the meaning of gunzel
<Type your name here>
the fact that in the olden days of rail fanning the old guys who used
chase the steam trains called the new railfans that were only interested
in the diesels "gunzels". In hebrew the word gunzel means goose, there
fore the new, inexperianced railfans were gooses or silly for hat they
did?
what do you think
Ted Gay
"<Type your name here>" <cs...@netlink.com.au> wrote in message
news:3AD70E...@netlink.com.au...
It proves that you shouldn't believe everything you read in/hear on the
media. Once all rail fans were hebrew speaking Jews? the mind boggles!
Was the program a repeat from 1st April?
Ted
Tell
ANYBODY, well most who do not work as a rail employee
are GUNZELS for the purposes of this group.
Sure, I/we/they hate that tag, ...right fellas.!
Rail buff, rail enthusiast, rail fan, rail historian,
volunteer preserved rail worker, rail web site manager,
photo taker of trains, aus.rail contributor, aus.rail
lurker (plenty of those) :).
We/they are all GUNZELS.!
Some of the comments I have received over the years
have been less than complimentary, but I dont give a
shit, hey who cares, we do what we want to do.
....Tell
David McLoughlin
> did? What do you think?
According to the MTUT FAQ:
GUNZEL - a transit, especially train fanatic. GUNZEL. According to Bob
Merchant, editor of the Australian enthusiasts' journal "Trolley Wire,"
the term was first used by Sydney Tramway Museum members in the early
1960s to describe certain enthusiasts in the state of Victoria
(Australia) who took their hobby a bit too seriously. The term comes
from the film "The Maltese Falcon" in which Elisha Cook Jnr, played
Wilmer, Sydney Greenstreet's twisted gun-slinger (gunsel in American
gangster slang). The film has been described as one in which there
wasn't one decent person in the whole film. The gunsel in the film was
what we would describe today as a "Gunzel", a bit thick to say the
least. Before Puffing Billy (a heritage steam train in the ranges
outside Melbourne) issued their "Gunzel Pass" a few years back, their
president, Phil Avard, checked with the STM as to the meaning of the
word and its origin. Phil, being a bit of a film buff, understood
immediately and the pass was issued. Originally, one did not call a
person a Gunzel to their face as it was a bit derogatory. The term
Gunzel in the Australian sense was first used by Dick Jones, Don
Campbell and Bill Parkinson, all of whom are still members of the STM.
The term has since been picked up by New Zealand, UK and some US
railfans. See also ANORAK.
Kerry
Myself and friends used to call ourselves train fans. Gunzels were kids who
didn't fit well into the social scene. They generally had out of date "short
back and sides" haircuts. They had the look that they were dressed by their
mothers. They were often physically different, over or under weight, oily
skin, pimples or wore thick glasses. They also didn't seem to care that the
public knew that they had a love affair with railways. They would also sit
on railway stations with notebook and pencil taking loco numbers. They were,
in a way, social out casts, eccentrics.
Back in the mid 60's you generally didn't make it public that you were
interested in trains. If you did, you'd get some weird looks. You certainly
didn't mention it to females of the same age you were romantically
interested in. In those days trains were considered dirty, smokey, noisy
things. They were old, worn out and slow. You certainly didn't use them when
you could drive or get a lift in a motor car. You went everywhere in your
Morris Minor, VW, Ford Zephyr or Holden. It was still considered OK to use
trains to go to work, but that's all..
With the help of a teacher who was a railfan from the UK, we started the
Jannali Boys High, School Boys Railway Club. We only had a few meetings
before it was abandoned. Kids with no interest in trains would turn up to
the meetings, just to heckle. They called us trainiacs. The whole school
thought we were a joke. The social pressure forced us into hiding. But the
gunzels didn't care, they continued their public life of loco spotting
unperturbed.
As steam disappeared, the rail system modernized, and the public became
nostalgic over steam trains it has become acceptable to admit to being
interested in railways. If you went to Europe in the mid sixties, you went
there to take pictures of churches and castles. If you were to open a photo
album full of pictures of steam trains and railway equipment on your return,
your (non rail fan) friends would probably tie you up and send you off to
the mad house.
Kerry Whitfield
ke...@capebyron.com
"David McLoughlin" <davemcl*PISSOFFSPAMMERS*@iprolink.co.nzzzzz> wrote in
message news:3AD91A...@iprolink.co.nzzzzz...
John Coyle
>
>Some anonymous poster wrote:
Many thanks for explaining the word Gunzel. Can anyone tell me HOW the number
"412" cecame so important? I understand that it is Victorian and dates to at
least the 1960's. If Dick Jones of the STM has an E-Mail address, and belongs to
this newsservice, I would like to hear from him! I lost contact with Dick, when
I moved to Qld back in 1988.
David Johnson
> In article <3AD91A...@iprolink.co.nzzzzz>, David McLoughlin says...
> >
> >Some anonymous poster wrote:
>
> Many thanks for explaining the word Gunzel. Can anyone tell me HOW the number
> "412" cecame so important? I understand that it is Victorian and dates to at
> least the 1960's. If Dick Jones of the STM has an E-Mail address, and belongs to
> this newsservice, I would like to hear from him! I lost contact with Dick, when
> I moved to Qld back in 1988.
It is the charge for over-acting, as per St George and the Dragon-Net.
ie "Charge him on a 412." "What's a 412?" "Overacting."
--
David Johnson
trai...@ozemail.com.au
http://www.ozemail.com.au/~trainman/
------------------------------------
These comments are made in a private
capacity and do not represent the
official view of State Rail.
C.O.W.S. Page 11.
Ted Gay
"John Coyle" <John_...@newsranger.com> wrote in message
news:gynC6.7051$FY5.5...@www.newsranger.com...
> Many thanks for explaining the word Gunzel. Can anyone tell me HOW the
number
> "412" cecame so important? I understand that it is Victorian and dates to
at
> least the 1960's. If Dick Jones of the STM has an E-Mail address, and
belongs to
> this newsservice, I would like to hear from him! I lost contact with Dick,
when
> I moved to Qld back in 1988.
>
>
came over to the cab to say g'day, I remarked that he appeared to have the
world on his shoulders. He replied that he was writing the Easter
timetable, 'nough said.
Ted
Chris Brownbill
> >
> > Many thanks for explaining the word Gunzel. Can anyone tell me HOW the number
> > "412" cecame so important? I understand that it is Victorian and dates to at
> > least the 1960's. If Dick Jones of the STM has an E-Mail address, and belongs to
> > this newsservice, I would like to hear from him! I lost contact with Dick, when
> > I moved to Qld back in 1988.
>
> It is the charge for over-acting, as per St George and the Dragon-Net.
>
> ie "Charge him on a 412." "What's a 412?" "Overacting."
>
> --
> David Johnson
It is no doubt a co-incidence, but appropriate nevertheless, that since the introduction to Victoria a few years ago of the British style road classification and numbering scheme, the road from Belgrave to Gembrook which parallels the Puffing Billy railway is identified as - C 412.
Barry Campbell
"" wrote:
I recently heard the word "gunsel" used to describe an inexperienced
horseman. This was used by an American (Pat Parelli - if you are interested
in horses you will know who I mean) in a story describing his early days
working with horses and livestock in the US.
Just to be difficult.
Barry Campbell
Barry Campbell
John Coyle wrote:
>
> Many thanks for explaining the word Gunzel. Can anyone tell me HOW the number
> "412" cecame so important? I understand that it is Victorian and dates to at
> least the 1960's.
<snip>
As another poster says, 412 is the charge for overacting in "St George and the
Dragonet" by Stan Freberg. I first remember seeing it referred to in railfan circles
in the infamous New South Ales Railway Digest of about 1969.
BTW, the full collection of all 15 Stan Freberg shows is available on CD. . I got it
for a 50th birthday present and his satire is as fresh as ever. The true greats
never age.
Barry Campbell
Al
> interested in trains. If you did, you'd get some weird looks. You certainly
> didn't mention it to females of the same age you were romantically
> interested in. In those days trains were considered dirty, smokey, noisy
> things. They were old, worn out and slow.
What's changed?? The same trains that were used in the 60's are still used in
the Hunter Valley.
Paul News
first time I heard the term used was by Peter Kahn back in the early 1970s.
I think the 412 thing came to the fore about the time of the publication of
the New South Ales Digest in the late 1960s. Is this publication now a
collectors' item? It was definitely based on Stan Freberg's "St George and
the Dragonet" which dates from 1964. I have played it several times on my
community radio programs in Melbourne.
There was also a wedding party using W2 412 and a railway enthusiast
association in Victoria has a 412 post office box number.
Is all this a 1960s enthusiast thing? Do the younger enthusiasts have their
own "cult" things?
Our hobby provides a wonderful social observation and perhaps one day
someone will write about the movement itself. There is a good book called
"Platform Souls; the trainspotter as a Twentieth-Century Hero' by Nicholas
Whittaker. ISBN 0 575 40011 0.
A newspaper review said the book would bring it all back to "anyone who will
admit to having a childhood brush with this now derided hobby"!
A fascinating read!
Paul in Melbourne.
Eddie Oliver
> I think the 412 thing came to the fore about the time of the publication of
> the New South Ales Digest in the late 1960s.
412 became popular mid-60s; it was firmly established well before Ales
Digest, although probably largely initiated by much the same people as
produced Ales Digest.
The number 1080 was also in wide use, for reasons which escape me now.
It is strange that 412 has "stuck" while 1080 has not.
> There was also a wedding party using W2 412 and a railway enthusiast
> association in Victoria has a 412 post office box number.
And many other very visible references, e.g. photostops at
mileage/kilometre post 412 and tour trains numbered 412. Mileage 412 on
the Walgett line (near Bugilbone Bore, if I recall correctly) was a
particularly famed location for a photostop, since the milepost was the
only distinguishing feature in the whole landscape.
IIRC there was once a tour for which the fare was set at $4.12. Strange
to think that it would probably now cost more like $412.
robson
>
> > I think the 412 thing came to the fore about the time of the
> > publication of the New South Ales Digest in the late 1960s.
>
> 412 became popular mid-60s; it was firmly established well before
> Ales Digest, although probably largely initiated by much the same
> people as produced Ales Digest.
Werai, that popular Short South photo location, was Postcode 2412
There is a 412 mile post on the Glenreagh - Dorrigo line.
A Zimbabwe 15A class Garratt was numbered 412.
There is often reference to 412 in U.S. motion pictures. This may have
originated with a 1950s comedy sketch where performers were in breach of
Rule 412 - over acting.
Paul Nicholson
magazines of the era.
Anyone have similar recollections?
Paul in Melbourne
Neil O'Connor
> Can anyone tell me HOW the number "412" became so important?
I missed something... why is 412 important? I have not heard of it before.
Geoff Lillico
412 - Over acting
1080 - Devouring maidens out of season
both Stan Freeburg.
--
Geoff Lillico
"Paul Nicholson" <pnic...@bigpond.net.au> wrote in message
news:sFHD6.1759$ff.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Adam Dunning
being 'over enthusiastic'. Supposedly some dictionary has the definition of
Gunzel as being 'someone who is over enthusiastic about something', so 412
just stuck.
Adam
"Geoff Lillico" <gli...@msn.com.au> wrote in message
news:iLID6.7080$482....@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
Gnome412
news:sFHD6.1759$ff.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
Not 412, but I recall "gunzel" appearing in a Mad magazine from the
mid-1950's. In the context it seemed to be a despised or inferior person.
Rgds
Paul Nicholson
I knew there was a Mad magzine connection somewhere but the 412 thing
definitely comes from Stan Freberg.
Paul
"Gnome412" <gnom...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Dv0E6.5311$EQ3.1...@ozemail.com.au...
David Johnson
<gli...@msn.com.au> wrote:
>IIRC
>412 - Over acting
>1080 - Devouring maidens out of season
>
>both Stan Freeburg.
Not Quite.
412 - Over-Acting
502 - Devouring Maidens Out Of Season
903 - Stealing Tarts
David Bromage
>
> On Fri, 20 Apr 2001 07:46:29 +1000, "Geoff Lillico"
> <gli...@msn.com.au> wrote:
>
> >IIRC
> >412 - Over acting
> >1080 - Devouring maidens out of season
> >
> >both Stan Freeburg.
>
> Not Quite.
>
> 412 - Over-Acting
> 502 - Devouring Maidens Out Of Season
> 903 - Stealing Tarts
And to dispell another myth, the 412 joke has nothing to do with Stan
Freeberg. It's much older than that.
Cheers
David
Mark Bau
dbro...@fang.omni.com.au wrote on 6/11/01 5:38 PM:
And all of this reuse of 412 etc. was an attempt by up and coming wannabe
gunzels to associate themselves favorably with a group of older gunzels.
Hero worshipping broken down smelly bachelors is about as bad as you can
get.
Mark