Green Right?
infidel
Is there a GREEN RIGHT?
cheers
I. and F.A.
Petzl
You talking about me?
I support the rivers of sewage being turned inland to be used to grow
harvestable forests Sydney and Melbourne instead of thoughtlessly
wasting
Even during this drought *each* city is still pumping over 1000
megalitres of sewage out to sea a day (even in this drought)
This can easily be converted to drinking quality water and used to
grow a 600 kilometre thick green belt of plantation forests inland
between Sydney and Melbourne (a reasonable distance inland)
This Plantation forest would return for every dollar invested $30 in
15 years time. The first harvest of forest would be in five year
intervals (thinning's)
aside for massive industry and employment this green belt would
drought proof Victoria and NSW each 15 year old tree would pump 100
litres of water into the air ear day removing salination problems.
Increased or more stable rainfall would massively increase all other
Agriculture productivity through out Victoria and NSW again creating
more industry and employment
Petzl
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Stan Pierce
"infidel" <somewhere@no_notnowdear.con> wrote in message
news:SN8H9.89638$g9.2...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
Yes. I am one. I would treat the Australian environment as under attack
and deserving of wartime emergency regulations. We put all the welfare
people to work planting trees in a grid system to begin with, starting from
the edge of towns and working out. Mandatory work under wartime regulation.
All house be fitted with solar heating and power systems. The saving from
payments to overseas oil companies will pay for that.
Thats just for starters. You will not have freedom to fuck this country up
any more.
Stan Pierce.
The Enlightenment
"infidel" <somewhere@no_notnowdear.con> wrote in message
news:SN8H9.89638$g9.2...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
Yes I am one.
Ecologiocal concern are nothing unique to the left and most of the real
advaces in pollution control and environment saving effciency have come out
of right wing parties. Our respect for the natural laws of nature makes it
so.
However sympathies with the current greens are impossible much as I would
like to; they prostrate before the leftwing God of Immigration and Evermore
Refugees.
I despise several aspects of the current greens;
1/ Their promotion of visions of despair ie lack of realism. This produces
a negative world for our children. Their hysterical view of the state of
the environment and our capacity to manage it.
2/ The frequent involvement with the a deep anti-western Marxism eg
Socialist Alliance and Green-Left. The left wants to use environmental
concerns to
promote its stance that the 'western man is morally' bankrupt. They do so
with the usual hysteria.
3/ A certain equivocaion on the issue of national soverignrty; are they
globalists are they internationalists?
Its only that after the failure of the proletariate to revolt that the left
needs to find new proletariates to promote resentments amongst: radical
feminists, non-whites, gays, pornographers and radical environmentalists to
express their rage against whatever.
http://www.propaganda101.com/SocialPsychology/frankfurt.htm
"Of the other top Institute figures, the political perambulations of Herbert
Marcuse are typical. He started as a Communist; became a protege of
philosopher Martin Heidegger even as the latter was joining the Nazi Party;
coming to America, he worked for the World War II Office of Strategic
Services (OSS), and later became the U.S. State Department's top analyst of
Soviet policy during the height of the McCarthy period; in the 1960's, he
turned again, to become the most important guru of the New Left; and he
ended his days helping to found the environmentalist extremist Green Party
in West Germany.
In all this seeming incoherence of shifting positions and contradictory
funding, there is no ideological conflict. The invariant is the desire of
all parties to answer Lukacs' original question: "Who will save us from
Western civilization?" "
Synic
> We know there is a green left!
> Is there a GREEN RIGHT?
Liberals for Forests: http://www.liberalsfor.forests.org.au/
Mark Addinall
> On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 06:59:13 +1000, "infidel"
> <somewhere@no_notnowdear.con> wrote:
>
> >We know there is a green left!
> >Is there a GREEN RIGHT?
> >cheers
> >I. and F.A.
> >
> >
>
> You talking about me?
>
> I support the rivers of sewage being turned inland to be used to grow
> harvestable forests Sydney and Melbourne instead of thoughtlessly
> wasting
I have been pointing this out since about 1968.
Mark Addinall
Petzl
wrote:
>Petzl <Pe...@SpamCop.net> wrote in message news:<3n7quu85i61gi0958...@4ax.com>...
>> On Wed, 4 Dec 2002 06:59:13 +1000, "infidel"
>> <somewhere@no_notnowdear.con> wrote:
>>
>> >We know there is a green left!
>> >Is there a GREEN RIGHT?
>> >cheers
>> >I. and F.A.
>> >
>> >
>>
>> You talking about me?
>>
>> I support the rivers of sewage being turned inland to be used to grow
>> harvestable forests Sydney and Melbourne instead of thoughtlessly
>> wasting
>
>I have been pointing this out since about 1968.
>
>
I have only just started I sent a letter to the federal member
As usual federal members love blaming the State and vice versa meaning
they do not care and look forward to increasing their allowances and
perks and that's the end of it. Please keep pushing for this though
Its important to Australia patriots like you and me are rare
He did have some know a little bit department reply. The transpiration
rates for the Ironbark Eucalyptus would be when the tree goes into
water conservation mode. Eucalyptuses doe this but if they have water
available or after a rain the output into the air is considerably more
Transpiration rate is dependant on species and the amount of water
available to tree idealy this rate needs measure after a month or so
of good rainfall and remeasured during drought to get the range
My figures of a 100 litres of water a day being pumped into air are
for Pinus radiata with adequate water available. Pine can also be
considered for a crop as it has more added value potential than
eucalyptus but is an exotic species (which can create weed problems in
natural reserves, also the pollen blooms produce high phosphorus
Eucalyptus though has advantages of being drought resistant and
adapting to the rainfall provided more rain or water equals higher
transpiration rates
The reply below is interesting though with good points and ideas
*****
I refer to your email letter of 4 November 2002 to the Minister for
the Environment and Heritage, the Hon Dr David Kemp MP, about drought
proofing Australia with recycled wastewater. The Minister has asked me
to thank you for your letter and to reply on his behalf.
Water resource management is primarily the responsibility of State and
territory governments. However, through the National Action Plan for
Salinity and Water Quality and the Natural Heritage Trust the
Commonwealth is making a substantial contribution to this, and to
improved wastewater management and reuse.
Many of the ideas you mention in your letter are being explored by
State and Territory agencies, and by local government. The issues are
very complex and are taking some time to work through to ensure that
solutions are financially viable and ecologically sustainable.
For example, I understand Sydney Water discharges nearly 1.2
gigalitres
(Gl) of water to the ocean each day, or some 430 Gl a year, which is
about 90% of the total water collected. Melbourne Water discharges in
the region of 330 Gl per year to the ocean, from two Sewage Treatment
Plants. These are significant amounts, given that the water used in
the
entire Murray Basin is in the order of 15,000 Gl a year.
Sydney Water is trialling wastewater reuse - for example at Rouse Hill
treated wastewater is piped back to households for toilet flushing and
outdoor purposes such as gardens and washing cars. Altogether, about
two
per cent of Sydney's wastewater is recycled, mainly for processing and
irrigation at Sewage Treatment Plants.
Using recycled water comes with several caveats - it is not drinking
quality water, and to be suitable for irrigation requires it to be
treated to tertiary level and possibly disinfection, which is very
expensive. Most of the wastewater released by Sydney Water to the
ocean
(over 95%) is only treated to primary level. If it were to be used for
irrigation, significant additional treatment, the construction of
major
pipeline and pumping facilities, and land acquisition for this
infrastructure would be required.
Currently, Sydney Water produces about 160,000 tonnes of biosolids a
year from solid organic matter collected during treatment of Sydney's
wastewater. About 90% is recycled, but some is unsuitable for this,
mainly because of industrial contamination. As tertiary treatment
expands, the amount of biosolids is expected to increase. There are
many
concerns associated with biosolids use, and strict guidelines must be
adhered to. It is estimated that the amount of biosolids recycled for
beneficial use will increase by 70% over the next 20 years.
As you have pointed out, methane is often produced from sewage
treatment. Sydney Water uses a proportion of the methane generated to
fuel some of its operations, with an overall cost saving. This process
relies on anaerobic digestion of sewage, which is not needed in all
STPs, and is being phased out in Sydney. In contrast, Melbourne
Water's
Eastern Treatment Plant is being upgraded to use more methane, with
seven new power generators being built to run entirely on sludge gas.
It
is estimated that the upgrade will save 24,000 tonnes of carbon
dioxide,
20,000 megawatt hours, and $13 million each year.
There is currently some usage of sludge for primary production, with
some States already having biosolids guidelines, and the Commonwealth
and States in the process of finalising related National Guidelines
under the National Water Quality Management Strategy. Guidelines are
needed to ensure the concentrations of toxic materials are within safe
limits - these materials can include endocrine disruptors, heavy
metals
and their compounds, and microorganisms.
Using wastewater for large scale irrigation, for example of
plantations, does present significant challenges. Aside from the issue
of adequate treatment, there would also be pumping and maintenance
costs
(in addition to initial construction costs). Further, it would be
essential to ensure that such irrigation did not increase salinity by
raising groundwater levels. A key factor in using wastewater for
irrigation is accounting for lower use in winter.
While it is likely that evapotranspiration from trees in plantations
could contribute to atmospheric moisture levels, any noticeable
effects would probably result only from very large scale plantations.
The amount of water transpired also varies greatly - field
measurements of Eucalyptus sieberi range from three to 123 litres a
day, with age ranging from 14 to 160 years. 14 year old E. sieberi had
a maximum transpiration rate of only 20 l/day. Of course, there would
be many more 14 year old trees per acre than 160 year old trees. It is
also possible that financial returns from plantations may have been
overestimated, and could be closer to five per cent per annum.
While the general principle of reuse will be of great benefit to the
environment, we must ensure there will be no environmental impacts
from reuse. Using treated wastewater for irrigation for example, may
not bewise in an area with a high saline groundwater table. Public
acceptance, of both biosolids and wastewater reuse is also an issue.
Should you wish to pursue the issue, may I suggest you contact the
relevant water authorities. The Sydney Water Internet address is:
http://www.sydneywater.com.au; the Melbourne Water Internet address
is: http://www.melbournewater.com.au.
Sean Kellett
> "infidel" <somewhere@no_notnowdear.con> wrote in message
> news:SN8H9.89638$g9.2...@newsfeeds.bigpond.com...
> > We know there is a green left!
> > Is there a GREEN RIGHT?
> > cheers
> > I. and F.A.
> >
> >
> >
>
> Yes I am one.
LOL, oh dear, stop it already - my sides are hurting! B^)
> Ecologiocal concern are nothing unique to the left and most of the real
> advaces in pollution control and environment saving effciency have come out
> of right wing parties. Our respect for the natural laws of nature makes it
> so.
Please, you respect nothing but your own white skin.
> However sympathies with the current greens are impossible much as I would
> like to; they prostrate before the leftwing God of Immigration and Evermore
> Refugees.
According to their website, they believe in sustainable population growth.
What's your problem with that?
> I despise several aspects of the current greens;
>
> 1/ Their promotion of visions of despair ie lack of realism. This produces
> a negative world for our children. Their hysterical view of the state of
> the environment and our capacity to manage it.
BWAHAHAHAH!!!! *They* promote a vision of despair?? God-damn, all *you*
ever do is bitch and whine because you hate it that Australians love
living in their multicultural society! You mate, are chicken little
and wolf-boy all rolled into one.
You've got no business poking holes at other peoples' "visions".
> 2/ The frequent involvement with the a deep anti-western Marxism eg
> Socialist Alliance and Green-Left. The left wants to use environmental
> concerns to
> promote its stance that the 'western man is morally' bankrupt. They do so
> with the usual hysteria.
You are certainly morally bankrupt.
> 3/ A certain equivocaion on the issue of national soverignrty; are they
> globalists are they internationalists?
????
> Its only that after the failure of the proletariate to revolt that the left
> needs to find new proletariates to promote resentments amongst: radical
> feminists, non-whites, gays, pornographers and radical environmentalists to
> express their rage against whatever.
Oh, poor little benighted, upset because because the greens won't promote
his 'angry white-trash boy' resentments? Oh diddums ...
<snipped blah blah blah>
Sean.
Rohan
Yes there is a green Right. I quit a conservation group in Melbourne
coz its chairwoman was a racist bigot. Was a real shame, coz we were
registered as a society to protect conservation areas not bitch about
Asian immigration. If I wanted that I would have joined the fuckin
Fred Nile party. That was some years back when I was still at high
school.
Rohan