AM radio outside the broadcasting services band
Bearcave75
called WorldAudio is seeking shareholders to help it build a 32-station
commercial radio network across Australia, starting with their West Sydney
station Radio 2 - 1611 AM.
WorldAudio is taking advantage of Section 40 of the Broadcasting Services Act
which permits anyone to buy a commercial radio licence for just $2400. Only
catch is that you cannot use this licence in conjunction with a transmitter
apparatus licence that is assigned a frequency inside the broadcasting services
bands (BSB) which covers FM 87.5-108 MHz and AM 522-1602 kHz.
So WorldAudio will be using AM frequencies 1611 and above as for some reason,
these frequencies are outside the BSB even though frequencies up to 1629 can be
heard on most standard AM radios. An increasing number of clock radios (along
with some other types of radios) also extend the AM band to 1700 kHz, so
setting up a commercial AM station is still a real possibility in spite of the
ABA's completion of the LAP process for all AM and FM frequencies inside the
BSB.
That said, Mark Day has questioned whether it is a worthwhile investment,
commenting that the frequencies above the regular AM band (which ends at 1602
kHz) provide lousy signals as all are restricted to 400 watts of power, much
lower than the minimum 5kW enjoyed by commercial AM stations inside the BSB.
He also casts doubt about listeners tuning in, saying that these stations will
not lure youth listeners who have not grown up with AM, nor will they get the
older listeners because they rarely shift off their regular station (although
2GB has most recently demonstrated this is not always the case).
I'd be interested to hear if anyone has had a successful run operating one of
these stations. After all, Mark Day is putting a radio group under the grill
that wants to raise capital from the share market and become the next DMG.
Mark Day is pointing out all the limitations of Non-BSB AM radio broadcasting
so he can question the credibility of the World Audio prospectus, whereas I
suspect most operators of these services are small niche operators, each with
their own distinct business model.
From Justin Christie.
Ian MacRae
totally in your last paragraph, Justin. Pity Mark Day didn't
understand that.
Ian MacRae
bearc...@aol.com (Bearcave75) wrote in message news:<20020326110120...@mb-fb.aol.com>...
John Grimes
under are also limited to only 3khz Max audio - In other words it sounds
like a telephone !!!
I don't think I would be investing in them - A lot of fingers are being
burnt with them
now !!
The Runner
m*star
>
> Narrowband Area Service (NAS) licences , which these stations operate
> under are also limited to only 3khz Max audio - In other words it sounds
> like a telephone !!!
Is this true???
Marcus Fitz-Gerald
Brisbane
NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS
mcf_ql...@hotmail.com
:voltare:-:matt2:
of $#!^'s) this is what i don't like, now there forcing NAS stations to
sound like crap. pathetic. you have to pay through your ring holejust so
you can hear am in wide bandwidth (50hz - 9Khz) it only cost the
manufacturer ~ $0.20 to replace the filter.or add a cap
Ian MacRae
Not true. As far as Radio Two is concerned we are licenced to 6khz
which would only adversely affect "fine" music such as classical at
the outer reaches of the high and low frequencies.
Also...under section 40 of the Broadcasting Act we have a full
commercial licence.
Ian MacRae
Hot Hits
> m*star <mcf_ql...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<3CA1BB...@hotmail.com>...
> > John Grimes wrote:
> > >
> > > Narrowband Area Service (NAS) licences , which these stations operate
> > > under are also limited to only 3khz Max audio - In other words it sounds
> > > like a telephone !!!
>
> which would only adversely affect "fine" music such as classical at
> the outer reaches of the high and low frequencies.
>
> Also...under section 40 of the Broadcasting Act we have a full
> commercial licence.
>
I am pretty sure that these licences are to 6khz which would make them
impossible for AM Stereo. Inovonics make a special processor for this
purpose-to keep them at 6Khz.
The Off band licences are used in Australia for completely different
purposes to that of the United States. In the US it is the extended
band or X band (just like it was when they extended it from 1500 to
1600 in the 1930's or 1940's- (this was partly due to the idea of
total Clear Channel Frequencies at 50000 watts). The US treat the X
band as an addition to their regular band with incentives for
broadcasters to use technology and broadcast in stereo as one of the
conditions of being awarded a frequency.
For example if WINS was to move from 1010 to 1660 they would have to
broadcast in AM Stereo BUT they can also simulcast on 1010 for a
number of years then offer for sale their old 1010 frequency for say
US$30 mil and then stay on 1660.They must relinquish their 1010
frequency after a certain period but this involves a sale not a hand
back of the licence. With more and more manufacturers of Car Audio now
making radios to 1710 for the US and GM announcing DAB, FM Stereo/AM
Stereo X band radios standard for their cars and Chrysler now
following that lead it wont be long and alot of people will have
access to the X Band and think it has always been there.
But in Australia it appears that because these are Narrow Band and
Narrowcast it takes alot more effort to get going. Stillthe majority
of licence holders appear to be able to afford the licence but not the
set up costs to get a very efficient station going. I must admit some
have been very successful but AM radio to do it right does require
alot of research in soil composition, earthmat construction mast
height etc. Realisticly speaking a great mast would cost about
$50000.00 plus set up plus land plus transmitter and it goes on.
Being on 400 watts (remember most cap city stations on AM are on 10000
watts with switching) in a city like Sydney you would have more chance
of hearing the station in Brisbane at night than in Sydney through the
day if you did not have a great Mast Farm. remember AM has problems
with man made noise. You could find it very hard to listen in an
office especially with computers on.
But I feel these licences do give a great benefit for local speciality
broadcasting just for a local area. With a 50km radius they are great
for local people to "do away with the networks" and have a proper
commercial local low powered station in their area and if done right
sound fine. As for radio 2 I don't know if we need more networked
programming I would have thought less.
I read the prospectus off the net and as per the Auditors report could
not understand why the company trying to raise the funds has no record
of tax returns I would have thought this was part of being a good
corporate citizen. I think they are really having a second go at
something that failed last year.
m*star
> But I feel these licences do give a great benefit for local speciality
> broadcasting just for a local area. With a 50km radius they are great
> for local people to "do away with the networks" and have a proper
> commercial local low powered station in their area and if done right
> sound fine. As for radio 2 I don't know if we need more networked
> programming I would have thought less.
Absolutely great for "getting rid of the networks", Brad Smart is doing
pretty good with 4DB in Dalby and in a town like that, there probably
isin't as much man made noise.
Emerald will be very interesting directly up against DMG's 4HI, but they
will make a difference. Where's Mervyn Bunt these days hey?
> I read the prospectus off the net and as per the Auditors report could
> not understand why the company trying to raise the funds has no record
> of tax returns I would have thought this was part of being a good
> corporate citizen. I think they are really having a second go at
> something that failed last year.
Alarm bells should be going off about that, they did for me,
It might only be 400 watts, but surely you can get the gain up to "cheat
up" the power?
John Grimes
John Grimes
considered a true broadcasting service !!
The Runner
From the ACA Web site.....
The design of typical AM radio receivers requires the transmitted signal
to be an amplitude modulated double side band, full carrier transmission
and the assignment criteria are, therefore, designed with this in mind.
For the purpose of maintaining consistency with other services in the
band, the transmitter power for MF NAS has been limited to 400 watts and
the necessary bandwidth limited to 6 kHz. As a result, the performance
and grade of service that may be expected is less than that of
broadcasting services operating in the broadcasting services bands. The
audio modulating frequency input needs to be limited, considering the
applicable 6 kHz necessary bandwidth and 9 kHz channel spacing. This
should result in the following maximum audio modulation levels:
at 3 kHz, 3 decibels (dB) below the maximum;
at 4.5 kHz, 23 dB below the maximum;
at greater than 4.5 kHz, at least 23 dB below the maximum.
An MF NAS, therefore, cannot be considered a true broadcasting service.
Rather, it is a service whose technical operating parameters are similar
to those of two-way radio services. This means that the resulting
service will not provide either the same audio quality of program or the
same coverage distance as broadcasting services.
John Grimes
Once again from the ACA web site
Assignment Identifier Frequency Emission Designator Licence No. Client
No.
1133994- 2204853 1.6110000 MHz 6K00A3E 1131803 1212686
1212686 is the ACA client number of Worldaudio Communications Pty Ltd
The important part here is the emission designator, 6K00A3E, 6K is the
channel bandwidth, A3E means Amplitude Modulation,Double Sideband. To
fit double sideband AM into a 6 kHz bandwidth the maximum audio
frequency is 3kHz ie. The same as a telephone.
For those interested in going into the NAS business, this is how you do
it. First purchase your NAS licence from the ACA (Cost around $2,400).
You then can apply to the ABA to run any type of service you like,
Community, Ethnic, Narrowcast or Section 40 Commercial, BUT whatever
type of licence the ABA gives, you must still meet the ACA technical
specs which are the same as those for 2-way radios.
Ian, if you have been told you will be transmitting 6khz audio (12khz
bandwidth) you have either been misinformed or you misunderstood. I
suggest you have a chat to your technical advisors.
The Runner
p tate
Ladies time to put this news group straight on these NAS licenses.
First
The bandwidth is limited to about 3khz yes-but not many observe
this.This is why it is called a "Narrowband Area Service" as apposed
to a "broadcast service".
An interseting thing here is that the internal IF stages of the
"average" am radio lobs your audio off at 3khz any way.This has
happened since day one.The only improvment on this was AM stereo
recievers that could hear the full 7khz that AM broadcast stations put
out. Don't forget along with the extra audio came more crackle
too!!!!!!!!
The power is 400watts this obtains "satisfactory" level of signal at
10kms radius. This level is where it is "deemed" ok to push over noise
and punch through into buildings to peoples radios. This is straight
off the broadcast standard for AM stations. However if you are either
a radio nut or just lucky to have a good aerial or radio in your car
or posession you will HEAR them upto 30 kms until you really get the
shits with drop outs.Other average numnuts don't give a shit or are in
denial of being ripped off by a salesman at the local car sound shop.
Now the above ASSUMES a few things like--
NO one is on the next 9 khz up from you
and it is DAYTIME
REASONS ARE
In broadcast standard services in the SAME LAP would be 45khz(don't
quote me) apart to stop interference with each other within the SAME
service area like Brisbane etc etc.Also the freq would only be used
about three times Australia wide. An example would be
Brisbane/Adelaide/Perth.
These NAS license don't observe this rule so the next person 9 khz up
or down from you can only be 30 kms away from you.Don't forget the
next step 18khz can be or any other freq can be parked across the road
from you.
There is no radio on this planet that will separate two services 18khz
apart if they are basicly next to each other.(ie the same suburb etc)
Night time these freqs are reflected from the d layer in the
atmosphere which becomes favourable at night. So a service in Sydney
on the SAME freq can come romping in and play havic with your fringe
coverage. Depending on the efficency of your setup it could totally
stuff your night time audience.In addition to this the lower
end(1611/1620/1629)that is favoured by operators is assigned to
about-38 yes 38 different operators. Good luck at night boys when
people are home not at work where the boss likes the local FM station.
Also the use of shorten aerials for these stations means that the
angles your signal levels the aerial is usually high and lends itself
to this type of skip more so then low angles for local coverage.
This brings me to cost.
To put up and aerial that is "efficient" for these NAS services is not
done out of pocket change.The mast should be 44meters high so as to
not need loading.Be in the midle of a football size field so as to not
stuff up peoples tv etc in the immediate area.And spend a shit load on
putting copper radials in the ground for a resonable earth mat.In
addition to all this you would be in need of all sorts of council
permits and fees to put it up due to size.
Remember I siad EFFICIENT
You can cut corners with loading coils etc and put up a "T" or the not
so liked by the ACA inverted "L".
And even do a deal with some one who has a block of factorys and put
it on the roof.
These all work but do have various limitations(i will not go into them
here).
remeber you MUST use a vertical polarized aerial system as this is on
the license as a condition.
If you were smart this is what you need for maximizing local coverage
so you would do it.
At the end of the day these licenses are also operated on a "secondary
basis" which means in short, if by notification to the ACA from other
international authorities your causing interference to a primary
service you will be made to change your operating conditions.These are
navigation beacons in NZ for example.
You basisly don't have any "rights" like a broadcast service does.They
have permanent tenure on the dial etc etc.
To round out my opinion on these services.
They should be operated as they are SMALL radio stations.The current
hopes of the World Audio boys is welcomed as it puts the spot light on
these licenses.In doing this the availablity of recievers etc will
jump due to market forces.This will have a double edge sword effect as
when they obtian some market penetration the BIG GUNS will act.
If you have read the prospectus I hope you have concidered things
carefully before you jump on board.I wish them well but do say these
licenses are not meant for BIG GUN radio interests. I do have concerns
over the section 40 license they say covers them nationally whilst
this is correct when local program is broken away to this is
technically another service license.
The percentages the ABA accepts is another grey area.
I'm available for further info if any one wishes on my email.
Regards to all,
p tate
Hot Hits
> This is the meaty bit - Note the comments about NAS licences NOT being
> considered a true broadcasting service !!
>
> The Runner
>
> From the ACA Web site.....
>
> The design of typical AM radio receivers requires the transmitted signal
> to be an amplitude modulated double side band, full carrier transmission
> and the assignment criteria are, therefore, designed with this in mind.
> For the purpose of maintaining consistency with other services in the
> band, the transmitter power for MF NAS has been limited to 400 watts and
> the necessary bandwidth limited to 6 kHz. As a result, the performance
> and grade of service that may be expected is less than that of
> broadcasting services operating in the broadcasting services bands. The
> audio modulating frequency input needs to be limited, considering the
> applicable 6 kHz necessary bandwidth and 9 kHz channel spacing. This
> should result in the following maximum audio modulation levels:
>
> at 3 kHz, 3 decibels (dB) below the maximum;
>
> at 4.5 kHz, 23 dB below the maximum;
>
> at greater than 4.5 kHz, at least 23 dB below the maximum.
>
> An MF NAS, therefore, cannot be considered a true broadcasting service.
> Rather, it is a service whose technical operating parameters are similar
> to those of two-way radio services. This means that the resulting
> service will not provide either the same audio quality of program or the
> same coverage distance as broadcasting services.
>
broadcast licence. I think people may be presuming that these are but
one thing I noted was that they may be recalled without notice and the
ACA can reallocate these for any purpose they feel. You could spend
$500000.00 setting up and have your licence revoked tomorrow.
The specifications for 400 watts on AM in the BSB would almost give
you similar coverage to that of a 2000 watt facility but NAS lic would
give you about 10-15km in some regions.
Alot of people are not aware also that the LPON 87.6 87.8 & 88.00
frequencies are also due for complete revision in 2003 and holders of
those licences may have them cancelled. Now why would you pay
hundreds of thousands of dollars for one of these when It is a known
fact-(the racing industry is using these) that they look as though
they will be stopped next year. I saw one on AMT for $1 Mil. Why
would you pay that much for something that may not be here and looks
as though it wont next year. You could buy yourself a country lic for
that.
With radio 2 they also cannot guarantee that their licences will not
be cancelled either, neither can the people that they are buying them
off. In BSB broadcasting you do need to renew your licence that is
true but there is no threat of the frequencies being re allocated.
Maybe the ACA will eventually hand the allocation of these to the ABA
and our Off Band will become the Extended band and all the current
holders could have their licences cancelled.
Does anybody know if the ACA does do technical checks on some of these
operating frequencies above 1602.5. I have heard Radio16 NTC on a
wide band reciever before XMAS and it sounded fairly wide to me. Also
how are they policing the correct power output.
Ian MacRae
> Ian, if you have been told you will be transmitting 6khz audio (12khz
> bandwidth) you have either been misinformed or you misunderstood. I
> suggest you have a chat to your technical advisors.
>
> The Runner
Radio Two has been on-air since November last year and, in its
coverage area, sounds like any other station. Sure doesn't sound like
phone quality to me.
Ian MacRae
Kevin T.
> "average" am radio lobs your audio off at 3khz any way.This has
> happened since day one.
There is a very noticeable and very important difference between having
a transmitter that is only putting out 3 kHz's worth of audio, and a
radio that has an audio response that is flat only to 3 kHz.
You need to know what decibels are and how they work to understand this.
A decibel (dB) is a measure of how loud a sound is. dB's are
logarithmic, so for example a 3 dB decrease means the sound is half as
loud as it was at the reference of 0 dB.
The frequency response of audio devices is usually measured to a
tolerance of -3 dB (half as loud) with the 0 dB reference at 1 kHz.
Now, the "3 kHz" audio response figure for "typical" AM radios comes
from the fact that they are SUPPOSED to be -3 dB at 3 kHz, because that
matches the treble pre-emphasis that AM stations use.
When testing receivers, this pre-emphasis of AM stations is usually not
taken into consideration, thus the frequency response of the radio
appears worse than it actually is. And also, most AM radios have a
drop-off of treble response is quite gradual. You *will* hear the audio
all the way up to the 9 kHz limit for regular mono AM stations (and well
past that for the unlimited AM Stereo stations).
So this is the important difference. If you hack off everything above 3
kHz at the transmitter, all of this high frequency audio is missing.
Even though it usually doesn't come through at full force on most AM
radios, it IS there and you WILL miss it when it's gone, especially for
music.
After all, even on an "ordinary" AM radio, you can tell the difference
between when somebody is talking on a telephone, and when they are
talking through the studio microphone, right? That proves you are
hearing at least some degree of audio response above 3 kHz. And if you
can hear the high-pitched intercarrier whistle caused by two stations
being next to each other on the dial (most often heard at night), that
means your radio has response all the way to 9 kHz (or 10 kHz in
North/South America).
p tate
True kevin I was not trying to be mathematical about it as maths is
not my favorite subject.
Nor too many elses!
The difference is there but the average person is ether an fm do or
die numnut or am foebic.
Any way the big thing i wish to convey is in case you all missed
it!!!!!!!!
These licenses are for a SMALL operation and are NOT BIG GUN RADIO
licenses.
The world audio people are on shaky ground. Not some where I'd put my
dollars.
All siad the awareness is welcomed as it raises the average person to
atleast think about these services.
Regards
p tate
m*star
> I had somebody fax me a copy of a licence and it is not really a
> broadcast licence. I think people may be presuming that these are but
> one thing I noted was that they may be recalled without notice and the
> ACA can reallocate these for any purpose they feel.
The technical conditions might be different, but it does allow
commercial station-like capabilities in terms of flexibility of ads and
control etc
You could spend
> $500000.00 setting up and have your licence revoked tomorrow.
> The specifications for 400 watts on AM in the BSB would almost give
> you similar coverage to that of a 2000 watt facility but NAS lic would
> give you about 10-15km in some regions.
Indeed, I'm sure from a top standard 400w TX you could get it about as
good as an average to poor 2Kw TX
> Alot of people are not aware also that the LPON 87.6 87.8 & 88.00
> frequencies are also due for complete revision in 2003 and holders of
> those licences may have them cancelled.
Won't that be good?
Now why would you pay
> hundreds of thousands of dollars for one of these when It is a known
> fact-(the racing industry is using these) that they look as though
> they will be stopped next year. I saw one on AMT for $1 Mil. Why
> would you pay that much for something that may not be here and looks
> as though it wont next year. You could buy yourself a country lic for
> that.
It'd have to be Queenstown or somewhere in the north of WA, I don't
think the last remaining independent regional owners would sell out for
a low price. Many of DMG's stations were bought for a couple of mil
each. Although I do note that RGC bought 4SB/Power FM for 890K.
> With radio 2 they also cannot guarantee that their licences will not
> be cancelled either, neither can the people that they are buying them
> off. In BSB broadcasting you do need to renew your licence that is
> true but there is no threat of the frequencies being re allocated.
Is there a difference between BSB & NAS and what do they exactly stand
for?
> Maybe the ACA will eventually hand the allocation of these to the ABA
> and our Off Band will become the Extended band and all the current
> holders could have their licences cancelled.
> Does anybody know if the ACA does do technical checks on some of these
> operating frequencies above 1602.5.
I doubt it, I'm sure many operators are pushing the limit.
> I have heard Radio16 NTC
What and where is "Radio16"?
m*star
> Radio Two has been on-air since November last year and, in its
> coverage area, sounds like any other station. Sure doesn't sound like
> phone quality to me.
So they are using clever equipment to "cheat" the quality up?
Hot Hits
> Hot Hits wrote:
> > I had somebody fax me a copy of a licence and it is not really a
> > broadcast licence. I think people may be presuming that these are but
> > one thing I noted was that they may be recalled without notice and the
> > ACA can reallocate these for any purpose they feel.
>
> The technical conditions might be different, but it does allow
> commercial station-like capabilities in terms of flexibility of ads and
> control etc
contains the commercial licence-Two different things. You can use a
section 40 to provide a commercial service on microwave or satelite if
you want(remember all those little licences Glenn Wheatley owned years
ago and sold them to broadcom).
>
> You could spend
> > $500000.00 setting up and have your licence revoked tomorrow.
> > The specifications for 400 watts on AM in the BSB would almost give
> > you similar coverage to that of a 2000 watt facility but NAS lic would
> > give you about 10-15km in some regions.
>
> Indeed, I'm sure from a top standard 400w TX you could get it about as
> good as an average to poor 2Kw TX
>
> > Alot of people are not aware also that the LPON 87.6 87.8 & 88.00
> > frequencies are also due for complete revision in 2003 and holders of
> > those licences may have them cancelled.
>
> Won't that be good?
>
> Now why would you pay
> > hundreds of thousands of dollars for one of these when It is a known
> > fact-(the racing industry is using these) that they look as though
> > they will be stopped next year. I saw one on AMT for $1 Mil. Why
> > would you pay that much for something that may not be here and looks
> > as though it wont next year. You could buy yourself a country lic for
> > that.
>
> It'd have to be Queenstown or somewhere in the north of WA, I don't
> think the last remaining independent regional owners would sell out for
> a low price. Many of DMG's stations were bought for a couple of mil
> each. Although I do note that RGC bought 4SB/Power FM for 890K.
>
> > With radio 2 they also cannot guarantee that their licences will not
> > be cancelled either, neither can the people that they are buying them
> > off. In BSB broadcasting you do need to renew your licence that is
> > true but there is no threat of the frequencies being re allocated.
>
> Is there a difference between BSB & NAS and what do they exactly stand
> for?
>
> > Maybe the ACA will eventually hand the allocation of these to the ABA
> > and our Off Band will become the Extended band and all the current
> > holders could have their licences cancelled.
> > Does anybody know if the ACA does do technical checks on some of these
> > operating frequencies above 1602.5.
>
> I doubt it, I'm sure many operators are pushing the limit.
>
> > I have heard Radio16 NTC
>
> What and where is "Radio16"?
>
Bearcave75
"Alot of people are not aware also that the LPON 87.6 87.8 & 88.00
frequencies are also due for complete revision in 2003 and holders of
those licences may have them cancelled. Now why would you pay
hundreds of thousands of dollars for one of these when It is a known
fact-(the racing industry is using these) that they look as though
they will be stopped next year".
2003 used to be the expiry date for LPON tenure, but it has been revised and
extended to December 31st 2013. This happened about one year ago.
LPON, High-power open-narrowcasting and AM narrowband services significantly
add to the diversity of radio station ownership (a point I intend to remind the
ABA and ACA at every licence tenure review) so that not all your media is owned
by some small bunch of guys living on Sydney's nothshore.
For this reason alone, there could not possibly be a better use of these parts
of the radiofrequency spectrum.
From Justin Christie
87.6 Surf FM Frankston VIC
Hot Hits
Does anybody know if World Audio managed to get their prospectus
completely subscribed? According to their website they would be
trading on the ASX on 080402 but I have not seen anything.
If they did get off the ground it would be interesting If they don't I
wonder how many people who were counting on them buying their
frequencies are going to wait to see if they consider having a third
go with another name.