.au
--
Dave Proctor
> First Monograph, Lesson One:
>
> Umm, life involves risks, children. If it didn't, we wouldn't value
> it. How many of you smoke,
Never have.
> go over 110 occasionally,
Only in 60 zones. :-)
> take an E etc ?
Nah, E and alcohol don't mix well, you need to be well hydrated if taking
E's and alcohol dehydrates you.
> You take your poison, I'll take mine . . .
What about the people that have to dig you out once you have completely
mangled yourself in the brake gear at the end of hopper cars, or find you
crushed under a shifting load?
Dave
Graeme Nitz
gantlet) track as the tracks have to be "Interleaved" according to my
remembrance of reading the AAR dictionary from years ago.
By the way the much lamented "Yanks" in the form of the AAR accept both
spellings.
A version of the reason for Gauntlet track being called that is the shape of
the rails leading into it being shaped ike the flair on "Gauntlets" ie
armoured gloves. This is probably just a myth but it seems right.
The track on weigh bridges are Gauntlet despite the use of switchblades. A
Gauntlet point is a point where the rails leading to the crossing point
(frog) are Gauntleted to allow the Switchblades to be kept away from a
location where it would be difficult to build and/or maintain them, ie
street trackage, on a bridge, etc.
A interesting use of Gauntlet track was on one of the US railroads (N&W I
think) where 2 tracks on a steel trestle were Gauntleted and had guard
rails layed between a total of 6 rails!!! A photo of this is in John
Armstrongs - Track Planning fro Realistic Operation.
--
Graeme Nitz
PRRT&HS Member #1313
Slobbering Pennsy Freak
Chris Downs
New York - Richmond from memory??? The track was gauntlet to bypass works
of some kind and much the same as has occurred on single track two EMUs
collided head on (slight offset) due to a SPAD. Steel cars were involved
but the telescoping was quite nasty with loss of life.
Chris
Graeme Nitz <p...@unite.com.au> wrote in message
news:8iq3bq$665$1...@argon.syd.dav.net.au...
Deeg
<cvd...@ozemail.com.au> wrote:
>From memory the Americans had a bad head-on collision on gauntlet track in
>New York - Richmond from memory??? The track was gauntlet to bypass works
>of some kind and much the same as has occurred on single track two EMUs
>collided head on (slight offset) due to a SPAD. Steel cars were involved
>but the telescoping was quite nasty with loss of life.
Rockville Centre on the Long Island RR (New York), 17 Feb 1950. 31
fatalities. Easily confused with the far worse Richmond Hill on the
LIRR in November of the same year, which killed 79 when a stopped
train was struck from behind at high speed.
Don Galt
Stuart Thyer
----------
In article <8iprme$mpo$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>, noff...@my-deja.com wrote:
>First Monograph, Lesson One:
>
>Umm, life involves risks, children. If it didn't, we wouldn't value
>it. How many of you smoke, go over 110 occasionally, take an E etc ?
>You take your poison, I'll take mine . . .
>
It'd be fair to say that no-one here can really give you any tips because we
haven't done it. Train hopping is not something that really happens in
Australia like it does in America so we don't hear of it happening, don't
know where you would get on etc.
Look for somewhere goods slow down once out the main marshalling yards. I
wouldn't have a clue about what and where in Sydney, only that the traffic
is largely containers on flats, no-where to hide and that coal trains won't
get you very far (certainly no-where interesting)
Stuart
noff...@my-deja.com
occur. I'm aware of the general rules re what wagons to ride- most
problems in the states come from loose shifting loads- boxcars of
timber in the Pacific NW are the real killer. I've followed the rules
posted by Mark Bau in the States and had few problems. I was more after
info on what particular wagon classes are easy, have problems etc.
The option of catching the XPT sorta misses the point of jumping
freights in the first place, and would expose this happy camper to a
class of people he would not normally pay good money to be cooped up
with.
Thanks for the help.
David Bromage
> The option of catching the XPT sorta misses the point of jumping
> freights in the first place, and would expose this happy camper to a
> class of people he would not normally pay good money to be cooped up
> with.
Go to Queensland and you can ride a goods train in the relative(?) comfort
of a non-airconditioned guards van.
Cheers
David
Russell Norton
<noff...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8irncl$2dl$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Haven't been crushed yet and common sense should ensure it won't
> occur. I'm aware of the general rules re what wagons to ride- most
> problems in the states come from loose shifting loads- boxcars of
> timber in the Pacific NW are the real killer. I've followed the rules
> posted by Mark Bau in the States and had few problems. I was more after
> info on what particular wagon classes are easy, have problems etc.
>
> freights in the first place, and would expose this happy camper to a
> class of people he would not normally pay good money to be cooped up
> with.
>
>
> N_D
Have fun freezing to death. Although police cells are warm when you get
caught, and yes you will get caught.
Hitchhike with a semi-trailer instead. Nice and comfy, and the driver might
give you a steer when the pills wear off.
Russ.
David Head
Graeme Nitz wrote in part:
> I don't think Dual gauge track could ever be classed as gauntlet (or
> gantlet) track as the tracks have to be "Interleaved" according to my
> remembrance of reading the AAR dictionary from years ago.
Isn't the line form Somerton to Ford - gauntlet ? I know the cement us duel
gauge, but I had a impression that the broad and standard gauge has four rails
on common sleepers ????
Regards,
David Head
noff...@my-deja.com
haven't gotten caught, and no, I probably won't get caught.
Tried the semis in Australia and I'm not really prepared to 'pay' for
the privelege in the way the drivers seem to want. I like my men about
100lbs lighter, preferably freshly showered, and willing to return the
favour.
Again, though, the point of hoboing isn't getting A-B, its the thrill
of the ride.
But nice to know you care.
N_D
>
> Have fun freezing to death. Although police cells are warm when you
get
> caught, and yes you will get caught.
>
> Hitchhike with a semi-trailer instead. Nice and comfy, and the driver
might
> give you a steer when the pills wear off.
>
> Russ.
>
>
Rod Young
travellers were on trains. The first young lady slept in an open truck
[gondola] that had a 40 ft container in it, and it shifted during the night,
crushing her! Their was some doubt as to whether she had not already died
from the cold. She had boarded the train at Mile End and had travelled
thought the night to Melbourne.
The second incident concerned two young boys who did not enjoy a trip of
about an hour at 50mph on an end step, from Ford Geelong to Melbourne. When
we tried to get them to let go the handrails, we almost had to break their
fingers. It was funny to see them very slowly move away from us, and
gradually their speed increased as the blood again began to warm their
system up, I guess we laughed but it was pretty serious, and they were very
lucky.
By the large, it is not a good idea to travel this way in Australia.
Vans [boxcars] are all steel, very cold, and padlocked, most stuff is
carried in Containers, and those "thrall" type 5 packs that you could travel
on would be just too cold, and as they are skeletal, probably too dangerous.
--
Rod Young
http://hobsonmodelrail.rrdepot.com/
Foundation President and Co-Founder
Hobson's Bay Model Railway Club Inc.
Operators of Australia's only 'Australian' Model Railway Show
Every Easter in Melbourne.
and my page
http://hobsonmodelrail.rrdepot.com/rods
Michael Kurkowski <m...@netstra.com.au> wrote in message
news:39502CE4...@netstra.com.au...
> noff...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > is there a website or some information on riding freights in
> > Australia ? I'd like to ride from Sydney to Brisbane. Tips on best
> > places to jump on or off, types of wagons that are the best to ride,
> > would be appreciated.
>
> Good place to start would be www.darwinawards.com (-:
>
> Michael
David Bromage
> Russell, I have the benefit of a some experience in this (have you ?),
> haven't gotten caught, and no, I probably won't get caught.
"It won't happen to me" sounds like famous last words.
> Again, though, the point of hoboing isn't getting A-B, its the thrill
> of the ride.
I fail to see how riding a container flat can be considered a thrill.
Cheers
David
Rob Kearey
> Again, though, the point of hoboing isn't getting A-B, its the thrill
> of the ride.
You're missing the point. Australia simply doesn't have a hobo culture
per se, and the relative density of traffic being much less increases
your chance of being observed and detained.
The crews won't take kindly to your presence, either. I suspect they
really don't need the extra worry of a passenger.
> N_D
tony bailey
It fairly obviously is if you are a septic dh - who also need to be taught
that good old aussie swaggie!
Although a swaggie was always a far more honourable expression (and
occupation) than a hobo
Tony Bailey
David Bromage wrote in message ...
David Bromage
> It fairly obviously is if you are a septic dh - who also need to be taught
> that good old aussie swaggie!
Swaggies often rode in box vans, or sometimes even in the guards van.
Trains also travelled a bit slower then, so despite jointed rail, screw
couplers and fixed wheelbase wagons it wouldn't have been nearly as rough
as a container flat.
> Although a swaggie was always a far more honourable expression (and
> occupation) than a hobo
Also known as a bum. From the German bummel meaning ramble. Interestingly,
there is a German word Bummelzug meaning "slow train".
Cheers
David
HXP1
news:39517FBC...@nmit.vic.edu.au...
> Graeme Nitz wrote in part:
> > I don't think Dual gauge track could ever be classed as gauntlet (or
> > gantlet) track as the tracks have to be "Interleaved" according to my
> > remembrance of reading the AAR dictionary from years ago.
> Isn't the line form Somerton to Ford - gauntlet ?
Yes.
> I know the cement us duel
> gauge, but I had a impression that the broad and standard gauge has four
rails
> on common sleepers ????
Yes.
--
HXP1
(now with v6.08 software)
Railway Rasputin II
rgds
noff...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> is there a website or some information on riding freights in
> Australia ? I'd like to ride from Sydney to Brisbane. Tips on best
> places to jump on or off, types of wagons that are the best to ride,
> would be appreciated.
>
> thanks
>
> N_D
Ross (Goldie) Goldspink
Goldie
"David Bromage" <dbro...@fang.omni.com.au> wrote in message
news:LEd45.140$wf6.4...@news0.optus.net.au...
> noff...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > The option of catching the XPT sorta misses the point of jumping
> > freights in the first place, and would expose this happy camper to a
> > class of people he would not normally pay good money to be cooped up
> > with.
>
chris
have a employee pass to travel free.
Chris
David Johnson
> When and where did you last see a gaurds van on a goods train in Qld?
When I rode in one to Yaraka.
--
David Johnson
trai...@ozemail.com.au
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~trainman/
------------------------------------
These comments are made in a private
capacity and do not represent the
official view of State Rail.
C.O.W.S. Page 11.
HXP1
news:395218B0...@ozemail.com.au...
> "Ross (Goldie) Goldspink" wrote:
> > When and where did you last see a gaurds van on a goods train in Qld?
> When I rode in one to Yaraka.
When I rode in one from Hughendon to Winton.
Russell Norton
<noff...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:8is5tl$c6p$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Russell, I have the benefit of a some experience in this (have you ?),
It's funny how thirteen years of driving freight trains gives me absolutely
no desire to travel around the countryside on the back of one :)
> haven't gotten caught, and no, I probably won't get caught.
Best of luck.
> Tried the semis in Australia and I'm not really prepared to 'pay' for
> the privelege in the way the drivers seem to want.
Neither would I.
>I like my men about
> 100lbs lighter, preferably freshly showered, and willing to return the
> favour.
I like my men to be, well, women.
> Again, though, the point of hoboing isn't getting A-B, its the thrill
> of the ride.
Ride on trains in Australia and you also get the thrill of the chase.
> But nice to know you care.
Thankyou, I do.
Russ.
David Bromage
> When and where did you last see a gaurds van on a goods train in Qld?
Yaraka.
Cheers
David
Kim Saunders
What? Men in drag do it for you???
KimS
Russell Norton
Kim Saunders <ki...@tip.net.au> wrote in message
news:3952b3f3....@news.magna.com.au...
> >I like my men to be, well, women.
>
> What? Men in drag do it for you???
>
> KimS
LOL!
Noooo. That's why they install drag detectors :)
Russ.
John McCandless
David Bromage <dbro...@fang.omni.com.au> wrote in message
news:LEd45.140$wf6.4...@news0.optus.net.au...
> noff...@my-deja.com wrote:
> > The option of catching the XPT sorta misses the point of jumping
> > freights in the first place, and would expose this happy camper to a
> > class of people he would not normally pay good money to be cooped up
> > with.
>
> Go to Queensland and you can ride a goods train in the relative(?) comfort
> of a non-airconditioned guards van.
yes...but not many hobos would be wanting to go to Yaraka or Winton.......
--
John McCandless
Never play leapfrog with a unicorn...
Cloncurry Qld Au
www.geocities.com/johnmccandlessqld
Michael Kurkowski
<3952...@news.iprimus.com.au>:
>> Tried the semis in Australia and I'm not really prepared to 'pay' for
>> the privelege in the way the drivers seem to want.
>
>Neither would I.
>
>>I like my men about
>> 100lbs lighter, preferably freshly showered, and willing to return the
>> favour.
>
>I like my men to be, well, women.
Plenty of them down at Kings Cross (-:
--
Email: michael {DOT} kurkowski {AT} gunzel {DOT} net
(Any mail sent to usene...@gunzel.net
will be filed into the circular filing cabinet)
Web: http://www.netstra.com.au/~mk ICQ: 1459118 / T333.
Yahoo: VR_T333 Mobile: 0416-044-124
"VKC to all units, Warning to all units, there is a gunzel
on the loose, approach with EXTREME caution!"
noff...@my-deja.com
>
> >> Tried the semis in Australia and I'm not really prepared to 'pay'
for
> >> the privelege in the way the drivers seem to want.
> >
> >Neither would I.
> >
> >>I like my men about
> >> 100lbs lighter, preferably freshly showered, and willing to return
the
> >> favour.
> >
> >I like my men to be, well, women.
good for you. but some of the 'women' down at KX are not, well, women.
> Plenty of them down at Kings Cross (-:
and do you know what the term 'gunzel' means then, at least, in
stateside slang ? if u did, i guess u would hesitate to use it.
John Garaty
The last Yank I heard about that hopped a freight train was back in 1986. He
was caught between 2 containers in a high speed derailment on the Nullabor
Plain. They found him by smell 3 days later when cleaning up the derailment.
I passed the site on the Indian Pacific over a temporary track laid to get
around the pileup. It was a lonely spot to die.
It might be a "cheap thrill" for you, but if you wind up under a wagon some
poor railway worker has to come along and clean the mess. And while you lie
dead and uncaring, the rest of us fare paying riders are going nowhere
because of your selfishness. A fatality or serious injury out here seriously
disrupts all rail services.
Play it smart - pay a fare and be a whole lot safer.
Regards, John Garaty, train commuter & enthusiast (Now there's a real rare
combination) :-)
Railway Rasputin II <b...@fastlink.com.au> wrote in message
news:3951C641...@fastlink.com.au...
> Another temporary person.
>
> rgds
>
> noff...@my-deja.com wrote:
> >
> > is there a website or some information on riding freights in
> > Australia ? I'd like to ride from Sydney to Brisbane. Tips on best
> > places to jump on or off, types of wagons that are the best to ride,
> > would be appreciated.
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > N_D
> >
Brown Family
>First Monograph, Lesson One:
>
>Umm, life involves risks, children. If it didn't, we wouldn't value
>it. How many of you smoke, go over 110 occasionally, take an E etc ?
>You take your poison, I'll take mine . . .
>
No one here would advocate or encourage you to smoke, go over 110,
take an "E" (whatever that is!), bungee jump, train-surf or piss on
live overhead so whay the friggin' hell should we encourage you to
jump a rattler?. Some of the people on this n.g.are professional
railmen and women. They don't want to be picking up your bits and
pieces.
Listen sunshine, if you really wanna live dangerously, stand in front
of every photo-line on the next fan trip. If you live through that you
will really have something to tell your grand-children.
Les Brown
Freedom's just another word for nothin' left to lose.
Milva Lee
would have been, presumably, at the same time as the Darling Harbour branch
was duplicated. That was long ago, but HOW long??? Maybe the 1880s or
1890s, when quadruplication out of Sydney was being done, or maybe when the
Darling Harbour branch was extended to Rozelle, which from memory was about
1910. I'd love to have an accurate answer though, instead of my
speculation.
On other gauntlet track in NSW, there was some on the Sydney tramways (which
were more like light railways than tramways), notably on the bridge across
Harbord lagoon, and there is also gauntlet track of running lines in the
same direction over the weighbridges at Dulwich Hill and Sandgate. (I think
they are the locations.)
For trams, Lisbon and Amsterdam have numerous and spectacular examples of
gauntlet track. It's over canal bridges in Amsterdam and through tight
little streets on amazing grades in Lisbon. I would nominate these cities
as the gauntlet track capitals of the world. I'd love to be contradicted
though!!!
happy gauntlet track searching all......
David Bennetts wrote in message <394c...@newshost.pcug.org.au>...
>While looking through neety's most interesting website, I was surprised to
>find a photograph of gauntletted (sometimes known as interlaced) track in
>the tunnel under Broadway, on the former Darling Harbour line, now
>apparently known as the the Powerhouse sidings. Refer
>www.ozemail.com.au/~neety/trains/powerhouse.html
>
>I would be interested to know whether this is the only example of this
track
>now existing in NSW, and when and why it was constructed.
Eddie Oliver
>
> When the track under Braodway was gauntletted is a very good question. It
> would have been, presumably, at the same time as the Darling Harbour branch
> was duplicated.
No. It was when the line was electrified for use by 46 class, and there
was insufficient clearance for the overhead wiring except by aligning
both tracks along the middle of the tunnel (hence the gauntletting).
Deeg
wrote:
>When the track under Braodway was gauntletted is a very good question. ...
No answers so far concerning my question about the difference, if any,
between gauntletted track and interlaced track. You sound like a true
expert, so I'll try once more.
Don Galt
Seattle USA
Robert Lee
gauntlet track.
First, Eddie, thanks so much for that detail on when the Broadway tunnel was
gauntletted. I nad no idea it was so recent. Your posting though, raises
another question. I had always understood that the tunnel under Broadway
was the oldest railway structure in Australia, dating from 1855, and was
part of William Wallace's Sydney Railway Company Darling Harbour branch.
Wallace had persuaded the directors to build the branch so the SRC would
have access to navigable water. Now from my reading of the SRC Minutes, the
Darling Harbour branch was single track when built. Your posting suggests
that the tunnel was double track. THat being so, it's unlikely that the
tunnel is the 1855 structure, although I do realise there are plenty of
examples of doubel track tunnels and bridges being built on (initially at
least) single track lines. (Whitton's1862-3 Nepean bridge at Menangle is a
famous example, and there are many others in NSW.) So the question is, is
the tunnel under Broadway Wallace's 1855 SRC tunnel or not? By the way, Don
Hagarty tells me that Wallace built this tunnel by cut and cover, so it's
not really a tunnel according to some definitions (Don's primarily!).
This train of thought leads me to pose another question: what ARE the
oldest railway structures in Australia. Fairfield's down platform building
(1856) is the oldest station I know of. Parramatta, Penrith, Menangle,
Picton and SIngleton are all late 1850s or early 1860s passenger stations,
although the ones nearer Sydney have been much expanded. I THINK the
Liverpool good shed is from 1856, but is anyone certain of this. The
aforementioned Menangle bridge and its twin at Penrith are the oldest metal
bridges around, I'm certain of that. But I suspect for intact RAILWAYS, the
place to go is Victoria. I suspect that Geelong-Ballarat and
Melbourne-Echuca are still largely as built in the late 1850s and early
1860s, since they were on the extravagant side for the traffic offering then
(or any time since!). Comments would be VERY welcome here.
On the gauntlet versus interlaced, issue, Don, I think they are EXACTLY the
same thing, the difference between them being the same as the difference
between a point and a switch, a sleeper and a tie, a passenger station and a
depot.
One last question for the cognoscenti....was there gauntlet track on the
Newcastle tram system? I seem to have a vague memory of reading somewhere
that a tramway in reserved track and a coal line shared a reservation
(Wallsend line?). Were the two lines gauntletted?? Someone must know.
best wishes to everyone...
Robert
Deeg wrote in message ...
David Johnson
> This train of thought leads me to pose another question: what ARE the
> oldest railway structures in Australia. Fairfield's down platform building
> (1856) is the oldest station I know of. Parramatta, Penrith, Menangle,
> Picton and SIngleton are all late 1850s or early 1860s passenger stations,
> although the ones nearer Sydney have been much expanded.
What about Petersham?
Dave Proctor
> Robert Lee wrote:
>
> > This train of thought leads me to pose another question: what ARE the
> > oldest railway structures in Australia. Fairfield's down platform
building
> > (1856) is the oldest station I know of. Parramatta, Penrith, Menangle,
> > Picton and SIngleton are all late 1850s or early 1860s passenger
stations,
> > although the ones nearer Sydney have been much expanded.
>
> What about Petersham?
Needs a thermonuclear device detonated on the whole suburb.
Dave
Ben Munro
The only reason no one has already dropped one of those on Penrith is
that it's just too damn far away.
Dave Proctor
news:3961C8D4...@yahoo.com...
> > Needs a thermonuclear device detonated on the whole suburb.
> >
> > Dave
>
> The only reason no one has already dropped one of those on Penrith is
> that it's just too damn far away.
Nah, it is because we have a minister as our federal member.
Penrith sucks anyway, itnis a hole. Glenmore Park, on the other hand, is a
world of difference from Penrith.......
Dvae
Derick Wuen
David Johnson wrote in message <39619110...@ozemail.com.au>...
>Robert Lee wrote:
>
>> This train of thought leads me to pose another question: what ARE the
>> oldest railway structures in Australia. Fairfield's down platform
building
>> (1856) is the oldest station I know of. Parramatta, Penrith, Menangle,
>> Picton and SIngleton are all late 1850s or early 1860s passenger
stations,
>> although the ones nearer Sydney have been much expanded.
>
>What about Petersham?
>
>
>David Johnson
>trai...@ozemail.com.au
>http://www.ozemail.com.au/~trainman/
>------------------------------------
>These comments are made in a private
>capacity and do not represent the
>official view of State Rail.
>C.O.W.S. Page 11.
Petersham, though elegant, is not amongst the oldest. All of the original
and very early buildings and infrastructure along the main suburban stem
have been lost due to massive rebuildings.... duplication, quadruplication,
sextuplication, electrification, relocation, the original Petersham
included. Forunately we have Parramatta, Penrith, Fairfield, Menangle,
Picton, Zig-zag and the goods shed at Liverpool to keep us in touch with our
past.
Some years ago I compiled a list of surviving relics dating from 1870 or
before.Additions / corrections / comments welcome. There could be more
around Maitland, Morpeth and Newcastle; I think there is a stone culvert or
2 on the original alignment of the Picton-Mittagong section now carrying a
road; there might be some relics of small-scale works within the metrop
area. Also, a lot of early infrastructure was timber.
NSW Railway Relics to 1870
Year Location Description
1855 Sydney Stone arch under central square
1858 Fairfield Combined residence / Station down plat
1858 Liverpool Goods shed now cityrail office
1860 Parramatta Station blg down platform
1862 Menangle Iron bridge
1863 Knapsack Viaduct
1863 Menangle Combined residence / Station up plat
1863 Penrith Iron bridge
1863 Penrith Station blg down platform
1863 Picton Station blg up platform
1863 Picton Viaduct
1864 Mulgrave Residence was station ?
1864 Riverstone Station blg up platform ?
1864 Windsor Original station removed / reerected
1867 Bowral Station on down platform ?
1867 Medlow Bath Gatehouse #11
1867 Picton Tunnel
1867 Valley Heights Gatehouse #6
1867 Valley Heights Gatehouse #4
1868 Meryla Gatehouse
1868? Mittagong Smaller building on up platform
1869 Clarence Tunnel
1869 Goulburn Residence
1869 Goulburn Goods shed?
1869 Goulburn Station blg up platform
1869 Marulan Combined Residence / Station down plat
1869 Nth Goulburn Gatehouse
1869 Zig-Zag Half arch, top points
1869 Zig-Zag Tunnel
1869 Zig-Zag No2 Viaduct
1869 Zig-Zag Water supply dam
1869 Zig-Zag No1 Viaduct
1869 Zig-Zag No3 Viaduct
1869 Lithgow Part Johns St underbridge?
1870 Bowenfels Middle river viaduct
1870 Bowenfels Residence
1870 Bowenfels Gatehouse
1870 Bowenfels Station, down plat
1870 Emu Plains Combined Residence / Station down plat
1870 Marrangaroo Gatehouse
1870 Marrangaroo Viaduct
1870 Rookwood/Ainslie Mortuary receiving house, now church
1870 Sydney Mortuary receiving house
1870 Wallerawang Combined Residence / Station up plat
1870 Wallerawang Cox's River Viaduct
Robert Lee
Petersham is a spectacular building, but it's much later. About 1884, the
station building (which was for so many years the railway superannuation
office) was built in preparation for quadruplication of the main line when
the Cleveland Street tunnel was opened out. So it's not really that old.
There are many 1880s station buildings in the Sydney suburban area, although
Stanmore and Petersham are two of the best. But Petersham's present
passenger station dates from the 1920s. Sydenham and Tempe aren't bad
either, but you need to look carefully to work out the original
configuration.
Robert Lee
Thank you for this wonderful posting. I'm so pleased someone has done this
work. Just a few questions: (1) Where is Meryla???? That's a new one to
me! (2) Are you sure the structures you mention on the Richmond line are
original? It was built to very light standards and then rebuilt in 1878.
I'd assumed the surviving buildings date from then, not construction, but I
could be wrong (I often am). (3) I didn't realise that Mittagong still had
its original building - WOW. I recently discovered an account (in the SMH)
of an orgy in Mittagong to celebrate the line's opening in 1867. Now I know
where all the booze was drunk, etc, etc. By the way, John Whitton died
about 200 metres away. (4) Isn't Cox's River viaduct wonderful!!! and
finally (5) having invited Victorians to take over this posting, why haven't
they????? Come on Victorians, tell us about your oldest structures!
Thanks again, Derick!
best wishes,
Robert
Derick Wuen wrote in message <3962...@iridium.webone.com.au>...
David Johnson
> Derrick,
>
> Thank you for this wonderful posting. I'm so pleased someone has done this
> work. Just a few questions: (1) Where is Meryla???? That's a new one to
> me!
Me too. Could it be Murulla between Muswellbrook and Murrurundi?
Derick Wuen
Robert Lee wrote in message <_QF85.29412$N4.11...@ozemail.com.au>...
>Derrick,
>
>Thank you for this wonderful posting. I'm so pleased someone has done this
>work.
Beware: its like the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy.... entertaining but
not necessarily accurate.
Comments on my own list.... Fairfield surely 1856 not 1858; Liverpool goods
shed on track layout diagram dated 1858, but probably there at opening in
1856.
ARHS Bulletin 1955 on Sydney-Parramatta opening has map of Sydney yard
showing (ever so slighltly, but ever so clearly) that the single track to
Darling Harbour was offset to the right of the tunnel (facing tunnel from
Sydney Yard end) insinuating the stone arch was indeed constructed to
accommodate double track. Most major structures on rest of "system" were
constructed to double track standards, even though track was single from
Newtown to Parramatta on opening day.
The 1855 structure gauge specified a 14 foot 6 inch (4.42 m) overhead
clearance, clearly a problem when electrification with its 16 foot 6 inch
(5.03m) clearance requirement came along in 1956. Fortunately for us the
stone arch is semi-circular, not "flat", and thus gauntlet track rather than
demolition was a solution.
1867-68 stone culverts in Picton - Mittagong section near Colo Vale on
original 1 in 33 alignment.
Couridjah (Picton Lakes) had 1867-68 stone pumphouse.still in existence in
1967.
>Just a few questions: (1) Where is Meryla???? That's a new one to
>me!
On original line near Werai, main south. Line deviated, leaving "whitton"
gatehouse in the middle of a paddock. Can be seen on down side of line from
current trains.
> (2) Are you sure the structures you mention on the Richmond line are
>original? It was built to very light standards and then rebuilt in 1878.
Note question marks. Windsor original station building was demolished and
re-erected as a private dwelling some distance away; Riverstone and Mulgrave
ORIGINAL buildings in existence in 1964. Riverstone building beside the 1878
one; Mulgrave building bumped from station to residence status. See ARHS
bulletin 1964. I have not travelled the line in many years, and
electrification and modernisation might have done these in.
>I'd assumed the surviving buildings date from then, not construction, but I
>could be wrong (I often am).
> (3) I didn't realise that Mittagong still had
>its original building - WOW. I recently discovered an account (in the SMH)
>of an orgy in Mittagong to celebrate the line's opening in 1867. Now I
know
>where all the booze was drunk, etc, etc. By the way, John Whitton died
>about 200 metres away.
What from the cumulative effects of the many opening ceremonies he must have
attended?
The original building is sort of hidden under the footbridge, but if you
look at it closely you can see its very untypical of other existing old NSW
buildings, more in common with the long-gone buildings in the
Sydney-Parramatta section than the style Whitton started with Campbelltown
and Parramatta. And in my opinion the later buildings had more pleasing
proportions.
> (4) Isn't Cox's River viaduct wonderful!!!
Its a crying shame that its so tucked away from view and "unphotographable".
Has anyone taken reasonable shots of this structure?
> and
>finally (5) having invited Victorians to take over this posting, why
haven't
>they????? Come on Victorians, tell us about your oldest structures!
>
Yes I would like to see a list of "bluestone beauties".
SA and Tas probably also have some relics tucked away.
Robert Lee
Derick Wuen wrote in message <3963...@iridium.webone.com.au>...
>>
>Comments on my own list.... Fairfield surely 1856 not 1858; Liverpool goods
>shed on track layout diagram dated 1858, but probably there at opening in
>1856.
I agree with you there. Fairfield must be 1856 and I suspect that the
Liverpool goods shed was 1856 too.
>ARHS Bulletin 1955 on Sydney-Parramatta opening has map of Sydney yard
>showing (ever so slighltly, but ever so clearly) that the single track to
>Darling Harbour was offset to the right of the tunnel (facing tunnel from
>Sydney Yard end) insinuating the stone arch was indeed constructed to
>accommodate double track. Most major structures on rest of "system" were
>constructed to double track standards, even though track was single from
>Newtown to Parramatta on opening day.
That's a relief, so it is the original tunnel (or bridge covered with dirt
as some would have it!), at least at the Darling Harbour end. I'm not
surprised it was built for two tracks since, as you say, the rest of the
line was.
>1867-68 stone culverts in Picton - Mittagong section near Colo Vale on
>original 1 in 33 alignment.
Yes, I've seen them, and, if we are real picky, I think it was 1 in 30.
>On original line near Werai, main south. Line deviated, leaving "whitton"
>gatehouse in the middle of a paddock. Can be seen on down side of line from
>current trains.
A very attractive gatehouse too, if a bit isolated since Werai closed.
>Note question marks. Windsor original station building was demolished and
>re-erected as a private dwelling some distance away; Riverstone and
Mulgrave
>ORIGINAL buildings in existence in 1964. Riverstone building beside the
1878
>one; Mulgrave building bumped from station to residence status. See ARHS
>bulletin 1964. I have not travelled the line in many years, and
>electrification and modernisation might have done these in.
Very interesting. I didn't realise they were original. I'm like you in my
relationship with the Richmond line. It gave me so much pleasure as a
teenager in the 1960s riding the CPHs and S class on LUB sets, that I have't
been on it for more than 30 years. I just don't have the heart to look at
it now (and I live in Sydney!). I think I'd find it too depressing, like
meeting an old flame who's gone to seed.
>I recently discovered an account (in the SMH)
>>of an orgy in Mittagong to celebrate the line's opening in 1867. Now I
>know
>>where all the booze was drunk, etc, etc. By the way, John Whitton died
>>about 200 metres away.
>
>What from the cumulative effects of the many opening ceremonies he must
have
>attended?
No, not from all the opening ceremonies - he was 78 when he died. In fact
John Whitton normally did not attend opening ceremonies. He avoided them
like the plague. THe freeloaders always included his many critics in the
parliament, who went there to enjoy the fruits and grains of the land
(mostly fermented and/or distilled) at the taxpayers' expense. Whitton
though stayed away, not because he was shy but becasue he hated so many of
the guests. He did drink though. His estate included a very respectable
cellar indeed. (How do I know all this??? Time for a shameless piece of
self-promotion..... I've just finished a biography of Whitton, soon to be
published by the ARHS.)
>
>> (4) Isn't Cox's River viaduct wonderful!!!
>Its a crying shame that its so tucked away from view and
"unphotographable".
>Has anyone taken reasonable shots of this structure?
I haven't seen any for ages. There's a well-known shot with a 17 class on a
down goods train on it, but it was taken about 1870! Nothing since!!!
THere are good shots around of the two viaducts at Farmer's Creek though.
(I've even taken a few myself, in the bygone era when there were trains
worth photographing.) A problem with Cox's River is that the environs have
become very industrial over the last 30 years or so. Looking at it from the
comfort of the MBE on the Clandulla trip, I think a shot would be possible
of a down train that would not be too bad - at least not too many wires and
no power station. Another problem is light. The Whitton bridge is on the
south side of the current bridge, so most of the year the light would be
poor. By comparison the old bridge is on the north side at Farmer's Creek.
I hope these comments inspire some photographers to get out there and do it,
and show it to us in Digest. Pity about the trains nowadays though!
>Yes I would like to see a list of "bluestone beauties".
Geelong and Ballarat stations aren't bluestone, I think, but they sure are
interesting, dare I say more interesting than most of Whitton's stations, so
come on Victorians! You can do it!
>SA and Tas probably also have some relics tucked away.
Let's hear about them....
Derick Wuen
Lithgow stone underbridge is over Johns St, not James St.
Robert Lee wrote in message ...